The Life Lessons Maya Angelou Taught Oprah

31:27That has all and everything to do with the perpetuator. Right. And he or she or they are going to get their living out of you getting your dying. And so obviously you can't give in to that because you are not in it. And, you know, it happens to people who are in every walk of life, not just people who spend their lives like, you know, I do on television every day, but I hear little girls who are going to school and people are talking about them in class or when people are making fun of you or your neighbors. We did this show not too long ago where there's a click in the neighborhood or a click in the office, but the lesson is always the same.

32:09You're not in it. It's true. They would have done that without you. This is what you have to realize. And this is true of the rape victim. You see, it runs that understanding is as broad as life is. So that the rape victim so often thinks that she is in it or he is in it. That same rapist would have done somebody else. Another one of the things you've taught me is that I love that phrase that you say, that people will try to peck you to death like ducks. Yeah. Not just out. Most people don't have the courage to just come out and kill you. And kill you. That's true. They will take a little piece of your knee.

32:51Yeah. They'll take the flange off your nostril and a bit of the lobe of your ear, hoping that you didn't even notice it, you see. And that's called blow, bite and blow. That means that you blow on something until it becomes anesthetized, quickly bite and then blow again. And the person doesn't even know he's been bitten. You see, West Africans call that blow, bite, and blow. So people do that. And that's my son's phrase, pecked to death by ducks. Pecked to death by ducks. By ducks. Have people tried to do that to you? Oh, many times. Many times. I mean, it hasn't stopped. I'm sure that it's happened today.

33:34But the thing is, I encourage you.

33:41and I have two other people who I consider daughters and the Black Rose in San Francisco and a girl, a woman in West Africa, Araba. If I could have had daughters, you three would have been the three I'd have chosen. My encouragement is to stop it as soon as you hear it, as soon as you sense, this person wants me dead. The person just walks in and says, oh, you're putting on weight, huh? You say, stop it. Not me, you don't. Not me, Jack. Not me. Not me, out. Get out. Now, I have lost or left a lot of men who, you know, just in public would say something like, well, Maya, I don't know why she wore that dress.

34:34This is not the dress that stood on her. I said, that's the end. That's it. So the man then, when we get home, because I start packing his clothes, he says, you take everything to the max. I say, yes, because I know that once you take that flange off my nostril, pull one patch out of my hair, and I don't say anything, the next thing you'll have me bald. Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, that just happened to me the other day. I was someplace, somebody was asking me to do something. This woman, I didn't even know her, and she says, Oh, but you know me. And I said, But no, I don't really...

35:09I don't. I'm not sure. She says, But I knew you when. I knew you when you were barefoot, and you were walking back... And I was thinking, Oh, she wants me. Yeah, exactly. She wants me dead. Exactly. She wants me dead. This is it. But I didn't have the courage to do that. I didn't have the courage to say, Stop it. You must. You do them a favor. Not only yourself. You do them the favor of not having to do that again to somebody who will actually knock their heads off. You understand? Yes, I do. You really do them a favor. The best thing to do is stop them in their tracks. She will stop you, babe.

35:43Just say, stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Oh, she knew how to do that. I will say that. Yeah, I turned 72 this year, and I've never felt better in my adult life. What I do know for sure about this seventh decade is that you understand that while you may be closer to the end of your life. You value the time that you've had and you have value for the time that remains, an even greater value, I think. I feel I was here to earn my wings, actually. And I've paid attention and been observant. That's one of the first things that Maya Angelou said to me when we met all those years ago. She said, I can see that you are a girl and what you are is obedient.

36:33You are obedient to the call. So I really felt that in my bones when she said that because I have been obedient to the call. I have a call, you have a calling, we all do, but the question is will you be obedient to the call or will that brought you here to the planet or will you resist that and try to tell it what you're supposed to do? So when Maya was in her 70s, I was approaching my 50s, and here's what she had to say about aging. What does 74 feel like? It's so wonderful. It is so good. I thought the 50s were hot. Until I reached the 60s. Uh-huh. The 60s are out there. They're out there. Whoo!

37:31But then when I reach the 70s, I now know the 70s. You want to reach the 70s. Everybody stay alive, reach the 70s. I tell you.

37:49Because, because does it, do you feel age? You know, this is a society that so puts, you know, age and aging, and we're so concerned about it. But do you feel, is there a point where you say, oh, yes, I'm now an older woman? No. There are some things that have not escaped me. Pain has not. Ecstasy has not. Satisfaction has not. Disappointment has not. Fear has not. Courage has not. So there are some things which have not escaped me. So that keeps you young. Mm-hmm. If you start thinking that you know it and nobody can tell you anything, you've found the one way, and you can call all others false, it's already over.

38:35Mm-hmm. It's already too late. You have become old. Mm-hmm. At 18, at 25... When you think you know everything. Yeah. But when you really... But you do know a lot. Well, I've been around a long time. You do know a lot. You've been around a long time, and you've paid attention. Like, it's so interesting, though, because people say to me, they say, when you call her up and you talk to her, does she talk like she talks when she's... And it is true. Many times I call them, and I'm like, just the other day, yesterday's the morning, I'm like sitting at my kitchen table, and she just starts a conversation.

39:07I go, let me get a pencil. Write this down, and while she's talking, and then she goes, are you there, babe? I go, yes, I'm here. It seems so clear on my 74th to see a little bit. It seems so clear. Do you get clearer as you get older? You do. You get clearer. About, you know, a little bit, but not much. Listen, that's not why. I mean, don't get older just to get wiser. If you get older, you will be wiser. I believe that. If you pay attention. If you dare. If you dare. If you dare. Yeah. But get older because it's fun. It's fun. Yes. It's great fun. Now today I was so, yes, well, you know, the body is going.

39:55But I mean, you know that. So what? Yeah. No life lives forever, you know? So my knees are gone, okie dokie. And I find that, you know, my hair has changed a lot. And that. And the breasts are very interesting. Yes, well, because they are in an incredible race. They're in an incredible race to see which one will touch my waist first.

40:36And it's fun. Living is fun. Oh, that's fun? Yes, that's fun, too. I shouldn't have run for it. Yes. But you know, if you put it in your mind that it's fun, it's fun. It's fun. But if you think, oh, yeah. You know why it's fun? Because you're still here. Still here. I'm still here. I'm still here, and somebody's still calling me darling. Ain't that the show? Oh, that's the thing. Yeah, you're somebody still calling you darling. So in 2013, I spoke with Maya Angelou on Super Soul for a two-part special. It would be one of my last public conversations with her. We talked about so many of her lessons, including forgiveness.

41:19This is a big one. Forgive everybody. Just forgive it. I mean, mind you, we ask the Creator... Yes. ...to forgive. Yes. Our stupidest actions. Yes. Cruelest, mean-hearted things. And say, God, forgive me. Forgive me. Or people will say, I'm not perfect yet. That's right. So then you forgive, and it relieves you. You are relieved of carrying that burden of resentment. You really are lighter. You feel lighter. You just drop that. Drop it. So I would encourage her to forgive. Forgive. That's the first thing. then you're free to do other things, to have some ambition and so forth. Because forgiveness, I know you often say love liberates us, but actually forgiveness does.

42:17Also. Yes. I mean, you can't forgive without loving. Yes. And I don't mean sentimentality. I don't mean mush. I mean, having enough courage to stand out and say, I forgive. I'm finished with this. I had to get to a place where I could forgive the man who had raped me when I was seven years old. I had to get there. And that was a matter of incredible mental gymnastics. And then I had to think of what I had done to other people and see how I'd been forgiven. Whatever I've done, I've been forgiven. And I have to get at least to a place where I can forgive. I don't forget, and I will not put myself in a situation where that can be done to me again.

43:15But I understand. So, as we list all of your achievements, the first black streetcar conductor, dancer, singer, poet, playwright, film producer, director, actor, civil rights activist, professor of American studies at Wake Forest University, recipient of more than 70 honorary doctorate degrees, and author of more than 30 books. Is there anything you wanted to have on that list but didn't get a chance to do? One of the things I wanted was to have a daughter. I have a son who is in my heart. Wonderful young man, wonderful person. Good human being, daring and loving and strong and kind. I wanted a daughter.

44:03And I've taken people's daughters. I have certainly taken you. I took my daughter-in-law because I know I'm a good mother. I care and I dare. I care enough to let you go, but I dare enough to follow you. I will say that too. And I will say, you know, one of my, part of my nature is to be obedient. I'm obedient to God's call. And over the years, when I would call you for advice, sometimes I would take it. I know it. Most often I would take it. Most often I took it, right? Yes, that's true. And sometimes I didn't. But you have never been the kind of mother that says, I told you so. No. So when I didn't take it, and the mistake inevitably happened, You were not the kind of mother to come back and say, I told you.

44:53No, but you were the kind of daughter who said, I was wrong. I was wrong. I should have listened. I should have listened. First of all, have you ever tried and failed at something? Yes, many times. Many times. You forgive yourself for every failure. Yes. Because you tried to do the right thing. God knows that and you know it. Yeah. Nobody else may know it. Yeah. Well, because one of the great lessons that I've learned from you, when you know better, you do better. That's the ticket. That's the ticket. That's it. And that's why you forgive yourself. Yes, ma 'am. Because if you'd known better...

45:25I'd have done better. Yes. Of course. One of the things that strikes me most about Maya Angelou's life is how at six feet tall, she was six feet barefoot, she moved through the world with an unshakable kind of calm and confidence. And in one of her poems, she writes about another woman. And she says of that woman, she had a certain way of being in this world. And I think Maya also did. She had a certain way of being in this world, the way she moved and carried herself. I'll never forget the time that I was at a party at her house. I was at many gatherings at her house. she always used to have a big huge Thanksgiving dinner with you know 100 people coming from all over the country but I was there one evening when she actually kicked someone out of her house after they made an offensive joke I mean it was it was mind-shattering to see that happen because we've all been in the midst of somebody telling a joke that is an inappropriate joke it shouldn't be said, and you kind of, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, or you turn or walk away or whatever, but not Maya.

46:46She heard from across the room somebody telling this joke and comes across the room to ask them to leave her home. Tell me this. You say words are things and that they're so powerful. Do you have a favorite word? Oh, love. Love is your favorite word. Yeah, maybe. Are there words that you, Maya Angelou, as a writer, just like the sound of? I like murmur. You like murmur? M-U-R-M-U-R. Yeah, it sounds good, doesn't it? It does sound good. Murmur. You can't shout murmur. It is murmur, murmur. You can't shout murmur? No. The one thing that I think that I have admired and loved about you that I couldn't articulate, it just occurred to me now.

47:32Now, I remember once being in your house and somebody was telling a joke. And you were on the other, we had a party. It was a lot of noise in the room. And they were making, telling a joke. And it was a racist, homosexual joke. And you stopped the party. First of all, I couldn't believe, I was like, how can she hear that? And she's all the way over there. But you stopped the party and asked the person to excuse themselves and leave your house. Yes, exactly. I say, is this your coat? Did you come with anyone? Both of you come this way. I know. Oh, yes. No, no, no. No, no, no. So, and everybody else is like, whoa, what just happened?

48:16And then you said to all of us, I will not allow it in my house. That's right. It's vulgarity and it's poison. And this is what a person must know. I know there are black people who say, oh, you can use the N-word to me because I'm black. No, it is poison. All of that, any racial pejorative, sexual pejorative, any of that stuff, is created to make a person less than human. And that means it's poison. Nobody can use it safely. I mean, if poison is poison that you get from a pharmacy, and it has P-O-I-S-O-N on it, and skull and bones... Yes. You can't take that content and pour it into Bavarian crystal and make it otherwise.

49:03It's still poison. Yes. And you don't want it. Cling to the walls. Get into the upholstery in your clothes. And sooner or later, right into you. Right into you. Yes, ma 'am. Okay, so this is what I want to know. Where did you get the courage to not allow it in your space? Because there have been many of you are watching right now. People say things that make you uncomfortable. They start a joke that's gonna be, you know it's leading down a racial path or homophobic path or whatever, and people just sort of, people laugh nervously at it because they don't know how to stop it. How do you stop it?

49:37You don't stop it by doing it immediately. You develop courage. Courage, Oprah, is the most important of all the virtues. Because without courage, you cannot practice any other virtue consistently. You can be anything erratically, now and then. Kind, fair, true, generous, just blah, blah. But to do that thing time after time. So what you do is you do it in small ways. I mean, if you wanted to pick up a hundred pound weight, you wouldn't just go, you'd start picking five pounds, then ten pounds, then twenty pounds. Well, that's the same way you do with courage. You do a courageous thing, a small one, and you like yourself.

50:19And then you do another two or three. And you like yourself better. And before you know it, you're able to say, excuse me, not in my house, you don't. You don't paint my walls with poison and vulgarity. You will not do it in my house. Out. Is this your purse? Thank you. Oh, my goodness. Bye. I've seen it. I know. Because you believe that words are things. Yes, ma 'am. I know they are. They are things. Absolutely. You can put some words together and make people want to go to war. Put another few words and make them long for peace. Words are so important. And this is what you take to God. Words.

51:00You may not frame them, but God knows your heart. So when you go down on your knees or in your bed or riding in a car and you pray, you're using words, I'm lonely, I'm hungry, I'm lost, I'm in pain. Whatever your words are, help. They are words. They inform not only God, but anybody around you, how you really feel. They are able, you're able to speak in nuances. Yeah, so be careful how you use them. Yes, ma 'am. Because they carry the power. Yes, ma 'am. Yeah. Yes, ma 'am, indeed. Well, after I opened my school in South Africa in 2007, I told Maya that I really believe that that school's going to be my legacy, Maya, because she wasn't able to attend.

51:55I think she had the flu at the time and couldn't come. So I left South Africa and came directly back to her house. And I was sitting there, and she was making biscuits, and she said to me, I said, Oh, I'm so sorry you couldn't be there because that school is just going to be my greatest legacy. And she said to me, You have no idea what your legacy will be. I said, oh, no, I do think that the school's going to be it. Those girls are going to go on and do really great things. And she said, I said, you have no idea what your legacy is going to be because your legacy is never one thing. Your legacy is every life you touch.

52:33It's everybody who ever watched a show and made a decision after watching that show and said, I'm going to leave my abusive husband. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to buy a better bra, whatever it may be. Your legacy is every life you touch. It's not one thing. It's everything. So those profound words have stayed with me, and I hope that they resonate with you because it's how you live every day. It's not just the big things. It's not the big moments. It's not the big awards. It's not the plaque on the door. It's not the promotion in your office. It's not the acclaim. It's everything and every life you touch.

53:20It's the woman at the checkout counter at the grocery store. It's the way you treat the guy at the cleaners. It's the way you handle the person who's parked your car and brings your car back. It's every life you touch. There's a book called Lessons in Truth. Wow. And in the book, there's a line which is, God loves me. and when I came to read it to my then mentor, Frederick Wilkerson, the late Frederick Wilkerson, I read God Loves Me and he said, read it again. I said, God loves me. He said, read it again. Read it again. And finally, I said, God loves me.

54:11It still humbles me that this force, which made leaves and fleas and stars and rivers and you, loves me. Me, Maya Angelou. It's amazing. I can do anything and do it well. Any good thing, I can do it. That's why I'm who I am. Yes, because God loves me and I'm amazed at it. I'm grateful for it.

54:48Do you feel carried by the ancestors as I do? Do you feel carried by them? Absolutely. Yeah. When you said, when we talked last week about your crown has been paid for, put it on your head and wear it. Yes. Yeah. Do you feel... Yes. Do you feel... Absolutely. ...that your grandmother and her mother before her... Yes, and great-grandmother. ...and great-grandmother. Who had been born a slave. Who had been born a slave. Do you feel that you're carried by them? Absolutely. And I'm responsible to them. Maya has spoken often about that responsibility. Listen to this from 2003. Imagine it. Just imagine.

55:27Any of us. if we could really think about great-grandfathers and grandmothers and put them right in front of us today and say, here you are. Are you pleased with what I'm doing with my life? Am I making you proud? Am I doing all you would like me to be doing? Because a person could say, you're the reason I came over here on that boat. You're the reason I stood on the ocean block. You're the re... I stuck it so that you could exist. Mm.

56:05Suddenly, life itself is richer. Mm-hmm. So wherever I am, I stand on the stage in front of 10 ,000 people. My great-grandmother stands there with me. Mm-hmm. That's the line in the poem Grandmothers that you wrote. That's right. One of my favorites. I come as one, but I stand as 10 ,000. Oh, my gosh, have I used that line for myself internally on many occasions. Yes, because that's who you are. I recited that to myself many times. I come as one, but I stand as 10 ,000. And that's it, you girl. The force of that. That's it. Yes, ma 'am. To know that none of us are alone. No, ever. Because you've been paid for.

56:45Already. Thank the Lord. Above all else, Maya Angelou lived her life as a teacher. She said, when you get, give. When you learn, teach. And during one of her last times on the Oprah show, I asked her about her greatest lesson of all. And here's what she said. But do you have a greatest lesson, Maya? Yes, I suppose love is the greatest lesson. Dare to love. Now, by love, I don't mean indulgence. I don't mean sentimentality. I don't mean mush. I mean that condition in the human spirit so profound that it allows us to dare to step out on the word of God or on one's own word. This condition that allows us to like somebody.

57:35With love, we may be able to look through complexion and see community. That's only with love. So, I mean, it may be, Oprah, it may be that stuff that keeps the stars in the firmament or the blood racing through our veins. I mean daring to care. Daring to care. That is the greatest lesson. So thank you for joining me. Now you have some of Maya's great life lessons in one place. I hope you come back to them whenever you need them. And, you know, she gave me many gifts. Every time I was with her, it felt like a special, enduring moment. and she knew that there was nothing she could physically give me.

58:23But for my 50th birthday, she wrote me a poem because she knew how valuable words are to me. And so she wrote me a poem and that poem is, you can find it online and you can find it in her book of collected poems. The poem is called Continue, but she wrote it for my 50th birthday for me. And it continues to be one of the great gifts that she left behind for me. So I'm going to read it for you, and you can find it for yourself. And I have to say that I think it's, although she wrote it for me, I think it applies to millions of people. And so I've offered it to people for their birthday gifts, especially for milestone birthdays or milestone moments in people's lives.

59:17So this is Maya's words to me. Continue. My wish for you is that you continue. Continue to be who and how you are. To astonish a mean world with your acts of kindness. Continue to allow humor to lighten the burden of your tender heart. Continue in a society dark with cruelty to let the people hear the grandeur of God in the peals of your laughter. Ha ha! Continue to let your eloquence elevate the people to heights they had only imagined. Continue to remind the people that each is as good as the other and that no one is beneath nor above you. Continue to remember your own young years and look with favor upon the lost and the least and the lonely.

1:00:18Continue to put the mantle of your protection around the bodies of the young and defenseless. continue to take the hand of the despised and diseased and walk proudly with them in the high street. Some might see you and be encouraged to do likewise. Continue to plant a public kiss of concern on the cheek of the sick and the age and infirm and count that as a natural action to be expected. Continue to let gratitude be the pillow upon which you kneel to say your nightly prayer, and let faith be the bridge you build to overcome evil and welcome good. Continue to ignore no vision which comes to enlarge your range and increase your spirit.

1:01:20Continue to dare to love deeply and risk everything for the good thing. Continue to float happily in the sea of infinite substance which set aside riches for you before you had a name. Continue, and by doing so, you and your work will be able to continue eternally. I thank you, Maya Angelou.

1:02:15I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about, so thank you for watching and listening.