Sophie Chen Keller: "Little Wonder" | Oprah's Book Club

0:00For the first two years of my son's life, I was just completely consumed by mothering in the very best ways and also in challenging ways. I was sleeping one or two hours at a time, and so I learned just how much exhaustion I could carry around. My son was an intense, sensitive baby, so he did a lot of screaming. Oh, that's how you describe it, okay. Okay. It was intense and sensitive, yes. So I just had the sense that my life no longer belonged to me. I missed my old life and my old self. You're describing all young mothers, yes. So I opened up my laptop, opened up a Word doc, and I started writing this book.

0:40And you did so well. Hi, everybody. It's wonderful to be here with you on the Oprah podcast. This year, we are celebrating the 30th anniversary of Oprah's Book Club. Let's just...

1:02I'm in awe of that. All thanks to all of you who have been reading with me for now 30 years. And I think that reading is one of the great joys of life. And we have many more fantastic books coming up this year. So much more to come. But it is my pleasure to share my 124th book club selection, Little Wonder, Little Wonder, by Sophie Chen Keller. The novel is actually a big wonder, full of a lot of astonishing drama. It's the story of a mother and her young son, who is a piano prodigy. And they become separated by forces beyond their control in Beijing, China. It's an extraordinary journey about a mother's love, really.

1:56And it's about perseverance and the transformative power of music. Welcome Sophie Chen Keller to the Oprah podcast. Thank you so much for having me. So glad to have you here.

2:10So I have to say, everyone in our audience has read the book. I'd love to hear from a few of you. So Shelby, what did you think? Hi, Oprah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. Sophie, I loved your book. I could speak forever about how much I love overall what you had written, but I actually wanted to touch on a smaller detail that really resonated with me personally. I'm a tap dancer professionally, which means I'm a musician and more specifically a percussionist. And so I've often noticed the rhythms in the world around me in a way that maybe others wouldn't. And so I particularly loved and was so intrigued by your choice to have River noticing the inanimate objects around him as music notes, like a horn honking at a G flat.

2:58And that was such a nice reminder throughout the book as to what a musical prodigy River was. And it was in those small details that you wrote that I found the book to be particularly special. yeah you know i never even thought of that because i'm not like musically inclined at all so i don't know a g flat from a c so uh it's interesting that that's the way you look at the world too is that the way you hear things yeah um well as a tap dancer i notice the rhythms more so than the notes um so i might notice that we're in triplets like a train track is moving in triplets versus hearing the notes like like river does yeah one end up two end up really oh that's pretty cool Hi, Oprah.

3:42Hi, Sophie. I loved your book. The character that I resonated with the most was obviously River. I'm a child of immigrants. And like River's mother growing up, I feel like my mom, who was also a single mother, like she gave up so much and sacrificed so much that so that I could grow up with better circumstances than what she grew up in. In the book, River talks about how it only takes two people to make a world. And I found it really meaningful that despite the circumstances of the story and despite how much time they spend apart, the world that Song and River share is made up of love and playfulness and music.

4:18So I really love that. Yeah, I love the names too, don't you? Song and River. All right, so let's get to it. You were born in China and raised in California and Ohio. Yes. And you grew up with your mother reading to you, And that's what gave you a love for writing. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I came to the U.S. when I was four. And so my first language was Mandarin Chinese. I didn't speak any English yet. And so to help me learn, my mom would check out stacks of books from the library. And every night before bed, she would spend an hour reading out loud to me until she lost her voice. And so I grew up loving these children's classics like James and the Giant Peach and Charlotte's Web.

5:02and as soon as I could hold a pencil, I was scribbling little stories of my own. If anyone asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I said, I want to be a writer. And when I was 13, I wrote a short story about a pedicab driver in rural China, and this story was just plucked out of the slush pile by the editors at Glimmer Train Literary Magazine, and that became my first publication. You were 13, did you say? Yeah, I was 13 about the story. And the issue came out when I was in high school. I remember bringing author copies. That's got to be just so exciting when you get published. I was so excited.

5:39And I was handing these issues to my friends and teachers. But then when I went to college, I thought I'd better be practical. And so I majored in economics. And after graduating, I worked for a few years in the corporate world. And before my husband and I were married, we were talking about our dreams for the future. And we thought, why not pursue those dreams today? We'll hold hands and close our eyes and just take this jump together. And so we both quit our jobs. And he went back to graduate school. And I started writing what became my first book. His dream was to go to graduate school. Well, he worked in finance originally.

6:17And he wanted to save the world. And so he went back to graduate school and majored in law and diplomacy. And yours was to write. And mine was to write. It always has been. And so that was, you know, almost 10 years ago and it all came. So how did you, so it's one thing to dream, but you got to eat. So how did you, how did you plan on taking care of yourself? It was really my husband enabled it all. He likes to save. He's German, frugal. So. Okay. Okay. So Little Wonder, your second novel, and you started writing this book, I understand when you were in, you were staying for a while in Beijing.

6:56Yes. So in 2019, we moved from New Jersey to Beijing. My son was four months old at the time. And we're moving for my husband's work. And when I got to China, this version of China in 2019 was totally different from the China I remembered as a child. The city was super modern and clean and beautiful. At the same time, the air pollution was so heavy, you could see it hanging like a thick fog. And I saw lots of very rich people living alongside lots of very poor people. And regardless of their socioeconomic status, everyone lived these technologically advanced lives. You know, they would just leave their homes in the morning with only a phone in their pocket.

7:42There was no need for a wallet. Everything was virtually cashless. I remember the first time I saw a beggar collecting change, not in a styrofoam cup, but with a QR code. And you would scan it and just send the money directly into their mobile wallet. Is that what beggars are doing now? Some of them were. And I was, yeah. Have you all seen that? I have not. Beggars with a QR code. Okay. And you scan the QR code to give the beggars money? Yeah. It's actually very, very easy and convenient. Okay. All right. So we settled into our new routines there. And as part of mine, I would take my son out for these long walks because he napped in a moving stroller.

8:28So I would just walk around for two hours and observe everything around me. And I was struck by just the sheer number of delivery workers that filled the streets and delivery workers of all kinds. There would be package delivery workers and they would just set up shop in the middle of the sidewalk surrounded by all their boxes and their bubble wrap. And there would be grocery delivery workers. There were the food delivery workers. They normally wore bright yellow uniforms and they would literally sprint past me in the streets carrying their orders. And I was really curious about them. I wondered if they made their delivery on time.

9:07And I wondered. Were they on bikes? No, on foot. They would hold their bags on foot, literally sprinting past me as I pushed my little stroller. Wow. Yeah, and I wondered where they had come from. I wondered what their stories were and what the job was like and what their lives were like. And so I just followed my wonder. And that was the beginning of who Song would be. You followed your wonder. Is that why it came? That's where the title came from. The title actually came at the end, after the manuscript was done. and as I was brainstorming ideas, this phrase little wonder jumped out at me because it just encapsulates the way we feel when we're holding a little baby and looking into that little face.

9:54It's just full of awe and affection. So how did the story of the mother and the son come to you? Well, at the time, I had just become a mom. Yeah. And motherhood was all I was thinking about. You know, for the first two years of my son's life, I was just completely consumed by mothering in the very best ways and also in challenging ways. I learned just how much love I could carry around. But to go with that, how much worry, you know, everything. I was constantly Googling various symptoms and everything became a potential problem that had to be solved. and, you know, I was sleeping one or two hours at a time.

10:39And so I learned just how much exhaustion I could carry around. My son was an intense, sensitive baby. So he did a lot of screaming. Oh, that's how you describe it. Okay. I'll tell you. Intense and sensitive. Yes. A lot of screaming. Got it. And the only thing that consoled him was bouncing on this yoga ball. So I would all day and all night just hold him on my shoulder and bounce him on this yoga ball. And for the first year of his life, he had a cow's milk protein allergy, which meant that I had to cut dairy and soy out of my diet. And so I just had the sense that my life no longer belonged to me.

11:24And I missed my old life and my old self where I could eat whatever I wanted. I could use the bathroom by myself in peace. I could be describing all young mothers. Yes. Yeah. And have a cup of coffee without microwaving it five times before getting a chance to finish it. And, you know, as it turns out, time just keeps going on and everything is temporary. Every hard phase passes. And one day baby is just older. And then you start incorporating elements of the old self into the new one. Yeah. And for me, that happened in earnest when my son started daycare. And I went from having no time to myself to suddenly having this glorious stretch of hours every morning.

12:11And so I opened up my laptop, opened up a Word doc, and I started writing this book. And I got to talk about all those motherhood-related things I had been dying to talk about. And you did so well. So how do you write? Do you write like every day or? Yeah, I like structure. So I have a simple routine. I try to keep two. I have a cup of coffee in the morning and then I start writing. And the most important thing for me is that I have no distraction. And so I do my writing from bed because this is the place where no one is bothering me. And I'm totally relaxed and comfortable. I'm not distracted by a squeaky chair or my back hurting or anything.

12:55And I can just totally focus on the words on the screen. And the other thing I need is to have a long stretch of time to produce a short stretch of words. I do about 700 words a day, and it takes me five, six, seven, eight hours to produce that. I think my brain is like a slow cooker, and it just slowly breaks down the scene and lets the emotions and elements mingle and hopefully deepen. Wow. Every day, though, you do it. Monday through Friday, every day. But I have become less precious about my routine now that I have two kids. When the edits for Little Wonder came in, my daughter was four months old.

13:41And so I did those edits with her sleeping on my chest, and I would type one-handed on my laptop. I was still in bed, so this was the similar part of the routine. Wow. We want to really talk about what the book, the story is about without giving away too much. So set up the characters for us and the plot. Sure. So the book starts with a mother, Song, and her 11-year-old son, River, and he's a piano prodigy. Did it take you a long time to decide those names or did those names come to you? They came to me pretty easily. Okay. Yeah. And they get separated in a crowded train station in Beijing over the Chinese New Year.

14:25And there are so many people traveling during this period of time that it's been called the biggest human migration on the planet. So the train station is packed and they're not able to find each other again. And so they spend, you know, years of their lives searching for each other while having to make new and very different lives for themselves. So this is so interesting. When I was reading the book for the first time, I had to Google Beijing train station because I couldn't understand how you could just lose somebody in a train station and then you're never going to see them again. Yeah. It's a big train station.

15:03It's a big train station. Also, there are just so, so many people. There are like millions of people. Yeah, there are a lot of people. And, you know, so much of this book hinges on injustice and inequality. And that's part of the reason they can't find each other, because Song is who she is. Because she is. In her mind, she's a nobody and people don't care about her. I didn't understand in the beginning. Why wouldn't they just go on Facebook? Well, Chinese, the Chinese do have social media, but they don't have American Western social media apps. They don't have a Facebook equivalent. The way their social media works is in order to find someone, you need to have their QR code to scan or you need their number or at least be in sort of the same social circles.

15:54Otherwise, you know, there are so many people. There aren't that many names. You know, you would never find her. It's like a needle in a haystack. That's why. Yeah. All right. Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. that means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah podcast on YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's just a quick tap of the subscribe button and that way you won't miss an episode in your queue. You don't have to pay anything. I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something new.

16:36There are many more to come that we're excited about. So thank you for watching and listening. We need to take a short break. When we return, Sophie shares about her own experience healing from thyroid cancer and how it inspired parts of the book. Stay with us. Thank you for listening to the Oprah podcast. I'm with Sophie Chin Keller. She's the author of my 124th Oprah's Book Club pick, Little Wonder. Let's get back to our conversation. So readers say that you have this uncanny ability to write from the point of view of the child, especially boys. You were able to do that in your first novel. What is that, do you think?

17:13There are periods of my life that I remember especially vividly, and childhood is one of them. Really? Yeah. At the time, we were living in Columbus, Ohio, and my parents were graduate students, so we lived in this housing complex for graduate student families similar to ours. And I remember the friends I made there. And I remember playing with them all day in the summers until the sunset. And I remember, you know, catching fireflies. I remember how big the world seemed and how magical these bedtime stories were. And so it was easy for me to access memories of that magical time. Wow. And actually, the first versions of this book had much less of River's perspective.

18:05It was mainly Song's journey and Song's story. And with each iteration of the book, River's role grew. And that's because Song's life is difficult. And her perspective can start feeling quite heavy. But River, as a child, he approaches the world with openness, with more wonder. and so the world takes on this almost magical quality. And is he a musical prodigy because you liked music? Exactly, yes. Okay. Yeah, I drew a lot of parallels between my own musical background and River's journey as a pianist. So you grew up with piano? So I started learning the piano when I was seven years old. My mom signed me up for group piano lessons at the local library and, you know, I enjoy the lessons And so she found a private instructor for me and she bought me a used piano for$500.

19:04And, you know, at the time they were teaching assistants. My parents brought you a used piano. This is important. She brought you a used piano for$500. She was only making$900. Exactly. She was only making$900. My dad as well,$900 each. And so we didn't have the resources to spare for things like this. But my mom did it. I just wanted to share that because that's a lot. If you're only making$900, a piano costs$500. It's a big sacrifice. You've got to sacrifice and sacrifice and sacrifice for your daughter to be able to have piano lessons. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I understand too that a few years ago you had thyroid cancer.

19:41Right. Now you're cancer free. Yes. Happy to hear that. It's a very treatable form.

19:49Weren't you like when you were first diagnosed with the cancer, you didn't know it was so easily treatable. And you had some moments of not despair, but at least feeling not like yourself. Right. Yeah. And were able to overcome that. Yes. You know, I think that so with this book, it's been a long journey. It's been a long winding and bumpy road. My first book came out almost 10 years ago. and in the next few years, I worked on a different book. And my agent at the time, my first agent, he didn't like it and he dropped me. And then I spent years working on Little Wonder and my second agent saw an earlier version of Little Wonder and she didn't like it.

20:40She dropped me too. And in the midst of all of that, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. And, you know, each time I was knocked back, I thought about the story that I wanted to tell. and how I can make it more powerful. And each time the thought of implementing those changes made me excited. And I kept reminding myself in any good story, you have to face obstacles and you have to keep going and you have to face more obstacles and you still have to keep going and you have to hit rock bottom and you still have to keep going before things can turn around. And so for me, the difference between despairing and giving up and persisting and keeping the faith was not so much the things that happened to me, how many good, how many bad, but the narrative I could tell myself of the things that happened to me and the way I could connect and interpret those events.

21:35That's how we're supposed to live life. It's not about what happens, but it's your response to what happens. So every time you were set back. You didn't give up. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And then I called. Oh my gosh. I can't believe it still. I can't believe I'm sitting here talking to you. And you've said that that experience of having thyroid cancer informed the mother, Song, and Song's Journey. Tell us how. So when I started writing the book, I didn't know what exactly Song's journey would look like. I didn't have the plot points mapped out and I didn't know where things were headed. I just took it a day at a time.

22:20And as I was approaching the end, I felt like it would be bittersweet because a straightforward happily ever after is just not in the cards for someone like Song. But I tried one way and it wasn't working and I tried rewriting a different way and it still wasn't resonating. And around that time, I went to the doctor for my normal annual checkup. And you know how they feel along the sides of your neck? Yeah. And this time she was feeling and she found a lump and it turned out to be thyroid cancer. And I was totally shocked because I'm in my 30s and I had no other complaints. But luckily, thyroid cancer is very treatable.

23:03So as you said, I'm back to 100%. But going through all of that, I understand now what it feels like to... Do you have to do chemotherapy or... No, they do. They remove the thyroid. It's thyroidectomy. And then you do what's called radioactive iodine therapy. Yeah. But I understand now what it feels like to carry around this uncertainty as you're waiting for your diagnosis and you're waiting for surgery and treatment. You're waiting to recover. Then you're waiting for your follow-ups. And you have to do all of this waiting while carrying out your normal day-to-day life. You have to take care of the kids.

23:40Because life does not stop. It doesn't. Anybody who's had cancer or been ill understands that. Yeah, exactly. And so I drew on all of that as I wrote Song's Journey as she is waiting to find her son while, you know, at the same time I'm trying to build a new life for herself. And I drew on it, especially with the ending. You know, Song doesn't get thyroid cancer, but I hope my specific emotional truth is what makes her journey feel authentic and universal. It's time now for a break. Up next, Sophie Chin Keller answers questions from readers and reveals how her study of music inspired this poignant story.

24:21More on that when we come back. This summer, Prime Video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school, and into the world of Elle Woods in high school. Set in 1995, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is, until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, 90s nostalgia, and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one thing. Law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world of Legally Blonde, watch Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video. Watch now. Thank you for listening to the Oprah podcast. We're talking about my latest book club selection, Little Wonder by author Sophie Chen Keller.

25:01Here we go. Well, this entire audience has read the book. That must feel good as a writer, right? Oh, it's amazing. This is the first, you know, early feedback. So it's just it's really cool. The book has been just mine for so long. And now it's now it belongs to us. So the whole audience has read the book and so many people have questions for you. Julie, what's your question? Well, Oprah, if I can tell you first that I've been learning from you since I was eight and you are not only the best teacher that I've ever had, but the greatest influence in my life outside of my immediate family. And I just, my goal was to just say thank you.

25:37So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for that. And Sophie, I think you may have touched on my question. Did you say eight years old you've been watching? 47. Yeah. Sorry.

25:49I appreciate that. Yes. But Sophie, I am a new empty nester. And I am loving this season of life after being a stay at home mom. But I know a lot of other mothers are really struggling with purpose and finding their purpose after their children leave home. And in your story, Song seems to devote her entire life to River and is lost without him. Were you trying to explore the idea that motherhood can both fulfill and erase a woman at the same time? I think motherhood can change our lives and ourselves into something different and even unrecognizable at times. I think for Song, this concept of balancing being a mom with having a life outside of the kids is not at all on her mind because her life simply does not allow for it.

26:49She spends nearly every waking moment working to survive and support her family. She doesn't have the time or the resources to cultivate a hobby or go on vacation or even meet a friend for coffee. You know, her courtship with Blue, they don't sit down and have a meal together or go out and do a fun activity. They are getting to know each other while walking to and from from work. All right. Laferne. Yes. Thank you, Oprah. What an amazing story. I never thought when I started reading that I would see so many parallels with my own life. I went back to the days when I started playing piano. I played musical instruments from a young age.