#90: “I Could Die, And That’s What Drives Me…” (Ash Dykes)

27:04So I was like, whoa, okay. That's when I started to take thinking, if I achieve this, that's a recorded world first. That's like a gold medal. Could there potentially be a career out of doing what I love doing. And that's when the sort of it initiated for me as a potential career. You can't train for that. You're like, oh, maybe with the right training and preparation. Yeah. Training and preparation. Yeah. What are you going to do? You can't just replicate Mongolia anywhere else in the West specifically. No, you really can't. So how did you prepare for that? I sold my scuba diving kit, had enough money for a flight back home to Wales, moved in with my parents with£200 in my account, couldn't afford any gym membership.

27:58My uncle was a truck driver and he comes across like farmers all the time. And I asked him to pick me up a tractor tire and a sledgehammer. And he did. and in my back garden of my parents' place, training for a world record, I did all of the groundwork in the backyard, flipping the tractor tire, beating it with a sledgehammer, calisthenics. But what I realized, but I didn't really know at the time, I found that out in Mongolia. Everyone was saying, yeah, you're training physically, but how are you mentally preparing? And my answer was, there's no way to mentally prepare. I learned that actually, I was in fact mentally preparing that entire time, but didn't realize that until I was at the toughest point.

28:37during the Mongolia journey. And what I was doing is I was putting 100 % doubt and fear into my mindset. I was saying, there's going to be wolves in Mongolia, so expect to be attacked. There's going to be snow blizzards and sandstorms. Expect to face the biggest and the baddest, not because I wanted to face the worst, because of course I didn't. But if I was expecting and visualizing worst case scenario and worst case was unfortunately bound to happen, then at least I'd somewhat be prepared. I think a lot of people, when you scare someone, if they know you're coming, you don't get them, right?

29:15You don't get that shock. But if they don't see you coming, they panic. There's that fight or flight moment. And so for me, it was about eradicating that flight and maintaining 100 % fight so that when and if anything bad happened in Mongolia, I expected it. I now must just tackle it. And I didn't know if it was a thing. I genuinely didn't know, But everything that happened in Mongolia, I was just plowing through. And these were big ordeals, you know, until I faced the heat stroke in the Gobi Desert, which we'll get onto. But yeah, I would say it was 70 % mindset. And whilst a lot of athletes visualize the ending, holding the flag, you know, picking up their gold medal, I think with me, I flip that.

29:56I visualize the worst case scenario. I visualize the rejection. I visualize the pain. I visualize the setbacks. And I think ultimately that really helps to get to that final goal that you're trying to get to. How do you keep going in the training camp in the backyard? How do you keep going when you're visualizing the worst case scenarios? Because surely what flows downstream of visualizing those worst case scenarios is I well and truly could die here. I might not make it out. And so then what stems downstream from that is you're going to be thinking about all the people you're going to let down and, and leaving all the people that love you and not being able to live out the rest of your life.

30:38And all of these thoughts would be coming in off the back of thinking about a tiger attacking you. So when you're in those moments, what's keeping you going? Exactly that. Exactly what you just said. You don't want to let your family down. You don't want to die out there. You don't want to fall short of these great challenges that you know are going to happen. If I don't put the training in now, I risk a far higher chance of losing my life in the Gobi Desert than if I put this training in. So it was that discipline through fear is what I would say. But you can't really train for a fight with a tiger.

31:17You can't. But if you're destined to fight the tiger, would you not be training anyway? And at that point, I had announced it. I told everyone. And so there's probably a little bit of, you know, saving face, not wanting to say, you know, I'm too scared or blaming it on a logistical error. There was the option to blame it on a visa not being approved, you know, but at that point, I just couldn't picture, oh, you know, tap on the back. You tried your best. And I analyzed, I remember coming back and there were everyone, there wasn't one apart from, you know, your parents, your family, you know, my nan who was like, I know you'll do it, but she has no idea with what I'm actually going to face.

32:04You know, so those people have got your back. But everyone who knew, every expert, every athlete, every Mongol nomad who was saying it's impossible and thrown out all of the reasons why I won't make it and all the different ways that I might die, ended up with me going to the Royal Geographic Society with my logistical agent and looking for the best possible maps. And what I did is I had this, so it was a 1 ,500 mile journey across Mongolia. It would anticipate, we're anticipating around 100 days to complete it. I went and looked at these maps. And what I did is I broke this, anticipated to take 100 days down into little days.

32:40And I actively searched for this impossible day that everyone kept bringing up. Where is the impossible day? Let me break down. Let me look at the water sources. Let me look at different communities. Let me look at the mountains. Let's analyze the weather. Let's analyze the wildlife. Which one of these possible days is the day that breaks me or that might kill me. And once we really broke it down into the little days, we realized every day was possible. It's just easier for people mentally to say, no, it can't be done rather than spend so much time and effort finding the right maps, looking into every single day, breaking down this mammoth task and realizing, no, it can be done much bigger and greater things have been achieved.

33:20So this can be achieved. And that's why I ended up doing just because I was so scared. I was very fearful. I had nightmares. And there's no lying, this guy who previously attempted three times, he was much bigger and better, far more superior and experienced in every possible way. And I couldn't ignore that. And I remember on an email, because I asked him for the dangers and he said, you need to look out for the drunken nomadic drifters, the gray wolves, the stagnant water, the steep ravines, the dry wells, the snow blizzards, the sandstorms, and the list went on and on and on. And at the end of that email thread, he said, just remember,

33:58incredible is the ability to continue no matter what and i had no idea what he meant that taunted me through my training so i'm training my parents by god in the snow in the winter incredible is the ability to continue no matter what you know what does he mean is that him saying it's not possible is that him telling me to dig deep look internal what what does that mean never knew i actually helped potentially save my life in the gobi desert. I should thank him for that. But yeah, all of this was at play. A lot of fear. And I know that there was a lot of doubt because I'd never faced the Gobi desert.

34:32I always say fear comes as a package deal, right? It comes with doubt. Fear is healthy. It keeps you alive, but doubt is there because you're so inexperienced. The only way to eradicate doubt is through repetition, building up the evidence. And eventually, you know, like with snake handlers, the only reason you see them with a snake and you're like, oh, you can't watch them handle it. But they've done this time and time and time again, they've studied the game. They know exactly what they're doing. Yes, accidents do happen, but they don't have the doubt anymore. Probably have the fear of what could go wrong, but they know how to avoid it.

35:02And that's the difference. Get rid of that doubt. Keep the fear there. That's fine. Yeah. What I'm seeing here as well, though, is the more experienced you become, the safer it becomes because the more you're equipped to deal with whatever faces, whatever you get faced with yeah so you when you started out on the bike and you come across dogs chasing you that's probably the same amount of fear that you have in that moment than you would have with something far greater in the Mongolian desert yeah right and so uh because of that and the nature of that you can you're more prepared for more extreme things and so it's like a a baby that's just learned to walk is at more danger walking on a little ledge that's got a cliff on each side than a person that's done it a thousand times.

35:52Exactly. Same as what you're doing. You mentioned that quote that the guy who attempted it three times said to you might have saved you. How so? Yeah. So there was a point in the Gobi Desert. So I was slowly dehydrating myself in the Altai Mountains, not meaning to, it was just minus 15, minus 20. Wasn't taking as much water. and then almost drastically I entered the Gobi Desert and it was 40 plus degrees Celsius. The terrain was a mix of gravel and soft sand, which meant the trailer, which was on wheels, was now sinking into the soft sand. Weeks went by and eventually I was slowly slipping into heat exhaustion onto heat stroke, which is usually fatal.

36:31You were in the desert for weeks? Five weeks altogether in the Gobi Desert with three weeks on the latter end of that in Mongolia, in the Mongolian steppe and then three weeks prior over the Altai mountains. So you were in elevation just prior to that? Yeah. How much elevation? Probably around 3 ,500 meters, I believe. 3 ,500 meters of elevation. And it was negative 15 degrees, did you say? Negative 15, 20 Celsius. And then you progressed into the desert at 40 degrees Celsius. 40 plus, yeah. Okay. And so talk to me about why that quote saved you. So as I was walking through the desert, the distances were becoming bigger between wells.

37:14Wells is what I was relying on. There's almost little animal tracks that you can follow and these connect different water points. But we had downloaded Russian maps previously that can analyze sort of confirmed and unconfirmed water points. So there was a certain amount of confirmed and unconfirmed water sources. And my water consumption was a lot greater now. So I was drinking a lot more water because I'm already dehydrated from the Altai mountains. and now dehydrated in the Gobi Desert because of that. And so I was going through my water rapidly. Eventually we came across a well, and this well was dry, and I had the last remaining dribbles of water left.

37:53So that was almost like the crucifix. And from this point, the start of my worst, I was delirious. I was hallucinating. I could almost feel my organs drying up. That's how much I was desperate on this water source, having water. But yet from this point, I now had four days to walk to the next confirmed water source. So I knew there was water at the next point. However, at that point, as I say, there was no insurance. There was no helicopter evacuation like the previous guy. There was overland evacuation, but I would need to rely on six days for him to get to me and get me to safety. And at that point, I didn't believe I I could survive six days.

38:37And so I carried on walking and I've always been a big believer of, you know, visualization, the law of attraction, but I'd never experienced this agony before. It's hard to be positive and visualize when your body's slowly collapsing on you. So what I found I ended up doing is hiding underneath my trailer on the desert floor. That was the only means to escape the sun. And yet that was only the top half of my body. the bottom half was melting. No natural shade, no breeze, no shelter whatsoever, just underneath the trailer. And whilst I couldn't visualize four days, I could visualize 100 meters, you know, I could see 100 meters in front of me.

39:14So I focused on walking 100 meters and then spending no more than five minutes underneath the trailer. And by breaking the goals down like that, it was very painful. The days went by and I was making it closer and closer. And I remember to such a point that there was no experience or role model or something to draw inspiration from at that point. My head was scrambled. I did go from thinking about my family, thinking of how much I fucked up here and I could just die. I'd be a corpse in the desert. And my only option was to keep getting up and pushing on. I just didn't know how because the agony of the body closing in on you.

39:52I remembered his quote, incredible is the ability to continue no matter what. And I kept analyzing that on the desert floor underneath my trailer, trying to think what did he mean? He was in this position where he called for that helicopter rescue. I don't have that. What would he have done differently? And what does he mean? Incredible is the ability to continue. And because my head was so scrambled and I was hallucinating, I almost personified incredible. I was hallucinating. I could see this thing in front. I've since learned that it's a a phenomenon scientist called third man syndrome, that when you're on the brink of survival, when you're facing such a near death, your mind does stuff to try to latch onto something.

40:35It creates stuff to help you through this survival situation that it's never experienced before. But with that in mind, there was this thing in front of me and it was being routined five minutes under the trailer, kept getting up, it kept pushing on. It was outsmarting me. It was walking quicker. It was taking less rests. And I almost tried to follow in the footsteps of this thing my mind created. And I was replicating. I was doing it. I was doing 100 meters. I was getting there. A day went by. Two days went by. I was like, I'm halfway. I get to that water source. I had the last remaining dribbles of water, which was now hot water.

41:09But I was rationing it. I was doing everything that I needed to do. And eventually, I did make it to the next water source. You know, my urine at that point was pretty dark because I was urinating dead blood cells. I was in an awful way. I had to take seven to eight days out before I could push on. But something happened out in that desert. You know, my mind did something, latched onto something. I can't think of any logical answer other than potentially what scientists call third man syndrome. Others would say guardians. I'm not really religious or spiritual in that degree. But crazy. So what was your mind like there?

41:53I really want to go to that moment. And like, can you picture, can you go back to there and picture how you were feeling back then? Can you recall anything from back in that point? Yeah, I just remember feeling that I wasn't necessarily alone. Felt that there was someone there, something else there. I felt, like I said, my insides really needed to be lubricated in a way. They felt dry. I was struggling. My breathing felt dry. I just remember feeling that the trailer felt like 500 kilograms. It almost felt like pulling a concrete block through hell. It's probably the best way to describe it. And I needed the trailer.

42:36It was my life capsule. Without it, I'd be dead. but also knowing that I only have this one option I can either stop rest and I will be a corpse and I don't know who will come across me maybe a local nomad on horseback or you know I don't know but I just know that they would just come across me and the tracking device would still be pinging my location so maybe it would be my logistics manager eventually but that only option in time was like nah, I've trained for this. I prepared for this. I knew this moment might happen. It's not like I was unaware. Oh, I didn't know I would get heat shot. I knew I signed up to this.

43:15This was voluntary. And I also had a voice memo that I recorded and I told myself I would never listen to it unless I really needed to in the Gobi Desert. I prerecorded it when I was at home under shelter, living at my parents, full belly, cup of tea in hand, warm, dry, comfortable. And I gave myself a stern talking to, it was about five minutes, And I think what I was saying is the pros and cons of not making this. It was a case of if you don't keep getting up and pushing on, this is what you've got to come back to. You'll be working in a fish and chip shop in North Wales. You won't progress onto anything.

43:49It's a really hard story talking to you. I probably won't need to listen to that. but um you know how people draw on inspirational videos on youtube or something like of course there was no internet nothing like that out there it was just my positive self talking to my now nearly dying self uh and i listened to it once and i think that is a method that not a lot of people do but when you're so excited and passionate about pursuing something capture it because along the journey you'll forget why you even started and then you saw the well and then I saw it was a community so it was a community in the far distance confirmed water source and I mean I just rocked up I must have I must have looked awful to them you know um and I just remember yeah collapsing and they were like bringing water from the well um and yeah I just I stayed there then for eight days just drinking water before pushing on so when you were pushing on and you were like, okay, seven days, it's time to embark again.

44:55Did you fear that you were going to get put in the exact same spot again and have to go through that exact same shit again? Or did you have a bit more of a clearer path? No, I was shit scared a hundred percent. Cause I was like, it could get hotter, but I think I had learned my mistake. I think I was rushing. It was a world first, you know, it's not a speed record. No one's done it before. So I I just needed to take my time and get the job done. It doesn't matter how fast I do it. But I didn't learn that until that scenario, unfortunately. So with this next one, whilst I was still scared, I was about 99%.

45:30I still had this weird head phenomenon where it was almost like a headache and I would be out in the sun and it just, you know, it would be intimidating. I almost had this new healthy respect and fear towards the sun. I remember thinking like, oh God, that can really take you. And it's a horrible feeling. In a hypothermia, it kind of takes you where it numbs you. And most victims have been found unclothed where they've taken their hats and scarves off, where they feel comfortable, they feel warm, they'll just sleep. And then that's it. They won't wake up. Not in the desert. You feel everything.

46:04You just crawl for that every inch to get closer to that water source. You feel all the pain. And I didn't want to go through that again. And I knew if I take my time, top up on the water. I've got it in the bag. I'm surely past the hardest point now. And then I started entering the Mongolian steppe, those more water, cooler climate. And then eventually after 78 days, I completed that mission, become the first recorded person ever to do so. And that was the start. Wow. Was there any wildlife encounters on that mission? yeah there was actually um i didn't see them i did see them on the following missions but with mongolia i was told by locals on horseback that there are wolves up ahead and that i would be eaten alive effectively and this was all in very scary hand gestures and movements because i couldn't speak mongolian they couldn't speak english but then i started to see evidence of of wolves in the area uh wild dogs as well i needed to be aware of them especially the tibetan mastiffs, they're brutal.

47:12The Tibetan mastiffs are like these big furry dogs. They look like mini bears and they are to protect the livestock from bears, snow leopards and wolves. And sometimes they aren't staked in the ground because the nomads are not used to seeing any other humans out there. So these would come up to you. You'd have to throw bricks. You'd have to do everything you can to keep these dogs at bay. So I'd say between the wolves and the Tibetan mastiffs were probably the biggest threat. Yeah. So would you say that near dehydration experience in the desert was the hardest part of any mission you've ever done?

47:56It's a good question. I do not know. I've had malaria in Madagascar and made it only three hours before slipping into a coma. I've been held up at gunpoint. Now that was scary because it's nothing I can do. It's just whether he had his coffee in the morning, if he's in a good mood. And I've almost lost a videographer on a nighttime river crossing, which was croc infested during nighttime, during a cyclone. And now that was scary because that wasn't my life. That was someone else's life. Someone else's, you know, it's my responsibility. They're on my expedition. So I think that was, for me, I held more fear towards something happening to someone else on my expedition.

48:38Yeah. Yeah, that makes so much sense when it's someone else. It's fine if it's you, but as soon as it's someone else on your dime, that's the thing that, let's go to that time. Tell me that story. Yeah, so this brings it on to Madagascar. This was a 155-day expedition, 1 ,600 miles south to north via the very interior, coming across communities I'd never seen white folk before, and they would react in very bizarre ways. I'd get onto that. while summiting the eight highest peaks. And this was an expedition that was just brutal. Held up at gunpoint, I had to avoid the bandits, eaten alive by the leeches and mosquitoes.

49:19We were hunting, we were gathering. We had to cross crocodile infested rivers, oftentimes building a raft to get across it just because we were unsure what lurks beneath. And one occasion we had a videographer, Suzanne. She was like Laura Croft, nails, you know, really hardcore. So we're like, okay, yeah, she's up for the challenge. And she's only with us for two weeks at this big 155 mile journey. But she was with us with possibly, you know, for potentially the worst part of the expedition, which is right up North Summerton, the highest peaks in the cyclone season. And it was at nighttime. We had crossed almost every river apart from the last one, which was the Marvav, notorious home for taking lives home for the crocs being very um present there and by the time we reached the riverbank night time was closing in a big cyclone was coming and we had no food this end of the um river and we were still far from the jungle it kind of opened up more into valleys so we needed to cross this river because by the time that cyclone hits we'll have to wait for days and on that side of the river, there's a community, you know, maybe another 20, 30 miles, which is food.

50:31So we had to cross it that evening. There were now four of us. We came across a local, he was on the riverbank for apparently six hours, hoping that someone would come because you need to cross this river forming a human chain. Trying to cross it alone is just suicide. And he was ecstatic to see us. So we listened to everything he says. He knows the river. It's now in full flow. We need to follow his every foot because he knows each and every rock that will keep your head above the water. So we're like, right, okay. We formed a human chain. Nighttime, the river is roaring. So we'd have to scream to hear each other and we'd be shining each other's head torches in each other's faces.

51:07So we were all very disorientated trying to follow this guy's footsteps, heading upstream. Suzanne, unfortunately, missed her footing. And so she was now grasped in mine and Max's grip and the weight of the rucksack, because we were carrying our rucksacks as well, of course, was pulling her under. She had to continue to kick up from the riverbed to come up, gasp for a breath of air before it ripped her back under. And at that point, I realised if me or Max let her go, not only would the weight of the rucksack pull her down, possibly get trapped, possibly bang her head amongst the boulders that are there with the force and flow of the rapids, this is croc infested.

51:51I'd further down like Crocs. We might not even find her. That is all that went through my mind. Miraculously, do not know what happened. She managed to find her footing. We pulled her up. We crossed to the other side. She was in bits, you know, crying. I was full of adrenaline and excited. So I was probably not making things better. I was like, woo! Because we did it. We made it. Oh God, but that was a scary moment. I was like, if we let go, I was looking at Max. You can imagine, right? You can't hear each other. Have you got her? We're blinding each other with a head torture. She's kicking up, taking a breath.

52:26And we're just like, we cannot let go. We cannot let go. And we didn't. Scary, man. So that was maybe the number one I faced many different times, you know, even being held up by a drunken officer ready to shoot me. But I think Suzanne takes it with that river crossing that was terrifying damn and so you've you've got to explain to me what happens after that moment you get to the other side of the river it's pitch black and you the you're hearing the rapids in the background loud i'm assuming yeah like one wrong step and you're done you get to the other side you're a static and because you're a maniac but but like she's now in bits she's like i'm so lucky to be here like what's going on straight after that river can you recall anything yeah i can yeah it took a while i think we were sat on our bags sort of thinking all the different scenarios that could have just happened and thinking that we're we're here yeah kind of leaving people to it as well you know we've all got our own emotional state our own vulnerabilities our own fears you know we're just like oh shit just went down but then eventually, you know, we, we pick ourselves up.

53:43We've got a location to, to head towards and we do, we keep walking. And it's only really the next day that we were able to talk about it fully, you know? And then after that, you know, I think that's the great thing with, I've done a lot of solo missions and a lot of team missions as well. And with the team missions, it's kind of like, you've got, in my case in Madagascar, four individuals, you know, we're equally four individual beating hearts. Now, how do we form as one? How do we bring this into a powerful team? They've all got their own emotions, their own feelings. Some are missing their parents, some are missing food, some are hungrier than others.

54:23And I think it's facing adversity like that, what you find is these four individual beaten hearts form as one power beating heart. And you notice it. I don't really know how to fully explain it, but something clicks where you're all synergized and you're moving as one force. And when you hit that moment, you become unstoppable. And I think it was after that point in time, we were just grinding. We sort of really took care of each other's needs, cares, vulnerability. I think we were all thriving off kindness at that point as well. And we were getting through it. You mentioned earlier that you're not religious or spiritual, really.

55:07That's got to be a pretty spiritual journey. It is, yeah. And when I say not spiritual, I would say I am, but I always try to find logical explanations first and foremost, which is interesting because when I was 19 and I set off for traveling, I told myself, look, my travel is going to take me far and wide. I am going to come across stuff that is simply unexplainable. And I have still to this day, there's stuff that has happened that I've tried to analyze that I'm just like, I can't think. I've put out there as well on social media and whatnot, and other people just don't have the answer. So, you know, I think if you don't have an answer...

55:44And stop looking. Sometimes there's stuff that we don't understand. Let that be. I just think when you're explaining everyone's heartbeats all coming into one power. Yeah. And you know, you can do the same moves. You know what people are thinking. You can respect everyone with wherever they're at. Yeah. You know, you can be united, work together as a team. Yeah. It can't be no fluke and there's no like logic that comes into play there. Yeah. But you have to have a level of trust in that moment, right? Yeah. Do you think trust is a massive part of these missions? Yeah, it's a huge one. I mean, a perfect example of that is when I mentioned about creating these bamboo rafts to get across crocodile infested rivers, you're relying on your team member to make sure that he's tied his corner tight and thorough.

56:30Because if that comes loose halfway across the river and it falls apart and now you have to swim with your rucksack with crocs surrounding you, you need the kind of trust that you're like, he's got me. I trust that he's tied that. I trust that this raft won't undo itself halfway across this river. And that is through being with each other day in, day out, I guess, and seeing their weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Like for example, Lever, the guy in Madagascar, he was way more effective at tying knots. That's a strength. That's my weakness. Let's delegate him to be the knot tire. So I think at that point, you get rid of all pride and ego.

57:12You address each other's strength and weakness. My strength was keeping high morale in a very shitty, dark, negative situation. I had so many emotions and feelings. I was scared. I was hating it. I lost all motivation in the jungle. I couldn't show that. I had to keep that shit internalized. I could feel it because there's nothing wrong with feeling that. But now they're looking to me because they're feeling that, but worse because they've not had the experience of the Gobi Desert or previous expeditions. They don't have any prior experience to draw upon. I do. So now they're looking to me and I've got to make sure that, you know, high energy, offering kindness, take my last bit of water.

57:54You know, I can go like another few miles until we reach the next spot. Now that stuff is all the difference. And for me, if it comes to take or choosing people to join me on these expeditions, it won't necessarily be on their credentials as such. It will be based on their enthusiasm and kindness. Someone can be kind during a very dark time that says a lot about their character. Yeah. Do you feel like those times in the teams where you've got to put a front up, I guess, to be that leader of like, no, we're good here, even though internally you don't feel good. Do you think that feels very isolating and lonely, even though you're with people?

58:36Because when you're alone, you can express the way you're feeling. But when you have to hold your own around people to make sure that they're good because they're in new territory, for me, that can feel very isolating and lonely because what you're feeling is not what you're showing up. Yeah. And when you apply this to everything in life is when you're showing up in a way that is not how you're truly feeling, there's a disconnect between how you feel internally and how you feel externally. What comes with that is pressure and just a lack of enjoyment because you can't express how you're feeling.

59:15And I think that can be a very taxing thing. Did you find in those moments, those were very, very taxing for you to show up in a way that is not how you're feeling in the hopes of being a leader? Yeah, 100%. It was very conflicting as well with what I was feeling, because as you say, I was saying one thing, but I wasn't feeling what I was saying. I was feeling far from it. And I faced it time and time again. A perfect example is at the source of the Yangtze, which is the next project we'll get onto. But at the source, I remember I had lost five members. I had been taken in five times by the authorities I had a first failed attempt at finding the source I was threatened with deportation and now my guide was dropped off by the police to collect the horse that we took with us 25 miles away from us during the evening and I was only five days into a 352 day journey.

1:00:15And all of that emotion just hit me. I didn't know if he would make it back to us. I didn't know if I could take another 350 days of this, you know? And I remember being on satellite phone to my dad and it was the first time I've ever said and that he's ever heard me say, what am I doing? Why am I doing this again? Through Mongolia and Madagascar, I never really questioned what I was doing. I got on with it and knew that I was in a really dark space and I need to push on. Tomorrow is another day, day by day. The storm hasn't come to stay. It's come to pass. Just withstand and outlast the storm and I'll see better days.

1:01:00but with the yangtze river it was just so overwhelming with how much bad shit went wrong and i didn't i wasn't even a week into a year-long world thirst and that was me showing the brave face to the guys that i was with but telling my parents something totally different not to worry them either but i was then able to just let my emotions go so it's important to also talk about it right and not keep things internal too much. I think keep things internal to help others until you need a little bit of help yourself or you need to express or let this loose. And that's kind of what I felt in Madagascar versus what I felt in the Yangtze where I really needed to let rip.

1:01:46And that was hard for my dad because he can't say, stop, give up, come home because he might know that I'll regret that. But he also can't say, keep going because I might die trying. So what do you do as a parent in that scenario when your sun is 5 ,000 meters altitude in the far west of China, you know, with bears, wolves following you for two days, looking for any signs of weakness. You have to show no limping, even though your blisters and your toenails are falling off. And, you know, so there's a lot of pressure. there's a lot of pressure that comes with it. And I, you know what, I make the mistake of being naive to the fact of knowing I've learned so much on these expeditions more than, more than I realize.

1:02:37And time and time again, I've opened up the Yangtze trip. Yeah, come and join me. And 10 members within the first two months, three months have been evacuated. Fear of wildlife, uncomfortable with that, not able to do this, altitude sickness, you know because they see it on instagram and they're like these are great stories great photos great videos in in a room comfortable but there's one thing thinking about it and picturing yeah that would be awesome i can do that it's a whole different vulnerability when you are out there and you physically have wolves and you're being told by the locals that this is bear season you need to pick up your pace because look and they're showing photos and videos of real life bears mauling people, going through villages, you know, storms that have dropped from like minus 20 to minus 70 within minutes.

1:03:24It's one of those vulnerabilities that you realize you're just on the menu for anything out here. And I don't think a lot of people are up to that pressure. They might be, but you've got to build up the credibility. Yeah. I think you showed true leadership by being able, a cost of leadership is being able to eat that feeling of like, I just can't share my thought right now. Yeah. I just can't. It's like, yeah, I feel it, but I'm not, this is not, this is part, I've signed up for this. Like I can't express this because I need to make sure that everyone's as secure as they possibly can. Yeah. Cause like, we're as strong as our weakest link here.

1:04:04And if these people are doubting and they're trying to turn around and, or they're going to make noises and arc the bears up or they're going to act like this because of me not showing them as making them as secure as possible yeah that's on me and there's like a level of leadership that that comes with that and that and the decision to be a leader kind of results in you having to just eat that cost for sure it's how how well you can manage your panic you know you all have the like i feel as much as anyone feels during times of vulnerability or isolation like my fiance went to Rome traveling solo for the first time.

1:04:40And when she got there, she just broke down. She's like, why am I doing this? Why did I spend that money to come here? This is dangerous. I'm a single traveler in this. The hotel isn't as nice. And she had these vulnerable feelings. And I was like, yeah, I felt that time and time again. That's fully normal. Just embrace it. Remember those feelings. You'll be absolutely fine. And for her, the next day, she was like, I've always had respect for what you do, but you just being able to relate to something so small of like going to Rome and spending a couple of nights there. And knowing those exact feelings and being able to share your stories makes me know that actually what you face, it's not because you don't hold fear.

1:05:17You hold as much fear and as much vulnerability as the rest of us. It's just you faced it so many times and you do still experience it every single damn time. It's just, I've learned how to manage it. You know, it's how to manage your panic. We could be in a dark situation in Madagascar. And if I share my panic, the other three members might not be able to contain it as much. They might freak people reacting very bizarre ways, right? And they don't know how they're going to react until they're truly put in that situation. And that's not what I want to see because if they don't know how to manage it, that's it.

1:05:50We all need to be evacuated now because they're causing stress or they're putting all of our lives in jeopardy or in great danger. And so it's, yeah, managing everyone's panic and stress, but not showing it. So how many people did you start the China mission with? So the China mission was supposed to be one film crew, but they abandoned the trip one day before we found the source of the Yangtze River. What's the source? So the source of the Yangtze River is the third longest river in the world and the biggest in Asia. And it's 4 ,000 miles long. It took 352 days to hike it, and it's across China's entirety.

1:06:34So it starts off in the Tibetan Plateau, far west of China, and actually pours into the East China Sea in Shanghai, 4 ,000 miles later. So that was a Guinness World Record filmed for National Geographic. And so in order for that to be filmed, we had film crew. Sometimes we had guides. Sometimes we had photographers. and the third person to go was a Tibetan guide who was there ready to get me off the altitude in case I suffered from altitude sickness. He in fact suffered from altitude sickness, was vomiting and bleeding from the nose and I had to bring him off the mountains to a nearby city, which put further jeopardy on my expedition.

1:07:12It meant that I had to start again a month later, which put me in bear hunting season. So this is where the mountains are too cold for the bears. they come off the mountains to search for calories before they go into Torpol, which is their version of hibernation. And they will find what they can out on the Tibetan plateau, humans intent being one of them. I mean, communities being another one, the amount of photos and videos that I've got, maybe we can share some here. It's pretty horrifying. And so I wanted different teams to join, to capture good content for Nat Geo and everyone that was flown in 16 altogether at different times, different stages, 10 of 16 were evacuated just because of the demands of the mission.

1:07:57So everyone was like film crew and all this stuff, but there was no one actually doing the thing with you? Trying to do the thing. They were trying to keep up. My UK photographer was sent out from the UK through to Beijing, from Beijing through to Yuxi to try to find me near the source of the river, probably two weeks away from the source I'd started into the expedition. And he lasted six hours on day number one before he was sent back to the UK. He was supposed to be with me for three weeks, but it was one landslide. And again, this perfect example, one landslide that I knew how to overcome because I'd faced this before.

1:08:33And it's the same, he's a photographer. It's like me dabbling in photography. I'd have no idea. I think I know what I'm doing, but I wouldn't really know what I'm doing. He's got years and years of experience. Whereas I often forget that, which is my bad. That's down to a bit of naivety thinking, yeah, if I can do it, you can do it. And he came and got to a point where I was just like, look, I don't know your capabilities. You do have a family at home. Don't risk your life. We're met by this big landslide. These are the two options that we can potentially cross the landslide, but I need you to spend five, 10 minutes on your own assessing.

1:09:05And you need to tell me if you're capable of doing that. Get rid of all ego or pride. You need to do what is safe for you. And I did. I left him there. He assessed and he just came back and he was like, no and there was no other way around it's big valleys big mountain you know and i was like you've made the right number no matter what you decide you've made the right decision and he did we got him sent back i think he's alive safe well with his family so that's the main thing right we don't want people risking their lives too much but that was a sheer example of people just the yangtze river he was just chewing up and spitting out everyone go to a A time where you're alone and it's interesting you mentioned the scariest time was when it was in someone else's life was on the line.

1:09:49Yeah. But I want to know about a time where you were alone and maybe there was some wildlife involved. Maybe there was something where you had to run and maybe there was something, a really scary moment in that 365 day mission or however long it took in China. What was a time where you were alone and you had a big scare? there's been quite a few but what was a big one obviously the gobi desert was a huge one you know the dehydration yeah go to the go to the the the the time in in china with all the bears and and all the yeah that that was from a place you know i felt probably more vulnerable in west china weirdly enough than in mongolia even though mongolia was a whole solo and unsupported journey west china with those altitudes and with the bears and the wolves that was a big scare so i I think it was the bears.

1:10:43I think there was one time where I woke up in the morning to try to cover as much distance that day because I knew that I was still in a dodgy area where bears were active. And I woke up really early, 3, 4 a.m. through the dark and I was walking head torch, had a whistle on hand. I had my walking poles there ready more for protection than anything, but out of my bag so that I could make noise. The night prior, I was gifted a knife by a local and I was like, what is this going to do to a Tibetan brown bear. It's not going to do anything. I remember walking, hearing noises and feeling so open and vulnerable with bushes to the left and trees to the right.

1:11:23Both towering trees walking on the small track thinking, anything could happen. They are out here and I'm making noises so that I don't approach the bears by surprise because that usually needs them to attack because it puts them in defense mode. And that went on for the best part of four months because it was a 12 month journey. Six months were mainly in the mountains. Four months was in that time where it was just too sketchy, bears and wolves. There was also another time that I was followed, but I was with another guy, a guy from Texas, actually a videographer. He was actually hardcore. He was the one that was able to stand the distance, but he was only with me for four days.

1:12:08And during the latter days, we were actually followed by a pack of wolves. And we were warned by Tibetan locals. They were saying, they were trying to tell us something, and he's actually fluent in Mandarin, but doesn't speak Tibetan. So they were trying to tell us something we didn't know. They just kept pointing at the valley, making wolves, you know, like, ah. And we're just like, yeah, we don't know. Thank you, Zayti. And you know, bye-bye. We carried on walking, but he filmed everything. For the next two days, we were followed by a pack in close proximity. They usually cover further distance than humans.

1:12:39And usually they're not a risk. It's a massive risk to attack humans as a wolf. So we didn't really think anything of it. We just had to know that we couldn't show any signs of weakness and we had to set up a fire and whatnot, keep them at bay. Fast forward six months later, my production team in Beijing get a hold of that footage. And a guy who spoke to Betting called me up on the sat phone some months later, I don't know where I was. I said, you had no idea what these guys were trying to warn you of. I was Do not go down that valley because only yesterday a local was killed by a pack of wolves.

1:13:13Completely oblivious. We're there. Oh, thank you. Bye bye. Whether it was the same pack we were followed by or not, we don't know. But again, it goes to show we were thinking one thing. It's too much of a risk for wolves to attack humans. And they told us another that only yesterday that they did. So did you ever see any of the animals? Yeah, I saw a bear in the distance. and I'd wake up often to fresh bare footprints. I think that was part of the worry, the vulnerability. I was noticing that they're here. Were you sleeping in tents? A tent on my own most of the time. 70 % of the journey, I would say I was alone.

1:13:51It shouldn't have been the case. Should have had more people with me for a lot longer durations. But there were times that just threw me. And oftentimes, I think mentally what was harder to deal with was when people left unexpectedly. Like that UK photographer, good mate of mine. I was so looking forward to be with him for three weeks. It's that morale, you know, it's that communication, it's the banter. And I was gone after six hours and I was like, oh God, I didn't anticipate this. I know the dangers ahead, but I always anticipated, ah, those dangers will be in, you know, in twos. I'll have someone with me, but now I've got to face it alone.

1:14:25And it's just that that throws you. And what about like food and everything? How are you going through this? Are you setting up a tent in the dark, in the desert? No, in the desert, in the jungle. Like, what do you, how's this work? I'm not sure if you've got photos and stuff that we can pop up. Yeah, those are photos and videos. How does all of the, how does all of this work? Like, you've got a backpack with a tent. How's everything being carried? Food or stuff? So it varies with each expedition. Mongolia, everything was on that trailer. Everything, all of the ration packs that I needed for the whole duration.

1:15:01The Yangtze, it wasn't a solo trip. It was a first to complete the mission. So with that, I had a backpack with ration packs, but any locals that we came across, I was always about mixing in with the local culture and traditions and experience in their way of life. This is why I love travel. With Madagascar, it was a mix. A lot of that was gathering whatever we could find, mangoes, coconuts, chilies, fruit of a veg, meat as well. that would be in the case of hunting tenrec, that burrow underneath trees. You just put your hand under the tree, pull it out. It's kind of like this rodent, almost like a hedgehog in a way.

1:15:37And then in Suriname, which was the latest expedition, I only returned there about eight months ago, back from there, that was dropped in the middle of the Amazon. And whilst we took 10 days worth of ration packs for a near two month journey, a lot of it was hunting and gathering. and a lot of that was sucropia tops, which can be found on trees, which is kind of like a vegetable, which my guide Dick learned by studying the spider monkey. We can digest what spider monkeys can. And the spider monkeys kept eating these sucropia tops. So one day he just tried it and he was fine the next day. And then other times we were doing a lot of fishing, you know, and a lot of cutting.

1:16:18So we'd go to the riverbank with the machete on the Copernam River in Surinam, in the Amazon at nighttime where all the fish would come in to sleep. We'd have our head torch and we would just see all of these shining eyeballs reflecting. Some were caiman, others were piranha, some were wolfish. And you'd go in with your machete and crack the back of the head. Not the caiman, but the piranha, stingray and wolfish. And you'd pull them up. So we were catching piranha that were the black bellied piranha four or five times the size of the red bellies, which are like famous on movies. These were big.

1:16:53And then wolf fish, you're almost looking one meter, maybe more longer. You'd eat them. We'd pull them out. Yeah. And we would eat them. You can eat piranha. You can eat piranha. Yeah. Yeah. In many different ways as well. You can boil it, you can fry it. Yeah. I'm so, I'm so fascinated. It's, it's such a crazy life. Like, yeah it is bizarre isn't it and you know what i think what's crazy is this for me is is the challenge it was what's often hard is people struggle to relate to what i do you can what i do is i see in my mind as it's the physical endurance side of it you know it's it's like the iron man's then some and when i say that because i get a lot of questions about especially on social media, you know, with David Goggins.

1:17:42And it's like, look, that man is a savage. He's a legend, a household name. But what we do, whilst people think it's similar, it's totally, totally different. Because with the endurance challenges of doing over a marathon a day through the Gobi Desert, pulling 120 kilograms, 18 stone, I don't get to go back home and shower and eat normal food. I have to, like the Amazon, hunt, catch my own food, set up my own hammock. I'm out there oftentimes 34 days without seeing a single human. So it's like it's an endurance challenge meets you have to survive. There's going to be no van following you, no tarmac road where there's people, there's food, there's water.

1:18:26You're doing a marathon plus a day every day through the harshest environment. And then at the end of the day, you don't get no phone call. you're under the jungle canopy you don't get no food no van's gonna drop off a you know tesco meal deal you're out there surviving your shit you you will only eat if you catch if you don't catch you will not eat and that's why we lost 13 kilograms in the jungle altogether even though we were eating but there's only so much that we can gather and in terms of hunting you can only really hunt what doesn't hear you coming and through the jungle everything hears you coming Yeah, dude, it's crazy.

1:19:05Just as we kind of get towards the end of this, I want to ask you a question about death because I'm fascinated. Do you think about death much? And I guess the thing I want to know is what do you think would kill you first, age or these missions that you're going on? I would like to say age because I think I'm at a point now where, there you know that there's more backing the finances there the productions there you know so the safeties they're like even with so and i'm dropped off in the amazon whilst there wasn't necessarily evacuation per se we had everything covered that in an emergency we still worked the best possible route that we can get out of there even if it was a struggle depending on where the incident happened underneath the jungle canopy because we needed an opening.

1:20:02And like with this next project, whilst it's dangerous and there's a lot more sort of extreme activities from skydiving, scuba diving that I'm going to be implementing because that's also my background. Land, air and sea, I've got all of the licenses and qualifications in that. Again, it's a bigger profile expedition. So unlike Mongolia, where there was just no profile, there was no clout, there was no finance, there was no insurance, there was no evacuation. now they are getting better. And that's not to deter the extreme and ambitious aspect of these latest ones, because they are still in every way.

1:20:37But you've got to look after yourself because, man, I fear death. I love life. This is why I do it. I just love living. I love getting out there. I love having these experiences, like all of them. Probably I've faced so much in my life, but probably the greatest experience of a human being that I've had is falling in love, you know, is back to basic human things that happen to the everyday person. It's not necessarily going out and doing these. I love that stuff too, but I love the luxuries. I love the, I'm getting loads of cramp here. I love the luxuries. I love the comforts. I think it's being very adaptable.

1:21:20So whilst I love these extreme endeavours, I make sure that there's a way that I can survive it. If I'm like, oh, it's only 95%, it's not worth it. You're going to die. Do it properly. Just study. Put the groundwork and put the homework. And if you know full well, 100 % mentally and physically you can overcome that challenge, go for it. Yes, accidents happen, but I wouldn't willingly cross a road without looking left, thinking, yeah, I'm sure there won't be a bus. It's just making sure you've got all angles covered. Albeit with what I do, there's so many more angles to cover. It doesn't matter.

1:21:53Cover those angles. Don't be silly. So you mentioned falling in love is the greatest thing that you've felt. I think so. Yeah. I've had so many experiences. I've experienced, I remember in the Gobi Desert, my logistics manager, because I said to him, can you imagine there's going to be pure silence. And he replied, there's no such thing as silence unless you are dead. Never knew what he meant. And then when I was in the point of the Gobi Desert where there was utter silence, that's where I heard my own body functioning. Didn't know it straight away. It took me 15, 20 minutes to realize there's this humming noise that I'd never heard before.

1:22:31I thought maybe it's in the trailer. There was no wind, no insects. There was nothing out there. I walked about 100, 200 meters away from my trailer and I could still hear it. And it was at that point I realized, That's what he meant because he never told me. He was like, as long as you're still living, you'll always hear your body functioning. There's no such thing as silence. I've seen the darkest skies. I've had the northern lights explode. I've seen the biggest sandstorms. I've seen the most dramatic sunsets. I've seen people's reaction to seeing humans for the first time ever. I've been in the middle of the Amazon experiencing a jaguar, a jaguar's first time ever seen a human and it's last time ever seen a human.

1:23:10You know, experience the biggest highs, the darkest lows, but, um, you know, falling in love is just, yeah, for me, it, it tops all of them. Not, not in a way that I'm poo-pooing all of them because they're all unique in a way, but I'm saying that just because I've experienced so much doesn't mean you and the everyday person can't experience the greatest stuff because you still can. The greatest stuff is often experienced in everyday life as you evolve, as you, you know? So it's a beautiful thing, you know? So whilst it seems all dark and like, well, reckless and adventurous, all of these expeditions is purely based on the fact of, I just love living, love experience.

1:23:59I don't want to waste life. It's too precious. There's just so much to see and do. I won't even stand in a queue, like waiting for whatever it might be, an ice cream. You know, my girlfriend's like, why? Why do you see that as a waste? It's like, I am in the moment, but I don't like spending half an hour in the same place queuing for something unless the reward is absolutely worth it. Otherwise, there's better stuff we can be doing. That's so cool. And so just as we close out, Tell me a bit about this mission that you're doing and tell me what you want to say and enlighten me on what you're about to embark on.

1:24:34The latest project, maybe the biggest step of my adventuring career so far, a big three and a half thousand mile journey from source to sea of the Yellow River, north of China, starting off in the Tibetan Plateau, far west, nearly 5 ,000 meters altitude, crossing the Gobi Desert, again, a place that nearly killed me, all the way to the sea out far east. But with this, it's a mix of land, air, and water. I'm going to be jumping from helicopters. I'm going to be paragliding. I'm going to be scuba diving. I'm going to be kayaking. I'm going to be mountain biking to showcase what is regarded the deadliest river on the planet for the fact that it's taken more lives than any other river.

1:25:16But it's history, it's culture, it's tradition, and the fact that Chinese civilization, one of the first civilizations ever, was actually birthed on the Yellow River banks some 7 ,000 plus years ago. So this journey is going to be massive. It's a big international TV show. That's why I say it's the biggest step of my career. I'll have a full production, 10 to 12 members filming an entire sequence from source to sea, which is going to be aired internationally. So, you know, it's something that I've been planning now for a good year to a year and a half. Massive team. And I leave this Friday. You know, I leave this week.

1:26:01In fact, probably when this episode drops, I'm probably in China already, right? So, and China's like a second home. They've always got my back, my brand, my name is much greater in China than it is in the West, just given what I've done there with the Yankseo River. I filmed a big international TV show following the Great Wall of China for 21 ,000 kilometers. So things have developed well there. So they welcome me with open arms and it's like a second home to me. And what scares you the most about this one? What scares me the most is all of the different extreme activities that I'll be doing.

1:26:32Not for the fact that it's the likes of paragliding, potentially in strong temperamental winds and jumping out of helicopters. It's the pressures that comes with TV. and performing. I've got to stick to my grounds, to my guns and know when enough is enough. And when to listen to my gut, put things off, let's do that tomorrow. Today doesn't feel right. It's all about that. You've got to feel it. You've got to be in the moment and outside distractions can really throw you off. And with this, there's no second chances. And so probably that. And of course, making sure the team are well looked after as well.

1:27:12It's a big production team they can look after themselves. But we all go into high altitude. And I know what comes with that. I've evacuated too many people in the past from that. There will be the bears, there will be the wolves. But again, safety in numbers. But I just cannot wait to share because it's not necessarily about me this journey. It's about the Yellow River. It's about the people that call it home, all of the traditions and culture. So I'm getting to really show off a different side to China. We're talking West China is just so incredibly remote. They're living how they used to live thousands of years ago.

1:27:42And as you follow the infancy of the Yellow River to where it's almost 10 miles wide towards the sea and where there's cruise liners, you're talking mega cities, cities that are 20 years ahead of the likes of London, 10, 20 million plus people where the whole skyline is in synergy with its lights. So it is almost like a journey of 7 ,000 years going back from where it first started to modern day age of how we run things today. And what do you want to get out of this? I think with this, I want to shine a different light to China. I want to take people on an adventure in a way that hasn't been done and show people the yellow river in a way that hasn't been shown before.

1:28:30I think you've got many TV presenters and they'll be presenting with their boots on, observing from the outside. But with what I do and with what I bring to the table, as you've seen, I get involved. I won't be on tandem paragliding. It won't be a tandem jumping out of the plane. It will be me solo or qualifiers or licensed. It won't be me observing in a Mongolian wrestling. I'll be getting involved in the wrestling and wrestling a Mongolian champion and get my ass handed to me. But that's what I really want to bring. The spiciest food, the craziest traditions, biggest wrestling, the highest drops, the greatest paraglides, kayaking the most extreme rapids, getting involved and just showcasing on a much greater scale this adventure because these adventures just inspire people.

1:29:22I want to inspire people to get off out into the outdoors put your phones down reconnect with nature you know live stop wasting time get out there and i think that this will do that i love it man thank you no thank you man i uh i want to commend you it's really cool it's inspiring appreciate it there's just like it's so unique i think what you're documenting is really cool and it's just going to make people like the more you continue to grow people are just going to be so amazed and i think you should be really proud of what you're building so i appreciate it man yeah thank you and you know i'd love to open it up and have people join one day where it's safe i'd love to take people open it up again have people out there with me you know get involved um and then again you know with all of these i think it's important to touch on with all of these expeditions they've not been for the sole right of world records you know with mongolia i was raising funds for the red cross who support the local nomadic way of life.

1:30:19I was also raising awareness about climate change and the effects it has on their way of life. With Madagascar, I was raising funds and awareness for the Lima Network Conservation, doing everything to protect the unique biodiversity of the island. Stunning. 90 % of all plant life and wildlife found in Madagascar is found nowhere else in the world. And then with the Yangtze, I pointed out with WWF and UNESCO. So it's always a bigger key angle if you can do what you're passionate about do what you love but bring in key important factors give back and help where you can that's that's the beauty of these combinations of the the adventures thank you so much ash i appreciate it thank you my man thank you i'll speak to you very very soon and if you guys have made it to the end make sure you follow and tune into all of ash's stuff and leave us a five-star review on spotify or apple it'll help the show grow help us keep getting awesome people like ash back on the show just screenshot this and tag us in your instagram stories so he can personally thank you yes we're going to sign up for if you're going to be in the desert oh no in the jungle i don't know how this is going to be when we release this but thank you guys for tuning in and we'll see you very very soon bye-bye close your eyes exhale feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today well i'm letting go of the worry that i wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class i got them delivered free from 1-800 contacts oh my gosh they're so fast and breathe oh sorry i almost couldn't breathe when i saw the discount they gave me on my first order oh sorry namaste visit 1-800 contacts.com today to save on your first order 1-800 contacts