#141: George Heaton: What ‘obsessed’ actually looks like

28:34George Heaton:Yeah, absolutely. And that, that hits home because there's so many people, there's so many kids that message me when they're building a brand. They're like, Oh, do I need to take on a CEO? Do I need an FD? Do I need to do all these things? And they've up they're so small it's like no just do everything until you get to a point where you're the success allows you to be able to bring in the right people yeah stay small enough long enough and you'll be big enough quick enough i think you're just saying that is it that's tied up yeah in terms of the building the brand bigger than you and having this thing that stands the test of time.

29:11We're seeing a massive influx in brands coming in. We're seeing them go up and down. We're seeing trends come in, trends fade out. What are you trying to do that actually makes a brand stand the test of time? Because they're dropping like flies and there's brands falling out and there's ones making noise and then there's ones disappearing. What are you going to do that makes it go beyond you as the founder and stands way longer than you're alive?

29:40George Heaton:I think there's always going to be cycles. There's always going to be trends. There's always going to be things that come and go. There's always going to be points in the brand where it like dips and goes back up and dips and goes back up. And I think to withstand that, it's all about creating something that means something more than just product to them. You know, there's so many brands that are blowing up at the moment that they're just a product brand and they've put it on TikTok and they hire a load of influencers and they commission those influencers and they sell fucking hundreds of millions worth of stuff.

30:11George Heaton:But as soon as that hiring stops of those influencers or no one's talking about your brand on them social media channels, it's no longer a brand. It's just a sales funnel. So building a brand that then becomes legacy or can stand the test of time means you've got to do a lot of work on the journey that that customer takes within your brand from the moment they see it to the first purchase to them sticking around for the next 10 years. 20 years however long that would be yeah i feel we which we dove deep on this yesterday around around doing something far greater than just selling a product and you know we use many references of like why do you go to a gym right that is you know got old equipment it's rusty it smells bad sweaty your hands get all dirty it's busy yeah why do you go to that and it's like or something beyond just the product?

31:10George Heaton:It's a feeling, isn't it? I think the word luxury now or premium or whatever you want to call it, something that feels good to you, like it's a sense, it's a smell, it's a touch, it's a feeling, it's a part of being. And for me, luxury is not a product anymore. Anyone can make a t-shirt. Anyone can make a very good quality t-shirt. Anyone can get the best fabrics and construct a t-shirt. It's not hard. We're not building a rocket ship here. but what is rocket ship and what is hard is making that person feel like they're really fucking part of something and to feel like you're part of something my my theory is now whether this is right or wrong and this is just how i feel and how i pursue life is moments in time or of my life of my upbringing or even before that on movies that i've watched and shows that i've seen like how do i be like feel that like nostalgia that feeling walking into gold's gym and it's not smelling good the music's fucking old rock and roll like people are in there with like stringers on from 1990 and like everyone's massive like to me that is prime like puts me in that place it puts me in the 70s it puts me in the arnold's was a nigger area where like it was true californian bodybuilding like start of it like it gives me goosebumps thinking about it but to me that's a luxury that there is a luxury not not ordering a t-shirt online so accessing a feeling from your past is the thing we're all kind of chasing i think so no no so there's so many different trends and there's so many things happening and and technology's getting so far and advanced and you can put goggles on and see whatever you want now and look into the future and go to space and all that kind of stuff i think it's actually now about like looking backwards and that that that to me is like that that's they're my favorite times you know like i moved out here to la because i used to go to this little beach town in wales where my dad would take me there and he'd blast the beach boys and we'd sit on the sand and i'd pretend i was in california in the 90s and i thought that was so cool that when i moved here it was like i'm gonna go and buy this vintage rolls royce that my dad used to rent out for wedding cars.

33:24George Heaton:I'm going to do that down the PCH. And to me, that is the best investment I've ever made. And every time I stop at a stoplight or I go to Air One or whatever it is, everyone rolls down the window and they're like, fucking sick car. What year is it? Where did you get this thing? They don't realize that car is not even the same price as a Tesla. And they're all driving around in Teslas that they have to charge for half an hour and do 10 miles in where like I bought this thing that's such a low price, but people just don't know because they're not they're not willing to do the research and look into it yeah there's probably just also an influx of of noise online that's suggesting that we should get the electric car suggesting we should do that suggesting that that is cheap right and i think we're we're actually missing the point of what we actually want i think i kind of look at this and it's been fascinating even just chatting with you the last couple days about about how the old is the do.

34:19George Heaton:Right. Just because we look at so many things in our life and we assess why we do them that don't logically add up. Like they don't make sense, but they give us a lot more. And you said the thing about Gold's Gym, right? You said, you said that gives me far more than anything else. Dude, a hundred percent. And I look forward to it all week to go to it on the weekend because it's like, it's a feeling and, and, and that feeling you can't get anywhere. You have to go to that thing or to that place and, and, and live it and enjoy it. Yeah. I wonder if we tie that into the way people act and the things that we do, like the way we dress, the car we drive, the memories that we look back on and laugh at, the things that we keep going back to.

35:09So maybe really all it is, is comes down to, uh, it comes down to the things that have happened in the past, like the things that we've already been exposed to. And they're like a timestamp. And as AI is automating the world, people just want to be able to connect and go back to things that feel real. And maybe it's all those memories that are kind of timeless in a sense are the ones that make us feel like, oh, this isn't going to go anytime soon. So I like this.

35:36George Heaton:Right. Right. and also the pendulum always swings right when or we always zig when someone zags like the way technology is moving makes you then crave the opposite of that like for me for so long like i wanted to wear woop bands and apple watches and track all my stuff and my sleep and then like it gets to a point where actually you don't need it like you can just enjoy just waking up when you want to wake up and doing the things you want to do and training hard and not having to check your heart rate because why are you checking your heart rate anyway if you're not the pro athlete that needs to measure the exact bpm of everything do you need to be spending your time looking and thinking and worrying about that kind of stuff yeah i i took my whoop and my my garmin and all the stuff off and a couple of people asked me the questions because i was on a run and i wasn't tracking it well not even the miles leave my phone at home leave everything there and people would ask me the question and I go, tracking something I'm not actively trying to improve is adding more noise into my life that's unnecessary.

36:43Why do I need to track how far I run if I'm not actively trying to increase the speed in which I'm running that time at, that kilometer's at? It's unnecessary data.

36:53George Heaton:That's literally unnecessary data. Unnecessary data that adds more noise. When I'm not actively implementing things to improve my sleep and I feel good every day, why am I tracking my sleep? Yeah. Why do I need to look at that every single day? It's like when my whoop tells me I'm in the green, is that going to dictate my mood? That's the problem. That is the problem right there, that it does dictate people's moods. And then it decides for them whether they should train that day or what they should do that day. Like, come on, a heartbeat, you know, a track, you can't. the physical human body and the mind and the brain and everything and how we're all connected that cannot dictate that yeah that's probably not even right as well which is the crazy thing whether it's right or wrong it's a fucking amazing device they're all amazing devices and obviously like in a medical field and with the ultra athlete field like the 100 fantastic but for the everyday guy if you are not competing at a high level and not doing the things that you need to improve things out, you don't actually need it.

37:57Yeah. I think that they're all great. I think, I think honestly, like for me, I did it for such a long time. And I think the thing for me that I've just realized is when you're trying to achieve something that's so great, oftentimes there is a lot of chaos. There's a lot of things moving on. If I'm adding more unnecessary noise into my life, it's literally making my life harder. So in pursuit of trying to do things that give me more clarity and optimize my life more, I'm actually just sapping more of the energy that I have throughout my day that I could be focused on things. And that's why I think there's just an element of, of like, just because it's something that people are doing, it doesn't mean it's the right thing for you to optimize you and your life.

38:36Yeah. And maybe there's a level of like ego that needs to be removed of like, okay, yeah, maybe I don't, maybe my Strava numbers don't look good because I don't track any of my runs or like whatever it is. But I think it's just a thing that I realized for me, and it's, it's not right or wrong. That's just one of those things where I went, I actually don't think I want that added noise in my life. I think I'm going to be okay. Like I'm still jacked. I still do well.

38:58George Heaton:And you know what? You did it for a long time. So you kind of understand your baseline and where you're at. And if you do want to go back to it, you already have that data from before. So if you want to look at it, you can easily jump back on it. It's not a big thing, is it? I want to read you something. The radical act of inconvenience. When music flows like tap water, it loses its exceptionalism. To listen to a vinyl record, you must physically buy it, pull it from a sleeve, drop a needle, and flip it over 20 minutes later. Data shows that 76 % of Gen Z vinyl buyers buy records at least once a month, yet a significant portion don't even own a high-end turntable setup.

39:37They aren't buying better audio, they are buying a ritual.

39:42George Heaton:How good is that? That's just the same thing, the pendulum is swinging. you know you can get music within a click of a button now and put it on a headphone that is wired to your fucking brain or you can go and do the old thing and it's so nostalgic and the sound just is different when you put that record on the player the sound is different and it makes you feel like you're in that time and space and that to me is a luxury that's the same thing that i said about the rolls royce driving down pch or going to gold's gym that is a primer example of a luxury that now people are doing and it's taking them longer to do but they're getting something out of it that's more than just the music even just the smell of the rolls royce even just the smell of the fuel like it's like 45 year old leather it's it's insane isn't it yeah there's something there's something about that and just even just if we think about that for a second like like we're actually not optimizing for efficiency and the best outcome objectively right it's like what are we actually getting from it beyond that is the thing that's fascinating me because because like you're right like the vinyl like you can just get a bose speaker and have surround sound and it will sound more clear right but is that what we're optimizing for no maybe the music in itself is trying to capture a feeling in us, which is why we're playing it in the first place and having it have some crackles or having it have like a bit of a muffly sound makes it even feel better and makes the song more worthwhile.

41:21George Heaton:Yeah. That's that to me is luxury. That to me is luxury. It's like not having to worry about the optimization side of things and being able to do whatever it is you want to do on your own time to make it feel like you're in a place in a time. yeah from your childhood from a movie from a show whatever you've seen or heard yeah put yourself in that position and so then maybe the the term that's quite great for this is like a thing we could be optimizing for in our life is memory dividends memories that we have that give us dividends when we can rethink about them and stuff like living in moments where we can look back and laugh right like all of the things we look back on and laugh and like have joy in like they're the greatest memories we should be trying to obtain because they're the they're the ones that we talk about a lot and we get to relive and we get to right and we get to um live on but then the piece on that even in itself though george is like the the the typically the ones that we look back on and laugh and smile at were not planned either and so like having room for magic in our life that then allows us to have memories that we were not planning on yeah experiencing so we can relive them and even like even broader than that like imagination i know you mentioned about the artwork in this house earlier you know if someone if someone buys a piece of artwork from a painter that lived 200 years ago and whatever and they've got this really cool piece for them then it's like an imagination like can you imagine that guy painting this and how long it took him and how hard he worked and all his life he never made a penny and then when he died that's when his art became such a big thing that now everyone collects and it makes you like imagine things.

43:01So maybe as if we, if we unpack the progression of someone's journey, right? When you're starting out and you're in zero to one and you're really trying to make something of yourself, it's probably smart to be quite objective, quite strategic, quite structured, quite like, okay, this is the thing we're getting this outcome. Let's do this because like you only have so many hours in a day and to really move the needle from the ground up you need to put in the effort right but then as you achieve more of those things that we all strive for they start to have less value because you obtain so much of it right and so it's like the the special thing that you were chasing once you obtain it it starts to degrade in in value so then you actually need to search for more sentimental value to actually even get the same emotion as you would and so it's like probably a maturity of of success comes into place where you actually need to search for things that have greater meaning than just objective things.

43:59George Heaton:And that's all it is. Maybe that's the key to life. Maybe you've figured it all out. I really know nothing, but we figured. Now do I. So let me ask you this. Did you get the old or the new Rolls Royce first? I've had a Wraith, which is like a new Rolls Royce for a long time. I only got the old one when I moved here. Yeah, see, this is interesting because maybe we need tick the new one off the box first. Yeah. And maybe we need like the one that's harder to get first to then make us realize that we actually don't like that one as much as last. That's very true. Yeah. I didn't think about that. You're just thinking about it deeper than what it actually is, aren't you?

44:41It must be a podcaster or something. So those are the thing about it. It's just like, sometimes we just need to, we just need to like chill out a little bit and touch some grass. It's not that deep. But it's all part of it.

44:55George Heaton:And just enjoy what you do. That's the main thing, right? If you enjoy something that not everyone else enjoys, who gives a fuck you're enjoying it? Yeah, that's key. If we tie back in this old is the new new piece and then we tie it into like trends and how things are fading. You said on the phone yesterday, you think trend is becoming a bit of a redundant term. Right. You said that like it's not really going to be a thing anymore. Trends aren't even really, the word trend doesn't really hold any value or weight. Well, according to stats, a trend in fashion would stick around for seven years.

45:29George Heaton:And now this is in the 90s, 2000, 2010s, up until 2015. Now that's been brought down to two to three years. So the smaller that trend becomes, the less time it has, so the less value it has. So what then is actually a trend? like what what what does that mean that's the question i kind of like give to my team and try to answer myself it's like what actually are people buying into from you does it need to look like what everyone else is doing or does it have this unique value that holds a place and time like for example i'm wearing this beach boys tee right maybe no one none of my customers actually grew up listening to the beach boys but for me that sentimental value is my dad taking us down to Abbasoc in Wales every weekend to go and sit on the sand and blast the Beach Boys.

46:22George Heaton:And that's why we've done this collab because I feel like that's given me this sense of my childhood, my upbringing. And it's just such a cool thing that I can then express my artwork and Mike's design philosophy through that garment. So it's more than just the t-shirt. Perhaps though, they may not know about Beach Boys yet, but because you've built such a cult fan base, they actually will be able to seek meaning and feeling from the Beach Boys, even if they don't know. And then maybe even start listening to the Beach Boys because they go, oh, well, George, I like that guy in his haircut. Maybe he's haircut.

46:59Maybe I'll like the Beach Boys too.

47:02George Heaton:Yeah. I just feel like we're so influenced as humans, right? And if we see someone that likes a certain song and we listen to that song enough times and we like that person, we'll probably just start, end up liking the song. Right. And so it's like, even if we talk about trends, do you feel like the lifetime of a trend actually lasts longer if you create the trend and you start it yourself? Because if you start the trend and you're like the trend setter, it's kind of like you're the OG. You're the first to it. And so it doesn't really fade out as quick because it's like, well, that is represent.

47:42Right.

47:42George Heaton:you know and that's what everyone in the fashion industry is searching for they all want to be the pioneer everyone wants to be the first to something that becomes a worldwide phenomenon just like as someone getting a haircut like you want to be the first one to do that and then everyone follow and it's the same in fashion it's i'm guessing it's the same in all the other industries it'll be the same in health and wellness if creatine's the trend who's who had that fucking great creatine before every single branded creatine they're always going to be the successor So they're always going to be the biggest and the best.

48:13Yeah, but then I just wonder if you need to have more uniqueness than just creatine because, for example, like, I don't know about you, but if I'm buying creatine, like, I just want a good brand. Like, they're probably all made in the same factory. Yeah, it's all the same stuff, right? And so it's like you need to, if you're going to create, if you're going to be the originator of it, like, there's got to be a level of a moat at least to some degree or else, like and within a few years everyone's going to look the exact same and then that's probably why

48:44George Heaton:trends fade right well that's your brand isn't it that's where your brand your brand language your brand dna your brand content every output that your brand has then has a meaning for that thing that you're going to them for like you know if i we keep taking creating example but like for me as soon as I see like the white thorn packaging, I'll just buy that creating because I just know the brand and I know that color palette and I know the logo and I just think that that is it. And I won't even think twice about it. Yeah. So it's crazy how internal all of it is, like how subjective like consumer brands are really.

49:27Like how well can you market it? How well can you capture a feeling? and then like how well can you like capture a feeling for someone that makes them feel like they need to be really loyal to that brand? Because you've done such a good job at building a cult like audience of people that literally just want to look like you. Like the amount of like people I've just seen that's just like, I just want to look like Georgine. Yeah. What do you think goes into that?

49:58George Heaton:um I think that's building yourself with the brand right I wanted to look a certain way I wanted to talk a certain way I wanted to be a certain way so I built that just like I would build my brand I built that and and like was very conscious of how how I wanted to show up what I wanted to wear how I wanted the clothes to fit me what kind of bustle definition I wanted like it's all it's all just planning plan to do all them things become that person that you think other guys would like to look up to and become. And if I've got a successful brand attached to that, that everyone wants to also have, then they'll look to me as their inspiration.

50:34George Heaton:And that works. Yeah. When you were asked on a podcast what the most important traits for success are, you said consistency, intensity, and humility. Damn, what podcast was that? Can't remember which one I got it from. But they were the three you said, consistency intensity humility i'm not sure if you're still aligned with that but absolutely yeah what what do you mean about intensity and humility consistency is key we talk it's quite familiar that that phrase but what do you mean by intensity and humility intensity means like this the sheer focus if we go back to that first question you asked me obsession intensity is obsession right you've got to work on something at an intense level for it to become great think about hunter up there doing his back squats and how intense they are that that there is intensity you've got to push so hard at it that it's that it's better than the rest that are also competing with you right so if you're consistent with it and then you're intense with it you've got to leg up above everyone else and i think humility goes back to the point that I made earlier about like the brand being bigger than me but you've got to be humble enough to step away and let let that grow and let that do its own thing you know I've got merchandisers and buyers and sales people in the brand that they want products that I necessarily wouldn't wear but that's okay because there's there's a customer for that and not and what we just talked about everyone oh everyone wants to get the same haircut as George and dress the same and whatever there's another cohort of people that don't give a fuck who I are.

52:16George Heaton:They'll still come and buy the brand because they love the quality of it and they love the language of it and they love the content of it and they love all these different things that they don't need me. So that's the humility part, I think. And I think a lot of brand owners, I'm not going to name any names, but they get so obsessed with themselves that they can't let go of that and it really fucking stops their brand from becoming anything great because they think it's all about them. did you have to develop the understanding of humility did you feel like you lacked it earlier on in the journey um no i don't think so no i'm you know like i've all i've grown up with my brother so it's not always been like a just a me thing it's always been him there as well and then as we brought people in like i enjoy them taking love for things and being able to do their own thing and it not having to be me that's so involved with it i don't mind when i think about humility i think of uh like being able to have this humility to being wrong and so like okay like i messed up here yeah like i've learned from this because i don't think if i'm thinking about i think humility and ego can live in the same sentence because humility is kind of removing the ego it's like no you don't know it all i was actually wrong and i think there's some power in that even in leadership as well it's like look we we gave it our all we tried but this didn't work and so i'm having the humility to admit that this didn't work and change path and keep moving forward do you feel like that's a key piece of humility as well 100 it's self-auditing right look at every single thing you do whether it's successful or unsuccessful audit what you've done figure out where you've gone wrong where you've gone right and then put that into the next thing and just do that over and over.

54:03George Heaton:Because you're not going to get everything right and you're going to have to take punches to the face and kicks to the balls all the time. So that there should give you enough reason to then be humble about things and not let the ego drive everything. The ego can drive the right things. It can drive competition. It can drive growth. It can drive everything that makes you want to fight to be better than the next person. But it doesn't need to drive the things that mean decisions are getting made on what that launch looks like or how this content looks like or who that customer is, can separate them out.

54:36George Heaton:Yeah. Use them in different ways. I think about ego a bit because, you know, I remember I made a podcast like a year ago and the title was like, Destroy Your Ego. That was a thing though. There was a thing a few years ago where everyone was talking about like having no ego and ego is the enemy. yeah but but also the i had that realization of actually trying to destroy your ego is an ego-driven pursuit in the first place it's like oh look how egoless i am every human has an ego and it's a good thing and you should you should use it for certain things and not use it for others yeah i feel there's a a discernment here of like recognizing it's there but not letting it steer the ship.

55:27George Heaton:Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, like it's there. Let's not try and disregard the fact that it's there. But let's not have it in the steering wheel. Let's not let it grab wheel because the moment it's steering the ship and it's making the decisions and it's dictating how you act, that's the slippery slope. Right. Yeah. You know? 100%. I'm like imagining myself as certain people that are in my industry now that just have that. and I'm just thinking like you know if they just let go of a few things and let someone else control a few different narratives in the brand it could flourish yeah how do you feel like from an energy standpoint that rubs off like like when you see someone that's really driven by their ego like for me personally I feel like like when I hang out with people like that it like saps the life out of me I feel like I get drained being around people that are so all about them it's like i am the shit right just don't hang around with them yeah you're fucking no gonna hear him

56:29George Heaton:yeah it's not such a big deal right just you don't need to be around that shit yeah you said another thing i don't believe you should ever have that mindset of we've done it but more of a that worked let's do it again and that was your outlook on success and successful moments not having that state of like oh we've done it we've made it it's like okay that works like let's do it again yeah but dude there's no there's no like ceiling is there there's no ceiling there's no you don't get to a place where you just think oh we've fucking we made it we're good we're good life's good no one's like that well we're humans we're wired a certain way to always strive and always prosper and always get to the next thing you know if you look at look at people like jeff bezos and elon musk like they have billions and billions to the point where they could they could completely change the world with the money that they've got but instead they're just focused on making their thing the best thing because it means so much more than the value or whatever is attached to it the success yeah and then i guess but the thing that i ponder is I just go like, I don't know if I desire the life of those guys.

57:45And so that's, it's kind of like going like, it's kind of going like, I don't know if I want to get divorced all the time.

57:52George Heaton:I don't know if I want to not see my family. But that goes back to that same first question. They're so good at one thing that everything around them fails. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's, it's like dedicating yourself. If you wanting to be one of the greats, one of the number one athletes in the whole world, you're wanting to build a billion dollar business you want to impact lives feed feed families of people in your under in in your team like there's going to be a level of sacrifice and there's a price tag that you have to pay that like eats into certain aspects of your life like you're not going to be as much of a well-rounded person you're probably going to not be like that fun to hang around at times and so then just assessing that and then going okay like now that i'm aware of that is that a life that i want and am i willing to pay that price because if i am then go for it go all in yeah um but if i'm not then equally be like okay well maybe i don't need that to yeah to be worthy maybe i can actually climb the mountaintop but not like try and get to the top of everest Yeah, and you know, even for these people that are wildly successful, like athletes, movie stars, 99 % of the time it's boring, it's repetitive, it's consistent.

59:07George Heaton:You know, it's wall balls and sitting on a C2 bike for Hunter. Or for the movie star, it's getting this huge role, being Batman and then having nothing for five years. Like you only see the fucking great parts. Like the rest of it is very boring. Like life is boring for the best people because they can't go out and enjoy the things that you can go out and do because they're so dedicated to that one thing that has to be so good. Yeah, I was writing a piece on, on like the numbness that can come with success. And I was explaining how, how like you start to go through so much stuff. You start to get burnt so much that you start to like remove your expectation from a lot of things.

59:51maybe have a bit more of a pessimistic view and you don't react to as many of the highs because you don't want to get burnt and beat up by the lows. So you kind of maintain this like calm, stoic, unbothered.

1:00:05George Heaton:That's exactly the same thing that I tried to talk about earlier. Maybe I was a bit too pessimistic about it, but it's about having that baseline where you can sit in. Yeah. Well, I think it's just, I thought about it and I don't think numbness is the right term because numbness would mean that you're numb to everything in life. Whereas more so, it's actually just like a protection. It's protection for the lows. You don't want to go too low in the inevitable lows that you're going to face in a challenging journey. So you just don't boost yourself up in the highs as much. But also like when you can develop that, that's where the real success in the business or the challenging pursuit comes because you can actually bear more pain and you can go through more easier because you're less phased by it.

1:00:55Because I find myself, if you don't develop that, then you end up living a life like this where you're in highs and lows and it saps the life out of you

1:01:03George Heaton:and you can't even operate and function. I think that's what causes like depression and anxiety and stuff like that. The constant like differentiation between how the body feels depending on what day and how much revenue you've done and what you've woke up to today and what fires you have to put out and all that kind of stuff. Like just try and keep level. I think the word you mentioned earlier is like stoicism. That's kind of like what that embodies, right? Just staying in a certain bubble throughout all the highs and lows. And you can celebrate the highs, but just get back to it the next day.

1:01:39Yeah. And I feel like it's discernment between like reacting to external things and maybe the things that are in like the material world. Right. And then, and not being reactive to those things, but then still being able to be aware of all of the amazing moments in your life with, you know, your partner that you love or your friends that you're hanging out with, being able to like enjoy the highs of the actual real things that matter, but then have this switch when you're in like the material world trying to conquer. It's like, let's not get affected by all these things. I don't know if you know Grace and Heart, Pure Sport.

1:02:16Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, of course. When I interviewed him, he was talking about, like, the material world and then, like, the ego rules in the material world. And then he was talking about how, like, love is, like, the ruler of the internal world or God or love or whatever he referenced. And I've been, like, applying that a lot to my life. Like, I am definitely more numb, and Jack's been witnessing it more over the last, like, six weeks. I am definitely more numb to things like say we have a big revenue day I'm like not that reactive or say we you know go through a low I'm not really that phased and I was trying to catch myself going like is it a bad thing that I'm like that I'm just numb and I'm like am I am I not doing I'm not feeling the most getting the most out of my life because I'm just like numbing everything but then I go but when I'm like sitting on a couch with someone that I love or walking on the beach without my phone I feel it all I see the way I feel it all and so maybe it's like this self-awareness of being able to like turn on the stoic nature when it needs to be had, but then also being able to like enjoy the most amazing moments of life.

1:03:22George Heaton:Yeah, dude. I think it's just a realization when you've done something so many times, like you've done the podcast so many times, or I've done a launch so many times, you just get to a point where you can remove yourself from it and you can feel the other things. Now, I think I'd be lying and I'm pretty sure you'd be lying if you said you didn't think about the work all the time though no like how do you actually remove yourself from that maybe grayson is the fucking guy that that can teach us all how to do that i can't do that yeah i'm always thinking about it like my mind is always thinking about the work yeah yeah there's a uh there's a piece in the thing i wrote i said uh even though your life is one people admire they didn't see what it took to get there in fact almost no one knows which is why it can feel isolating you wouldn't change a thing.

1:04:06Life is great. But sometimes you crave some normality, an ability to have your mind switch off, do normal things and actually enjoy them. Turn on a movie and not fall asleep. Make your cup of coffee and put milk in it without feeling like it'll make you less productive. There's a certain price to success no one seems to talk about. And it's not about the milk in your coffee or the inability to watch a movie. It's the constant over-optimization of life that can strip away your peace.

1:04:31George Heaton:Who's wrote this? It's fucking so true, isn't it? I want to be able to drink a milk coffee instead of a black coffee just because I could enjoy it. But I know how much more of a boost I'm going to get from just having a black coffee. Now, I don't know what it is, but it's like this over-optimization to optimize yourself to perform. It's so funny, isn't it? I think about that on like a, when I'm with someone, whether it's a friend, my girlfriend, whatever it is, and they're talking to me and I'm listening, but I'm not, I'm thinking about something else. I'm thinking about work. I'm thinking about what this next thing's got to be or what we're doing here or what's going on there.

1:05:11George Heaton:And it gets to a point where like they start to notice that. How do you, how do you like get out of that? That's that circle of, um, being there, but not being present yeah i uh so i relate to this a lot um i'll share my two cents as all it's worth i i i felt this so much i was like i would rather be at my laptop right now instead of listening a lot of instance like i would rather i would rather just be and and so there's there's two things here and Jack would know this, I do it all the time. Like, scientifically, we can't multitask. So if I'm thinking about something or I'm doing something on my laptop and you're trying to talk to me, like, I'm not going to be able to fully take it in.

1:06:01So then my thing, what I started to do is silence is not the answer and pretending that you're listening is not the answer. So the first thing I'll be is like, I need five minutes to finish this thing and then I'm all yours. But right now I can't do both of these things. I just need five minutes and then I'm all yours. I'll give you my full attention. That's the first thing. The second thing that I just had to be brutally honest with was like, do I actually want to hang out with them?

1:06:31George Heaton:Do I want to listen to what they're saying? Do I want to listen to what they're saying? Because then I met this girl that I absolutely fell in love with. I'm not even joking. And I literally sat on a couch for like five hours when I had so much work to do. I thought it was an hour and I blinked in five hours went by and I did not think about work once and I went whoa whoa whoa whoa like like all I think about is work all I really want to do is work but I just you managed to escape it and then so I went is it actually just the fact that all I want to do is work or have I not met people that like truly like made me switch off or maybe that's fleeting as well in itself but I just found that like silence is not the answer because then they start building up over is i mean if you ever like spoke to someone and they're not listening or they're not responding and you're just like it's annoying yeah that's how we are to the other people and so they're like checking in with that was so important for me or i just go people are not going to want to hang out with me so what happened with the girl then that's the story now i want to know that i want to know what's going on man because she did five hours straight with no work thoughts and she's just yapping to you and you're enjoying it what happened next yeah well maybe that's a story for another day come on that's just the main clip for this well okay if i if i if i run over it in brief and just because it's so irrelevant to this story but but i actually uh in in reflection i so i ended things with that girls with her for five months and i ended things with that girl and then um and then like i actually felt like it had nothing to do with her it was an internal battle of like a high achieving man thinking the grass is greener then you lost the battle and then you and then you get out there into and you go and dabble into the world and you realize hang on like what am I even thinking like am I unrealistic am I like wanting a lie here like is this thing that I want actually just like a a like a fantasy a pipe dream like this perfect person and then I had this realization of uh of like I actually think the power for a high achieving man is his ability to pick one that fits within the standard and then commit to it.

1:08:39Because I think there's freedom in the connection when you can show the commitment and just show up for them. Because then you don't have the distractions as much. You have this person that's supportive there for you. And so then I ended up just to loop around, it's like, there's been a thought around re-engaging. Because I'm like, And when can, it's not often that you can meet someone. There's not often that you can meet someone that literally makes you turn off for your work. Yeah. And like, and you actually genuinely want to.

1:09:11George Heaton:Right. I think there's a, there's a thing that, that men have and probably women too, where like you said there, you're looking for the perfect thing. And sometimes you think you've not got it, but actually it's about building it. Right. and the shiny object thing and you know the girl that's walking past that looks great like yeah there's going to be millions of them dude there's going to be millions of them times in your life and there's there's always going to be someone with a better look or talks a better way or you know whatever it is that you're interested in but it's it's about building it with within yourself and within that relationship and i think that's where a lot of men don't they they they they just don't get it and they have to like break it down and go to the next thing.

1:09:58George Heaton:I don't know whether it is a high achieving man thing or it's just a male thing. Well, the high achieving men have options though. And so I feel like - So it makes it even easier for them. To cave. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Like, I think there was a stat on like 50 % of men in the age of, I don't know the exact scene so it's not a quote but like 20 to 35 haven't had sex in the last 12 months or something crazy which is wild i don't know the exact statistic but so then it's like it's not a full man problem because it's probably a lot of men that like i just take what i can get but when you're but when you're like and i want to knock i want to like double down on that but i think there's like this thing that i found that when you're in the and there's all the statistics on like women wanting men making more money than them when all of this stuff like they they want all these criteria so if you fit the criteria you do get a bit more attention and so then there's like a nature of being able to like not cave for lust it's not about removing the desire or the or the the view of like like the lustful thoughts i think we're human it's our biology we're a man we're going to look at like we're going to look at that pretty girl and think she's gorgeous it's not about that but it's actually about having the control and the ability to decide and commit and then not cave into the lustful thoughts.

1:11:16George Heaton:I think Chris Williamson said it on a podcast, but he said like 90 % of women want the 5 % of men and the 5 % of men can have the 100 % of the women. And then the other 95 % of men don't get to have any of that 80 % of women. It's so mad, isn't it? It's brutal, man. But that's why we're all in competition. We're all trying to get some sort of success within ourselves and become a better person. So you can, you can get that partner. Yeah. And you know what I say to that? I say good because like, you know, when we grow up as a kid, right. Uh, what do they say to little boys? They say, go make something of yourself.

1:12:00That implies that like you as a little boy don't already have anything of yourself. Like your sister does. Like she has the portal of life. Like she's a woman. She's like God's greatest gift from nature. Yeah.

1:12:09George Heaton:And so, but like, but like when it's born with the basil, the man is born with nothing. With nothing. It's like, you're like, when like your sacrificial lamb, like frankly. And so you're like, you actually have to, as brutal as it sounds, it's like go and make something of yourself. And the beauty about it is, is it's actually a lot more simple. It's like the path's kind of laid out for a man. And so, and so I think there's a, there's a nature in that that's actually quite freeing. It's like good, because that means that when you go through the challenge, when you go through all of these things, you know, it's tied to something greater.

1:12:43You know, it's going to be able to make you show up as a better man. You're going to be building character that was hard to obtain, which makes it more valuable and attractive in the eyes of your dream partner and in everything.

1:12:54George Heaton:Yeah. Isn't it crazy? I think it's such a, it's such a cool thing though, that that's how humanity is, is brought together. like you've you've got to go and achieve these things to be able to understand what it takes to get to them to then be able to use that as an advantage with a partner to be able to then lock in that partner and build a life together it's it's cool i love it have you noticed that it always a lot of common denominator of that chat is it always goes back to something greater than us right like okay we're building up so we can attract the girl so we can have a family so we can build the legacy So then they can do the same thing and it's just a circle of life.

1:13:34Yeah. And it's like, and then your partner, you referenced, she's like, she believes in God. It's like even her. It's like, okay, well that's something greater. And there's always something greater. And I feel like because obviously we're on a self-help podcast, right? It's like, we are talking about how we can improve our lives, how we can make our lives better. But the common denominator is, is like the first step in the thing inside of all of the things we've been talking about is like removing the center of it being you and looking for something greater. It's like, okay, maybe to get things off the ground, you need to use that ego to fuel you a little bit and make you hungry and give you that little chip on your shoulder.

1:14:10But the actual true fulfillment and all of the most amazing parts of life, which is why we're doing it all, stem from creating something that goes beyond us.

1:14:21George Heaton:It's family values, isn't it? this family values whether you look at it as as in your own little family that you create or the world that you inspire and and you're able to do things for and provide for it's it's it is literally the circle of life it's crazy what's exciting you at the moment oh i've so if we if we take this back to just like just just chat yeah not philosophy just finished la marathon two months ago working on looking better feeling better getting stronger i think i think there's there's this thing called athex which ollie march on has started um and adidas have just taken it on they're coming to the states it's like a hybrid training thing i'm gonna compete in that in november i love like for me if we take it back to the raw basics i have to have a goal and a competition and something that I can like sink my teeth into to make myself feel good.

1:15:22George Heaton:Like for me going to the office and going to work and working on the brand and being obsessed with that one thing means I've got to have an output for myself physically, which makes me feel good to be able to go and do that. And for me, that's training. And then it's optimizing that training and getting better at something. And that's where I really enjoy like becoming better by becoming fitter, faster, stronger, whatever that is. Like I love that part of life that you're able to actually like physically see change within your human body not just the business yeah i mean it's our vessel it's like it's what allows us to show up as well right it's like the thing that yeah that's really cool so for you like there's no better feeling than knowing like you're fit and you're able and you're strong and you're fast and you know you can you can keep up with the people around you like that's that's a good thing that i love yeah i definitely think it there's a there's a feeling of like a, uh, like you're capable and you're like, you're capable of doing things.

1:16:23Like you're able to throw yourself in the deep end more. You've got like more of a baseline in, in your fitness and your health that you can like show up and do things and do the hard things easier.

1:16:33George Heaton:Yeah. I love that part of life. And I didn't have that throughout my like twenties to late twenties. And I only started developing at like 27, 28 years old and really getting into it. but I feel like now it's become such a like a strong part of my life that I love and it inspires people and I'm able to be around these athletes I'm able to go and train with Hunter or whoever the next two four seven athlete is that we're able to bring in I'm like I can try it I can't keep up with them obviously because they're elite athletes but I can give it my all and show them that like I'm I'm here for this as well and it's not just a money player and it's not just a brand player that I'm doing like I want it all to be like part of that ecosystem and that family yeah what is it about the marathons like obviously you just did a sub three yeah our marathon like what is it about is that is that just tying into that goal and having a having a like a uh like something that's challenging for you to like achieve and tick off the list outside of the business yeah i think it's about like separating yourself even though it plays a massive part in the business because now we have this active wear line so if i don't show up and i'm not doing well in that that realm of my life people probably think i'm like why is this guy doing fucking running shorts and whatever carbon plated shoes if he's not a runner and he's not doing them things so it kind of holds me accountable and gives me like a bit of a chip on my shoulder that i've got to go and do them things so so it's kind of like and and i understand that with for a lot of people that i'd be a negative and they would it would it would probably cause them like depression and and like make them feel like they're um they're not worthy of the thing that they're doing but for me it's like i i'll lean into that i'll lean into that energy and i like being able to put out like decent results for someone who's also running a business and all these other things that i can like kind of keep up in the fitness world yeah maybe it doesn't matter to anyone else maybe they don't give a fuck but i do yeah but i would even say that people having to do that like wouldn't make them depressed because it gives them something to strive towards.

1:18:34It gives them actually a purpose.

1:18:36George Heaton:Right. And it depends how you handle pressure, right? You can either handle pressure by going all in on it and digging yourself into the deep end, or you can say, that's not for me. I like going in all in and I love pressure. Yeah. But I just wonder, like you go through more of it and it's just, you become better at dealing with it. So then you're more willing to go through more of it and then you achieve more because you take more risks. And it's just that typical cycle. It's like typically when you start out, you're not really good at going through pressure because you haven't done it. Right.

1:19:06It's like you build up the armor and the ability to do it.

1:19:09George Heaton:Same with anything. Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate you coming on the show, dude. Nice one. I feel like we have yapped. It's been a good yapped. It's hard. It's really good yapped. I feel like we've been trying to make this happen for a little bit and it's been a pleasure. I appreciate it. I love the chat, dude. It's so fun when you just get to go deep with someone on things outside of what you're used to talking about. Yeah. It's a pleasure. Appreciate it, dude. Last one more. Thank you, dude. Cheers. Bye.