Zico exclusive: Why I’d pick Cristiano over Messi and Africa’s greatest ever is…

0:05I want to welcome you to McCannabar for a very, very special edition of the Obi-Wan podcast made possible by Betwinner, John Obi Mikel, Chris McHardy. We are a stone's throw away from the iconic Maracanã. And John, we have got one of Brazilian football's greatest ever players alongside us. One of the greatest players that's ever played for Brazil and for Flamengo is here, of course. Zico, welcome to the Obi-Wan Podcast. It's nice to have you here. Come on, let's get some cheers, hey! This is your club. What do you make of this fantastic football club? Every game there is 50 ,000 to 60 ,000 people cheering for Flamengo.

0:51And I'm very happy to see this many people on Maracana every match day. And these last years, the Flamengo's directors are putting a lot of effort in building a strong team to have as many people supporting the team in good games ahead. They are winning a lot of titles and a lot of championships. And with that, the fans are getting bigger and bigger. The small children now, they are all cheering for Flamengo. And our manager, he was an amazing player, and he's doing a very, very good job as a Flamengo's coach. We are friends and I am very happy to see him achieve everything that he is achieving.

1:31He was part of one of the greatest moments in Flamengo's history in 2019 as a player. He's worked with a lot of great players, he's also worked with great coaches and everything that he has learned through all of these people he's putting in practice today with Flamengo. I believe the future of Felipe Luiz is going to be coaching the Brazilian national team. Wow, and also maybe one day he can also coach Chelsea. You can notice in Philippe Luis's press conferences that he has a special feeling for Chelsea and Atletico Madrid. And I think he could be a good coach for these two teams. And maybe he will do it.

2:12Mareska was my player in Greece. A very good guy. After Flamengo beat Chelsea and Chelsea started to progress in the competition, I started cheering for Chelsea because of the coach of Chelsea. He was a great player, a great coach, and he helped me a lot as a player at Olympiacos. Esteval at Chelsea is a very exciting talent. How good can he be? He's a very good player. He shares a lot of characteristics with Jamal. He has a lot of ability with his feet. He's very strong. And I think that he can become a very good player and do a lot of good things for Chelsea. Betwinner, home of true winners.

2:53Amazing. Listen, I know he played for, he was just telling me he started playing for Flamingo at the age of 14 years old for 20 years. And I know, of course, he played with the great Pelé. What is his relationship, what was his relationship with Pelé and what sort of a person is he? And when they played together, what was the relationship with both of them? It was very good, a very good relationship. We played two times on the same side. It was two games to raise money for weather tragedies that happened here in Brazil. And we played for Flamengo. And I played two times against him when he was starting his career.

3:33He was playing left wing. And I was just watching what Pelé would do the whole time. Growing up, I used to collect album stickers, which taught you different football skills and techniques from Pelé. This is how I used to learn about football as a child. Does he still have the stickers? I don't have the sticker album anymore. but I learned a lot. In my house, I was just mimicking what the sticker described. Heading, shooting, controlling the ball. I learned a lot. The greatest player that he's ever seen. Pele. No Messi. No Ronaldo. After. Another generation. When you talk about soccer players, you have to take Pele off the list to just make it fair.

4:18Because God gave everything to Pele. who in return left everything on the field. He was very good at what he did, and there is no one who can equal him. It's normal that people of this generation of these days think about Messi and Ronaldo, but what Pele did in the circumstances of the past made it much harder to do what he did. Who's number one, who's number two, and who's number three? Pele number one, Messi then Cristiano Ronaldo. You cannot compare Messi to Ronaldo, because they are both very different players, with very different characteristics. Ronaldo didn't receive a gift of talent as Messi received.

5:00Messi didn't have to work as hard as Cristiano Ronaldo. His talent is natural. Ronaldo had to work very hard, train every day to become the world's number one, which he did. But if I had to choose to play alongside one of the two, I would choose Ronaldo. Because a lot of the things Messi does, I could do.

5:24Can we ask Eko, who's the best African footballer that he's ever seen? African footballer. This guy. I like Ococha, a fantastic player. Number 10, Okocha. Okocha. Okocha. Okocha. Okocha. Fantastic. Etowau. Fantastic. George Weah. George Weah. Drogba. The number 9 inches Cameroon. Samuel Etowau. Carlo Angelotti now is the new manager for Brazil. Carlo Angelotti. What does he think of Carlo Angelotti? Is he the guy that will make Brazil to start to win again? It is what we hoped. He has the capacity to do it. We always have some doubts if we needed a foreign coach to be the coach of the national team.

6:19I think that it happened like one or two times in the past. And if you bring a foreign coach, you have to bring the best. And Carlo Ancelotti is the best that there is. He worked with Brazilian players. He coached Brazilian players. He worked with Brazilian players off the field, and he likes Brazilian players. So I think that he's not going to have a challenge, because he's used to working with Brazilian players and has been doing it for a long time. I played against Ancelotti in Italy. He's a midfielder with a lot of technique. He was a very good player, and that's why he became a very good coach.

6:57We played against each other in Roma, and I was the defender and responsible to stop him, and I did it for 80 minutes. The one moment I switched off once, he scored. When you sleep, you sleep, you score. A few words about our crowd sponsors. Betwinner is your reliable partner in the world of sports betting. Enjoy placing bets on any sports event with great odds and maximum convenience. Visit betwinner.com now. Tell me, if Angelotti is the right man, Zico, who does he build this Brazil team around? Who is the player that this Brazil team needs to be built around? I think that if Neymar was in a good physical and technical condition like he used to be years ago, the new Brazilian national team should be focused on him and built around him.

7:49Just like Argentina did in the last World Cup with Messi. But, unfortunately, Neymar had a lot of problems in his body, that he couldn't come back as strong as we hoped. And we are just waiting to see the next steps. Does he believe, I like Neymar, I think Neymar is a fantastic player. Does he believe that Neymar maybe sometimes parties too much? Maybe sometimes he parties too much, that's why physically? Sometimes, he forgets that his number one activity is to be a football player. Unlike Messi and Ronaldo, they never forget. Messi and Ronaldo, they dedicated their lives to football. Neymar, he splits his life between football and other things that interest him.

8:33But we cannot judge because it is his life. Yeah, yeah. I just want to ask, you know, can you tell me what is his greatest achievement as a player? What is his greatest achievement as a player? Yeah, yeah. It was winning the Libertadores Cup with Flamengo in 1981. 81? Wow, I was not born then, huh? It was the first Libertadores Cup that Flamengo won. And in that moment, it was the biggest achievement for Flamengo and for my career. Wow, and after that, did he ever think of maybe one day coming to play in the Premier League in England? Yeah, I thought about going. But in my time, it was very difficult to transfer to Europe.

9:19When I went to Italy, I was almost 30. But I like to watch the Premier League. If I watch anything on TV, the first thing I am going to search is a Premier League game. What team does he support in the Premier League? At the moment, it's not that good. But I cheer for Manchester United. People always compare. I know he said he likes post goals. So we always in England, they always compare Pascos, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard. People always say which one is better. I want to know how does he again, which one is number one, two and three. Pascos one.

10:01Pascos, Frank Lampard, Gerrard. I think that Lampard and Gerrard are almost level because of how similar their characteristics are. And because of that, they had difficulties playing together in the national team. Betwina, your bets, your wins. John talks about greatest achievement. What about your biggest regret in your career? I had a very bruised knee from twisting it. After that, I accepted to travel with the Brazilian national team to the World Cup in 1986. My heart said not to go, but I went anyway. I was in pain and didn't play well. I made a mistake, which contributed to us exiting the World Cup.

10:42Then when I returned to Brazil, I had a knee surgery which left me on the sidelines for nine months. Wow, wow. Okay, who is the toughest player he ever faced in his life? The toughest player he ever faced on the pitch? Any German player.

11:02Always kicking, huh? Very strong defensively and hard to play against. Yeah. Hey, hey, hey! Pussy, pera, su rei! Hey, hey, hey! Pussy, pera, su rei! Hey, hey, hey! Pussy, pera, su rei! Hey, hey, hey! How special is it to wear the number 10 jersey for Brazil? In the beginning it was very hard because everyone wanted to be like the player Pelé was, and that is impossible. Especially for black players to be the number 10, the pressure was even higher for them. But when I started at the national team, I didn't start with the 10 already. I started with the number 8 as my jersey. So I had some time to adapt and people to know me before I moved to using the 10.

11:48And does he believe Flamengo is going to win the title this season and Copa Libertadores? I am confident that Flamengo is going to be in the final of the Libertadores. But I am not sure they are going to win as every final is so unpredictable. But I think Brazilian teams in general, they have more chances to win the Libertadores. And Flamengo is doing a good job to achieve this.