Oprah & Music Star Mike Posner on His 3000 Mile Walk to Happiness

0:00From athletic stuff like a full court pick-up game, swish, to athletic-ish stuff like a half mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. We did a cross-country trip from here to New York. And she was in charge of the radio when she drove. It was just the two of you? Just the two of us. Okay. I took a pill in the Beezer.

0:36There was this year in my life where I was only making music, and I got to this point where there was nothing to write about because my whole life was in the studio. Right. So you have to get from life. You have to get out there and live. Yes. You don't want to be high like me, never really knowing why like me. You don't ever want to step off that roller coaster and be all alone. You want to pray? Yeah, let's have a prayer. Dear life, love, God or the universe, we ask that you give us the stories, the conversation, the jokes, whatever is needed to make a difference in someone's life today. And we thank you for this opportunity and just this time together.

1:20And that we're just in gratitude. Amen. Amen. Amen. I know, sad soul. Hi, and welcome to the Oprah Podcast. Thank you for spending your valuable time here. I'm really excited about this episode because, as you just heard, my guest is Grammy-nominated singer, songwriter, producer, who literally stepped away from his larger-than-life life to spend six months walking across the entire United States to find happiness. What up, though? My name is Mike Posner, and I'm walking across America. which is what we're going to be talking about today, how you can find it. And now I know not everyone can do that, but the lessons he learned along the way are ones that I believe are going to spark your own pursuit of what everyone is ultimately looking for.

2:08And that is to feel like you belong, to feel a sense of joy and happiness. Of course, you know his hit songs like Cooler Than Me and as we just heard, I took a pill in Ibiza. Welcome to the Oprah podcast. Thanks for doing this, coming all the way here, Mike. My pleasure. I saw Mike speak a few weeks ago, and I had never heard your story. I'm sorry I didn't hear your story. You don't need to apologize. I was so moved by your story. Everyone sitting around me were all crying. They had tears in their eyes, and I wasn't crying, but I was so moved by your spirit. I just thought, here is a person who has become a whole human being, which is what we're all looking for, is to become whole and to stop the search for perfection.

3:00And what you were able to share with the audience in that search was just so moving. I thought, you're one of the people that is obviously carrying the light. You're one of the light carriers on this planet. and I wanted to know you. And the best way to get to know you was to have a conversation. And I thought, I know when I have that conversation, I'm going to wish that I had some microphones there. So I called my producers right away and said, there's this guy, Mike Poser. And they went, the Mike Poser? And so thank you for moving your schedule around to be here today. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

3:36So let's talk about I Took a Pill in Ibiza. When you wrote that, what was going on in your life? It's just so, everything about that song speaks to what it means to want to be famous, trying to be famous, wishing you were famous, all of that. Yeah, well, it was a lot of madness. And you've been famous for a long time, so you can identify with this. And I had attained a certain amount of success. And I wasn't able, against my ego's best wishes, to sustain that. Uh-huh. So I came out of the gate. You were at Duke in college when you wrote Cooler Than Me. Correct. So I wrote this song in my dorm room, and it became this worldwide hit.

4:19And it was my first single out. So I thought, oh, that's just what happens when I put songs out, you know? Yeah. When your first song is an international hit, you think, oh, that's how you do it. Right. And so I'm parading around the world and, you know, taking my shirt off at shows and making more money than any 23-year-old should be making. And people screaming your name and all those things. Right. And what happened was the next song I put out, it wasn't as popular. It's still pretty popular, but comparison will do a number on you. Yes. So I thought, oh, gosh, that's not good. And then the one after that was even less popular by the numbers.

5:01As if this is the only metric of art, but this was the metric I was concerned with at 23. 23. Yeah. And suddenly I found my schedule had just kind of emptied. And this trend continued to where my career was basically considered over. And people would call me a one-hit wonder, I guess, which was true at the time. But it was challenging. It challenged my identity because I was so wrapped up in being this young, popular young man. How long did that last before it started to fade? A couple years. Yes. A couple years. So you're riding high. Riding high. I thought this lasts forever. Now, in hindsight, dwindling was the best thing that ever happened to me.

5:49But at the time, I thought, well, what do I do now? You know, who am I? Uh-huh. And when your sense of identity is challenged, you start to look for who you really are. Yes. and so I got to start this this journey of okay if I can't rest in being popular and if I'm really honest when I was at the top I wasn't all that happy anyways I grew up sort of like a shy and depressed kid and I thought you know if I got this record deal and I got this fame that I would just feel more secure in myself I thought this would be concrete evidence that I matter. And of course, you know, that's not an external job.

6:36That's an internal job. And so like so many people now think if I get this many followers, if I get this much attention, if I only had this thing going for me, everything would be okay. Right. And you and I know it's never the outside. Correct. And so this is like everybody has something that they put in front of them in the future yes that they tell themselves is going to make them feel better yes and so while the the specifics of my choice which was fame yeah hey you know i get that i'll feel better yeah that's singular to to me not singular to me but it's more specific to me it's not universal but this action of placing our peace and happiness in the future is a pretty darn universal thing that we humans do.

7:27And why my story, I think, resonates with people is I was, I guess, blessed and privileged enough to actually get all the things. I got the fame. I got the attention from the opposite sex. I got nominated for a Grammy. I got the money. And I still felt empty. I thought, well, what's wrong? Do I need to get more of it? And I can tell you that achieving fame or success in the music industry, while not an inherently bad thing, did not change my moment to moment experience of life. One iota. Like not one iota. And that was disillusioning. It was because when you haven't gotten the thing, you can still look forward to getting it.

8:18Yeah. And because you think that thing is going to fill you up. Yeah, it's somewhere in the future. If I get it, I have this thing called hope. Now it's hoping probably the wrong thing, but you still have the hope. When you get it, that hope is replaced by disillusionment. So that's where I found myself writing that song. And you were disillusioned because you saw your friend up on stage and you realized, what, number one, you didn't have that anymore? Where were you in the process of your own fame then? Sure. When you were looking at Avicii. I was in the VIP section with Avicii's manager and I said, I'm going to go in the main crowd because I want to experience this show up front.

8:58I lied to him and I was experiencing envy. And at the time, I still drank alcohol. So alcohol and envy are a heck of a mix. What I wanted to do was I wanted to go in the crowd and see if someone would recognize me because I was so empty. Someone that just, even if it's a stranger, someone to say, are you Mike Posner? Are you that guy who's saying cooler than me? To just give me a sense of I matter. A hit. It's like a dopamine hit. Yeah, but you're right. Give me a sense of I matter. So you're looking for the I matter from external forces. Yeah. Correct. That's the thing about fame, I must say.

9:36If you believe it and you rely on it for the definition of who you are, it will eventually let you down. That's right. It will. That's right. So tell us about growing up, your childhood in Michigan, because the story that you tell, you told at this conference and also you tell in your TED Talk about your dad wishing for you health and happiness. Tell us that story. Yeah, it was like this strange mantra. He was always beating into my head. I grew up in Southfield, Michigan, which is borders Detroit. My parents are both from Detroit. My father, like, he would always wait till we're alone, too. Like, my mom would leave the room.

10:16My sister would leave the room. He'd poke his head back in. He'd go, remember, there's two H's in life, health and happiness, health and happiness. He's always saying this, like, my whole life. He wanted me to be healthy and happy. And the healthy part, more or less, came naturally or easy to me. But the happiness, I struggled. From a very young age. I remember feeling really shy and feeling like I didn't belong. I feel like I didn't belong. I remember feeling accepted everywhere. Meaning I had friends. I was in social groups. But I never felt like I was really, like I really belonged there. And...

11:06Something was missing. There was an emptiness. There was an emptiness. Yes. From a young age. And I don't know if we all have a version of that emptiness, because I only have my experience to compare it to. But this emptiness for sure has a giant part in me creating this story that if I get this fame, the emptiness will go away. It brings me such joy, dear listener, that you're choosing to spend your valuable time here with us. Coming up, what was behind Mike Posner's decision to walk across the entire United States of America? From sea to shining sea, nearly 3 ,000 miles on foot. Plus, he's going to share the five lessons to finding happiness he learned along the way, even after getting bit by a poisonous rattlesnake.

11:54Stay with us. From athletic stuff like a full court pickup game, swish, to athletic-ish stuff like a half-mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Welcome back to the Oprah podcast. I thank you for joining me. I love this inspiring conversation I'm having with Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter and hit producer Mike Posner, who left his life in Hollywood to walk across America on foot, trekking through 13 states over six months. And he's here to share the five lessons on finding happiness.

12:31he learned on his journey. Let's get back to it. What made you decide you wanted to walk across America? I know you made that decision after you'd written the Ibiza song, and that song went, I mean, it's been downloaded I don't know how many billions of times. And so that song, writing that song, returned you to the whole world that you thought was the world that you wanted to be a part of, correct? It's a very ironic move, you know, you write a song about your career ending. Yes. I'm just a singer. who already blew his shot. And then it reinvigorates your career. Yes. So, yes, I had this second wave.

13:12You don't want to be high like me. Never really know why like me. You don't ever want to step off that roller coaster and be all alone. So, were you different with the second wave? Were you more... I was a little better. Were you a little better? I was a little better. Because at that point, I realized, hey, this success, it comes and goes. So I had my first rise to success. I thought, oh, this lasts forever. I'm the man. This is definitely going to go forever. The first time it disappeared, I thought, oh, my gosh, I blew it. It's over. And then the second wave, I realized, oh, this is my job.

13:55I'm supposed to make art. And this thing called popularity, it just does whatever it wants. And my job is to tell the truth in my music and my art and kind of not pay attention to that. Right. So I was a little better. A little better. A little better. But you asked what preceded me making this wild decision to walk across the U.S. Why did the idea intrigue you, though? One is I was drawn to it because it was so hard. Right? I knew that for me to have the growth, to make this shift of filling up this emptiness, to go from external validation to internal validation, I'm not going to achieve that by doing something easy or doing something I already know, going to the studio, getting another hit.

14:46Like, I need to do something that challenges me. Did you think you were too soft? Oh, yeah. You thought you were too soft. I mean, inherently. And then on the trip, I realized how soft I was, right, before I left. So let's explore that a little bit. Okay. You thought you were too soft. What about you, your life, your upbringing, all of that made you think, I'm too soft. I need to toughen up. A few things. Okay. So one, the external part of my life, like if you just looked at it on paper, everything went perfect. I'm talking like I'm a kid who grew up getting straight A's, went to Duke University, got a record deal before I even graduated.

15:29My first song is a hit, even though the second was a big, still had another hit, making millions of dollars. Like it was going pretty good on the outside. From the outside, you look like who everybody else is trying to be or wants to be. Right. And so I'm Jewish, right? My father that we talk about, he's Jewish. Well, we have a tradition in the Jewish lineage to have a bar mitzvah when you're 13. That's when you're supposed to become a man. Now, I went from 13, then I was 31. I didn't feel like a man, even though I had a bar mitzvah. So I think that we, in our culture now, lack some rites of passage, especially for our young men.

16:11Even though I had attained all these things, I didn't feel like an adult. I realized, I think, even though I didn't want to admit it at that time, my life was really about making it, one, making myself more relevant, more popular, getting other people to like me more and more, almost maniacally being obsessed with how many people love me, how many followers do I have on Instagram, how many comments do I have under this Instagram post, you know? Just, when you really look at it, it's pretty unhealthy, pretty sick. Yes, if your life is depending on how many people like you out there and how many comments you get on posts, when you don't get them, then it means your life can't be good.

16:56Right. If you're depending on that to make your life okay, then that means your life is never in your own hands. Right. 100%. Now, ironically, my experience has always been whenever I'm aligned, that's when the biggest numbers are. That's the way it works. Yes. That's the way it works. So we talked about why I felt soft. But there's another thing. The person we told the story about, Tim Avicii, who I was in the audience, and I mentioned in the song I took a pill in Ibiza, he killed himself. And I remember I was on the way to the studio one day, and my assistant said, Tim is dead. Now here was this guy who had everything I wanted, and it clearly didn't fill him up because he chose, his life was so painful that he chose to end it.

17:49And I got in my assistant Nick's car that day and we were driving in the studio and there's just one thought looping in my head. It was just, I have to walk across America. I have to walk across them. I have to. There was this feeling like my life at some point is going to end. And this dream of yours that called to you, That's either going to happen in your life or it's not. And there's no more next year. He's gone. One day you'll be gone too. So you want to do it or not? It's funny how death can illuminate life. That's what it's here to do. I feel that with every passing, particularly of someone that I know, I know that it's happening in our lives to remind us how valuable living really is and to get on with it.

18:45That's what it's there for. Well said. That's what it's there for. Get on with it. Get on with it. So you decided to walk across America. You put it off, you put it off, you put it off. And finally at 31, you did it. And it was scary. Right away, the people I worked with in the music industry said, you can't do this. You cannot do this. i said why you can't just stop making albums you can't just stop touring like this career that you've spent all this time building it will not be here when you get back this is a career ending decision so but this is one of these obstacles that happens on everyone's spiritual journey which is you start on the path and a bunch of people tell you don't go on that path even though the little voice in your heart is going, this is the path, this is the only one.

19:35I have to go. Yes, I need to go. But everyone in the external world is saying, don't do that. For me, that was moving to Chicago, moving to Chicago and actually starting the Oprah Winfrey show there. But everybody had said to me when I was in Baltimore, you will fail, you're walking into landmines, you'll never succeed, you're already a big fish in a little pond, you need to stay here, it's too big for you, it's too big for you so I understand this yeah that was mine this was yours everybody has the thing I loved one of the things you said and you say in your you said in the talk that I heard not all crazy ideas are great yeah but all great ideas seem crazy all great not all crazy ideas are great but all great ideas are crazy all the great ideas are crazy and so or seem crazy to somebody else they're like well that's the craziest thing I ever heard you're gonna walk across America.

20:28When you decide to change your life for the better, don't expect a whole bunch of people to roll out a red carpet for you or, you know, cheer for you. Often it's the opposite. And I think life is perhaps rigged in the way that we make a decision. And sometimes it tests how serious we are. Yes, exactly. That's what it's there for. And that's actually lesson number one. So you You made the decision to walk across America in search of happiness. Yes. And that was the first lesson of happiness? Yes. Is that the crazy ideas? Yeah. Not all crazy ideas are great, but all great ideas are crazy. Okay. And so you decided to begin your journey on the coast of New Jersey.

21:09That's right. And you say you learned a second lesson on finding happiness right at the start. What was the start? First of all, you had to drive to New Jersey to get there, right? Right. And then you realize that's a long way. Yeah. So I had fears and doubts of my own. Like, am I going to permanently damage my body? Because how many years did you put it off before you actually did? Five years. Five years. Okay. Five years. Now you're actually going to do it. Now I'm going. I announced to my friends, my family, my audience, I'm going to do this. Yeah. And we're driving across the country and it's like, I'm looking out the window.

21:49and it's like this thing just keeps going. You know, it's like... It's a long drive. I'm like, it's a day just in Kansas and we're going 70 miles per hour and I have all the fears and doubts that I always had, which were, am I going to damage my body? And then the fears and doubts about... of my agents and managers. Yes. I let come inside my brain. Is it true that I won't have a career when this is done? So I have a lyric in one of my songs. as I say, don't think other people's thoughts. I was thinking other people's thoughts too. Like I'm going to ruin my career. And then lastly, the biggest fear of all is what if I fail?

22:29Like what if I risk it all? I hurt my body and I don't even make it. So it's like, I'm not even leaving to walk across America. I'm leaving with a chance to walk across America. So I'm driving across and the gravity starts, what I'm going to attempt to do starts to set in. But on April 15th, 2019, I stood off the coast in New Jersey. It was really important that I started in the water. I wanted to walk coast to coast. The saltwater waves are crashing on my back. I had my father's swimming trunks on. And I took a step. And right when I took that step, all these fears and doubts about what might happen if I chose to do this, they disappeared because I was doing it.

23:18And that's lesson number two. That's number two. Lesson number two is step one is take one step. I love that so much. Yeah. Step one is take one step. Because these fears and doubts, they're not a signal that you're on the wrong path. They're a signal that you're on the right path. If you didn't have them, you'd be playing it too safe. Yeah. You'd be in the sandbox of your life. You'd be in your comfort zone. And so now some fear, like, you know, if a tiger came behind us, that's good fear. Listen to that. But this psychological fear, like our friend Eckhart Tolle says, this psychological fear about a made-up version of the future that doesn't exist anywhere but your own head.

24:03In my case, you know, what if I hurt myself? What if I fail? These are all made-up scenarios. Day two complete. I broke my camera. How long did you think we walked today? Eleven. This is another obstacle that life puts in front of you to test you how serious are you. Finished with the first week of the walk. And part of the sweetness of the joy you're going to find is on the other side of that fear. It's going to be cold again. Yeah, it's going to feel great. That's the dunk. Now we're in Ohio. Feeling it, not pretending it's not there. More great memories, more great people, more great experiences.

24:42And then getting on with it. Anyways. Indiana State Line. Get a Zoom. You know, those concerns about your body are actually real. I mean, I walked 25 miles. I walked a marathon once when I was much younger, 26 miles. And you are aching and you are sore and you are, you know, the balls of your feet are, you know, burning. And it took you three months to get from New Jersey to Colorado. You could see the Rocky Mountains when lesson number three showed up. That's right. And it's right. It got real. It got real. It hurt horribly. And the hurt doesn't go away. No, and that's why I want to share the lessons with your audience.

25:32You don't have to go do this because I'm laughing now, but when I had walked across Indiana, Illinois, and I'm into Missouri during a heat wave. A sunrise. And I'm into Kansas, and I could barely stand up in the morning. And for me, you know, the spider web that I had got myself tangled up in in my old life, I had to go through this metamorphosis in a painful way. It was just my path. But it's not needed. Physical pain is not a requirement for spiritual growth. For sure not. but in my case it was my path and i was in this place where my body every day would speak very clearly you know usually you should listen to your body but it was speaking to me very clearly stop what you're doing is hurting me mike but spirit was speaking to me even more clearly and it was saying keep going keep going so that became your mantra keep going keep going it still is keep going what up though just made it across the state line across missouri i am now in kansas let's go i walked across this you know state missouri during a heat wave and i walked across kansas i walked into coloride walked 1797 miles since that first step when ah you know this pain shot up my left leg.

27:07And that's when I heard a sound I didn't want to hear. I knew what the pain was. I realized I'd just been bitten by a poisonous rattlesnake. Time to take a quick break. When we come back, Mike Posner's Walk Across America comes to a life-threatening halt the moment a poisonous rattlesnake bit his leg. Can you imagine? Stick around, because you'll want to hear the inspiring life lesson he learned in that harrowing moment. That's next. Welcome from athletic stuff, like a full court pickup game. Swish to athletic stuff, like a half mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all.

27:50From athletic to athletic, Sierra's got it. Back to this episode of the Oprah podcast. I'm joined by Grammy nominated singer, songwriter and producer Mike Posner, whose hits like Cooler Than Me and I Took a Pill in Ibiza shot him straight to stardom right out of college. And I must say, he's a joy to talk to, a joy. We're going to hear what Mike learned about himself when he became famous. He was actually unhappy. So in an unconventional way of searching for happiness and inspiration, he decided to walk across America, coast to coast. Let's get back to Mike's fascinating story. Now, at first, I'm kind of playing it off, you know.

28:30And it's just you walking. No. I had invited my audience. I said, hey, if you find me, you can walk with me. Yeah. So people would come from all over the U.S. And sometimes they just wanted a picture with me, no problem. Sometimes it was like a scavenger hunt for them. You know, like it would be college kids on a weekend. Let's go see if we can find Posner. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it would just be people that didn't have anyone else to talk to. And I didn't really have anyone else to talk to either. So we would join. I think each attempting to alchemize our pain into beauty. So that particular day, there were two men with me.

29:16And then I have my walk manager who would go ahead of me each day. and so there were three people there and they're all freaking out i'm making jokes i'm like don't worry i'm thinking this is like a bee sting you know and did you actually see the rattlesnake i didn't see it never saw it i never saw it so there's two ways to get bit by a snake oprah one is if you're messing around with antagonizing it yeah which i didn't do the others to surprise it Yeah. And so it was the latter for me. Now they're saying, we got to call 911. I said, okay. And then they're like, we have no service. We have no service.

29:57Uh-oh. Now at this point, the darkness is starting to creep in from the edges of my awareness. It was just dark. And then it was black. I was gone. I was just gone. And then I'd wake up and I'd see, oh my gosh, I'm here. a ralph snake bite and one of the gentlemen said i ran up the road i got a bar service i called 911 and he was able to keep connection with her and he had the phone i said let me speak to them so he hands me his cell phone and i said to the voice on the other end of the phone i said to dispatch him am i going to die because at this point now i'm realizing this isn't a beast thing The voice on the other end of the phone said, I don't know, sir.