How a Trump-Endorsed Republican Could Become California’s Next Governor

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3:08You're listening to The Political Scene. I'm David Remnick. Early each week, we bring you a conversation from our episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC and The New Yorker. Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Now, if you've been following news about the midterm elections coming this November, you may have heard a very confusing story coming out of California. The polls are shifting all the time, and Eric Swalwell, the leading Democrat, recently dropped out, following accusations of rape and sexual assault, charges that he denies.

3:51But it seems that the leading candidate in the California governor's race right now is a Republican, endorsed by Donald Trump. His name is Steve Hilton, a British-born political consultant and a former Fox News host. Now, you may have been puzzled by that since Democrats outnumber Republicans in California by no less than 20 percent. And Trump is deeply unpopular there. Partly, Hilton's modest lead in the polls may result from California's unusual primary system and the chaos of the general race. Now, the way this works is that the two candidates who get the most votes in this primary, regardless of party, move on to the general election.

4:36It happens that there are more Democrats running in the primary, and so the Democratic vote is all split among the candidates, at least as of now. But it's also true that Big Blue California has elected prominent Republicans before, Ronald Reagan, of course, and more recently, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Hilton is running on issues like affordability, cutting bureaucracy, and increasing oil and natural gas production. I spoke with Steve Hilton last week. Mr. Hilton, you were born in the United Kingdom. You have a British accent. What are you doing running for governor of California? How did you get here, and why should the voters of California say yes?

5:21I know, it's crazy. You can't have a governor with a foreign accent. That would be a disaster. Of course, the thing I like to point out is that the last Republican governor of California, Governor Schwarzenegger, of course, had an accent probably even more hard to understand. Not that I can hear. But my favorite joke about that is that, of course, you're right. I was born in the UK, but my parents are Hungarian. And so I always reflect on the Austro-Hungarian Empire and point out that you've had the Austrian, now let's have the Hungarian. That's just what we need is more empire. Exactly. But seriously, Arnold Schwarzenegger came here and he was a big figure in sport, athletics, weightlifting.

6:06People knew him through Pumping Iron and Kennedy family and then he entered politics after a big career in the movies. You came here relatively recently, right? 2012? Yeah. Why did you come to the United States after a career in politics and business in Britain? So in 2012, we moved to the Bay Area. My wife was, she had a big job at Google at the time. She was a big global job there. I was working in 10 Downing Street. I was senior advisor to the prime minister. David Cameron. Exactly. And it was when our second son was born. It was just a lot, frankly. There was a lot of traveling from my wife back and forth to California, the time difference and so on.

6:46And really, it was just for our family's sanity. We thought we would make the move, not necessarily intending to be here in California forever. But actually, even before we moved here, I had a real love affair with this state. I thought and still do think California represents, which truly for me is the best of America. There's a phrase I use all the time, which is California means to America what America means to the world. And what I mean by that is – That's fair. But I think you and I would agree that if I came to Britain as recently as 2012, knowing the British press as we both do, and I decided to run for an office as high as whatever the equivalent of governor of California is, or ended up trying to be home secretary or foreign secretary or even prime minister, I would get blistered in the British press for being, well, presumptuous.

7:45Well, isn't that the magic of America, that anything is possible, and in particular California? I actually make that point on the trail, where I point out that the fact that this is even a possibility speaks to what an incredible country this is. And for much of this year, I've been at or near the top of the polls. So I think in the end, what's working and what I think will take me through to what I concede is a very improbable victory in the general election in November is the simple fact that we're desperate for change in California. that you've had 16 years now of one-party rule where the Democrats have controlled everything in this state.

8:27They've controlled all the statewide offices at maturity in both houses of the legislature, all the big cities and counties, and the results are in, and they're really bad. We've got the highest unemployment rate, the highest cost of living by far, U.S. News and World Report when their rankings annually just ranked as 50 out of 50 states for opportunity. And you could go on with the examples of where California is not just doing poorly, but doing worse than any other state. What have you been doing here in the States professionally since 2012 that would give you the qualification to be governor?

9:05We mainly know you as a Fox News host, which, you know, in the era of Trump, that certainly has been a credential. We have Pete Hegseth, Jeanne Pirro, Sean Duffy, and many more come from that world. Well, you also have, in the form of a former governor here, former Governor Reagan, someone who'd made their mark in what you could broadly describe as the media. But actually, what I would point to is not just what I've done here. And just to directly answer your question, when we moved here in 2012, I taught for a couple of years at Stanford, then I started a business here, and then moved into this very unexpected new career in the media.

9:47But really what I would point to over the course of my career is a broad set of experiences, both in business and in government, which I think is a good combination for an executive role. It's that business mindset, a problem-solving mindset. I wouldn't claim that I'd had any kind of spectacular success in business, but I know how to start and run a business. I've been responsible for that, different types of businesses over the years. And then in the UK, actually working there at the heart of a government, trying to make change up, seeing how hard that is, seeing how difficult it is to implement policy, actually working as part of a coalition government, working across the aisle, as it were.

10:31You're known as a supporter of Donald Trump, and Donald Trump has endorsed you. What's been your analysis of his one year plus second term as president? Has it been a successful presidency in your view? Yes, especially when you look at the speed with which some of those changes that he promised that the American people voted for have been delivered. I think it's an interesting example of how when you see, the thing I'm thinking of in particular is the border, where you had a situation that was completely out of control, I think looking back on the Biden years. And the speed and effectiveness with which that crisis was brought under control, I think speaks to something that is interesting.

11:20In a way, I think Democrats ought to be talking about it more because it can restore one's faith in government action, the ability of government to actually get something done effectively. What was your reaction to the deployment of ICE in Los Angeles and elsewhere in California, much less in Minnesota, Chicago, and other cities? Yeah, it was a horrible spectacle to see. And I never want to see that. So you would push back against President Trump if that came to the state of California and you were in office? Well, I think it's actually a really good example of how it would be helpful to have a governor that would work cooperatively with the administration.

12:06Because the reason that we ended up in that situation where you had awful scenes of violence and chaos and lawlessness and confrontation was because you had a confrontational posture from the California political establishment at every level. and we wouldn't have that when I'm there because we would want to make sure, just as you saw when Obama was president, where you had actually slightly higher levels of immigration enforcement going on without any of this kind of confrontation. I think that is much more the model that I'd like to see. How do you feel about the personality that's in the White House?

12:44And that matters. Rhetoric matters in politics. How you present yourself, how you speak, the empathy or lack of it matters. When you hear President Trump talk about wiping out a civilization in one night in Iran, when you take into account his almost daily vituperation on Truth Social and other platforms, is that a model for you? Well, I think that that whole part of the political conversation and the media conversation is almost what's wrong, what's gone wrong for California. because I think that nationalization of our political debate means that we haven't paid attention to what's actually going on here.

13:31But the president presents himself in a certain way, and you're saying you're supportive of it, and voters are going to take that into deep account. And as you know, California, the president is not terribly popular. How do you feel about his rhetoric? How do you feel about the fact that this family has taken in billions since the beginning of this second term. How do you feel about the war in Iran? Are you for that? Well, I was definitely supportive at the beginning. I've been on the record about that, not least because of the connection that it drew for me between what happened in Hungary, actually, going all the way back to 1956.

14:10Your family emigrated from Hungary in 1956. That was what immediately came to my mind, which was you saw over the years since 1979 in Iran these periodic brave attempts by people to throw off this authoritarian rule. And each time, despite the professed support from the West, broadly speaking, for what they're trying to do, no help ever came. And it really reminded me of a thing that Hungarians say a lot, those of that generation, which was in 1956 when they stood up against the puppet regime imposed by the Soviet Union in the Revolution of 56. And they were hoping for help and nobody came to help us.

14:55That's a term that you hear. More recently in Hungary, the candidate who was considered the authoritarian was the incumbent Viktor Orban, who was supported very heartily by President Trump. Did you join President Trump in supporting Viktor Orban? No, no, no. I've always been. critical of some parts of what he's been doing, but not others. But, you know, the point I really would want to make is, truly, this is a big state with a lot of problems. And that's what I'm focused on. I'm not a political commentator. I'm a participant in the political process, running for office to try and solve some very serious problems affecting the biggest state in our country.

15:37So you're pretty close to Donald Trump in your politics and voters understand that and you advertise that. Well, I say on policy. I think that's the important point because in terms of the focus for me is always what happens and what's the impact of policy on real people. Does it concern you that he has a 29 % popularity rating in the state of California and how that'll impact you? No, because I think that the choice for California is it's not a popularity. It's not an opinion poll on President Trump. It's what will happen to me? Will my kids be able to afford a house so that they can stay in California?

16:14Right now, you talk to most young people, I get many coming to my town halls up and down the state, and you ask them directly, after college, do you think you'll stay here? The answer is almost always no, because it's impossible to imagine they'll ever be able to afford a home or to start and raise a family here. Those are the things that the election is going to be about in the end, rather than someone's opinion of a national leader that in the end has much less influence on these practical things that affect us in California than the governor of California and the people we elect to positions of power here in our state.

16:54I'm speaking with Steve Hilton, who's running for governor of California. More in a moment.

17:08This week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, Steve Kerr, one of the best coaches in the NBA, and certainly one of the most outspoken. Calling the president a buffoon, I kind of regret that, even though I felt it in my heart, because I'm representing a large group of people, not only for our organization, but our fans, too. Steve Kerr joins us next time on the New Yorker Radio Hour from WNYC. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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18:41You're proposing something called Cal Doge, you know, a California version of what Elon Musk and the president led in the very beginning of this second term. Is that an echo that you think is good for you? Do you think Doge was a success on the federal level? Well, it's not just proposing. We're already doing it. We've actually started the work of the very important work of finding so that we can then stop the waste of taxpayer money. I think everyone would agree that if we're taking people's money in taxes, we should want to make sure that it's spent on the things it's supposed to be spent on.

19:23And we're already finding that that's not the case. I'll give you a couple of examples. We've now published four fraud reports. The second one found that since 2015… When you say we have published, meaning your campaign has published? Yes, we have a team of volunteers working at CalDOS. It's obviously not an official part of the government. We're not elected yet. But we have some volunteers that have been going through public data on spending. Also, we have a technology partner who's been using AI to analyze public records. And so one of the examples, and there's many more, but here's one, since 2015 from the Climate Change Mitigation Fund, there's been a program that was intended to place solar panels on low -income apartment buildings, something that many people would support.

20:21$100 million every year for 10 years. That's$1 billion total. So the program was$100 million a year, solar panels on low-income apartment buildings,$1 billion now up to 2025. We found that the total amount actually spent on the intended purpose was$72 million. $928 million was instead allocated to various non-profits and activist groups who did other things, but not what the money was supposed to be spent. I should say that some of these numbers are not independently verified, just so I stipulate there. But Elon Musk was sent packing from Washington. I don't think the imagery of Doge in the end was of a kind of organized policy success for this administration.

21:14In fact, it resulted in a lot of disaster. It just seems curious to me why you would want to even use the name Doge as something to be recommended in the state of California, even on a political level. Well, I think that it's interesting in this conversation, you're focusing a lot on image and words, and I tend to focus on actions and results. Well, I think words matter. I mean, the president's words matter and what we say matters. Sure. I have no apology for that. The idea of making the government more efficient, I think, is a good idea that has broad support. And what you call it, I think, is less important than the work that's done.

22:04it's a it's an idea that i think um has a resonance that we should try and make the government more efficient and so you can get into an argument about whether we should have called it someone else the project that is actually serious work and there's two parts to it this is what that's going on right now and i think it's illustrative of the approach i'm taking to this job which is, I think you haven't seen from any candidate for governor in California of either party, I don't think it's ever been done, which is not just running a political campaign, but actually doing the work as part of that campaign to fully prepare to take office, ready to go with plans in place.

22:48This is an example of that. Because if you look at the way things have grown in the last 16 years or even longer, we've got this massive over-regulation in California, sprawling bureaucracy. That's one reason we have the worst business climate in the country, why businesses are leaving, why jobs are not being created. We have the highest unemployment rate. We've got to do something about that. And you don't want to get there, be elected, and start figuring this out. And so actually, the work that we're doing is very serious work. I want to go back to an earlier point about Britain. Ideologically or politically, you split with David Cameron.

23:29Am I correct? It was over Brexit that we had a difference of opinion. He was obviously against it, and I was for it. So if that's what you're referring to, yeah, we had a difference. Are you glad that you were for Brexit in the rearview mirror? Very much so. I think it's of a piece with something that's really been a driving part of my political philosophy over the years, which is the decentralization of power. I think that when you look at the way, where everywhere power is accumulated and centralized, you tend to get bad results. And I think Brexit was a, the European Union is a classic example of that.

24:11So is California today, by the way, where you have, where bureaucracy grows, where centralization grows, where decisions are taken away from the people who are most directly affected by them, you tend to get bad results. One of your former colleagues at Fox News, Tucker Carlson, I hardly need to explain it, has gone into opposition to the president. He says he regrets that he ever supported him. He feels betrayed by him. How do you feel about Tucker or Carlson's turn against the president? It's, look, I can understand why all these things are interesting, but it's not, it's so far from what I'm focused on, truly.

24:54It's, yeah, I'm running for governor. We are in an election. We've got a big choice to make. Do we continue with another four years of the same kind of ideas and policies that have brought us to this terrible point, or do we make a change? I understand that, but I'm just trying to get a fix on both for Californians, but also nationally, who this guy is that's leading the polls in California and how he feels about the most important person that endorsed him, namely President Trump. Do you think Donald Trump is a good and decent man? I think that Look, I'm not a priest or a pastor, I'm going to make those kind of judgments, but I tell you this Why not?

25:42I'm certain that he's all he wants is the best for this country and everyone who lives here I'm certain of that and that's what drives Thank you very much, I appreciate your time Thank you very much, good to be with you

26:00Steve Hilton is a candidate for Governor of California, and the primary is June 2nd. I'm David Remnick. That's the New Yorker Radio Hour for today. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

26:16The land has been thrown into disorder. Are you feeling a touch lost right now? Like global institutions don't work and politicians aren't collaborating to solve the world's most pressing issues? There is this big space of disorder, and we're just kind of holding up our hands and going, well, don't know what we could do. Then the Disorder Podcast is the right place for you. My name is Jason Pack. I worked in D.C. during the first Trump administration, lived in Libya during the revolution against Gaddafi, been kidnapped twice in Syria. So it's fair to say that I've lived through just a wee bit of disorder.