Peter Crouch exclusive: ‘Falling short’ at Liverpool, Gerrard ‘cheating’ with Torres & struggles over ‘the way he looked’

0:05This is the Obi-Wan podcast made possible by BetWenner, the main man, John Obi-Wan, Chris McCarty, and we're fraternizing John with the enemy. Of course, of course we're here. We're here with the enemy. But I'm in a boss's seat today, isn't I? You're speaking outrageous. I'm taking your seat today. It's an outrage. Do you know what? We call this the Chumba One boss. and it's been Obi-Wan today. No, it's just totally fine. It's okay. I am loving the fact that Sufa was not built for a 6.7 Peter Crouch. You know, you there, Pete. I'm, well, listen, I'm happy. There's been plenty of good, you know, we've had Duncan Fergus on here last week.

0:43He was, he was on here last week. Okay. yeah. Big Duncan. Big Duncan was on here. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. That's good. He's a hard man. He is a hard man. Oh, my God. Jesus. No, but great stories, you know, and that's the thing about doing these podcasts right obviously you know you're doing this now it's fantastic but I just love it talking to people like some of my heroes and going and just chatting and getting stuff out and talking about football the podcast is fine you loved it and John's been on yours now it's just reciprocal you're just coming on ours and you're lending us your home as well as a cracking set up you've got a lot in common you boys you came up against each other a couple of months back in Anfield you won Peter you scored two goals you played magnificently I know you did you were Chelsea's best player what was it like putting back at Liverpool you know what I've not done I've not done many of these I don't know what you were like John I haven't played many cherry games or I tried to kind of go like that was my time and I'm doing something else now I know I'm not going to be as good as I was but then you know things like this come around where my little boy is a Liverpool fan now he's six years old and he's never seen me play so just to for me to walk out Anfield again and show him yeah yeah exactly just don't embarrass yourself so obviously then when I scored a goal it was so it was just so it was a really it felt the same as when I scored there in the Premier League yeah you really did it yeah no no I mean the game was going really well for us until obviously he came on I was like oh my god and then the ball started going wide and the crosses started coming in I was like okay that's it we're done and then before you know it it was 2-0 you know, bang, game over.

2:25But no, it was a great game. I tell you what, your first goal, I mean, that is Peter Crouch of old, down, just lifted it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a thing of beauty. Oh, thank you very much. None of it. Well, I felt great. I actually felt like quite, I know you only played a half. I mean, you played more than that. Yeah. But I, yeah, I felt quite physically fit. But he, I mean, he was running the show. You know, we had Stevie G in there. Oh, he's still playing, yeah. I mean, He's pinging it round. Yeah. But I said to him when he first came in today, I was like, you could still play. I know, I know.

2:57But Stevie was good, wasn't it? I mean, it's like the old Stevie. I was obviously in the middle with him, but you can still see, you know, he was just screaming and shouting and commanding everybody, telling everybody what to do. And you can still feel, he still feels like he still, he wants to play. Was that how he was back then when you guys were playing at Liverpool? Was he the guy that made sure everybody was doing everything right? Yeah, that was it. I think certainly when I signed, you know, I've mentioned this before, but like I found myself trying to impress Stevie more than the manager.

3:30No, because he had that kind of presence, you know, like I just want to impress him and I want to show him that I'm good enough for Liverpool and the standard set are just, you know, and I'm sure he's very similar to when you arrive and you've got, you know, Frank and JT, you know, they're kind of like embodied the football club and they set the standards that you have to adhere to and if you don't reach those heights then you're not good enough for that and they'll be very quick to tell you that as well and he would lead on the pitch he wouldn't have to scream and shout he would buy his performance and he would drag some maybe probably not as good players as him up to a level where they probably, I mean I probably got to levels I didn't think I could get to and that was down to him just dragging me along and making the standard fire.

4:20Trying to impress TV. Yeah, exactly. You've spoken about it. It's interesting, John. You talked about Chelsea. You had to wait a long time, you felt, to earn the trust from your JTs, your lamps, your Petr Cechs, your DDA Drogba's. At Liverpool, was it Steven or was there a fraction there? Was Jamie Carragher more of that? No, Carragher would be the same as well. Like, I found myself trying to impress them because, I mean, they're the football club, right? And I think, you know, with certain players, other clubs, you think of Manchester United, you know, we probably think of Roy Keane, you know, Gary Neville players, Paul Scholes.

4:56And if you go there, they, you know, same at Barcelona with Xavi or, you know, where you are, Sergio Ramos, maybe Real Madrid. They're the players that you think, I need to impress them. You know, they embody kind of like what the city is. They live and breathe it. And, you know, I think once you, you kind of impress them or not really, impress them but you know just make sure that you're there to work hard for the for the good of the club and the city then you you know kind of get accepted did you find that Chelsea though when you when you first arrived of course yeah you have to kind of yeah get those elite players kind of on site yeah of course the top players obviously like John Terry Frank Lampard uh and it's true you have to go in there to try to impress those guys because you want them to accept you you don't really think about the manager you're thinking oh if I if John Terry can can be in my corner then i'm halfway through the door uh but uh no i definitely understand that and um so just going back to to to how does it feel i mean when you when you guys played the derby because i always try to to think about it the derby between liverpool and everything leading games days leading up to that game how as players how did you guys feel how was it the training intensity around the place.

6:12How, what was it like leading up to that game? Yeah, that starts up early. Like, I remember like, certainly Jamie Carragher, because of his connections to Everton as well beforehand. Right. I think, you know, he lives and breathes it and I think, you know, you can tell kind of two weeks in advance he's kind of getting involved in the game and certainly on the Monday, you'd say we're playing on the Saturday, you know, he's just going around people like everyone, making sure people are fit, like that level of nervousness and anxiousness because, it's not even about winning the game. It's just not about, like, don't lose it.

6:44Don't lose it. Because it's so intense, like, around the place. And I always remember my first one, I'm sitting on the bus, we're going to Goodison Park. Yeah. The ones at Goodison were amazing. Anfield was special, but Goodison, you just saw the, the atmosphere. It was like, real passionate hatred, right? Yeah. And, Is that how you guys felt, though? Hatred? Well, from the fans? there's a certain, you know, there's some very kind of, yeah, I would find it would be very intense certainly at Goodison and of course you know on a Monday morning after the game whatever people still work and you've got people in families who are one side of red one side of blue but there is certainly a hostile atmosphere at Goodison one that I loved and I remember sitting on the bus and Stevie saying to me like if you score today you'll always be remembered and I remember scoring my first Merseyside Derby at Goodison it was might have been the second goal might have been the first actually I remember Stevie headed it through to me and it was Gladys Street end actually and I went around the goalkeeper and scored and the buzz was just unreal because I knew there's probably two or three goals that are really remembered by the fans the derby and then the winner against United in the FA Cup as well and two rules The derby's an interesting one because you think City the rivalry red half blue half the Everton rivalry though they always call it a bit of a friendly rivalry the rivalry with Manchester United Peter is absolutely not the start of a season you beat Man United over Everton yes yeah that's the one the United game like excellent the Merseyside derby is amazing and I love it as well but like there is genuinely like the city the thing you know Manchester and Liverpool the two most successful clubs you know in the country historically um there's there's so many factors of you know just society even you know that go into that game there's not just you know there's there's there's games and then there's games that are bigger than anything i think like people you just can't play from for both you know there's no one yeah it doesn't cross it doesn't work yeah um even you know i speak you speak to people that don't really like the game they still have nothing good to say about my united

9:08and it was exactly the same the other way Man United don't have anything to say about the city of Liverpool you know it's just not that's how much goes into the game and again it's so important to win that one and let's be honest United have had that over Liverpool for a long long time you know they've been the better side that kind of European history definitely stood Liverpool in good stead but you know And now that in recent history, Liverpool have got the league titles as well now. Because for you, John, obviously at the start of a season, Liverpool and Peter Thurman played for a number of clubs.

9:45Where did Liverpool sit for Chelsea? Of course, for us, it wasn't as rivalry as it is with you guys and Manchester United. But of course, you look at that. When the fixtures do come up, you look at that, Liverpool, Manchester United, and you're thinking, okay, these are the guys we need to beat if we need to win the title. If you want to call yourself a title contender, you have to be able to beat Manchester United and Liverpool. Not so much Arsenal. Yeah, no, you guys were the guys to beat. So for us, we always looked at that schedule and think, okay, if we can get three points, six points, beat Liverpool home and away, then you're sort of halfway knowing that, okay, you might be able to win the title.

10:25That's how the fixture was. You know, there was a period there where, you know, that Chelsea team that you played with where I think of like the Robin, Duff, you know, McAlealy, Essien, Lampard, like Balak, the Terry, like there was a check, something unbelievable, like that, over the course of a 38 game season, it just, we fell short of that. I don't think we, I think, in our heart, to be totally honest now, if you look at the two squads on paper, I think, yeah, we had elite players that could get in your team and vice versa, but I think you probably, well, you definitely had a better side. But I think over the course of the, just one game or a two leg game, like the Champions League or the FA Cup, we could win.

11:09But over the course of a 38 game season, there's no... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, do you, do you, I mean, looking back at your career and I know as a player, playing it up against you, coming up against you, I don't think you did, actually did get the credit that you deserve. People just think, okay, Crouch is good on the ball on the air he can head the ball he can chase the ball but technically you're quite good because I played against you I know how good you are technically do you think you didn't get enough credit from the fans from people about how good you are technically yeah no do you know what I think people that understand football like know that I can play you know and I grew up look I didn't I wasn't born 6 for 7 right but when I was a normal height I wanted to You call that?

11:59Yeah. I don't want to be a big target, man. I want to be a big player. I want to score over it. I want to score like, you know, I want to be a big player. I want to chip the goalkeeper. I want to be a flair player. Yeah. And I grew up just enjoying watching, you know, the greats like Brazilian Ronaldo. And, you know, you want to watch great midfielders and people that can pass the ball and play football as it should be played. And, yeah, of course, your body changes. you know when I was a kid I could go past people I realised very quickly I wasn't a quick player you know I had to adapt but I still had a good touch so you can fire the ball into me I can play in lots of different ways obviously I have to use my aerial ability as well so then I had to I had to learn how to hit the ball you know because you know being so tall when I was a kid just used to stand there and just nod it on you know like score goals with my head no problem the minute you get to kind of professional club level or elite level you know people can jump people know how to use their body you know it doesn't matter how tall you are if you're not jumping you're not winning a hit you're not going to win it yeah and I always remember Les Ferdinand said to me he was brilliant with me Les and I was at Tottenham in the youth team and he just showed me kind of how to jump one of the best headers of the ball we've ever seen in Premier League and he showed me how to use my body a little bit more and then I realised it could be it could be a weapon but I'd still have that ability to play to play yeah but I could also score goals with my head as well yeah I know you've scored some brilliant goals amazing goals some of them I still see today like on TV is there which one is your favourite which one will you say it's your this is my favourite goal oh it's so hard to pick one like picking one of my kids or something you know you definitely got one I have got one but I won't say it no I think you know I've got a couple right but certainly I grew up watching Italian football and absolutely loved it so to score the winner in the San Siro the Tottenham not that they're great the goals.

13:55I mean, Aaron Lennon did everything. I just squared it back. To score the winner in the San Siro, he's a great AC Milan team. Obviously, that was one. I think, kind of, third technically, for technical goals, I think. Is it a bicycle? Yeah, I got a bicycle kick against Galatasaray and the third of the Hatchikar scored for Liverpool against Arsenal. And then the Stoke versus Manchester City goal where I kind of popped up and volleyed. Yeah, that one, yeah. they're kind of for an away goal there was it was Tottenham I scored a header to get us into the Champions League against Man City and it was us or them and that the scenes behind the goal when I scored that you know like knowing that Tottenham have qualified for the Champions League for the first time and that being the goal to do it so they're like my babies but for different reasons different reasons like that does it it's technically yeah it's interesting you mentioned that game 2011 San Siro because the other kind of incident in that game not just your winning goal was Gattuso versus Joe Jordan we remember those two squaring up come on Pete who wins a fight you you you Joe Jordan Joe was he was a lot older then you know he was a lot older payday no contest but you know Gattuso was a hard man but Joe I mean Joe was quite calm but the way Gattuso was behaving in that game he was running around trying to kick people and he just felt like he kind of lost the plot a little bit and you know, it must have been that we were doing our job right, right?

15:27Yeah, yeah, exactly. And he ended up squaring up with Joe and Joe was a hard man. There's no way he's backing that. He's not going to back that. No. I remember he could sue so heavily just thinking, what on earth is going on here? Betwinner, home of two winners. We've spoken, I know Joe references it quite a bit, your buddy, Salomon Kalou, Michael Ballack, their little teta thing. You had a little, you had a little slapping match with Florent Malouda once upon a time. Oh yeah, I did, yeah, with Malouda, yeah. with Malouda. You have had a scrappy. Oh, I'm not that type of guy, really, but, you know, there's a few, there's a few things I regret on the football pitch, you know, definitely.

16:05I have apologized, John, for one of the worst tackles I think I've ever done in my life. That's what I got to do. It's not really for God. Oh, I'm going to get it. I thought he was going to come in at two footers. But, yeah, I mean, that was bad, but, no, I don't think, not as great I'll be honest with you I don't feel I've had a fight in my life and I listen I had to toughen up as a kid and you know you think about I had a reasonable upbringing it was quite nice I was quite lucky and then when I got to to kind of Tottenham and see the kids are coming off the estate and and my dad had a thing like you need to want it as much as them right so like I had to kind of toughen up really okay I was too nice and I think my personality kind of off the field you know I had to be someone different as soon as I crossed the white line and I had to make myself angry.

16:57I had to make myself want it, you know, and my dad helped with that, but I managed to get there and I think you do have to be a different person. Yeah, you can be as nice as you want off the pitch, but you can't be a nice guy on it. Otherwise, you don't get to where we eventually got him. I mean, talking about Liverpool, you just said it, the one man who embodied the football club, Steven Gerrard, how good was he Steven Gerrard you know people talk about Steven Gerrard Frank Lampard and both goals if you have to rate those three players but first of all tell me how good and how important was Steven Gerrard for the Liverpool football not just the club but for the city I remember when he wanted to leave to come to Chelsea that was crazy wasn't it you know there was a lot of people got involved there was so much going on how important is he to that city and that football club.

17:51Well, yeah. Like when you think about like Liverpool, in general, obviously, you know, the great managers of the past, the history, the players obviously kind of just before my time, obviously, Kenny Dalglish, John Barnes, Ian Rush. Steven Gerrard's in that category of player. You know, that's the level that he has. And I think the fact that he's, you know, if he had left the club and gone to Chelsea, he wouldn't have been talked about in these it's like Trent now exactly like Trent now so I think he would have been you know he may have been eventually up there with with the greats like that but the fact that he's left that you know he's still he's still proven what he's achieved but he won't be I don't think thought about in those in those circumstances just because he left the club and I think people find it really difficult to understand but Liverpool don't see anything else other than other than Liverpool in their club and the fact that he stayed there for as long as he did and he could have gone anywhere by the way and you could have played in any team and Liverpool at that time aren't the Liverpool now you know that wasn't that wasn't the team it was a very good team but it wasn't you know they were winning Premier League title which Liverpool have the ability to do now so yeah that's the difference between kind of how elite Steven Gerrard is and I think longevity and as a player as well you mentioned those three players I never actually played with Scholes but I played against him many a time I remember they used to say to me sometimes you drop on a deep line midfielder as a forward just get round him fucking get round him if I get close then he's popping it round I stand off him, he's in 60 yards so like I'll always remember my times just get round him you can't get the ball off he's not going to beat you maybe but you're just not going to one touch football Yeah.

19:45Stay off him and he just hit these paths. What about Lewis? Because we've talked to Frank Lamourne. What impressed you about him, Pierre? Because we've heard this from Harry and then John's talked about the fact that training was like, he was a beast. He trained like every day, like it was his last. But what impressed you when you saw him at England, when you saw him afar playing against him at Chelsea? What stood out for you? Yeah, I think, I think like, the thing is with those three players, obviously they are some of the three best players, certainly in England of our generation. But like, they all had different qualities really.

20:19Like Stevie could do a little bit of everything, you know, like he could tackle, he could pass, he could head, he could go past, he could score goals. You know, Paul Scholes was just a naturally gifted footballer. Beautifully natural. And then, and Frank was just a mentality monster, right? He just, I went watching him train. He's just like, I need, that's where I need to be if I want to be elite. And he, you know, he set the standards, he set the tone. he scored goals I mean like his goal record from midfield is ridiculous like it's scandalous I mean I don't think there's many I don't think there's anyone who's got more like 20 or more goals yeah 20 or more goals every season yeah how mad is that what he's doing crazy yeah and I think you know he could still play though you know people will underestimate how good he was as a player as well yeah he scored goals but I think the practice you know watching him finishing you know as a finisher when he was right up there with the very best as even center forward as well.

21:13No, no, he is. No, he never did. No, he never did. Pace, you know, no back lift. Like, he'd always hit the target with like a lot of power. Yeah. Very rarely off target. Yeah, he's always shot. Every time his back is always like that, isn't it? And he, the technique is so perfect that, you know, once he gets it right, you know, this is, you know, it's back of the net. And yeah, no, it's the perfect way to describe those guys. All three of them. Obviously, we had the pleasure of playing with or against them. So, but I would always say I've always said Steven Gerrard for me, Stevie G was my toughest, you know, was the guy that like you said, can run, can shoot, can tackle, can do everything, can head.

21:55So for me, yeah, Stevie G was the toughest for me. I've got to ask because the two men that you've got in common, I appreciate you've played with a lot of players, you know a lot, Steve Sidwell being one of course on your pod meter, but talk to me about Rafa Benitez. Because John, you bumped into him in Munich, he's still Big rougher. Yeah, yeah. Big rougher. What was your relationship like? Yeah, like I... He gave me the stories about him. He can be difficult. Yeah, he was difficult at times. And I think he's not always, you know, a people person, really. You know, like he's very tactically aware.

22:28And I think some people do maybe take him the wrong way. He's hard to read. You can never read him, definitely. I know that for some of his teams. Yeah, I mean, I remember being, you know, in the change room you didn't know who was even traveling on a private no like he'd pin it up on the board and you'd be like Xabi Alonso is not even in the squad and you're like why is it what's going on here and he'd have his reasons and he'd be like yeah he'd say you know well he played two games this week and you know his levels of fatigue are down and it's almost like he's playing a game of chess yes all the time and you know it was unbelievable tactically and it was two or three steps ahead but yeah sometimes kind of with the man management he wouldn't have as much of that as Harry Redknapp so I'd be able to talk to Harry about anything in life I never got that feeling off Rattler but then obviously he gave me the opportunity to play for what I consider the greatest club in the world to play for Liverpool and at that time I'll always be thankful for that and some of my best memories of my life are playing for that club and obviously he gave me those.

23:39So I'll always be forever in Rafa's seven. You could never. No, you could never read it. You could knock on his door and sit and talk about the kids or family. No, no, no, no, no. You can never read Rafa. You don't know what he's thinking days before a game. You play a game and you play well. And you think in the next game, okay, I'm going to be in the squad or in the team because I played well. No, no, no, you're out. You're not even in the squad, you're out. And he doesn't explain to you the reason why. So it's somebody that you can never read. You can never go to him and speak to him and he give you a genuine explanation.

24:09I think that's why he found it difficult when he came to us at Chelsea because obviously John Terry wants to be playing, Frank Lampard wants to be playing. And they've always had that. Man has always come to them to explain why they're not playing because he wants to raise them because it's an important game. But with Rafa, you don't get that. You don't get that at all. A few words about our proud sponsors. Betwinner is your reliable partner in the world of sports betting. Enjoy placing bets on any sports event with great odds and maximum convenience. visit betwiner.com now moving on to to Garrett Bale when you played Spurs you played with him at Spurs did you ever think when he moved to Real Madrid that he's going to become the Garrett Bale that we I know he started to you could start you started to see that at Spurs just before he left to Madrid but did you think you could go on to achieve what he's achieved and become this Garrett Bale yeah I think I think certainly towards the end of my time at Spurs like he was he was a Galactico right he was one of the best players in the world but yeah do I think he's going to go on and win what five Champions League you know way achieved I mean he was up there and scored one of the greatest goals in the tournament oh yeah I mean not talked about unbelievable you know I remember Gareth when he was struggling he was playing left back and people say to me you know why was he struggling so much and it's like I always felt like it's like playing Cristiano Ronaldo right back you know like yeah he's gonna get turned inside out really like he's not great defensively as soon as we pushed Gareth forward or Harry pushed Gareth forward like the left wing we realised his attributes they're not defensive you know like it's like just giving the ball and he'll beat people and obviously we had that Champions League run where obviously Mike on it was one of the best I think it was one of the best right backs in the world right and I mean what he did to him over two legs I remember I played in a game where he scored the hat-trick in the San Siro and every one of them was the same goal it was like he'd go past and bang bang all three goals similar and that was when obviously we realised and even in training when he was going through that period where he hadn't won for ages and he was playing left back and he was really struggling with his confidence it was a rumour that not in the forest bid three million and it was there was a real thing about whether possibility that he was going to go right and maybe he just isn't going to work at Tottenham and then he got pushed further forward and he just went back but was it as simple as that Pete a simple case of pushing him forward or did you witness Harry was he spending a lot of time with him or any of the players or is it as simple as just moving the bloke from left back to left away I remember because when I was signed for the club he was going through a difficult period I think Harry put him on because he hadn't won in like 20 odd games and it was like it was him he was the problem or something which was never the case but I think Harry put him on like with 3-0 up and threw him get out of your back and then yeah then he just he kind of in training every single day even when he was going through that difficult period he was one of the best players every day you know what I mean like how is this how is this kid struggling and for whatever reason it wasn't working and then it just went bang and then all of a sudden he was our best player and then he was in a free roll and it was just give Gareth the ball and that was our tactic bearing in mind we had Modric we had Modric we had Van der Vaughan we got Lennon we had a good team and Defoe Robbie Keane some amazing players but still the tactic was to give it to Gareth you know give it to Gareth and how could he be yeah wow yeah I can remember that I mean just before he went through Madrid yeah that Champions League game with with Mike on destroyed him destroyed him Luka Modric is a player we haven't spoken about a lot yeah Luka Modric he would have come up against Luka as well he's coming off the back of 28 major trophies at Real Madrid the most decorated player in Real Madrid history there's another wee fella that you played with as well yeah Luka what a great lad first and foremost top great guy you know like one of those people who just loves to be in his company yeah him and Chor Luka were like really good friends obviously Chor Luka yeah at Tottenham and we had Nico Cranshaw as well another Croatian boy and they were all really good lads I got on really well with them but as a player just beautiful to watch you know like I genuinely think in the whole time I was there I don't think I've seen him get the ball away and I'm not even joking I'm not talking in training as well right he'd be in some you play a small sided game and he'd be in the corner and you have two men and he'd be facing like the corner flag and he had them like snake hips you know like where he just he'd kind of send someone that way I'll slap on that one and wriggle out and wriggle out of it keep the ball going with the little way he pushes it that's it on the side foot yeah just pushing it out like that I'm like oh it's just beautiful I remember being injured once right me and Harry were on the sidelines watching him dream Harry was going I said you know when you're when you're in it yeah when I was injured I remember watching we had Van der Vaart Modric right Bale you know Lennon Huddleston had a great and I'm sitting there watching this little five-a-side watching Modric I said Harry just leaned over to me he's like I get to watch this every day he said sometimes I'm like wow I've got a team here I don't have to do anything yeah yeah literally just let them play let them play it's amazing amazing team you have then I don't know if you were Were you in Liverpool When Fernando Torres Joined the football club Yeah Yeah How special was he When he joined the football club And of course Yeah And then of course He had a massive injury And then he came to Chelsea It didn't work out for him But How good was he Fernando Torres I mean he came into the Premier League And just Lit everything on fire Yeah I mean he's the reason I left Right Yeah If you're watching Do you want No he is He is because, you know, I just looked at the partnership between him and Stevie, right?

30:30Oh, yeah. It's like having a, you know, it's like an ex-wife. It's like a girlfriend, right? And you see her with someone else and they're blossoming in there. And you're like, oh. Oh, there you go. He's done big off. Well, basically, I'm watching Stevie Chi every week, you know? I've got to move on. I've got to move on. Yeah, it was hard to watch, but it was so beautiful to watch. Yeah. because they had such an understanding. It quickly just turned into something. Yeah, it was incredible. And like, you know, Steve, he's so smart. He played just behind. Mike Ronaldo, Jabby behind that. Yeah, I mean, it was an amazing midfield as well.

31:10And, you know, he would kind of slip him into little areas and then he was unplayable in those little kind of pockets kind of in between the centre half and the fullback. You just receive it on the side and he just burned. He'd stand you up and be gone. and then he'd always finish and you kind of knew what he was going to do but you couldn't stop it. You couldn't stop it, yeah. Yeah, just at Liverpool and I know it didn't work out for him at Chelsea and I've watched a lot of games at Chelsea and he just didn't look the same way. No, it didn't look simple. And I know he had an injury but I think just when he was so confident not even thinking about what he was doing, you know, just everything was coming off.

31:46Do you think that was mentally or do you think his partnership with TVG he just couldn't find out at Chelsea or do you think that was just mentally he just couldn't you just couldn't deal with the pressure of, I think also the transfer fee was huge. I think that was a, that was a big factor, but I think at Liverpool, he was adored. Like he was the main man, right? Literally like he was number one. You had Stevie in him, right? And yeah, we had some amazing players around that as well. But, but Torres, I mean, they used to sing his name for 90 minutes. Wow. Like it was consistent. Wow. It was number nine.

32:19It was just, it's still in my head now. I was like, in the bench, go. Oh my God. Yeah, like, he's a hero, right? And I think that, that definitely gives you an extra something, you know? I think at Chelsea, he's come from Liverpool, you know, that, it's a lot of money, doesn't score for a while and it kind of weighs on your mind and for whatever reason it didn't work but Liverpool, it was, it was special and I think the fans really took to him and when he left, it was a big deal but then, you know, they managed to get Suarez and you think, you know, you think he'll never kind of, have that again oh my god yeah Suarez yeah wow wow Suarez that's incredible I mean you guys have had so many great strikers at Liverpool I just saw before I forget this though your wife Adi you've talked about her not knowing so much about football how's that going?

33:09well you know what I actually loved the fact that she had no clue no clue and when I say no clue I'm talking like no clue whatsoever about football really? yeah but I even when she met you she didn't no I mean she knew that I played for you yeah yeah yeah but yeah no no interest whatsoever and I think I think it's really her dad is a massive fan right her brother's a fan she's been dragged to football her whole life so subconsciously she understands the game but she doesn't want to be you know her partner right wow I think for me I come home from from football and she just changed the subject instantly and I think for some reason that works right so I'm I could have scored a hat trick and come on on cloud nine or I come home and I've missed two chances and I'm gonna you know just go in my and cry and I the minute I come home it's changed my mind's somewhere else now it's gone she's gone you won't believe this happened with the kids and I'm like so then I'm thinking that's gone yeah bizarrely it really kind of helped helped you I was just gonna say that no we're not talking about how was it today exactly no we're not even talking about it it's gone it's forgotten that dynamic of my household really really helped me genuinely I think even when I was going through real tough times or really good times the fact that it was not even you were just Peter it was gone right straight away that's amazing yeah because I remember sometimes I came back home you know you had a bad game and you're sitting there you know how we feel you know you want to kill yourself you're thinking about it and maybe having somebody we spoke to and because you were always talking about it and it's there you're stewing on it it's just maybe I could have done this I could have done this I could have done that it probably talks to you about it but in your case she just changes the subject and then it's like we're gone I used to do the music at Stoke I've told this story before but and obviously it's on my phone and I remember we had I think it was Arsenal five to three she's calling me right and my my phone's on the dock playing the music right so we're getting everyone hyped we're getting yeah yeah fuck that fuck anyway so I think it was Mark Hughes was the manager he's like answer it so I'm like oh come on let me go can you answer it so anyway she's playing through the speaker what are you up to

35:29you want to go into a game yeah yeah he's got Arsenal he's got Arsenal at home babe I'm going out in two minutes she's like alright where's that I'm like nothing unbelievable that is unbelievable yeah yeah I'm real I mean, I bet there's a beauty to that. As you say, it's switching. You left at like, you know, nine o 'clock this morning. You've not played it yet. I love that fucking old story. I want to ask another man that you two know very well, Tony Pulis. You were seeing off air, Pete, that you still have a great relationship with him. What was he like? Because I've heard that Tony's mad as a boxer frog, like the next man.

36:10Was he? What story have you got for us, Tony Pulis? Yeah, I mean, he was mad. He's got his ways. But you know what? One of the best human beings I think I've ever come across in football. I know you were. Yeah, I was. We were just talking off camera, saying the same thing, really. He'd always ask about your family. He'd always ask about how you were feeling, what you wanted to do. And I think if you gave everything for him, he would be just as accommodating back to you. And I think just to deal with him on a human level, like one of the best people I've ever met, And I think a lot of people might find that difficult because he was a hard man, right?

36:46And I think, you know, he was a hard player. I spoke to Harry about him as a player because he signed him. And yeah, he was a hard man. I mean, he's a tough tackler. As you see, the stoke teams that he produced were difficult. Yeah, stoke teams. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But as a human being, I'm one of the best people I've met. He always asks about Abstil now and my wife, she'll tell you now. She's a family man, isn't he? Oh, you love the family. She'll say like, out of all my managers, he'd be a favourite, you know what I mean? Because he's always asking about her and the kids and he wants to know your family situation, not just you as a player.

37:20And I think if you give everything for him, then he would just give you everything at times 10 back. Yeah. Tactically, he was all right, John. I mean, you played with him in Middlesbrough, right? Tactically, yeah, he's all right. But I think, obviously, I think with Tony, I think it's his man management. I think what you just said there, you know, his man management is what really connects him with the players and that's how he gets the best out of the players. You know, yes he'll be on the touchline screaming and shouting and kicking everything but tactically I think for me I think he's a good manager I really enjoy working with him I really enjoy working with him there'll be people screaming here that I've played with you know thinking no like how can you speak about him like that because if you fall out of line you know very quickly I think he's not a person that I would like to cross you know but I think if you give 100 % like I felt like I did whenever I played for him, then he will be brilliant for you.

38:14But if you're not in the team and you want to kick up a fuss about that, then there'll be plenty of people. That Stoke team. You know, John talks about the fact Chelsea could mix it. Chelsea could play, but there were monsters. I appreciate you, Pierre. You're six foot seven, so no one looks tall to you. And that Stoke team could mix it on their day. I mean, Arsenal, they fucking hated coming to the team. Oh, they hated it. They hated it. But you know that Stoke team there, we had some quality in there as well. We added to it, you know, but we had like four centre-halves across the back right we had a centre-half right back two centre-foot backs obviously and then the left back they were centre-halves no one liked coming and then you know we made things difficult for them and yes certainly Arsenal in general really it felt like we were it was like when we were going through the teams at the start of the season it was like you know we played either you know you'd think where are you going to at your points.

39:11The Arsenal banker. That's Arsenal, do you know what I mean? Because we made it so hard. So hard for them, yeah. You could tell they didn't enjoy coming. So now you, obviously, the transition, obviously, after playing football, I play paddle now. Yeah, I love playing paddle. Absolutely love paddle. Do you play paddle? Yeah, yeah, I love it. Yeah, yeah. But one thing I need to ask, how's your golf game? No, mate. I feel like you're referring to on social media actually the worst thing is I talk about golf all the time I do a podcast with my wife as well me and Sid talk about it on my club and then there's loads of people out there first time they see me play is this shot on the I've got it don't post that on social media please outrageous those fellas up in there as well I was chatting to them after as well and I didn't say one thing I'm going to post it or anything oh it was a yeah I actually played right after that.

40:11Yeah. What did you shoot me? I couldn't tell you what I shot, but I was hitting the ball quite nicely. But obviously that first shot is the only one that's got a blow. The beauty of you, though, is you're self-deprecating. Yeah. There's a lot of people getting out. No, you've got to have fun with it. Oh, you've got to have a lot. Yeah, of course. In general, like, you know, there's stuff out there around me that I'm making complete, you know, arse of myself. But at the end of the day, it's like everyone makes mistakes. Everyone, you know, everyone's hit a bad shot in golf. Yeah, yeah, yeah. but yeah unfortunately not always captured Betwinner your bets your wins I know you've spoken to John about obviously a hugely proud Nigerian won the African Cup of Nations your record for England is unbelievable you're almost a goal every two games 22 goals just over 40 caps what was it about international football that just suited you down to the bleeding ground yeah it's so weird it's so weird like I found I found the Premier League probably harder than the Champions League or international football.

41:12Really? Bizarrely, that's weird. But I just felt when I went away in Europe or like I felt the teams weren't as good at coping with me. Right. Definitely, you know, in Champions League, they're better. They're better, yeah. Technically, but from what I could do, I felt the centre-halves in England were kind of harder for me to play against some of the best centre-halves in the world. They're just not dealing with a player like me on a day-to-day basis. So I always felt I could get the better of them. And it's kind of the higher I went the kind of more comfortable I felt. There's a weird thing to say and I know like it's like I'm not even bigging myself up.

41:47I just feel like for my qualities it felt I felt more comfortable playing. I scored a lot of goals in the Champions League I scored goals at the international level and also the players around me went up you know so as soon as I get in the Champions League I'm playing with top players. But you think about my England team you know I've got David Beckham right crossing balls all day for me. Even Gary never got that much delivery was first class. Gary Neville. Gary Neville. Yeah, mate, cropped him, right? Mate, he used to overlap consistently, Beck. Oh, that's why he's got overlapping. Exactly right.