Oprah and Bruce Willis' Wife Emma on Finding Strength, Hope & Yourself in Caregiving

29:42He is so present. He is in the here and now, and it's actually really beautiful to witness. You know, I think, um, I don't like it. I don't love it, but you know, he is, he is in his body. He is, um, he is present in his body and he's not thinking about what's to come. You know, I am. You are. I'm thinking about that all the time. Okay. Um, you write on page 97 that your stepdaughter scouted said, grief is the price we pay for loving someone so deeply. And I think it's really profound that you are saying that you are in the grieving process now. I mean, I know someone who cared for someone for four years, and then they were afraid to, after the person died, go on with their life.

30:35And their therapist said to them, but you've already been grieving for the past four years. Yeah, I've been grieving for a long time, for a very long time. It's not linear, you know. There's some days that I'm feeling okay and other days that I'm not, but it's a long process and it's very hard to lose someone right in front of your eyes. Can you explain ambiguous loss? It was coined by Dr. Pauline Boss. and it means that the person is physically in front of you, but psychologically not there. So that is a term that she's coined and it explains exactly what happens to people and their loved ones when they're experiencing dementia.

31:24Your person is physically in front of you, but not psychologically there. Yeah, and I think it's also important too, what your book reminded me is that people are so judgmental who are not in situations and they say things like, Like, well, how can you say you're grieving him when he's still here? At least he's alive. You have him, you know, and that makes you feel what? That makes me feel worse. It makes me feel like I'm not seen, dismissed. You know, a lot of people have opinions without an experience. And that's what I have seen and learned. And especially because, you know, we have come out as we have, you know.

32:03I'm sure a lot of people will have opinions about this interview and this book because they don't have the experience. Aren't you glad you did come out, though? Yeah, I did. Because trying to keep it a secret and whatever people would then say, not actually knowing the truth, isn't it better to have the truth out? Yes, it was. for us, it was really important to share what Bruce had, what he was experiencing, because I was so isolated and I wasn't putting the help and support we needed around our family because I was so scared that, I don't know, someone would talk. Someone would, you know, that's, I was so worried about that.

32:46So it came to a point where it was like, nope, we, this is a must. We need to come out. I also, you know, I didn't want my kids to think that we need to talk about their dad's diagnosis in hushed tones. Like that wasn't going to happen. I wanted to remove the stigma around it. And we were going to talk about this diagnosis. And we were, the kids were going to see that like the reach that their father has. He is so beloved. I'm sure. A pouring of affection. We were going to go out and we were going to talk about it and raise awareness. Coming up, acclaimed actress Demi Moore, who shares three grown daughters with Bruce Willis, will talk with Demi next.

33:29We're back with Emma Heming-Willis, wife and now caregiver to actor Bruce Willis, who suffers from frontotemporal dementia. Bruce's ex-wife and mother to three of his grown children, Demi Moore, is still very much present in their blended family life. Demi I know that you were aware that my team told you that we spoke to Demi Moore recently on this podcast and had the chance to ask her a few questions about the book and the family's experience. And this is what she said. Oh, great. What has it been like for you to watch Emma navigate becoming a caregiver to Bruce? There is no roadmap for how to deal with this.

34:11And, you know, the the the and obviously being the ex-wife, even though our family is very connected, is a is is an interesting position. And so much fell on Emma to really figure this whole thing out. And the most beautiful thing, and she talks about this in the book, was recognizing the importance for caregivers that they have to take care of themselves. And that if they don't put that time into making sure that they're okay, that they then can't show up for anyone else. And, you know, I have so much compassion for Emma in this, being a young woman. There's no way that anybody could have anticipated, you know, where this was going to go.

35:05And I really think she's done a masterful job. She has been so dedicated to, you know, forging the right path. She's had, you know, equal amounts of fear and strength and courage in navigating this. And I'm really, you know, I think that this book is going to really be very helpful for a lot of people who are walking through this. Especially caregivers. You're right. Especially caregivers. How has it been for you personally to watch this moment, someone you have shared, you know, much of your life with and children with? suffer from this disease? I find it's difficult. It's hard to see somebody who was so, you know, vibrant and strong and so directed shift into this other parts of themselves.

36:04But, you know, my particular perspective is, one, I really always say it's so important just to meet them where they're at. Yeah. You don't have an expectation of them needing to be who they were or who you want them to be. And when you do that, I find that there is an incredible sweetness and something that's soft and tender and loving. And perhaps it is more playful and childlike in certain sense because of, you know, how much more caretaking they need. and really the most important place for me is showing up and being present, just being present because if you project where it's going, it only creates anxiety.

36:59If you replay where it was and what you've lost, it only creates anxiety and grief. And so when you stay present, there is so much and there's still so much of him there. And it may not always be verbal, but it is beautiful given the givens. Thanks, Demi, again. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. But she's right. It's about seeing there is beauty there, right? As hard as it is to lose someone that we love, we are able to tap into what is. I want to go back to this point because one of the main reasons I wanted to talk to Emma today is for those of you who are going through it. I want those of you who are caregivers to feel a sense of validation in knowing that you're not alone, number one.

37:52And the other thing is to understand so fully that you can't get through it alone. You have to get help. So can you tell us again after you, what the process of getting help was for you and what that looked like in your life. The process was realizing that I wasn't being the best parent I could be. I wasn't being the best caregiver I could be to Bruce. I was run down. It was realizing that I needed, I needed help, but I also needed someone to give me permission. And Bruce's neurologist gave me permission to think and consider help. And I hope that caregivers get that in this book. Yeah. That they understand that you don't have to do this alone.

38:46You shouldn't have to do this alone. I think if you get this book, read this book, that's what you will get. Because that's what I came away with. wow, the first thing to do is to get yourself help. And no matter where you are in the process, you've probably already waited too long to actually get help. And that's what all the experts say. Yeah. People wait too long to bring in help, way too long. And that narrative needs to shift. And we need to be given permission that it's okay. We're not a failure. It's important to ask for help. And it's not your burden to have to bear alone. And I think what you shared earlier, Emma, I mean, about people wanting to do something but not knowing what to do.

39:26Look at your life and see what are the things that need to be done, whether it's picking up groceries, whether it's going to the pharmacy, all the things that are needed. So when you offer yourself and help to someone, I remember this is a long time ago. Maria Shriver's mother was in the hospital and had been in the hospital for a long time. And I did the thing that you say do not do. I was like, well, if you need any help, let me know. and Maria said, don't ask me what you can do to help me. Just help me. Just show up. Just show up. The thing to do is to just show up. And I learned from that, that even if you just go and sit with someone.

40:05Oh my goodness. Just to be there with someone. Yes. Not knowing what to say, not knowing what it is I can do, just showing up makes a difference. The journey is so isolating and we isolate ourselves and connection is so important. you know, finding your friends, finding your family, but also as a caregiver, finding your community. You know, who are your people that understand? And it's so much easier to find a community now because for your specific ailment or disease, there's an online resource for it. It's very important to get a diagnosis. I think that is key in all of this. It's key because, as you'll see when you read The Unexpected Journey, not all dementias are the same.

40:46Not all dementias are the same. So not all support groups are going to be the same. And not all support groups. So it's important to find the association that is associated to the disease that your loved one is experiencing. And that way, you know, for me, it's the association of frontotemporal degeneration. They have been a lifeline for me. You know, they've connected me with resources. You know, they've connected me with other caregivers because FTD strikes young. And, you know, usually these families have young children. and so it's been beautiful like to be able to have that connection to be able to sit down across from someone and just they get you, they see you, they understand it.

41:28You don't have to explain it, over explain it. It's very important to find your community. That has been a lifeline for me. Speaking of explaining and over explaining, I think you do a great job of breaking down in this book how to talk to your children and you talk to different, you talk to your children, depending on what ages they are. What you say to a five-year-old, you don't say necessarily use the same language you'd be using with a 10-year-old and 14 and up is something very different. Yeah. And I didn't know that. I mean, that's why I brought specialists in to sort of help me navigate that.

42:04You interviewed and talked to over 25 experts I heard writing this book. I did. Yeah. And these were all people that sort of, you know, helped me and I gathered all this information to be able to share with the next And for our children, Mabel and Evelyn were eight and 10 when Bruce was diagnosed. So they were very young. And what I learned is that I told them about the disease and then just gave them just bite-sized information. That was right. That was age appropriate for them. And if they wanted to know more information, then I would give them more information. And they couldn't pronounce it, so they called it Fantastic Turtles Dancing.

42:45That's right. Yes. Yeah, FTD. Yeah. And, you know, we had this vision of like, oh, these fantastic turtles dancing in their dad's head. And, you know, it was sweet and funny. And, but yeah, so it's important that what I've told them that if anything changes with their dad and his progression, I'll let them know. You know, I don't like to give them too much information, but it's important to communicate. I communicate with my kids a lot and I'm very honest with them. You know, you think you want to, you want to protect your kids. So is the way this disease works that you have periods of where things seemingly are okay for a while and then there's another drop or decline and something else deteriorates?

43:34Yes, absolutely. I think anyone going through dementia understands that like you have times where things are very stable and then the next shoe drops. And then you have to figure it out, what to do, how to support. And, you know, we're really in, we're in one of those phases right now where things have been stable for a really long time. And now it's just, there's been a subtle shift and I'm out of my mind because of it. And that's why I'm so happy I have this book because I go back to the book and be like, what do I do when I'm out of my mind? Oh yes, these are my tools. These are the resources that I can go back to.

44:13You know, I wrote that book for the next caregiver, but I am a caregiver and I am a person that needs that book and I need the reminders. So, yeah, I'm a little disconnected from my body and my brain right now, because even though I'm sitting here, my mind is with Bruce and how he's doing. Understandable. That's understandable. I thank you for taking the time out of your very busy day to join my conversation with Emma Hemming-Willis. Millions of Americans are caring for a loved one. We have caregivers who have some great questions for Emma. I think you'll find them helpful. That's next. I so appreciate and value you joining us here on the Oprah podcast.

44:51I'm talking with Emma Hemming-Willis, whose wife and also caregiver to Bruce Willis and mother to their two children. We're joined by other caregivers around the country who have questions for Emma. Let's get back to it. Some of our podcast listeners wanted to talk with you. Brenda joins us from Colorado, and her husband, Kevin, was diagnosed with frontotemporal dementia just one year ago, correct? Yes, that is correct. Yeah. You are now his primary caregiver? I am. We are exactly like Emma said. We're heading into a phase where I'm going to need a little more help. My husband actually has the behavioral variant of frontal temporal dementia.

45:34And it started showing up in his work in about 2020. He was a country club manager, very buttoned up, professional, amazing leader. And he started blowing off meetings and his behavior changed dramatically. But it wasn't all at once. I thought like his humor became kind of raunchy and inappropriate. He was missing his own meetings. He got feedback from his board and didn't really care. He wasn't, you know, working on himself like he normally would. He was eventually terminated. And then we got the diagnosis of mild cognitive decline, which I think is pretty common. But I even knew at that neurologist appointment that it was not mild.

46:29And then he went to drive a school bus, which was kind of his dream, his retirement dream, even though he was not supposed to retire yet. And a year later, I attended a meeting with him because I could tell things were not good. And he was fired for a whole list of grievances. He was combative, which is, he's never had a combative day in his entire life. He was using profanity. He was late for every route. It was just literally unbelievable. And I gave that letter to our neurologist who did another MRI. His first MRI was clear. And then two years later, another MRI did show deterioration in the executive functioning.

47:16and they diagnosed him as BVFTD. So that's the behavioral portion, the behavioral portion. And how is he now? Well, I always say he's 20 % still my husband. He's 80 % an alien. He has a very different sense of humor. Part of the behavioral variant is they lose their empathy. so you can't if you tell him your problem or our son would who's 27 would like say a work problem he would make jokes about it and he's lost his his empathy his um uh eating behavior has changed dramatically he's obsessed with carbs which is very common for that you know m &ms and all kinds of stuff and you can't really he has a kind of a hair trigger temper now i've learned very quickly to work around that and not trigger but otherwise he thinks he's retired and he's happy much of what emma said validated me i feel seen and heard and i'm incredibly grateful the question i have for Emma is how do you deal with the loneliness?

48:36Like I've never been lonely a day in my life, but I am lonely now because, you know, just like you explained, he's there, but not there. He's my partner, but not. How do I deal with the loneliness? You know, I think where I am lucky is that I have young children and I am always busy with them. I am parenting, I am caregiving. I am not sometimes connected to my body so that I don't have to feel those feelings. The loneliness, it's there. And I will say that I have habituated to it. I have gotten used to it. I know that's not an answer that you want to hear, but what I will say, the importance is, again, finding your people, finding your community, you know, so that you can talk about these things and that you're not just ruminating on it.

49:47that I think it's so important to just vocalize these feelings and these emotions. Because you will meet other people that are like, yes, I am lonely too. You know, I'm sometimes just stuff my feelings. That's not healthy. I know that. But I think it's really important to be able to verbalize. As I tell my children, better out than in. It is so important to talk about your feelings and be heard and be validated about your feelings. So right now, Brenda, you are the, you said you were the primary caregiver. Do you have any help at all? Well, he can do a lot on his own, like dishes and he watches TV.

50:32But I do need to come to the office. And so next week, I just interviewed caregivers and I found an agency that is going to send a mail because, like I said, Kevin has some inappropriate humor. And that person is going to take him to Botanic Gardens because I just feel like he's deteriorating because I'm not there during the day, at least four days a week. and so um and he's starting to make some bad decisions the oven under cooking food and um and so i think can i just stop you for a moment can i stop everyone there's an example you use in the book about i don't remember who said it about could you leave your loved one alone in the house if there was a fire would they be able to get out isn't do you remember writing that yeah no absolutely i mean those are the things that you have to think about it comes down to safety.

51:27Yeah. If he were left alone in the house right now and there was a fire, would he know what to do? I believe he would, but we are in a place of progression right now. And so I'm not going to take any chances. I think we've been fine up until now, but I'm just seeing some warning signs that we need more help. His buddies come and get him and golf with him, which is a whole, a whole thing, very patient, wonderful guys. So he's not alone four days a week. And I, of course, you know, try to, he sleeps quite a bit. He sleeps like sometimes 15 hours. And the neurologist said that's when the brain cleanses itself and to let him do that.

52:16And so that reminds me of like when my baby was little, right? When they're sleeping, you don't worry as much. I'm happy to hear that you have friends that are taking your husband out to play golf. I think that's beautiful. And I'm also happy to hear that you are interviewing formal caregivers. And I think with this disease, it's so important to one, you have to get out of the denial. You have to realize that it's happening. You have to understand that it is progressive and you need to be a couple of steps ahead of it. And I think that's where I have found a lot of comfort is to be a few steps ahead, you know, to really educate myself about the disease because knowledge is a big stress reliever.

53:00Yeah. And when you find your people, as you mentioned in the book, you find your, I think, was it somebody named Fran? Franny. Fran. Franny. There was a few steps ahead of you. Then that allows you to know what's ahead and also to begin to prepare yourself, prepare yourself. Yes. Absolutely. And I just want to express my gratitude, obviously, to Oprah and all that you've given and to Emma for going public, because from the day you did, I've been tracking you and now I can just read your book and I don't have to Google you constantly. But it has been a huge, huge validation for me because it's not Alzheimer's.

53:42and God bless the people that have to deal with Alzheimer's, but it is different. It's different. It strikes younger. Yeah. Thank you, Brenda. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. So Erica is joining us from Texas. Erica was a guest on our podcast with Esther Perel a while back. Erica, good to see you again. Hi. Good to see you too. Thank you so much for having me. You were wearing pink today. It was green the last time. I remember you told us that you are the caretaker for your mother. And so I asked the producers if you could zoom in for this conversation. How has being a caregiver impacted you?

54:19Oh, my goodness. First of all, thank you so much, Emma, for sharing your story. Thank you, Oprah. It has impacted me in a way that I never could have imagined. Being an only child years ago, my mother went through so many different things. and I used to say to myself, oh my gosh, you know, I've got to prepare myself financially, health-wise, because I got a feeling that I'm going to have to take care of my mom one day. And she used to always say that. She used to always say, I'm coming to live with you, coming to live with you guys. And I'd be like, oh no, you're not. Because the relationship was strange.

54:57It wasn't a good relationship at all. And so I got a phone call about eight years ago that my mom's behavior was weird in another state. I got in the car the next day and drove, and what I saw was shocking. I had just spoken to her. She didn't recognize me. She still had on her Sunday dress, and it was Monday. Everything was disheveled. I rushed her to the hospital, and they said, your mom has dementia. And I'm like, dementia? What do you mean? And two weeks later, we had to figure out what to do. And they said she can't live alone. And I turned to my husband and I said, I don't know what to do.

55:37We were in the middle of retiring, still raising kids. As Emma was saying, I had a son that I was homeschooling. And he was just getting ready to go into ninth grade. And we had to bring her with us. And it was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. We had to move her in. And so that same kind of behavior that I experienced as a young person, as a teen, it just seemed to escalate in our home. So like Emma said, it was hard to tell where the, where the, my mother. The disease. Exactly. I mean, she would say things and they would be like, oh, that's the disease. But I'm like, she said that to me when I was 16.

56:16And it just became really, really bad. And I don't want, I don't know how to say this, but she's very religious. to the point that it's kind of, it makes it hard because everything is about, you know, she doesn't have dementia. God healed her. Everybody else is just not believing. She's healed. God brought her here to, you know, be a blessing to me and help me. I literally just, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. And so what did you do? What did you do? I just took care of her. I just brought her in, took her to the found doctors. I came to found a neurologist, got testing, and they told me she had Lewy body dementia with mild Parkinson's.

57:03To my surprise, they put her on hospice in my home. So I had nurses coming, chaplains coming, and I was cooking for her. I was giving her her medicine. All of this happened within a month's time, and that was eight years ago. and it was so bad over about a year and a half, I had to lie to get her out of my home because it literally almost broke me. My husband found me in the closet, just curled up. And he's like, what's going on? I said, I feel like my life is over. I feel like I'm being, at that time, I said, I feel like I'm being punished because she was of the mindset, you honor your mother.

57:40You know, the Bible says, honor your mother and you're not honoring me and you got to do this for me. and I remember driving her to my doctor's appointment and I just could not figure I said what is going on with you and she just looked at me she just screamed you owe me she said I've done everything for you I took care of you as a child now you owe me and I went oh wow and so it's been it's been difficult but she's she lives on her own now and as Emma said if I didn't have the resources to help me. So you moved her out of your home is what you did. You moved her out of your home in order to save your own sanity.

58:20Yes. Save my marriage, my relationship with my kids. Like Emma said, I stopped almost being a parent. It was like, okay, I hear you having trouble in school, but wait a minute, I got to take grandma to the doctor. And it was just so much now, eight years later, now we can have the conversation. And I just said, I'm so sorry. I didn't know what to do, how to do it. And I did find groups. I have caregivers now that come. They take her to the doctor. They take her to church. They take her. Right now, she's at a hair appointment. But it's like when I talk to her sometimes, it's me that should be doing that.

58:56And she says, well, you don't take me anywhere. And you're just not a good daughter. And it's just so hard to, you know. Are you letting that guilt get to you? I did. I did. And thank God for my husband and my adult kids. Now they're like, mom, you know, you've done everything. There is nothing else. And I think the biggest piece is, you know, we talk about the old generation now, that entitlement. It's like, my question is, how do you reconcile when you have a parent that feels entitled? and that's the part, just the guilt of, okay, I'm doing this. And she'll say, well, why didn't you take me to get my hair done?

59:33And I would say, well, mom, I had something going on. Oh, what about me? It's always about you and it's so hard. It's like, okay, is that dementia? Is that my mom? Yeah, it feels like whatever is going on with the disease has exacerbated whatever the relationship was before. So, Emma, what do you want to say to Erica? I mean, I couldn't imagine what it would be like to be caring for someone that you have a complicated relationship with. You know, I can't imagine what a burden that must be for you. I am so I'm sorry. I am really sorry to hear that. And I can hear the guilt and the trauma and all of this that this has brought to you.

1:00:14I think it's so, you know, she's clearly in her disease. I know that something that helped me was also like learning and, you know, it was learning to separate my husband from his disease. That, you know, what he is doing or saying is not him. It is his disease. And that brought me some comfort. But I'm also really happy to hear that you knew how to care for yourself. You knew what needed to be done. After being curled up in the closet. It took being curled up in the closet to get there. But at least you got there. Yeah. You got there. You're a mother and you're a mother first, you know. And but I'm really happy to hear that you knew how to care for yourself.

1:01:01And you did the right thing that was right for you and your family. And I think one of the things that you make clear in the unexpected journey is that a lot of people have this guilt. because perhaps maybe you had a loved one who said, you know, I never want to be put in a home or I never want to be sent away or I never wanted to know or I would never, never do that. I think when you get to the point where there is nothing else to be done, then you have to make that the decision that is the best for yourself. And one of the things you say in the book is that what people are really saying is I don't want to be abandoned.

1:01:40I don't want to be left alone. I don't want to be forgotten. But if the best care is putting your mother in a situation where she will have other caretakers and you will be able to carry on with other portions of your life, then you have done the best you could do. You have done the best you could do. And her needs now are being met 100 % of the time. I mean, I think people don't understand that, that our needs are never met. Like our persons, even when we are caregiving, if we are not, we're not qualified for this job. Sometimes the disease goes beyond what we know how to care for. And, you know, you're just thrust into this role.

1:02:26And I think that now your mother's needs are being met so that your needs could be met. And I think that one of the things that you get when you read The Unexpected Journey is even though there is deep love and deep compassion and honor for your loved one, it doesn't mean that you have to sacrifice your entire life. That is not what is required in order to carry on. I think you've helped a lot of care. That's why I say I think this is going to be so liberating for caregivers because if you can get the help, you should get the help. And the first thing you say over and over and over in this book is that get yourself the help.

1:03:07And if there comes a time, I mean, there will probably come a time when you won't be able to do all the things that you wanted to do for Bruce yourself and you need other people. Have you brought in other people to help? Yeah, this disease takes a team. And, you know, I think that so many people are doing this on their own. Even if that means him not living with the rest of the family? This takes a team. Sometimes it means that you have to look at your house. You have to look at, is it safe for someone to be living in this house? Is it safe for me? And is it safe for our children? Like you, it is a very personal decision and it comes down to safety.

1:03:48You know, it comes down to making the right decision for you and your family and for your person. And you did that, Erica. That is what you did. I had to, and it's so interesting. My grandmother suffered through dementia. She was in a nursing home the last 10 years of her life. And I watched my mother run herself into the ground, just doing everything. And I think part of that, that's what she expected me to do. But I looked at my body, my everything, and then going through what I was going through, I was going to kill myself. And I just said, I cannot do that. And like she said, they need their mom.

1:04:24My husband needs his wife. And I decided to do that so that I could live a longer, productive, healthier life and not end up like my mom. Thank you. Thank you again. Thanks for talking to us again. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. So I've seen online that there is this outpouring of love and support from Rufus, from all of his devoted fans, and they're all over the world. And you write this about what you believe his legacy will be. You say his legacy will live on through our family. And you even say that even if he is known for this disease, that will be okay with you. Yeah. Just as, you know, Lou Gehrig's disease is known as ALS.

1:05:07I think if FTD is known as the Bruce Willis disease, I think that he would be okay with that. Because I think that it puts a face to this disease. it will bring in, you know, more research, more funding for a disease that really we have, we have nothing, you know, people are getting diagnosed too late to be able to go into the trials that are available. So, you know, the awareness piece of this is so important. You know, I learned from one of these, one of the experts in my book, Dr. Bruce Miller, that, you know, his specialty is FTD. And he says, you know, when you notice someone in their 40s, 50s and 60s, when they should be stable and participating in the world, but if you start noticing that they are not who they used to be, something is off, that is a change in the brain.

1:06:00And that needs to be looked at. And I didn't know that early on. And I think the awareness piece is so key because we want people to be diagnosed early so that they could receive the right treatment so that families aren't broken up in the midst of it. The other thing you say is his legacy will live on through our family, his work in film and music and the millions of lives he's touched. But I believe he's leaving something even more profound, something that will ripple far beyond Hollywood. His journey is shaping the conversation around FTD, dementia, and caregiving. Shifting the narrative in ways I hope will soften the experience for others walking this path.

1:06:47That means you, Erica, and you, Brenda, and all of you who are listening to us. I know Bruce's legacy won't just be about the art he created. It will be about how he loved and how that love carries on through us. beautifully said. You co-founded the organization Make Time Wellness. What is your most important message to caretakers? That you've got to take care of your health and you have to take care of your brain. You know, your brain is such an important asset. You know, I think that when you see someone that you love start losing parts of their brain, it really, you know, makes you sort to sit up and think, okay, what can I do for myself?

1:07:31And, you know, taking care of my brain, then I'm looking after my whole body. We have to look after ourselves. We have to put ourselves first, because if we don't, we will not be able to sustain this and we will not be able to show up for the person that we love. Thank you. Thank you, Oprah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Emma Hemming-Willis for sharing your unexpected journey with us. The book, The Unexpected Journey is available September 9th, anywhere books are sold. And if you're a caretaker or you know somebody who is, I'm telling you, when you think, oh, what could I do for them? This would be the book to give to a friend who is a caregiver.

1:08:15It's a vital book to have on your nightstand and to share with others who are going through it. My thanks to Brenda and again to you, Erica, for sharing your own caregiving experience. And all of you who are out there doing this daily, feeling unseen, unvalidated, know that you are not alone. And this book is a big validation. Thank you for taking the time to be with us today. Go well. So much. Thank you. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.

1:08:51Thank you.