Gray Divorce (after 50) & Adult Children: The Fallout for the Family, with Oprah and Leading Experts

25:40But it was beautiful in another odd way. I think the biggest silver lining was watching my mom actually walk the talk that you were talking about. And you were such a role model and found so much joy. And now we like laugh way more than we ever did. We have the best time, including coming here today and being on the Oprah podcast. That's a huge silver lining. Thanks, Dad. But yeah, I would say now we are closer than we've ever been. And there's just so much grace that I've seen you exhibit. It's saintly, honestly. It's amazing. So is it because you were at an age where she could have a conversation because your kids are how old did you say?

26:2914 and 8. 14 and 8. So you can't have the same conversations with a 14-year-old and an 8-year-old as she would be having with you four years ago. So is it because you were older and you were able to talk about it and cry about it and all those things? I definitely didn't want to hide my emotions. So that was really important that I I could say, hey, you're seeing me cry and I'm going to be okay. I have to work through this process and I'm going to come out of this on the other side. And so I think we were in it somewhat together and I didn't hide anything, but I also always tried to say, this is what it looks like to go through a hard thing.

27:15You don't just bury it. You got to work through it. Do you find that it's a different reaction depending on how old the children are, Susan? I really do. I think it's a very different experience for younger children. They are minors. The entire system is built to try and protect them from the conflict that might be going on between their parents. There tends to be, and I'm certainly not talking about what happened here because this is beautiful, the gift you were able to give your daughters. But for many of the older adults that I've seen going through divorce with adult children, I've seen the tendency to treat the children as peers to hear what's going on down in the nitty gritty.

28:09Yeah. As opposed to how we might shelter children from that. Younger children. Well, I heard you did a podcast episode titled Divorce Triage. Right? Yeah. And and that was about how to just get your way through the these first days and months of divorce. What's your advice for those days, which which have got to be terrifying? You know, I've I've heard from many clients and been through it myself. And, you know, some days it's just hard to get out of bed. But you have to, especially if you have children. Right. And that that's actually a gift. It gives you something to get out of bed for. And reminding you, I love that you said, you know, you knew your daughters were watching.

28:54And so they were going to see how you experienced this. But what I talked about in that episode is if you have the gift of time in the beginning of your process, and I hope that everyone does because most people treat it like, oh, we've got to start the divorce immediately. You didn't. It sounds like you haven't. And, you know, that's a gift in itself because it gives you that time to get the emotional content a little bit under control so that it's not that emergency triage situation. And then start looking at what your situation might need as it comes to support. Divorce is, I will say, you know, having been in the industry for so many years, decades, it has changed from a very litigious adversarial process to something now that can be very collaborative, very supportive, and a process that helps the family work their way through that restructuring.

29:50So that's the episode was about how to pull those people together. So it doesn't have to be contentious and horrible. Okay. I want to hear from Joanne. Joanne? Hello, everyone. So I am 54 years old. I was married for 30 years and got divorced in February. And mine was not this past February. Mine was not all of a sudden. I would say probably year 10. I started to say not this doesn't really feel as loving as I thought it was going to feel. But I stayed in the relationship because I have two children. And both of us were from single-parent households. And we wanted to make sure that our children were raised in a two-parent household.

30:35And so stayed in the marriage. And then I got to age 50. And I said, hey, kids are grown. You know, I think it's time for me to, you know, move on. I have more years, you know, behind me than I do ahead of me. And so for me, it was that decision that I wanted to be happy. My grandmother lived to 102. My mother lived to 96. So I have longevity in my family. I want to be happy. And so I had a job that brought me back to the Northeast where I'm from. And that was like the beginning of our one year separation. And he didn't come after me and I didn't want to go back. And so I started the divorce process and reconnected in the meantime with my old boyfriend who I hadn't seen.

31:27What?

31:30I hadn't seen him in 33 years. And we've been together now and we're very, very happy. So there's life on the other side.

31:44Well, thank you for sharing that. Are you seeing more people like that? You, Lori? Yes, definitely. And I think it's hard when you're in the beginning of it to imagine, you know, you never thought, like, I'm going to be with, when I'm 50, when I'm 60, I'm going to be with a new person and live in a new city and, like, do I have a new job and, you know, have this new community. You can't imagine it, and yet what people say is, and I'm so happy and I'm so much more fulfilled in this second part of my life than I ever imagined, even though this wasn't the story that I had written. Yeah, I know. Gabrielle is still not there yet, so.

32:25But you're hearing it. You're hearing it. So Addison. Addison is an editor at Women's Health, and she wrote a piece earlier this year called My Parents Got Divorced When I Was an Adult. Why do I feel so weird now that they've moved on? Addison, what was it like for you? Hi, yes. I still feel very weird about it. Um, but yeah, basically my parents sat my siblings and myself down. I'm the youngest. Um, when I was in my late teen years and they started saying that they were going to be separated, they were waiting to be officially divorced until I moved out of the house. So it was probably a few years later that they officially divorced.

33:02But initially I was really upset and I was shocked, but looking back at it, I know it was the best decision for everyone because they really didn't seem that in love or affectionate growing up. I know something my mom has always said is that she feels bad that she couldn't give us an example of a really in love couple. So of course they both moved on, but something I really held on to was the fact that they both said they were never going to get remarried. And yeah, you guys know what happened. And so, and so they both moved on with one other person after the divorce. Fast forward, they both, my mom ended up marrying the man that she moved on with.

33:45And my dad is now engaged to marry the woman that he moved on with later this month. And so while I am really happy for them, it has been hard grappling with this conflicting identity of being an adult, but also being a child of divorce, because I feel like my grief is somehow invalid. Like I can't be sad because I'm an adult. I'm not a kid anymore. But, um, And this is your parents and this is their life and they should be allowed to have their life. Exactly. And all those things. Exactly. Because I do want them to be happy. But yeah, I don't know. The more therapy I've gone to and conversations that I've had with them, I've realized that my feelings do matter just because I'm an adult.

34:26I'm allowed to be sad even though I am an adult child divorce. So, yeah. Kayla, did you experience any of that? Take the mic. Yeah. Most definitely. It feels so good to hear somebody else say that. Yeah, it's just so disorienting. I don't know what your experience was like exactly, but I felt that our family was like the centerpiece of so much of my life, all of our lives. And it was the place that you go from and come back to and like the springing board for me and my sister. I think we were like 19 and 22 when the divorce happened. And to have that just all of a sudden, And it's like we were talking earlier this morning at breakfast.

35:07I was like, I felt like Sandra Bullock from Gravity. And I'm the adult child. Like, I don't know if I get to have big feelings about this, but I did. And I was just like floating out there like, oh, my gosh. I think, Dr. Brown, we need to talk about that because I think that people think that because you're older, they think everybody's worried about, as you were saying, Susan, earlier, the younger children. But when you're older, they think you should just be okay with it because that's their lives and you're an adult and you understand. And there's actually a name for this. What's it called?

35:40It's called family boundary ambiguity. And it's important to note that it doesn't matter what age you are as a child of divorce, it has consequences. It's so prevalent that it has a name. Yes. And it's this notion of divorce is disruptive to the family system. And it causes us to question who's in and who's out of the family now. Those boundaries become a little bit fuzzy, and we've got to redefine our roles and relationships. And then when our parents repartner, that's yet another transition that we have to respond to and once again renegotiate. How are we going to do family now? Yeah. Who's a family member?

36:16Who's not? And all of that needs to be acknowledged, does it not? Because as you were saying, it's your identity. It's your, for a lot of people, it's their finances. It's a lot, right? Right. And then especially like in this case, when new partners come in and you didn't choose those partners and you may not really want to spend a lot of time with those partners or you may not bond with those partners. And also there's a sense when your parents move on with other partners, there's that, you know, when there's a divorce, there's this grieving process. But when they move on with other partners, there's a finality to it almost that, wow, our family really is different.

36:55You can have all the fantasies in the world about who your family is, and then they're married to other people now. And you, as an adult, are expected to, you know, they have their lives and you have your life. But I think in a lot of ways, because you imagine the future, too, as being we're this one family. This is the home I'm going to go home to. I'm going to have one house. The holidays are going to be with both parents. It feels very different. and people think because you're an adult, we wait until they're adults so that they won't have problems with the divorce. But there are so many issues that come up, but nobody pays attention.

37:33When kids are little, people are really worried about the kids. They pay a lot of attention to, you know, how are the kids doing? How are they adjusting? How are they feeling about it? The kids get to talk about it. And people just don't ask adult children how they're feeling about it. And there's a real role reversal here. I mean, when you're the young adult, you think you're the one who's going to be forming a family, finding a partner, maybe getting married, and instead you're watching your parents date, which is going to be a little painful for a lot of people, right? Like the roles are reversed and they're trying to understand from you, well, how does this online dating thing work?

38:07I haven't been out there in 30-some years. So I think that can be challenging. I have a lot of therapy patients who say, my mom wants me or my dad wants me to help them with their online dating profile. And they're like, ick. I don't want to do that. I think that's scary, though, for couples. Is it not? This whole online dating. Yes. I mean, that is, it's funny because you say that, you know, both your parents said, I'm never getting married again. Okay, I will tell you, it's a rare client who has ever walked into my office saying, can't wait to do that again. You know, so people going through divorce often say they won't do it again.

38:44Yes. But soon after that, the next question is, when can I start dating? And I think there's an aspect of going through the discomfort of divorce that it's such an uncomfortable experience that there are people who think I could settle some of this discomfort with finding a new relationship. I could settle. I'll still have to deal with, you know, all of that. But the future will suddenly look like something that's recognizable and all that. So jumping back into dating tends to be one of the first questions and one of the things that people, whether it's an earlier in life divorce, but definitely a later in life divorce, like what will dating look like for me and how do I get back out and do it?

39:28Not many people have the attitude that you do that I don't need this right now. I like my life how it is, which that's wonderful. That's wonderful. And also not many people have the attitude. Did you immediately think that, oh, my, I'm going to turn this into a wonderful experience and I'm going to. OK, I'm just wondering, did. No, no. At first you cried. First, I cried for a year. Oh, OK. At least. Yeah. I mean, it took a while to get get it back together and be and see like, oh, there's possibility here. And I was really someone that liked to live in possibility. So I woke up, I literally woke up every morning for the first three months and wrote 100 gratitudes every morning just because I had to get my brain going and like a more positive direction.

40:15Lovely. Lovely. And so I did a lot of those. All that spiritual work paid off. It did. Yeah, it did. It was all met. I mean, you know, I just kind of trust in how life unfolds. Yeah. So I put those practices to the test and they work. so. Time for a quick break. Next, even if divorce happens after the kids are grown, it still has an impact on them. Sometimes even more so than when they were younger. We'll meet a man who says his mother's great divorce caused him to have a panic attack. We'll be right back with more of our conversation.

41:02mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Hey, I appreciate you listening and sticking around with us. Let's get back to our conversation about gray divorce. Where's Tremaine? Tremaine, is that you? Okay. Yeah. So my mother and my stepfather have been together for over 20 years. Yeah. So arguably the majority of my life. He's been the father figure at my home. and just this past year as we were talking about grief as well, we had the unexpected loss of my grandmother. So already in navigating that and my mother growing closely together, our connection grew and our communication grew and she let me in that she was working towards leaving my stepfather, which threw me for a loop, especially as an adult child.

41:51I've just turned 34. I had a panic attack for the first time ever in my life. I never knew really what that felt like because I think I was living in this space of almost a liberation. I think as me as a child, watching a marriage that never always made the most sense to me and never seeing in a household the love that I thought a household deserved and what my mother deserved. I think I lived in this space of working through acceptance that that was what that marriage was going to look like and that was what the dynamics were going to be. and so when it happened, it kind of threw me for a loop that that was happening but immediately I also knew, as we talk about emotionally, spiritually, financially, what that was also going to do for my mother.

42:39So I made the decision this year and by this year, just last month, I moved from Seattle, Washington, which is where I've been living for the last few years, to move back to the East Coast so that my mother could live with me to nap. Thank you.

42:54Good son. Thank you. Good son. You're not going to be there forever for her. No, we've had that conversation as well. Mom, let me wean you from this. Boundaries. I have a life coach. I have a therapist. We have talked around our boundaries. But as someone who was raised by a single mother before she met my stepfather, I've watched her be a very resilient woman for so long. And so this was my opportunity to come back home and help build that resilience. So not once have I had a regret about it. I'm really excited for what that will do for her. My mother's also still younger, right? She had me younger.

43:28She'll be 56 this month. I probably won't be helping her on apps. I'm not there yet. Okay. But she's actively moving in with me this month and next month. So we are... Do you have a question for one of our experts? I do. Lori, I think, especially for me, navigating a lot of newness for us, right? And for so long being the child, right? And now we are shifting dynamics. The child is now the provider, right? She's living with me. I'm covering a lot of things financially so that she can stabilize to where she needs to be. That also shifts our dynamics a lot right now. And so I think for me, as I'm navigating this, I want to 100 % as I continue to learn who she is as a woman and not just my mother.

44:09How do I continue to navigate those boundaries with her and support her in a way that she continues to still have that autonomy and she can still grow while she's also being supported and led a lot by me right now? Yeah, that's such a great question because your roles are reversed right now. So now you're almost like the parent taking care of the child. And it's one thing, you know, as a parent, your goal is to have your kids become independent. Like you don't want your kids living in your basement, right? You don't want your kids living there forever. And you're saying the same thing about with your mom, that this is a temporary situation.

44:43I want to help her build the skills and create the support and the community in the adult sphere. and I mean her age group, adult sphere, so that she can thrive. And you are also doing something great, which is taking care of yourself. You're saying, I've got a coach, I've got a therapist, I'm thinking about boundaries, I'm thinking about the time limitedness of this. So you're not doing this blindly. And I think it's a beautiful gesture that you're doing, but I think you want to be very on target about how long is this going to go on? What specifically does she need in place in terms of infrastructure, whether that's finances, community, mental health support, whatever she needs, and wean her as a parent does because you don't want her to become dependent on you.

45:34And you said, you know, I'm getting to know her as a woman, but she's still your mom and you're still her son and that hierarchy still exists and you don't want to dissolve that completely. Okay. Susan, Dr. Brown, and Lori, can you give us your final analysis, your thoughts on this? You know, I would say this is the time, and this may help your mom, so I'll say this. This is the time if you're going into a later life divorce where there are so many things going on, but having a strategy for that beyond, for that future that we've heard people talk about having a plan of how you're going to get there.

46:16That is probably the single most important aspect so that you can put in place what Lori was just talking about, the financial that you need, the emotional support that she needs so that your mom's able to move forward in a better way. Strategy. And overall, everybody needs their own strategy. You're also saying, yeah. Yeah. Everybody thinks they fall back on what the law says should happen. And so, yeah, the number one thing you would tell somebody if they were coming into your office today would be. Is know where you're going and what you want that future to look like, or at least start to think about it.

46:51It sounds like that you both have done that, right? And started to think about what the beyond should look like. And then when you're going through the divorce, when you're negotiating your settlement, as you're making very major decisions about your future, you're making them with that goal in sight to move you forward with your strategy toward that goal. I think that's incredibly important. Yeah, for all families. All families. Yeah. Not just you, Tremaine. No. For all families. Everyone here. Dr. Brown, as I was saying earlier, you helped coin this phrase, gray divorce. So what are your final words here?

47:30I would say that, you know, divorce is a process and adjustment takes time. Even though divorce can be stressful, letting go and moving on can be very freeing. Yes, as we've seen here. As we've seen here today. As we've seen here and as we're going to see in the future. Yeah, yeah. We're with you. Gabriela, we're with you.

47:57All right, Miss, maybe you should talk to somebody. Well, I think that people going through a divorce should talk to somebody. I think it's really important. A lot of people feel like, oh, people don't want to hear this or I've talked about it so much. But people do, you know, pick your audience well. So, you know, whether that's a therapist or whether that's a trusted family member, whoever it is, you do need to talk about it. Also, I think this idea of having a plan, action begets action. So sometimes you feel so paralyzed in the unknown, the new story, the different path that you just, you don't know what direction to go in.

48:35Every small little step. So it's these tiny steps. What can you do today? Something small that might bring you joy. It could be, I'm going to call a friend. I'm going to take a walk. I'm going to talk to my attorney because that will make me feel more settled. is there one small action that you can take every day? The tiniest thing. Today it was, I'm going to the Oprah podcast. Today it's, I'm going to the Oprah podcast, right? And not only am I going to the Oprah podcast, but I am going to meet other people who have been through it and have come out the other side, and that's very eye-opening.

49:13So these small actions and intentions and asking yourself, what can I do now that I couldn't do before, I think is really helpful too. You don't have to have the answers yet, but what was this passion that I kind of put on the back burner? What was this thing that I wanted to do? Am I happy in my career? Do I like where I live? You know, what are the things that bring me joy and thinking about how can I bring more of that again? Small doses into my life. You have to combine that with yes, you're in pain. Nobody wants to ignore the pain, but you can do again the both and is there Well, I know everybody experiences the grief and the pain differently, but how do you know when you've wallowed in it too long?

49:56I mean, I thought what you were saying earlier about being able to get out of bed. You know, having children is actually a reason to get out of bed. And for some people who don't, it's hard to get out of bed. How do you know when it's now it's time? Girl, get up out of bed. The thing about grief and divorce is that, yes, it feels like a death, but the difference is that the person is still around. That's right. You can run into them at the Safeway. You might run into them. You might see them on social media. You still will hear about them through your adult children. I'm going to. You know, they're still there, like being haunted by a ghost.

50:28And so there's a feeling of, you know, I should be through this, this grief. And the grief, it comes in waves. I'm looking at all the people going, yes. Been through that, yes. Right, and so people think, you know, it was doing so well. And then I was at the Safeway and I ran into this person in the produce section. And that really ruined my day, right? No. And the person said, how are you? Right. And how are you? Exactly. And so you might have a moment where, okay, you're back there, but you don't have to drown in it. It was like, that was a moment. And now I'm going to move forward in my day.

51:07So it's okay to kind of go back and forth with the feelings just because you still, It might be two years later and you have a bad experience. It's like real grief. It's okay. It's like when you're grieving the loss of someone who's passed. And to know that that's normal and expected. And just because you feel it in one moment doesn't mean you're going to feel it the next. I like to say feelings are like weather systems. They blow in, they blow out. It's rainy, it's stormy, it's sunny. That's what grief is like. Wow. Wow. Thank you so much. Thank all of you for your advice. Dr. Brown's research can be found at bgsu.edu, and you can find Susan Guthrie's podcast, Divorce and Beyond, something you should start listening to wherever you podcast.

51:55And Lori Gottlieb's book, of course, is Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. It's available wherever books are sold. Audience, thank you for sharing your experiences with us. thank you see you next week thank you you can subscribe to the oprah podcast on youtube and follow us on spotify apple podcasts or wherever you listen i'll see you next week thanks everybody

52:26you want to get your backyard summer ready but you don't want to break the bank Wayfair gets it. Planning on dining al fresco or relaxing poolside? Wayfair has everything you need to prep your space. Shop now and save up to 70 % off during Wayfair's 4th of July clearance. Score huge deals on outdoor furniture, area rugs, and more. We're talking thousands of products for every style and budget. Plus, surprise flash deals July 6th. Don't wait. Shop Wayfair's 4th of July clearance now through July 6th at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.