#97: Laird Hamilton: The Mindset of the King of the Ocean

29:58They don't come all the time. It could be one every 10 years that's so special. It could be once in a lifetime. So the patience part of it also makes you a little more, uh, not so foolhardy to just ignore everything every time and just go like you just, at certain times you're like, you know, you could look at the conditions and just be like, yeah, it's not, you know, and I think that part of that It comes from paying when you do ignore. So, you know, when you've been doing it, if you've done it enough times, you know that you've paid when you've ignored. Like when you've just been in denial of like, hey, we're not worried about onshore winds, no problem.

30:37Then you get the longest hold down of your life. And you're like, hmm, maybe we don't want to go out when it's onshore. You know, so you get that. And do you listen to that, right? Do you listen to those things? So I think there's something, um, there's something to be said about that. You know, I feel like, uh, I feel like to, I, my philosophy is, is, is less, uh, like we used to have a couple of sayings. One of them is ride to ride it another day, right? Like ride to ride another day, ride in a way that you can do it again tomorrow and the next day, not don't just ride to, to just like, I'm going to just ride how I want to ride in the sense of like with a risk taking to the point where the wipe out or the crash or the mistake may make may first of all could ruin your psyche forever like there's a real good chance that you could have that which i've i know many that have had it where something happens and you're just never the same so it ruins your psyche because you were just denying the fact that you couldn't make that wave or you did something that you that you know in some other situation whatever it be that you just don't recover from that you just psychologically you're you're forever from that point never the same so uh things like that like okay denial cool but not to the point that that that would push the odds of the potential something happening that may make it so that you can't do it again tomorrow, possibly never do it again the same, you know, anything like that.

32:12So I think that there's a, there's a, and I think the more experience you have, the less denial you have. Yeah. But when you say experience, what's processing in my mind here is experience is one thing, but potentially maturity is a different thing. And the way that you gain maturity is probably through the experience. But what I would even go further, one step further and say is you need to have experienced the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. Kind of like the polarity between the experiences that you've experienced will determine how mature you are. Because if you've only experienced the highs, you're going to be more delusional and more willing to take stupid risks that are uncalculated because you haven't experienced what the bad can happen from it.

32:58But if you've been slammed on your face in a place where you didn't expect to be slammed and then you then progress towards going into another environment where it's maybe similar to where you just got slammed, you're going to have more experience on that matter. And so perhaps it's actually, yes, we need to gain experience, but through time in the seat, it's gaining experiences of all the times you've fucked up, all the times you've got some massive highs and wins, all the times where Gabby's intuition told you no and you did it anyway and then she was right. All of these things kind of add up to a whole kind of your brain now and your decision-making process of going, okay, am I doing this or am I not?

33:38And it's all of that, right? It's all of the, it's all of the, I mean, all of those experiences, because I've had, I've had the low lows, enough of them to know like, hey, will I ever be able to do this again? Can I do it again? Will I, will I ever recover from this injury? Will I, you know, all those things I've had the highs and the successes as well. So, and everything between and in a way, you know, maturity experience. I mean, you just can't, you know, it's also, do you learn from your experiences? Because everybody can, I can take you and me and you and I both have the same experiences, but I remember all the things every time I crashed and what I did and how I did it.

34:20And I'm like, huh. So I adjust to make sure that that doesn't happen. And you could have the same thing. And you'd be like, you'd just go back in and you could do it. you know, you could just go right back in and do those same things again, had you not. So again, it's like, do we learn from them? Do we implement the knowledge that we get from those experiences? Like, are we realistic about the highs, like that you're going to come down off that high and you're going to be depressed? Like, are we aware of that? Like even, even that as an example of, you know, knowing there's post-traumatic, right.

34:51Knowing that you're going to come down off of that thing, when you have, when you ride an 80 foot wave and that, you know, and you come in that you could be depressed for the next, you know, after you come down and then in a week, you might be two weeks or a month depressed, like being aware of that and being like, okay, well, uh, maybe I'm not going to just party and, you know, not take care of myself and do anything and just kind of indulge myself in the depression. I'm going to go the other way and nurture my system and eat good and rest and recover knowing that I'm going to have that. So I think, you know, again, implementing uh, implementing, you know, action around, around experience and knowledge.

35:30Right. I mean, I think that's what maturity is, you know? So I think that that's, is the implementation of, of those things. And so, I mean, you know, I think that the, uh, for me, you know, it's like, I want to, I want to try to be smarter at the end of the day from it because it'll allow me to do it more and do it better. And so in a way, and I, you know, I've done things where, you know, I, one of, one of my worst wipeouts ever was, was, I was frustrated and I just ignored the wave. I just, I saw it and I go, I, I knew I couldn't make it. And I was like, told the guy, just get me on it. And he's looking at me like he knew, he knew I couldn't make it either.

36:10And he just let, he goes, and I'm like, yeah, you know, like, and I just got absolutely annihilated. And, and, And because I was just like, I'm going anyway, kind of because I just had that attitude. And and that and that, you know, and that could have been a that could have been a changing moment. Fortunately, it wasn't, but it could have. And then also back to what we were talking about before, which is, are you discouraged by these failures? Have you had enough of them? I mean, I've had so many injuries in my career since I was young that I get good at recovery. I get good at, and I get good at the process of the psychological process of, you know, can I will be able to do it again?

36:51Will I do it as good as I could do it? And all that stuff that goes through your brain when, you know, cause injury is failure. So I look, when I go, I've gone, I've gotten good at failure. Like I'm good at failure. Like, okay, failure. Okay. Success, failure. Okay. Success and getting good at that process. And I think that's something that, uh, at least it's helped me in my, in my pursuit is where I see other guys that have only had success. only had success, only had success. And then they get a failure derailed, like just can't, just all of a sudden they're just like, and I'm thinking, oh, it's just one of the potholes on the road.

37:24I've been running through those things for, you know, like, it's like normal, like here we are again in this, at this stage of injury, hurt, getting better, you know, start to do it, getting, you know, and again, it goes back to belief, you know, it's that psychology. It's like, if you don't if you let doubt win then there's no way to you know come back can you tell that story of that massive wipeout that you just were mentioning there was the filming of uh point break two it's a surf movie not a surf movie but it's point breaks a famous movie and in the movie um if people don't know the movie the the bad guy instead of going to jail is going to go out and ride a wave, uh, to die on pretty much.

38:11It's like his way to like, it's like his suicide wave more or less. And I was out in the water at a, at a break, um, where they were filming that I just happened to be, it was my home break and I hadn't been there in a long time. And, uh, and, uh, I, I was just free surfing and, and, and I, and I had, I was a little frustrated because like I said, I hadn't been there in a long time. And, and, uh, and it was, it was, it was a, uh, substantial swell at Jaws on Maui, that famous big wave there. And there was just a, a huge wave that had a big, like had a huge end on it. And normally I would see that wave.

38:55I wouldn't even look at it. I just, I'd go back out and wait for another one. And that didn't have that, that, you know, that dead end didn't have a dead end on it. And this one had a big dead end on it. And I just was like, and my friend was like, looking at me, like, like we don't go on those waves. Like we, you know, again, back to the denial part, like we're never in that much denial. We're not denying what the wave's doing. We're like, no, that wave is just going to be, you know, you're going to, there's just, you're not going to make it. And I just, you know, just my attitude and go take, you know, put me on it.

39:31And he put me on it. And, uh, And I went and then the thing started to build in front of me and there was just no way in the world I was going to make it. So I turned down in front of it and the way it broke behind me, it blew me up. Like it was like, it was like stepping on a mortar or something like that blew me into the sky. I just remember flying through the air and then taking a breath. Because anytime you're in the sky, you just, it's always good to take a breath because there's air there. There's no air underwater. So when you're flying through the air, always take a breath because, you know, the next thing is you're under and you wish you had one.

40:05So I took a breath through the air and I just remember getting, I probably would have broke my back if I didn't have a big flotation device on because when it folded me so hard, but the flotation kind of stopped me because I had this like big, big flotation. And, and, uh, that stopped me from getting, I, like I said, probably would have busted my back. Um, but I got blown through the air and then just run over by, you know, it felt like, like a dump truck or something ran me over it and folded me in half. And, and then my friend came in all big eyed, like, you know, am I okay? And, uh, I was okay.

40:40But, but again, it was just, that was the, you know, that was that, that kind of my attitude. I just, I'm going to go like regardless of, even though I know it's not going to, I'm somehow, I'm, I don't know what I was thinking. I was thinking maybe I was, you know, I could outdo it, you know, outdo the, I'm going to outdo the obvious. I'm going to out, you know, I'm going to somehow navigate a thing that's, you know, unnavigatable. Dive deeper. Why did you go on that wave? Like if you knew it wasn't. There was no chance. If I knew there was no chance, but I still went. it was a little bit like a, like a screw it moment.

41:21Like just, I'm just going to go anyway, like kind of like a, like a defiance. It was like a defiance that had come, that came out of me this to, uh, that doesn't happen often. I think it was kind of a buildup. I hadn't been back to that wave in a long time. I came there and the surf was, you know, big and not, not perfect it was a little frustrating me the waves the swell was frustrating and because of the way the wave was breaking it was not doing its thing and so i think it was like a it was like a perfect storm you know just the all those pieces my frustration the fact that the waves weren't as good and then it was just like a it was more it was like a defiance like i just did a you know uh i had a defiant moment to the ocean like i'm going to defy her you know i'm going to defy her right now.

42:12And I defied her and I got, I got, I got, I got pancaked. It seems equivalent to suicide. A little bit, maybe, maybe a little bit, a little bit of, a little bit of that kind of, like in, I mean, in another, in another situation, if I was a base jumper or some other guy, you know, some other thing, or maybe just didn't have my training and my experience and all those, you know, all that stuff. It, it could, it was somewhat suicidal. I would say that. Yeah. I think there was an aspect to suicidal, you know, that doesn't happen often with me, if any, if ever really. So it was, it was, it was a little, it was just one of those moments.

43:02I just wonder, I am so curious about what goes on in your mind there. Cause, cause when I speak to, I mean, I spoke to this guy called James Carew. He's like the best kite surfer and he does these, he surfed the biggest wave at wherever it was. Probably Nazare. Yeah. He did like some Nazare wave. And when in Nazare, when the waves crash in the bay, they shut the, you know, like boats out there or something like this. When, when the waves start crashing in the bay where the boats normally are, they, they shut it down. Yeah. And it was one of those days and he was like, fuck it. I'm just going to go out on my kite by myself.

43:42Yeah. And, uh, goes out and catches this like 124, like the biggest wave someone's ever caught before on this kite surf. And, um, I just look at these sort of decisions. I mean, maybe that one's a bit calculated, but at the same time, you don't know what's going on out there. Mother Nature is going to humble you in any way, shape, or form like you're explaining. And I just struggle to wrap my head around this thought of wanting to do that or wanting to catch the wave, even though you know you probably aren't going to make it out of the wave. It just seems like you're playing with death a little bit.

44:18Do you think about death and mortality? And do you ever have thoughts around that concept and that topic? Well, I don't want to die. Yeah. I definitely don't want to die. I mean, I think we have it built into us. I mean, I think we have a biological mechanism to not want to die. Otherwise, we'd be all dead. But I'm not scared of dying. I don't look at like, I don't think about, but my faith gives me that, right? So I'm not like, I don't think death is the end. And we're all going to. and I promise and we don't know the time or the place. I don't want to speed it up but I think that there's, you know, I think that death is, I mean, death is a reality and I think that if you're too scared of dying then you don't live.

45:21You know, I think that if you're just avoiding death in any way possible. I think you just can't live. I think you just don't live. You don't get to live. And so it doesn't mean, it doesn't mean that, you know, you're just, you just are ignorant or just not, doesn't mean, it doesn't mean you don't look both ways when you cross the road. Like, I mean, because you can, dying's easy actually. I mean, it's not very hard. All you do is just step out in front of a car and it's done. I mean, so, you know, I always say living's hard, dying's easy. People, I'm so, um, and, and, and I think you can push it.

46:06You know, I, I've, in my life, I've known a lot of, uh, extreme guys that passed away, you know, sky surfers, base jumpers, climbers. I mean, people that I know, personal friends that I've had that were pushing the edge of, uh. on that edge and on the only way they're pushing so hard that, that the only way was really to, that there, there were, there, there were the end, the conclusion was going to be that they were going to die doing it, doing what they were doing. Um, and I, and I, you know, myself, um, I won't say that, you know, I won't say that, that, that I have quite that same thing. I don't, I don't think I do.

46:50Uh, when I look at them and I, you know, I, what do they say? there's old and bold, but no old, bold pilots. And so for me, I feel like there's a calculation to it. I could say on that day, I didn't, you know, but I've wiped out a lot of giant waves, right. In my life. And, and, uh, and you know, that it could always be the one, right. It could always be the one that, that gets you, but, uh, but, but a lot of the variables that happen in that environment are, are, uh, reduced through experience and skill. I mean, you know, it is experience because you on a 20 foot wave is safer than someone that doesn't know how to surf on an eight foot wave.

47:35Or safer than somebody who doesn't know how to swim in my swimming pool. Yeah. So, so again, so I think there is some of that. I think there's some of that, like, this is an environment that I have spent so much time in, that I have so much experience in. Um, I was wearing a flotation device. I mean, I mean, I got a jet ski with a guy to pick me up. I mean, it's like, I have all these things. I have techniques for straightening out when the waves big that, that help, you know, you get out of the, you know, the, where the, where the worst explosion is. And I mean, on that day and that way, particular wave I did, I did, um, you know, and that's part of it too, is the pushing.

48:10Sometimes it's like, where is the, where is the, where's the edge, you know, and, and, and how, you know, where is it? You guys, sometimes you have to dangle over for a second to go there it is otherwise do you is it really the edge like oh i'm pushing the edge i'm pushing the edge i are you are well did you hang off the side of it yet no well then maybe you're not really on the edge yet so i think there's something in there too like what is that edge and i mean i feel like in the environment that i do that i've been able to do my stuff in it's it's one that i uh that eliminates a lot of like hey if my chute doesn't open i splat I die hey if my car blows up I die like I mine is a little bit uh more of an environment of you know of uh I feel like I'm swimming I'm wearing flotation devices I'm doing some stuff that my skill can actually get me out of all the skill in the world doesn't get you out of falling out of a plane without a shoe you're gonna hit you're gonna die it's just I don't care.

49:11Your skill doesn't allow you to fly. My skill, most of my skill can allow me to swim to the surface and get air and know into the thing and normally do the right thing on the wave to be in the right position, even when it's bad. And then you have the grace of God and the protection of angels and all those other things that I try not to tap into as much as I can. I really need it because I don't want to abuse that because at a certain point they might be like ah this guy says he doesn't learn it's it's it's more it's more calculated I understand I like the analogy of it's equivalent to someone that doesn't know how to swim in a pool but you're probably more safer because you've done it time and time again I get that you've mentioned God spirituality in terms of like gabby's intuition and you've touched on a few pieces like this that you lean on what sort of a role does spirituality have in in your life and what makes you want to trust gabby's intuition what role does spirituality have in my life guardrails uh north compass true north you know guidance like conduct um how i treat people um how i treat myself how i treat my children um all of it like the the you know that's i mean that's the you know that's the that's the that's the thing that that uh that's the blueprint for, you know, conduct to help me, you know, reduce the traumas of being a human on earth.

51:17Why though? Like, do you, do you know why is, I'm imagining that you have a level of trust in whatever this source is that you believe in. But do you know why? Like, why does, does, does, believing in God and spirituality help you treat people better, help you go through life easier? Because I've had success. Because I've had success through doing it. I've seen that I know the difference between not doing it and doing it and the results of not doing it and the results of doing it. You know, when I talk about Gabby's intuition, why does that, why do I trust in that? because I've seen when I don't trust in it and I've seen what happens.

52:02I look at other people and I watch people live lives certain ways and I go, huh, that doesn't seem to work out so well. Let me go over here and let me try this. And then it's an instinct. It's a, you know, if you said why, I'd say I have an instinct. I have a feeling. I can feel it. I can sense it. It's written inside of me. It's inside of my heart. I can feel like, hmm, if this feels right, that feels wrong. Uh, and, and, you know, and, and, and it's invisible. It's invisible. And, and by the way, that's the hardest thing to do. That's the hardest. And all, everything good is hard. All these things are hard, like being married for 30 years and raising children and trying to be in shape and, you know, trying to master a skill.

52:55This is hard stuff. This is not just like, huh, you know, this stuff's so simple. Like, so the fact that there's a difficulty in it too tells me, tells my instincts that it's, this is worth doing. This is worth the challenge because everything I know that's difficult seems to have great rewards, seems to be the most rewarding things that we do. All the things I've done that are hard are very rewarding. and either they were, you know, for the moment hard, like, Hey, I'm going to paddle for, to that Island from this Island. And it was hard. I was rewarded when I got there and I was like, wow, that was, you know, it sucked, but that was worth doing.

53:40And, and the feeling I got from doing it. And that was just compressed. And then when I think about life and extended, then I look at that and I go, yeah, sometimes it'd be easier just to do that and say what you want to say and act how you want to act and do all that stuff. But somehow I've seen how that works out. Personally, I watched how it works out with other people. I'm like, it doesn't seem to be working out so well. Let me try this other thing. And it seems to work out a lot better continuously every time. And so through the experience, through the invisible belief, the faith, the intuition, I think there's so many, you know, I mean, somebody asked me, well, you know, how do you know God exists?

54:28And I go, too elaborate. And they say, what do you mean too elaborate? I go, look, just look, look around the world, look at everything, look at the plants, look at the ocean, look at people, look at this, look at how elaborate this thing is, this place, this system. I mean, I just think about what I get to do. I get to ride a board on a wave. Where'd that come from? Like, where'd that shit come from? Like, who thought that up? Because it wasn't me. Like, somebody, something thought up this whole concept of you're going to take this thing and stand on it and be able to ride the energy that's traveling through water.

55:06Oh, okay. Like, I mean, that's not a human construct. That's not a, like, who's the architect, right? Who's the designer of that? just that act alone specifically never mind all the you know too elaborate it's just this it's just too elaborate for me at least for me personally to be to to to look at it any other way i'm just like it's too elaborate like the trees and your immune system and the thing and the animals and the the way that just the sun right it's all come on let's let's you know you got to be you got to be blind deaf and dumb to not at least be aware of that because it's just right in your face it's like you take walk out your door open your door and take a look and then spend five minutes and watch the hummingbird buzz by your head watch the sunrise in the morning watch the lightning storm go in the ocean right away go to the mountains snow go snowboard down a mountain riding a helicopter it's like okay yeah sure just random acts yeah the thing is we were monkeys but now we're in helicopters good job no i'm just saying that i'm just saying i'm like oh yeah sure like what what what are you on like what what are you on to think that that somehow that's just random that we thought it up like so so i go to i think it's it's all of that i think it's all of that it's all those things that's the best response i've ever heard from a spirituality because most most people that i speak to not most people i shouldn't say this But a lot of people you speak to about spirituality, they don't have any common sense, whereas you've just turned spirituality into common sense.

56:46It's supposed to be easy. Either way, it's supposed to be easy. We make it difficult. We make it complicated. We're trying to complicate it. Just strip it away. It's simple. It's supposed to be easy, but at the same time, the reason it's special is because it's hard. That's worse. And this is what I love here. It's as stoic as it gets, right? Like, yeah, the harder it is, the more valuable it becomes. But I've never heard it in that way. Believing in a God is a hard thing. So there's got to be something in that. Got to be something in it. Seems like everything else is hard. There's something in it.

57:21Yes. See, I love the approach of like, the harder something is, the more valuable it kind of is. And most of the time, the harder something is, the less people will embark on it, the more valuable that thing becomes because you're in a rare breed of people that have the thing. But in the context of a God, and remove religion from this, it's more so just... You have to, because man has to play with it. Yeah. And I just love this frame of going, it's not easy to access and believe. And what I'm trying to unpack here as well is when you can embody it, it's a bit easier. But getting there is a bit harder.

58:02someone that hasn't been brought up with any spirituality in their life kind of has to go through a fair bit of shit to even somewhat reach that level of being able to have trust that there is something greater you can't just like say that the intuition is valuable and you should listen to it if you've not kind of had the experience of that and people telling you that it's you're like shut up you just like that's not right um and so i think it's quite a profound thing to be able to I guess have it in that way of going it's hard there's got to be something in that and and like like look at all of the most valuable things you have in your life whether it's the marriage whether it's the kids the children you brought up the mastering a craft you look at all of the things that fulfill you the most they give you the most joy they were fucking hard to get you you didn't just click your fingers and get those things or else they wouldn't be valuable.

58:57And it's inspired even myself to lean in more to that thought of it's, it's mentally challenging the spiritual thing. It's, it's not a physical challenge. It's a mental journey and it's hard. And so leaning more into that, but keeping the common sense in, in, in it is going to be really powerful. And, um, I think the way you've worded that is awesome. You mentioned just before about the, the, The only thing above riding a big wave that fulfills you is your family. And that's about it. But aside from that, the riding of that big wave is the thing that gives you the most joy. Why is that? Because when I was speaking with Jamie O 'Brien and I asked him what his happy place was, he's like just being in a massive barrel.

59:45And he was explaining this, the feeling he gets, but I couldn't truly understand why that was his happy place. But for you, is the water your happy place or is there something else that's greater? Well, listen, I think what the wave, riding the wave or being in the barrel or what that represents, at least, is where you leave. I mean, sex isn't bad. You know?

1:00:19talk about a barrel but you're like okay well you know like you know like i mean you want to tell you it's like hey is there other play i go yeah well so but uh you know in all honesty what a gift the uh

1:00:40the pinnacle of manliness you are man but the the uh but you but you know what it is about okay so you could say either of those subjects i'm riding a wave and uh that it's in it's the most in the moment that you are the most present you are it's that you're never more present in the, in, in both of those situations, you know, you're never more present and you kind of leave self behind. You leave you behind and you become part of, you know, when you become part of you, it's like, you know, they always, everybody's always, you know, everybody's the swamis and the guru. Oh yeah. Living in the moment, live in the moment.

1:01:23There's nothing more in the moment. Like when you're on a giant wave, you are, you are in the moment like you're and you're part of you know everybody oh you conquer a big wave you don't conquer a big wave the wave allows you to be on it and you sir and if you can survive it congratulations but it's you're just part of it right and you could say intimacy was similar thing too you're just part you become part of each other at that point okay maybe before and after there's some confusion or whatever but but in the in the act but i think that that's really uh what we seek out because you don't have all this exterior.

1:01:58There's a beautiful saying, which is, you know, if you live in the past, you're depressed. If you live in the future, you have anxiety. And if you live in the moment, you have peace. And I think there's a peacefulness in that moment, in just in the moment. Because maybe that's all there really is. Maybe there only is the moment at the end there is no future there is no past there only is the moment and is the moment moving but it's still it's only the moment like and so i think that there's that i think when you you know i know for me when i'm on a wave and i'm i'm really on a wave that's challenging enough that's that doesn't allow me to have any exterior uh you know noise nothing i'm just it's there's nothing right in in and being inside the of a of a way being in the tube is does that very well going very fast down a giant wave is is exactly the same way it's just everything's just so everything is all uh you know everything is just all right present it's just present you have this present i think that that i think that that's where the spirit feels the most comfortable I think that's when the spirit is actually the most comfortable because maybe that's where we end up and that's where we always are.

1:03:17And so we're getting a glimpse into that. I'm not sure. I don't know enough about that to know, but I know that there's something in it. Like why are we so drawn to it? Why are we every waking minute thinking and how do I, you know, everything's trying to get to that moment? um the this is a fascinating insight so i guess anyone's happy place is where they can access peace i would think i mean if you're a guru or if you're a you know a jedi master on top of a mountain and you can access peace just in sitting in the lotus position in a little rock hut i mean that mastery took a lifetime and you had you couldn't have a family and you couldn't do the thing and all you did was just do that and they're in peace.

1:04:06But, but I, I, I, there is something in that, right. There is something in accessing peace. Like there's, there's a peacefulness. Now it could go from peacefulness to pure chaos in one second, right. Two, because they're probably right next to each other. Like peace and chaos are like, right. You know, chaos and peace they're right one's right and one's left it's in the you're in the same place but uh but it's something in that because i know that that that that is all consuming right and it's interesting because people go what's it like to ride a big wave and i go it's hard to explain that like to really explain like how do i explain to you what it's like to be in the moment yeah there's there's a there's a that's the peace the peace what comes straight off to peace is chaos it's like you're in a massive wave you're accessing peace you get tumbled you're in chaos instantaneous you're having sex you're in peace you then have a kid you're in chaos yeah exactly oh no you are yeah I always tell my friends, my younger friends, I go, it's all fun and games until you have to name it.

1:05:23Where does all of the materialistic stuff play a role in your life? We're in this massive home in a beautiful part of the world. People dream of being able to live in a place like this. what's kind of all of the materialistic amazing stuff like the houses and the cars and and all of that done for you do you feel like it's played a role in your life or added much to you well i have a wife and three daughters and they like that stuff so we'll just leave it at that

1:06:09I mean, you know, you give me a truck and a dog and a, you know, something to ride away with and a, you know, place to put my head and some good food. I mean, I won't, I won't, uh, I wouldn't say I don't appreciate cars that start, you know, like cars that run. And if they're newer, they run better, you know, stuff like that. It's cool. And if you have the money to be able to go out and buy really good food, that's nice. Like, so I think for me, it's more about that. It's more about being able to, you know, hey, if you're hurt, you can actually go to a doctor that can help you and those kind of things.

1:06:41I mean, I look at it more like a tool. Like those are tools for me. Like, hey, if I have this, I can get the thing I need to go do the thing I want to do. And so, I mean, I wear slippers and surf shorts most of the time. I put a shirt on for you. You know, that's about the extent of it. But with a collar even, no. But the, yeah, I mean, I'm, I mean, I grew up not, I mean, we, we didn't, my family was poor in the sense of my mom, you know, like we had food, we were on food stamps for a while. I used to have, you know, a couple, couple pairs of clothes that we bought in the beginning of the year for the school year.

1:07:16By the end of the school year, they were pretty shot. So, but it's, you know, it's not, um, I'm thankful to, to be able to afford the, you know, like I said, good food thing. I can go to my, you know, I can go down and fill my car up with gas. I don't have to just put$2 in for$5 to get me to the next thing. So things like that, like I like to get, I'm glad that I don't have those burdens. I grew up with those burdens. My family had those burdens. And so, and those can be burdened, you know, but I'm, But it's not, for me, it doesn't make me me. It doesn't change who I am. Like, I'm, it doesn't, my, you know, my monetary stuff, this table, the car, that doesn't, I'm me.

1:08:10I'm good. I can be just me in my shorts on the street. I'm me. And so it's not, it doesn't, it has no bearing on my, uh, on my value, on my, on my, on my intelligence, on my, on me. It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't somehow make me better than any other person. It doesn't make me smarter than anybody. It doesn't make me, it has, you know, little to no effect on, on that other than, like I said, it eliminates some of the burdens that if you're, you know, if you're working, you know, all day long, every day, just to, you know, make, be able to afford the rent, you know, that, that's, I mean, that's a, that, that challenge is, is something that, that I'm fortunate that I don't have to deal with, but I still deal with it on another level.

1:09:05Like you're, you do, there's no way you don't deal with it. So no matter how much people get, first of all, it never brings happiness. Cause I, I know a lot of people that, that, I mean, we're the poorest people we know kind of thing. Like in, in our, you know, I mean, we, I, I shouldn't say that cause that's not true, but, but the, you know, I know a lot of affluent people that are miserable and I'm like, money didn't bring them any happiness, didn't make their relationship better, didn't make their family better, didn't make them healthier, didn't. So at what point is it so important? Like at what point does it become so important that it has no effect on any of that?

1:09:46And then getting you into heaven, you know, it's not going to, you know, it's like, I mean, okay, where is it? Like as long as I can buy a couple of jet skis, fill them up with gas, have a truck that can pull them, you know have some equipment eat good be able to make sure that i can you know take care of the girls which is a lot more complicated

1:10:11so i wonder how you access that mindset because i feel like it's easier said than done there's a couple of pillars here someone that hasn't made the money i don't think has the right to say that Because the character you build on the way is the actual thing that's valuable. The person that you are from going through this journey of making the money and building the career and the life that you have is what makes the money valuable, right? It's harder to obtain the level that you've done. And for someone to just not embark on the journey in the first place because someone says it doesn't make you happy, I don't think is not the answer, right?

1:10:46And we all know this. but a lot of the time it can consume people making money it's shiny objects you can buy all the fancy things but as you sit here you can have this really awesome approach of being like i barely even put a shirt on yeah and so where do you think you've got that mindset from and has it always been there or did you have to go through something to realize that well first of all i want to make it clear that that you know somebody could say easy for you to talk smack because you're sitting And you have a beautiful house and, you know, you have your, you know, you have a level of success.

1:11:19So, of course, you can say it doesn't mean anything because you have it. And so when you have it, it's easy to say it doesn't mean anything. But I think, and it's one thing that both Gabby and I both have in some, in, in that were similar, which is our value system. Right. And so I, I was, I've always been generous when I had nothing. I was deadness. and I try to continue to be generous if I have something. So for me, I feel, and all that having something does is allow me to be more generous. And so in a way, and I think both her and I, our values are pretty aligned that way. Like we're aligned in the having faith that you'll be taken care of.

1:12:04You know, there's the great book says, you know, I feed the birds of the field. You know, why don't you think I'll feed you? you of little faith. You know, it's like, I'm feeding the birds, man. I'm going to feed you. You're going to be okay. And I think we, we, we've, we've made this a culture and a society. First of all, we have the ad man. All he does all day long, every day is just tell you, if you just get this, you're going to be happy. No, no, but you just got to get this. No, but you just got to get that. You got to get the new one of these and then you're going to be happy. Well, you got to get this other one.

1:12:35You know, it's like, there's no end to it. So there's an emptiness in that pursuit, right? So to try to fill that hole, like, what are you trying to fill the hole with? You have a hole in your, in your body or in your spirit, you have a hole and you're trying to fill it and people are trying to fill it with things, money and things and all that stuff is like that hole doesn't get that things doesn't fill with that. You got to fill that with love community. You know, I mean, it's like you could have money or no money still got to work out. you still got to work out you still got to try to eat good you still got to do you still got to do these things so it's just no one's above it right no one's above the the being a human you still got to get a good night's sleep right you still got to drink water you still got to breathe air you still got to do all these things and so in a way no matter who no matter which one you are so in a way i think that that's you know and i think because uh you know my mom was a generous lady My mom was a super hard worker.

1:13:33She like, it was just an animal and, uh, worked hard to support us. You know, I said, I always said my mom raised a few children. I mean, uh, a few men and two sons, you know? So, uh, but she worked hard, her values, uh, you know, Gabby and I have, uh, aligned values in our, in our belief of the importance of it. You know, we, we, we are friends and the people we like affluent are not affluent, um, has nothing to do with affluence. It has to do with the people, like what kind of people are they, you know? And it's, I mean, in Hawaii, we have a great saying, you know, it's not who you are, it's how you are.

1:14:15And so we don't care who you are. I don't care. You come in, you're done, but if you're, but you're cool. And the fact is there are a lot of very good people that are successful, right? Because there's some things about the success that they're the kind of people that were successful because of these certain things, this discipline, the thing, all those respect, whatever, just all the – and there's plenty that aren't. I'm not going to say that too, but, but yeah, I think for us, uh, you know, we're, we're again, thankful to, to have the, uh, affluence that would, that we have. And you know, that, like I said, just, it's a tool, it's a tool that allows you, you know, it's like, I have a, I have a company that makes products that are good for you, that are good.

1:15:05They're healthy and they're good. And the more successful that company is, the more people I can help. the more good I can do. So there's something in that too, as well. It's just about the perspective of, uh, you know, the good book says you can't serve God, you know, and, and mammon, you know, you can't serve money and God, like there's a thing, like it's your whole thing, you know, money, money driven. It doesn't mean that you, you know, don't have bills as an expensive world to be in, you know, children are expensive thing. Just everything's gases, just everything's expensive so you know it's profound that this distinguishment between success and values is quite profound there's no amount of money there's no amount of cars nice houses amount of sex amount of people you have around amount of success that you achieve no amount of all of those things will fix your broken values will not they will not will not If your values are off.

1:16:10If anything, it'll make it worse. Because it will just amplify your negative values. It'll just amplify. It'll amplify. It'll actually make it worse. Or in some cases, better, because then you'll actually see. Yeah. It won't be so confusing, right? You'll see a lot. You'll be a lot clearer. You'll be like, oh, that's the real guy. Yeah. And so if you have all of these things, but your values are broken, an indicator of this is probably why do I have no one around me? Why does no one want to hang out? Why does my head hit the pillow when I'm filled with noise? Why can I have all of the stuff that's deemed to be successful, but I still feel empty?

1:16:49It's like the success is nothing if your values are broken. If anything, the success with broken values will just elevate your broken values. Yeah, because you thought it was going to cure your broken values by getting more because that's what the world's made you believe. So you thought, oh, that's going to cure me, right? No, they're broken. Like you got to fix those, but they think, oh, those are going to get fixed by this. Because if I just get enough of this stuff and I have all this stuff that that's going to fix it is actually, and then you do that. And then not only is it not fixed, but then you did everything to get it, which probably means you probably did even more bad shit.

1:17:28You know, you probably broke it. You devalued yourself even more to, in order to get that, because at a certain point, there's a certain level that people get to get this when they have that greed or whatever that is that need to just accumulate to the point of just beyond even what's real what's necessary it's like way past what's necessary then then they then they they usually have to do something nefarious yeah there's usually something something nefarious something something definitely against the spirit yeah and and you're probably avoiding the spirit in pursuit of that because the spirit's fucking hard to access as we spoke about.

1:18:09Hard to access. Profound stuff. I appreciate your time, man. Yeah. What's exciting you at the moment? What's something that you're working on? The ocean. The ocean? Yeah, yeah. I got some pursuits in the ocean. What are you doing? I'm writing foils. I'm writing, you know, I'm foiling. Foiling's become so big. And so I'm just, I have some kind of some big, you know, you know what I tell you? I, for me, I like an elusive, uh, goal. So I like a goal that you're pursuing that right when you get to it, just kind of moves a little bit so that you're always in pursuit. Like it's like, it's always aloof.

1:18:48I mean, I think that I've been blessed to have that, you know, and I don't know if it's what came first, the chicken or the egg, but I just know that that's because it's, you know, where they say it's, it's not the destination, it's a journey. And so when you're always in pursuit. Like if I'm always in pursuit of something, that means you're always striving, which means, Hey, I'm working. I'm, I'm, you know, I'm taking care of myself. I'm doing, I'm doing everything I need to do to try to, to try to get there. So it's elusive, but I I'm, you know, the ocean's a big ocean. There's a lot of crazy things to do.

1:19:17And, and this new way that we're riding waves is opening up a whole new frontier. So there's a lot of, um, I like doing what I haven't done before. That's, I've noticed that that's throughout my life. It's just, I'm continuing to just do what you've done over and over and over is less interesting. I think at a certain point, it just becomes, and part of it has to do with, it becomes monotonous, but a part of it has to do with that the end, you know, when you're polishing a stone, let's say you're polishing a stone, it's hard at the very end, you're polishing for a long time and you see little results.

1:19:52So when you get to a certain level at any discipline, you start to plateau and then you're just you're polishing but you can barely see the results when you're early in this curve when you're in the beginning of that curve it's steep and you get a lot of improvement and a lot of success and i like those early early to mid to late stage parts of the curve when it's steep as soon as that thing levels out it's just like it's like you know and sometimes i think ego will keep us there because we don't like to be beginners. We don't like, we like to be skilled and be like, I'm the best at this and dah, dah, dah.

1:20:29And like, you know, and kind of sit on our morals that I find that less interesting. I think I find what more interesting is again, pursuing things I'm not, haven't done things that new and different and that, but if I can use existing experience, so it's not just a waste and I'm not just, Hey, I'm going to take a piano now. And if I, well, no, you're a surfer and you ride waves, this piano thing, I mean, which would be probably really good for me. And I probably should do that. I have a short attention span. It's not physical enough, but, but I like, I like, you know, taking existing experience and being able to do something new.

1:21:04And so I'm not just wasting all that, all that, those years of experience. Yeah, well, I guess it's this thing around a lot of us tie our happiness towards the progression. And so when you progress towards mastery, the more you progress towards it, the less you can progress because you've kind of filled a lot more pieces of the puzzle. And the problem with wanting to achieve mastery, but then also wanting to progress is the more you get towards mastery, the less you can progress. So if your happiness is tied to the progression, the more you achieve towards the goal, the less happy you will be.

1:21:36and so this is this slippery slope right because because we want mastery of course but we want to progress of course and i'm trying to do both yeah hence why you're trying to be mastery with progression yeah i'm mastering i'm progressing i'm mastering yeah which you try to drag that that's why i said that's why i'm trying to drag the thing pursue it but then but then make it different enough so there's not mastery there's still open open end but then i'm not fully at the you know yeah bottom of progression yeah yeah yeah matthew mcconaughey talks about like he needs to have someone to strive towards and he talks about the person you strive towards is his hero and his hero is him in 10 years okay and he's like i don't ever want to achieve my hero because imagine if i achieve the hero then what oh yeah and it's like yeah if my hero is always 10 years away then i always have someone to strive towards and i think that's what you're explaining it's It's like the alchemist talks about the book.

1:22:34The alchemist is this little boy searching for the treasure. I know it will. Yeah. And he realizes that. I've heard it happen a few times. Yeah. But he realizes. Search the world. And you find it was in your backyard. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's just this whole thing around. It's actually not about the treasure. In fact, I don't ever want to find the treasure. Like the goalposts keep extending for a reason. Yeah. So we have something to keep going and striving towards. Absolutely. Um, and then I'll see that happens in a lot of professional athletes and a lot of other things when people achieve their goal early problem, big problem.

1:23:09Like, okay, I'm going to do it and you achieve it and then, okay, now what? And then you're like, I don't know. And you're like, like where if you don't, and then you're pursuing so much healthier, so much better, just, just more, just, just, just easier to D to easier to try easier to drive. just like you just it's easy it's an easier path yeah then then uh okay now what and then you're like oh that that's never good that's never good yeah i appreciate you man thank you so much um my pleasure that was thanks for coming that was awesome well it's funny i was literally up on the hill which was perfect but uh i appreciate you yeah there is a reason everything's perfect divine and right on time yes sir and uh yeah i'll leave all of your details in the show notes description below is there anything you you want to promote i mean you got your supplements in fact i actually had some of your creamer yeah it was at hunter's house and i had it on my coffee yeah um and yeah you guys are doing awesome things so thank you um i'll leave all of your details in the show notes description below so everyone can go and check you out i'll have gabby send you the stuff but i'm uh i'm thankful appreciate you dude aloha thank you thank you so much we're signing out we'll see you guys very very soon bye-bye aloha hey it's ryan reynolds here from int mobile now i was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month is back.

1:24:33So I thought it would be fun if we made$15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12 month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms.