‘Cape Fear’ Episode 6: The Bowden Backrooms

19:36Joanna Robinson:Nor does Anna really believe it. Nope. She's like, what did happen, Tom? What's on those messages? It's funny. He didn't talk about the rubbing, you know, rub it up against me. All right. Again, me, um, Natalie's drinking while doing college applications. Yeah. I owe you an apology about the drinking problem situation. We are all on board with that now. Well, I think before we saw her take a little swig. Yeah, sure. Now she's working on her night sweats. I mean, she's like three swell bottles deep into vodka at this point. Things have escalated. Okay. I love the like clink of the bottle. Like after she's vomited on Tom and then it's like the telltale clink of the bottle of just sort of like there's nothing like a clink of a bottle to expose a drinking habit.

20:21Joanna Robinson:I do think that Natalie drinking while doing her college applications is like a pretty relatable content. I was not a drinker at that time in my life, but I wish I had had a flask of vodka while I was doing my college applications. I think the essays go down more smoothly. I think. A little shot here and there. Oh my gosh, my like, my joie de vivre that would have come through in my personal statement. Just the right amount of like, I care about this, but not too much. Let me casually work in all of my community service. As one does. Yeah, absolutely. Zach creeps into the room. Yep. Do you think he was actually there?

20:54Well, this is so kind of revealed to be a sort of dream, maybe.

20:59Joanna Robinson:Well, but later she's like, I dreamt you were there, but now I really think you were. And like Nevaeh appears and we think that's a dream. but now knowing that Nevaeh was in the walls, that could have been her. I think maybe Zach was there and did stick his tongue in her mouth. I thought it was his thumb. Sorry, his tongue. His thumb. Yeah, sorry. No, no, no, no. Let's rewind that. His thumb in her mouth. Do you think that was Zach or do you think that was A.I. Slop Adam who stuck his thumb? I think that was A.I. Slop Adam as Zach. His thumb in her mouth. The second thumb in her mouth, I guess, or is it the third?

21:29How many thumbs have been in Nat's mouth this season? Just the two? That's already, that's too many already.

21:33Joanna Robinson:Yeah, absolutely. I do love Tom's reaction when she vomits on him, which is just like, which is like, even if you're a really good dad, you can go like, it's the best you could do. When someone vomits on you. But on the Nat and Zach front. Yeah. Why does every character in the show have the memory of a goldfish? Like last week, she had him in a headlock because he was antagonizing her and like maybe doing witchy stuff with her would-be girlfriend. Right. And now she's just like, oh, I'm so relieved to see you. I was so scared it was going to be somebody else. also like can I one of the most annoying parts of this episode and I liked this episode but I think the moment I was most annoyed by someone which is weird because it's not the same as the too dumb to live move which I think is very clear in this episode but like when Anna was just like be nice to your brother to Natalie over and over again I mean she was drugged at the time but I was just like shut the fuck up Anna Zach well it it continues the theme of they really only care about Zach and even then they're not good parents to Zach yeah Nah, be nice to your brother who stalks into your room at night and shoves his thumb in your mouth while you're just simply trying to drunkenly do your college applications.

22:43Joanna Robinson:It's really tough. Max, Katie, I have some notes for his behavior in general in life. Yeah. Where do you want to start? No notes on his fits, though. He's wearing like cream linen slacks with like a striped linen shirt and then like a cream hat. Like this whole outfit is encreared, you know. And he gets these photos. tell us about the photos he gets I mean where do we want to start we got the cross at Cape Fear Lake I assume is what we're calling it sorry River Cape Fear River a snarling dog yeah distressing is it Romeo himself no it's a white dog that looks like it has been through some fights or some pain or some torture of some kind a photo of Max and Anna the dog cage itself and also a photo of Max and Wendy Wilson who you'll remember is the Max Katie super fan who desperately wanted to be an ice cream cone How could I forget Wendy Wilson?

23:36And then we get this message in the most disturbing handwriting I've seen in a long time.

23:41Joanna Robinson:On TV, you play the martyr. What if I tell the world what you did to me? Signed, C. Yeah. So, and amongst these photos, we also get a rerun of some of the flashbacks we've gotten before. Much emphasis on this dark-haired girl who seems to be part of his childhood growing up. So where are you on the Juliette Lewis? It's gotta be. Is his stepsister who was there when he was abused growing up. I mean, maybe adopted, maybe stepsister, who knows the relations exactly. And here signs off her note as just C. C. The letter C. So we will be changing her card on the board to at least C under Juliette Lewis.

24:22That feels like a safe assumption for us.

24:24Joanna Robinson:Then he calls someone and talks to him on the phone, an old man. and is like, what happened? She was institutionalized. I'm going to come down there. If you don't take care of this, what's going on? What's your read on all of this? Got to be his dad. Okay. Is there any other plausible explanation? That's, I mean, that's what I would think. Preacher dad. Preacher dad. Shitty preacher dad. Certainly. Abusive preacher dad. Doesn't even seem like a good preacher. Whose voice is that? Oh, I don't know. Okay. I have two theories. Okay. And I listened a couple times. Yeah. Either that's Robert De Niro.

24:58Joanna Robinson:I don't know. I don't think it is. It would be great. Or we have yet to see Ron Perlman, who is in the cast. It didn't sound like Ron Perlman to me, though. Maybe he degruffed. Yeah. Maybe he's like un-Hellboy'd his mouth. Maybe it's like there's that episode of The Nanny where Fran like drinks hot coffee or something and then all of a sudden loses her accent completely. Maybe it's like that. Your pop culture references are on point today. They're like very 1993, but they're on point. I can only be who I am. You can only be yourself. Okay, so Ron Perlman having drunk the magical nanny tea. Yes.

25:31Joanna Robinson:Now sounds like this. Could be. Okay. Do you buy Ron Perlman as Javier Bardem's father? Kind of think about the age discrepancy. I guess it would kind of check out. Okay. Also, just in terms of character actors you would love to see in this kind of role, Ron Perlman would be near the top of the list for me. We just haven't seen him yet. We're on episode six. if Ron Perlman is playing Ron Perlman of Sons of Anarchy and Hellboy fame et cetera et cetera Alien Resurrection Alien Resurrection if Ron Perlman is playing Javier Bardem's father and Ted Levine is playing Amy Adams like we have like two gruff legends in these father roles that's fun we salute our gruff kings yeah we do okay great would you would you say Ron Perlman is like of that horror universe I mean, Hellboy is, I guess, in the horror space.

26:24Joanna Robinson:For sure. And probably he's been in other horror movies that I'm not aware of. I think he definitely is. On Hellboy grounds alone. Okay. All right. Great. I love Hellboy. Okay. Yeah. You know, it seems to me pretty clear, especially also if we're back on the green theory, the girl in the, the brown haired girl in the flashback was wearing exclusively shades of green, which is once again, Juliette Lewis's signature color in this show. So that's disturbing and interesting. Are you disturbed and interested? Well, I'm looking at Ron Perlman's IMDB right now to fact check and double check our horror references.

26:57And I'm realizing I've actually never seen his appearance in the TV version of Beauty and the Beast, and maybe I need to.

27:03Joanna Robinson:Oh my God, where he plays the titular beast. That's what I'm saying. That's where I first met him. I mean, that's a horror story of a kind. Yeah. A monster kidnapping. It's Linda Hamilton. Wow. As the beauty. Just a couple of legends. I believe she plays a journalist. He lives in the sewer of modern day New York, I believe. And she plays a journalist. Very like April and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles coded, I believe. And then she like goes and she's like, who is this man? And then he like looks like Ron Perlman but hot and cat-like at the same time. Sounds good to me. Also, when are we doing our full rewatch on that?

27:33Joanna Robinson:I believe I, that has to be only one season. It's like, oh, we could do The Sopranos or Beauty and the Beast is right there. I was like, should we do The Sopranos this fall? And you're like, should we do Beauty and the Beast this fall? Counter. Something to think about. Equally, you know, legendary. Influential. In TV Canyon. I agree. I said canyon instead of canyon. All right. The toe is by Anna's sink. That's not where it will stay. Eventually, it will make its way into a sacrificial fire, burnt offering situation. You're Tom and Anna. You got the toe. You're just keeping it sink side right by the toothbrushes.

28:04Joanna Robinson:Where are you putting it? Anywhere else. In a drawer? I don't know. Out of plain view? In the trash? I don't want to be... In the recycling bin. Why would you want to be brushing your teeth looking at the toe? Why are we keeping the toe? I understand why Zach's keeping the toe because he's possessed by an AI slop atom or something like that, you know, but like, or a possum or something like that. If you are Anna and you found it in Nevaeh's possum bone alter maggot tomb, call it what it is, if you find it in the maggot tomb, I think you keep it for evidentiary reasons, right? Okay. Well, she didn't like put it in a baggie and like, you know, not smudge her fingerprints all over it.

28:41I mean, she's not good at any of her jobs.

28:44Joanna Robinson:No follow-up on the faith murder crime scene this episode. I guess the cops haven't found her yet. Again, nobody remembers ever what happened last week. The AC is not working. And Zach does not have a new therapist. Which of this feels more calamitous to you? Apparently the AC. Yeah, really tough. I'm glad that they have oscillating fans going, but where's the sense of urgency? It's Savannah in the summer, and it's August, right? Because they're talking about school starting soon. This is real. Dog days of summer. The AC isn't working. I feel like Tom, let's get on. Tom's really not good at the to-do list when it comes to fixing the tech in the house, I guess.

29:22He seems a little overwhelmed.

29:24Joanna Robinson:Do you think the AC is simply not working because there's a literal woman living in the walls or is it something else? Or the bossom. One of the two shook the connections loose. I'm not sure which, or maybe it was both. Or do you think the AC was like intentionally scuppered so that they would all want iced tea so that Zach could put LSD in the iced tea? I actually do think this is the case. I think it was sabotaged. Okay. I mean, why else would you get a gratuitous shot of literally every member of the family drinking a tall glass of iced tea at exactly the same time? What's tea o 'clock? I don't know what the Savannah customs are.

29:57Joanna Robinson:Maybe everyone has iced tea in the afternoon. Sweet tea in the afternoon. Sounds like something that could happen. I mean, my experience living in even the Texas version of the South is that people are just drinking sweet tea all the time. I can't do sweet tea. It's a lot. I mean, it's like, and I'm talking full Kool-Aid levels of sugar. Like really, really rev you up. I support their culture, but I can't do it. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The T-Mobile Home Run Derby is right around the corner. Might be one of the best showcases of pure power in all sports. Baseball's biggest sluggers, along with some legendary announcers.

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31:35Joanna Robinson:The journey begins. See her light up the night in the sea. She calls me. The ocean chose you. Let's go save the world. I got your back chosen one. Disney's Moana. Boats neck. His name is Hey Hey. His name is Yum Yum. When he goes in my tum tum. Game theaters July 10th. Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested. Natalie goes to get more booze. And Max finds her. The podcaster who's essentially the paparazzi finds her. This guy. This podcaster. You know, and Max gives him a talking to. It gives him like a kind of gentle, comical little kick in the butt. Yeah. Like a nice little gentle kick in the rear.

32:14I wrote it as a go on git.

32:15Joanna Robinson:Yeah. Very Texas of you. Go on git. I have a potential choice for a line read of the episode. Please. That's not water. That's not water. That was mine. Yeah. I think the only options are that's not water. Or whatever like little thing he does when he's pretending not to be a villain. Also, when Tom says, you took peanut butter? I just think Patrick Wilson delivered that really well. Actually, these are all great nominees. I do have a definitive pick that is none of the above and I'm going to save it until we get a little later in the episode. Is it honey, honey, honey? It's not that that is also great.

32:55I guess here's the question. With this category, is it strictly the line read or is it also the stupidity of the character involved sometimes? It's just the ridiculous thing that they say.

33:05Joanna Robinson:Okay. I had always thought of it as delivery, but I'm open to other options. And I also just don't want to pick Javier Bardem every single week. And he like sings half of his lines. And so it's hard not to pick him, but. He is vibrating at a frequency in this episode that I don't think many people in our plane of existence can access. I genuinely thought that dinner scene was like fantastic. Wonderful. Really good. Also, whoever made the decision to give him the Red Heart sunglasses, amazing. Immaculate. And he has like the De Niro style, like almost aviators for part of this episode. episode.

33:36But I think anytime we get the red hard glasses, just kicks it up another level.

33:40Joanna Robinson:And then the whole thing went red and it was quite scary. Okay. Zach is the first Bowdoin we see sipping tea. With a creepy smile. Yeah. I didn't write this down. Natalie gets in the car with Max. Yes. Drives her back. He sobers her up. He buys her coffee. This is my too dumb to live. Really? Yeah. Not like getting it, knowing that he moved across, you know, and she like mentions it. She's like stalker. He moved across the street. But like everything she's heard about Max Katie, I understand that we set up from the beginning that she's like doubting what Anna and Tom did and stuff like that. But I just feel like there's just so much evidence at this point that like she's so dumb for getting in the car with him.

34:21I'm not going to pretend it's a smart decision. I think I have a lot of latitude for teenage characters in shows making dumb decisions. She is drunk. She is a drunk teenager. I would not say like well-considered thought is really in her wheelhouse right now. But also like she is inclined because of her age and her circumstances and frankly, the fact that her parents are lying about everything through their teeth all the time to think, oh, you're blowing this out of proportion. Like this is a guy who, yes, is a little weird and a little offbeat. But is he really so bad as he seems? I think that would be a pretty normal teenage response.

34:54Joanna Robinson:I'm not getting in that car, Rob. Nor am I. It sounds like you might get in that car. I'm not getting in the car. But also we should just know, I think really the value of having her in the car is showing that beyond just being willing to get into the first place and have this conversation, even after all the warnings, like Natalie is clearly charmed by him in a way, in a different way than the other movies. Yeah. But like there is a connection and like a warmth. A fascination for sure. I also thought that the shot was really good of like them with sitting in the rain as one does at the end of August, I guess, in Savannah.

35:32Joanna Robinson:Like you could just see the green through the like sunroof and the windshield. Like the camera sort of tilted up. I thought that was like a really cool framing of it. Back to Zach, sipping the tea. He's got a lava lamp and a jellyfish lamp. It's too many lamps. I had a lava lamp as a high schooler, and I feel like it's a great thing for a high schooler to have. If I'm Anna and Tom, we're cutting it at one novelty lamp. That's fair. Jellyfish lamp. You can't get rid of those things, too. They're with you for life, you know? I actually don't know what happened to my... Well, the chemicals they're in.

36:03Yeah. I mean, you have to take to like a waste disposal site.

36:06Joanna Robinson:The absolute like scales falling from your eyes moment when first you take the cap off of a lava lamp, and it's just like a bottle cap. And you're just like, oh. The magic in the universe is gone. Absolutely. Oh, it's just some goo that you heated up. I see. And it's just like a light bulb at the bottom of it. And you're just like, wow. Where's the magic in this life? It's so sad. Did you have a Lava Loop? No, but I had the same moment when a friend's revealed themselves in the same way. I was like, really? It's tough to see. This is it? Tough to see. Anna's taking her anger management class. We didn't get a lot of lead up to this, but I don't feel like we need to.

36:40Joanna Robinson:Like Anna's been sent home from work. She has to take anger management classes. Mandated training. Right. And also yet another, like, we're not so different, you and I, with her. And, you know, we get this runner with Max in this episode in the flashbacks of, like, what do you do with this rage? Right? Clearly, Anna has some of the same problems. Kill Nazis. Yeah. And I'm like, no. I think that's a pretty healthy use. Pretty good. Macro dosing.

37:09The macro dosing is unreal.

37:12Joanna Robinson:Macro dosing LSD. How do you feel about it? First of all, we get a micro dosing line repeat. Although this time from Patrick Wilson. Yeah. Very much appreciated. The G is definitely dropped when he says it. Oh, I mean, this whole sequence was spectacular. I would like to take us through a tour very quickly, though, of like, whose acid trip acting did you appreciate the most? Oh, okay. Like, who did you think were the real standouts here? I mean, I would say this might be my favorite bit of acting from Amy Adams all season. Hard agree. Really agree. having not spent a lot of time around people tripping on acid nor having tripped on acid myself I might be very wrong but this is accurate I have no interest in authenticity I do not but it was entertaining I want whatever brew of like kind of sinister kind of checked out kind of like floating in a different galaxy that Amy Adams is bringing in the sequence I also wrote this is the best she's been in the entire show I mean Lily Coleus has to be during this episode both drunk acting I think to like varying effect at various points.

38:12It's a little spotty. And then here like tripping acting. I don't know that she was necessarily a standup, but I did love Patrick Wilson just smelling a kitchen towel.

38:20Joanna Robinson:Patrick Wilson, also the fact that Tom, when he is a macro dosan, is like, should I show the world my guns? Should I roll my sleeves on my already short sleeve shirt so that you can see my muscles? I would like to. He tried, but he got outswold. Javier Bardem is jacked. Oh, oh. When he's lifting up peanut butter. I mean, because the outdoor fit is cream. The indoor fit is black. Yes. Villain on the inside playing. Good and evil. Just like Savannah coffee roasters. Playing martyr on the outside. Martyr in the streets. Villain in the sheets. But yeah, he's got the black tank top on and the guns are out.

38:56Joanna Robinson:Blazing. And Tom came over with like skin tight polo shirt. And it just wasn't enough. And he's like, oh no. It was a knife to a gunfight. Really tough. All right. so the drug trip happens did you notice the aspect ratio shift? I mean I love an aspect ratio shift. Okay I missed it Kai is the one who's like hey I missed the aspect I know and I usually I feel like I'm usually on top of it but I missed it. Do you want to explain to the audience? I mean there's not there's not a lot to walk through in the same way that your pupils might dilate the aspect ratio of the show shifts as they start noticing that hey the walls are moving.

39:30Joanna Robinson:It's when Anna like starts to see the wallpaper moving and in my defense I feel like I was distracted by the wallpaper coming to life and me being like oh they've been macro dosed but the accent ratio shifts up as every single other person in the world notices except for me and stays that way through the trip like the letterbox bars goes away from slut got your tongue yeah slut got your tongue maybe that's the line reading of the episode that was quite good slut got your tongue it was quite good really good is that the moment when you realized something was wrong when she said slut got your tongue well yeah I mean it's It's clearly an escalation.

40:08Anna's been so like hemmed in. Yeah. But intentionally all season. Like this is someone who clearly, maybe by her own admission during her trip, about like how her whole life has been an overcorrection. Like feels so bottled.

40:20Joanna Robinson:Yeah. It doesn't seem like she would necessarily pop out the slut got your tongue, but. Here we are. You know. Here we are. An aggrieved Amy Adams. It's possible that Dr. Anita at the anger management course has witnessed a lot of these drug shenanigans. They're talking about taking the kids right in front of the web camera. I want to shout out Patrick Wilson's like approach to the laptop, smile wave, close the laptop moment. I thought it was quite good. Do you think they were on mute? Yeah, I do. Okay, so just video only. Dr. Anita seemed pretty chill. She's like, I just check in to make sure everything's okay.

40:51Joanna Robinson:Not like currently dialing 911 sort of situation. And then it's Natalie with the shotgun versus the drone. Yeah. Who won? This time it's personal. How'd that feel? It was really great. Yeah. For some reason, I laughed a lot when Natalie said, fuck, I hate drones. Every line read during the trip sequence, I think we could single out here. The it's from my supply, your acid supply. It's for micro dosing. It's for micro dosing. Don't have any disturbing thoughts. That had to me had real like don't think of elephants energy. When she says I'm 17 years sober in this like devastating, heartbreaking moment.

41:31Joanna Robinson:Yeah. Yeah. And she's terrified, like, that someone's going to take the kids away. Yeah, but like, what have you done to me? Like, because of your, I mean, it was Zach who did it to a certain degree. But by having that in the house, Tom opened her up to this. And this is what she said to him earlier when he's like, Max did this to me. And she's like, you did this by giving him ammunition. Right. Now, I would argue that taking Max to that snake house, not to mention letting him, not letting him, but like he smooched her in the park and stuff like that. She's given Max Katie plenty of ammunition to work with.

42:02So, you know. Don't take Max Katie to a snake house. Yeah.

42:07Joanna Robinson:A second location or a snake house or get in his car. Can we just walk through, I guess, like the fallout overall of the acid trip? I would love to. This is a classic. Everyone's on drugs. People start revealing things, kind of sequence to each other. So for one, just the idea. The stairs are too large for Natalie. First reveal, the stairs are too large. That's a problem. We got to downsize these stairs immediately. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole Tom has been micro-dosing this whole season reveal to Anna, clearly important. She was not aware of this information. Do you think she would have felt better if he was like Lexi?

42:41I don't think under the circumstances that would have helped.

42:44Joanna Robinson:Okay. We now have potentially new drone footage that could have been uploaded to the cloud, right? Before the shotgun shot. You got to be worried about the cloud always. Always. And I would say, too, we get a flicker on the newly installed security solutions at the Bowdoin house. Oh my God. That Natalie has now shot with a shotgun. And so I'm wondering, is it even functional anymore? Who knows? Great question. Nat revealing that she heard Anna say earlier this season, what if he knows what we did? Correct. Regarding Max Cady. Zach, obviously, he's just going to like eventually just walk out of the house as a result.

43:17I guess that's more of the fight after effects.

43:20Joanna Robinson:That's just long-term effects of being possessed by AI Slop Adam. He's going to be with his dad. Okay. Is there anything else from the sequence that is worth flagging as far as like lingering in the air after all these people have been tripping out of their minds. I don't think so. I think we really got there. Which takes, so Tom's like, let's hire someone to rough him up. And I do think Anna being like, all the criminals I know are innocent was really funny and really good. Yeah. And then the Bowdoins in there matching blue head over to Max's house. They do. Across the street. Does this feel like a good plan to you?

43:53So plan A is, what do you want to be in five years? Plan B is let's see if we can buy you off. Will you accept a large stack of money?

44:03Joanna Robinson:Right. Plan C, threats. Is that the extent of what they got to work with here? I really think they thought money would do it. Did not work. It did not work. Didn't go for it. The pig ears. Oh, also something I noted. I don't know if this is anything, but when they're walking up right by the shrubbery at the front of the building, there's like a shovel and a wheelbarrow and some disturbed dirt. So like, I don't know if he's like, What, a guy can't garden? If he's performing, I'm just a good neighbor to the neighbors being like, I'm out here in my hedges making like, you know, green things grow.

44:37Joanna Robinson:Or if he's actively burying something. I don't know. He has been sowing discord in the Bowdoin house. And I would say now propagating, fertilizing. Oh, it's a metaphor. I don't know. My plants are all dying. I'm not the source on this. How's your basil? Oh, look, the basil you can't kill, you know? The prayer plant, that one's thriving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of the others, they're not long for this world. I'm sorry to say. Do you want some gardening tips from our listeners? I don't know that they'll help. I've read all the gardening tips. I got to say, of all of the hobbies, gardening information on the internet, conflicts aplenty.

45:08Joanna Robinson:Well, it's really funny you say you can't kill basil. And I'm actually like, I feel like my basil is really thriving. But like, I've heard some people are like, I can't keep basil alive. And I'm like, but basil just tells you when it's upset. It just like wilts right away. And then you just give it water and then it's fine. Also, it just strangles any plant that's nearby. That's mint. That's really mint's job. Well, mint also too. It's true. Okay, this has been Gardening Corner with Rob and Joe. Well, while we're talking about acts of betrayal, do you take peanut butter's presence here to be any kind of betrayal?

45:32To peanut butter.

45:33Joanna Robinson:You can't force a cat. Is that true? Yeah. I've never had a cat. Is that true? You know that. But what? You know that. You couldn't pick up peanut butter and take him home? I feel like it depends how many pig ears peanut butter has been fed at this point. But like, you know, we saw it start, I don't know, it has to be a couple of weeks ago. Turkey's the gateway drug. Yeah, absolutely. Every time. Turkey to pig's ear, every time. But like, how long has he been feeding peanut butter little snacks? Loved Max's performance here. Oh, this is your cat? How weird. Came to my door. He's starving. You know what I mean?

46:03Joanna Robinson:He must not have been feeding it. Oh my God. He's starving. Look at him. Peanut butter. Really? The face that Javier Bardem gives. Holding out the cat. Peanut butter. Really? It's my knee now. Genuine high comedy. Really, really great. But you can't force a cat. If it were me, I would take the cat home. But I would know that I would get scratched and bit by my cat. doing that. Wow. It depends how long I've been neglecting my cat. And given that we've seen Tom and Anna just like not pay attention to their children, I can't imagine. It was only Natalie who was really like taking care of peanut butter and now he's been drunk for like a week.

46:35Joanna Robinson:Also a fair point. You know, I don't, I think cats can be seduced by food quite easily. And I love cats, but they're not dogs and you can't. Well, let's be real. Dogs can be seduced too. If you gave my dog enough treats, she would eat my face. That's not true. Dogs are loyal. They're loyal, but they're also loyal to the food, you know? Have you ever tried to force your cat to do something that it didn't take? Yeah, take it to the vet? Oh, just you're trying to take the cat to the vet and it won't go? Are you kidding me? I mean, my dog just walks to the vet. Are you kidding? It's not a problem.

47:06Are you kidding me, Rob? I don't know. You could have a dog.

47:08Joanna Robinson:That's real masculinity. I was just taking my dog to the vet down the street. No, you try to put a cat in the carrier to go to the vet. The cat knows exactly what's happening. The cat will like hide in recesses you've never knew existed in your house. You have to like tear apart the whole house. I've been like, I've gone into the vet just like completely scratched. Also at the vet, my cat is like a problem. They have to put on like thick rubber. Your cat's on a list? Thick rubber gloves to handle my cat. And they're like, we suggest drugging her next time. So I have to drug my cat to take her to the vet.

47:38Joanna Robinson:So yeah. If you are a vet or a vet tech who has access to Joe's cat's records, I would love to see what's on the chart. I would love to see the notes on there. I'm sure they've written Prestigetv at Spotify.com. I'm sure they're like, fuck this cat. Gabapentin is the answer for getting the cat to the vet. Anyway, this has been Pet Owner and Gardening Corner with Rob and Joe. I feel like this is a true cat behavior. You can't force a cat. Absolutely. What did you make of this story of Lila? Yeah. Is this a real thing that happened? Is this code for Anna? Or is this code for his sister? I thought it was code for his sister.

48:19Okay. Where the names have been changed to protect the people involved and also any resemblance to real life circumstances are merely coincidence. So the story, if you may not recall from this episode, is there's a girl who thought she was better than everyone who basically like tortures this young boy or I mean, could be a boy of any age, I guess, until she eventually like falls in love with him.

48:39Joanna Robinson:Yeah. And then the boy like enacts his revenge. He warps her disdain into desire. Yes. Right. And then uses that because he wants to extract his revenge in pain over time and like becomes horror torture in a way. And so he says, when someone really wrongs you, you find your way and you take your time to make that someone feel the way you felt, which is a total loss of control. Yeah. This to me feels like it's probably more Juliette Lewis, aka C, as we think we know her now, coded, than it would be Anna. But I could see it with Anna being like someone who, you know. But why would Anna have like tortured him?

49:14Why would she have like...

49:14Joanna Robinson:Well, in his mind, torture. But like if she came in with an attitude of I'm better than you. Could see that. You know? and then he's like, oh, she doesn't think too highly of me. She's taking this case, but she doesn't think well of me. I'm going to make her desire me, and then I'm going to use that against her somehow. I don't know. I could see it going either way. Well, there's certainly enough allusion to desire or connection as far as Max and Anna's past. Like, Max is really needling them both during these sequences, right? Oh, I mean, because Tom's like, did you fuck him? Yes. Like, absolutely.

49:47Joanna Robinson:The surrogate thing was so funny. It was really good. Because like him being like, oh, there's like an age limit, right? Like. Fucked up. Fucked up. Especially after he's just like shoved his tongue down the throat of Honey, who is much younger, obviously. His tongue. I mean, he's devouring that woman. Yeah. Did you get the sense when you I was trying to parse when he's like, who else? Who else? Oh, I think the implication is pretty clear. What is your? I think the implication is Natalie. Yeah. Then he's just like, I'm just going to throw this out there and let it hang in the air. Yeah, yeah. That was my read as well.

50:21Let you two squirm for a minute before I say this is a joke.

50:25Joanna Robinson:Kidding. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. But yeah, the precursor to that is what do I want? I want to be reunited with my family. Help me recreate my family. Yeah. You could help me recreate my family perhaps by letting me borrow the vessel that is Zach's body. Yeah. All kinds of vessels available, I guess. Wow. And then, you know, he kicks him out. He's like, get the fuck out of my house. Yeah. Like, let's do it again. I loved all of this. Like, what do neighbors talk about? Let's do it again. You guys can host. Get the fuck out of my house. A very Cape Fear cigar. The De Niro cigar shot is straight out of Cape Fear.

50:56Joanna Robinson:Absolutely. I loved this. I thought this was fantastic. And then we get the Padrino, secondary Padrino flashback where we get the fact that he killed the Padrino who had, I guess, offered him up to the Nazis. Thrown him to the wolves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything else you want to extract out of that? I think it's just kind of a continuation of the same. Did it feel like betray me, I will kill you sort of thing or the erosion of more trust. I put my trust in this powder, you know, to like carry me through this thing. And then I found out that he's the one who offered me up or something like that.

51:28I think you can see the seedlings here of this idea of like this. You're really in your garden metaphor. I really am. I'm sorry. But this like religious figure. Taking root in him. Just wrapping like a vine, you know, bringing him in, like selling him this vision of his religion that is like based in the idea of like, like suppress your anger. And then to find out that that person has been manipulating you the whole time, I think you can see how Max might get to this like twisted version of like, I'm going to take these core teachings, but I'm going to channel them the way I want. Very dark side kind of stuff.

52:01Joanna Robinson:So you're like reasonable. Max is a reasonable reaction. I think some of the things he asks for in this episode, like, hey, two lawyers who are now married. One of them was my prosecutor. One of them, my defense attorney. could you issue a public apology and maybe not practice law again? That actually seems like a very reasonable request. I don't disagree. Okay, so the promise that Padrino gives him is like, you're going to see your dead loved ones. And we see glossy banged Melissa and A.I. Slop Adam. Yeah. But in last week's episode, when Juliette Lewis's character, C, says like, I reached out for you.

52:33Joanna Robinson:And he says that was you. Do you feel like, I mean, I don't think she was, but do you feel like in that moment he's like, oh, I thought I was seeing my wife and my son, but maybe I was actually seeing this woman. You know what I mean? Yeah, I could definitely see that. If he's like, I had these visions and she's like, it was me. Do you know what I mean? Like in that like really weird state that they're like trance that they're both in in the cigar locker, aka the human door. I don't know. I was just thinking about that moment. That would definitely check out to me. So the first time we see him really interact with this idea of seeing his dead wife and unborn son who is now a teenager, is while he's getting like brain surgery performed on him with local anesthetic, which is some truly wild shit.

53:18Joanna Robinson:We got to keep you awake during brain surgery. Yeah, while I do my cartoonishly like Dr. Frankenstein drill rev into the shadow. And then I'm going to put you into a coma. It all makes sense to me. Okay. So supposedly he sees his wife and son then. Then he sees them again, as you alluded to. If you're a brain surgeon who is somehow watching Cape Fear and listening to this podcast. It might be. think of a baby care at gmail.com is this how brain surgery is done do you ask them to recite a nursery rhyme and then also clarify that it needs to be in English so you can understand yeah and then secondarily when they when he is kind of first converting and at the altar and they're all reciting these chants that's when he sees the immaculate bangs right the sacred bangs and then yeah I guess supposedly again in his dreams maybe many times since then and I just think this checks out where if a random kid gave you a drawing that it's suspiciously like the version of your son you have seen in your head.

54:12Some dots are connecting here.

54:16Joanna Robinson:So when he was talking to Tom at the country club or gentlemen's club, whatever you prefer, and he's like, the thing I really want more than anything, like if I could have a moment to connect with my son again, like I would do it. And then this through line into recreate, like, do we believe that that's true? Or is this just a cover for his vengeance? Like, is there an earnest desire to recreate his family? Not necessarily by impregnating Natalie or anything like that, but just sort of like in general. I think so. Stealing their son. Yes. Also, why not both, right? It's like you can hurt them by also getting the thing you want.

54:51Joanna Robinson:Yeah. And turning that against the Bodens might be the sweetest form of revenge. Again, the Bodens. Again. Zach, I presume, started the fire here? Well, I mean, Nevaeh could have done it too. Together, maybe? Yeah. Also, who stole the toe back? Could have been either one. This is, these are general sentences that were sent to me. Who stole the towback? All right. Secret tunnels in the wall. Yeah. The Bowdoin back rooms. Oh, Bowdoin back rooms. That's really good. Thank you. You're welcome. Go fuck yourself, Anna. I loved the red paint, like, spatter when she took the paint can and hit Nevaeh in the head and I, for a second, did think that was blood and then I was like, oh, it's way too much blood.

55:30Joanna Robinson:It's paint. It was a lot of blood. That, to me, was the trashiest, soap opera-iest moment. Oh, yeah. Of just like the paint splatter. The paint can smack over the head with the paint splatter. Like really wonderful stuff. Stay away from my son. What son? Dun, dun, dun. All right. So what else do you want to say about this episode of television? Oh, and then we get the bloody footprints going across the street. Well, first we get Tom going into the walls. Yeah. And then collapsing, fighting for his, absolutely fighting for his life with somebody back there. You know what I have to say? Yeah. You know, for the actress who plays Nevaeh, whose name is not in front of me right now.

56:07Joanna Robinson:Excellent screeching and screaming. Yes. Excellent, excellent job. Malia Piles. Incredible, just like hellcat energy from her in this sequence. I mean, comes through the wall and like tries to strangle him basically as the rest of the family just kind of watches. I did think that moment when she grabs Anna's arm from like the wall was really good. I mean, like when they were like, oh, it's just a possum. I was like, I don't know. I heard some screaming that didn't sound like possum to me. That was the moment of the episode for me. It's like you hear two people screaming bloody murder. Yeah. Repeated bludgeoning and fighting.

56:40Yeah. Oh, it's just a possum. It's like, oh, it was just a possum, silly.

56:45Joanna Robinson:Is that your too dumb to live moment? I think my too dumb to live moment is Anna going into the wall after Tom has literally come out of the wall being like, there's somebody back there. I thought Tom might die in this episode. Seems very likely. When he went into the wall and like fell down through the floors and stuff like that, I was like, if Nevaeh is in the wall and Nevaeh kills him, I would not be surprised. She's so eager. Her knife is ready. Yeah, the horror movie moment of her like grabbing out for Anna's arm I thought was really good. Really terrific. Yeah, and then just like pulling her, literally pulling her out of the wall I thought was fantastic.

57:16Although in that two seconds after, oh, it was just the possum and we see the possum. Yeah. I was like, can Nevaeh anamorph into a possum? Is that where this is going?

57:26Joanna Robinson:This is very House of the Dragon. Is Alice Rivers a goat? Is she a possum? Could she turn into a possum? Turns out no. Possum transmogrification is what you're saying. We can now confirm we have seen Nevaeh and the possum in the same place. Is Animorph another 1993 reference, would you say? I guess so. Maybe. It's a little later. Maybe that's more like 97, 98. Okay, great. I loved this. I thought this episode was great. I really feel like the show has hit its stride with me. in my heart and I had a great time watching this episode. It's wonderful. Again, I don't know if it's good, but it's wonderful.

58:02Joanna Robinson:I know that when I watch it, I get to come in and talk to you about it and hear from our listeners about it. So it's great. We're all in the muck together. It's really what makes so enjoyable and we're all just, I mean, this episode was the sweatiest yet. Oh, well, the AC is not working. That's what I'm saying. And nobody is inclined to fix it. Absolutely. If you were, just once again, on the drinking alcohol as a sweaty, banged teenager in Savannah, Georgia, I feel like a Natalie wants a mixer. She's not mixing it with anything. She's just straight chugging alcohol. That's a lot of straight vodka.

58:35Yeah. Even for an aggressive teen who doesn't really know what they're doing. Like, it's just a lot.

58:40Joanna Robinson:We're not doing like a Smirnoff Ice, whatever the kid's version of that these days is, or like mixing it into the sweet tea or anything like that. We're just chugging it from the bottle. That's the thing. You got the tea on hand. Yeah. There's probably like some cranberry juice in there somewhere. Like, make something happen. Yeah, tough, really tough. All right, did we do it? I think we did it. Okay. One last note, just for our lawyer friends who have been emailing in about Max Cady's sudden release from prison. Yeah. Earlier in this episode, when Tom is meeting with his attorney friend, they do give some flimsy explanation as to like, oh, political reasons.

59:12The governor was embarrassed by this other case and they like fast-tracked Max's way out of prison. Yada, yada, yada. They yada, yada'd a little bit. Corners were cut. But, you know, a kind of plausibility in the world of Cape Fear.

59:23Joanna Robinson:Next week's episode is called The Mongrel and has three credited writers. Okay. I just have some questions about that. Is a possum a mongrel? I bet some possums are mongrels, but not every mongrel is a possum. Wow. You know what I mean? Now I want to speak to the possums that are not mongrels. Did you grow up calling them possums or opossums? Nobody, Joe, no one says opossum. Yes, people, it's a regional thing. People say opossum, yeah. No one says opossum. Okay, I think we're going to be carried at gmail.com. It's a silent O. No, I grew up calling. I didn't even know that they were known as opossums.

59:59Joanna Robinson:But some places in the country, they call them opossums. I say this with great love and affection. I could see you calling them opossums because, look, you're a very bookish sort. I could see you reading the word opossum thousands of times. My sister thought the word misled was mizzles because she had only read it. It's just in your head. And in your head, I could have seen it as being opossum. No. Thanks so much for lovingly calling me dumb. I'm saying you're scholarly. No, on the contrary. I'm saying you're a learned sort. I believe I'm right about this regional opossum thing, but I would like to hear from our listeners.

1:00:32Joanna Robinson:I would too. Rather than Google it. And don't give us an AI answer. Give us your real regional answer. How sweet is your tea? No slops. Like what's the correlation between the sweetness of the tea and whether or not you say opossum versus possum? This is something I'm curious about. Do you remember that New York Times regional dialect quiz some years ago? I feel like there's an equivalent of like, how sweet is your tea? Yeah, absolutely. We can regionally make a very precise guess where you can. I kind of feel like Savannah, Georgia is like. That might be it. The hot center of it, you know? All right.

1:00:59Joanna Robinson:We'll be back in a second with the conspiracy board and the new cards we're adding to it. We'll see you in a sec. All right. We are back with some more cards to put on the board here at episode six of Cape Fear. Having a great time. We're going to start off strong with R.I.P. Jarto. R.I.P. little homie. Yeah. Yeah. We barely knew ye. It's charcoal briquette now. Let's keep it going along the same thematic lines. We wouldn't even know about the Jarto if not for the Bowdoin backrooms. The sacred liminal space inside the Bowdoin home. Who knows what lurks there beyond our own traumas? Do you think now backrooms is mandatory viewing to understanding this season of Cape Fear?

1:01:39I think it might be mandatory viewing to understanding the human experience.

1:01:42Joanna Robinson:Great. All right. We're not sure she exists. She might be a metaphor. Lila, question mark, and tarot bang. Maybe C, maybe Anna, maybe just some other lady. We have added C to the Juliette Lewis card on the board. Absolutely checks out to me. Another C, the AC. The broken AC, in fact. Maybe it's a coolant leak, maybe it's not. RIP the yoga drone. We're just like looking to get some more Red X on the board. So we're not 100 % certain this is the same drone. Could be drone 2.0. We love to kill a drone. We do love to kill a drone. Already dead though, Melissa and Adam. Although maybe resurrected as a restaurant concept with a tasteful refreshed menu.

1:02:17Joanna Robinson:Well, so that's why I made that card because the ampersand is a real restaurant name. I will say as ampersand restaurants go, I'm a little more Melissa and Adam oriented than like flower and water oriented. This is why I did this. My best friend and I have a game where when we're out in the world and you see a sign that is a proper noun, ampersand, proper noun, we take a photo and send it to each other. Yeah, it's one of the worst things that we as millennials ever did. Is it our fault? I think it's our fault. Oh, God. All right. Old man on phone. We don't know who it is. Is it his dad? Is it Ron Perlman?

1:02:49Joanna Robinson:Is it Robert De Niro? We don't know. But there's an old man on the phone, so he gets a card. We do know this man, Henry, because we would know that mustache anywhere. Tom's lawyer friend. What do we? I'm just questioning my own artistic skills. I'm not. Okay, great. This is beautiful. Thank you. The nostrils are really what does it for me. Shotgun. Check off shotgun. Yeah. You know, forget the nail gun. Forget the pepper spray. But we will remember all those things. But also, there's a shotgun on the loose. And Natalie knows how to. I mean, good job, Natalie. Oh, my God. Crack aim. I mean, anyone would know, too, if they listen to our Widow's Bay pods, how I feel about someone triumphantly cocking a shotgun.

1:03:21I mean, it's just one of the great things you can do. So shout out to Natalie.

1:03:24Joanna Robinson:We support Natalie, but Patricia is our queen. It's hard to top. It's very true. The aspect ratio shift. Yeah. Do not adjust your television sets. We are zooming in and out of focus. We are changing the resolution. We're doing a lot of things because we're on drugs. Absolutely. Pepper spray. It's there. We're not sure if it'll come back, but we just want to note that it is there. We have a new tradition. We're starting a new subcategory of the board. Obviously, peanut butter has been renamed. Yeah, money. It's just a better name. Absolutely. Subcard. Yeah. He's a fucking traitor. He is. You can't force a cat to do anything, but guess what?

1:03:57That cat doesn't love you.

1:03:58Joanna Robinson:If Romeo winds up going across the street to the Bowdoin's, are you ready to slap a traitor card on a dog? Yeah, but it would never happen. Okay. We are retiring microdosing, and we're moving it on to macrodosing. We're macrodosing LSD. How much of the vial do you think went into that, like, the pitcher of iced tea? I bet Zach has a heavy pour. Just dumped that thing. Yeah, absolutely. Immaculate Banks. This is the podcast for them. Yeah. Whether they're in a vision of your dead loved ones or just watching the Prestige TV. Dr. Anita's anger management course. Incomplete. Incomplete. Anna has an incomplete.

1:04:33But along the same new media lines, somehow podcast guy returns. I believe his name is Louis something. thing. Wow, you bothered to know his name. Lewis Powell, maybe, perhaps.

1:04:42Joanna Robinson:Guys, this is not how podcasters behave, I promise you. No. This is some shitty paparazzi stuff. Well, other than the many times you have harangued people on the street. Well, no, that's just you. All right. Honey, honey, honey, the bartender. She's here. She's in her underwear. She seems like she's having a great time. Oh, just the right of her life. You're hanging out with Max. El Padrino not having the right of his life, at least not anymore. Shiv to death in prison. You know, I mean, you throw the wrong guy to the Aryan Brotherhood, and I guess this is just what happens. I mean, tough. All right.

1:05:12Joanna Robinson:Last but not least, the bloody footprints that lead from the Bowdoin home to across the street to Vax's home. Yeah. I mean, the toes. Oh, yeah. There's four toes on this one. Because it's Zach. Are you worried about Zach? Why would I be worried? He's being inhabited by a ghost son. Is that his eye at the end of the episode? Great question. I mean, clearly a mirror shot of the one we get of Max earlier and his, like, maybe third eye-opening experience in prison, but now red. Feels like it's just the same shot, though. Okay, it's just still Max's eyes upon you. But now angry. Okay, honey, honey, honey.

1:05:45Joanna Robinson:It's time to end the podcast. We will be back with episode seven. We're pre-recording that one, so if you've emailed us, I'm so sorry those emails will not join us. Rob is taking some sensible time off, so we're banking some Cape Fear episodes, but we will see you for the badness soon. Thanks to Kai Grady. Thanks to Evan Rinaldo. Thanks to Jacob Cornett. Thanks to Tim and not new Savannah Coffee Roasters because no free ads. But also, it's kind of good. The coffee kettle rolls. All right. Bye.

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