Obi Mikel’s verdict: Arsenal Still Lacking | Defending Rosenior | José (& Clattenburg) v Vini Jnr

12:39Chris McHardy:But John, what's the reaction Now he's just lost 4-1. So how does an interim who's meant to come in and give all the boys a bit of energy, a little bit of a bounce, how does he recover from a 4-1 home defeat to your biggest rivals?

12:55John Obi Mikel:It was a game against the best team in the Premier League. Yes. It was a game against the team that has the best squad in the Premier League. It was a game against the team that everybody has tipped for the title. You can't judge him for that. I can't judge him for that. He needs time. Every manager, when you come in, you need time. You need time to be able to install your philosophy the way you want the team to play. And he hasn't had that. He hasn't had that. So I can't judge him for that. He needs time to be able to say to the players, which is what I like though, his comments after the game, to straight away, let the players know that I'm not here to mess about.

13:35John Obi Mikel:I am here to get results. And I'm here to get you guys from the shithole that you found yourself. the bad habits of the players is what i need to get rid of he's made it pretty clear and that's what you need to see from a manager that who's coming and doesn't want to mess about his problem must have been told about the attitude of this first team but this is what you get from these players nowadays they all feel entitled that's what it is isn't it young players nowadays feel like, oh, if I'm not playing, I'm going to be grumpy all around the fucking place. Get my agent on the phone. I'm going to get my agent on the phone.

14:12John Obi Mikel:He is coming and he's seen that straight away. It doesn't, it didn't take him time to see the attitude of this place. So Spurs, he has a massive, massive job in his, task in his hand to be able to get this, this Spurs team to start winning games. All they have to do is win games. It doesn't matter how they win games. They have to win games. they have to start getting points on the board because right now they're not doing that. And if they're not doing that, they have massive games coming up. If they don't do that, we're talking in the next four or five games, if they don't put points on the board, they will find themselves in a relegation battle.

14:50John Obi Mikel:And for a massive team like Spurs, that's the way they want to find themselves.

14:55Chris McHardy:The stats, John, two wins in their last 18 in the league. They're winless in their last nine. That is relegation.

15:03John Obi Mikel:But again, we can talk about how impressive Arsenal were yesterday.

15:07Chris McHardy:And they were good.

15:08John Obi Mikel:They were good. Take nothing away from them. They were absolutely fantastic. But Spurs were terrible. Spurs were awful. They were. They were terrible. The goals that they conceded. The first goal that Jokre scored. I mean, how much time does he need? The ball came to control. The defender was just waiting and saying, show me what you got. Boom. Top corner. Great finish. Great finish. There was nobody there to close him down. Nobody to close him down.

15:37Chris McHardy:Spurs made it look...

15:38John Obi Mikel:Awful, awful to watch yesterday's Spurs. Defensively all over the place. And that's something he needs to sort out. The defensive part of their game. And then he can build on that going forward. I think they have some fantastic players in terms of creativity. You know, you can look at Simmons. You know, he hasn't had the best season. he's not the only one but you know they need something they need some sort of energy and you can look and say the energy they're lacking the energy Konogalaga is trying to get them going with this energy that he brings but it's not enough they need more than that they need more than that

16:19Chris McHardy:you know

16:20John Obi Mikel:I watched Basuma I watched Sarr this is a place a couple of seasons ago you know Basuma when he was at Brighton we know what he's like I mean, Kaiseido took over from him. He was Kaiseido in Brighton. He was. Breaking up plays, energy that he brought to the game. You don't see any of that right now. No, you don't. He looks a shadow of himself. Yes, the quality is there. Who can bring that quality out of this first place? Sarr, we know he has the legs to bump forward, go forward. He doesn't do that enough. They need some sort of freedom to be able to go out there, express themselves. So take nothing away from Arsenal.

16:59John Obi Mikel:But there is a but. They did play against one of the second worst teams in the Premier League. That's what Spurs are. Wolves, the worst Spurs right now are the second worst team in the Premier League. Because I think Burnley are playing some really good football.

17:12Chris McHardy:Well, you would say that. They've got to draw a stamp. Don't talk up Burnley as if they're the new Barcelona. But I take the point on all of that. I guess the million dollar question. With their form, two wins in 18, none in their last nine. They've got Fulham away next. Crystal Palace at home upcoming as well do Spurs. They are in a relegation battle.

17:31John Obi Mikel:Yeah.

17:32Chris McHardy:Do they go down? Does Igor Tudor have enough about him? And again, to your point, you can't judge him off of one game. No, no, no.

17:41John Obi Mikel:Although I think it's… No, we all can't judge him with that game against Arsenal because, yes, again, I say it, Arsenal right now, although City are coming back, but I think Arsenal, you know, for the past, from the season, the whole season, They've been the best team. Consistent. They've been the best team. They've conceded probably, I think, the last goals. They've been consistent. They've been the best team. So I can't judge him on that. And Arsenal had to win that game yesterday. Again, it's a derby. They had to win that game. And knowing that they've sort of conceded the league title to City.

18:14John Obi Mikel:So I think it's both teams now. City have 11 games left, right?

18:19Chris McHardy:City have got...

18:20John Obi Mikel:11 games, I think. Arsenal has 10 games left.

18:22Chris McHardy:So they've got a game in hand over them, yeah. Five points to the gap.

18:24John Obi Mikel:Five points a gap. I think if City go on now to win all 11 games.

18:31Chris McHardy:Both teams have the title in their hands because they play each other April 18th.

18:35John Obi Mikel:Exactly.

18:36Chris McHardy:So you're saying City for you still win it. They're the favourites. And we've not even got an answer about whether Spurs go down. Let's go back there. Do Spurs go down?

18:46John Obi Mikel:I don't think Spurs go down. I think Hugo Tudor will find a way of getting them out of this. I think so. I think so. I think they also miss Romeo, I think who's been also reckless in terms of the way he's been playing lately. You know, comments that he's been making about the club, about the hierarchy. It looks to me like somebody doesn't want to be there, Romeo. He looks like he wants out. He wants to go. He's throwing in the towel. He's like, I want to get the fuck out of this place. Because you can't be making comments like that. The captain of the football club. You are the captain. I mean, some of the comments he makes is absolutely outrageous.

19:22Chris McHardy:And then he gets sent off. Then he's reckless himself. Exactly. So it's like, hold on a second, focus on your own game. And let the board deal with it.

19:29John Obi Mikel:Which he does have the right to talk about the board because they've been absolutely shit as well. But focus on your own game and make sure you do your job on the pitch. Which he has failed to do that this season. If he comes back, and I think if they be able to get a couple of plays back from injury, I think they do have a chance of staying up. They have a good team. They have good players. Sometimes, good playing a good player is not enough. Having the quality, the potential is not enough.

20:02Chris McHardy:You got to deliver.

20:03John Obi Mikel:You have to deliver. It's how much do you want it? How much do I want to succeed? How much do I want to get better?

20:11Chris McHardy:Yes, the desire.

20:11John Obi Mikel:What is the mentality? What is your desire of getting better as a player? Improving day in, day out. Being a good player is not enough. Being a quality player is not enough. There's so many good quality players all around the Premier League. But the top, top ones have the mentality of getting better. Spurs don't. And winning. And Spurs don't have that. No, they don't.

20:33Chris McHardy:So, you still believe they stay up? I believe they stay up. Okay. So, the other question then. Off the back of Arsenal's win, Mikul Ortega gets a turning point. He feels that they're ready for this running. Do Arsenal, I know what you're going to say here, But do Arsenal, is it the turning point? Do Arsenal have enough to keep City at bay?

20:59John Obi Mikel:Well, I think they have the best team still. But are they playing well enough? No. Lately, they haven't played well enough. I think this is three wins in eight. I think it is. Sometimes when you rely so much on said pieces, this is what happens. When you build a club, a team, and you spent a billion building a team. And you're telling me you rely so much on set pieces, corner kicks, to score goals, to win games. This is what happens. Because this is the Premier League. You will get found out pretty, pretty quickly. And people will try to stop you from that. And we can see that now. Teams are leaving two, three up when it comes to corner kicks.

21:45John Obi Mikel:And what do they do? They have to go back. This is the Premier League. people will find you out straight away. And that's what's happened. They have been rigid the way they play. Sometimes when I watch them, they're so rigid. All in the game yesterday that I see that as a little bit of creativity. They've been so rigid. They depend solely on set pieces, scoring goals. Manchester City, in open play, have scored more goals than Arsenal. There's more freedom to City. There's more freedom to City. Scoring goals, creating chances. Arsenal hasn't done that enough. And at some point during the season, you get to find out.

22:22John Obi Mikel:And that's what's happened. So for me, I still believe they're a favorite. But again, it comes down to the question. During the crunch time of the season, when it matters most, when you've been tipped as the favorite all season to go on and win the title, are you going to do it? Can they do it? Can this Arsenal side go on and win it? I believe that the situation they find themselves right now, we've said it over the season, it's theirs to lose. It's Arsenal's to lose.

22:57Chris McHardy:It's the best chance they've had.

22:58John Obi Mikel:It's the best chance they have to go on and win this title. The question is the mentality. Do they have the mentality that they need to go on and win this title? Because you can be as as great as you want. You can be as fantastic as you want. It's how much you want. The mentality has to be there. The mentality of changing and going, you know what? We've been coming second for the past three, four, five seasons. We want to go one better. How do we go one better? How do we change that mentality? Is our mentality as weak as people talk about? Or we want to show everybody that we have a strong mentality?

23:41John Obi Mikel:Because when I look at them, I still believe that the mentality of this Arsenal side is very, very weak. Still questionable. They're still questionable.

23:50Chris McHardy:So even a result...

23:50John Obi Mikel:They are great players. Yeah. Make no mistake about that. They're fantastic players. Make no mistake about that. But sometimes that is not all you need. You need the mental side of the game. And that's what separates Manchester City and Arsenal.

24:04Chris McHardy:But does a win like that, having been yourself down this title road before, does a win like that and the manner of the victory yesterday...

24:12John Obi Mikel:Again, they're playing against the worst team in the Premier League. But still a big rival. It's still a big rival. But they played against one of the worst team in the Premier League. Yes, it can help them. Yes, it can change the mood of the team. But I don't believe that... I still don't believe... There's this question mark about the mentality of this Arsenal team. Because when you look at that Wolves game, that is what we talk about mental. Yeah. And when I watched Rodri last two seasons or three seasons ago, talk about the mentality of this Arsenal side, saying they come to the Etihad. And I watched them and I looked at the players before the kickoff of the game and I could see the mental side of these players.

24:55John Obi Mikel:It was weak. You can see. They have weak mentality. You can smell it. You can smell it. and does the massive job that Mikel Ateta has to do in these last 10 games, work on the mental side of this place?

25:11Chris McHardy:How do you do that? You have to.

25:13John Obi Mikel:You have to. Is that through words? Some sort of way. Some sort of way you have to talk to the players. You have to have meetings. You have to make sure you try to make them understand what it will mean for them to be Premier League champions. they haven't won the Premier League for the past what? 22, 23 years.

25:33Chris McHardy:2004.

25:34John Obi Mikel:What it will mean for them, what it will mean for the fans, for the club, for the organization. Demba's players. You want to win titles and you want to win the big ones. And this is the biggest in the Premier League. You want to win the Premier League. How can Arsenal go on to win that? Because everybody is questioning even if now that they still find themselves in a good position, We still question the mental side of those players. We still question, can they be able to go one better? So the difference between Arsenal and City is that City, when you watch now Pep Guardiola, it's all about the mind games, isn't it?

26:14John Obi Mikel:It's the mind games. For the past two, three, four weeks, every time he comes, press conferences, the one thing he talks about, listen to Pep, oh, there's still 12, 11 games left. it's eternity there's so many games left so much is going to happen he is sending a message to Arsenal because he knows that the history of the club the history of the club is that they bottle it come the end of the season they find a way of fucking it up so he finds a way of playing that mind game he's become the master of it saying, oh, 12 games, 11 games. It's an eternity. I love, I love. Yes, it is in the Premier League.

27:01John Obi Mikel:Yes, it is. He's right about that. But he keeps banging on that. It's an eternity. A lot can happen. He keeps saying that. It's the finish line. We know how to finish better than you. You guys always find a way of fucking it up. You're not good at finishing. We can finish. Well, we can finish strong because we know how to do it. We've been there. We've done it. looking at this city side from the players, the managers, the manager, the board, the staff, the kitchen staff, the laundry guy, they know how to win titles. They've been there. They've done it. So when I saw them celebrating the way they did against Newcastle, was it a little bit over the top?

27:43John Obi Mikel:No. They've earned the right to celebrate that way.

27:46Chris McHardy:They knew it was a big win. They knew it was a big win. Saturday night, playing before Arsenal, it was a big result.

27:51John Obi Mikel:sending a message to the rest of the Premier League and especially to Arsenal. We are here. We are not giving up. If you want to win this title for the first time in 22 years, you have to come to us. You have to beat us. We're not going to give it to you. That was that celebration. That was the mind game. We're not going to give it to you. It's not going to be easy for you. We are here. We're not going to go away. That was a celebration that I saw from the Man City side, from Pep Guardiola, the players, celebrating, howling, going to the fans, celebrating, screaming, showering, giving each other a hug.

28:27John Obi Mikel:Because they've been there. They've done it. They know what it feels like to be able to be champions. So that is the mind game that is going on. And Pep is playing it so well, sending that message to Arsenal saying, you have to go through us. We are the team that you need to beat to be champions. And we're not going to make it easy for you. We're not going away. Since we win the league.

28:54John Obi Mikel:We also have to put in consideration that this is a city side that's not quite as dominant like they used to be. They're not. Not at all. There's still some sort of question marks with this city side. Defensively, you know, they will give you opportunities. They will give you chances to score goals.

29:14Chris McHardy:Yeah, they will.

29:15John Obi Mikel:Yes, they will score goals, but they will give you opportunity to score goals. city side, they will control the game. They will dictate the game. They will give you one or three chances, but that's it. They will go two, three, four, they will kill the game. Some games you're thinking in the past few years, we're thinking, they had no right in winning that game. How the fuck did they win? Did they get all three points? How did they come away with all three points? It was the mentality that they had. It was the know-how that they had in that team. When that engine starts, come towards the end of the season, the last 10, 15 games, it never stops.

29:50John Obi Mikel:Traditionally. Does this City side now have that in them? I don't know. This question marks about that. Yeah. That is my only concern with City. But I still think, saying all that, I still think they've now found themselves in a very, very good position because they have the manager that you can't write off. And it's in their hands. They have the players that you can't write off. And it just seems to me that slowly but surely, they're starting to find that rhythm. They're starting to find the city way. And of course, the main man is back. Slowly but surely, you can see the city way, Rodri. Again, people talk about it.

30:28John Obi Mikel:It's not the long passes. It's the little ones that he plays in between the lines. It's the rhythm that they have. And the control. It's the control that he has. Yes, his first two, three games, he was still trying to find his fitness. But slowly but surely now, you can see he's getting back to his fitness. and if he can be able to do that in the next two, three, four games, there will be a force to reckon. So for me, it's 50-50. But if you ask me with the history that both teams have, of course, I have to go with City because Arsenal always find a way of fucking it up. They always find a way of bottling it.

31:04John Obi Mikel:And I still believe that with the mentality that they have, unless they change that mentality, they will still bottle it.

31:09Chris McHardy:Right. So Spurs to stay up. City, I think, to win the league from John. Right, I'm conscious we haven't got yet to Chelsea. You and I haven't had a good job of Chelsea, you know why, John? Draw the weekend, disappointingly. 1-0 up, dominating the football match, sending off of Wesley Vofana changes the game. Second successive game, or league game rather, in which Stamford Bridge, they drop points. And when you consider as well, before that, West Ham were 2-0 up, and it was a last minute winner then. At the bridge, Liam Resignor's Chelsea struggling a little bit to put games away? What have you made of it?

31:50John Obi Mikel:Not convincing. No. Not convincing lately, honestly.

31:57John Obi Mikel:It's a shit show what's going on at the football club. There's no question about that. It's a shit show. We find ourselves now fourth in the table, right? 45 points with Liverpool, Manchester United.

32:08Chris McHardy:United have got to give it.

32:09John Obi Mikel:If United win today, today, right? They go above us. Yeah. Manchester United going above Chelsea the way they started the season it's it's just awful it's just incredible incredibly awful to see I just don't see any consistency with our team I don't see us you know we had Enzo Moresca I've said it I think it was a massive mistake to sack him I think so I still believe that I still stand by that Yes, there was a little bit of mistake But again, we didn't know The in and out of what happened Just slowly but surely Now we're starting to hear stories of what happened That sometimes his hands were tight In terms of selection, in terms of plays He could play, how many minutes players can play And all that With all this return to whatever Fucking department they have at the club Telling the manager how much a player can play I mean, it's ridiculous Yeah a manager that won us the club world cup won us the conference league a manager that I see that we have some sort of identity the way we played we had a way forward we were the best team in terms of playing out from the back playing against big teams big teams winning against big teams competing against big teams that's what we did yeah so for me for the club to sack him is just absolutely crazy.

33:42John Obi Mikel:And now, like I said, we've gone five, we took a step forward and we've gone five steps backwards. Yes, Liam is coming and he's won games. But I just don't see, there's something that is missing. There is absolutely something that is missed. Something is not quite right. Cole Palmer is not really happy. He has to struggle with injuries, but he's back playing. But he's not quite to his best. there's stories about him linking him to Manchester United.

34:09Chris McHardy:Yeah. They're not going away either. They're not going away.

34:13John Obi Mikel:There's no smoke without fire, mate. So for me, I just think the team is just... Yes, start of the season, I said we need one or two players or three players to compete to win in the league. No. Now when I look at it, I think we need the whole fucking 11 to win. Come on. I genuinely think so. Caicedo Caicedo yes Pedro Neto Pedro Neto yes Cucurella

34:45John Obi Mikel:Cucurella yes but is is Cucurella a top top world class player yes come on John yes he is yes he is come on Rich James yes on his day on his day if his feet centre backs issue oh no no no no no no please don't don't talk to me about the question of centre backs don't even go there don't go there and strike The center backs that we have in the team, all of them, except Levi Colwell. That's it. Top, top, top. That can become, he's not top yet. He can become top. There's potentials there. You can see. Chaloba, it's okay. But the rest. Fofana, struggle with injuries. Not been back to his best. You need to play.

35:27John Obi Mikel:Again, I don't know how we got two stupid yellow cards. Change the game. Change the game for us. The game we should have won.

35:35Chris McHardy:ill-discipline, John.

35:36John Obi Mikel:Again, it comes down to the discipline that we've talked about in this team, which was there during Enzo Moriske's reign. And now, again, we can see the discipline issues. And that's something that the clubs need to sort out. But again... Is that youth?

35:48Chris McHardy:What's that, John?

35:49John Obi Mikel:Is that lack of weakness? It's youth. It's inexperience that we have. Again, when you have experienced players in the team, so much more can be better when you have experienced players in the team. I know it's very, very unfair to keep going back to our days. Our days, our days. I don't want to be going back to it. Because it's history. But what we won, what we did for the club, it's not history. It's in the DNA of the football club. I know when we play, when a player gets a yellow card, the senior player comes to your ears and says, mate, be fucking careful. You've just got a yellow card.

36:28Chris McHardy:Yeah, because then you're worried about weight.

36:29John Obi Mikel:Exactly.

36:30Chris McHardy:It's not necessarily the manager. Exactly. It's doing GT and B.

36:33John Obi Mikel:Because we want to win the title. When we're competing to win the title. I've been there when managers, when players go to the manager and say, Oi, get him off. Because he's just received a yellow card. We don't want to suffer. We don't want to go down to 10 men. The manager takes you off. Because you don't want to put the team in that situation. Leaders, that's what leaders do. That's what captains do. That's what experience brings. This team don't have that. Who's going to go to the manager right now and say, get him off? Because he's been yellow carded. You talk about leaders. You talk about a manager that has the full power.

37:14John Obi Mikel:You talk about the Manchester City game against Newcastle. Ruben Diaz got a yellow card. What did Pep do? Bromov. Bromov! Kuzinov came on, didn't he? Kuzinov coming. Yeah. That's what you call leader. That's what you talk about. When you talk about a top, top manager that can make decisions. Ruben Diaz is the top, top player. One of the senior players. Second vice captain of the club. What did he do? No. You go to 72 minutes, you're off. I want to win. The club is bigger than you. It's about the club. It's about the organization. You're off. You're not going to put us in a situation where we're going to finish this game with 10 men.

37:57John Obi Mikel:I don't care who you are. you off so that's what i want to see there is no leadership from the manager to the place everything is just there's something missing and we don't have that yet so it comes down again when i talk about it the leadership starts from the top from the top if you have an owner that makes decisions if you have an owner that don't both of them don't clash and fight within each other all the fucking time one of them want to buy the order out the other one of the instability at the top.

38:30Chris McHardy:That it creates.

38:30John Obi Mikel:It affects the place. It affects the team.

38:35Chris McHardy:I've got to ask John, how many failed assignments did you make?

38:39John Obi Mikel:Oh.

38:41Chris McHardy:We don't know the player. Liam didn't want to throw anyone under the bus.

38:44John Obi Mikel:But he did.

38:45Chris McHardy:But he kind of did, didn't he? I mean, the rhetoric, we've seen the memes, the David Brent comparisons.

38:54John Obi Mikel:That's not fair though. I have to say that's not fair. Is it not? It's not fair to a manager to make memes of her manager. It doesn't matter who he is, what he looks like. Again, we'll touch on that later. What a person looks like, how a person dresses. It's not your fucking business, mate.

39:12Chris McHardy:What you're saying about in terms of the stuff that's been doing the rounds on Liam.

39:16John Obi Mikel:On Liam, yeah. Yeah. So for me, that part, I will never condone any of that. So if he's saying, again, it comes down to inexperience what he said. His post-match interview saying, oh, there's a player that we assigned to mark a player or to defend. No. That's experience. The manager shouldn't come out and say that. If you want to say that, go full on and say the whole thing. Yeah, don't go half-half. Call out whoever you want to call out. Don't go half-half. Say it. Because you started it. Finish it. He did. He offered up. It's a bit like Enzo Mareska when he said, oh yeah, this has been my 24 hours, it was 24 hours, but, and the press say, can you elaborate?

40:01John Obi Mikel:No, I don't wanna fucking elaborate. Yeah, it's true. You're starting it. When you want your spring break to feel like... And your kid's pool day to feel like... And your hotel bed to feel like... Ooh, and room service to feel like... Because at Hilton, hospitality feels like

40:24Chris McHardy:Your cabana's ready. Would you like fresh towels?

40:26John Obi Mikel:It matters where you stay. Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton, for this day. You know you're going to get a question. Exactly. If you have the balls to come out and say, have the balls to fucking finish it. Say it. So he's come out and say, I don't want to throw the team under the bus. The player under the bus. But you just fucking did. someone did fail in the same

40:52Chris McHardy:because of course someone did fail in the same

40:54John Obi Mikel:listen that happens set pieces and that's why during our time at the club again I go back I hate when teams do zonal marking your man marking oh yeah yeah man marking mate because when he fucks up you got accountability it's your fucking responsibility yeah I'm no courage again it was back then it was about accountability it was about responsibility it was about you owning your own shit. Being responsible of yourself, of your mistake. Yes, it's a team game. But when you've been assigned to do a job, you fucking do it. If it's your man, you do it. I mean, during corners, you see us, everybody will be allowed because I don't want to see my man get harder on me.

41:39John Obi Mikel:No! Is he going to have a first step on me? I need to be ready. But when you're zonal, you're looking and thinking, oh, no, no, he's your man. Oh, he's my man. It creates doubt. It creates chaos. And that's why we never liked it. JT never liked it. If a manager comes in and says, oh, let's do Zona, we do it for one or two games, and when we consider it goes like, I need to fucking speak to him. We need to change it.

42:04Chris McHardy:He wanted to go back to man.

42:06John Obi Mikel:Back to man.

42:06Chris McHardy:Because of that. That's interesting.

42:08John Obi Mikel:What we do, we have one man in front pose and the other person behind. So either we have Frank Lampard, who's usually on the first pose, and DJ Drogba behind him, who can, if he comes,

42:19Chris McHardy:gets a flyer.

42:20John Obi Mikel:Yeah, if he goes past Frank, Didier can then clear it. But the rest, month more. Because it's your job. You have to do it. So for Liam to come out and say, oh, I don't want to throw the player under the bus. But you just did. But again, it's leadership. It's experience. It's an inexperienced manager. He will learn from that. And again, this will create some sort of, you know, negativity around the training ground, around the place. Is he going to have a meeting with the player, with the group and say, you know what? When I assign you to do something, you do it. But again, that's why I like man-to-man when it comes to set pieces.

42:56Chris McHardy:Right. I guess it's a nice launch pad for this next conversation. It's been quite a week in football. You talked there about throwing a player under the bus. I've got to ask the question, John. A lot of people on our various feeds have wanted your take on what has transpired this past week in the UEFA Champions League. I'm heading over. Of course I am to the Portuguese capital, Benfica, against Real Madrid. The spectre of racism has reared its ugly head again. I think we can safely park that and say you can never condone racism. Of course you cannot. There is a problem, but there's a societal problem.

43:30Chris McHardy:It's not just a problem in football. What I have to ask you about, though, is your former manager, Jose Mourinho. We've met him. You obviously know him far better than I do, But I was staggered at what was coming out of his mouth in the aftermath of that. Almost implying, John, that Vinicius had brought on the alleged abuse himself because of his celebration. Can I get your thoughts?

43:55John Obi Mikel:Yeah, listen, I think the ugly scenes that we've seen in the past couple of weeks. Yes, Vinicius is junior, but again, we come back to the Premier League where players last week or two weeks. This weekend. has been abused. Two or three, four players have been abused. Hannibal, Wesley Fofana. Hannibal, Wesley Fofana and the rest of them. So, it's a massive problem. It's a huge problem. It's a societal problem like you've said. There is no place for racism. There is no place for discrimination. There is no place for that. And it's a shame to see that the world that we live in right now racism, discrimination is just everywhere.

44:42John Obi Mikel:It is. People think they can wake up in the morning and just go around their fucking business, go around the street, insult people, and do whatever they want. And they think it's a norm. Yeah, they're hiding their mind free of speech. Exactly. They think it's a fucking norm right now to get away with it. It's not. It's never been. And it shouldn't be. there's so many forces around the world right now trying to divide people who you worship what you look like shouldn't come to any question people are allowed to be who they are who you worship what you look like the color of your skin should not matter at all it's 20 26 It should not matter at all.

45:29John Obi Mikel:But that's the society we live in right now. Where the people that we vote in, the people that rule the fucking world, make racism comments and think it's okay to get away with it. And think it's fine. And it's becoming a norm that they can just get away with it. They can just brush it off our shoulder. Oh, it's okay. It's not. Shouldn't be. And we talk about the one thing that brings everybody together. The one thing that unites us. Sports. The one thing that makes people come together. Chinese, Arab, African, whoever, European, whoever you are. Football brings everybody together. As always been.

46:17John Obi Mikel:And this is the one thing that unites us. And this is the one thing that should, in this moment in time, with the hate that is going on around the world with the racism the discrimination football is the one thing that should always unite us so when i saw what i see with vinicius junior it's appalling it's a shame that in in 2026 we're talking about here It still happens. People still get racially abused. And for a player to get racially abused for celebrating the way he did,

46:58John Obi Mikel:it's crazy to hear people, other people saying, oh, well, he shouldn't celebrate the way he did. Are you telling me right now that soon there's probably going to be a playbook of how black players should celebrate? Is that what you're telling me? Yeah. There should be a rule for that? Does he justify you to go into your deepest side and bring out a racism card and say, and call him whatever you call him because he celebrated the way you don't like a player to a player? And look at the celebration. There was absolutely nothing wrong with it. All he did was go to the corner flank and have a little dance.

47:34There's nothing wrong with that.

47:35John Obi Mikel:There's nothing wrong with that. A player should celebrate the way he wants. As long as he doesn't go to the fans and say, oh, F you or whatever it is. Fuck you, whatever. A player has the right to celebrate as he wants. And it's crazy that my former manager, that I have so much respect for, huge respect for, and I've said it so many times, I've come on this podcast, I don't defend, it's not defend, because I know who he is. When you defend somebody, it's guilty. I know who he is. Joseph Mourinho is nowhere near nowhere near the word racism nowhere near as a person take away football as a person as a father that I know there is no way you can associate Joseph Mourinho with racism but when you are in charge of an organization as Benfica.

48:41John Obi Mikel:And such thing happened. By the way, still under investigation.

48:45Chris McHardy:Yeah, it's important to point that out. But,

48:48John Obi Mikel:yes, they're still under investigation, but for a player to cover his mouth and go like this. Correct.

48:53Chris McHardy:You know.

48:53John Obi Mikel:You know, something bad has been said. Correct. If you know, you're going to say, why do you have to do that? Why do you have to do that as a player? Correct. So we can't see, the lip reader can't read what you've said to a player. Yes. So for me, still on investigation, but when you do that, when you do that before you say something, it just shows that you're not innocent. Even when Kylian Mbappe was trying to say, oh yeah, he did say, I watched the kid, he never once said, oh no, no, no, I didn't say that. If you know you haven't said something like that, you can protest, you can justify yourself.

49:29John Obi Mikel:You can argue. He never argued. No, he didn't. Never did.

49:33Chris McHardy:He turned away. He turned away and walked off. As Vinicius ran to the referee, he turned away and he did.

49:39John Obi Mikel:I mean, again, we're making assumptions here.

49:42Chris McHardy:But it did look guilty.

49:43John Obi Mikel:It did look guilty.

49:48John Obi Mikel:So, Mourinho should have, yes, the adrenaline of the game, the emotions of the game. We understand. We've all been there. And when you've come off a game against, also against this old team, Real Madrid, he lost the game. You are now a coach of Benfica. And everybody, you're not coming out to speak for Benfica. You're not coming out to speak for Jose Mourinho. You're coming out to represent because you are the coach of a Portuguese club.

50:24Chris McHardy:So you're representing a country.

50:25John Obi Mikel:You're representing a country. It's beyond what just happened. It's beyond the game that just happened. It was a societal thing. you should have come out and say you know what what i expected to hear from my old boss from my gaffer yes it's under investigation but there is no place for racism there is no place for such thing but let's wait until it's concluded there is no place for that so for him to come out and say oh yeah vinicius jr shouldn't celebrate the way he did i absolutely know that was a clumsy clumsy comment from Jose Mourinho. And he will be the first. He knows. He will be the first to know I have fucked up here.

51:10John Obi Mikel:This is a clumsy statement. He's a smart, smart guy. Very smart guy. He knows.

51:17Chris McHardy:Why does he not apologize then?

51:19John Obi Mikel:I don't know the reason why he hasn't apologized, but I expect him to come out at some point and make a statement and say, you know what? Everybody, there's nobody who's played with Jose Mourinho that has a bad word to say about him. Especially when it comes to racism. Especially. Zero. Absolutely zero. I know him. I know him. I'm still in contact. I know the guy. So there is no place for that. He is the first. He will be the first to say, I fucked up. He was, you know, it was after the game. There was emotions running high. But he can't justify. You know, I didn't think about my statement. It doesn't justify what he said, but I didn't think about what I was going to say.

51:56John Obi Mikel:He's an experienced manager. He knows. He's a smart guy. He knows what he should have said. And for me, I just think what the statement that he made is a massive, massive, huge mistake. It's a clumsy, clumsy statement. And he's the first to put his heart up and say, you know what? I've made a massive, massive mistake here and I need to apologize. I'm expecting him maybe now or maybe later when the investigation is completed. I'm expecting him to come out and make a statement, which I believe he would. Because the man that I know, the Jose Mourinho that I know, is nowhere near related to anything to do with racism.

52:30John Obi Mikel:But again, it comes down to us. Are the authorities doing enough to kick out racism in football? I don't think so. A lot more can be done. A lot more can be done. And we're not doing enough. You know, we started the whole fucking kneel down before the game. What the fuck is that? That's not enough. We did it for a couple of seasons. Where's it gone? On to the next thing. On to the next fucking thing. the original structure of how to kick out racism in the game the people in charge the effort the people that run the fucking organization they're not doing enough i've been to fifa congresses where they're trying to do enough but it's still it's still not enough enough can be done gianny infantino is doing is doing well uh severin ufa is they're doing well they're trying to do well, but it's not enough.

53:25John Obi Mikel:We have to fight it. Does it have to come down to when a player is found guilty? Whoever, a player, manager, staff is found guilty of racism, should be kicked out of the game.

53:38Chris McHardy:Lifetime ban.

53:38John Obi Mikel:Lifetime ban. I'll ask you a question. If somebody is found guilty in society, you can sue somebody for racism. And when he goes to a court and everything, if he's found guilty, what happens? He goes to jail, right? Prison sentence. Is he found guilty? Why do footballers have to get away with it? Why do people in sport have to get away with it? That's true. I think it's what you're saying. It's the same thing. So, when you make a strong statement, when you have a stand on it, you have to follow through. If a player, a staff, whoever is found guilty of making a racial statement, discrimination.

54:20John Obi Mikel:done done end of make that stick if you were again still investigation if what happened happened and that player Benfica player got banned two three days later FIFA you have a come by said you know what found you guilty that's it you done there is no place for you in football there's no place for you in sports do you think what happened during the weekend would have happened it's a deterrent it would act as a deterrent but of course i mean we're getting to different realms

54:55Chris McHardy:on this pod probably don't have enough time but then we're getting to the realms john of talking about what more can social media companies do what responsibility do they play in actually identifying individuals who think they can send derogatory yeah dms to our football players in the case of wesley fufana disgusting that was sent through to him so this is to your point football authorities need to do more. But you said it right in the very beginning. If our leaders in government are spreading hate and, you know, essentially they're creating these chasms in society, then what hope do the football authorities have in stamping it out?

55:37Chris McHardy:But I was, like you, disappointed in Jose. I hope an apology somewhere down the line is coming because it's Jose Mourinho. It's Jose Mourinho, yeah. He's one of the greatest football managers of all time. And I listened to you, I've never worked for him. If you tell me he's not gonna erase his bone in his body, I believe that. But that is a massive, massive poor judgment, a poor thing to do. And he needs ultimately to come out and an apology. Listen, listen. Is it good enough?

56:08John Obi Mikel:Yeah, Jose is who he is. And yeah, he's my boss. He's, you know, he's my coach, he's my gaffer. But as we've always done in this podcast is say what is right. Hold people accountable. Say what is right. And I will always do that. He knows. Me saying this about Jose, he knows. He watches. He listens. He will know that I know him. And I'm sure deep down inside, he knows he's fucked up. He knows he's made a mistake. A poor judgment of statement, like you've just said. But I'm hoping at some point when the investigation is finished, I'm hoping and I believe that the man that I know will come out and issue an apology.

56:56Chris McHardy:And I'm hoping he'll do that. And Johnny wasn't the only one. A man that, of course, you've had your battles with, Sir Mark Clattenburg. He was working for a well-known TV broadcaster. He himself intimated that Vinny didn't help the situation, that he didn't help the referee. He has subsequently apologized after there was a huge outcry of outrage of the comments. I mean, yeah, so Jose's not alone.

57:23John Obi Mikel:You know, that's, I don't know how to say it. They say, is it squeak like a dog, walk like a dog? It's a dog or whatever it is.

57:31Chris McHardy:I've never heard it, but I like it. I'll run with it, Jose.

57:35John Obi Mikel:I probably didn't say it right, but that's all I have to say about that. Okay. No comment.

57:40Chris McHardy:Oh, yeah.

57:41John Obi Mikel:No comment.

57:41Chris McHardy:I think we can deduce exactly what you mean from it.

57:43John Obi Mikel:Yeah. Exactly. So that's all I can say about him. Yeah, fair. Because there is a history. There is a history there. And for somebody to come out again, a match official, ex-match official, just shows you if he was still in charge of games.

58:06Chris McHardy:Yeah, that's interesting.

58:07John Obi Mikel:What his times would have been. Yeah. He's just told us what his times would have been.

58:13Chris McHardy:It didn't help the referee

58:15John Obi Mikel:It didn't help the situation Instead of him Trying to A referee to try to Listen to the play And try to find out Exactly the reason why I'm not saying When a player comes out Straight away And says blah blah blah You have to listen But For him to say that Straight away I just told you His mentality It gives you better An insight Exactly of where What he would have done If he was still Officiating Right And that's really all I can say about that. And there's just so many things. You know, it's crazy that in the past few weeks, a lot has been said about, you know, it's just dominating headlines.

58:59You know, you have another owner of a huge football club

59:04John Obi Mikel:as Manchester United, you know, Radcliffe, again, coming out and making a statement that he's made. He's come out and apologized.

59:13Chris McHardy:Immigrants are colonizing the UK.

59:15John Obi Mikel:Exactly. But then to come out and make a statement like that is just absolutely shameful to the football club. Where you have a manager, you've just appointed a manager, who's trying to win football matches. Who's trying to bring the football club to where it should belong, where it belongs. Has won four of his five games. Unbeaten in five. Unbeaten in five. trying to stabilize the football club, trying to bring the old Manchester United beliefs among the fans, bring people together, bring the fans back to the stadium to watch support the football club. The football club that has been built for so many years through players from all over the world that has migrated to England legally, worked legally, played for Manchester United, won trophies, built the club, that today you own 25%, 30 % off.

1:00:14John Obi Mikel:And you've come out and you've made such a crazy, absolutely shameful statement. Shame on him. Shame on him. For a club as huge as Manchester United. That has one of the biggest, in terms of diversity, fans. Go to Asia. Go to Africa. All around the world, Manchester United has one of the biggest fan base. And you're benefiting from that. Filling up your pockets. Week in, week out. Selling out tickets. And you come out and you make such a... How does he look his fans in the eyes? How does he go back to that stadium? I've been to Manchester United. I've seen the fans from India, from Africa. I know a lot of African people who buy season tickets, spend so much money.

1:01:05John Obi Mikel:Manchester United. Don't get me wrong. It doesn't matter where you're from. It doesn't matter where you live. If somebody migrates to my country, Nigeria, illegally, I have a problem with it. You should come to my country legally. Legally. Work legally. Leave legally. But you should be allowed to do that.

1:01:27Chris McHardy:But you should be allowed to do that. Yeah. And it's not lost on me, by the way. Sir Jim actually resides in Monte Carlo as well, by the way.

1:01:34John Obi Mikel:He lives in Monte Carlo. He lives in Monte Carlo. Between Monte Carlo and the UK. Okay, so he's migrated to Monte Carlo. And nobody complains about that, right?

1:01:43Chris McHardy:You put that very eloquently though, John. You really have because there's a responsibility. There's a responsibility to us all to act in a respectful manner to each and every one. Certainly when you're an owner of an institution.

1:01:59John Obi Mikel:Institution as big as Manchester United, that is my problem. There's an extra responsibility. There is an extra responsibility. I believe if Alex Ferguson was still there at that football club.

1:02:10Chris McHardy:He's a labor man through and through. Yeah, that wouldn't have happened.

1:02:13John Obi Mikel:I just think values of life should always, decency, respect, should always be what matters in this world. You know, decency, respect, the core value of life, which is respect each other. And just let's live together. Let's enjoy everything together. Let's do things together instead of always trying to divide each other. And that's what I want football to always be the main thing that brings us together. Not divide us, not divide people, not players against each other, not teams against each other, not managers against each other, not fans against each other. Yes, the fans come to watch the game, but they also have a responsibility of watching, enjoying the game without discrimination, without insulting anyone.

1:03:00John Obi Mikel:your color of your skin shouldn't be any, shouldn't play a part in the game. Football should always bring us together. Always bring us, that's something we love and cherish. But in the past couple of weeks, football has slowly but surely losing its reputation. We have to build it back. We have to get it back. And that comes from, again, education. From academies, in school. FIFA has, need to do more. you know, in these academies, in these youths, to educate, not just playing football. There's no place for this. Same in schools. There's no place for it. We all have to do more and we can do more.

1:03:42Chris McHardy:Wise words from John Obi Mikel. I think you'll all agree on that front. Listen, John, it's always been great. It is always great sitting down and having a natter with you and taking the Mikel. Right, City to win the league. That's John's thoughts. I've got a steak dinner and I'm still hoping Arsenal get the job done and maybe just maybe Spurs to get sucked down as well. Right, taking the Mikel reminder, do follow us across all your different social media platforms. The Louis Figo exclusive. Yes, that's right, Louis Figo on this very podcast. That is out now, check it out. We've got some big episodes on the way as well.

1:04:15Chris McHardy:John and I have been to Kenya, all to be revealed on that. And we've got some monster names, including John's little brother. my old brother

1:04:25John Obi Mikel:he's a year old he's a year older

1:04:27Chris McHardy:you called him your little brother he's your little big brother okay that's all upcoming on the Obi-Wan podcast brought to you by the wonderful team a bet winner to that for now