‘Cape Fear’ Episode 3: Who Stalks the Stalkers?

21:38Joanna Robinson:Yes. And I think in this case, clearly wants an in with this family, right? Like Nevaeh, it feels, I guess you could read what she does with Natalie as retribution for Anna confronting her. That's a question I had. And to be fair, Anna's like, here's a couple hundred bucks. Let me tell you about some shelters. Fuck you, lady. Like. What do you mean, fuck you, lady? That feels more than a little presumptuous. Okay. Well, on the one hand, maybe. On the other hand, I don't. Nevaeh does not look like she has a regular place to sleep to me. I wouldn't presume to know. And certainly if I'm Amy Adams in this case, I wouldn't presume to say.

22:14Joanna Robinson:As you and I both know, you got to keep those bangs clean or else they get greasy and clumpy. You know what I mean? It's an occupational hazard. So, you know, I thought she was, maybe she was being nice in like a rich white lady way. She was not being nice. She thought, I think she thought she was being nice. I agree. That's the problem. Okay, fair. All right, fine. I think you could read what Nevaeh does as like lashing out at Anna. Or you could read it as she has some reason to want to be in the Bowdoin household. and this one road has dried up and now she's going to go this other way instead.

22:44Joanna Robinson:We got some emails. Skip ahead if you don't want to know anything from the trailer. It's nothing major, but we got some emails from people asking if she was perhaps Max Cady's daughter because there is... So in this episode, when she feeds the drug to Natalie, that's the classic Max Cady, Juliette Lewis, creepy MTV kiss moment. Yeah. In the trailer, she's seen laughing loudly inside of a movie theater, which is another classic Max Cady move from the 90s, the De Niro film. So like she is in many ways playing out some of Max Cady's greatest hits. So is she doing so because she's associated with him?

23:20Joanna Robinson:Is this coincidental? What's going on? Is this yet another head fake? We don't know. Is she also Max Cady's daughter? I don't know. I feel like we would know. I don't know. I lied. We do have one more email and it feeds into this sort of matching of Javier Bardem and Amy Adams that we talked about a little bit last week because we were mentioning the blue eyes on Javier Bardem. One of our listeners was like, are they both blue or is it just the one on the left side, the same side he was hit? And Javier Bardem did say in an interview that the eyes are meant to sort of reflect the brain damage. So one is lighter because of that, but they do match Amy Adams' eyes.

23:58Joanna Robinson:They also have put some red in his hair and his beard that is not usually there. He's not like ginger ginger like Amy Adams is, but there's a little auburn sort of in his hair and his beard. And then - What do you take from that, from a color theory perspective? Ginger evil? It's not. No, I love and support gingers. Just wondering. It's a we're not so different, you and I. Got you. And that's further underlined by my favorite detail in this episode, which is that Amy Adams and Javier Bardem are wearing the exact same blue linen button-down shirt in different parts of the episode. This was an insane pull by you.

24:32Joanna Robinson:I don't know. No, it's insane good. Because I think the ways in which you see them, and it's Anna early in the episode when she's at her house. Yeah. Going through Zach's cloned phone and all that. And then later in the episode on the road trip, we see Max have, I mean, what literally could be the same shirt. I think it's the exact same shirt. You think he grabbed... No. Sorry, no. I just think it's the same cut, same fabric, same store. I'm going to put three theories on the table. One, they both shop at L.L. Bean. Sure. Two, he literally grabbed this shirt when he was at their house. Three, when they were hypothetically allegedly shacking up they bought his and hers matching shirts.

25:12Joanna Robinson:And he like kept it when he was in prison he was just sort of like I gotta come back. Him showing up for the road trip wearing the shirts like this is me meeting you halfway. This is like two halves of the best friend necklace. I think so. And he's like beef fry and she's like as to end. Great. When she walked in and saw him in the kitchen and she's like what are you doing in my kitchen? I expected her to say and wearing my shirt. They look very different on them because they have different like bodies, but it's the same shirt. Same shirt. And so I do think that like the blue in the eye, the red in the hair and the same shirt, and then just sort of like their appreciation of each other inside of this episode, you know, like when she is doing her stuff in the boardroom and he's like, you're a pit bull.

25:53Joanna Robinson:And we know how he feels about dogs. He's like, this is the highest compliment I could pay someone. He'll remind me of a dog. He's admiring her. They're, you know, they're having this like laughing over Tabitha, you know, her sex noises with Dusty the cameraman, et cetera, et cetera. Even earlier in the episode at the gas station. Oh, yeah, we're right. Where he's kind of tormenting Tabitha a little bit. And Anna shows up and like the head shake and smile. Oh, you Max. Super familiar. But also like Anna, you're a little fucked up. Well, that's what I'm saying. She's, they're not so different. They're really not.

26:24Joanna Robinson:And I will say, I believe very firmly at the end of the episode when Tom and Anna are having sex, he's thinking about Lexi from work and I think she's thinking about Max Cade. I think she came home horny. Yeah. And he was already horned up because he and Lexi were microdosing together and cuddling on the couch. He was, but he was also like, let me tell you about work. Like, you've been on a road trip with potentially the devil and let's talk about, like, prenups. No, but I think he was horned up but he was like, really? His, like, sort of like, really or whatever he said seemed to me that, like, they don't have sex that often.

27:00Joanna Robinson:Yeah. So when she's like, initiating with him. Now's the time. He's like, oh, we're doing this? I thought we didn't really do this much anymore. It's not a Thursday. Like, what are we doing? You know what I mean? It's not on the shirt cowl. Yeah. So yeah, I just think that they're, you know, and to go back to the show art for this, it's her face blurred into his face. So, you know, I think if the first two iterations of adapting the book were about you know, perfect good versus perfect evil, Gregory Peck versus Robert Mitchum, and then flawed good Nick Nolte versus evil Robert De Niro. And now it's just sort of like, we're both sympathetic in a way.

27:47Joanna Robinson:If this Max Katie was tormented as a child, he's got this head injury, all this other stuff. And then like, she had a horrible childhood and And she was like, you know, she spoke in very vague terms when they were sharing some coffee or whatever about her state of mind when she was representing him at the trial. The trial broke her, but not a lot of detail as to how and why and what happened. You know, so like, you know, and he's like, we shared interests. Was it weird voodoo drugs? I don't know. Could be. Was it just alcohol? Who's to say? But she, you know, got sober after that. Yes. It was a wake up call in some way.

28:27Joanna Robinson:Yeah, so I think that's what's going on with matching shirts to put a button on it. I love the matching shirts. Can I raise one other thing in the air with this adaptation that is new? Please, Rob. I think particularly with the Wendy Wilson character, this idea of like, we are engaging with the true crime phenomenon overlaid this man who's been released from prison. And we see Anna wield that in the negotiation. Also very tastefully, I would say the episode mentioning like, oh, it could be HBO or Netflix and not Apple TV. Apple doesn't really do true crime. They really don't? So they're staying in their lane with the Trash Your Peace Theater.

28:59I appreciate it. But this woman who just like basically stalks Max Katie to the ice cream stand coincidentally shows up in like her nice dress and wants to talk to him. And like her first question is, do you think your mistress Amy actually killed your wife? Just one of the most inhuman things that a true crime brained person might actually ask someone like him.

29:21Joanna Robinson:It became very clear at the end that she just wanted to like jump his bones. go to Cape Fear River with him. Have a nice brinzino. She thought she wanted ice cream looked off her face, but she did not when ice cream looked off her face. I like that. But at first I was like, oh, is this another fucking podcaster? You know what I mean? They're just everywhere. They're in all the bushes, you know. I got bad news. They are everywhere. But yeah, we've already seen a true crime podcaster. Yeah, Tabitha, the journalist who's trying to make this true crime documentary. That's a great point. The celebrity and the sort of you know, this has existed for a while, but like even more so now, this sort of fan-ish fascination with these murderers or alleged murderers.

30:11Yeah, I think especially when you think about what that could do for a story like this. We don't know how true a version of Max Cady this will be to the previous iterations. Maybe this guy is just kind of in the wrong place at the wrong time and constantly being misunderstood. Right. But if he is a stalker, now you have the question of like, who stalks the stalkers, right? The podcasters, the true crime obsessives.

30:29Joanna Robinson:The Juliette Lewis's of the world. The Juliette Lewis's, but like, someone like Wendy could conceivably see Max commit a crime, right? She could be in the wrong place at the wrong time if she's following him around or someone like her is. Oh, yeah. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business.

31:04So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. All new Sundays at nine, exclusively on AMC and AMC+. I am the vampire Lestat. I'm a rockstar I'm a little killer. I'm a little one. From Anne Rice's Immortal Universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history. Thousands of fans love you. I want millions. It's my era. Anne Rice's The Vampire List. All new Sundays at 9, exclusively on AMC and AMC+. Stream now. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Buying something for dad usually goes the same way every year.

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32:08Joanna Robinson:Great point. All right. So let's start at the beginning of the episode. It's a little late for it, but let's just circle back. Too bad. Patron state of us podcasting. Margarita LaViva is here. This is her CV off the dome of late. She was in Task. Yes. Memorably. Spoilers. Died. She's in Daredevil Born Again. Certainly was. Spoiler. Became a killer. Also, spoiler. Choked. Came. Choked and came. And conquered. She's in The Acolyte. Yep. She's just been around. a lot of shows that I've been covering. She's getting work. And guess what? All like different networks, different production companies. It's not like she's gotten into the Apple TV silo and she's just popping around.

32:53Joanna Robinson:Disney, Disney, HBO, Apple. All over the place. Oh, great. So LaViva's here. Viva LaViva. She is here as Lexi. Yeah. A senior associate, not a paralegal, I'll have you know, who is clearly in a role that's familiar to the story of somebody that Tom works with. Yes. Who he is. on the brink of having an affair with. Does smooch inside of this episode. I was excited to see her. We knew she was in the cast. We didn't know who she was playing. And she shows up on the Zoom. And I was like, we're doing La Viva. Here she is. What do you think of this Lexi top stuff? I mean, up top, we get, I would say one of the most true to life Zoom calls I've ever seen on screen.

33:35Joanna Robinson:No pants. I mean, just all business waist up, all party waist down. The private messaging on the sidebar. Like, clearly they have a very familiar and maybe overly familiar relationship. And the level they get to by the end of this episode, I am impressed slash shocked by her gall. Like, the level, first of all, him inviting her over to the house in front of, like, Zach is right there. There's a lot of just, like, shamelessness happening. But the couch lean that Lexi... It's not even a lean. She's, like, half on his lap. I mean, she's half mounted. I usually I don't like to like Blame the women In these scenarios usually He's the married guy But she is Putting the moves She brought the She's not She's not gonna take no for an answer She brought the purse flask Yep She's just sort of like Those people look like They have a lot of sex Are you having a lot of sex Who's taking care of you Who's taking care of you Tom Like Jesus Christ Yeah Cool your jets Lexi But he is also the like Oh my wife's not coming home Yeah, you should come over, you know.

34:41Joanna Robinson:And she did get the hint as soon as he was like, oh, wait up for you. She's like, gotta pack the bag. She knew her cue on that one. This purse booze party is over. Yeah, Lexi. Wow, wow, wow. I don't know if they're going to use her the same way that this archetype has been used previously. Unclear. I learned my lesson from Presumed Innocent. I will not presume anything, but this is a character we've seen before. And Laveva's here to play it. You know, it's Patrick Wilson, who among us would not fling ourselves across the couch at him. Like she wants a squeeze of that dropper. And I think many people would understand.

35:14Joanna Robinson:When it wasn't the weightlifting, but later in the sort of end of episode marital Congress moment. And he's there in his boxer briefs. And I Googled how old is Patrick Wilson? That made us 52. Unreal. 52. Between that and Coleman Domingo, who's also in his 50s on Euphoria. I'm just like, what are we putting in the droppers? Jesus Christ. I would say it gives me a lot of hope, but let's be real about it. Those guys are on a different level. They're pulling it off in a way that us normies simply never could. The cast was asked sort of like what they did to unwind from such intensive storytelling or whatever.

35:51Joanna Robinson:And Amy Adams is like, I drank a lot of wine. You know, Harvey O 'Byrdell's like, whatever, and Patrick Wilson's like, Patrick Wilson's like, I work out so much. I work out all the time. And I'm like, we can tell, buddy. We can tell. That's his de-stress. How did you feel about our first glimpse of aggro Tom? Him really going to work pumping iron after, well, maybe we're getting too far ahead, but like after this - After Ethan Embry shows up? Ethan Embry shows up and there is an almost conflict. So we're calling him Ethan Embry because we do not have a character name. We know the young lady who's with him is Trish.

36:22Joanna Robinson:She gets named up several times. We do not know who Ethan Embry is playing as of the recording of this podcast. What if he's reprising his role as the bass player from that thing you do? Oh my God, that would be great. This could be what happens to him. Someone texted me that the actor who plays Shades in That Thing You Do is playing Elle Woods' father in the Elle show that's on Amazon. So listen, if the wonders want to stay employed, who among us would stop them? Ethan Embry is here, looking as Ethan Embry has in the past decade or so. Why do you think he's here? I have a theory, but I'm curious why you think he's here.

37:01I don't know.

37:02Joanna Robinson:Okay. I think the purpose of this scene is, one, so we do see a hint of like a more confrontational, imposing Tom, right? Who is putting his foot down, who's saying like, you got to get out of here immediately. And crucially for plot purposes, we see the gun safe and see him pull the guns out of it. Our introduction to like, okay, there are guns in the house. Right. But how did he get here? Who was he invited by? I think that requires a level of like umbrella theorizing that I just don't even know where to start anymore. Guess what? I'm ready. Okay, please. So invited by Tommy, the owner of the house, right?

37:35Joanna Robinson:So someone posing as him or someone who's like trying to fuck with him. So like my first instinct was like, it's Max. Max like went and found a rando and was like, hey, because he doesn't seem like he really did not seem like he knew Tom in any way. Tom didn't certainly know him, but he really did not seem like he was directing this towards Tom. He did see and wave to Natalie, which I did not like. I'm wondering if it's Ted Levine Anna's father who is bipolar oh doesn't he just seem like the kind of guy who would have met Trish and Ethan Embry somewhere and have been like you know my son-in-law Tommy owns a pool like come by maybe but his like their relationship is already so strained and he does seem earnestly like he does at least part of him want to connect with Anna again but I also think he's mentally unwell so I don't know like what's going on there that's my If I were to draw a line.

38:29You think that's the clearest possibility?

38:32Joanna Robinson:That's my guess. I can't think of a, like someone either did this purely by accident or specifically to provoke and make like the Bowdens feel even more unsettled than they already are. I have to say like the face of true terror to me is not necessarily like a couple of people coming over to use your pool. I understand that it's your property, it's your backyard, it's a whole thing. Well, there's an ongoing like fucking with, right? So it's like also, I mean, I definitely think Max is the one who let his dog shit in the yard would be my guess. Yeah, that one does line up pretty nicely. So like, we're just chipping away at his sanity.

39:09Joanna Robinson:That's the thing. You just need to go back to the dropper more and more frequently. It's an accumulation. It's the death by a thousand cuts over and over and over. And one of those cuts is Ethan Embry. Apparently so. But I think what makes me hesitate that it would be Brandon and his dad is specifically the line we get from Ethan Embry about like, oh this pool is just here and you're not even using it that's a little selfish isn't it? and it's like that seems more provocative that seems more like a direct challenge in a way that's meant to needle Tom class class solidarity with Ethan Embry use your use your pool or lose your pool I think that's right squatters rights even in a pool yeah stand your ground in a pool uh yeah gosh Tom you don't strike me as a violent I mean I want Ethan Embry to come back I thought his energy was really fun he simply must yeah uh Chekhov's gun safe We're definitely going to see that gun safe again.

39:55Joanna Robinson:And then this is the image we get over the opening credits. This is an ongoing thing this season where, like, you get a provocative image. In this case, it's Patrick Wilson standing behind the bars of the closed gate. And then you get the font of, like, Cape Fear coming over him. In episode one, it was the blood spatter of Amy Brancato's second attempt at blowing her brains out. That's what happened. And then in episode two, it was Max Kitty on the ground getting arrested. So I was just sort of wanting to track like what are the images that we're putting this opening title over. Peanut Butter the Cat, who I'm very worried about.

40:32Joanna Robinson:We see Peanut Butter sort of like wringing around Natalie's ankles as it kind of seems like it's Natalie's cat more than of all the people in the family. She's been the one interacting with the cat the most. That makes sense. Usually there's like one person in the family who is like most closely the cat's favorite. Wow. That's just true. Are you your cat's favorite? Yeah. I just want to make sure. Does your dog play favorites? Not really. Dogs don't play favorites, but cats do. I think the possessiveness of a cat is very different than the possessiveness of a dog, unless you have a chihuahua type lap dog fixated on one person.

41:05A purse dog. Yeah.

41:06Joanna Robinson:Ray and Anna, seen in the car. Anything you want to say about this? You get the mirrored phone. A second, second phone. Zach already has a second phone. He does. Now there's a phone mirroring his primary phone. So there's phone A, Zach's phone. Yeah. Phone A1, which is the clone of Zach's phone. And phone B, which is the burner. Yes. I just think Anna and Tom have a lot going on. They are, though, terrible parents. Really, really bad parents. Tom's behavior with Zach in the house of just like, yeah, let me invite over my kind of work maybe girlfriend and we're just going to microdose together.

41:41Insane.

41:42Joanna Robinson:While my son is upstairs. My son who already resents me is upstairs. We already had a conversation in which he straight up lied to me about meeting with Max and talking to him. Okay, that's one thing. Anna wanting to clone this phone in the first place and Ray's like, here's a crazy idea. Have you thought about having a conversation with your son? She's like, I simply couldn't. Yeah. But this is how we drive plot. This is how we get through 10 episodes. The parents have to make really bad decisions. There was a moment when she was sort of messing on the phone and then Natalie came in with a blue dress, which we'll talk about in a second.

42:15Joanna Robinson:and then she hides it in the couch cushions. Yeah. I was like, if Anna fucking leaves that phone in the couch cushions. She's going to. Oh my God. She's going to leave the phone in the couch cushions. Also, when you give the phone back to your son who you do not trust and you have cloned his phone, do not say, we love you and we trust you. That is a comment that will haunt you. There's a lot of trust building inside of this episode. Yeah. Attempted trust building. Okay. Anything else you want to say about Ray who has at least some good parenting advice. We already talked about Tom lifting. I just want to note that like, you know, as is the case with other places in the house, like the gym is under slight construction.

42:54Joanna Robinson:But I do think that like Dexter-esque like plastic sheeting that's in Tom's home gym is like, is something going to happen? Are we going to need that sheeting to like roll up a body at some point? I'm already conditioned to think that anytime there's a bench press or a weight bar of any kind, someone's head might be smashed on it. Fair enough, fair enough. On the Wendy Wilson conversation, which we've already talked about, and we've already alluded to this, but we should note that they are marking the Cape Fear as a river, or at least a river associated with a Cape. Possibly among other things.

43:26Joanna Robinson:Right. Could just be Cape Fear River. It could be a river around the actual Cape Fear. I don't know that we're ever going to go there necessarily. I definitely think we're going to go there. Are we going to go to the river? I 100 % think the climax of this show is on the river Cape Fear. I could see it. But are we going to catch a fish with our bare hands and cook it up very modestly? Oil and garlic. Did you, Rob Mahoney, foodie, relate to Max Cady's description of how we prepare this fish? It sounded lovely. It is the way to prepare fish. Here's my question for you. You're not so different, you and Mike Cady.

43:58Certainly not. The tomato slicing sandwich scene we get with Max and Zach as Anna stumbles into the kitchen and finds them.

44:06Joanna Robinson:Pinch it at the base? Pinch it at the base. I can't decide whether it makes him more or less believable as a chef. We're told canonically he owned a restaurant. He ran a restaurant. Name for his wife. So is it just called the Amanda, do you think? Maybe just Amanda. Okay. But the use of a non-serrated knife, which is clearly the best way to cut a tomato, they go straight knife instead. But it's a very clean cut. And he's very smooth with it. Your knives have to be very sharp. Well, clearly. But this isn't even his knife. This is Anna's. This is a Bowdoin knife. Are we adding that to the list of...

44:38Joanna Robinson:So we've got nail gun. Yeah. Gun safe. and can slice through a tomato with ease, sharp kitchen knives. I want to say somebody did grab that knife in the first two episodes to go out in the backyard. Maybe Tom did. You know, one of the backyard spookings. Ted Levine sort of moment. Yeah. All I'm saying is, I think I'm coming down on the side of this guy is so good with a knife that he could even convincingly and non-smooshingly slice a tomato. You use a serrated knife to cut a tomato? Definitely. I'm not going to question you because you know more about cooking than I do. I just, that would never occur to me.

45:09It's the best way to me to not get your tomato totally compressed as you hold it.

45:13Joanna Robinson:Will it not tear up the skin? Shockingly not. Interesting. Try it. Okay. Francesco Scorsese cameo, which we already mentioned. This to me was another of a lineage too, though. You mentioned, you know, the ways in which we are calling back and hearkening back to these previous projects with some of the casting. But like, one of Scorsese's other daughters, Domenica, is in his version of Cape Fear as one of Julia Lewis's classmates. So we are continuing that tradition too. Great catch. What do you make of Anna calling Natalie a truffle pig for rooting around in her closet? The charm was not lost on me.

45:53Joanna Robinson:Okay. Here's my note. Yeah. For the costume department. I lived in the 90s. That's an 80s dress. Not a 90s dress. At best, a like 91, 92 dress. but that's not like Amy Adams teenager dress I don't think if the math is right what should they have used instead? oh like a baby doll dress I could see it yeah yeah and that reads more as convincingly vintage in a way that a teen would actually want to wear today yeah because that dress is ugly and when Callie who sucks yeah says how old navy have you I'm like yeah she's both right but that's also maybe the most evil thing that happens in this episode it's brutal I mean no shade if you shop at Old Navy but like that dress was like that dress was ugly not in like not even in like a well you could wear that dress if you were going to like a party like an 80s theme party or a 90s theme if you actually believe that's from the 90s like whatever I've seen like excessively ruffled 80s dresses styled out well whatever as a cover up for your bathing suit at a pool party I don't see it absolutely not yeah no and the fact that Anna like let Natalie And also, why is Anna holding on to that dress?

47:08Joanna Robinson:The fact that she let Natalie walk out the door, and that is also a bad parent. As bad as cloning your son's phone, I would say. The evidence is piling up. Yeah. Okay, the Angel X encounter at the diner. Detective Anna on the case. Oh, yeah. Based on one mere duck on the plate, she finds the diner. She knows the plateware of every diner in the broader Savannah area. Is there a diner that you could identify by the plateware? Not a single chance. No, because I feel like usually... I hop, like something clearly marked with the name. I feel like usually it's like that, like, plain white ceramic with the brown ring around it.

47:38Joanna Robinson:Like, that's... But they all use it. Yeah, they all use it. The duck is... I guess it is singular. Follow-up question. Orange soda with breakfast for dinner? I Googled this to see if it was a thing and I could not find anything. Like, I was like, is this a Southern thing? But I couldn't find this. And so I guess I understand if you're like, we drink orange juice with breakfast, but it's breakfast for dinner. So let's try an orange soda. But, like, that sounds demented to me. I don't know how you feel about it. Well, I am someone who will drink Diet Coke at any hour of the day, including with breakfast.

48:06Joanna Robinson:That's a true fact I know about you. I'm fine with that part of it. Okay. Orange soda is just like sugary and intense in a totally different way. I would almost prefer, like I've been to places and diners that offer a sort of like orange juice and either sparkling water or Sprite. Kind of like almost an orangina kind of vibe, but non-alcoholic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That absolutely. A little sparkle with your juice. Sure, an orange spritz. Yes, a spritz. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, orange soda, which I think is much more of a thing in the South than it is where I'm from. But like, you just have to be in a very specific mood for orange soda.

48:36Yeah, as being 13 years old. That's the mood.

48:38Joanna Robinson:I feel like once every three years, I want an orange soda and I get a Fanta and then I'm sated for another three years. Once every three years, we're all spiritually 13. You have to tap into your younger self. All right, you already noted that you think Anna was being a piece of shit and giving this girl money and offering her a place to stay. Anything else you want to say? What do you make of this girl's vibe? Like, how do you feel better? She's allegedly 16 years old. Yeah, I don't know if I believe that. That actress is 25 years old. That is a tough sell for me, honestly. I mean, clearly very suspicious.

49:08Yeah. You're meant to ask questions about every aspect of their interaction. What is her real name? What is her goal here? I really have no idea. I did laugh, though, a lot at RIP little homie about the toe.

49:21Joanna Robinson:Great texting work for her. So her texting work continues to be great. What did you make of Anna's impression of her teenage son via texting? Poor. Too much punctuation. Oh, the LOL and then a period after it? Are you kidding me? That's like, that's a German three smoking gun if I've ever seen one. Wouldn't believe it for a second. Yeah. Anything else you want to say about that scene? I do have something kind of about this scene, but really more broadly about the Zack storyline here. Because Anna is kind of questioning, like, what did you do? Like, how are you involved potentially with this stuff that has been happening with my son, with the toe?

49:53Joanna Robinson:Yeah. Yeah. I know Zach is doing disaffected teenage boy very convincingly. Very well. That kid is as unbothered by the fact that he may have bitten off and ingested his own toe as I think any human being could conceivably be. Why is he being so chill about all this? Based on interviews that this actor gave, he's described, he's like, the things I have to do this season are wild. So I think he's like, the actor is calibrating of what he has to like build up to. Oh, it's going to get worse. He's like, I have to eat my whole hand later. So, you know. I really, really hope not. Yeah, Nevaeh. Like, we don't know what her motivation is, if it's actually targeted and personal to the Bowdens.

50:34Joanna Robinson:Yeah. If Zach was just a good customer and she's pissed, so she'll like turn their nice preppy soccer star daughter against them or what's going on. I did think their conversation, I mean, there's a lot of questionable writing in the show. but I thought the conversation of like that she has later with Natalie where it's like everything you have is on loan and you're in debt and the only way to pay it is with good grades and soccer and all this sort of stuff like that like I thought that was like a really good scene really well written agreed and the kind of thing that would prod Natalie in just the right way into acting a little bit out as far as the theory of is Nevaeh actually related to Max in any way I think we're probably going to come down on no I would say it doesn't dissuade me the fact that she looks at a picture of this man and was like yeah I definitely definitely fuck him because that is what kind of show this is.

51:22Joanna Robinson:True. But she really, she did not seem to me to know, not just like, I'm acting like I don't know him. Like she genuinely seemed to not know him. I don't think she knew him. I also think we've given notes to Anna, the mother, Anna, the detective. If you're going to show a picture of somebody to someone and ask if they're familiar, don't pull up the Google image result that says like, Max Katie in text right under the photo. I just think she could have done a slightly better, a slightly better job of not leading the witness. You know what? You're right. Okay. Max shows up, cuts a tomato, cuts up in the kitchen.

51:58Joanna Robinson:Like really great stuff from Javier Bardem in the scene when he's like eating the sandwich. He's like, we knocked on the door. Your son answered the door. Like all of it, I thought was really, really good. This is like, this is why we're here. This is it. This is why we're here. This is the vibe. This is the exact energy I wore from Javier Bardem all season. Yeah. And also I've just never been more convinced that that cat's going to die as when he feeds it a little piece of turkey. We've been worried about peanut butter from the start, but when he dropped a little piece of turkey. Now, you were wondering if that piece of turkey was poison.

52:24Joanna Robinson:I think it's just him ingratiating himself to the cat. Not since, but when you first saw it hit the counter. It was a flickering thought of like, is the cat going to die right now while they're on the road trip? We have seven more episodes to go, Rob. You got to face these things out. Yeah. But that cat, I am quite worried about the cat. Just toast. Okay. Anna is excited to sit down with these private prison folks make them eat shit yeah um I do want to shout out Patrick Wilson okay we've gotten a lot of emails about Amy Adams accent on this show we are eternally Amy Adams defenders we are I don't mind the accent personally but I do want to admire when Patrick Wilson's delivery of like he doesn't know anything like he did a really good job with the don't know yeah he doesn't know anything I find honestly with all the actors, there are moments where they have the accent.

53:15Margarita LaViva like dropping her G's left and right in a way that like drinking ain't having an affair basically. Little moments of like, okay, this is kind of fun and then it's just like will disappear. For all of these actors, it just vanishes without a trace.

53:28Joanna Robinson:Someone sat in a room and wrote down drinking ain't having an affair.

53:34Joanna Robinson:All right, Nathalie gets droned while she's doing yoga. Drones, here's, I'm out on any drones at all whatsoever. I think all drones should be banned. That's how I feel. A bold stance. What about the war ones? You think those are good? Hilarious. War especially. But I'm just saying like it is absolutely insane that people are allowed to put a camera on a thing and just send it anywhere. Just the thing you can do. We used to, I haven't had it happen in LA, but when I lived in Oakland, like people would just like hover drones outside your windows like all the time. You're just like, what the fuck?

54:09Joanna Robinson:Why are you allowed to do that? Like, how is that in itself not stalking? Right, exactly. Terrifying. I'm glad we're tapping into some of the technological terror with this version of Cape Fear. Because yeah, there's just a lot of parts of modern life that I'm not down for. I just don't think there's like, I've not seen a use for drones that is enough to justify their existence. Dumb shots in movies that we used to accomplish with helicopters. I don't know. More choppers. Yeah, bring back the choppers. We love those gas guzzling choppers. Screw the environment. All right. Anything you want to say about, well, what about the station wagon?

54:46Joanna Robinson:So we see Juliette Lewis in the station wagon before we see anything else. And Max seems to, she's like, Anna's like, do you recognize that car? Max's like, no. You don't think we should take his word for it? He's being so honest about everything else. Can we carbon date that car? That looks like a 1980s car to me. It does look very 1980s. I mean, honestly, it could predate even that though. It's one of the few things we actually do know about Juliette Lewis's character at this point. Don't know who she is. Don't know what she's after. Clearly has enough familiarity with Max to know the whole butthole surfer, dog collar situation, and drives a station wagon.

55:16Joanna Robinson:Butthole surfer, dog collar situation at gmail.com. So when they're in the conference room and Anna is doing her lawyering thing, and there's a literal storm of brewing outside in Atlanta. What did you think of all that? Of the setup? I think most, I mean, clearly it's meant to bog them down to have more time to spend together as they have to huddle up in the motel. And really, I think just setting up Tabitha for extremely convincing 60-40, this woman is either having the ride of her life or being murdered. And so we're getting a lot of like - Do you think Dusty is capable of the ride of your life kind of stuff?

55:54Joanna Robinson:We've really seen him do a lot. We know that he speaks when spoken to. He's kept in his cage most of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He knows how to take an order. I assume there's a reason Tabitha keeps him around. Okay. And I don't know that his camera work is it, but maybe it is. I think for motel sex on the road, Dusty can come through for you. He can do the job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah, this storm is a Bruin. I thought the look that he gives her when she touches him was like, I think they were in love. I do. I think they were not only like Boney, I think they were like in love. Yeah.

56:30And he is not only like angry

56:32Joanna Robinson:at the way she betrayed him legally. But like, okay, when they have their coffee conversation, he's like, you know, when you first saw me and you believed in me and you were defending me and then something changed. Something shifted. What do you think that thing is? I have no idea. Like maybe it is that she found out a certain truth about him relative to the murder or not and her whole opinion of him changed. But that's not really how she's acting right now. You don't think it's a positive pregnancy test? I mean, it could be the positive pregnancy test, but would that alone be enough to completely shift her mood around him?

57:04Joanna Robinson:Yeah, well, I think it could be enough to insert some doubt of just sort of like, it's one thing to defend someone. It's another thing to have a child with someone that you think might have done something like this. Yes, well, also someone who, even if the best case scenario of this plea goes down, is like the father of your child is going to prison for 20 plus years. Right. Not exactly convenient for a mother in her position. So like maybe there's enough reason to want to create a buffer. Put him away. And kind of like negotiate that as best she can under the circumstances, clearly. not super well though.

57:33Joanna Robinson:Do you think if she was pregnant with his child and that's who Natalie is do you think he knows? We have not seen him like barely even look at Natalie. Sub question do you think Tom knows? I don't think Tom knows. I think that's the main secret Anna's keeping from Tom. But okay so Anna's keeping a secret from Tom. Tom and Anna are keeping a secret together from Max and they address that briefly in the sense of like Yes. Legal collusion of some sort. Some kind of collusion or something else related to it. Yeah, I kind of think he does not know that Natalie is his child. I don't know how he would unless he just put together the timetable.

58:10Joanna Robinson:Yeah, I think he's going to find out before the season is over. Okay, great. Anything else you want to say about Tabitha, her purse booze, the ride of her life, her not wanting to be doing social media when she's in her 40s? That was a great line delivery from the Baryshnikov offspring. I'm enjoying her. She's just trying to make it in a dying industry. I found her very relatable in this episode I'm enjoying her industry you know like she's just trying to make it happen everyone's wearing blue in the show it's not just Amy Adams and Javier Bardem who are wearing literally the exact same shirt oh also Rob and I are thinking of entering our linen button down era do you think we could debating do you think we could pull them off I told Rob I thought he might look too country lawyer I might look too like soccer mom I'm not sure I think you could definitely pull it off I have many concerns lawyer and otherwise about my general linen appeal if you do think we could pull off linen button downs.

59:01Joanna Robinson:Where should we procure them? I don't know that L.L. Bean is the route. How do we make them look not rumpled? I'm still trying to figure it out. Help us out. But Tabitha's wearing like what I would describe as like a Best Buy blue polo for this trip. And I'm like, we can do better. But everyone's wearing blue. Like once you start looking for the blue, it's like when we did True Detective. Teal Watch is off the charts. I just think putting Tabitha on the geek squad is incredibly rude. She put herself on the geek squad. She's trying to dress semi-professionally to get this documentary series off the ground.

59:32Joanna Robinson:May I interest her in a linen button down? Maybe so. Okay. I did love, though, in the coffee conversation, the way that Max flips even this$4.2 million settlement into something against Anna. It's like, yeah, you got me all this money, but if we worked it out year by year and also we took the fees and the taxes, like, you still owe me, kind of being the subtext of that for me. And I love the way that Javier Bardem can kind of inject and invert those sorts of conversations as an actor. I think that's right. We had a connection. I mean, do you ship it? I'm unclear. Look, at this point, what do we actually know about Max Cady?

1:00:12It's been released from prison, exonerated. Single-handedly grabbing the private prison industrial complex by the balls. I gotta say we're pro.

1:00:23Joanna Robinson:Beat up some Nazis. We love that. Beat up some Nazis? Yeah. Has he done anything wrong that we have actually seen? Yeah, great question. Cut the tomato with the wrong knife, I guess, as Dave's ego. Or one that is so wrong, it's right. Licked that lady's face. Yeah. That one wasn't great. But she also didn't seem great, you know? Winnie Wilson did not seem great. Didn't like her vibe, not saying you should lick ice cream off her face or threaten to strangle her, but she didn't seem great. Anything else you want to say about Natalie at the party? I have many things to say about Natalie at the party.

1:00:56I just think on the drone front, the only thing worse than stalking someone via drone is stalking someone via drone, hacking their phone, and then pretending that they themselves orchestrated an entire drone photo shoot of their ass doing yoga to post for themselves online as a thirst trap.

1:01:16Joanna Robinson:Natalie, great form on your downward dog. It's not your fault. But this is evil. This is a work of true evil. This is really tough. So did you interpret that Nevaeh slash Angel X. She's shown herself to be, and I would like to say, we got some emails of people being like, and you were questioning me. You're like, how much can Max Kitty accomplish in like World of Warcraft expertise and all this other stuff from the internet time he has in prison? Yeah. And Anna was like, said the same thing I did, which is there's internet in prison. There is, but there's like a dial-up modem in there. We were both wrong and it's fine.

1:01:53Joanna Robinson:but given that there is like some kind of tech savvy person behind a lot of what's going on here Nevaeh seems like a good candidate for that I'm glad you brought that up because yeah she seems like she could be tech savvy she also seems I mean she has access to a lot of drugs could have been drugging Zach definitely is offering Natalie some stuff if you're just keeping track at home this is now she has done maybe toe stuff with Zach definitely thumb stuff with Natalie I don't like where this is going personally but I raised to you as we negotiate the possibility of witch drugs, as we're saying, if she is our hacker, potentially you could have gotten into Natalie's Instagram account.

1:02:29Is she a techno pagan? Is that something we should consider?

1:02:32Joanna Robinson:Where does she dangle it? Great question. I would love if she was a techno pagan. Would you have to give up your witch possum theory if she is a techno pagan? I would have to put the witch possum to rest unless somehow a techno pagan is capable of resurrecting a possum to do its will. I mean, every good technopagan needs a familiar. That is true. Okay, listen. Love that you've introduced this concept to me. I weirdly believe her when she says the toe stuff didn't happen on my watch. Okay. I think she's out here seducing teens and feeding them drugs, perhaps to directly fuck with the Bowdoin family or just to have good business.

1:03:11Joanna Robinson:I don't think the toe stuff was her. But how is it good? Is it she's getting free samples and hoping that they get hooked? on thumb drugs? I think Zach on thumb drugs. I do think that Zach was like paying for the drugs eventually don't you think? I don't know. I don't know what their arrangement was. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, first thumb's free. The first thumb is free. I also got a huge kick out of if this is indeed Nevaeh has set up the drone, hacked Natalie's account, positioned herself at the party to opportunistically throw someone's phone into the pool. If all that is true and walked by angrily not acknowledge Natalie at all.

1:03:48Oh, a great hug. Hey, what's your name? Dramatic pause. Swelling, angry strings. Amber, what's yours?

1:03:56Joanna Robinson:Amber's the color of your energy. Amber! That's a survivor reference which you don't get. That's fine. It's not. Anything else you want to say? I did think to wrap up the scene, poolside bisexual lighting. That was a new one for me and that to me is innovation. Seeing Amber and Natalie together during their thumb sucking smooch session. Was the blue like reflecting off the pool? Exactly. And then sort of like the pink lavender was coming from elsewhere? It immediately was more red than pink. Okay. So maybe I'm straining the actual definition. But I think if you're getting a red blue contrast, warm and cold, you're at least in the ballpark.

1:04:33Joanna Robinson:It's June. Happy pride to bisexual pool. Yeah. All right. Callie sucks. I did like that it was Sophia's brother who was like, hey, did you send this to everyone? Relishing. You know, everyone gets a little like shading inside of their shitty behavior. So he's like, didn't your brother, what did he say? Bite his own dick off? What did he say? Yeah, have a meltdown and bite his own dick off. Great, great stuff. The rumor mill has been very active. Anything else you want to say? I think this was just a phenomenally something episode of TV. I don't know what it is, but boy, do I love talking about it.

1:05:11Joanna Robinson:We're not just going to talk about it. Here on the Prestige TV podcast feed, we have decided to enter our unhinged theory board era. So if you're watching this on video, on Spotify, on YouTube, wherever you want to, we'll be back right after this with a special visual segment of this podcast. All right, so you can listen to the segment if you want to, but it is a very visual-based segment. We have composed, what would you call this, Rob? A conspiracy board. A conspiracy board for Cape Fear of all shows. Cape Fear, it's a show that we're watching. And we have procured a cork board and we've got character names and important facts and we've purchased red string and it will be red stringed before all this is said and done.

1:05:52It will be strung.

1:05:53Joanna Robinson:Many strings. Which area do you think most captures your inner derangement? It's like the combo of blue linen shirts. Clearly. And creepy tattoos. Creepy tattoos is very good. Yeah. We should note, this is really your vision, your penmanship in particular. Just immaculate. I did do this. You did contribute some suggestions, of course. This is how we've decided to format it. We've got main characters up here, persons of interest over there. Julia Lewis, if she ever gets a character name, we will put the character name over there. Miscellaneous. And then these are just some key things that are happening that everything will probably be like routed and connected to.

1:06:35In case fear standards, these are themes. This is the best we got.

1:06:39Joanna Robinson:How about you? Do you have like a favorite section of this board? I mean, I told you earlier, but when you said kind of a preview of what the board might look like. The little sad face on No Friends under Zach, it didn't really get to me. But also, we got a lot of our favorites over here. We have Savannah Coffee Roasters represented. Yeah, yeah. We have the witch stuff and the dog stuff and the butthole surfers and the possum. Yeah, it's a lot going on. It's hard not to gravitate toward miscellaneous. There's a few things that we haven't put on that sort of occurred to us while we were recording this episode, like the kitchen knife, Chekhov's nail gun.

1:07:09Joanna Robinson:You know, so there's a few things that are missing here, but we want to ask our listeners. Please. please write in thinkofababycarrot at gmail.com or prestigetv at spotify.com if you have a suggestion for an item that should go on here we're not taking input on how this is laid out because this is the finish we're not doing this again what about yarn color you know like we were thinking red do we want to take input from I mean the real conspiracy borders out there well I was wondering if maybe we should do like a teal blue because it's such a teal blue show it is a very teal show you know or maybe green red is so classic red is classic but to me when I think conspiracy board I always think you think of Carrie Matheson I think of Carrie Matheson I think of my kingdom for a green pen well we need a lot of highlighters if we're gonna do that without a doubt okay so is it Carrie Matheson is it Charlie from It's Always Sunny is it True Detective what kind of conspiracy board are we doing email us by the end of this season all of those people are gonna seem healthier than you do email us help us fill out the board.

1:08:13Joanna Robinson:We'll be back with the stringed up version of this next week. This is a real thing we're doing. We are professional adults and that's fine. Yep. This is work. Anything else you want to say? I just could not be happier that this show is kicking into a gear that we were hoping, but I don't know that I fully expected. And I'm so glad we're here. Ethan Embry's here. That's very important to me personally. Thank you to Kai Grady, Dev Rinaldo, Jacob Cornett, Office Depot. Certainly. basically a sponsor of this show at this point, even though we're giving them money. Rob's tomato cutting tips, linen button downs.

1:08:48Truffle pigs.

1:08:49Joanna Robinson:And Rob Mahoney. Thank you, Joe. Thanks. We'll see you soon. Bye.

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