#86: DELETE Your Ego and Become Dangerously Confident (Higher Up Wellness)

27:08So for me, the biggest superpower in improving as a host or as a podcast is listening to myself. People ask me all the time, how do you, no, what's your, what podcast do you listen to the most? I was like me. It's like I listen to myself more than anyone else. I actually don't remember the last time I finished another podcast because I'm recording so many. I just listen to myself. And the reason I do that is because then I can listen and actually know what I sound like. The biggest problem is people actually don't like listening to themselves. People hate their own voices. If you hate your own voice, it's a sign that you're not listening to yourself enough.

27:42If you hate your own voice, you're probably a shit communicator. And the reason for that is because you listen to it and you cringe. change but if you love your voice it means that you've worked on it so for me i went out and went okay i'm saying i think you say filler words i think filler phrases are even worse people saying it's almost like and all of these things so i might listen and see all right i counted 15 of me saying it's almost like in my podcast and it's irrelevant next week i'm not going to try eliminate that but i'm just going to try and say it under 10 times i'm aware of it and the next minute i do that recording and then i say it eight times okay the week after that i'm going to try and say under five times.

28:20By the end of the month, fully out of the vocab. And that was my way of improving my communication and thing. And the more you can do that, the more conviction you can have. But I wonder where we get clarity and conviction. Do you have any thoughts on this? First off, that is the best piece of communication advice anyone listening to this could possibly get. I remember when I started making videos, how much I hated watching them back. Hated. Everyone says that I hate the sound of my own voice. You're so right. It's because you suck at communicating. You're not comfortable with it. We're about to say, I would probably sound like narcissists saying our favorite podcast to listen to is our own, but I treat it as an athlete treats game film.

28:53What do they do after games? They go watch themselves and rep and rewind and rewind and rewind and they listen and they watch over and over again. It's the same concept. I've never heard anyone say that. That's brilliantly put. If you hate the way you sound, your communication skills aren't good enough. That is the best way to refine your communication skills. And the people on TikTok have done an insane thing from a video that I made. I didn't call for a challenge, but I made a video talking about the importance of communication skills. And I said, something you can do is create a burner account on TikTok and just record yourself talking every day for 60 seconds for at least a month.

29:27I didn't call to action. I didn't tell anybody to do it. That was seven months ago. As of today, I did the math last week. Almost 20 ,000 people have made TikTok accounts tagging me in the higher up public speaking challenge. And that is like the most beautiful thing I've ever been a part of. And it was an accident. And now all of these people are building so much confidence. Some of them are blowing up on the internet, bro. Like some people's lives are changing and it's because they stepped out of their comfort zone and they took a risk. And even if they don't blow up, people say, I had one guy say, he had like gained a hundred followers, but he said, I have so much more meaningful conversation with my wife.

30:03I'm able to talk about how I feel. That is power. That is impact. So I say all that to say, that's incredible advice, what you just said. As far as how we develop conviction, I believe it comes from curiosity. I have a conviction about what I talk about because I was curious about how I could get healthier. And then once I figured it out a little bit, I found Greg O 'Gallagher, who we were talking about, who helped me understand, it's just a calorie deficit. Eat enough protein, train. I started to realize when I lost weight and got stronger and fitter, people treated me differently. That's interesting.

30:38I realized that I felt better. I thought more clearly. And then my entire life started to change as a result of changing my body. So I became convicted on keeping that physical state intact. And then I became convicted on telling others about it. It's because I know how much better life is on this side of the fence. And so conviction comes from curiosity, meaning you have to go and just find things that you might be interested in. Might not be forever, it might be a phase, but they all teach you something. So that desire to learn and want more for yourself can turn into conviction and helping others do the same.

31:09Stems from curiosity. That's that deep-rooted initial starting phase. It makes me think about the competency scale. I was just about to say this. Yeah, you were thinking about this? Yes, bro. So like the unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence, and then conscious competence, and then unconscious competence. Bingo. Right? But if we think about it and we apply it to curiosity and confidence, right? Let's try and see if we can word smith read this. Come on. Okay. Okay, so when you're unconsciously incompetent, that's the curiosity phase. You don't know what you don't know. I am curious at doing this thing.

31:47I am unconscious of how bad I am at the thing. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So then we progress to the conscious incompetence. The curiosity leads us to dive in. We try and we realize we suck so much. and we realize that, fuck, it's actually not as easy as we thought it was going to be. This is where most people drop off. They're like, I'm out. I tried. I'm not curious about that thing anymore. It's because you're shit at it. But if you can break past that conscious incompetence, you now become consciously competent. You got to think, you got to be a bit alert, but you can do it if you think about it. Now, this is the exciting phase because you know that if you put your mind to it, you can be good at it.

32:28You can be competent at the thing. So you start to develop this conviction. You start to develop this confidence in what you're doing. Then what happens is you become unconsciously competent. You can do it with your eyes closed. And that is the point where the thing that you're doing will really start to change your life because you're becoming closer towards mastery. Then when you have that, you become extremely convicted at what you've done. And you think that everyone should fucking do it so then when you have that conviction this is where the power comes people can feel it because you say it to them like when we're in the gym earlier today and i was saying to that um i was saying to jake i was like dude when i went all in on this i was negative 22 000 in my bank and i said that and i was like he went his face was like and then i showed him the screenshot and it was under two years ago.

33:20And I went, dude, the only reason I can speak with so much conviction is because I once was in a really low place and I was curious on what better looked like. And then it led me down to this point where I'm unconsciously competent at doing this thing and I'm extremely confident at doing the thing. And that's why I have so much conviction sharing with you. And for that, I'm like, fuck, it all starts with curiosity. Do you think curiosity is like an absolute superpower? Yes, yes. The respected authority or professional was once the curious amateur. Every pro athlete we look up to, every authority figure in our space of social media once sucked at the thing they did or that they do.

34:04That's just the way that it is. The first time you ever pick up a baseball bat, you suck at baseball, but you stick with it for decades and then maybe you get drafted or maybe you play at a high level. The thing that gets in the way of that childlike curiosity, going back to childhood and what wounds can do to people. When you're a kid, you don't run anything through a filter. You just try stuff. You fall down, you skin your knee, you get back up, you try again, you learn to ride the bike that way. And then we have this series of things that condition us and filter our thoughts and actions because we think we need to act a certain way when we don't.

34:40You know, the ocean of fear is a mile wide and an inch deep. It's one of my favorite quotes. and if you can operate from that lens of like that ego is really just protecting you because you feel afraid. The only reason people quit when they're shit at something in that conscious competence, unconscious competence area, sort of in the gray area between the two is because their ego gets in the way and the curiosity dies because the ego is bigger than the childlike curiosity they have. So absolutely, I think if you can keep childlike wonder in everything that you do and stay tapped into that frequency within yourself, then you can learn to do incredible, incredible things.

35:15yeah i want to touch on this childlike thing in a little bit but i think we first should unpack a bit of ego i'm fascinated by ego a lot i've been talking about it a bit just because you know i think people get ego and confidence confused and they like combine the two but i think confidence is a superpower and ego is a killer what are your thoughts on ego have you done any thinking around around ego and how it plays a role negatively positively yeah confidence is a byproduct of evidence. Confidence is evidence-based. I firmly believe that. Ego is a protection mechanism that we have rooted deeply within ourselves.

35:52And it's not, it's something to be aware of. People talk about ego death and killing the ego and not letting it get in the way of anything. But I challenge people to understand why it's there. It is there to protect us, to keep us safe. But we live in a very safe world now. We're not running from lions, tigers, and bears, and we're not having to forage for our food and we stay in a climate controlled house like we are here in atlanta the ego is a protection mechanism but it is rarely properly placed the ego rarely comes up in a time where you say i am so glad that my ego got in the way of that it's just that just doesn't happen much yeah it definitely gets in the way um ryan holiday's book ego is the enemy great read and uh you know i think about ego because some people say it's a superpower and i disagree and um i have this awesome thing i put it on my story and it was a it was a it was the difference between confidence and ego i'm going to read it to you because i think this is fascinating so confidence rooted in self-assurance and truth doesn't need validation makes others feel safe, inspired, or empowered.

37:03Says, I know who I am, and I'm okay if you don't. Ego. Rooted in insecurity and comparison. Craves recognition and superiority. Makes others feel less than or dismissed. Says, I need you to see how great I am, so I can believe it too. Confidence is quiet. Ego is loud. Confidence doesn't have to prove anything. Ego always does. I don't have anything to follow there. Whoever wrote that needs a pat on the back. Chat GPT. There you go. Says, I know who I am. We're so screwed. There's going to be an AI version of us in a year doing this. Says, I know who I am and I'm okay if you don't. That's confidence.

37:49So showing up in a way that you are deeply rooted in self-assurance. You know who you are. And you're okay if other people don't. Because when you're okay with other people, when other people don't get you, you're not filtered because you're willing to be you. I actually think that's what money has unlocked for me, to be honest. It's given me an ability to think and speak freely because I actually don't really care as much. You know, I've had times before where I've been maybe in a bad place and I haven't felt like I could be more, less restrictive with what I say, reason being, because I've been I would be scared of people abandoning me and leaving me or canceling me or whatever it might be.

38:32But then as I found like the more money I made, it just allowed me to be truly myself more. And I found that to be quite a powerful thing. But ego, I need you to see how great I am so I can believe it too. And so that pillar there is overextending, overcompensating, like overdoing who you are, saying who you're not in hopes of people perceiving you in a way that's not you. And then that then reminds you by getting their affirmation, it reminds you that you are okay, even though you don't feel okay. Correct. It's like insecure. And I think it's riddled with that. Yeah. It's an incomplete energy source.

39:11It's not self-sustaining like true confidence is. Confidence comes from within while ego is a validation from outside. So you will always need more to feed. You will always have to stoke the fire of ego, right? The confidence, the fire of confidence within you is just self-sustaining. It's a smooth burning flame. But I completely agree. I need you to know how great I am so I can believe it. That's a byproduct of something that happened to somebody that made them feel like they weren't enough, whether it was coming from financial scarcity or parental abandonment or something later in life. I don't know.

39:44But something happened to somebody that makes them feel like they're not enough and they tie their identity to that until they can latch the identity on to something else. My coach, Kian, has a great quote. The more things you need to feel okay, the more fragile you are. And I think the less we need to be okay, the more rooted we can be within ourselves. The more you feel the need to be okay? The more you feel that you need to be okay, the more things you need to be okay, the more fragile you are. I need my routine. I need my house. I need my perfect wake up, morning walk, morning sunlight, cold exposure.

40:18If I don't get it, I'm going to freak out. If I miss the gym today, I'm going to freak out. the more things you need in your life to feel okay in your nervous system, the more fragility you have. Yeah. You become dependent on the routine. You become a slave to the same, the lifestyle you swore to break free from, right? Like people, I did this, I was overweight, 55, 60 pounds overweight, lost the weight. Cause I was tired of looking the way I looked, feeling the way I felt. And then I just became addicted to calorie tracking, exercising, and didn't go out anymore. Didn't have fun because I went from a slave to my old routine to just a slave to my new routine.

40:51That's not freedom. That's just reworking the bondage to a different font. And so once I realized that, I was able to live in the middle of the spectrum, if you will. Still go out, enjoy time with my friends, still hit my goals. The goal is not anything other than the feelings. We don't want the thing. We want the feeling that the things give us. And I didn't want to be fit. I wanted to feel what it felt like to be proud of the skin that I was in. I wanted to feel what it felt like to be accepted. That's where I've personally found a lot of power in building a relationship with God is that that's something that can't really be taken like anything worldly, my health, anything.

41:28And so there's a lot of security and peace within that. So yeah, the more things you need or we need to be okay, the more fragility we have, like you said, because we're just stuck in the routine. That's an interesting take on routine. I wonder, it's definitely not all bad because it can get you to a place where you really want to be. But what's really important is figuring out why you want to go to the place that you want to be and what's there. It's just this realization of, is that the thing you really want? Do you want that thing? Do you want what it does for you? Do you want what it makes you look like?

42:09What is the reason you want to get to that particular place? Because if the routine is the thing that you're sacrificing in the short term to then unlock this thing that you want in the long term, but the thing that you want in the long term isn't even substantial enough to make you feel a certain way, then guess what? The goalpost is going to go a little bit longer and you're going to be in a routine that you don't enjoy for even longer. I wonder about that. But I also wonder if that's all bad either. I get deep with this stuff all the time. Well, there's absolutely positives to routine, right?

42:44You're a good example of this. You moved across the world, so now home is Austin, Texas, from Australia to Austin, Texas. Now you're here. You've got all your stuff in bags. You don't have your meals ready. You don't have your food, your groceries. You don't really know where you are in the city, but you still figure out how to eat the way that you want to eat, more or less. You still figure out a way to train. You are not stuck in being in a certain environment where you can maximize control because you have a degree of knowledge that allows you to be in just about any environment and do the big rocks of what you need to do.

43:16I like to separate life into big rocks and little rocks. Got that analogy from Dr. Lane Norton. But so long as you're consistently eating whole foods, training, moving your body and sleeping, you don't necessarily have to be tied to your house. You can be gone for weeks at a time and still keep those big rocks in place. But so many people don't have the knowledge and power and autonomy yet to be there. So they feel like I can't travel. I hear this all the time from my clients. Going on vacation, I'm so anxious. What am I gonna do when I eat out? I go, what do you mean? You're gonna enjoy yourself.

43:46You're gonna make the right choices. You're gonna be present. But they feel that the results and the power come from being in the environment. But in reality, it's getting your inner world in check and getting your knowledge in check because that's the real power. So there's absolutely power to routine and then there's power in being able to adapt that routine to whatever environment you're in. Yeah, I use this analogy I came up with. It's kind of like I see it as the goal is for you to be a table and then everything else to just be plates on the table. But a lot of us wear the table and we make something in our life a leg of that table.

44:25so if any point in time that leg can leave us routine relationship partner thing item whatever it is if that leaves which it can at any point in time a leg of the table breaks so not only do you crumble but everything else comes crumbling down and it's it's more so applicable for relationships i think what we can do is we can get into a relation a relationship and we're not full within ourself and they're filling a gap in our life. And then when they fill that gap, they basically become a leg of this table. And then we start building on this table, all this stuff. And technically that leg can leave at any point in time and it will break everything because that relationship comes crumbling down and you are an absolute mess.

45:12So then everything else takes a back step too. So how can we just, I think a goal can be to just strive towards being full with the table, just you and everything else becomes a bonus, the hobbies, the routines, the relationships, everything, because then we can't be broken as easy. Just like that routine piece. It's a fascinating thing. I just went back to when I was ice bathing first thing every single morning, and I still wish I had an ice bath at my home. But in Australia, I did it every morning. I think it was the biggest game changer for me. But I did get to a point where if I was away and I didn't have it, I'd be yawning a little bit more.

45:46I would be a bit less productive in the mornings and my best friend, he wouldn't do that every morning, but he was still getting up. So the body can get up and not yawn, but we kind of like, we maybe just in our minds think we need that thing. And so then we show up in a way that's a bit more tired when we don't have the thing. Yeah, that table analogy you came up with is perfect. That's perfect. We love as human beings to outsource the things we should intrinsically get to other people. We place people on a pedestal as a form of idolatry, but people are not perfect. They will always let us down or they will leave or they will fall short just as you will, just as I will.

46:30And so when you make a person a leg of your table, that's such a great way to put it. You become wobbly when they become wobbly or they crack or they fall off completely. And so it's part of doing that work. I had Quinlan Walther on my show who's a fantastic content creator. And she talks all about doing deep work on yourself, facing the parts of yourself that you lock away and suppress and like you said so so beautifully just a moment ago instead of being whole as ourselves we look for someone else to fill a gap but the truth is you should look at the people in your life as a wonderful beautiful awesome accessory to what the path you're already on the thing you're already building and doing like you said you are the table they are the plate not they are a piece of the foundation of the table so i think i think you literally hit the nail on the head dude easier said than done but it's something we can strive towards it is definitely not easy yeah i think when emotion gets involved it's it can be quite hard and challenging especially when you've got people that you love and you know truly love and it can be quite challenging to just be like oh yeah i'm full without them as well like it it's it's it's yeah it's definitely easier said than done how much do you think uh the the wounds we carry from from like childhood how much do you think they actually weigh us down subconsciously do you think like they kind of just lurk in the background or do you think they can actually control us into our later life if we don't solve them it's a great question i'm not a therapist i'm not a parts work expert but i've spent the last six to eight months of my life going to those parts of myself through therapy through building a relationship with god through my coach.

48:17So I'll just speak for me and not place this or project this onto anybody else. I realized in that breakthrough that made me so emotional where I saw that little kid ask, why did you abandon me? And then I apologized and said, you're coming with me now, coming with me on the journey. Because I knew that that was my purest essence. That that came with so much emotion for me because I realized pretty much every decision I had made was run through that filter of that wound and everything came down to whether I even realized it or not you know I was having a conversation a powerful conversation with a friend who struggles with the same things I do and he said I think far too much about what people think to the degree where he said something about if I date a girl, I wonder, will my friends think she's attractive enough?

49:07And I said, why does that matter? Why does that matter? Really think about why that matters. Because something happened to him at some point that gave him that perspective on women or his friends or himself. Things happen to us, and then we let that experience dictate how we perceive our place in the world. That's a huge element of everybody, good or bad. And so for me, from my experience, so many decisions I made up until recently, and I'm not perfect, I fall short every day, but I'm more aware of it. And awareness in that competence cycle is the first step to becoming truly free. The jobs, the sports, what I did and didn't say in a room because I thought I'd be too much was run through that, will they like me?

49:51Will I be accepted? Just quick, snap of a finger. Our brain is so good at trying to keep us safe that we don't even realize it. And I've seen this a lot show up in people and their relationships, their dating lives. Like one of my favorite analogies is that relationships, specifically romantic relationships, are just a mirror. The person you are with in a romantic setting is oftentimes just a reflection of the places you are falling short or not able to soothe or regulate your own nervous system or the love you did or did not receive growing up. And that's super powerful, but it can also be incredibly painful.

50:23And some people never take radical accountability for why something fell short. and don't ever do that work, and it continues to show up. And I was a victim of that. I say I use the word victim loosely. I let myself fall victim to that in friendships, relationships, in the workplace. So I think I struggled with it in many, many, many facets of my life, and I'm just now realizing how to break free of that. It's confronting. Yes. That's the thing. It's the right word. That's why it's easy for you to fall into a victim state, because it's so much easier. like all the shit that matters about change is quite confronting right it's not it's not an easy thing it sucks yeah it's way shittier to do it this way yeah shitty now better later the other one's better now shitty later well that's the thing that's important to touch on though is it's not like being a victim's good though in fact it's the the amount in time in which you have to suffer by taking ownership is a lot shorter than the amount of time you have to suffer if you be a victim for the whole life.

51:31Think about all the feeling of lacking. You use the brilliant terminology of the mirror of feeling like everything else in the world is a problem for your whole life. Imagine just thinking that the world is against you for your whole life. And there's only one least common denominator in every situation, us. And so many people don't look at themselves and they go through their entire life saying the problem was always the thing on the other end of the table. And they never realize what the least common denominator is. And that's what I had to realize. And that's what I think everybody that goes through this has to realize.

52:12The mirror is at some point, no one's perfect. Everybody's going to get screwed over by someone else. Everybody's going to mess up. but at some point when the pattern of your life becomes that of which you never get where you want to be you have to look at the least common denominator you just have to there's no choice yeah well is it what's the is it the j cole line fool me once shame on you fool me twice put the blame on you yeah exactly like it's so true you can like we can make mistakes that's okay you can do things wrong you can end up in shitty relationships but if you end up in them again do you think that it's the other person's fault?

52:51And then you end up in it again? Do you think that these three people have the exact same problems? Or do you think you're the problem? Dude, yeah. Yeah. I have no comments. Do you think that applies the same to the people hating in your comment section and sending you messages that are projecting problems that you're doing? No, maybe I'm just an asshole and I really need to correct myself. No, I mean, again, I'm not perfect, but I do see...

53:27Peter Krohn has this great quote, life will present you with people and circumstances to reveal to you where you are not free. And I think about that a lot. Life and people will present you with circumstances to reveal where you are not free. So if I say something, I'll just make it about me, If someone says something on the internet that upsets me enough to leave a comment on their video that they didn't send to me, they don't know me from Adam. That says a lot more about me. Another thing that Peter says is so great is where you're triggered is your therapist. What bothers you the most? If I talk about, and I made a video that did not be, was not received so favorably with a certain community, the PCOS community, the polycystic ovarian syndrome community.

54:12because I said that it really is, I said it in a more comical way, but I said that calories matter and the things that you're going through, your conditions, they matter, but the rules don't change. They might just be harder to follow. I won't use the exact verbiage of the word. I don't know how X-rated the podcast is. I have some profanity in there, but - I like it. Yeah, what I said was, this is just a general reminder. The video is something to the effect of this. This is a general reminder that it's not your hormones, it's not your insulin, and it's not your condition that's keeping you overweight.

54:43It's your elbow. Every time your elbow bends, your fucking mouth opens. Those things have an impact on the rules of the game, but they do not change the rules of the game, that you need to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight. People did not like that. And so all I said was an objective truth, and I was met with a lot of animosity. And I'm not saying those people have anything wrong with them. I just operate under the assumption of if someone says something that you kind of know is inherently objectively true and it makes you upset, it's probably time to look inward and it still happens to me all the time people say things about me that i maybe don't like it's my responsibility it's not theirs so yeah i do think a lot of people project but i also think of course i have room to improve and i take constructive feedback all the time and i've been i've been challenged a lot in my dms transparently about my profanity and i'm starting to feel more convicted about it to maybe curse a little bit less and i don't obviously don't do it perfectly as this podcast shows but i'm working on i'm working on it yeah i love this mirror concept i think it's probably been one of the more profound embodiments of this year and i say embodiments because everyone kind of has heard it before but like truly embodying it and the free nature that comes with ownership and i think i think ownership never does anyone any harm if everyone took ownership there would be no division there would be no arguing ever there wouldn't ever if everyone took ownership then there wouldn't be any divide because no one would be at fault except the person projecting the hate and then you can get to the solution faster yeah well this is what i love as well and i remember someone saying to this saying me to saying this to me very clearly um and i was in a relationship and i was really embodying this like ownership piece and I was trying to just pull her up when it was being when she was being very victim minded and I don't blame her like her she's her whole upbringing was just riddled with that so I understand but I was really trying to pull her up and it was I remember it was like extremely I never tried to just tell her she was wrong I never did that but what what I did what I noticed was I kept taking ownership on things and then she would be just agree that it was all my fault and she would never look within.

57:08But something that's really powerful is, is that I found is that the language, and this comes back to the very start about communication, right? The language in which you say something is extremely important and it will either make someone feel not seen or seen and it will make someone feel understood or just disregarded. And, uh, and, and a powerful frame for this, when you don't really like the way that someone is doing you don't like the way you feel around someone it's it's it's saying to them it's going hey i just thought i'd let you know that like it's firstly it's nothing to do with you i'm working on this but i'm just gonna let you know that like what you did just then i feel pretty shit about that like i'm working on it but i just thought i'd let you know that like sorry just in advance but like i just want to let you know that i'm feeling a little bit shit from what you just did.

58:00That's good. Then what happens if they're not in a victim mind, they go, oh shit, like she didn't blame me, but I don't want her to feel shit. And like, she's working on it. So I should work on it. And then all of a sudden you start working on it. Then you realize where you both went wrong. There's no argument. You've both resolved it internally yourself. The problem doesn't occur again and so there's no whenever there's ownership there's actually no conflict we just saw modern dating right here at this table are you kidding me we're so i'm just like serious whenever wherever there's ownership i actually don't think there's conflict yeah you're exactly right if if you own if i own every victory and defeat that i'm a bystander of or a direct respondent of, then life becomes a lot easier.

58:56Own the wins, own the losses. It's very easy to own the wins, but it's very easy to point fingers at a loss. And whether it's true or not, I interviewed Chris Cavallini many months ago, the CEO of Nutrition Solutions, the meal prep company I work with. And he had a really rough upbringing, was in and out of prison. And now he's a multimillionaire with a successful business. And he truly, he talked about this in the podcast. He said, everything that happens to you is your fault. And that's not an option. It has to be your fault. Because when you take the blame and the ownership of something, you maximize your ability to control and manipulate the outcome.

59:29If you just say, well, I'm just that way, or that's just life, you relinquish yourself of the ability to change it for a better future outcome. So if I can say, that's my fault, I take the power back. And maybe it feels shitty in the moment, but that's okay. Because it's shitty now, easy later, or easy now, shitty later. Those are your only two options in this life. And so I have found that radical responsibility, or as Jocko's book is so wonderfully titled, Extreme Ownership, is literally a cheat code to life. Yeah, putting the power back in your own hands. It's like when you blame someone else, you're actually letting them dictate how you feel.

1:00:06Yeah. Because it's up to them to change. And guess what? They don't give a fuck about how you feel. So they're not going to change. Exactly. So you're going to constantly feel bad. Exactly. Oh, shit. It's so good, dude. It's so good. Yeah. I think about this a bit. What about like, and we don't need to dive into relationships, I know it's not something you make very public, but how important do you think it is for a man to go through a heartbreak?

1:00:35I think it's an inevitability of life for both men and women. I also think it's a critical component of life. If it wasn't so inevitable, it wouldn't be critical. Or I guess, rather, if it wasn't so critical, it wouldn't be inevitable. That everybody's going to go through it. it's like it's it's a way to realize where you fell short where you placed your ability to show up for yourself and another person i think it's critical man i've learned so much through breakups and there's so many things that whether the relationship was great or not there are certain things that can only be learned in in hindsight and in retrospect once you get that space.

1:01:21No matter how it ended, no matter if it was cordial, toxic, beautiful, it doesn't matter. Space, distance often creates clarity. And that's solitude, not isolation. Isolation breeds depression. Solitude that is intentional breeds clarity. And those periods of solitude where you can reflect on both parties and pull the emotion away from the situation because unexpressed emotions can really cloud our judgment in the moment. And breakups obviously build up a lot of unreleased emotion. So once you work through that, you have your cry, which every man should have a good sob now and then. I know that's less of a problem for the ladies.

1:01:57I am jealous of that. It breeds a certain clarity within us of where we can show up for ourselves for that little kid in us, the one that we're supposed to look after. And so I believe it's a non-negotiable to life. It's like a rite of passage to the next level of your life of being a man. yeah well it's it's such a low and we don't look for the problems when there's a trophy like when you're winning it's like just made a video about this dude really yeah you don't look for the truck you don't look for the fuck ups in a victory because you won but there's still things that went wrong and i think when you go through a breakup fundamentally you have failed because you didn't go into that relationship wanting it to break up so the mission actually failed.

1:02:43You fundamentally failed the mission. You didn't want that. And so because there's such a failure, there's a couple of powerful things that happen when you go through a breakup. Your solitude gets in heightened, like heightened, sorry. You are forced to be alone because you used to have that person you could lean on that knows everything about you, that, you know, shoulder to cry on in those tough times you don't have that and you're in your extreme lowest you lose your best friend you've got this like thought of the the what-ifs like you're actually not even grieving what happened you're grieving what could have happened in the future as well all the plans you had all the hopes you had for the future all of this and so you tie all of that together and you're alone it's a pretty low place to be at times ain't it and when you're in that that's where the magic happens.

1:03:41If you allow yourself to be in it and you don't, again, tying into this distraction piece, like you don't get filled with all these distractions and go out and, and get blackout drunk and hide yourself from the reality. But it's, it's a powerful thing. And as you said before about rite of passage, I just look at it and I go like to the men that have been in a relationship their whole life and I've not spent any time alone grieving, healing. Like, I'm not sure if you can, I mean, there's probably exceptions to the rule for sure, but I just look at the most life-changing moments and it is those lows.

1:04:20And so I go without them, like, how would I be where I am? I probably wouldn't. Yeah. When life is gravy, when everything is great, you're not learning. I'm not learning anything when life is hard or excuse me when life is easy rather it is in those moments that we define you know andrew huberman talked about in a podcast from a neuroscience perspective the reason breakups are so hard is that our brain perceives it like death breakups are a form of grief because there's a tie severed of someone who was there who's no longer there but at least with death there is no option they're gone right the breakup and especially with social media we still have access, sort of, right?

1:04:58They're still there. They're still in the vicinity. And so it makes the grief feeling much more complicated to work through. And so you need to understand, I think, appreciating the gravity of the emotional experience of what a breakup is rather than trying to blunt it or numb it, as you alluded to earlier, through alcohol or distractions, other relationships. It's important to be aware of, I am grieving a loss. And grief is a process, and it is not linear, but it's the scripture that I mentioned earlier. Whether you're religious or not, that verse is an incredible lesson for life. I'll just say it.

1:05:32Count it all joy, my brothers, when you face trials of many kinds, because the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance run its course so that you may be complete and lacking nothing. My favorite part, complete and lacking nothing. That breakup teaches you something about yourself. It teaches you what you maybe want to look for in the next partner and that you had in the other person or that you didn't have. It teaches you the ways that you weren't showing up for yourself. It is such a powerful experience. And so we should count it all joy because ultimately that breakup you went through, I've heard you talk about it on the show a few times that it was so defining and it was such a low moment for you.

1:06:10But now you're this overjoyed human being that's full of passion, full of conviction. But that experience is very much a part of you. It's a part of all of us. And so it's important to find joy and every hardship, just like we talked about at the beginning of the show, man. It really is a beautiful gift to go through heartbreak, to be someone that is lucky enough to love another person and to be loved by another person to the point where it hurts when they're not there. That is a gift. That's not a struggle. But a struggle can be a gift. In fact, it is. It's the greatest gift. I was interviewing Andy Elliott last week or a few days ago, and he was talking about how pain is the greatest gift you can be given.

1:06:56And when you think about that, people think you're kind of sick in the head. But I actually don't think so because it truly is. People want this easy life, but they don't want to pay the price it takes to have an easy life. But I don't think easy life should be the goal. But what I can say for certain is the more pain you go through, the easier it becomes because you're phased less. This is why you look at like the, the most scariest men in the world, the people that have been in prison, the military men, they're the calmest, kindest people you've ever met. And no pain. They've just been through so much shit.

1:07:37Yeah, dude. Like, and so when you see that, it's like, it's actually a common denominator. if you see all these people how calm they are they may look scary but they're just a big old teddy bear yeah and i just think it comes down to the pain um yeah do you think that the start of this year was was one of the most challenging times of your life it was the hardest time of my life there's no doubt were you expecting it or did it hit you by surprise

1:08:10it took me a long time to accept that he wasn't getting better you know we were sitting on the couch one night it was like this thing we avoided that we got around as a family i remember me and my mom and my dad were sitting in the living room mom was sitting on the coffee table i was sitting in the chair dad's on the couch right here we're kind of like this in a triangle and I was like guys we got it I was taking the Joe Dispenza approach and we got to have a positive attitude thoughts become things all of that stuff and it's powerful but you know I was like dad we got to stay on top of the diet we got to keep you exercising counteract against what we thought he had at the time which was liver failure it turns out it wasn't and we battled and he fought and he was so stoic and so calm throughout all of it but then there was this moment this thing the elephant in the room we hadn't dressed and it was the moment that broke me where he said he used to call me Bubby he looked over he was like Bubby I think it's just time we face it I said face what he said I'm dying that's it I'm dying I'm not getting out of this and he died 60 days later I was the one who went into the office where his hospice bed was set up and opened his eyes and shined a light in him and took his pulse and there was nothing

1:09:28is the most powerful experience I've ever been a part of. And I'm so grateful that God placed me back home to live with my parents, to be his caretaker. You know, there's nowhere else I would have rather been. Nowhere. I can't imagine if I would have moved to Tampa like I thought I was going to and had to make my mom go through everything she went through alone, the late nights with him doing all the things that I pray that no son or daughter has to do for their parent. But I never would have wanted it to be some nurse or anybody else. And so I learned so much about what I'm capable of and how I can still show up for myself.

1:10:04You know, I was prepping for high rocks during all of that. And those workouts are grueling and you kind of need to lock in. And most days just getting out of bed was a battle, man. I was depressed. But that's where I found a strongly rooted belief in God because I looked at all the things that had to happen in the order that they did to put me back in my childhood home with my dad for the last six months of my life, or his life rather. And I remember after we got off a virtual appointment with a teledoc, he looked back and he was walking out of the office and he said, I know you're here for a shitty reason, but I think you're here for a bigger reason too.

1:10:38And it was to be there for them, to be there for him. And yeah, it was the hardest thing I have ever been through, but I am so thankful for it, man. I would have much rather had a father that losing him created that much pain than to just say, well, dad passed away today because I had a lukewarm relationship with him. I'm the luckiest guy on earth. It's a gift to have that relationship I did with my father. So yeah, it's the hardest thing I've ever been through, but like I said earlier, it will forever impact and influence the way that I treat people, and it will always be for the better. Only human, I'll fall short, but like we talked about at that Bible study yesterday, it's important to love those who hate you.

1:11:17And my dad did that. He really did. And so hardest time of my life, yeah. Most enlightening and teaching, heavy, intensive time of my life, definitely. What was so enlightening and teaching about it? What was the thing when you were sitting there and you realized it was time and he passed? What was like the things going on in your mind and the motivators and the drivers to apply into your life?

1:11:51earlier I said confidence is evidence-based we all know the Hormozy quote you've heard it I've heard it you don't become confident by shouting affirmations in the mirror but by having a stack of undeniable proof that you are who you say you are outwork yourself doubt through all those months of doctor's appointments falls bathing him feeding him all the things I had to do as he got less independent I still never missed a training session I still ate the way I was supposed to eat I did the things I wanted I needed to do whether I wanted to or not and I never Wanted to do them ever the day we Found out my dad was diagnosed with liver failure what we thought he was dying from I remember I went to the track and hit a workout because I was on a prep for something at the time and it was the best Workout i've had in weeks I remember thinking wasn't about the workout was the massive the massive pr was cool It was the fact that I got out there after being in tears because I found out my dad might not be here for much longer and I outperformed an expectation I would have had if I was otherwise happy.

1:12:53And so I learned through day in and day out of showing up for myself that if I can show up for myself through that, there's not a lot that can pull me off my course. And the other thing was just the way that he showed up. I was talking about this with my friend who came into town to be on my show, Caleb McCoy, who just ran across America.

1:13:12We were talking about How my dad was so stoic Throughout all of this. I never saw him cry. I never saw him raise his voice But he was in so much pain for six months It's the most autonomous guy i'd ever met Traveling sales rep golf three times a week always gone Always came home with the people he cared about never missed a sporting event, but always on the road And he lost every piece of his identity that he held near there was no golf. There was no travel There was no work. He was housebound for six months. Imagine being stuck in this house, not being able to leave for six months. It was a prison.

1:13:48And he would often say, I feel like I'm a prisoner in my own home in my own mind. But he stayed calm. He cracked jokes, kept everybody laughing. I don't know if that was a repression of what he was really going through, but I developed so much admiration and so much understanding of what's possible inside of your head, like what you can really do when shit hits the fan. He used to say to me growing up, you need to be the person that keeps your cool when everybody is losing theirs. And he was that guy right up until his last breath the night before he died. He cracked a joke to my best friend, a joke they had running for a decade.

1:14:25It's not important what it was, but it was a banter they had since we were kids. And he came in to say goodbye to my dad 12 hours before he died and he cracked that same joke. He's barely strong enough to speak. Never lost it. And I think that that's such a beautiful way to live, man. Like that's how you know when you strip everything away, you find out who somebody really is. My dad had everything stripped from him and he never changed. And if I'm half that, I'll be happy.

1:14:52How's it make you feel feeling about that? Enjoyed. You know, I'm a little misty-eyed, of course, because it's not grief. that I feel. It's not sadness that I feel. It's gratitude. It's joy. It is. And there's some sadness mixed in there in the way that I, and I wish he could be here to see what we're doing right now. You know, I'd call him, I'd introduce him to you. He'd think he'd come up with some nickname for you involving your lineage, where you came from. He did that for everybody. You know, he called my military friend, commander, called my skinny friend, Styx, called my lawyer friend counselor he had he had names for everybody and uh and just i you know he was the guy i called with every milestone he saw me at a million followers that was huge that happened right before he passed um so it's just it's a matter of you know i wish he could be here but he is but it's it's just it's a happiness with a little bit of longing man it really is because i feel like i'm the luckiest guy on earth to have had a relationship with him like that are people surprised at how you have dealt with this?

1:15:58It's really funny you ask that.

1:16:04I'm not going to speak for anybody. I don't know what a lot of people think about how I handle it. I'm proud of how I showed up for my mom and my dad. I think I did the best I could. I had hard days. I let myself feel the emotions. I surrendered to the tears that I needed to come, to the presence when I needed to be there. But something my best friend Will said to me on a night one night, we had had a few too many drinks. We were sitting on my balcony just talking and he said, I've developed a lot more, he already respected each other because we're best friends. He's like, I developed such an extreme respect for you because you handled what happened almost too well.

1:16:40And I thought that was an interesting way to word it. He said it and it was in regards to the way I got up the day of my dad's funeral and gave a eulogy, his eulogy, in front of 300 people. And I included a story that he and I shared on an experience we had out traveling about the best compliment someone could pay your father. And I don't think I would have been able to do that if it wasn't for a relationship with God and knowing how my dad would have wanted me to show up in that moment. I asked my dad, how am I going to give your eulogy? And he gave me the advice. He said, feel what you need to feel but when the time comes you'll be able to have the peace because you would know how I'd want you to show up for that moment and I think I did so do I know how everybody feels about the way I handled it no but I know that I did my best and I can hang my hat on that yeah I just see I couldn't comprehend it dad will be listening my dad will be listening to this right now and I can't comprehend what that moment's going to be like and just to hear that and what you've gone through and how you dealt with it and you were so proactive with everything like the podcast set up and all the thing and I just kind of look at it and it was so logical and it was so calm and obviously you had your hard days but to see how you are and like how you're showing up, even though all of that happened, how you're explaining it in a calm manner.

1:18:14It's pretty inspiring to hear. Was there any key lessons when you were doing those podcasts where you were asking future questions and he answered in certain ways? Was there things that you will never forget that he said in those moments that you've now applied and you want to be reminded of when you're going through hard times or when you're going through really life-changing moments?

1:18:39You know, I asked him the question in one of those podcasts, what's something you never want me to forget? And he waited three to four seconds like he always does. And he just looked at me and he said, you know, you know, didn't give me any advice because he had been instilling into me every single day the things he wanted me to take with me when he left the earth. I told you earlier every day and i'm not exaggerating chris every day He dropped me off at school from kindergarten to 10th grade when I got my license Except for the days I rode the bus with the boys, of course He said have a good day Be a good person and be the kind of friend a friend want to have Every sunset we shared he'd say take a step back.

1:19:25Look up look around. Don't forget Take a deep breath Another day gone. There are no dress rehearsals Can't get it back some variation of that sentence always. All of those things are just tattooed in my head. Everybody knows something you don't. It's another thing he'd always say to me. There are these four to six phrases that my dad almost in a Pavlovian style conditioned me to view the world through. And so when it came to that question, he didn't have to come up with anything. He had been preparing me for that day for as long as I could remember. And I'm so blessed. to have that, that he doesn't, he didn't have anything he needed to teach me.

1:20:07And while I was yearning for something in the moment, I wanted him to be divinely inspired to tell me something. He was right. There's nothing he could have said to me in that moment that was better than any of the lessons he taught me when he was healthy and vibrant. And I was a kid. And I think about him every day in that, in that capacity. You know, I always, every sunset, I'm, I think he'd really like that my balconies in my apartment face due east and due west one in upstairs one downstairs so i catch every sunrise and every sunset these are always super important to them to him he would say no two are alike they're all different catch every single one you can because you're getting less and less of them every day there's nothing he said man it's just he lived it and i watched and i'm lucky it's so cool do you think that the progression you've made navigating all of this and the progression in your career over the last seven months or however long it's been would you say that like there was this new profound drive that you had and it's helped shape all of the growth that you've had over the last little bit from all of that experience and stuff you went through at the start of the year or do you think it was kind of before all of that happened you already had this drive because you knew it was coming and like do you think that shaped your drive for this year and obviously you've just your whole life has just changed over the last couple of years and especially this year things have just taken off to the next level like do you think that plays a big role or do you think it was just coincidence with timing this is really if it wasn't solidified already that i have his phrases and aphorisms tattooed in my head this is going to solidify it when this thing started to take off he from the beginning i remember he referenced this at every follower milestone, 100K, 500K, 900K, a million.

1:21:53He would say the same thing. He would say, I remember when you called me, my dad was a track salesman. So he sold running tracks. It's perfect because he ran track at Georgia. So like he was married to his passion. And he was out on a job at Florida Atlantic University. And he's, every time I hit a follower milestone or I have something cool happen on social media, because he thought this career I had was the craziest thing ever. He was like, I get it, but it doesn't make sense also. So he would say the same story every time I told him, he'd say, I remember when I was sitting in the parking lot at Florida Atlantic and you called me and you said, dad, I have a hundred followers.

1:22:25Can you believe a hundred people care what I have to say? And he would say, never forget that. Because the conversation we had that day was, if you help just one person in your day, that is so much more than anybody else will do with them, than many people will do with their day. And so the only thing that happened when he passed was the importance of understanding that if a video I put out flops per se, flops, but it helps one person, it's worth it. And that's where I think a lot of this growth comes from is I have the one in mind. I just wanna help one person, but it turns out a lot of people need help.

1:23:04And so all it did was ignite that conviction in me to just help one person a whole lot deeper. Because when he's not here to remind me, I've gotta carry that torch myself. and so that's what i will always carry into this no matter how big any of it gets it will always be about just helping one person before i go to bed every day and i think that's the nature of why it works because we're not that different yeah we're not that different i think that's a good reminder in itself it's just like the the fact that like we all go through very similar of shit we all go through the same problems this is what i was saying you before on the walk i was just going like dude you'd be surprised at how many people are going through the exact same shit that we're going through you'd be surprised at how many men have had their heart broken and we seem to shield all of the pain like it's a unique experience it's like dude are you that self-centered that you think that your experience is unique come on man please exactly serious Exactly.

1:24:08Even the Bible says there's nothing, nothing new happens under the sun. It is just new people doing it. It's been the case in all of human history. We're not special. And that's like, that's where I think, you know, like what comes up when you say that is vulnerability is a superpower. Part of the reason I think the growth has occurred is because I've showed the internet parts of my life that are vulnerable, that are uncomfortable. And that's where the most powerful feedback comes from. You know, my most popular podcast episode, I let Peter Crone sort of coach me through the death of my father.

1:24:43That's uncomfortable to do on camera with a guy I met an hour prior. It's definitely not comfortable to know that 500 ,000 people saw it, but the feedback, man, people need that. It's like we were talking about earlier. People are yearning for human connection. In a world where we are more connected than we have ever been, people have never felt more alone. And so I think my cross to bear, if you will, that God has placed on me is like, you need to show the parts of yourself that might be uncomfortable and the cave that you most fear to enter holds the treasure that you seek. And so when I air out more of my personal life, more things that make me uncomfortable, I seem to get more growth because people feel more related to.

1:25:25So yeah, that's it. There are no unique struggles. And like you just said, it's almost arrogant for people to hold their struggles close to the cuff. You are depriving yourself of the gift of healing and others, the gift of empathy and relation. Yeah. I also think that there's this comparison thing that happens on social media and we seem to compare our life to someone's highlight reel. Really? You don't really, you think that happens? Yeah. I would say, I would say that it's a massive problem, but I would say if we go back to ownership, it's the creator's fold. Yeah. Because we're the one feeling the need to make it a highlight reel when you don't have to.

1:26:06Mic drop. Bravo. Like I was catching myself. I did this story last night. I'm not sure if you saw it, you probably didn't. I did the story last night explaining how amazing this podcast tour looks. And no one sees how long we spent packing and setting up this whole thing. no one seems to see the bags that i carried when i was remember when i called you yeah you were in the desert i was in the desert so i called you in fact we're like ages into this podcast i'm going to read you a journal input i wrote on the plane last night this is vulnerable but i'm going to do it um let's go i'm going to read a journal input that i wrote on the plane here yesterday journal input flight from phoenix to atlanta 7th of august see and I'll read this in a second, but I didn't just screenshot this and post it on my page.

1:27:02And I'm pulling myself up on that. I'm wondering if this is valuable to post. And I think it is. And the reason for it is because what it does is it creates more of an understanding on what my life is, not just the highlight reel. So no one ever will pedestal me because if someone's pedestalling me, yeah, it's a problem with their mind, but it's my fault for only showing good. And I don't think pedestalling serves anyone. We pedestal money, it becomes harder to get. We pedestal people, we struggle to get to where they are because we think that they're above us and it's hard to get. Creators seem to show a highlight reel and by virtue of doing that, they actually make themselves out of reach and then they wonder why they feel isolated and alone.

1:27:48yeah but let me read this i don't i didn't think i was ever going to read this but we're going to let's go fuck it i don't really know what to say i feel an insane level of pressure i don't have a fucking clue what i'm doing i'm burning cash like incense in bali i'm alone trying slowly winning but getting humbled i'll say this is the dream but it isn't it fucking sucks ass i'm thoroughly not enjoying this tour. It's crazy how cool it looks, how much it seems like I'm killing it. It's fucked. I was chopping a hire car off in the middle of the desert, having to carry five heavy bags filled with podcast equipment across a gravel road in 47 degrees Celsius heat.

1:28:28Where I was, where was I carrying them to, may you ask? Well, to an Uber that ended up leaving me because I was taking too long. So I waited for another one, drenched in sweat, to take me back to a hotel room so I could reach out to some people to try and organize what my next move is. Yes, I was in a random city with no idea where I was going next, alone. But it's labeled as a podcast tour, and while that statement is true, the podcast recording is the smallest and easiest part of it all. This is just one example of something you can never plan for until it happens. As I'm writing this, I'm on an Economy Southwest flight sitting in the middle seat, squished next to two people that don't look after their health.

1:29:09I'm tired because I've been red lining for so long. And if I'm being completely frank, I'm over it. I'm so sick of doing this, especially seeing I don't have to. I'm making more money than I ever have. I could easily settle down, which is exactly why I must keep going. You see, this is where most people will quit. And to be honest, I don't blame them. But not me. I'm not quitting. Just know that when I achieve all the things that I set out to achieve, don't call me lucky. I don't believe in luck. What you put out, you get back. I'm giving my absolute all to my mission and my life so I can leave a legacy and set up my family for life.

1:29:44And the best part is, it's all in service of others. The people I get to impact is the main focus. It's what lights me up more than anything else. If you're in the trenches right now, good. Pressure builds diamonds. This is where most people quit. Your ability to beat the pain, have the courage to take steps in the dark and not give a fuck about what people, about the people doubting you will be the determining factor on whether you succeed or not succeed. Don't do it for them. Do it for you and your family. It will all be worth it. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. I didn't feel to read that on a podcast that quite a lot of people are going to see.

1:30:21Yeah. Well, I mean, like it's a comparison point that I think is important for people to understand because like yes i am quote-unquote crushing it but it's just not smooth sailing and as i was saying before we were recording as i was laughing setting up this stupid equipment that's like fifty thousand dollars in suitcases and and i wish we could i wish we time-lapsed what it was like to set you talk about not being a highlight reel the setup of this was like so much trial and error moving shit around like that's the stuff that the follower doesn't see in the carousel post. Yeah, and I want things to be good.

1:31:00Yeah. Clearly. And they are. And I think it's just this approach and this thing in my life where I constantly keep setting goals and going on a quest, not knowing how hard the quest is going to take. And a lot of people do this, but then when they realize how hard it is, they quit. and there's something in me that when I set something I set it as an expectation so then when no matter how challenging and how painful it is to do it I just do it and it sucks at times but in no world have I ever made it to the light at the other side of the tunnel and regretted walking through the tunnel never I've never gone through a challenge made it out the other side and regretted the challenge because what's the point it's not about the destination it's not about the journey it's actually about who we build on the way and as we said earlier you don't even look for where to grow when you're winning so if it's about the character we build on the way the only way to build the character is mainly to go through shit because it's the only time you're forced to look within.

1:32:11So when I read that stuff, what I think is, as I said, good. Pressure builds diamonds. I want diamonds. I want to be a diamond. And so for that, I invited all fucking in. So let's fucking go. Dude, if no one's told you recently, I'm incredibly proud of you and I'm incredibly impressed by you. And I mean that. You deserve to hear that. And I know how hard it can be to really be proud of yourself in this world. And I don't know where you land with that, but that's something that I've struggled with for a lot of my life is to truly be proud of myself and celebrate the milestones. And I've seen how much you care and how much effort you put into this and amidst it all, how kind and genuine of a person you are.

1:32:56And I'm just incredibly proud of you, man. I'm proud of your effort, your work. I'm proud to know you. I'm proud that we got connected, dude. I think you're really special. I think what you're doing is special and I know it sucks I know it sucks at times, but It will of course as you know through your past proof be worth it And it's important that you shared that for you For people listening because a lot of people look at chris griffin and they think he's got it all together He lives the dream life. He knows no struggle But in reality a lot of what you do is very very difficult and it is a struggle and so I just want you to know I am proud of you dude and I really hope you're proud of yourself because you deserve to be and you should be I appreciate it dude thank you I can mean it really means a lot and you know I just I just think that like it's good like the challenge is good yeah like it's it sucks and you're like for the first time ever I've actually probably it's been probably the first time I've questioned things I'm going like why do I keep putting myself in shit when I'm doing better than I ever I don't need to do this and i just remind myself that like it's actually really fucking good like like that pressure is a privilege thing like it it really is and um i'm just grateful that i have the courage enough to do it i'm not afraid of losing things it's like when you've been in so much debt you don't really care about going to zero because you were past zero baby i was like i made it out of that and i know so much more now take my accounts to zero i was negative 25k it's like it's like dude there'll be a level of freedom in that man like i'll be worse yeah what a gift it would be to be stripped of everything yeah to have to build it all again and when you have that frame you can go through shit easier you can take risks easier and you can chase your dreams easier because no matter the hurdle you're not worried about it all crumbling down because you know that even if it did get crumbled down you'd be calm in that chaos so i just want to commend you as well just before we wrap up, I just, I just think seeing like, and you know, in preparation for this podcast, I listened to a fair bit of you, um, which isn't, it's actually quite a great thing getting to listen to you.

1:35:04I think I don't listen to many podcasts. As I said, I listened to myself a lot and I love being able to listen to people that are really fucking cool. And, you know, I listened, I actually have listened to it twice because I listened to it when you posted it, the podcast announcing your father's death and you know like that's a it's a very very touchy subject it's a very vulnerable subject and the way you delivered that it with such grace and like so calm and so just like the way you communicated through such a challenging time like unwavering and like you know I look at people and it's a lot easy to it's it's very easy to judge people based on like their highs and how they show up then but when they show up in their lows and how they show up there like you said when your dad moments before he passes how he's still cracking jokes the way you showed up in that podcast says a lot about your character and I think the way you've showed up throughout this whole conversation over long we've been going through all those tough conversations and tough topics.

1:36:12You've just, you're a trooper dude. And I think like, as I said at the gym, like you can build the biggest thing in the world. And I'm very confident with it. And I've got you back and I just want to commend you for everything that you're doing. And I'm here to support wherever I can. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. Thank you so much, bro. Dude, you're the man. That was great. Let's go. Let's go. Signing out. I'm going to ask you guys, we're like, however long into this podcast, if you've made it to the end and you enjoyed this, please leave us a five-star review on Spotify, Apple. It really helps the show grow and it helps us keep getting awesome people like Michael back on the show and screenshot this and tag us in your Instagram stories.

1:36:49I'll leave Michael's deets in the show notes so you guys can check that out and tag us just to let us know you made it to the end of this long conversation so we can personally thank you, but we're going to sign out for this week, but I'll see you guys very, very soon. Bye-bye. Adios.

1:37:06I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX is the bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either going to be okay. Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned. We have each other. FX is the bear. The final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney+.