Oprah and Gary Zukav: What Is Your Soul’s Purpose?

29:07He's a nice person. My God, you can count on him. every time you ask for something, he's going to drop what he's doing and he's going to come to you. So what happens is I found out once you are that person, they keep coming back. They keep coming back because your intention was directly sending the message to them that, oh, I'm the guy you can call on and I'm going to immediately say yes. And when you are that guy, you always get called on. So you have to think about, I now do not leave my house without thinking about what is the reason I'm going to do it? Am I actually going to be able to be of service?

29:44Is it going to mean something to me? Or am I just doing it to please the other person? Well said. And I started to, through the book, I started to be able to look back on these patterns and realize that a lot of times I had resentment when I did these things, when I got there. You do. You do. You have resentment, which defies the whole reason for doing it. because then that resentment that you're feeling is going to come back to you in another form. You resent it because you did it for the wrong reason. That is the most important reason to look at what is the pure intention so that you do it out of respect for the other person.

30:23You genuinely do want to help the other person and you're going to sacrifice your own time to do it. And because you actually want to do it. But if you do it for any other reason, you will end up resenting it. How many times have you been at an event where you just go, I don't even know. I don't even know what I'm doing here. I don't even know. Too many to count. Too many. What in the world am I doing here? Right? I understand. And so the book just really helped me see that the separation between my personality and my soul. And, you know, I wanted to ask you. so I'll go through the audio book and I'll come out sharp and for two weeks, you know, I'll have intent with everything that I do, but it slowly starts to drift away.

31:13And so I will go back to the book and it'll drift away. And so my question to you, you were 25 years ago and you're still holding, you know, true to your direction. How do you maintain, you know, once you get into the groove or not people pleasing and stay close to your attention because my personality is strong. I haven't been able to get my personality to align with my soul. So how do you maintain that? Well, here's the thing that you have to be able to answer the question and you're not going to be able to do it here now. But here's the question I want you to think about, Todd. Why are you really here?

31:51Why are you really here? What is the reason for the life of this human incarnated in the flesh as chef description of what you do, Todd Anderson. What is the reason for that? And be about the business of serving that reason and that reason only. That is why you're here. I don't know what that answer is, but let every step you take move you into the direction of what that answer is. So there is a thread that connects the dots of all of our lives. For me, that thread is inspiration. Since I was a little girl speaking in the church, Kosciuszko, Mississippi, people were saying to my grandmother, Hattie Mae, that girl is a talking child.

32:39That child sure can talk. So I have used my voice as a form of inspiration and inspiring people since I can remember knowing how to speak. For you, maybe it would be food since you are a chef, using food as a form of an offering and a gift to people, letting people see and feel your spirit, your love, your kindness, your grace through your food. Whatever that is that you've come to serve and be of service to, let every step only move you in the direction of that. And all the other stuff is other people's stuff. Be very clear about why you are here and what it It is your mission to do. And don't get yourself, don't allow yourself to be taken off the course in other people's business and other people's thoughts and other people's stuff.

33:32That's what I would say. That's how I stay on course for myself. Understood. And I thank you for that. And I think something I struggle with is I understand this, but my personality sometimes may put guilt on me. And I know that that is, you know, of the outer realm that I can't control. But making me feel selfish for putting myself first or putting my business or my family first. And, you know, sometimes I struggle with, you know, feeling, you know. That is just because you've been taught to believe that you're supposed to put yourself behind everyone else. The real truth is you're supposed to put yourself first so that your cup runneth over.

34:17and you then have enough to give to everybody else. You're not supposed to be giving from your point of dearth. You're supposed to be giving from your point of abundance. And that is, you will get that with the more you practice it. You know, it took me a while because, you know, I come from challenged, you know, poverty circumstances. And so I grew up with that whole poverty mentality. And so it took me a while to doing the real spiritual work on myself to get to the point to know that I deserve to live in a space of abundance. And the more abundant I am, the more I am willing to share that abundance with other people.

34:58Let the lessons continue for you. There are so many. And, you know, I could read, I've been reading that book for over 20 years. And I could read it again today and find something completely inspiring for myself. and I know that is true as you continue the journey. Congratulations. It's so exciting the way the world opens up. That's one of my favorite lessons too. Your personality comes to serve the energy of your soul. That's one of my favorite. Your intention is at one with cause and effect is my other. That's the one that guides my life. So thank you. Understood. Understood. Have a great day.

35:37Have a great life. Thank you. Same to you. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Thank you, Chef Todd. I love that you're taking the time out of your day to join me for this episode of the Oprah Podcast. We're taking a deep dive into the spiritual lessons of Gary Zukav, bestselling author and one of the greatest thought leaders of our time. Coming up, the story of baby Ryan, whose parents appeared on the Oprah show to talk about their immense grief over losing one of their newborn twins. Their conversation with Gary touched viewers all around the world. we have an update from Ryan's parents about their life now that's coming up stay with us right now when you buy more carpet at the Home Depot you save more during our buy more save more event going on now upgrade your carpeting with the top brands and save up to 15 % off installed carpet projects installation starting at just 49 cents per square foot select from a wide assortment of carpet to fit your room lifestyle and budget during the buy more save more event at the Home Depot.

36:35Offer valid August 27th through September 13th, 2026. Base price for standard installations only. Excludes Traffic Master and Stock Carpet. For licenses, see homedepot.com slash license numbers. Welcome back to the Oprah podcast. Gary Zukav, the author of Seat of the Soul and many other books, has expanded my spiritual life over the decades I've known him. I know he's done that for so many of you too. He appeared on the Oprah show nearly 40 times. But this next story about baby Ryan and his parents, grief, is one I, and I know so many of the people who were viewing at the time, will never forget.

37:10It will always stay with me. Baby Ryan's story is an example of a spiritual lesson around the purpose of why each soul comes to earth. If you or someone you know is experiencing grief, I'm hoping that Gary's words will serve as a healing balm for you. Let's listen. So one of the fundamentals of Gary's work is the concept of what he calls authentic power. And he says when the personality comes to fully serve the energy of its soul, that is authentic empowerment. The secret is alignment. When you know that you're on course and doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing, fulfilling your soul's intention, fulfilling your heart's desire or whatever you choose to call it, you are your most powerful.

37:56As Gary sees it, there are only two kinds of power, authentic internal power and external power. We often get the two confused. If you reach outward to make yourself feel worthy or valuable or lovable or safe in the world by attempting to manipulate and control it, that is reaching for external power, for power over what appears to be external. It's the ability to manipulate and to control those things that appear to be outside of you. For example, having a beautiful set of clothes or a new car or a new set of skis or having your dreadlocks arranged in just the right way. You can be wearing sandals and a T-shirt and still be reaching for external power because that image is what you will use to try to manipulate and to control people, to make you feel worthy.

38:47But there is another kind of power. And that kind of power can be developed as you look inward to find the holes, the emptiness, and fill it inside instead of reaching outside. And that kind of power you call authentic power? Real power. Authentic power. And the difference between authentic power and external power is? There are many differences. External power comes and goes. Your stock portfolio goes up in value and down. You can win an election or lose it. You can get a new car and be proud of it, and then someone can hit it, and it's a disaster. But authentic power, you never lose. And that's what we're all seeking.

39:30That is correct. Well, let me put it this way. Until you develop authentic power, you continue to create painful experiences in your life. Okay, then tell me, in earthly terms, what authentic power means. What would that feel like, to be authentically empowered? You are living a life of authentic power. Authentic power means to be excited about what you are doing, to be fulfilled and fulfilling. You forget to be angry. You forget to be frightened. You know that you are on this earth to do something, to give gifts, and that you are doing that something and giving those gifts. You are fully engaged in the present moment.

40:15it's unbelievable we're talking about this in the 90s on broadcast television one of the most profound moments i ever experienced on the oprah show was when gary and i spoke with a young mother and father who were suffering in their grief after the death of one of their infant twins let's listen to that conversation now we want you to meet jody who says she used to be confident and empowered felt empowered she was the one her friends turned to for advice but just a few months ago, Jody endured one of the most difficult things a mother can experience. And now she fears that she has lost her power and will never regain control over her life.

40:53Take a look. I'm 31 years old. I've been married for four years to my husband, Ira. I'm a working mom. I felt like I was in control of my life. I felt like I had authentic power in my life that I created and determined my destiny. We wanted to have another baby. Ira was dying for a little boy. We found out that we were pregnant, and we found out we were having twins, and we felt like we hit the lifetime lottery. That's Spencer, and that one's Ryan. We started to tell Haley that she was very lucky. There were two babies in Mommy's Tommy. 14 weeks before my due date, I went into preterm labor and was admitted to the hospital.

41:42And six hours later, had an emergency C-section. Thankfully, with Ira by my side, they delivered two beautiful little boys. Ryan weighed one pound, 12 ounces, and Spencer weighed two pounds, two ounces. They had, you know, ten fingers and ten toes and just looked perfect. but they were also very tiny. On the third day after they were born, Ryan had what they call a brain bleed. Another day later, they called me down from my hospital room. He was in cardiac arrest. I was sitting there watching and hoping that everything was going to be OK, but it wasn't. Then the doctor came to me and said, we'd like to stop pumping.

42:32I told them it was okay, and we said goodbye. They let us hold him for as long as we wanted, and we said goodbye, and we cried.

42:49We buried him the next day. It was very difficult because it was a very bittersweet situation. We lost Ryan, and yet Spencer was still there. All of a sudden, I went into a tailspin. I didn't have control over anything. I felt like I didn't know who I was anymore. Some of the hardest times, I think, for me, are when Haley asks about Ryan. And I'll have to re-explain. Ryan went to heaven. Ryan went to God. It's hard to feel completely happy anymore. And it just seems to me like sadness and grief are so much more powerful than joy and happiness. I feel like I know what it's like to feel that power and that control over my life, but how do I get there again?

43:44How do I not let this loss and tragedy in my life take it over.

43:59So I'm going to let you try to answer that.

44:04This is a matter of perspective. The perspective of the personality or the perspective of the soul. From the perspective of the soul, interactions between personalities are meaningful. and every soul comes into the earth school when it chooses and every personality or soul leaves the earth school when it chooses. If you look at Ryan as a personality who lived for a few days and then encountered tragic circumstances and died, then you are looking from the point of view of a personality. If you look at Ryan as a soul, like yourself, like Ira, like Oprah, like me, like everyone on this earth that left this earth when it chose, then you will have a different perspective.

45:14You will be able to see the gifts that this soul offered to you during its short stay on the earth. You will reach a place in your life where you are grateful that this soul chose to be with you for however short a time. If you do not, you will live your life in anguish, thinking that a tragedy has occurred. Whenever you see your other son growing up, you will say, Ryan should be here. When he graduates from high school, you say, Ryan should have graduated. When he finds his wife, you will say, Ryan should be getting married too. And through all of this time, you will be imposing on your other son a burden to carry, because no matter what he does or how successful he is, he will be causing mommy pain.

46:16If you look at Ryan as a soul, a great soul like yourself, who voluntarily entered the earth school and voluntarily left it in order to be with you and to offer gifts, then you will begin the process of fathoming and appreciating and becoming grateful for the power of the interaction that you had with that soul. and you will be able to receive the gifts that that soul came to this earth to give you, to give Ira, to give to his siblings. And if you do not, you will continually be turning away from those gifts. You will be denying the very wealth of wisdom and compassion that was offered to you by this soul.

47:15Well, that may be the most powerful thing I ever heard you say. That's pretty powerful.

47:22That was pretty powerful.

47:28That was pretty powerful. And I... Do you feel that his soul lives on and that somehow or some way that we can, you know, contact that soul or feel that soul... You are feeling it right now. Every one of us feels the soul of Ryan right now at this moment. Every one of us feels the soul of Ryan. And that's really what Gary's talking about in Multicentery Perception. If you only, in the book about Multicentery Perception, if you think it's only what you can see, then you're missing the whole point. Because every one of us saw that story, heard that, and now feel the presence of your son who was only here for a short few days.

48:11And his own little life, weighing one and a half pounds, has impacted, through the telling of that story, millions of people. We all feel it. What do you think? We're all feeling that right now. Are we not, Gary? Gary G. We are. I am. Yeah. Well, that's enough. Gary G. And yes, the answer to your question is yes. Yes. However, I would also say that to look at this soul as Ryan would be to diminish the power and scope of the presence that came into your life and chose a personality, in this case, of an infant named Ryan. In other words, the soul is a great deal more than this personality, just as you are a great deal more than the personality that you are, Ira.

49:01and if you begin to look at your interaction with Ryan as an interaction with a soul, then you will not so much have a tendency to be involved in the sentimentalism of thinking of Ryan the soul, but begin to experience the power of this soul who came to be with you and took the form of Ryan for a few days. Wow. Well, we recently connected with Jodi, the mom there, and she wrote us an update. She said that I could share with you all here. She says, we're all doing great. Spencer is 24, almost 25. Haley is 27. And we have another son, Cooper, who is 19. That day was an important turning point for me in my recovery of power.

49:53It really helped me put things in perspective and get my life back on track. and learning to deal with the loss and sorrow. I am not sure that the show really caught the power of that moment in the way that we all felt it. Like Ryan's soul was in the room with us. It was an oddly comforting feeling. A few things I remember most, which I don't even think aired, maybe it was during a commercial break, Gary said something to the effect of, maybe Ryan's soul was meant to guide Spencer into this world and then move on from this world. I've thought about that many times. I also took to heart his advice to not burden Spencer with the loss of his twin by always thinking or saying, well, Ryan should be doing this or that.

50:44During the times when we are celebrating Spencer, I have lived by that in our relationship with Spencer, and I think that was important. Spencer has been able to live his life as himself and not being burdened by our loss. However, I will say that I do feel he has his own loss that he has yet to really understand or deal with. Ira remembers Gary saying, your emotions are your friends and has used that throughout his life. So I want to thank you, Jodi, for sharing your update and for being so brave about telling your family story all those years ago. that was really brave to do that on national broadcast television.

51:27We have Alicia joining us via Zoom from North Carolina who saw that show. Hi, Alicia. Hi, Oprah. I hear Baby Ryan's story had a profound impact on you. I could feel it having an impact on people around the country and the world because, you know, for me, it was always the audience was the rest of the country and everybody in that audience was so moved by that story and we could feel the presence of that little baby soul or spirit in the room. And the fact that we were talking about him, as I said, he only lived a few days and we are sharing that story with people around the world and you're one of the people who heard it.

52:17Yes, yes. Thank you so much for having me. and being able to share something that is so near and dear to my heart. A little bit of my story was back in December of 2010, December 20th, I went to the hospital, so excited to have my second baby girl. I'm an only child and I just wanted my daughter to have sister. I was so very excited and I was past my due date and I went into the hospital and I went through all the whole process of labor up until the last minute and things went bad and they went bad really quickly. And we lost our second child that early in the morning on that December 20th and it was I was left just trying to make sense of it.

53:20Like, how could this happen? How could I carry her past my due date and go through all the labor and lose her like that? And, um, I was so very stuck and I remembered baby Ryan. I remembered that show. So I have gone back to that show so many times to re-watch that clip that you just played to help me understand, like, what was it? Why did she come? I know that we were able to donate her organs, so she helped three babies with her heart valves. Wow. So just hearing Gary Zukav's words and feeling the audience that day was so comforting. There was just something about it. And I have gone there so many times to rewatch that show because it's been so helpful for me to realize that she was a soul coming through me to help.

54:29And her purpose was to help these three babies that needed heart valves. And I don't know what other, you know, what other purpose she had. There's much more there, I am sure. But yes, it was that show was just very moving and it was just so helpful for me. Wow. So this was a very definition of a full circle moment. What do you want to say to anybody who may be stuck in their grief right now? I would say it's nothing that you can just get, get through quickly. I would say, I like to, I like the term I like to use is it's three T's. It's tears, time, and talking, right? Like we need to talk about it and not hold things in.

55:25And time is just naturally helping us along the way. And tears, we have this gift of these tears that come out of our eyes when things are just too much for us to handle.

55:43So that's my best advice, is to not try to go around it and actually feel it. Because I think that when you go around it, you actually prolong the healing. And just feeling it and crying when you need to cry and talk about it when you need to talk about it. I find was the most helpful. Time, tears, and talking. I thank you so much. I thank you so much for holding that space for Ryan in your heart. And then all those many years later, it comes back and is a balm, is a soother, is a comfort to you. Thank you so much, Alicia. So special. Thank you, Oprah. Thank you. Thank you. Listener, I am grateful that you are here.

56:34And up next, an update on a young woman, Laura, who appeared on The Oprah Show with Gary Zukav. Laura shared with Gary and me that she was thinking about taking her life until the universe sent her a sign to live a more meaningful existence here on Earth. And she's joining us 25 years later. Stay with us. Right now, when you buy more carpet at the Home Depot, you save more. During our Buy More, Save More event going on now, upgrade your carpeting with the top brands and save up to 15 % off installed carpet projects. Installation starting at just 49 cents per square foot. Select from a wide assortment of carpet to fit your room, lifestyle, and budget during the Buy More, Save More event at The Home Depot.

57:15Offer valid August 27th through September 13th, 2026. Base price for standard installations only. Excludes Traffic Master and stock carpet. For licenses, see homedepot.com slash license numbers. Welcome back, listener. On this episode, I am so happy to be sharing the greatest lessons from one of the most profound teachers of my career and life, Gary Zukav. He's a man who changed my internal spiritual GPS or the way I saw it. I know he's done that for so many of you, too, with his book, Seat of the Soul. So let's get back to it. I'll never forget another young woman who shared her story on the Oprah Winfrey Show with Gary and myself.

57:51Her name is Laura. Let's listen to Laura. This is Laura. Her soul story is a reminder that the universe is always providing us with opportunities to discover a more fulfilling life. About eight years ago, I was strilling through life, just simply going through the motions, and something happened to me that was going to change my life forever. I was a cheerleader, I was a dancer, I was an orchestra. I used to be the kind of person that was always smiling on the outside, but in actuality, I was dying slowly inside. Since about the age of 14 is when I started feeling suicidal. I started questioning what my purpose in life was, why I was here, would it really matter if I wasn't here.

58:32I felt very empty. I felt very lonely. Deep down inside, I think I felt that my parents didn't love me. And I know now that they did, but they never told me that. At the moment that I felt the most suicidal, I had a trip coming up with several girlfriends. depending on the outcome of this trip, was going to decide what my life was going to be. It was going to decide if I was going to continue living or if I was going to take my life. We got on the freeway and noticed sirens behind us. So we pulled into the next lane and we came to a complete stop. We looked up on the overpass and there was a man who was about to jump on the freeway.

59:11And there was only three cars that got stopped in between the exit and the overpass. and I think we were one of the cars for a reason. And my friend looked at me and she said, don't you think this is a sign? I felt myself looking up at this man, wondering if he was going to jump or not and wanting him to live. And at that point, I wondered if someone felt that way about me. They did eventually talk him down and as we went underneath the overpass, I felt a very strange energy go from my head to my toe and it felt like millions of tiny goosebumps. And I felt power in me and it gave me the courage to continue to live.

59:51And I knew I was never gonna feel bad about myself again. I knew someone was looking over me. I think that incident happened just for me. I don't think it was anything of a coincidence. I think I'm very intuitive now. I kind of take the things that happen around me and look at them as new signs and take them as a direction of where I need to go in my life now. What a story that is. What a story that is. You know, I was just saying to Gary, I don't believe in coincidences. I believe whenever anything happens and you are in, it happens in your presence, it's happening for a lesson for you. And what's interesting about that, for everybody else on that freeway who saw it, it happens to them for whatever reason, you know, their story.

1:00:39Yeah, I think everything happens for a reason. And I don't think there's anything that's bad in the world that happens to you, because I think it's supposed to happen to you to teach you something along the way. If you're open to see it. Yes. Yeah. The fact that you would be stuck right there looking at that man on the bridge, getting ready to jump when you'd been thinking about doing it yourself. And it all came in the timing with that exact weekend, too. This was the night before we were going to leave for that weekend. And I think I'd been trying to find a way, and I've been searching for something or searching for a purpose, and I wasn't really sure why I was here.

1:01:13And I think at that moment is when I kind of surrendered myself to the universe and realized if you only surrender yourself, you'll realize that your life just goes into place, and you find a certain harmony and a certain joy in your life. And if you can live your life with that, then you're blessed, because a lot of people can't live their life with that. If you can surround yourself with a positivity bubble, kind of get all the negative thoughts out of there, nothing bad in your life happens. It's how you choose to react to them. What do you want to say to all the people who felt that she did?

1:01:44I don't know, because I hear this all the time, and you do too on your website, people saying, I don't know what my purpose is. I think my life doesn't have any meaning. And they're obviously, with all the people who are watching us around the country, somebody watching right now saying, I identify with exactly what you said. I don't know what my purpose is. I don't know what my, what is my meaning? Is my life important to anybody? Does anybody care if I decide today I no longer want to be here? And what do you want to say to that, Gary? There are times when I wanted to take my life because my earlier life was so painful and so agonizing in so many ways, and I felt so isolated.

1:02:28But if I had, I would not be able to be here and say to you, you are worthy and your life has a meaning. And it is the universe that you are a part of that is a universe of consciousness and life and love. You do not need to depend upon one other or two other or six other people to love you. You are valuable as you are. and what you do with that life which is precious beyond what we can conceive is for you to choose in this moment but no matter what you do you are worthy you are precious you are a creator you're worthy because you were born you are yes you are worthy because you are born because you are.

1:03:17Laura, zooming in from South Carolina. Laura, hi. Hard to believe that was 25 years ago. What happened to you after that show? Oh my gosh, 25 years. Well, thank you for inviting me to share today. I feel so honored to be present in this moment. 25 years ago, I was turning 25 and also starting a new job as a 911 operator. I was absolutely terrified to share such a personal story with anyone other than my own self. And I think you touched on it earlier. These weren't topics that were typically spoken about 25 years ago. So as a young woman whose friends and family had no idea this ever happened was kind of like a piece of an onion peeling away to show what my true personality was.

1:04:18So I do want to thank you for allowing me to participate in that because since that show aired, it taught me a lot. It taught me that I'm braver than I ever thought I could be. And it gave me confidence to be my authentic self. So I am not really shy anymore. I say I'm a little introverted, but I am who I am. Take me or relieve me. And I know who I am deep down. And I love that about myself. And it was so encouraging to see really heartfelt comments after the show aired from people who watched the show and also from people who knew me and didn't know that side of me. So bearing that to the world was terrifying, but so worth it.

1:05:14and I feel like that was a good chapter for me and I'm living a beautiful life now. Absolutely. I couldn't be happier. I never would have imagined this. I'm so, so thrilled to hear this because, you know, I never, we, many of the producers and I, you don't know what happens after the show. I did every show with the hope that it was a win-win for whoever was a participant. obviously you coming on and being a guest for us was a win for us but I always wanted the guests to leave with something that would also be meaningful in their lives and I think I didn't know how old you were but I think uh you know in this world that we live in where everybody posts all their feelings and what their sandwich was this morning and shares everything I think it's hard for people to understand what a courageous thing that would have been to out yourself that you were having mental health issues.

1:06:14Now, in the most recent years, we've been able to talk about the word trauma and about mental health and not feeling great about yourself and how it's okay not to be okay. But I'm telling you, in 98, in the 2000s, that was not the case. Yeah, no, it was very taboo. You just didn't expose yourself like that. This is before social media. There was no Facebook, like you said, discussing your feelings. And so I guess my way of understanding who I was and feeling fulfilled was the career that I had for 16 years as a 911 operator, dispatcher, eventually supervisor. I loved that job. And that is when I felt very much myself.

1:07:06I felt that was what my purpose was, which I had been searching for for so long, is my purpose was service. And if I could be a safe place for people who otherwise were in their worst moment and sometimes the most traumatizing event they'll have in their entire life, if I could be that for somebody, that's what fulfilled me. So funny enough, when I took a deferred retirement and my now second husband and I moved to the greatest place on earth, not Disneyland, but Maui, Hawaii. Yes, I would agree. When we moved there, I felt a void and I couldn't put my finger on it for a while. It was something was missing and it was that service to others that I feel so inherently as me.

1:08:04And so then I joined the American Red Cross in the Hawaii division and I ended up becoming, funny enough, a real estate agent, very much removed from what I had been doing previously. But I was very good. I still do it. And I've had a mentor who even said to me, and he probably doesn't realize this is one of the best things anyone ever said to me. He said, you know, you have a gift. You have a gift. And I thought, wow, no one's ever put anything into words like that for me before. And this is just real estate. But for me, it was service. It had nothing to do with how it affected me. It was my service to let me be the best person I can be for the person on the other end because they deserve somebody like me.

1:08:58Well, you know what I think is so wonderful? What I think is so wonderful, Laura, is that you are living proof that it was a great decision not to take your life. Because, look, 25 years later, you say you're happier than you've ever been. You're living your best life. You're fulfilled. And in that moment of despair, which so many young people are struggling with mental health today, you feel like you can't go on and life doesn't get better, but you are living proof that it does. So what would you like to say to some person who's struggling in this moment? Somebody is listening to us right now in this moment who is in that.

1:09:37I would, yes, I would say, I guess I learned that we have the power in ourselves to make decisions. And it's up to us how we react to those decisions as well. And much like Gary says, we have responsible choices. So when you learn that you have the power within you to choose, are you going to be happy? Choose how you want to live your life. It's up to only us to make that decision to keep going. And life is built in chapters. So this chapter, you got to get through it to get to the next one. It may not be what you're looking for, but in order to find out the rest of the story, you've got to get through the chapter you're in now.

1:10:32Get to the next chapter. Yes. You've got to stop resisting. That's what I've learned. Stop resisting what the universe is trying to provide for you. if you just allow yourself, like I said before, if you surrender to the universe and you just allow yourself to feel the moment and be intuitive and listen to yourself, you're going to get through that chapter. And what's on the next chapter could be amazing. And it is for me. I have no better life. I actually married the love of my life who knows me better than I know myself. I didn't think that was possible. So it's amazing. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful result.

1:11:15Thank you so much, Laura. Thank you so much. Great to hear from you. While we were producing this episode, before I even had the chance to tell Gary that I was recording this podcast about some of his greatest teachings for me, he sent me an email because that's how the universe works. I was thinking about him. He was thinking about me. And I want to read part of what he wrote me because I think it's a really important message to hear during this us versus them mentality that is hurting all of us. He said, our evolution requires us to love. How could it be otherwise? We cannot change a world that is built on manipulation and control with more of the same.

1:11:56When we lash out against darkness, we ourselves enter the darkness. When we have no compassion for those who have no compassion, what is the difference between us and them? We need to choose love over fear. Thank you, Gary, for your timeless wisdom. Gary Zukav's books, The Seat of the Soul, and his most recent Universal Human are available anywhere you buy your books. As I express throughout this podcast and throughout many years of growing in my own spirituality, his works have been so helpful to me in opening up the aperture of what is possible and what is possible by following your soul's purpose here on earth and allowing your personality to become aligned with what your soul actually came here to do.

1:12:51That's the goal. Thank you to my guests, Julianne Hough, to Todd, to Alicia and Laura. We'll talk again next week here on the Oprah Podcast. Go well, everyone. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.

1:13:31updates and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, The Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list. Shop Labor Day savings at The Home Depot and gear up for fall projects with the right tools to keep your projects moving.