#95: Elliot Bewick: Gen Z’s War With Reality

33:19Yeah. I think logic can certainly help. But that's not to say that it's perfect. But I mean, something people often think of logic as just like good thinking but but logic is an actual system it's kind of mathematical there are um statements that are true and the conclusion necessarily follows things like that um and by using more mathematical ways of looking at life sometimes looking through an objective lens that's how you can get rid of some of this emotion but it's not perfect but here's the deal with with this i'll i'm gonna i'm gonna challenge us not that you're against it, you're just stating a reality that a lot of us face.

33:59This nature of, like, if you didn't have that trait, would you have all of the amazing things that's got you to where you are today, right? If we think about this, what comes with, in this example of booking a nice Airbnb, we're staying in a nice place. The consideration behind this, by the way, was I wanted enough room so you could stay as well, so you weren't traveling for all of the things as well. That's the way of math. Yeah, that's the boy man as well. I was like, let's do that. But the thing is, perhaps if I wasn't as confident with my mission and what I'm achieving and what I'm going to achieve, I wouldn't have even had that optimistic view, which is like an abundance view of I can just book the place.

34:41It doesn't fucking matter. I don't care. because I'm so confident and I've taken this abundance view, probably to extremes and can probably go too far at times, but I've taken this abundance view of like, it doesn't matter if I spend however much more pound on getting a bigger place for the couple of weeks that I'm here because like the amount that I'm making now is so marginal relative to what I'm going to be making the next six or 12 months. That's fine. It's fine. Let's just book it. Are we going to have a better experience there? Yeah. okay let's just do it and then that's my kind of my extreme abundant lens and but i think it can bite you but it's also served me so much in my life so it's like the trade-off right accepting it what's the key factor here it's the story again it's the belief that it will pay off in six to twelve months and because you have that belief it will yeah the problem is being guided by emotion and you also don't have any story of your life that you're telling yourself you're not working towards anything and this is why i think emotion is not a bad thing again it's the story i think the retard like me with a story is gonna fuck up the person that's mathematizing everything left brain cerebral approach to life super hyper autism mode activated i'm gonna fucking beat them if i have a better story and they'll beat me if they have a better story than i well it's this it just comes down to this confidence piece of okay you have a story but do you believe in it Do you fucking mean it?

36:07Yes. Because if you mean it, then there's nothing going in the way of that. And that's emotional. And it comes down to deciding. People talk about manifesting, right? This fluff word. But all manifesting is deciding. You're deciding you're going to do something and you're disregarding the other options. And so for me, when I look at this, I go, you are deciding. And when you have decided, it's not a matter of do I quit? It's a matter of how long is this going to take? when you have decided on something in your mission it's always perceived to be easier than the actual mission itself because you embark on the journey and it's so much fucking harder the people that quit are the ones that have doubt and when you're so confident and you've decided on the mission it's just a matter of okay well let's change course let's figure out how we're going to get there another way let's jump over this hurdle okay maybe we need to build a ladder to get over this hurdle because it's a bit big but it's not a question of do we build the ladder or not it's like, no, okay, we just got to do it.

37:02That's what happens when you decide. And when things come into life and you manifest your dream life, all you've done is you've decided that you're going to get there no matter what. And it's a commitment to the process, regardless of how big the process is. And I think when I reflect on my life, right, people ask me all the time, what's the thing that drives you? And I say, the thing that drives me is the fact that I set goals and expectations patience on the life that I wanted to achieve when I was in an extremely delusional state. I was so delusional when I was 16 and I had these goals when I was 16 that I wanted to be this multi-millionaire.

37:41And I honestly thought it was going to be so fucking easy. I remember writing, I was looking at some notes that popped up from like 2019 on this notes page. And I remember reading it just that I was planning out that I was going to make 20 grand a month there. I was going to make 40 grand a month there. This was going to be in the next 12 months. I was going to be 17, 18 years old. Delusional, so much harder. But because I set the expectation on the life that I wanted to live, when I didn't know how hard it was going to take, anything below achieving that, I'm going to be disappointed. And so I went, okay, well, this is going to be a whole lot harder, but I'm buckling up.

38:14I'm going. And so I think about this and it's this ability to go, if you feel like quitting and you genuinely do, you just haven't truly decided on what you want in your life. Because if you did, then you wouldn't quit. And for those that perhaps prefer something more quantifiable rather than just motivational storytelling, both are important here. I think humans also through evolution, we're so adaptable to our situation. We return to homeostasis very quickly. We get used to getting the car or getting the bigger house or the same way with things that are bad that happen in our lives and with that it means if you set these goals that aren't ambitious or none at all you're going to be very comfortable staying in that state and this is like the the beta paradox um beta region paradox or something where the hardest part is when you've actually got a nine-to-five and it's just about paying your bills because the discomfort's not great enough to force you to do anything else but the comfort's also not great enough to make you fulfilled um so so with that it's just like yeah i'm aware of the fact that we're super adaptable as a species so i'm gonna set this ridiculous target i mean you see elon musk or other entrepreneurs like tom bilyeu they set a goal that's for 365 days and then they fast track it to a month on their team they just drop it okay this has changed we're not doing this in a year we're gonna do this within a month and then they fucking do it um so So I think you need to be really careful with the goals you set yourself and err on the side of ambition.

39:54The interesting thing I think for both of us to consider is when that delusion can harm us, if it ever does come into conflict with reality. That's the big challenge here. What do you mean though? Why would it harm us if it comes into reality? to take an extreme example fucking flying too close to the sun thinking you can do anything and biting off biting off more than you can chew um and i think you can counter that by things like gratitude and being humble and being aware that you know nothing i can imagine i often think about this for myself i love debating people i love speaking to people and getting different ideas and challenging them.

40:34If I'm not careful, very soon with my confidence, I will challenge someone to debate me who will destroy me. And that will be on the grounds of me wanting the fight and being guided by this sort of selfish impulse rather than analyzing it objectively. So I think maybe delusion isn't harmful as long as you're semi in control of other variables like emotion but delusion is tied to emotion in many ways so it's a difficult one to navigate yeah well delusion is meaning like it hasn't really been done before uh there's there's one thing believing it's possible but then there's another thing believing that you are capable of making it possible like you're the person that can bring that to life that's where the confidence piece comes in because I would say that delusions required because it's not a path walked very often.

41:32But again, if we tied into this thing around deciding, it may take longer than you expected. It may take less, but it may take longer than you expected. But if you decide and you want to do it now, I think it's important to not be married to the idea because we change, we evolve. I think that's really important. It's that constant awareness of, is this serving me? Is this not? But then again, going, okay, it's not serving me right now, but it's tied to a longer vision. So I need to trust the path because that's where people can probably quit as well. Oh, it's hard. This isn't serving me. It's jeopardizing all these other things.

42:09But then without it, there's no fulfillment. so it's this reminder constant reminder of i am proceeding on this path because i know it's meant to be and i know it's going to light me up and i know it's therefore but i think that the thing that's important to note as well is you said about like jeopardizing other things making sure that it's in service of others at the emphasis because if it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and it's this uh selfishness about it the debate as an example someone trying to debate just to let everyone know that they are right. That's ego. Yes. It's loud and it's actually not serving like confidence does because the ego thing, I've read you that confidence and ego comparison.

42:57Have I read that to you? Fuck. Well, maybe I have to pull it up at some point in this conversation, but it was explaining how confidence is, I know who I am and I'm okay if you don't. ego is, I want you to see how great I am so I can see it too. And it's like confidence is quiet, ego is loud. And confidence doesn't have to prove anything, ego always does. And so when we look at these differences, it's going, let's look at the situation here. The debate example, pushing outside of your limits. You've probably had a run streak of winning. So you're like, oh, I can fucking go again. If we even look at someone like Jake Paul, right?

43:40if he just went on a motion, he'd probably have already fought fucking, I don't know, some massive fighter right now. But then he's probably had his team bring him back into line and go, no, we need to be a bit more strategic here. Let's build up the ranks a little bit so that we don't blow ourselves out. And perhaps if he did push too far beyond and he got humbled, that would still be part of the journey. If he decided on the outcome he wanted, it would just be a hurdle because he's still going. But if he's kind of blown himself out and he's been doing this whole journey just to fulfill his ego and his self-fulfilling prophecy and it's all selfishness, then maybe when he has the fail, he's going to drop off more because he wasn't actually doing it for the mission.

44:23He was doing it for what it gave him, which was this public perception or whatever it might be. Yeah. You touched on the key point there of delusion and it's believing that you can do it sure you can believe that something's possible but can you be the one to do it that's the big hurdle to jump over and we've been tricked as a society into thinking that we have to act differently to what we actually want to act like to get positive affirmation from everyone else i think a big factor of it social media is this external validation that's constant and obviously there are certain tropes with influencers right they all do similar things they all have similar strategies to blow up and there's a reason for that it's to do with the social media algorithms and what they reward and with that little kids the majority of them now want to grow up and be an influencer the majority of them are wanting to become something that may not be actually in alignment with what truly is their purpose in life so the delusion that you need to be successful a key factor is believing that you can be the one to do it but if you're doing something that isn't aligned with your true self how are you going to believe that anything's ever for you it's it's not for you because you're not acting like yourself you're putting on this false persona and another danger of that as well is that you're always going to be lonely you're never going to be fulfilled because even if you get praise even if you get millions of followers and you see this happened to Avicii I think I watched this documentary and I'd hate to put his death down to one thing and I'm the one that knows but one of the key things they touch about is Avicii was called Avicii rather than Tim his real name therefore he was touring the world he was a superstar the biggest DJ this great innovator for electronic music but people are praising Avicii it's not Tim it's this performer with the cap on and he's DJing at 5am when actually maybe he wants to be doing something else right now and they're applauding him they're screaming at him in the streets his followers are going up but it's not Tim it's this persona that's got the fame and I think that's one of the big reasons why these celebrities so often crash out even when they have millions of fans or thousands of fans in their dms telling them how great they are because they're not telling that person how great they are it's their persona is so great yeah the way that they're being viewed is like they are someone that they're not because they are showing up in one way and the disconnect between that person and who they truly are is so great and then they build fame based on something that's not them so that everyone treats them like they're someone else.

47:22So then of course you feel isolated. Of course you feel alone. This is why we talk about the biggest superpower being authenticity. You strip away the authenticity, you are asking yourself for isolation because you're getting people to like you based on someone who is not you. And that is where the loneliness thing comes in. and loneliness being the absence of connection, not people, because you can be in a crowd and still feel isolated, right? Perhaps the answer to less loneliness is to be more authentic because then any connection that you do form is actually formed based on you and who you are.

48:02We remove that, right? Then what? And then I guess the other thing that's in suicide letters is, the most common things in male suicide notes is the fact that they feel useless and they feel worthless. So there's a lack of place in this earth. It's the most common thing that they see in suicide notes. And so it's this idea that men are so confused at the moment because what society is telling them to do is not actually what they want to do and it's not filling their cup. So they don't feel like they have a certain place in this earth. Exceptions to the rule, this is generalizing here, but that's just what they've seen in suicide notes.

48:41And so if we look at this, we go, okay, well, perhaps a slippery slope to an unfulfilled lack of identity-ridden life is by being unauthentic and trying to be someone who you're not. Because you're just going to feel way more isolated and no one's going to treat you the way that you want to be treated. So then you'll feel useless and worthless. People always say this, be authentic, be your authentic self. And they especially apply it to relationships. You need to show him your authentic self or you need to show her your authentic self. and the problem is it's often a cope for just being fucking lazy and not doing anything like i'm going to show her my authentic self by picking my nose in front of her and not brushing my teeth and not working out and rolling around in my boxes all day maybe that's in your nature to do sometimes on your off day but there's a key distinction here between authenticity and and lowering your standards to the point of which you're only showing the worst of your traits.

49:43This is so pervasive in our culture today. It's a tricky one to challenge because on the surface and intuitively knee-jerk reaction here, that seems kind of authentic, especially if you're not putting it on. That's kind of what you feel in that moment. But one of the big sort of clashes here is authenticity with standards and responsibility and showing up for the vision of yourself in the future, because that vision is authentic too. You still need to aspire to be operating at your highest level. And you certainly want to be like that for other people. Yeah. But I would say that all of those things have nothing to do with authenticity.

50:21They're habits. It's got nothing to do with your subconscious, your identity, the person who you truly are. If you don't brush your teeth every day, you just have a bad habit and you're just unhygienic. Brush your fucking teeth. And if you don't, that's not being your authentic self. You're just being grotty, simply put. And I think there's a big distinction here between the way that we live and then the way that we show up. Because if we're showing up in a way that's not aligned with our soul, then that's the the unauthentic piece here it's like i feel this way but i'm a bit scared of how people are going to perceive me if i show up this way so i'm going to then show up in a different way and i guess when you're not truly confident with who you are that's probably where you're less authentic maybe this is an interesting thing we can ponder on what's upstream from being authentic?

51:19What do we need to do in order to be able to show up authentically at ease? Because that's an interesting thing. Do you have any thoughts around what we could do? Because I'm thinking maybe it's a number of things, right? If you look at yourself in the mirror and you're not proud of who looks back, how are you going to want to be authentic? You're going to be going against the grain trying to be authentic because you don't love the person. So of course, you're not going to show up in a person that you don't love. The meat suit that you're in, you don't even enjoy. Of course, you're not going to show up, right?

51:51And so perhaps it's like, okay, maybe we need to have these fundamentals in line. Okay, you're struggling to show up authentically. Why? Okay, I'm not in good shape. I eat shit food, and so I'm clouded all of the time. I don't be nice to other people. I don't say hi to the barista all the time, and I just put my head down and tap. I'm mindlessly scrolling all day. I know I'm in a job that I don't like to do, but I just do it anyway because I'm scared. All of these things are going to make you result in less confidence. And then I think the confidence is the thing, true confidence is the thing that will allow you to be authentic.

52:27When you strip that away, maybe you just opt for being someone that you're not. In my opinion, the biggest way to stop feeling so down about yourself and being inauthentic is to stop outsourcing what's impressive and what fulfills you to other people's opinions because as soon as you outsource that to others opinions on you it's very difficult to gauge and i've been thinking about this a lot recently especially as my socials have been blowing up a little bit over the past few weeks relative to where they were and i've been getting loads of nice dms i never got that before when i was smaller never like no messages no friends really even telling me that i was doing a good job and like suddenly one person that's established says that i'm bitcoin at one dollar and then everyone flocks to me and they go oh you're doing such an amazing job and i think some of them mean it most of them mean it they look at my page and they see that there's substance there and they're impressed by it but they weren't impressed by it before so a lot of the time for whatever reason people are blocked from expression expressing how they really feel about you by other factors.

53:40A lot of the time, they're just too scared to say it. And so many times I've had experiences with people where they'll text me afterwards, maybe after a podcast. I'm not too sure how it went. Did it go well? Did it go badly? And they go, I really enjoy that conversation. That was so interesting. It was really mind stimulating. So it's just impossible to gauge what people think of you. And sometimes they will let you know what they truly think sometimes they won't so external validation is a dangerous thing to over prioritize that's a key part in this and authenticity i mean being authentic is being yourself and showing up for yourself not to be too selfish and over prioritize that you need to still hear someone out when they're saying that you're a dickhead because it may be true you need to look into that but don't prioritize external validation too much and think about what actually is part of the narrative of your life.

54:35Yeah. Talk to me about this experience then the last few weeks of kind of, I know what you're feeling, this element of, okay, now they flock, flock in. And it's like, now there's people here. Now my friends support me. Now all this.

54:54I feel that I kind of don't blame them because when you don't see the results people kind of just go well fuck he's trying the problem with it though is when you're getting all the traction you don't need the support right then you kind of needed it on the day where the reel you thought was going to be so good got four views and the podcast was like blurry and out of focus and you're just fucking frustrated and you've been going at this for so long and you get no traction like you kind of need the support then but then you also go like if someone's not very close to you then it's interesting their motives of why they would do that anyway it's like we're wired to kind of go towards people that are succeeding but i guess maybe if maybe someone can't maybe people in the culture struggle to cheer people on maybe that's the limiting belief.

55:52But talk to me about this experience for you over the last few weeks. Things have changed a lot. There's been a lot of traction and things have kind of taken storm. And I want to know how you've been dealing with it all. It's frustrating on one level that people just flock now when the content hasn't changed. It's been the same the last year. All the interviews that I've done, I'm proud of. Otherwise, I wouldn't do them because I've really been prioritizing value. And that's different someone else who's just doing podcasts. I mean, there are so many people in the UK that are like this. They're doing podcasts to get the views.

56:25So then when the validation comes, it's like, yes, I've achieved my goals. But for me, sure, that's one of the goals because I want to make an impact. Therefore, I need to reach people. But the core of it is providing value. And when I've been doing that for 11 months with this pod now, it's like, okay, like this is nice. This is refreshing that more people are viewing it and it means a lot more it's less emotional and I haven't really felt this visceral sense that I thought I would of going yes I've hit 20k followers yes I've hit 25k yes I've hit 30k I've got all these views it's just been more of this slow burn niceness that the mission I'm on is slowly coming to fruition and I'm happy with that I wouldn't change anything for the world and I've had a lot of gratitude for this this moment but there is still always that voice inside your head going is this it like is this where it stops do I get cancelled from here or do people start unfollowing me because they weren't interested in my stuff there's there's always that doubt um but at the moment feeling super pumped and I don't feel that doubt too much actually i just want to jump on this momentum yeah and you can see that right like you can see the excitement about it and you know i i it's it's a it's an exciting fun phase and you can see the gratitude piece it's an interesting thing like even last night you were explaining that can you have too much gratitude you know you're you're thinking i wonder if there's a bad and i actually you don't think there is do you think there's a bad i don't think you can because gratitude is just this like a heart opener it just makes you feel so much more appreciative of of everything and i don't think you can kind of do that too much because you can't have if you appreciate something you can't really what's what's an old opposite of an appreciation because if you're if you're experiencing one thing you can't really experience the other at the same time complaining complaining is probably the opposite to appreciating something yeah maybe when you're appreciating something so much you can't really complain the gratitude i feel like gratitude just eliminates so many of these negative emotions that don't actually serve us in fact i wonder if there's any negative emotion that serves you do you think i mean there's certainly negative emotion that serves you not wanting to go to the gym and it being painful and you go to the gym anyway and get stronger from it um but yeah the the gratitude thing like i it's funny like yeah i just feel this abundance of gratitude at the moment and i wonder if it can go too far if it will make me complacent if it'll make me just settle i don't think it will because i have the mission and the end goal that i want and i won't be fulfilled until i get that and then i'll get that and I'll move on to something else again.

59:29But it's a crazy feeling. I've never felt like this in my life. And I've spent four or five years now behind the camera filming. I planned all this shit out when I was like 13. I always wanted to be in front of the camera. I grew up watching YouTubers and podcasters and people in front of Shure SM7B mics and being like, I want to be that person and I was wise enough I think and I was happy with the fact that I didn't just jump in front of the camera straight away although I did like I made vlogs and had a bit of fun practiced but I knew that I needed to learn from people before I went all in so I did and I got different work where I was paid for all I was probably losing money on train tickets going back and forth to their studio and worked my way up and learned from it and then finally after four years I was like okay now it's time to jump in in front of the camera I mean this might be interesting to you might not but the last trip I went on to America with Trigonometry the podcast they've got like 1.5 million subscribers on YouTube and I was with them for three years that was my university the university of trig rather than actual university and it was the best experience ever I learned from two incredible people the hosts and the rest of the team and I wouldn't have changed it for the world.

1:00:49I remember thinking this at the time, like I would not rather work for Modern Wisdom, even though I'm a huge fan of this podcast. I wouldn't be Joe Rogan's producer. There's nothing else in the entire world I'd rather do than this job, which is a pretty cool feeling. We went to America a few times to film podcasts and we went on this last trip. And after the trip, I did a little tour of the Bible Belt, going and interviewing different people. I was traveling with their producer Jack. And eventually we ended up in New Orleans, which is a shithole. And sorry to any New Orleaners, but it is shit food.

1:01:26Just keep sending my audiences there, man. Yeah, fucking all. And I was doing this investigation into Christianity and the Bible Belt and all of these different beliefs. And I also wanted to throw into Mick's tarot because New Orleans used to be the home to Mary Laveau, who was the founder of Voodoo. So I walked down Bourbon Street, which is just the trashy party street there. And there were these different tarot readers doing all these readings. And the funny thing was, as you got further down the street, they became closer and closer to being legit. And by legit, I mean, tarot is obviously not real in the sense that it's some magical way of seeing your destiny.

1:02:08but I think it's a tool to unlock what you're already thinking and what you perhaps want deepest down what your elephant really wants that will fulfill you right um so I started off this bullshit guy like doing a palm reading oh you're gonna have this many kids blah blah blah um second one you're gonna do great things and it was great then I got to this last guy and I got this card and I'll never forget this it was the eight of cups and the eight of cups it's this illustration of eight cups stacked up four on the bottom four on the top but there's one missing um well five on the bottom three on the top there's one missing on top and in the background there's this guy and he's walking in the middle of this snowy terrain there are mountains in the distance he's got a stick over his shoulder with this sack of some food and what the cups represent is everything in life that you wanted absolutely everything you've got this abundance you've got the best job in the world you wouldn't fucking go and work with modern wisdom or joe rogan you wouldn't rather do any other career i don't know testing chocolates or something wonderful um you have absolutely everything you could ask for in life but there's this one cup missing and this guy he's turned around and he's just fucking walking off into the snowy terrain and he's gonna search for that fucking cup and he's left all other cups behind he's risked it all to find the last cup and i remember i got this card and at the time i'd been wanting to do my own show for a while and um it was it was really annoying me um not being able to make my own content and have my own impact and that trip was the first time i'd been filming something for my channel Outro And it marked the start of all of this.

1:04:21It was starting to turn around from all the cups I had to find that last fucking cup. And the next card along in the tarot journey, it's the nine of cups. And he's sat on this throne and he's found the last cup. and it means that all the other cups have elevated they're worth even more than before because he risked it all to get the full set and now they're even more fulfilling um so i don't know let's see if i can get the nine cups why do you feel like you don't believe in the stuff after experiencing all of that i think i do in the sense that i'm speaking about this so passionately because it really resonates with me and perhaps it was something that I already had in me that I just needed to unlock and needed this visual representation of.

1:05:13I don't think it goes any further than that. So you don't think that there's an energy that connects everything? Perhaps there's an energy in the sense of that cup representing a story and by having the energy, if you want to call it that, associated with that story transfer onto me, it's put me into this positive spiral um i don't think there's anything more than that i'm not sure i just i just look at those things sometimes i experience stuff and i just go this can't be me man this can't be just me that the synchronicities of life are so crazy yeah and they all fall into place and you just think, how, how does that happen?

1:06:03I don't know. And Oprah Winfrey's quote is, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. And so you might call something lucky, but you've just been doing all the hard yards that are unseen. And that's probably, you could probably label that as preparation. And then you've just been in the right place at the right time for the opportunity to be presented with you and you're prepared to onboard it. Because perhaps if you got told that, right, when you had maybe a job prior to that, that you might've thought was a fucking awesome job, maybe you would have just shut it down and not taken the leap required.

1:06:43Maybe it was a series of events that led you to a position to go, I need to take the leap. How long after that moment did you, did you launch the show and did you go, go in? That month, I knew I was going to leave trigonometry and I wanted to set up my own show. So it was within three months I'd left. I'd made the decision and I'd risked everything. I mean, I was 18 years old. Maybe I'd turned 19 by that point, but I was still living in a flat that I rented from when I was 18 in London, paying rent. And I just went out on a limb, switched from a stable income, a flat at age 18, now 19, risked everything all the connections i'd built up all the great memories i'd made when i left it was all gone and it's just so funny how things fall into place like after that i managed to get freelance work which is you know it earns more but it's risky and a lot of people can't deal with that but if you can and you go out there and hustle you can earn a lot more money so I managed to do that get a couple of jobs and I left my flat and I ended up pulling off this amazing job traveling around with a b2b sass guy vlogging his life for youtube and with that I was able to rent out studios in different places meet you and sort of start the podcast thing and now I've kind of had my second eight cup moment where I've left that too and it's just it's such a weird feeling like I just haven't felt this way about anything else.

1:08:24And without using sort of religiously loaded language, I just feel like I've finally come into alignment with what is my destiny. And everything else means nothing compared to it. I mean, with all of these jobs I've done, leading up to being able to just go full in on the podcast, which I have done now, I started being really shit at them towards the end I started fucking up loads like being awful um I feel awful about it like now I I really feel bad um and I really want to write that one day um but I just couldn't override it like I've never experienced such a lack of agency in terms of one thing except for stopping focusing on something to pursue this well it's if you're performing poorly it's probably a lack of care when you're at school it's not that i can't listen i don't want to listen it's not that i can't do the maths assignment or write the essay on Macbeth.

1:09:36I just don't fucking want to. I don't care about the thing. But that's school. These are the best jobs I could do in the world. No, they're not. Bar one. No, they're not. For someone, they are. They're not for you. Here's the thing. And this is my, I call it the entrepreneurial journey. I think there's an entrepreneurial journey that a lot of people have to go through in order to become their own boss. And it kind of goes a little bit like this. You start in a job and at the start, it's fun. It's your dream job, right? You go, fuck, this is the best thing ever. And so what happens is you're in this new job and it's exciting.

1:10:21You're learning so much more. You're meeting so many cool people. It's what you deem to be amazing and great. But the problem with it is what happens is you get a few months down the line. And unless you progress in that job, the job becomes mundane. When you're a high achiever, you learn very quickly. You adapt things and you're growing so much, especially if you're in your dream job at 18, 17 years old. Think about the rate in which we grow at that age, right? The job now becomes mundane. Every day is the same. You're not growing. You're not making the money that you want. And it's boring. So of course you don't want to fucking do the thing anymore.

1:10:59You're thinking of anything you can do to get out of that job. So then you go, okay, I want to start a business. And you start. And in your version of your business was freelancing. For me, it was a software company. I got investors on board and I'd done that. And then I failed that business. But what I'm getting at here is you then go into a business. What happens is, is you're in a business at the start. It's great. You're learning heaps. You're onboarding more. You're maybe earning more money. But then the problem with it is it's so volatile, so hard. And just so like you're in this state where you just don't really enjoy the thing and you struggle to see it being big and you spending the rest of your life doing the thing.

1:11:39And all you're craving is a little bit of security. Like all you want is just like that little bit. It's so volatile. For me, in my instance, it was like a software company. It was burning cash. It wasn't working. So then what you do is you go and get another job. But this time, you know that, fuck, like this is just, well, maybe you don't even get the job. What happens is you're in this job or in this business, whatever it is, and you quit it. And then you're kind of in the state where you go, I either go back to a job, which I know is going to be shit and I'm going to hate it, or I just bear the pain and figure it, figure it out.

1:12:13And I kind of keep pushing on. and it's kind of this phase where you need to be in a job that was perceived to be a dream job for you to realize that it's a dream job for someone that's not you for you then go out on your own and have that drive like for me i was a 20 year old and i was working in a a sales job i was 19 20 and i was selling alcohol for one of the biggest djs in the world fisher and like you would look at that as someone's dream job it's like oh i'm walking around getting free entry into all these places and being able to have all this fun. I'm making six figures doing it at the same time.

1:12:48I'm a 20-year-old. I get unlimited alcohol and I'm the cool kid of all the fucking nightclubs. It's like that's deemed for some people as a dream job, but it was horror for me. I didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. And so I think it's important to note that the dream job evolves for you based on what you want to do and what you're passionate about. and most of the time we kind of our peripheral opens and our mind opens up a little bit and once we see something we can't unsee it and then it leads us down this rabbit hole and i think it's only a dream job based on the information that you know and as we grow which people like us and and these type a people are growing so quickly that that evolves and we need to be okay with the fact that and be excited with the fact that that is not our dream job anymore and it's time for us to take another leap.

1:13:38I definitely feel guilt about performing way under par the last few months of these jobs, especially when it's people that have invested everything in you because they expect you to stay. I mean, I was often told because I had such clear ambitions, like, oh, I can't wait for you to see this. Like, we're going to support you, blah, blah, blah. But perhaps they expect you to stay a bit longer at least. And it's always going to be painful when it ends. But there's definitely this guilt These people have given me everything and then I've more or less fucked them with the way I've been not doing the work the last few months.

1:14:16And it's not as if I didn't turn up to work and just didn't do nothing, but even just slightly under par for someone that's given you everything and an opportunity that millions of people would want, you feel bad about yourself. You feel guilty. And I hope I can repay that somehow. But I just don't know how it could have gone any differently. You're not a normal person though. And this is the thing is someone that's a business owner needs to recognize that the drive behind someone that's entrepreneurial is not the drive of an employee. And there's a level of agency that needs to be done, had with that.

1:14:53If you hire an entrepreneur to be an employee, they are going to be your best employee for three months. they're not wired in the way of safety they want greater things for them they want to strive they want to progress and there's so many ceilings when it's not your own thing and that's going to be something that you've got to weigh up as a business owner hiring someone for me i am gravitated towards people that are entrepreneurial but i know all my employees can't be entrepreneurial because the churn rate will be through the roof it'll be annoying they're going to want all they're thinking about an entrepreneur in a job is how can i make enough money to leave the fucking job yeah i don't want that culture in my in my team i don't want that and so there is a level of agency saying i hope i can repay them it's going think about the work you probably did for them would be greater initially and so you just kind of have to weigh all of that up right yeah and i think it's important not to think this culture that we have now where it's like i'm a baller on socials i'm doing my own thing we over index on that a lot and we often attribute superiority to those people but it's not an inferior thing to join a company and work in that way it's just a different way that is perhaps harder to flex online but everyone has their own preferences and the world would collapse if we didn't have different people doing different jobs.

1:16:22So I think that's important is not to stress about wanting to be your own boss if you don't want to take the risks. And I think a lot more often people would want to be their own boss because they're very risk averse, they're scared and they should overcome that. But there are some people that just don't want to do it and they'll be completely content working a nine to five or being a plumber working for an agency where they're in-house and they go home to their wife and kids and that fulfills them. I think there's something very beautiful in that too. It's just harder to flex. Yeah. It's that amazing quote, the more I learn, the less I know.

1:17:03The people that can be fulfilled with that just haven't really learned very much because you can't be fulfilled with that when your mind's been exposed to another life. It's very hard. but then again you ask yourself where do you draw the line where where is enough enough and that's another whole rabbit hole in itself because you just wonder you just go when am i when am i going to be when am i ever going to be satisfied but i think what you tie it down to which i think is great um is it's the mission it's the thing that is exciting you like you haven't had your cup filled as much as you have recently it's a good reminder and maybe the results is just a reminder of like it can be hard to just be on your own going I am doing the right thing when you're beating a dead horse but when you get kind of validated it's a it's a reminder of okay all of this work that I believe to be my soul's work is actually a good indicator that it is my soul's work because we are growing and there's people that I trust and respect vowing for me as well yeah well it's the paradox that i spoke about of delusion where external validation is irrelevant and you need to believe in yourself but also like if someone tells you you look bad on a certain day or you look tired um like every time i face to my dad and i've had a long day like last night i got on facetime to him important i keep on chatting to him and he just goes oh you look tired son i'm like thanks dickhead um but it's saying something important and people are good barometers at times of what's right and wrong and you don't want to go all in like fucking gym cell mode fighting your demons hood up then get home work on your laptop not speak to anyone because you know best what's going to be best for your career you don't want to go to that extreme where you just shut everyone off.

1:18:58But equally, people don't know what's going on inside your head and what your makeup is. And you may perhaps have a belief that clashes with what everyone else believes. So it's this paradox of sometimes listening to other people and also knowing where to draw the line. And I don't have a good answer for how you do that, but I think it's something to be aware of. And Peter Thiel, one of the best investors of all time, he always makes his hires based on one key component. And that's people holding a belief that no one else believes. And he gets them to answer this in the interviews. What do you think is going to happen that in 20 years time, we're going to look back on and go, oh, that was cool.

1:19:41And I think that's a sick framing for looking at things like, what are the things that I believe now that people are going to look back on in 50 years time and go, I can't believe it wasn't just mainstream knowledge to accept this. Do you feel like there's a level of pressure that's been onboarded in your life ever since the kind of growth has happened with the social media and the traction you've been gaining online? No, I think it's just more in alignment with the level I hold myself to. Now it's easier. it's like way easier because the views are there on every video the comments are there of people fucking having a minge down um and it's cool like especially for my team where they're not living inside my brain and they're on the mission as well but they didn't set up the podcast initially um it's much easier for them to look at the consequences of their actions um that's not to say they needed it but it's certainly easier for everyone to just go okay this story's going live now and fucking 10 000 people are going to see it we need to be careful here um you need to be careful you don't want to get too careful you don't want to change yourself you don't want to change your ways based on external validation um but i think i'm the 97th percentile for disagreeableness so out of 100 people there would be three people more disagreeable than me so I feel like I don't really need to worry about trying to please other people it's kind of wired into me to not do that so I've got the mission and it's easier to visualize now yeah what about earlier you were saying that you're not even your friends were believing in you when you started out were you noticing that it was just a lack of support from anyone when you were starting out or did you have people that were supporting you

1:21:44I don't know, it's sad. But I've just never felt like anyone's really fully bought into me. And I've had a lot of compliments at times and people going, wow, I can just tell you're going to be successful. But it ends there. It's a one-off compliment and it's lovely. but those closest to me I've never had that it's just been relying on me and trusting in the mission so I don't know it's you kind of have this idea of how things are going to unfold and you're going to have these friends that tell you you're going to do the thing and you're going to bring them up with you and it's going to be great it's going to be a positive spiral but like I just I haven't really had that until now and I feel like I do have that now with a few people and that's nice um this new for me it's a new experience um and it's like where were these people before I had at least gotten off the mark and on one level it pisses me off but also I don't know if I'd change it for anything it's somewhat meritocratic the fact that for someone to extend their arm out to you and help you you have to make the first step yourself and i think that's valid i think it's fair for someone to reach their arm out and help you you need to take the first step yourself so it's it's interesting we don't want it to be that way because when we've taken the step and got to the next level they all come flooding in it's not like a it's not like if we look at a scale of support it's not like it's gradual like this it's like nothing and then and then you drop off a little bit and then it's like back down here and then you get some results and it's like and so you need to build momentum in order to gain support but building momentum is the hardest part of the journey yeah it's like it's an exponential curve of support and then an inverse exponential decline of support so it's infinitely harder to get support uh it's infinitely easier to get support as you go along the journey but you need it at the start and then if you do a fuck up it's infinitely easier for people to stop supporting you straight away and then it kind of plateaus off yeah the when when they are scared of their reputation because of you, even though they have a good relationship with you is an interesting thing.

1:24:31Because like, for example, when all the stuff blew it out, blew out with me, one of my best friends unfollowed me on Instagram and it was because of his page and he was growing and he's in the music industry. So it's very woke and he unfollowed me so that he didn't get in trouble. even though we were like best mates. And it's this interesting thought where I didn't take it personally because, I mean, he didn't, he never even messaged me or anything. His manager did, which is ridiculous because we were best mates. Ridiculous. But I just remember, I remember that going through and I just went, this is so fascinating.

1:25:17You don't get support when you start out. You need to gain momentum in order for you to have support. unless you've got someone that what i find is people can support you if they've walked somewhat of a walk and they can see that you're going to be great like i remember i remember sitting with you in in uh in austin and i was showing like explaining a couple of things in privy clips and stuff it's like you had everything like you were going to do you were going to do great it's like you you've had all of the things in place but it is very hard for people to see that if they don't even know what you're doing, right?

1:25:51You take podcasting for an example, like you're starting this thing. You're like, what the fuck? How do you make money from that thing? And what are you doing? Like what? You're just talking to people, all of this stuff. So I get it. But the hard part is, is you need to gain momentum in order to have the praise. But then when you have the momentum, you're so much more sure on the journey. So you don't need the praise in that point. But then when some sort of conflict gets presented, like say for me, where I share my beliefs that I still believe in and some people don't seem to agree with it. People that still like you as a person get scared that their reputation is going to get jeopardized because of their relationship to you.

1:26:29So then they don't support you. So the only people that are there to support you in the event that you're getting presented with conflict are not there either. And so the only time someone comes to support you is when you don't need their support. But in what scenario are people supporting you when you really need it? Unless they're like very close to you and they have a lot of context, like your wife, which none of us have, or like your, I don't know, maybe your mom, which is unconditional love, you know, but it's hard when you're trying so hard, but no one is even there for you. i wonder if it's possible to get support for the mission you're on ever when you need it i'm sure you can get lucky and someone goes out on a limb and says i'm gonna help you out um but even looking at family members where it's unconditional love it's a love of you as a person not the mission you're on which is the right way around but they're going to go are you sure you want to do this you're such a lovely boy you're my son and maybe you should just go to university and get a degree so it comes down to the fact there's only one person that can support you on your mission and that's you

1:27:57and for that i say fucking good because you're the only person that you can control

1:28:07how powerful is it being able to know that you don't need anyone you're just full everything's a bonus easier said than done but if we can strive towards that can't be broken don't have support fine have support fine shit day fine great day fine easier said than done but why do you expect someone to support you when or cheer you on when they don't know the mission and the mission's not working it's like how do you expect them to support you they don't know what it's like they don't know the challenges of the thing that you're doing. They don't know you're in a rut. Now, we could probably practice some checking in on your mates mentality where we go, fuck, I can see he's giving it a red hot crack.

1:29:12Let's make sure we cheer him on and give him support and help him out while we can. I mean, I wish there was more of that. I could probably do a better job at that too. That would be great. But when it becomes an expectation, that will create resentment when they don't do it. And so maybe it's just a matter of removing expectation and trying to be full within ourself. Yeah, I think you're right. And it's terrifying that it's only you that can do it. But it's also beautiful. I mean, you don't want to worry about things that you can't control. And this is something that you can control. And with that comes worrying and stress and whatever else.

1:29:51But ultimately, fucking good. what are you being cautious of at the moment

1:30:06i think balancing where my focus is um so the the thing about podcasting is there are two elements there's in front of cameras speaking to someone and getting guests by going to events and being super social because this is a social interaction that we are having um and that's you know at the core of it being able to be good in conversation and picking the right guests and i enjoy that more than anything else like when i'm on set having a podcast i feel the most like myself you know this is coming home now and i love the fact that there is a pressure of being in front of the cameras and the lights and the people are going to see it online and with that pressure in an extended conversation rather than just a tv appearance you kind of just default to your most basic instincts and thoughts and intuitions that you formed yourself over the last however many years so people think podcasting's fake and that you're perhaps putting on a show um i think that's certainly true for other media formats where it's more controlled but with this with the pressure comes nothing but your true self um so you've got that element but you've also got the pod cell in his fucking little library of books reading papers and being super autistic um and that is the stuff that then comes out on the podcast right those are the things you've been doing the last few months so i kind of am working out the correct balance because it's important to have dinners with people and like sometimes i'll get an unlock from a dinner with someone that would have saved me three years of going in the wrong direction so that's important then it's also like i need to delete instagram and tiktok and twitter off my phone and snapchat and just sit in a room and read for the day um so cautious balancing that i think if you go either way and And one of my closest friends, and he won't mind me saying this because we joke about it all the time, he just goes like, stop being a fucking consumer, bro.

1:32:14Stop watching podcasts and reading books. You have everything you need internally. I'm like, yeah, that's cool, but what if you're wrong? But I get the point that he's making, and you do need to sometimes block out all the noise. There's a balance. There's a yin-yang to getting external input and also just kind of refining what's already within. Yeah. I would say you have it all within. I think the emphasis here when consuming at excessive levels is to not take things as gospel and be able to just, again, have a really good filter. I want to commend you. I want to say I feel it's been so relieving hanging out with someone that's actually doing something similar.

1:33:03I actually didn't, it's not what I expected. I had no expectation really, but I actually want to do this exercise with you straight after this or tonight or at some point. I think what we should do is figure out the closest path to doing all of the green light tasks and disregarding and delegating all of the red light tasks. Green light tasks being things that light us up, excite us. Red light tasks being things we don't want to do. and uh being in a similar space the same fucking space we can do this collectively and collaborate and get these outcomes but what i want to come up with is and i don't know why i'm saying this on the podcast but i'm doing it anyway they can be like why don't you do the exercise right here um but i think what we need to do is figure out okay what are all the things that we love to do okay i want to be able to read a paper and not feel guilty about reading a paper I want to be able to just do the conversation and I want to fucking thrive at that.

1:34:00And I want to have ample preparation before that. Excellent. What are all the things that green light light us up want to do? What are all the things that we're doing right now that we don't want to do and figure out how we outsource them? What's the most effective route to achieve our goals? And then also how much is it going to cost? Okay. And then we can figure out how we make the money to do the thing or where we prioritize funds X, Y, and Z. but I think it just excites me and it's been really cool spending time with you just from the aspect of like you're hungry and you want to win and you can see it and that's a superpower and I just feel like I've spent so much of my time around people and it's no disrespect to them but it's around people where I need to be my own motivator they're not doing things that are really motivating me to thrive.

1:34:50And I want people that all it comes down to is they love what they're doing. If I can see someone that's so passionate about whatever they're doing, yeah, fucking whatever they're doing, but their eyes light up and they're excited. That will motivate me to do what I want to do and be passionate about the things that I'm doing. But when you've got people that are kind of going through the motions, you might be passionate, but you are the sum of the people you hang around. I don't care what you say. It rubs off on you so much. This is why, Like I encourage people to move out of their fucking home if the dinner conversation is negative because don't have dinner at a negative table.

1:35:25Just don't do it. And I think it's been awesome to be around you because I think for once there's someone that actually gets the mission. Likewise. wise it's been so fun and like even just trivial things like bringing home some chocolate because you felt like it from the shop that sort of impulse hedonism shit um that's something i may do when i'm on my own but then when you've got someone else who's in the gym who's active who's cooking healthy meals and putting in that effort you're never gonna do that and and it's the same with podcasting like yesterday we got up at 5 a.m did guest prep did i did four podcasts then you jumped in did ad reads we did ad reads then we had to have dinner for like the first meal of the day because we've been fasted at fucking 10 p.m yeah 10 p.m then we got back at like 11 we had to edit um a deliverable and like we're sat there in the kitchen after the longest day but like we're in it together we've got our laptops out and like we're doing the fucking thing yeah and it just makes me want to it just reminds me of this idea of like what's the point of doing it alone like there's room for everyone and it's not about not being competitive i think competitiveness is is a superpower yeah and it will fast track your growth when you're in a running race and there's someone in front of you, you run quicker.

1:36:59Right. And so the guy at the front, if the goal is just to win and he's winning by a mile, he's not going to push. Right. And so putting yourself in positions where people are hungry is a superpower. And I just, I just look at it and go like, at the end of the day, there's only one version of each of us. And the ultimate goal is to be extremely authentic. And if we can be extremely authentic, there's no competition. We just need other people that are hungry and driven that get you, that can support you on their own mission. You help them, they help you, we all win. And the biggest thing downstream from that as well is happiness and fulfillment.

1:37:41We've been having so much fun as well, fucking humping the shit out of the kitchen counter and messing around telling awful jokes because you've got the mission that's in place you're being fulfilled by that um and then you can genuinely have this play where it's like the play isn't a distraction from what you ought to be doing because you're slacking on it it's just genuine fun it's a euphoric play though think about like you get to the end of that day and remember when we finished recording here yeah and we're sitting on this table you're like can we just take a moment just to like think about this put legs up on the table.

1:38:17It's a euphoric feeling. And I would encourage anyone that's not feeling that, or that hasn't felt that, or doesn't even see them ever being able to feel that, it's a sign that you're probably climbing the wrong fucking ladder, right? Like you're probably climbing something that you don't even want to get to the top of. For us, we're crystal clear, know what it is. And it's not like, oh, whoa, whoa is me. We're so fucking cool and good. It's not that. It's like all of the time behind the scenes that no one sees where we are questioning the things, where we're wondering if we're doing the right thing, where we've been slammed on our face.

1:38:52No one was watching. We had to get straight back up. When payroll hits our door, I'm like, fuck, that's legit. That's real. Right? When all of these things get presented with us and no one else cares about that fact and we're alone and we've got to figure it out. All of those little challenges lead to a light at the end of the tunnel. and the more challenges there are, the brighter the light. And when you start to see the fucking bell curve go like this, and I say to you, and I know this is going to be the case, you'll be at 50K by the end of the fucking month, at least. And this is the crazy thing that happens.

1:39:23And I have this belief. I said it to you when you had fucking 7K. I was like, I'm going to go from 7K or go to 7K to 50K a month. And it will, because what happens is when you get the momentum, there's this thing that reminds you of, I actually am on the right path. I knew this before, but now I've just been validated of it. It's fucking go time. and it's like, let's sharpen the sword. Let's go. Let's grow and let's win and help other people. And for that, fuck yes. Let's go. Fuck yeah. Let's do it. Let's go. Different style of podcast today. I appreciate you, dude. Thank you so much. If you guys are fucking tuning in, I don't know how long we've been rolling for, but I've loved this.

1:39:59I'm excited. I feel like, you know, I just get fucking geed up by good conversations with good people. And if you guys have made it to the end, screenshot this. If you're still listening, you're not sick of our voice. Screenshot this and tag Elliot and I on your Instagram stories to let us know you've made it this far and you're not sick of our voices yet. And just to let us know that you've enjoyed the show. And we'll personally thank you guys ourself. And leave us a five-star review on Spotify because it will help the show grow, help us keep getting awesome people back on the show. So we're going to sign out.

1:40:28But thanks, Elliot. Appreciate your time. Appreciate you. Bye-bye.