#155: Parenting Expert: "Boys Don't Have A Blueprint For Manhood Anymore"

0:00Dr. Shefali, welcome to the show.

0:02Dr. Shefali:Thank you for having me. What does it mean to be a conscious parent? A conscious parent is one who realizes that they parent their children from their own unhealed wounds, their own inner baggage that they may never have looked at. Conscious parenting means to raise yourself, raise your inner child that was left wounded, like keep growing that inner child up into an adult self as much as it is about raising the real child in front of you. So if your real child in front of you has a tantrum and then you have a tantrum, the tendency is that we blame the child, right? We yell at the child, we fix the child, we control the child, but we don't look inside ourselves at the mirror and realize that we lost our temper because of our inner child.

0:55Dr. Shefali:So conscious parenting understands that to parent the child before you, you better be ready to parent the child within you. And most of us are almost better parents to the child outside than we are to the child inside. So eventually, we will stop being good parents to the child outside because it's correlated. How we treat ourselves is how we treat others. And so this is really deep because we're raising children. So that child really triggers us at that really granular level of our childhood. So what do you mean by real child, the actual human child? And you're referencing inner child as the one inside of us.

1:40Dr. Shefali:The unhealed parts in us that we have not paid attention to, that we've been thinking is healed, but gets activated in the parent-child relationship. Fascinating. And you've got these two books, right? Yeah. You've got one for raising conscious sons and raising conscious daughters. When I asked you which one you prefer, before I even finished the sentence, you said the boys. Why so? Well, because we have an adult male wounded problem, a wounded adult male problem in the world. We're seeing these adult men in our world causing untold damage to women and children and to people of color, to the disadvantaged, to the poor.

2:25Dr. Shefali:And we can keep being angry at them. We can keep calling them narcissists and assholes. But then what? We have to ask, why is it that these men who are causing untold damage are doing so? What in their childhood must have happened? And that's where I began to transform and alchemize my anger at what I was seeing in the world to how can I really make a difference. And so I wrote the book Raising Conscious Sons because I realized that there's a lot parents can do differently to raise the boy so that he grows up into his conscious masculine and is not walking around either, you know, too separate from his masculine, like doesn't even know how to be in his masculine or too much in the caricature, what the manosphere talks about, and be all like so masculine that he's almost toxic and almost exaggerated.

3:31Dr. Shefali:So boys don't have a conscious blueprint for how to be masculine. And I try to provide that in the book. So when you say it's the men that are creating the problems, what specifically do the problems look like? Well, they're not really just creating the problem. Nothing is singular, right? The men are not, yes, they're causing a lot of problems. I'm not trying to dismiss how violent, how damaging, destructive men can be. But we have to understand they are also working within a system. And the problems they're causing are the imposition of their ego, their delusions of grandeur, their desire to dominate and conquer at all costs, their greed, capitalism, power, all the things that we call the toxic masculine.

4:25Dr. Shefali:Masculinity on its own is a beautiful thing. What does that look like then? What does masculinity on its own look like? And I propose conscious masculinity. Masculinity is driven by the hormone, mainly the hormone of testosterone. And testosterone is the hormone of pursuit and desire and competition and competence and achievement. and risk-taking, and exploration, and curiosity. So when we are in our masculine, we are driven, we are purposeful, we are initiators, we are leaders, we are pursuers of novelty. Testosterone is called the novelty hormone. And when it's contained and harnessed, masculinity is a protective force.

5:12Dr. Shefali:It is what we need. It's how we left Africa. You know, we wanted the new and the untouched and the unexplored. But the feminine is beautiful too, right? And the feminine, when it's mutated into an extreme, can be toxic too. We just don't talk about that as much because the toxic feminine just kind of mutates into itself, but the toxic masculine attacks others, right? Because men are more outward driven and females are more inward driven typically. So masculinity on its own is a beautiful force, but boys are not given a real blueprint for it. They're told on one hand, don't be like a girl, right?

5:49Dr. Shefali:Don't cry like a girl. Don't show your feelings like a girl. Man up. Okay. And then on the other extreme, they're told, they're given this caricatured version of this extreme, you know, have six Bentleys and have big biceps and have a square jaw and be a 666 or whatever. and both ways feel like, okay, this feels too extreme. This feels, you know, too difficult to do because I do want to cry sometimes. So who do I need to be? Do you not think that those aren't the opposites though? I feel like those are more closer towards one character, which is, you know, big biceps, Bentleys, all of this. And then equally, don't share your emotions.

6:31Correct. The opposite though would be share all of your emotions be vulnerable.

6:37Dr. Shefali:Correct, correct, correct. It could be that too, yes. Or show your feelings, talk about your feelings, but it feels too hard for men to do that. So all of this feels too difficult because it's all telling him who they should be more of or who they should be less of, right? So even if it's show your emotions, but men typically don't access their emotions verbally, they access their emotions through the body. So when we say talk, show your feelings, use your words, we're really talking about a more feminine principle. So what if they can't, right? Does that mean that they should be shamed? So I see in many childhoods where there are sons involved, that mothers really have a hard time with boys because boys are wild energy, typically.

7:28Dr. Shefali:They are big energy. They show their emotions through motion, through their body. And mothers typically kind of get really afraid of that because it reminds them of the volatile men in their lives. And every woman has met one or known of one angry, volatile man. So the mother doesn't know how to manage these big emotions. So what I teach in the book is how to read your son's body and understand that he's showing his emotions very clearly through his body. Don't force him right away to use his words. Let him run. Let him explore. Let him be big. Give him space. And then come back to words. Right?

8:13Dr. Shefali:So just that small tweak can make such a difference for a boy. And you know, you have a little boy inside you. sometimes you need space. You can't access words. Women typically, because our left and right brain hemispheres are much more interconnected, typically, we can access our words while we're crying. And while we're angry, we can do that. But men, typically, they need some space. They may withdraw. They may punch a wall. They show it through physical. Like, I need to get out of here. I need to go to my man cave, you know? So then if we tie in with now, got a bit of an understanding on what masculinity is, how would you define toxic masculinity?

8:56Dr. Shefali:So toxic masculinity is taking those same traits of the desire to achieve and compete and pursue into a toxic extreme realm where you are now dominating at all costs. You are manipulating, You're exploiting resources instead of sharing. You are taking, acquiring, acquisition. You're hoarding. So when we used to live as hunter-gatherers, 8 ,000, 10 ,000 years ago and before, we were interdependent. We were communal. We lived on the earth. I'm not romanticizing that life, but there was something to be said for how we survived and lived together. And then we turned and the big turn was the agricultural revolution where we now began to hoard and live on land and have a fence and then the wife and the children and the dog and the house.

9:49And so now we have ownership and then we created marriage and monogamy and all these institutions to own and possess and hoard and capitalism and all the isms, racism, all of this was created.

10:02Dr. Shefali:None of it is really true. So we've created systems to own and the few men on top have gone to an extreme and created an ambience, an aura of this toxic masculinity. Our entire world is getting skewed into domination, extremism, exploitation. Look how we've marauded the earth and taken it all for ourselves. This is a symptom of toxic masculinity. where the need to pursue and achieve and compete goes to an extreme mutation, where now it's not egalitarian, it's not communal, it's not interdependent. It is for the greater good of only a few at the top. So even when we lived in hunter-gatherer tribes, there was the alpha male and the chief.

10:58but the chief was the chief because he knew how to pull the tribe together

11:06Dr. Shefali:and the women were seen as egalitarian not lesser than do you think they're being seen as lesser than now and i guess one thing i just want to want to preface is i'm not educated on this i i love to explore and just poke where my mind goes um but one thing i do that does come to mind is is and we haven't unpacked like specifics it's more just being you know like it's a few men and and and and all of this that that are benefiting everything it's selfish we're hoarding it all but i guess the one thing that i'm fascinated in is what actually is the alternative because when you look at and this is where i'm keen to dive in with you because when we look at you know maybe the world back then in the hunter gatherers phases there was probably and definitely all these other different challenges and all these other really wild things that are going down.

11:54But I wonder what the alternative is to actually create, whether it's conscious people and people that are living a conscious life, what actually is the alternative? Because we see extremes, right? And I do have a trouble and a challenge when it comes to labels like toxic masculinity because they'll bundle in someone that wants to self-improve and get bigger biceps and trained with someone that beats women.

12:21Dr. Shefali:And that's also how boys are getting confused because they're so scared to be toxically masculine. Like they hear this term and they're like, I'm a good guy. So I agree with you. We have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. We have clubbed all men into the same category. And it's difficult for men to go, hey, I'm a good guy. And I have so many good men in my life. That's why I've written this book because I have compassion for how, and I'm going to say this, many times we women throw all men into the same category because we've been hurt. We've been hurt. We feel unsafe. I've been molested, sexually abused.

12:57Dr. Shefali:So I get it. I get the PTSD, but we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. We need to talk about the system, not individual men, because there are many, many amazing men who want to do it well, but they may just not have the chance, the words or the blueprint. And that's why I wrote this book because I see how many of the adult males in my life and my practice are good men wanting to do right. They may just not feel safe. They may just kind of mess up. They may be unhealed. No one taught them how to integrate their own sexuality or their own aggression. They want to do good, but they don't know how.

13:35Dr. Shefali:So giving benefit of doubt because we can't just keep calling men assholes. We can't because women are raising men. So are we all raising assholes? And what does that say about us? So I'm like, no, let's really look at the beauty of the masculine and harness it into the most conscious masculine we can. And the conscious masculine involves an integration with the feminine, but it doesn't discount masculinity. Yeah. So something that's coming my mind right now is the thing you said earlier around how toxic masculinity is one thing. It's very loud and it's very prominent. We talk about it a lot. There's also toxic femininity, which we don't talk about a lot.

14:20Why do you think the toxic femininity isn't talked about and the toxic masculinity is?

14:26Dr. Shefali:Well, because we do live in a patriarchal system and patriarchy is on their own are not bad either. They're just called patriarchies. Whoever's on top could be the matriarchy, right? But because we live in the system where males are very visibly in charge and have taken more charge through toxic masculinity, we can easily label that, right? But also, when masculinity becomes toxic, it can become aggressive. It can become exploitative to a very extreme degree, right? You won't find women typically ready to go to war. We have to take care of the children. We have got our menopause. We are going to cycle.

15:19Dr. Shefali:We don't have testosterone. that makes us, we have testosterone, but we don't have to the same degree as males. So we have oxytocin, we have estrogen that makes us bond and cry and feel and empathize more. So testosterone is the defining hormone that changes it. It's way higher in males that gives males the aggression so it can become very toxic, very, very clearly toxic. So, so I guess on top of that, then from my understanding so far in this conversation is toxic masculinity is toxicity and it's external it's it's a uh it's an external force physical nature toxic femininity is internal manipulation maybe like uh using the words bending stories like and mostly against the female herself mostly against the fear.

16:17Dr. Shefali:That's interesting. I'm not saying it. Because I've not experienced that. No, no, no, no. Maybe the women only experience that. Yeah, no, I think that we can be, yes, so let's talk about it. We can definitely, in our overthinking, over-exaggerating, over-emoting, we can manipulate the whole room. We can take all the attention to ourselves and not realize we are. We can stay stuck in our victimhood and not own our co-creation. These are the ways femininity can become toxic too. I've seen many women who refuse to take ownership of their co-creation as well, right? Because we get stuck in our martyrdom and our victimhood.

16:53Dr. Shefali:And many times, we women, we haven't learned how to have good boundaries. And when that is taken to an extreme, we can allow harm to ourselves, to others, because we don't know how to say no. And then because we are overdoing it and over-pleasing and over-giving, we exhaust ourselves and then we take it out on the children. These are the faces of the toxic feminine. It can be very harmful as well. And women don't like to own that. We don't. We don't. I've been helping people grow their podcasts now for over a year and it keeps going from strength to strength to the point where I genuinely feel I've cracked the code.

17:33And as I'm recording here in New York City after a massive recording block, I look at my phone and one of my clients, Billy, has just hit 100 ,000 followers on his podcast. We started his show only four months ago and fast forward to now over 50 million views and 100 ,000 followers. His whole life has completely changed. Now, I'm not saying that if we worked together, we can replicate this. But what I am saying is that when you plug your skill sets, your mission, your passion, the things that you really want to talk about into a system that's proven from people that are actually walking the walk, you fast track the journey and achieve the results that you want a whole lot quicker than you ever could alone.

18:18This is why I created PodPro. But what I've even done on top of this is I've constilled all of the information that Billy learned and a lot of the secrets to success and building a successful podcast into a free podcast toolkit. This will walk you through everything that you need to know to build a successful show in 2026. If you go to www.thepodpro.com forward slash toolkit and put your details in, you can get your copy completely free. The only podcast toolkit you will ever need. Let's get right back to the show. The thing that I'm fascinated in is when we assess all of it, we realize that there's pieces in the system that are not ideal.

18:59And one thing on top of that as well is, you know, I truly believe that it is the men's, it's on the men because the women wouldn't be saying it's toxic masculine if they weren't being harmed by the men. Like in terms of mentally, they weren't having, getting screwed over by men, you know, being harmed by men. There wouldn't be this division because the men would be so amazing that they'd be like, I can't imagine life without this man. Right. where I've observed and in the lack of limited information that I know, I've just seen men be weak in the form of a man, like going away from anything to do with their masculine positively to the point where they can't really be the man that the woman needs.

19:47So then they maybe treat her wrong or she feels like she needs to do a lot of the stuff and then gets to a point where there's actually division because the women don't even feel like they need the man. And also the women lose faith and hope that they can even find a man that is even going to give them what they need. So then they just, I'm just going to do it myself. And then the men don't get any attention and then they feel lost and weak. And then the women feel like they don't need a man and then it creates division. Is there anything you've written in the books or researched and studied on not about trying to say that men and women are the same because we're not, but equally like how do we raise children to become adults that actually combine and conquer, not divide?

20:37Dr. Shefali:Right, right. And I think it's when we truly celebrate our differences and we're not trying to become the other. We're not trying to make men more like women or women more like men. We're really honoring who we are. and what we bring to the table. You know, I know, for example, I'll never bring to the table what my male partner can bring. I can try as hard as I like to be like him. I just can't do it because I'm not designed in my hormonal blueprint to be like him. So I don't, it's not a competition. And I think we've started to feel competitive with each other and feel like we need to outdo each other.

21:20Dr. Shefali:and we're missing the beauty that each one brings. Now, I have many friends who are women, they call themselves women, who are born female, who are very masculine, way more masculine than I am, but that's authentic to them. They're not trying to be like a man. They just have more masculine qualities. So they're more compartmentalized, they're less emotional, maybe they have a higher testosterone in their bodies, they're more risk takers. you know, people say, many women will report that when they take testosterone replacement therapy, they are like, oh, holy shit. Now I know what men go through.

21:58Dr. Shefali:I don't have that much empathy, and I'm more go-getter, and I'm taking more risks, and I'm more aggressive and irritable. They see what testosterone can do. So I have many females in my life who are more masculine, but it's what they are authentically. They're not trying to be more masculine. They just are. So when it comes to parenting, we have a golden opportunity to allow our children to feel like they can celebrate who they are. Very masculine, very feminine. It's okay. And when we allow our children to authentically celebrate who they are without telling them that they're too much of this or too much of that, they actually grow up more grounded, more resilient, and more connected to themselves.

22:43it's interesting though because do you feel like kids even know who they are though like do you think there's an element of we're so influenced by our environment our surroundings our teachers who we get told what what we're told is success what would like do you not feel like identity is formed up here and there's and we're also influenced as a kid by our environment so we actually don't really even know exactly who we are. We're just forming ourselves.

23:11Dr. Shefali:Exactly. So we as parents need to understand that we need to give children a space, which is called childhood, to kind of develop into who they can be, which means to explore, to be confused, to have questions. And they need that room. But we don't give them room. We give them prescription lists and we tell them who they need to be. You are Hindu. You are Jewish. You are a male and you need to act like this and you need to be straight or don't be gay. You know, we give them prescription lists too early. And in the same way, if they say a boy comes to you and says, mommy, I think I'm a girl. We don't have to jump on that bandwagon either.

23:57Dr. Shefali:It's exploration. It's safety. The first 10 years. We don't need to go crazy by giving an identity to our children. But that's where parents suffer is because they get so nervous because they grew up with prescription lists. So they're trying to curate our children. Be more like this. Be more like that. Don't be like this. Don't be shy. Don't be introverted. And when we do that and we don't give our children space. do you feel like if we don't do it though but we if we i think what's interesting about this and i'm not a parent and i'm not educated on this i'm exploring this if we don't parent with guidelines and stuff but we're equally going to send our kids to school they're just going to be parented by other people's parents they will be they will be and you cannot protect them from everything But in your home, you can do a lot of good or negative.

24:56Dr. Shefali:And these books empower parents to say, okay, I don't know what the world is doing. I can't control the world. But I can educate myself on how I can best show up for my kids. And that's why I wrote these two books, because I saw that parents were so anxious about all these influences. And now even more than ever, because we have, you know, strangers through our children's phones and iPads and video games. So we're scared. But I wanted to give parents the power and the hope and the optimism that there's a lot they can do. And so every book, every chapter has tools and strategies. There's a lot we can do in the house and we should not outsource that responsibility or that power.

25:38Yeah, I just feel like it's interesting because if we send our kids to school and they spend more time away from us, but with other people's parents, and I use that teachers that other people's parents, then I feel like there's almost a sense of if we're prepared to send them to school and not homeschool them, then we're kind of leaving it up to them to really influence how our kids grow up. and how they think and what they think is right and wrong.

26:10Dr. Shefali:That's why the time we do have with them should be purposeful, intentional, connected, and conscious. There's a lot of time we have with our children. And the more we outsource our parenting to schools, to others, to community events and social media and the screens and video games, yeah, then we will lose our influence. So these books are about taking our influence back. Cool. So let's unpack the books. Why are they separate? Why don't you have a book about parenting? You have them split up between the two. Well, because there is such a thing as differences in sexes. And ask any parent raising boys and girls, they will be like, holy moly, they are so different.