The Platner Implosion, and What It Means for Democrats

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2:28Welcome to The Political Scene from The New Yorker, a weekly discussion about the big questions in American politics. I'm Evan Osnos, and I'm joined as ever by my colleagues Susan Glasser and Jane Mayer. Hi, Susan, and hi, Jane. Hey there, so great to be with you guys. Hey, good to be here. By now, everybody has probably heard Graham Plattner has suspended his Senate campaign in Maine after an allegation of sexual assault torpedoed his candidacy earlier this week. And it's a stunning fall. Just over a month ago, Plattner had won the Democratic primary with more votes on primary day than any Maine Senate candidate in more than a century.

3:09The fallout from this extends well beyond the state of Maine. Control of the Senate is on the line this fall. And this is a test case for how the Democratic Party navigates its own divisions. So today we'll assess the wreckage of the Plattner implosion and turn to Michigan's Senate race to understand how some similar divisions are playing out there and what they reveal about where the party is headed. In a few minutes, we'll be joined by Neera Tanden, an early Plattner skeptic who is the CEO of the Center for American Progress and a former Biden advisor. But before bringing her on, guys, I want to play a clip of Graham Plattner's video announcing the suspension of his campaign, and we'll get your thoughts.

3:50This is incredibly difficult because I know that some will think it's an admission of guilt, and it most certainly is not. We're not doing it because of the allegations. We're doing it because of the structures that are being taken away from us by those in power. We went toe-to-toe with one of the most entrenched political systems in the history of the world, and we won. We beat them on June 9th in overwhelming numbers. We did it the right way. We built a campaign. We engaged in electoral politics. We motivated people. We banded together. We did it the way that we were told we are supposed to make change.

4:29And we won. And now they are not going to let us have it. Not if it's me. Now, to be clear, Plattner denies the allegations against him. But Susan, what did you make of this video and the end of this campaign? Well, let's just say sorry is not in the dude's vocabulary. You know, narcissists come in all varieties. And I think this week was a reminder that ideology is no bar to a scandal-tarred candidate. If anything, Democrats might have caught a break by having a new opportunity to pick somebody else who might have a better chance of not only winning this particular Senate race, but keeping Democrats in the hunt overall for winning back the Senate.

5:20This came really just literally days before the July 13th deadline in order for Maine Democrats to actually get a new candidate on the ballot. So there's that logistical thing. But I do think, Evan, Jane, that we're looking at it's not just a story about a Senate race or we wouldn't be having this conversation, right? It's a story both about politics in the Trump era. I think for Democrats, what you're seeing is a big struggle to figure out the party's identity, both its ideological identity, the strength of the progressive left, but also its sort of calibration on the insider-outsider axis. What does it mean to channel the righteous anger of people, but at the same time not find yourself in the thrall to, you know, such a flawed outsider that nobody really knows, you know, where he comes from?

6:12So I feel like it's an important conversation, not just about this one clearly very flawed dude in Maine, but about a bigger story about where our politics is headed. Yeah, it is striking. He found a lot of people to blame in that message. But as you say, there is this underlying question about how much do the issues that he represented, how much will they continue to percolate through this season? Jane, what did you make of the video and the fallout? I mean, honestly, I thought that was one of his worst moments. He makes himself out to be a victim. He says they are doing it to him. Who is this unknown they?

6:55It's a different sort of mode than his earlier part of the campaign where he was much more forthright about his own problems that he's had and struggles. And I think part of his appeal was what people took to be authenticity, that he'd gone through a lot of troubles and he did take responsibility or he said he did. And I think that appealed to people. Now, when you hear the way he's bowing out, you see a different side of him, one that's totally not taking responsibility for what was a complete car wreck of a campaign and not being forthright enough about his vulnerabilities with anyone, even now.

7:34And I see something else in this that I think is really important, though, also, in addition to the flawed candidate we've seen here, is that he struck such a nerve. Even somebody with these obvious vulnerabilities and the skeletons in the closet, baggage, call it whatever you want, everything from the Nazi tattoo to the women problems and the egregious accusation of actual rape. Despite all of that, he did incredibly well. He beat a very seasoned governor, Janet Mills, in Maine with over 70 % of the vote in the primary. He was saying things and articulating problems and speaking to people in a way that they're hungry to hear.

8:21And I think it's at the party's peril that they just sweep out the whole thing and don't pay attention to whatever those signals are because they better deal with the problems people are feeling and facing and come up with some answers of their own if they don't like the ones that the far left is coming up with. Well, we are going to get into exactly this question and where it's taking the party in the future with a guest who's thought a lot about this, and that's Neera Tanden. Neera Tanden, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Neera, we played Plattner's video statement before you came on, and in responding to that video, you've said that Plattner has betrayed the people of Maine.

9:01I wondered if you would just start us off by talking about that. What do you mean, and what's on your mind now? Well, when you're a candidate in a race like this, your job is to defeat, you know, your primary opponent, but really to defeat the Republican. This is a seat that Susan Collins holds. Graham Plattner knew of a lot of problems that he had and chose to run. he did get people genuinely excited about his candidacy. And I think that what is particularly tragic about this whole situation is that there were a lot of people in Maine who invested time and energy in supporting him. And he demonstrated no remorse in that video for what he did to basically betray that trust.

9:55And ultimately, the real problem with Graham Plattner's candidacy was that issue after issue became so big that people couldn't look past them. And I think that when you've made mistakes like this, it's best to say I made mistakes and move on instead of attacking so many other people. You know, Neera, I guess one of the big questions, right, is like, is this just one of those like disastrous one-offs or does it tell us something larger about the state of party politics right now, where the Democrats are at? Why did it take so long for Democrats to draw a line with Plattner? And I think that's why we were hoping to have you on this week is you are in a way on the front line of that question.

10:40And I was really struck that in the last few days, you know, you've been out there mixing it up both with the people who brought Graham Plattner to the party. Morris Katz, who's someone we had on this podcast, who even when we didn't ask him about it was puffing up Graham Plattner, called him a generational political talent. You've been exchanging sharp Twitter commentary with him. Thought this was a particularly good line here. You said Frankenstein was also deeply disappointed in his monster in response to something that Morris Katz tweeted that he was very, you know, upset about the allegations when Politico published them this week.

11:22But you're also on television the other night doing combat hand-to-hand with somebody many, many, many people on the left love to hate, and that's Scott Jennings making the point that the party of Donald Trump really probably should shut up when it comes to this controversy. Tell us a little bit about sort of being on the front line and what it tells us about where Democrats are right now. Well, I think there's actually a through line to both of these issues, which is, as some may know, I was a Plattner skeptic, not only because of the substance of the allegations and realities. I mean, he did have a kind of Nazi-adjacent tattoo.

12:02That's not in contest. But my argument about this over the last several months has been to look away from some of these issues really does kind of open up the Democratic Party to a charge of hypocrisy. And I think sometimes a lot of liberals looked at the Plattner situation for months and months and months and said, Donald Trump is president. So why are we holding our leaders to standards? Like, he's a criminal. He has credible, several credible accusations of rape and assault. And why are we holding ourselves to that standard? And we are in a way, there are a lot of liberals who think we're suckers for holding ourselves to that standard.

12:47Now, the truth is, when you do cold, hard analysis of swing state elections, there are actual non-MAGA Republicans who vote for a Mark Kelly or Ruben Gallego because they do have character concerns about the Republican in the race, Carrie Lake, others. So, you know, you can look at the last 10 years and say character doesn't matter. But actually, in these swing states, character does matter. That makes a lot of sense. At the same time, I wanted to know, what do you make of the fact that 72 % of main voters in the primary voted for him anyway? Not everything was known at that point that is known now.

13:34The woman who accused him of rape had not yet come forward. But there was a lot out there. I mean, what do you make of that, that he did so well? I think it's a combination of issues. I do think he tapped into a deep anger in the party. And it is the case that lots of liberals, I'm sure lefties, but like even moderates are angry at a party that was supposed to beat Donald Trump and didn't. And many elements of it haven't seemed like they are up to the moment that we're in. I also think that we are seeing across the country in every primary Democrats are turning out at huge levels. I mean, just to step back, for the first time in 24 years, more Democrats voted in Texas in the Democratic primary than in the Republican primary, more than more Republicans vote in the Republican primary.

14:33So that hasn't happened in decades. And that is in part because I think Democrats are just really motivated out there to express in any way they can that they want to take down Republicans. And honestly, this was helping Graham Plattner a lot in this race. But I think another really crucial element that we should all really wrestle with is Graham Plattner was weak in the primary and in the general with working class voters. Right. You actually look at the numbers. Right. And he was much drew much more support, as has been the case in other races around the country that feature candidates from the progressive left, from the left wing of the party right now.

15:16They're actually drawing more support from white college educated voters than they are from working class voters. And so I just I think it's a fascinating thing because it's also about kind of what what story you tell yourself right now in this very fragmented media environment and, you know, what conversation you're a part of. And, you know, we've seen versions of this debate every two years for the last decade of the Trump era, right? This sort of idea like, is it an ideological rift inside the Democratic Party or is it an extreme kind of online left that's creating kind of a fantasy football version of what they think a working class populist Democrat looks like?

15:57And I'm curious, you're sort of on the front line of that question as well. Is it about ideology or is it more, as you framed it, a kind of style of politics, right? Like we want to fight Trump more aggressively. We want to be after it. Is it that voters like the style of outsider candidates like Plattner or is it that they actually want democratic socialism in America? I mean, I think when you look across the country and look at candidates, I think the most important thing to do is to actually, you know, kind of listen to working class voters who are in contest. And I will say it is really important in a lot of states for Democrats to be able to attract working class voters.

16:43In blue states, a lot of people, you can win elections with just running up the score with college educated voters. But in the Midwest, plenty of states around the country, it's really crucial to be able to attract some group of working class voters. Now, there is, I think, the Plattner campaign. I mean, I was at a dinner with Morris Katz where he was making this whole case about Plattner. This was several months ago. And he basically his argument was that if you have a candidate who is themselves working class, kind of looks working class, that candidate can tap into a real, you know, an economic populism where working class people are, you know, they're really very left on economic issues.

17:28And I think that this whole situation kind of belies that. And, you know, if we want to be candid, working class voters, like you can do polling or focus groups or chit chats or whatever, but working class voters are pretty moderate on cultural and what I would call security issues, crime and immigration. they feel more vulnerable to security issues. You know, just on the issue of crime, they, working class people experience crime at higher rates than college educated people. And so, you know, I think the challenge here is that there's kind of been an argument that actually, you know, like working class people are kind of mini socialists on economic issues.

18:08And I think this is a, you know, they do believe that corporations have too much power. And that is like a kind of baseline view. So do I. But, you know, the idea that they are just, you know, as left, as some people argue, is just belied by the facts. I mean, that question, exactly what you were talking about, which is how do you parse out which elements of the populist platform are in fact popular versus which elements are not, is going to be front and center, I'm guessing, over the course of this very busy period ahead, figuring out, well, now, what does the Democratic Party in Maine do? I mean, I think there's an element here that as much as this is a mess today, there is a silver lining for the Democratic Party because it's a chance to find a new candidate.

18:55How are you thinking about this process of how do you find somebody in this now very tight schedule who's going to be able to excite Democrats enough to take out Susan Collins? I mean, my personal view, although I should say that people of Maine and the Maine Democratic Party will know a million times better than me what to do. I think in the Trump era, if you believe that Trump is an existential threat to the country, that as a voter in a Democratic primary, you should be thinking about who can beat Trump. I mean, who can beat Susan Collins and therefore hopefully take the Senate. And just to say the stakes here, because I think we kind of lose sight of this.

19:44I hope Democrats, I believe Democrats will take the House. But and that's important. But if you want to stop Trump nominees, the way to do that is through the Senate. There's so much more power in the Senate. So the fact that we're it's possible to get a Democratic Senate with the map is a testament to how poorly Trump is doing. But nothing is guaranteed here. And the main race is really crucial. So to me, I think people should really be thinking of not who makes them the happiest, although it's good to make people happy, but who can actually put together a coalition that pressures people who voted for Susan Collins in election, in election, in election to vote for the Democrat.

20:27So I am curious what you think of the National Party's intervention in this in the form of Schumer trying to knock out Plattner early and put Mills in. Is that a helpful thing for the Democratic Party to do or not? I mean, I don't think anyone could look at the last year and say, well, that was a really good move, folks. I mean, I think, honestly, what's really interesting here is look at North Carolina and look at Maine. I think Chuck Schumer really like really recruited Roy Cooper, who was an older candidate and seemed to work out well. And then in Maine, he recruited Janet Mills. And I will say, I think there is definitely an overhang in the Democratic Party about like a real concern about older candidates and older candidates not really having the stamina or will to fight.

21:20And I think this is a big overhang from The whole situation with President Biden and the 24 election. Can I ask you about that? I mean, I feel like part of what's fueling, you alluded to this earlier, this kind of visceral rage among the anti-Trump part of the electorate does seem to be a sense that the people who said that Donald Trump was an existential threat to the country didn't follow through, that they were hypocrites in some way, that they chose their own ambition as President Biden seems to have done. I mean, you know, you you worked in the Biden White House. Could you and other people in the White House have gone in and said, look, sir, you know, we're so grateful.

22:01But can you do what you said you were going to do and step aside? Yeah, I mean, I kind of wrestle with this all the time. I mean, I wasn't amongst the president's political advisors. And I genuinely think that if I had gone up to Joe Biden and like set myself on fire as a protester of him running, he would like not have listened to me and listened to his actual political advisors. I mean, he very much looked at me as a policy advisor and not as a political advisor. So, but, you know, it's like the perfect disaster in this sense, because the president's advisors look at Kamala not winning and can tell themselves a story of how maybe they would have won.

22:42And then Kamala didn't win. And she can tell herself a story and a very, very legitimate story, which is that she had a very shortened campaign and did really, really well. And I think what's really interesting about the last several years is people in other countries have taken important lessons here. You know, like Justin Trudeau stepped aside and then they picked someone, Mark Carney, who had no connection to Justin Trudeau, didn't serve in, you know, was in the same party but didn't serve with him. And he did really well. And Andy Murnum is likely he's going to be probably a U.K. prime minister.

23:17And he comes from a different wing of the party, but a very reasonable leader and seems to be doing well against the far right and polls. And I think that's an important lesson for parties, that if you tell people the country is facing an existential threat, you actually have to do the hard work of doing that. I think the truth is that everyone is looking, all the factions in the Democratic Party are looking at 24 and trying to make a case not about what happened in 24, but what should happen in the future.

23:53We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to turn to Michigan and we're going to look at how the tensions within the Democratic Party are playing out there. More with Neera after the break. The political scene from The New Yorker will be right back.

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25:49Nira, the Michigan race is, as a lot of people know, it's shaping up as a contest between two very different visions of the Democratic Party. You've got Abdul El-Sayed, the Bernie Sanders AOC endorsed progressive, and then Haley Stevens, who's the four-term House Democrat, close ties to the party establishment. And then until recently, you had Mallory McMorrow, who was also in the race, who was viewed by many people as a sort of bridge candidate between the progressives and the moderates. But she dropped out, struggling in the polls. So, Neera, are these kinds of showdowns, this kind of contest about what the party represents, is this fundamentally healthy for the party?

26:28Is this the kind of process it should be going through, or is it actually corroding its power in the months before the election? I mean, I think primaries are very healthy. I think it's important to have primaries. I think we have learned it's really important for candidates to be tested. An election in a state like Michigan is no foregone conclusion. I mean, the thing that people should keep in mind is that unlike other states, all the candidates have been at best running a little bit ahead of Mike Rogers, who's the Republican nominee. He's a person who's ran before. He is not a MAGA fire-breathing candidate.