How to Master Your Student Loans with Robert Farrington

20:59But in addition, I want to think through what aid is available. I want to kind of talk through this process. So the big thing for me is that I wish when I went to college, I, you know, looked for more student aid. I wish I went out and looked for more grants or whatever else was available to me at that given time. I didn't work hard at it. And honestly, I wish I would have spent, you know, hours and hours during my senior year, just trying to figure out what kind of aid I could have gotten. So if someone is thinking through this process between student loans and student aid, they know they're not going to have enough cash on hand before they actually go out and start going to college.

21:29And so they know they need some sort of help. What would you suggest they do? Would you suggest the order of operations is to first look at or look for grants or student aid or whatever's available to them? And or second, would you tell them to kind of look at what student loan options are there? Or do you do both the same time? How do you kind of think about that overall?

21:48Robert Farrington:Yeah, so it really starts actually one step before that is understanding what the price of these colleges are. A lot of parents are flying blind into the decision on prices. And college can be very expensive. College can be free. College could be anywhere in between based on a variety of factors, where you go to school, what your income is, whatnot. So I really encourage parents to understand the real costs that you're going to pay. We actually just did a survey on this of how much families actually pay for college. And about 70 % of all Americans pay between$20 ,000 and$75 ,000 in total for a bachelor's degree.

22:28Robert Farrington:So remember, even if you're going to get free tuition, you still might be into it for$10 ,000 over four years just because of the books and the supplies and all the different things. You also have to realize that college costs are rising 3 % to 7 % a year. So what you start as, as a freshman could be a lot less than what you're finishing as for a senior. Like it could be like a$10 ,000 a year difference. It can get really expensive. So please, please, please know the college costs. Once you kind of know the college costs, what are you going to get for aid? The biggest buckets of aid money come from the universities themselves.

23:05Robert Farrington:These are the institutional grants and scholarships. And you might see like the headlines. Like I think, you know, what Harvard just made tuition free for families that make under$250 ,000 and MIT and things like that. Those are going to be the biggest buckets of aid they come from the college. After that, you do have other federal aid. So you fill out the FAFSA, you get access to the Pell Grant, but the Pell Grant's$7 ,000 a year. It's not a lot. You get access to some other certain grants like FSEOG. Some states also have grants. So I'm in California. California has a Cal grant. You know, again, they're not a lot, but you can keep stacking these grants.

23:44Robert Farrington:That's like$4 ,000 or so. And then you get to student loans. You could also apply to private scholarships, right? But I want to remind families that private scholarships typically are $1 ,000,$2 ,000. They're not typically renewable. It's like a one-time thing. They're not necessarily going to fund your college. I like to encourage families, do you know what's a guaranteed return on your investment? Having that kid go to work at Walmart, Target, Chick-fil-A, Starbucks, I guarantee you your high schooler could make$1 ,000 a month and do that every single month consistently for 10 months. And that's going to be a more guaranteed return than spending five or six hours a week applying to scholarships that are almost like a lottery and you never know what you're going to get.

24:29Robert Farrington:So I encourage you to apply if there's definitely, especially a scholarship that matches, like if your kid is doing golf or your kid, you know, you're the child of a union employee and like the union's offering it in your area. Like if it's a very niche scholarship that you know, you're going to have a really, really good chance for apply for it. But I would rather see your kid go work, save, and put a bunch of money into a savings account that they could use to pay for it. It's a more guaranteed return on investment. But at the end of the day, it all comes back to price. I want to remind families, there are 4 ,000 colleges in America.

25:05Robert Farrington:There's 4 ,000 of them. The average price of tuition is$10 ,000 a year. So you can take this and do some math in your head and realize half or above, half or below. When you're seeing$70 ,000 a year sticker prices at like Vassar and whatever, these really private elite schools, that's not the norm. There are very cost-effective ways to get a college degree. And there are also things to really think about, like some of my favorites right now are lowering your time in college. We talk a lot about scholarships, but what about finishing college in three years? That automatically reduces your price by 25%.

25:46Robert Farrington:And how do you do that? AP classes, dual enrollment in high school, taking the CLEP exam, getting those college credits in advance. So, okay, you do go to a$30 ,000 a year school. But if you're only doing it for three years, that's a lot better than doing it for four years, right? Like there are options. You just have to think through them. Exactly. And I think if you come in with a plan like that, if you come in with an idea of exactly how you want to attack this, I think that's the biggest thing because the cost of college is so expensive. Let me give everybody an example. So for example, in the state of Florida where I live, there's a bunch of different colleges here that are in state.

26:19So there's University of Florida, there's Florida State, which is where I went. There's the University of Miami. There's those three where you're looking at two in-state schools, University of Florida and Florida State, and then you have University of Miami, which is private. Miami is$70 ,000 per year, where the other two schools are going to be closer to that average rate overall. And making this choice up front and deciding which one you want to go to, where honestly, all three of those colleges would probably get you the same result. And in fact, the in-state school might get you a better result than the University of Miami.

26:47And I'm just saying that because I don't like the Miami football team. But anyways, that's one of those things where overall you could think through and say to yourself. Honestly, this is where all of this is going to be something. If you make a decision, you really need to make a decision on what is best for you and your family and kind of thinking through that. Because if you're taking out a$70 ,000 loan every single year, and it is not really that high of a return on investment, maybe your major doesn't get you a high paying job, well, then you got yourself debt that you're going to be paying off for a very long period of time.

27:15And so just making that slight adjustment is great. And I love Robert's note on thinking about these AP classes and kind of accelerating that path, reducing it down to three years, because that is something most people don't think about. And if you go out and do that, that can save you again, like you said, 25%. I think that's just a very, very powerful lesson for a lot of people out there. What about even going towards things like community college? Could you do community college for two years and then do in-state college? I mean, there's ways to reduce these costs that are really, really important that I think most people need to think through.

27:44Robert Farrington:I love community college as an option, especially because did you know in about 30 states community college is free for one to two years for everybody. I want to say like there's no income limit. I want Minneapolis. It could be it's one of the M states. I want to say it's Minnesota. They have a free community college for everybody. Doesn't matter if you're a millionaire or low income or whatnot, you can go to community college for free. Like it's a fantastic option because look, English 101 that you have to take as a freshman is going to be you're going to read the same Shakespeare, whether you go to an elite private school and spend 70 ,000 or whether you go to a community college and spend like 300 bucks.

28:19Robert Farrington:Like you're doing the same thing. Like get those college credits knocked out, transfer. It's a fantastic option. I did want to say one thing though about your university of Miami and private schools. Don't sleep on the private schools, guys. Apply, put a few on your list because private schools can be very flexible when it comes to financial aid. So yeah, they have these crazy high sticker prices, but I also kind of view them like the used car sales lot where like they discount and they work all these figures and you might not pay that. Where as you go to a state school, estates are very structured because of state laws.

28:55Robert Farrington:Like they can only give you this grant and this scholarship. And if you meet this criteria that's set in law by the legislature, like they're not going to be flexible with financial aid. Whereas the private school, they're private. They literally can pull all the levers they want if they have the ability and they have the money to give you more financial aid dollars. So just don't sleep on them. Put them on your list, but realize that you need to have those conversations. Because I've talked to a lot of high schoolers and a lot of their parents. And you might know this just from being in the personal finance space.

29:30Robert Farrington:A lot of families do not have money conversations that are transparent. And by the time you're in high school, you need to be very transparent about the finances, especially when it comes to college. Like your senior and your junior and really your freshmen should know like there is a 529 plan or college savings account for you. This is how much is in it. This is how much we could afford to pay. We have a how much student loan debt can you afford calculator on the college investor. And I love to sit down as families. You put in all your loans. This is what loan repayment looks like. If you want to borrow$40 ,000 a year, this is what it looks like when you're 22 and you have to start repaying it.

30:09Robert Farrington:How do you feel about paying for rent and groceries and transportation and a thousand dollars student loan payment? Like it starts becoming very eye opening and you need to have these transparent conversations about money because where kids get the most hurt and where families get the most damaged is when they're not transparent. They get accepted to one of these schools. That's forty thousand dollars a year. And then mom and dad are like, we can't afford it. And that's really crushing. Whereas if you did have that conversation and there was very clear expectations before, it's not going to be so morally just destroy a child.

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35:18Sign up for your$1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash pfp. Go to shopify.com slash pfp. That's shopify.com slash pfp. That's a huge thing to know is to have those conversations early and often. I think Robert's right to have it as early as their freshman year of high school so they understand as they're going through each and every single one of these years, This is the cost that is associated with this. And either we need to have a plan in place in order to pay for this college and or we need to ensure that when I get accepted to some of these schools, I know that I'm either going to have to get a bunch of scholarships or grants here in order to go there or there's going to be a huge mountain of student loan debt.

35:54I need to understand the repercussions of that. And that's a huge point for sure. And I love the note of have you ever seen people kind of go in and maybe you have folks who who you've talked to in the past to some of these private schools and kind of negotiated that price down to even lower than possibly an in-state school? Or is there any examples of that that you've seen in the past where someone has maybe got just enough grants where it's completely free because they went to private school and there was just enough going on there where it made sense for them to do that?

36:18Robert Farrington:All the time, all the time. The private schools, I would tell you, you have a better chance of paying nothing at a private school than you do at a state school by by by and large. So like I said, don't sleep on the private schools, especially if you are in this lower middle income America. So not low income, but you're like middle income America where it's like you're right above all the federal poverty line guidelines and you feel like you're doing pretty good. But like because you're just there, you probably don't have a big nest egg yet and you're trying to save for retirement. Those are the ones that get hurt the most at state schools because you miss all those poverty guideline cutoffs.

36:56Robert Farrington:But those are the ones that can also get the most aid at private schools because you're not at the elite level where they're trying to cut you off yet. And so you have more of a chance to get more financial aid dollars. I love that. I think that's really, really something that should be in most people's plans is just to have some of those in your arsenal. Try to get some of those prices down, negotiate as much as you can, but also just try to get as many of those grants as possible. And if you can get to a point where you're not paying as much for college, and you're just doing maybe maybe just lodging or food or whatever else, that's gonna be a much better situation for most people.

37:27Now, as we think through this, and I have to ask you this on the show, because I think it's really important. We have a lot of parents who listen to this show and folks who maybe they even have younger kids, and they're thinking about college now, and they're thinking about saving for college for their future. What is your favorite way to kind of think about saving for college when it comes to, you know, long term? Is it the 529 plan or are there other ways that you think that younger parents should think about saving for college?

37:52Robert Farrington:So the 529 plan is still the best account to save for education dollars. I kind of view them as what's the purpose. So if the purpose is education, 529 plan is kind of the best tool in the toolbox for that. If you want more of a broad, you know, open ended, you do have the UGMA account. As we're recording this, The Trump accounts just launched. I'm not as a huge fan of it, but I will always tell you to get your free money. So if you've had a baby born, get your Trump account free money. If you have an employer that's contributing as one of these sponsored employers, get your free money. But again, I think it's really the best tool for saving for education is still the 529 plan if education is the primary goal.

38:38Exactly. And I think that's the one that for most people out there, I think some of the benefits for me, even as of late with Secure Act 2.0, where you could roll in, you know,$35 ,000 into a Roth. There's a lot of exit plans, too, that you can have there that I think that are very, very helpful. And so that's kind of the route that most people that listen to this show take when they're saving their education dollars is towards that. But that's perfect. Awesome. So also, as we start to go through this, I want to shift gears to a couple of questions that we have just from some of our listeners and some of the folks in Master Money Academy, too, that sent in some questions that I want to ask you, Robert.

39:10So these are going to be ones that will be kind of situational. And I think it's going to be really beneficial for most people out there. So the first one is from Kimberly. Do I try to pay them off as fast as I can? Or do I pay the minimum amount over the duration of pretty much my life? And what about the best interest rate? So she's basically asking, should I try to pay off my student loans as fast as possible? How should she think about that interest rate and all those different things?

39:31Robert Farrington:So this is a great question. And this is where student loans operate differently than any other type of debt. And that student loans is a 50-50 conversation. And I don't know Kimberly's full financial situation, but let's just talk about the stats. 50 % of Americans with federal student loans should pay them off as aggressively as possible. Debt snowball. Whatever your favorite method is, just eliminate them. But then there's 50 % of Americans that know you should put as little as possible to your student loans. And the reason is, is 50 % of Americans qualify for total or partial loan forgiveness.

40:07Robert Farrington:And this is for federal student loans. It could also be your private student loans, depending on where you work. And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, loan forgiveness. I thought like some of this was stopped. And it's like, no, there are over 80 ways to get student loan forgiveness right now in America. There's very popular programs. We talked about public service loan forgiveness at the top of the show. There's teacher loan forgiveness. There is a time-based loan forgiveness if you're on an income-driven repayment plan for a certain period of time. Almost every state has like three to five student loan forgiveness programs in your state.

40:38Robert Farrington:A lot of them are career-based, but some states offer student loan forgiveness for buying a house in the state. Maryland has a homebuyer program. You buy a house in Maryland, they'll roll your student loans into it at like a 0 % interest rate and pay them off. If you work in STEM in Maine, if you do certain things in Kansas, I think it's another homebuyer program. Every state's got a bunch of student loan forgiveness programs. Then you have employer repayment assistance programs. Almost all the Fortune 500 companies offer student loan repayment assistance as an employer benefit these days. So if you go work for one of these large employers, they'll pay$5 ,000 a year to your student loans.

41:14Robert Farrington:So if you're one of the 50 % where you get some type of total or partial loan forgiveness, no, you do not pay extra on your student loans. You pay as little as legally possible and you maximize the free money that goes into your student loans. A lot of people worry about the interest on their student loans. They do. But when it comes to the math of repayment, student loan interest only makes up about 20 to 30 percent of the total dollars you repay on a student loan over the life of the loan. That's just the math. Student loan interest is generally very low. If you took a student loan in 2020, the interest rate would be 2.69 percent, something outrageous.

41:52Robert Farrington:Even today, it's 6%. It's lower than a mortgage. It's lower than other types of debt you're going to get. It's not anything that you should be fearful of. And honestly, I don't even think about it. And I do student loan stuff every single day. Student loan interest, just delete it as a worry from your mind. Exactly. And I think, honestly, for most people out there is if you do have that forgiveness available, just take advantage of that as much as possible. And then take those dollars and do something else with them, invest them or whatever else you want to do, but take those dollars and kind of move them to a different location.

42:24Just let the forgiveness kind of work its magic on you here as you go through this. And I love that you even bringing up the corporate forgiveness, because I remember the first job I worked at, they had corporate forgiveness where they would pay a portion of your student loans. And it was such a great perk for a lot of folks out there that was really, really helpful overall. The second one is from Velmer. So Velmer says, should I avoid student loans altogether if I'm sure I can manage college expenses with tuition reimbursements, grants, and some of my personal funds? Or is there advice to take advantage of student loans and invest the money to create a good debt scenario?

42:55P.S. I'm also bad with money, so something that would be harder for me to spend would be a good investment. Thanks in advance. If you don't have to take the student loans, don't take the student loans.

43:05Robert Farrington:I don't actually think there's any situation in life where the choice is pay cash or borrow debt. Just pay cash. That's phenomenal. I love that you get tuition reimbursement. So that's another employer benefit. it. And when we go back to the conversations of how do you pay for school, I love it. Go work at one of these big box retailers. They all offer tuition reimbursement programs. You could work part time and get like$2 ,000 to school. So just pay cash if you can pay the cash for it. Don't take on student loan debt. 100 % agree. And I think that is the big thing. If you have that option, never, ever take on that debt.

43:41It's just not worth it. The next one is from Robert. Now, Robert's got a situation that is about Parent PLUS loans. So this would be good for folks who have that. And basically what he says was, I've got a weird situation, maybe, I don't know, but I have a Parent PLUS loan and my two sisters are on the same account with me. So we all have access to each other's student loans. My question is, should we refinance to eliminate us all being on the same account? And are there advantages to leaving the Parent PLUS loans as is? The biggest disadvantage is when they fall behind, I can only pay the minimum balance.

44:12And then what are the pros and cons to refinancing and which bank is the best in your opinion?

44:18Robert Farrington:So I think I'm reading this right because I see this a lot. And because Robert says that he has Parent Plus loans with his two sisters, I actually think he's the student and his sisters are also the student. And the Parent Plus loan is the parent's loan. And so I don't think this is Robert's loan at all. I think it's his parent's loan. And so I have a very, very big beef with Parent PLUS loans. I hate Parent PLUS loans generally, but Parent PLUS loans are the parent's loan. The student has no legal obligation to the debt. So in Robert's situation and his sister's situation, those are actually his parents' loans.

44:57Robert Farrington:They're not theirs. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate kids paying their parents' Parent PLUS loans. And I hate it for a few reasons. Number one is the parent took the loan. It's their loan. But they have options like we just talked about earlier in the show. You could consolidate, get on income driven repayment plans. Parents are usually older. You have other forgiveness options that we don't think about as much with children because they're younger. But you have death and disability discharge. You die. You get totally disabled. Student loan is forgiven completely and it doesn't impact your estate.

45:32Robert Farrington:What I hate is when kids are 22 to 32, 42, that is when they need the most money in their entire lives. Like literally, they're trying to start a family. They're trying to buy a house. Why are you as a parent sucking money out of the younger generation into the older generation? And then let's be honest that someday you will die and the kids will probably get something. Inheritance, house, the assets that you are paying off. So then when they're 50, all of a sudden that money goes right back to them. Like that doesn't help them at 50. They needed it at 22 so that they could start their lives. So one of my big philosophies is kids don't pay parent plus loans.

46:14Robert Farrington:The parents pay the parent plus loans and there's options for the parents to navigate it and parents should not be asking their children to pay it. It's just bad estate planning and financial planning practice. Like your goal should be for your whole family unit to be wealthier, not just the parents being wealthy or the kids being wealthy, the whole family unit should be wealthier. And you don't suck money from the kids to support the parents. Like, no, the parents should be supporting the kids. Like one of my philosophies. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's a great way to think it through because parents really need to think through kind of the life cycle of this money and where it's going to end up.

46:48And if you think about, you know, you're going to hand it to them later on down the line when they could use it right now at the most important time where they could actually get, you know, the ball rolling. And I remember my first job, I was living paycheck to paycheck. I was just trying to get survive for the most part. And I think a lot of people are in that scenario.

47:02Robert Farrington:And I don't want, yeah, as I say, I don't want parents to be destitute here. But again, if you are low income or struggling, your student loan payment could be$0 a month on an income driven repayment plan. So like, why are we even talking about this again? There's options for you if it's a financial hardship and you shouldn't be asking your kids to help with that. As for refinancing, if you are in a financially stable spot and you are just looking to lower your interest rate. Refinancing is a fine idea if you can save on interest on your student loan. There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to banks to refinance at.

47:37Robert Farrington:There is about a dozen of them. SoFi is one. They have the best advertising, but that doesn't mean they have the best rate. What I like to say is go get three to five quotes, see who gives you the best rate based on your own credit and your own income, and then go with the lowest rate. Don't just fall for marketing dollars. They're literally all the same. It's just who can offer you the best at that moment in time. Exactly. This is where you really want to rate shop is definitely when you are looking at these loans. And if you're going to refinance, that is the ultimate thing you want to do is making sure that you can find that lowest rate.

48:10The next one is from Lindsay. And this is perfect because this is along the same lines of what we were talking about when it comes to student loan forgiveness. But she said, if I qualify for public service loan forgiveness program and I'm almost seven years in, should I keep holding out for forgiveness? How should I best prepare for this process to go as smooth as possible once I hit all my qualifying payments. Yeah.

48:31Robert Farrington:So public service loan forgiveness is kind of the biggest and best student loan forgiveness program out there. And I know it got off to a rocky start and everyone was kind of like, oh no, but over a million Americans have gotten their student loans forgiven with PSLF. And it's about 150 ,000 a year now are ongoing and they're getting it. So yes, you're already seven years in. And as long as you're going to keep working in public service, you absolutely should finish the last three years because that is free money that's just wiped from your balance sheet. Think of it as a bonus almost. Don't think of it as debt going away, but say you have a$50 ,000 balance.

49:03Robert Farrington:Think of it as a$50 ,000 bonus. You just got all that money. That's awesome. I think the important thing to remember is public service loan forgiveness has four main criteria, and you have to be very on top of it. Number one is having a direct student loan, which I'm sure you do. You've been doing this for seven years. Number two is being on a qualifying repayment plan. So with all the changes going on, there are really only two qualifying repayment plans going into the future. It is the income-based repayment plan, IBR, and the repayment assistance plan that's coming out in July. Those will be the two qualifying ones going into the future.

49:38Robert Farrington:You've been doing this for seven years, so the past ones do count, IBR, ICR, pay-as-you-earn, the save plan. But I want to tell you, Lindsay, the save forbearance, this time when people's loans were paused, doesn't count. So if you're in the safe forbearance, get out of it and get back on IBR. I don't know if you really are or not, but you need to do that. Number three is certify your employment. You have to certify your employment, send it to your HR department. If you're a teacher, I don't know, make your principal sign it, get that signed. And then number four is you got to do it for 120 payments, 10 years, and then you get your loans forgiven.

50:14Robert Farrington:A lot of people that are struggling today are missing one of those steps. And a lot of it's paperwork errors. So it's like, don't let a paperwork issue block you from student loan forgiveness. Like you can do this. You went to college. Like I know you can get it done. Exactly. I think that's great tips. And I think overall that is a huge, huge deal to get that. So fantastic that she is. She's almost there, which is awesome. The last question that we have here is from Noah. So my question would be, what are the biggest tips for high student debt professionals who are looking to build wealth while managing student loans?

50:47Robert Farrington:Well, I'm wondering if you also mean high income professionals because you're saying professionals and high wealth. But the big thing is, is create a plan. I recommend everyone create a plan. But guys, the plan can change. I also think we want plans that last for five to 10 years and that's not how student loan debt works. So I want you to see what your income is and see what your student loan payment is this year. And then I want you to make a decision. Am I going, am I one of the 50 % that are gonna get forgiveness? or am I one of the 50 % that are gonna pay off my loans? And with that framework in mind, well, if you're gonna get forgiveness, I wanna find the lowest repayment plan possible.

51:23Robert Farrington:And maybe I could do some tricks to lower my payment again. Maybe I can contribute to a 403B or contribute to my HSA or my traditional IRA and lower my taxable income to lower my student loan payment. That's a great way to save for yourself and lower your student loan payment. But what if you're on the other side and you're just gonna pay it off? Well, debt snowball, debt avalanche, whatever your mindset is, and start working that plan. And then you need to revisit this every year. There's no way around it. The student loan plans are changing. Your own income situation's changing. I just want you to look back at your own life five years ago and realize how different it's today.

52:04Robert Farrington:And then think about what it's going to be in five years. It's going to be very different in five years. It's okay to keep reevaluating and changing the plan as you go. But the framework is either maximize forgiveness or repay as fast as you can. That's kind of how it goes with student loans. Exactly. It's kind of splitting it off and then building your plan based on which direction you're going to go. It's almost I picture it as a flow chart in my mind. Yep. Totally. Kind of have to think about that, which is awesome. So awesome. And then, Robert, I'm going to give you a couple quick rapid fire questions that we ask a lot of our guests before we wrap this up.

52:34So the first one is what is the best money advice you've ever received?

52:39Robert Farrington:Save until it hurts is the best money advice I've ever received. So like, especially when you're young and there's really not a lot there, like you said, you're living paycheck to paycheck. That$20 at 18 years old that you can get into an investment account, it really hurts. But by the time you're 30 or 40, that$20 is worth$2 ,000 and it's a really big deal. And if you can keep doing that every single month over and over again, saving until it hurts, the power of compounding kind of takes over from there and it just puts you on the right track. Exactly. I always say save until you feel slightly uncomfortable.

53:12And that's kind of like the same little logic there, which is awesome. The second one is what is the best book that you have read over the course of the last year?

53:20Robert Farrington:Of the last year? You know, I have to say I'm back on Warren Buffett, The Snowball, his biography. It's a fantastic book. You know, he just retired officially. And so it's been on my mind. And I was like, I'm going to reread this. It's a fantastic book. If you really want to dive into the nuances of Warren Buffett's life, I mean, it's thick. it's like that big but it's a great book yep it's awesome i love it and i love every war but i'm in a warren buffett kick right now too i just finished uh poor charlie's almanac for like the fourth time and and another great one that i've been reading i read like almost every year is the warren buffett way because it's a shorter one but it kind of talks through his business acquisitions but yeah i love the snowball is absolutely fantastic for anybody who wants to learn about his life and it is it is absolutely one of my favorite books for sure is there anything that you're doing this year to level up your finances or anything big that you are looking to do?

54:10Robert Farrington:You know, really, there's not a ton, but we've been really just diving in on the organization front. And I don't know about you, but it has been more and harder to organize finances than ever before and trying out different aggregators and programs and then spouses. So my wife has a different style than I have. And we're really just trying to figure out what organization style works for us. We used a bunch of tools in the past. Now we're trying out a bunch of tools today. But being able to be organized and have those money conversations is huge. And then just figuring out the best way to stay organized.

54:49That's a great goal. And I think overall, that's the one thing is I feel like it develops for me every couple of years where I have to rethink through organization and things just get faster. And we got to utilize that. We use Monarch money, but that's like the one tool I think that's been helpful for us as of late. But again, it changes all the time. So I think that's really, really cool.

55:06Robert Farrington:Yeah, I would say I was gonna say we're on we're on Kubera and Fidelity FullView. So Fidelity's built in budgeting tool for the day to day tracking. And then Kubera is what's rocking the net worth and the account planning. And we're liking where it's at right now. But you know, a big part of the organization was also the streamlining, Andrew. I've canceled like four credit cards in the last while, like getting all this stuff back down because like being in the personal finance space, man, I tried this, I do this, I got points over here, I got this. So, you know, it's also just reframing it all and getting back down to like, all right, we really only need our Fidelity 2 % cash back for personal and like, you know, handling this kind of stuff to make it simple.

55:51Exactly. I can tell you right now, I probably have 20 different brokerage accounts that I've tested out with like$400 in there that I've just been testing to see if they work. So I got to consolidate all that too and get a pull it all together. So I feel your pain on that for sure. It's one of those areas that when you test stuff like we do, it's really important to kind of get it back. It's centered and streamlined for sure. The last one is my favorite question. And this is one that we ask all of our guests, but what does wealth mean to you?

56:16Robert Farrington:Wealth means the ability to do what you want to do when you want to do it. It's as simple as that. It might be a number. It might be health and time. It's kind of all integrated, honestly. But it's the ability to do what you want to do when you want to do it. Spend time with your family, go on vacation. I don't know, whatever it is that you want to do when you want to do it. I love that answer. I think that is the perfect definition in the way I think about it as well. Well, Robert, thank you so much for coming on today. Where can people find out more about you and anything else you have going on?

56:47Robert Farrington:Absolutely. This has been so fun. You can find me at thecollegeinvestor.com. We're on all the social platforms, video platforms, and you can find our podcast on your favorite podcast platform as well. Awesome. Well, thank you again. We're definitely going to have you back on here and can't wait to see you again. Awesome, man. This has been fun. Success isn't just about what you achieve. It's about how you achieve it. In the Notre Dame MBA program, you'll learn to look beyond quarterly results and build organizations that grow the good in the world through disciplined leadership, strong judgment, and a community that expects more from business.

57:21That's how Notre Dame graduates launch impactful careers at top companies across industries. Lead with purpose. Lead with a Notre Dame MBA. Tap now to learn more.