She Lost Her Mother at Age 11 and Taught Oprah a Lesson She Never Forgot

0:00This is Tom and his children, Zach and Kate. Tom lost his beloved wife, Kathleen, three months ago. Do you have letters that your mom wrote? I'm confident in the kind of wonderful woman you will become. With this knowledge, I have grown to actually be able to face death with a sense of peace. You'll help me get there because I know you'll be all right. At the end of the show, I asked 11-year-old Kate what was her favorite memory. About a week before she died, before she went into the hospital, I was in their room and sleeping, and I said, Mom, would you wake me up if you go downstairs to eat a bowl of cereal?

0:39She said, yeah. So at 2 o 'clock in the morning, we both went down and... Oh. The cheerio? Yeah. And in the end, what matters the most to the children, I believe, as Kate so eloquently shared with us, are the moments and the time. And it's not the jackets and the great big games and the vacations, but it's the time she spent with her mom eating a bowl of Cheerios. Kate is now married and a mother of two doors. Hi, Kate. Hi, Oprah.

1:11Hey there. Thank you for spending time with us here on The Oprah Podcast. Over 25 years of The Oprah Winfrey Show, we did it all, it all, makeovers. Incredible reunions. Giveaways. celebrity conversations. But more often than not, I will tell you, for me, the deeper aha moments came from everyday folks who just were there to share their stories on the show. And one of the most memorable for me was an 11-year-old girl named Kate who sat in the front row of our audience with her brother Zach and her father Tom just a few months after they had lost their mother Kathleen to cancer. and I'll catch up with Kate later in the podcast, but I've spoken with Kate and Zach many times over the years.

2:00Here's a look at the very first time we met. This is Tom and his children, Zach and Kate. Tom lost his beloved wife, Kathleen, just three months ago from lung cancer. Didn't smoke. Kathleen tried to pack a lifetime of experiences into one short year. And Tom says she died peacefully after passing along some valuable lessons. She wanted to have a good death, correct? Immediately after the unconceivable news, the diagnosis, we went into action in the way in which we coped with all other traumas before that, which was optimism and hope and focus on overcoming the somewhat insurmountable odds. And that's the sort of energy we brought to dealing with it initially.

2:46Yeah. But it turns out that that energy sort of stiff arms, as Mitch, you said, stiff arms what is really going on, which is the fears of the unimaginable. And once we understood that that's really what we needed to embrace, we got help, professional help, support at the Cancer Wellness Center. What we came to understand is that instead of coping with the fears, we had to wade into them. We had to face them. Ooh. And once we were able to learn how to do that, we became free of them. And it meant having conversations that were indescribable. But we had them, the four of us, the kids and Kathleen and I.

3:28We talked about funerals. Were you guys told in the beginning? How soon were you told that your mom had lung cancer? Yeah, the day. The day? Yeah. Yeah, they were in on it from the very beginning. And because we were able to open it up to the unimaginable fears, they didn't drive us any longer. They didn't control us. And we became free of fear and allowed us to be open to living in the moment. That was our secret to living in the moment is facing our fears and getting rid of them. And once we did, it became this fantastic cycle because it opened us up to pleasure and joy and love in ways that the four of us had never known.

4:10And it radiated among our family, our friends, our community. Really? Yeah. Really. So, kids, you have letters that your mom wrote? Yeah. I received this about, I don't know, a week after my mom died. and this is just a little part of it. 13-year-old boys don't need their moms too much, but they definitely need them from time to time. I so desperately wish I could be there for you in body, not just in spirit. Fortunately for me, I won't have to bear the indignity of ever losing and tickle torture to you, which no doubt would have happened in the near future. More seriously, though, while I think about your life without me, While it brings me sadness, it also brings me pride.

5:00You have developed such tremendous qualities in your brief life on Earth that I'm enormously gratified as I imagine you navigating your way even without me. Well, Kate, what's yours say? Keep me in your heart and hold me there in a way that gives you comfort, help, or support. If you do, I will never, ever leave you. I suspect I may even be able to help you during difficult times. If you just tap into me, I will be inside you, leaving you, loving you, and caring about you every single minute of every single day for as long as you live. That's about it, sweetie, because I know what a tremendous girl you are.

5:43I am confident in the kind of wonderful woman you will become. With this knowledge, I have grown to actually be able to face death with a sense of peace. You have helped me get there because I know you'll be all right.

6:05Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah podcast on YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's just a quick tap of the subscribe button. And that way you won't miss an episode in your queue. You don't have to pay anything. I know subscribe usually means you're paying something. But this time it means you just are notified when there's something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about. So thank you for watching and listening.

6:42Time for a quick break, listeners. Stay with us because I'm catching up with Kate a little bit later in the show. She's all grown up now and a mom herself. We're excited for the Oprah podcast to present this series, Life is Better with Dogs, in partnership with the Farmer's Dog. When he was 20 years old, Chad Brown joined the Navy and served for four years in combat zones overseas. Chad says his transition from military to civilian life was complicated by his severe PTSD. A lot of us veterans, we struggle with this a lot. It's the loneliness. I saw Axe for the first time. I fell on my knees and I actually was just bawling in tears.

7:28I don't think I would probably be here. You know, Axe has saved me. I always say, life is better with dogs. To hear more of Chattanax's story, scan the QR code or go to thefarmersdog.com slash Oprah podcast.

7:49Welcome back to the Oprah podcast. One of my favorite guests from the Oprah show was an 11-year-old girl named Kate, who told me a story about her mom and what I call the Cheerios moment. I experienced a big ha-ha from that conversation. So let's get back to Kate's story. Okay. Many of you probably saw this show and don't realize this, that after every show, I usually, or before the show, spend time talking to the audience. And so this part of the interview that I did a few weeks ago did not get on the air. I met Kate and Zach Collinger. They're two children who recently lost their mother to cancer.

8:26Their family spent an incredible final year together When they realized that their mother had cancer, when she realized that she had cancer, they decided to come together as a family, face the fact that she was going to be dying and to make it the greatest year of their lives, showing their love and to each other, saying the things that a lot of people spend a lifetime and never say and visiting as many wonderful places as they as they could. but this is really what got to me. At the end of the show, I asked 11-year-old Kate, what was her favorite memory? Because they'd been to lots of different places and they'd been to Palm Springs and Disney World and shared a lot of different things.

9:01And I said, what was your favorite memory? And here's what she told me. We went to Palm Springs for family vacation. And she was in bed, but I came home after swimming and she said, can you get me a bowl of Cheerios? And I said, sure. So I remember that. A bowl of Cheerios. She ate everything. Really? She got up at 2 o 'clock in the morning and went downstairs and ate. And about a week before she died, before she went into the hospital, I was in their room and sleeping, and I said, Mom, would you wake me up if you go downstairs to eat a bowl of cereal? She said, yeah. So at 2 o 'clock in the morning, we both went down and ate the cereal.

9:40Oh, that is really Cheerios. With a Cheerios? Yeah. Amazing. Amazing.

9:50I love Kate and Zach. And the reason why I wanted to share that with you is because I know a lot of you as parents today are stressed to the max because you're trying to get the right kind of gym shoes and you're trying to get the right kind of jackets and the right kind of clothes and the right kind of toys. And in the end, what matters the most to the children, I believe, as Kate so eloquently shared with us, are the moments and the time. And it's not the jackets and the great big games and the vacations, but it's the time she spent with her mom eating a bowl of Cheerios. I thought that was really profound.

10:26Time for a quick break, listeners. Coming up, the obstacles that almost derailed Kate as a young adult woman finding her way without her mother. More of her story is next. If you know somebody who could use a life-affirming reminder of what really matters, I encourage you to share this episode with them. This summer, Prime Video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school, and into the world of Elle Woods in high school. Set in 1995, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, 90s nostalgia, and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one thing.

11:04Law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world of Legally Blonde, watch Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video. Watch now. We're taking a look back on some of my favorite moments from The Oprah Show. One unforgettable young girl named Kate helped me realize that it may be those small moments in life that matter most. Well, Kate and Zach are now 15 and 17, and they say that the honest way their family handled their mother's death gave them priceless gifts for life. What was so extraordinary about that piece was that you all had taken the year off. Had you not taken some time off to be with your mom and you'd done, you know, gone to Disneyland and all that stuff?

11:44Yeah, we took some time just apart from we went to school. Obviously, we didn't miss any school, but we took some time just to be together. We took all those vacations, spring break and winter break. Those were just special times just to be together. Yeah. Well, that's why I was so impressed, because you've done all the big stuff. The people think it's the big stuff. Oh, my God, if I could just get the big gift, go to Disneyland. But it's the Cheerios moment that you remember. I don't even know. I know I would not be the person I am today. I mean, without the loss of my mom, and it's extremely hard to say.

12:17I mean, obviously, I would do anything to have her back. But, you know, I know that I'd probably be a little more self-involved and not as introspective as a person as I am now because of the death of my mom. Because of the death. And also in the open way in which you all treated it. It was talked about from the beginning. Yeah. We do everything. I mean, they... Every day, you know, what's new, you know, how's she doing? And how old were you when you first knew that she was sick and that this could happen? See, I was in fourth grade. I was ten. Mm-hmm. You know, it was a huge concept for me. I just didn't know how to deal with it, but we talked about it.

12:55Do you feel your mother's presence? Yeah. I mean, she's always there. You know, some days, you know, I don't think about her as much as others. And, you know, it's, you know, a hard thing because, you know, I want to think about her as much as I can. But, you know, she's given me a few little signs that I've wanted. So, you know, just having her here with me. I heard once when you were sick that you felt her very strongly. Yeah, I was at camp and the nurse told me to go lay down and I was feeling nauseous and, you know, just remembering, you know, how my mom used to take care of me. And I was lying down and sleeping.

13:28and a few minutes before I woke up, I felt like I saw someone. I was kind of half awake, you know, half sleeping. And I felt this enormous pressure on my head and it was kind of startling and I, you know, was shaken up and I woke up and I felt 100 % better. And, I mean, I looked around the room, no one was there. I went out, you know, to the porch and the nurse was there talking with another person and it was just, it's like, you made me better. I mean, she always did. Tom, you say the best advice you got when you found out that Kathleen was going to die was what? To be completely open? Yeah, actually, it was at the moment of having to deal with going to pick up the kids from school an hour after hearing what her diagnosis was.

14:15And so I looked for help. I said, how do I do this? And the counsel was, you don't need to say everything, but whatever you say, make it absolutely the truth. because that's the only thing you've got, it's the only link, is the truth. So that's what we did. And from that moment on, I was guided by that. And when they had the wherewithal to ask what they were ready to hear, they would ask. Like, is mom going to die? Right. Yeah. And it took about four or five days, and they asked that question. And I, it's the first time as a parent I had to protect myself from saying, it's going to be okay. Mm-hmm.

14:53So you told the truth. So I told the truth. You told the truth. And that decision I was talking about earlier, we were also impressed that you decided, family time, we're going to spend as many quality moments together as possible. That was a conscious effort on everybody's part. Well, it was, you know, in retrospect, I was also guided by the fact that I was worthless at work. I mean, I was worthless. So it was a very easy decision to make to be able to just stay at home. So I made the right choice. Well, thank you. I told you you're my favorites. Thank you, Kate and Zach and Tom. You're up there too, Tom.

15:28In 2016, we caught up with Kate, who was no longer a little girl at the time. She was 29 years old already, living in Chicago. Kate's simple Cheerios moment had a big impact on me, and I always remembered it. Today, that little Kate is 29 years old. My team caught up with her to find out how she is now. For a while after the show, I was the Cheerios girl. I mean, that was 18 years ago. There's been a lot of life that's happened since then. My family changed. The dynamic completely shifted. My dad was a workaholic. He sacrificed. He went from this high-powered advertising executive to taking a huge pay cut and became a professor at Northwestern so he could be available to take us to school and be at home at night to have dinner with us.

16:24I went from being a mommy's girl to being a daddy's girl. And he and my brother are my people. They're my tribe. So my freshman year of college, I went to Northwestern. I was in a deep depression. I wasn't getting out of bed. I wasn't showering. I was overeating. And I ended up seeing a psychiatrist for the first time in my life. And he put me on an antidepressant. And he said, if she's bipolar, this could flip her. Because for people who are put on antidepressants who are bipolar, it has the capacity to antidepress them so much that they'll be sent into a manic episode. And all of a sudden, I was feeling good.

17:07I didn't need therapy anymore. I didn't really need to eat because I wasn't really hungry anymore. I didn't need to sleep because I wasn't really tired anymore. I was engaging in risky behavior. In November 2005, I took a hallucinogenic drug with a friend and got in a car, blacked out. And I wake up and I'm pressing the accelerator of the car, having no idea why I wasn't going anywhere. And I look up and there's an electrical post about 10, 15 feet from my face. And they took me to the hospital and that was my induction into a 12-step program. And that was the beginning of a very long journey for me to get sober and stay sober.

17:58Because for a very long time, I felt like I could control it. For a very long time, I felt like the drug or the drink or whatever I ingested was going to change. It was going to be different next time.

18:13Today, it's about the choices that I make on a daily basis. proactive decisions that I make on a daily basis towards living a healthier, more balanced life. I have such a tremendous network of family and friends that are there on the other end of the line when I need them. Last night we were looking through this book that her dad had given her for her 18th birthday. It feels like it's been a very long road. I'm telling a very different story than than I did when I was 11 years old. And I have a different message to convey. I get up every morning and go to a job that I've held for almost two years, and I continue to have a lot of love and support.

18:57And my mother is a part of that. She passed away almost two decades ago, but she shows up for me when I hear It's a Wonderful World, you know? That was her favorite song. And that comes on sometimes exactly when I need it to, or the letter that she wrote to me before she passed away, she said she'd always be in my corner cheering me on. I think that inherent feeling that I had as a little girl when I talked about the Cheerios experience still is very present for me today. You know, it's not about the vacations or the money or whatever. It's about, you know, the intimate moment of connection that you have on a daily basis with the world around you.

19:42And it's the magnitude and scope of the relationships and love that I have in my life today with my family, who are friends and my friends who are family. That's what's so profound and important and incredible to me. After our last break, we're going to hear from Kate, who's now all grown up, married and raising her own children in Chicago. I'm talking with her next. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema, so I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about ebglyss? Ebglyss, Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema.

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21:07Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I wanted to share a lesson with you from the Oprah Winfrey show that has stayed with me all these years. I hope you'll get something out of it, too. So that was 10 years ago. Kate is now married and a mother of two daughters. Hi, Kate. Hi, Oprah. Oh, my goodness. It's nice to see your face. So good to talk to you again. Here we are 30 years later talking about that Cheerios moment. Why do you think that that lesson resonated like it did? I mean, especially being a mom now. Yeah. I was with Remy on our bed yesterday, like having a tickle torture fight. And I remember when my mom and I were, you know, in the last years of her life.

21:46God, I vividly remember this. And I don't have many memories of my childhood because of the trauma that I experienced. But I remember she was probably a few months before she passed away. And I said, Mom, we'd go, we'd have tickle torture fights all the time. And I'd say, Mom, can you just like get on the ground? And I remember seeing her face like, I want to do this right now, but she was in so much pain. So she kind of like got on the floor with me. And like, you know, it wasn't with the same enthusiasm as she once had. But she was just wanting to recreate some of that magic that I had as a child with her.

22:21And being able to just like tickle, torture Remy on the bed yesterday, which just like, I mean, I have to make a muscle memory of that moment. This is going by so fast. Motherhood is going by so fast. Because you have two gorgeous little girls now, Remy and Macy. And how has having the children shifted your relationship, you feel, with your own mom? My cousin actually asked me this question when I had recently had Macy, which was not too far after Remy. and you know I think initially when I was coming out of the darkness as I was you know 10 years ago I was really just re-emerging from a lot of struggle and I didn't see or feel when you're in those times of darkness you don't see and feel that magic and spiritual connection at least I didn't as much with my mother but being able to be a mother now and being able to incorporate her memory in the way that I live my life today is so magical.

23:25Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. So how's your brother, Zach and your dad, Tom, who is a grandpa now? TT. Yeah. So he actually wanted to be called TC, but Remy couldn't get that out and being the first born, that's just what you're going to be named now, dad. So TT, she got to do it. She got to name it. And my brother, my brother lives in Austin, travels internationally for work. My dad is finally back in Chicago after spending the winter in Tucson where he spends his time with his wife. And we're just going through the daily motions of trying to get together as often as possible as a family. I heard he was the officiant at your wedding.

24:03Yeah, Zach was the officiant at our wedding. You know, that wedding, I think daily my husband Pat and I talk about this wedding. I mean, it was so magical. And Zach was such a shepherd of that magic into that day. It was really just, it was a spiritual, just, I am an anxious human being. And I have to tell you that I walked down the aisle with such a sense of, I got this piece because I knew what I was doing. I knew what I was, what I was celebrating, not just the wedding itself, but the accomplishments of a lifetime of being able to overcome so much trauma and strife and walking towards pat seeing my brother at the end on this gorgeous summer day to the music of what a wonderful world which was my mother's favorite song dancing to because you love me by celine dion you know with my dad at my wedding like reading an excerpt of the letter that my mom wrote to me before she passed away at the end of the aisle like during the ceremony being able to incorporate her in so many beautiful ways.

25:12And then to have my brother who is like my, he's my person. I mean, sorry, Pat, but like, he's my OG, you know, it was magical. It was a magical start to an incredible marriage and relationship that I have with my husband. So do you still have that little hat? Did you keep that little hat? The hat that I wore on the original show? Yeah. No, I honestly, I was like, where did that hat go? And I was, it's so funny because I got to pick out what I was wearing that day as a mighty 11 year old. And that just was the one that I chose. And I think I worked during my mom's room that she had dedicated to her at a cancer center, you know, when she was alive.

25:52And I don't have that hat anymore. I know. I just remember you from that, like that cute little hat. You're one of the few people that ever came on the show. I don't remember anybody else ever wearing a hat. So it's always like Kate and Zach in the hat. So So we spoke with your brother, Zach, and I wanted to share what he told us about you. He said, my sister and my dad are the rocks in my life. They've been guiding forces through everything. And Kate's resilience is something I learn from every day. And seeing her now married with two children and building a life is just incredible, especially knowing what she went through.