‘Cape Fear’ Episode 7: Family Matters

20:24Happy birthday to Natalie. But I guess it is. I didn't put it together that way, but you're right. It is a sign of affection. I would say if you're going to do it, maybe don't just yell it out loud. Right. Maybe don't just tell everybody what the combination to the gun safe is, including your teenage daughter.

20:38Rob:Well, that was a tough thing that got an early payoff. So she's a cancer on the zodiac sign. You're a cancer. I am a cancer, yeah. Do you feel in affinity to Natalie? Honestly, I think we do have a lot in common, unfortunately. Where's your overlap with Natalie Bowden? We're both emotionally reactive people. It's just I can see some of her follies in me. All right. All right, Cancers Unite. I don't know. I thought it was kind of sweet that Natalie's birthday was the code to the gun save. What if it was like the day that Zach leaked the nudes? Oh. Sophia Gate Day? There are bad answers to what is the confidence.

21:14What if it's Lexi's birthday? You know, like there are things that cannot be on the board.

21:18Rob:He's like, Anna, go get the gun. It's Lexi's birthday. You know the one. You know. She's a Sagittarius. All right. Max brings peanut butter money back to the house as a sort of like lure. Many nay peanut butter. Right, exactly. That's a maiden name thing. You can't do it for name changes. I think you can. I don't think you can. Anyway, he uses peanut butter to get sort of Natalie to open the door. I mean, this is an excellent use of cat lore. Basically a skeleton key. Could open any door in the Bowdoin house. And then he does like a very, I mean, again, this is this is where I like really admire Max because he doesn't tell her to get in the car.

22:01Rob:No, he just drops the bait, drops a little trail of pig's ears or turkey or whatever, you know, and she she trots after him. She goes to get the gun. Yeah. She comes up to the car. She's like, I've shared my location with my friend. And if I were Max Katie, I'd be like, what friend? This is does she not have a single friend in the world? I don't think so. It's just Callie who sucks. And then like Nevaeh, who was a honeypot. So, no, I don't think she has a single friend. Maybe this is me inferring from the start of the show, but it felt like Natalie had a richer social life. Maybe that was just me kind of coloring in the space around Callie at that stage.

22:36Rob:Yeah, Callie and then, like, Zach's friend who she goes to, like, see with her open container at the beginning of the episode. She just didn't seem like the kind of outcast that Zach is, but apparently she just doesn't have a friend in the world. Yeah. Yeah, when she's like, I shared my location, he's like, sure you did, bud. Sure you did. But that's what it is. I mean, it's like she is clearly feeling isolated in a bunch of different ways, betrayed by her parents, like doesn't have a good sense of what the truth is about who she is, why she's asking that now. I do agree with Paul. Like we went all these years and you never brought this up is a little weird.

23:07Right. But here you are now. And I think what Max does, no drugs required, is like give her enough encouragement and confidence and mystery where I think the greatest manipulations in movies and TV usually come from. when the detective, the would-be detective, feels like they're picking up the scent, right? It's like, oh, I'm putting things together on my own. Where in reality, Max is just dropping stuff left and right for her to pick up.

23:33Rob:Yeah, absolutely. And later, of course, I mean, I don't want to skip past what's on the ox when you're on a road trip with Max Gaty. We can talk about that Blue Oyster Colton in a second. But like - It's a little cheeky. Really? Don't fear the Reaper for this man. I just felt like I really liked the vibe of what's playing in Max Cady's car. Oh, yeah. This, like, 70s dad rock stuff. That part fit. Yeah. But yeah, don't get in the car. Well, I said this last week, don't get in the car. This is so much worse than the first time. Don't follow Max Cady to a secondary state in the United States. Is that the...

24:09Rob:The escalation from, let me take you to get a coffee. Already, you probably shouldn't do it, but she did it, to, I don't even know where you're going, but I'm going to get in this car with a gun I don't know how to use in a drawstring bag. after everything we've just experienced together? Natalie. Simply not. And all it took was seeing some very obviously staged text messages and her being like, wow, you really changed my mind on this. I'm sorry she hurt you, but I have no more information for you, Natalie. Yeah, this is all-time stupid shit from Natalie. Very bad. Facts we learn in the car. Max Katie can't swim.

24:45That's what he says. Oh. I just interpret everything he says in the car to be a means to pull her closer. Right. It's like little ways for her to feel sorry for him. Little ways for him, for her to feel like he is trusting her to drive the car. Even his like mental episode. Do we think that actually happened?

25:03Rob:Oh, I kind of do. I believe that those things do happen to him, but it feels like the kind of thing he could stage to give her the chance to drive, which if he's bugging their house, he knows she wants to do. Right. Learner's permit is on our conspiracy board for a reason. Like this is a vulnerability of hers that she wants. But I really felt like he was actually going through something. And also the sound design was like giving us that sort of like high wine sound. That's true. When someone's having like a headache. But is that just the Natalie level panic of having to grab the wheel in that moment?

25:33I think his glitch prescription.

25:37Rob:Yes. Needs to go on the conspiracy. Glitch prescription is a card. There's really no doubt. I just think the I'm gonna have this very conveniently time inconveniently time for driving purposes but conveniently time for manipulation purposes head glitch and afterwards I'm gonna be like oh my head hurts so much your dad hit me in the head many times that was obviously like a world cup world cup-esque like flop you know but like I just think that I think that was a real glitch I I don't know you don't think Max Cady not being able to swim would be like an interesting thing to be on the show Like, especially a story that has, at least in the 90s, culminated with a houseboat on Rocky Shores sort of situation.

26:19So the solution with Max Cady, not unlike the solution in 28 years later, is just like go live on an island and he can't get to you.

26:26Rob:Ooh, with the causeway? Hope there's not a causeway. Or else you really have to mind the tides. But this is the Max Cady question. Is he the most Machiavellian planner that the world has ever seen? Or is he just great at improv? I think both. I think he like, we've talked about this before. It's like how much is planned and how much is just sort of like making the most of a given opportunity. You know what I mean? And like when Nevaeh gets caught, she's not planning to get caught. But like she's, you know, she's like taunting Anna, like bet you can't shoot me. She doesn't account for the pepper spray.

26:59Rob:But there are like moments when you have to pivot and figure things out. He obviously has plans within plans. He injected that peach before they even got in the car. He knew she was getting in the car. Yeah. Tough. Here's one area where he did make the most of it. When Natalie says, are you kidnapping me? And he hits her with the rare quadruple take as a bit. Give it to me. I simply can't. I don't go past double take. My neck doesn't work that way. You've never done a triple take. But when he's like, that's hilarious. That's hilarious. And you know what? He's right. She got in the fucking car.

27:35Rob:She forced her way into that car. Yeah. Masterclass in acting. It really is. From our guy, Max Cady. Not my guy. It's so much more kind of mask dropping from him at this stage in the season. Like anytime someone can't see him, Natalie gets in the car and he's above it. Complete facial change. Absolutely. When he walks away from her and he's like smirking and sneering because he knows he's hooked her. Yep. So we go back to the family home. And this is another moment where we get to appreciate what Javier Bardem is capable of. because Max Cady, who has been like in control of every situation he's been in, shows up to interrogate his abusive father.

28:11Rob:And his abusive father, who used his dog training skills to abuse his son, can make him sort of cower and cringe. And like, does Max get what he wants at the end of the day? Yes, from Hester. But his father puts him on the back foot. And it's just sort of like, it was really impressive to see Javier Bardem flip into this sort of cringe mode sort of thing. We saw it activate a little bit when he met with Crystal in the humidor earlier this season, right? Like a little bit of that, mixed it with some just casual sibling make out spitting stuff. But this is different. I mean - Your fave. Spit stuff.

28:48Not me. Yeah, I mean, Ron Perlman's just playing like an absolute piece of shit here in a really wonderful storytelling kind of way. The whole like, if you train a dog well, they'll always remember who their master is. kind of like that kind of psychosis. Yeah. Incredibly effective.

29:03Rob:A very like, we're not so different, you and I, when we have Ron Perlman showing up as Max Cady's father, Daddy Cady in this episode, and then Ted Levine showing back up as Anna's shitty father, right? Yes. So the two shitty father played by these great, you know, actors that we've known for so long who are capable of such menace, who have this inherent menace to them. I was like going back and watching some Ted Levine, like, Yeah. Sans the Lamb stuff, and it's just like, it's, incredible what he does in that movie. And so he's got these like beautiful eyes, as do like most of the people on this show.

29:37But he's just like, you know, he's doing this whole like,

29:41Rob:I'm reformed. I was certainly hoping you would give me a second chance. You know, like he's in his like tidy little polo with his like name tag for work, just like this whole reformed thing. And, you know, like. We're supposed to believe in in and reform for people and second chances, but there's just something about Ted Levine where I'm just sort of like, I wouldn't. Oh, yeah. Nor would I. But also, I think it's just as Anna straight in the crosshairs where, theoretically, her entire professional life is about giving people second chances. Oh, yeah. And here she is with her own dad being like, you're not having fucking dinner with my kids.

30:16Are you kidding me?

30:16Rob:It's her, like, the confrontation that she is encountering these last few weeks has been really tough for her. This summer, FanDuel is the best place to bet on goals. including equalizers uh-huh voles yep headers every goal is worth more on fan so let there be goals new customers get up to a thousand dollars and bet reset tokens when you bet five dollars daily 21 plus and present in select states often required refund issue does not withdraw but bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt minimum five dollar wager required for five consecutive days max refund two hundred dollars per day restrictions apply including token expiration see full turns at fanduel.com slash sportsbook gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head.

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31:53Rob:Did I ever tell you about the time I saw Ted Levine in a bookstore that I worked in? No. Yeah. One of the bookshops that I worked in, he came in and one of my coworkers walked up to me and they're like, Buffalo Bill is in. And I was like, where? And they were like, the gardening section. And I was like, incredible. And he bought some gardening books. So let's see it. There were worse sections for him to be in. Absolutely. The lotions. Meat preparation. Sewing. Yeah. I don't know. Bug maintenance and care of bugs. I don't know. I really liked this Max Katie Goes Home section. Do you want to talk about Creepy Luke?

32:28I would love to talk about Creepy Luke. I mean, first of all, casting call. Guy who looks like he might ask to kiss you within 60 seconds. And while we're saluting our Foley artist, I would also like to salute whatever boom mic operator sufficiently captured his mouth breathing. Close range mouth breathing as he really makes the moves on that.

32:49Rob:He likes the shy dogs. You know, consent. That made me Max style, like fold up into a little kernel. Like I did not like it. You know, consent is key. And he did ask. Wow. Can I kiss you? Yeah. Our consent king. Our consent king. Creepy Luke. Wow. Yeah. I think he contains multitudes. Consent king. Creepy Luke. He just feeds the dogs. He just feeds the dogs. He looks after them. He feels protective of them. You have any thoughts about this guy? Do we see him again? Can't be nothing. He's just there for like creepy, like color to send Natalie, like running towards the porch. Just an unsettling bit of drapery.

33:28Rob:Yeah. I think this is the question with overall. Is he like a Boo Radley type figure? Like we're like misunderstood in his time. Of all of the characters at the Katie, at Daddy Katie's house. Katie Compound. The Katie Compound. Thank you. I mean, I think we see Ron Perlman again. We've gotten one phone call and one appearance. Simply must. We're going to get one more Ron Perlman show. Hester? that might be the end of Hester. Can I just say though, between Daddy Katie, creepy Luke and Hester, Hester's the person I'm most interested in seeing again. You want to know her story. Oh my God, yeah. What's Hester's whole deal?

34:01Rob:Anna Debra. Like, oh my God. I love her. So your perspective, generally speaking, Daddy Katie, good dad. Luke, consent king. Hester, the woman who could have saved Max from a life of abuse, but chose not to. An icon. I just want to know what she's up to. And I go. All right. So we get the boat. It's called the Galilee. Do you remember? Did I ever talk to you about the name of the boat in the 90s? No. What was it? It's Moana. What? I'm not kidding. It's called Moana. I just want to know how far it goes.

34:40Rob:Yeah. Nick Nolte's been standing at the edge of the water as long as he can remember. I haven't even seen the animated Moana, but that song fucking goes. Are you kidding me? You should watch that movie. It's actually great. I am. Look, I'm just a sucker for the very specific Disney, like, I am at the threshold, about to embark on the journey. An I Want song. Yeah. You love Go the Distance from Hercules. Oh my God, do I love Go the Distance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've often dreamed of a far off place. Yeah. Let's go. And I Want song. That's like Santa Fe and Newsies. It's very true. It's an I Want song.

35:12Rob:Very much so. All right. So Creepy Luke, Crystal Katie, this boat is called the Galilee. Very biblical. How do you feel about seeing a houseboat in a Cape Fear story? Is this where everything's going to go down at the end of the day? Always welcome. I kind of think it might be a little bait and switch. We're going to zag. I think we're going to zag a little bit. This felt like maybe a one-time location, although it might come up and be relevant. Clearly, Ray was murdered here. So there's a lot happening here. Where's the body? It's in the trunk. Oh. I think. Yeah, we did get that sort of Edgar Wright sort of like smash cut to closing the trunk.

35:49Yeah, that wakes up Natalie. Yeah.

35:51Rob:You think he's in the trunk? I would assume. Or maybe he took a shovel or something out of the trunk, I guess. Yeah. Here's my question about the decomposition of a dead body. Something that maybe all of our friends who know so much about scopolamine may have more experience with. You think those brain surgeons are still thinking about emailing us about brain surgery? They certainly might. If you were taking a four to five hour road trip, as this seems to be, would that thing start to smell in the trunk? Yeah. In the summer southern heat? What's AC, though? In the trunk? Well, kind of. Does the trunk get AC?

36:23Well, not directly, but I think some drifts in there. I don't think in that model of car it does. It does seem like an older car. You're right.

36:28Rob:Yeah, I don't think so. So it's just bacon back there. Is there ice back there? Maybe that's what he was putting in the trunk. I don't think we're making it back to Savannah without some sort of suspicious odor coming through the trunk of the car. In that case, the body cannot be in the trunk. I don't know. Did he feed it to the gators? Oh, just like tossed it in the river? That seems sloppy for Max Cady, though. He didn't have time. Okay, so we do know he comes back, his shirt is off now. So maybe he did dig a hole, or maybe it was covered in blood. I don't know exactly what happened. He doesn't seem smeared enough with dirt to have dug a grave of some kind.

37:01He doesn't have the Zendaya and Euphoria, like, I've been digging this ditch and I'm now a walking dirt clod vibe.

37:07Rob:Not even that like sort of fetching cheekbone-esque stripe of dirt that people often get in these situations. That's what the actors request, frankly. Can you give me some contour? Yeah, where is the body? Think of maybe carrot at gmail.com. If it's just in the trunk, that's interesting. Yes. Then where's it going to land? Well, here's the other question that I had is who could possibly connect the dots of what happened here? Natalie has been passed out in the front seat. the murder weapon is one of the Bowdoin's guns that is in their gun safe that theoretically no one else has access to bad decisions very bad there's one person though who could have seen it and it's Crystal Katie who was warned by her dad to run away or hide or whatever yeah clearly it was close enough that the beer was still cold and still condensating as you said yeah I think she's around here somewhere so she's just like in the underbrush in the underbrush like maybe a compartment of the boat, I don't know exactly, but I feel like this show would not be able to resist the metatextual payoff of Juliette Lewis getting her revenge on Max Cady.

38:16Rob:I'm excited. I miss her. I'm excited for more Juliette Lewis. I was bummed that she was not at the boat. Did not appear in this episode. Yeah, I really wanted to see her. Well, other than when Ray shows up to the woman who owned the station wagon previously and poses as an insurance salesman or adjuster or whatever. You could be entitled. Clearly that works pretty well. Because Ray's competent at his job. He is competent. That said, I know she gets the hundred, so she's not asking a lot of questions at this point, but this guy's like, I'm an insurance salesman. And also, do you know this woman who I just said, I don't know who she is before, but I have a photo of her on my phone.

38:48Rob:Yeah, and she's like, let's see, mask, rain slicker hood up, a bit of hair. Sure, that's her. That's the Froot Loop I know. That's definitely her. I love that woman. I'm really bummed that Ray is dead. I would watch a Ray prequel where we get to see him like driving around the South and like breaking and entering for good. You know, what are we calling it? Oh, gosh. Nope. Rollins in order. What's the what's the pun here? There's something. There's something here. We just got a workshop. Ray of justice. Ray of justice is pretty good. It's pretty bad. Prestige TV slash think of a baby carrot. Sorry.

39:29Prestige TV at Spotify dot com. Or think of a baby carrot at Gmail.

39:32Rob:If you're listening, we're available to write the Ray Rollins prequel. This is free IP. Absolutely. Actually, but the prequel is about him getting out of prison, no? Well, it's both. There's like, because that can be involved in it. There's him being competent in his job, doing all the things that he does that skates the edge of right and wrong. But there's flashback to when he was in prison and what got him there. Yes. And perhaps he has like a guy he knew and they dug coal together. Just something to think about. I mean, full justified reboot with Jamie Hector. Why not? I'm in for that. When do you watch it?

40:06Plus, look, I'm always in for a backstory as the sum of all the influences that make a person. I do kind of like that we're getting that with Max Cady, where it's like we've seen who he was in prison and kind of like this religious aspect of his personality that has sort of taken over. We're seeing now with his dad, like the whole everything you know I knew first that his dad drops on him. I mean, incredible line.

40:26Rob:Really good. So, yeah, I like that we're seeing all of his tricks kind of turned against him and seeing their origin story, too. It's pronounced again him. Again. You know, I deeply apologize. Okay, before... I missed this part. When he gives her the peach to eat, and something we've celebrated is that there isn't, like, creepy sexual vibes between Max and Natalie. It's like, but they couldn't help themselves. When he's like, is that good? And she's like, Georgia peach. I'm like, what was the tagine you put on that particular line? Like, what the fuck was that? First of all, I don't like the spice you put on that in particular.

41:10Rob:Tagine. Like, anyway, Georgia Peach, what the fuck are we talking about, Natalie? That was so weird and flirty. This might be your dad. Inside of the episode where she's just like, are you my dad? You know, like, very curious to me. All of the lines are getting crossed here. as it seems they do in the Katie household. What did you make of the baptism scene? It did make me think about last week's episode and the ending a little bit different. You asked me about that shot we got at the end of episode six, Possum, of the red eye, right? Oh, right, right, right. And you asked me, like, what do you think this is?

41:43What is it? Now I think it's definitely Zach, where it feels like that is Zach's eye kind of turning red, right? Like coming over to the Max Katie side. And this is sort of the same thing, like a dunk and a baptism. and now Natalie is, her situation is more complicated.

41:56Rob:Well, she's like, I feel the same. And he's like, because you are who you've always been. My daughter. My biological daughter. Here's question number one. Do we think that's actually true? I think it being revealed, revealed in episode seven makes me think maybe it's not true. Right? I don't even know what Max knows too. Like he could believe it to be true. He could also be giving her the hair just as like a, go chase this down and see how it makes things messy. Do you know how to like get a DNA testing? Do you know how to like - Never done it. Who do you mail the beard hair to? Apparently not 23andMe.

42:34That doesn't seem like the answer. I don't know.

42:39Rob:I kind of think it's not. Though, yeah, to your point, like if he wasn't sure it was him, would he give her the beard hair? I think he might do it anyway. But yeah, I mean, to answer your question, Joe, you know I'm not even like putting my fingerprint on my phone. I do know that about you. The idea of I'm sending my and someone else's DNA into a corporation, simply not happening. One more thing I want to circle back to this Ted Levine. He's also wearing a green polo. Green polo's on both the bad dads in this episode. He's going for the Gilmore Girls deal. I need dinner with you once a month. I didn't realize that.

43:12Who proposes it in Gilmore Girls?

43:14Rob:Oh, Emily Gilmore. It's the whole start of the Gilmore Girls is that Lorelai Gilmore is estranged from her parents. but she needs money to send Rory to a good school so she asks her very rich parents for monies and they're like in exchange you have to come and have family dinner with us every Sunday but only her not Rory no Rory has to come too Rory has to come too they want to know their granddaughter mandating a granddaughter's appearance that's a big ask and so the friction between the generation of Gilmores is really the meat and potatoes of what Gilmore Girls is but I feel like Anna's shitty dad has been watching Gilmore Girls he's like you know what I'll do I'll do a full Emily Gilmore I'll demand a regular dinner in exchange.

43:54Rob:I think there's a lot we can learn in terms of plotting and scheming from the Gilmore Girls. Absolutely. Emily Gilmore is like Hester, an icon. Do you think this is going to go well with Anna's dad planting these drugs across the street? No. This is such a bad plan. This is a garbage plan. Wait for Ray to get back. He won't be coming back. But if you were like waiting for someone to break and enter and plant something, wouldn't you ask for Ray, the guy you know who does this for you and is trustworthy? Oh, you mean as opposed to the untraceable alternative of having your own biological father do it?

44:26Rob:Speaking of DNA reports. No one could possibly connect this to us. I think, look, I think it's a good instinct to stop Tom from just running over there and planting himself. That's a bad idea. I actually think Tom would have done a better job than what I assume is going to happen next. Yeah, but he's going to be on his own security cameras walking out with drugs in hand and probably on Max Cady's security cameras planting the drugs. But they have the Wi-Fi jammer. It's probably evidence now. But now that they know that the Wi-Fi jammer exists, I would go out and get my own Wi-Fi jammer. Jam the jammer.

44:56Can you jam a jammer? I would think so. I feel like if you could do that, then in the Matrix, the Sentinels would have EMPed the MP. You know what I'm saying? Like you can't jam the jammer.

45:05Rob:There's still time for another Matrix sequel in which that happens. I'm available. I'm available for the writer's room for that. Apple and Wachowskis were available. What did you feel about the Wi-Fi jammer being covered in like tasteful teen stickers? honestly great I loved it I couldn't make out what they were she's just a girl she is just a girl oh did you freeze frame Mahoney Zach's bedroom we got like more shots of posters and I mean what an incredible bedroom Zach has oh my god the exposed brick he's got a whole like settee over in the corner yes like what are we what are we complaining about Zach I would kill for that bedroom right now I would kill for that bedroom I did not honestly we had seen a lot of his bedroom already what I did freeze frame was when Natalie returns from Paul's house and gives Anna an ominous call about like her parentage and trying to press Anna for the truth.

45:55Rob:Oh, she's like another flask of booze deep into her afternoon drinking. She's in her cups. Natalie, that's not water. That's not water. She has like a bunch of stuff splayed out over the table. Oh, yeah. Family photos. Family photos mostly. So photos of like young, I would say like enchanted era Amy Adams among that myth. Some even earlier, I think. You think so? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then obviously some that they staged for the purposes of the show. Is there a photo of you drinking in a bar? We're going to need that. Let's just pull that up for the archival. You in your 20s drinking in a bar.

46:25Rob:Find us that photo. Let's find it. But two things that I think if this season ends up as Anna fears and dreads with her kids trying to, like someone trying to take her kids away from her in a legal sense because she is abusing substances because she has this history of alcoholism, whatever. Two pieces of evidence on this table I think are really going to work against her. One, a ticket stub to a Duke football game, which I think is abusive parenting, would not recommend it. Two, a ticket stub to an Alabama Shakes concert. That will not help your case in court. Tell me about, I saw that and I was like, I feel like Rob's gonna have an opinion on this.

47:02Rob:You're anti-Alabama Shakes. I just, I'm a little baffled at who brought who to that. I think Tom brought Anna to the Alabama Shakes concert. Oh, I thought this, I thought this might be Natalie's stuff. We don't know that because it's like family photos. Okay, actually it does check out that Tom and Anna would go. Yeah, Tom and Anna definitely would go. I was just worried that they had taken the kids. No, I don't think so. They better not have. What's like an absolute deal breaker concert ticket stub if you find it among people's possessions? That's a great question. The problem is like, look, there are ethical answers to this, but I'm going to be honest, people are going to those shows.

47:37I get a lot of like Kanye Instagram stories in my life being shared with me. So clearly you can't cut everyone out for the people that they enjoy listening to.

47:47Rob:You're like Chris Brown fans. I'm a fan of you. But on did not say that. That's you into a microphone. Clip it. Ship it. Put on the social feed. Yeah. What taste would be so offensive that it would be an actual deal? Is it like Jimmy Buffett? Are you like anti Margarita? I'm I'm pro Margaritaville personally. How are you pro Margaritaville, but anti Randy Newman? Oh, that's like that's why are you bringing my off mic Randy Newman? takes onto the microphone. I don't think I've mentioned this on the mic before. Because I find them offensive. Randy Newman is horrible. Jimmy Buffett is a king. I have nothing against Jimmy Buffett, but they're of a piece, are they not?

48:23Rob:Perhaps if Randy Newman had a chain of restaurants based off of his, you know, most popular hit, I would be supportive of it. So your problem is that he's not capitalistic enough. Yeah. I love capitalistic. You do love a small to medium-sized business owner. I'm just like, I'm looking for my lost shaker of salt. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. What else we got to say about this episode? That's a great question. Is this good television, Rob? How are you feeling? I often wonder. Yeah. Is this good podcasting? That I'm certain it's not. The show is just objectively insane, but the things that work really, really work, and the rest of it is stupid or confusing or just enjoyable enough to keep me tethered along at every single step.

49:05Rob:What performance did you enjoy most in this episode? Bardem. Yeah, is the answer ever anything other than Bardem? I think it can waver into other things. Like whenever Juliette Lewis is coming on screen, she has such a weird, nervy energy that's super fun. She's so good. I think you're right to isolate Jamie Hector and how much we're going to miss him from a performance aspect in this episode. Not just the character, but he has like, and it's such a weird thing coming from where he started on The Wire, where it was, yes, a calm character and a controlling character, but of such a different energy.

49:38Totally different menace from like the reassurance he has eased into later in his career. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will definitely miss him. Other than that, I would say the only other person who can steal a scene from me off and on is Lily Colias, who plays Natalie.

49:52Rob:I agree. I think she's been really, really great. And their road trip sequence, she's feeling herself, she's feeling liberated. And honestly, very true to life of the first road trip you get to drive for yourself is such a formative experience. Yeah. And him dangling that carrot in a way that he knows Natalie won't be able to resist. I just think she plays the full range of skepticism and like wanting to see the good in Max in a way that is really compelling. Yeah, I think she's fantastic, but it's like, it's Bardem's show. And I think without him here, there's no point in doing it, to be honest with you.

50:26Rob:Like I can't think of another performer I would want to see in this role. And the show doesn't work if you don't have like a sort of elemental force playing Max Cady. To be fair, the same is true of all the movies. Like that is a role you have to nail in a very specific magnetic way. Yeah. And they did that. Regardless of what you may think of the rest of the show or whether it works for you or not or whether there's too many toe jars involved. Like, I think they got the casting right on Max. Just absolutely nailed it. Yeah. One quick thing. Sure. Because they threw it out there and I didn't know what to make of it is after they leave the hospital to talk to the doctor about Zach's involuntary psych hold and the scopolamine and all that.

51:05Rob:And the zombification. Yes. Of Zach Bowden. brainwashed. Not clinically, but technically. Tom tells Anna this dream he had. Yeah. Yeah. Where they're on the roof of the parking garage and the sky is very blue and maybe they're in the volume. It looked a little weird. It looked very odd. Yeah. But you got a weird drone shot too, so I think it was on location. I think it just was captured strangely. Yeah. Maybe purposely. Maybe it's supposed to be a little uncanny. Maybe color graded that way. Yeah, yeah. So the dream he reveals is that in his dream, he's 14 years old. Right. His dad tells him his brother's gonna die over Thanksgiving break in a car crash.

51:40His mom agrees. He's like panicking that they're not doing anything about it. He looks to his brother and his brother he cuts off is my son? Right.

51:48Rob:So there's three options here. Because he almost like I watched that multiple times because I wasn't certain. And Anna seemed to know like what his answer would be or she at least was in classic Anna fashion deeply curious about what the where he cut himself off. Yeah. Was my son. Was myself. Would you say myself? I think you would say it was me. But he says my. It was my. Oh, it was my. So I think it wouldn't be. Not my myself. I think it wouldn't be myself. Okay. So we're taking that off the board. So either my son or my father. He started to say like F. I think his father, he almost says. But his father.

52:27I know. Yeah.

52:28Rob:But it's dream logic. It is dream logic. I was very baffled by that cutoff because I did not feel like it was clear what he was going to say. Nor did I. And I'm like, it'll be a weird thing to come back and clarify this. It can only be. But like, why would he say my? Why wouldn't he just say it was Zach or our son? That would make sense. You know? And why wouldn't he just say it was Zach? Because I'm worried about Zach's mental health the way that I worried about my brother's mental health. Don't worry about it. He didn't hang himself. He died in a car accident. It's not the same. But like, when's that information coming out?

53:00Rob:I don't know. Yeah, I thought that was a really weird scene. Very odd. Anytime a show makes a point to explain a dream, I'm like, okay, you're telling us something, but I have no idea what this was about. Yeah, very interesting. I would say the only other thing of note from this sequence is this is also when Natalie calls Anna asking about who her real father is. And as soon as Natalie asks it, Anna gives the quick, like, look to see if Tom is already in the car before I start answering this question. Do you know how insulting that is to ask your mother? She took a DNA test. Turns out it's quite insulting.

53:29Rob:Where are you on the question of is Max Cady Natalie's father? I'm with you that narratively this early in the season feels too early to introduce it if it's true. Right. There is one twist yet to come. And maybe the twist is just that it's Tom. That it is actually Tom and not Paul as they suspected initially. How nice. Is that nice? I don't want it to be Paul for sure. And I don't want it to be Mac. So of those options. Yeah. Tom is nicest. He is nicest, but that also makes it extra messy because that would mean that the whole trial was corrupted from the beginning. Buddy, it's already quite legally messy.

54:02Rob:We don't even know what they did yet. You don't really know how they legally colluded to put Max Cady away. But what else could it be other than they were? That's what Hester was saying, right? Like, I know what you did because you were ashamed of wanting him, right? That's what she said. And Hester is nothing else if not a truth teller. So, you know, something to think about. Do you want to go to the board? I would love to. All right. As per usual, we have come up with some cards we want to add to our extremely legible, completely normal looking conspiracy board that we've put together for Cape Fear.

54:33I've genuinely never been more proud of any piece of work I've ever been a part of. So thank you for, I mean, really, you're the driving force of this project, Joe.

54:40Rob:Do you want to, we updated a few cards that are already up here. Yes. Juliette Lewis' card now has a character name, Crystal Katie. Of course. What else did we update this? Like, Ray, obviously, rest in peace. Oh, rest in peace, Ray. Ray got the Red X treatment. The gun safe. 0702. 702, that's the, do you think it's just 0702 or her, or the year as well? Oh, it was just 0702. I saw her enter it. Oh, you saw her do it? Yeah. Okay, 0702, that's the combination of the gun safe. So now we can all access the gun safe. Anytime you want. There were several handguns in there. Wow. All right, anything else?

55:09I think those were the only ones we updated this week.

55:11Rob:Let's talk about things we're going to add. Well, we took a few down that we're going to replace with something else. So we're starting with scopolamine, a.k.a. devil's breath, the very specific mind control drug that is driving a lot of the machinations on this show. Makes me very uncomfortable that it exists, that people know so much about it, but not as uncomfortable as Daddy Katie himself. Wow. Just a real gem of a man, Ron Perlman. And you know what makes me believe in love? The icon Hester and Daddy Katie. They're still in love, and you love to see it. They are in love. I wish I could say this has anything to do with love, but it doesn't.

55:48The Bowdoin handgun was in the safe, taken out of the safe by Natalie, used to murder Ray in cold blood. and presumably put right back in the safe.

55:57Rob:Right back in the safe. Gunpowder residue. I don't know how you... Well, that would be on Max's hands, I would think. But the ballistics would match that exact gun. But like, I don't understand how ballistics... Like, you know the exact gun, but do you know like the exact gun? But you just know the make and model of the gun. I think you would know the make and model. Okay, but like, does that look like... And he's got like three of them in there. But no one knows that it's missing one bullet. Oh, one bullet. Right? Maybe one bullet to me. Actually, no, he shot him like three times. Oh, he did.

56:22Three bullets.

56:23Rob:Let go, let go. So we've got the handgun. We put the shotgun up last week. Yes. Can't remember where it is. And then the gun safe is up there. So we just got guns aplenty. Guns a-blazin'. It's that kind of show. Okay, great. Oh, there's the shotgun. Okay. Bluff's Point. Location-wise, this is where the baptism happens. This is where the giant cross is on Bluff's Point. Do we return to Bluff's Point, do you think? I think we have to. I hope we do because I would love more metaphorical baptism in addition to the very literal baptisms that occur on this show. but we're baptizing ourselves literally every week, frankly, around here.

56:56Rob:Speaking of stuff with water, Max Katie can't swim or can he, but maybe he can't swim. It's a very like beefy arm, but like he's got the guns. So it's like representing. And he's flexing them yet again. Yeah, he really is. Can Max Katie swim? We don't know. But for right now, I'm going to take him as word. Yeah. Doja peach. It's stone fruit season, baby. We both bought peaches this week. Get familiar. What's your favorite? Oh, you like to bake with peaches. I mean, I just love a peach by itself. No drugs added. Peach and a salad. Like a savory salad, but like some peaches in there? Peach and goat cheese.

57:31Oh. Elite.

57:32Rob:Buddy. Character actor, Patrick Fishler. That's Dr. Patrick Fishler to you. I will change it. Dr. Patrick Fisher, MD. Well, while we're introducing new characters, your consent king, Creepy Luke. I can't believe you wanted to do that card. He doesn't get a full-size card, Paul. He just gets a little one because that's what he deserves. He's sad. He's down bad. I don't want to spend any more time with Paul than we have to. We have another addition card in the vein of we added traitor to peanut butter. Now many last week. To add to Crystal Katie, Juliette Lewis, Fruit Loop. Should we put a traitor card on Zach?

58:12We might need to.

58:13Rob:Just like walked his ass across the street and said, this is my dad now. It wasn't even very hard. Little scopolamine goes a long way. Glitch description. You know what I was thinking of? The Buffy Vampire Slayer episode Helpless. Because that vampire in that episode is like, my pills, my pills. He needs the pills. And it comes back. So will Max be like, my pills, my pills? And Anna's like, these, the whole thing. So you think the final boss is Max in a dungeon. And meanwhile, no one - With a very long spoon. No one has any guns nor any magic to protect them. It's tough. Honestly, a horrifying episode of Buffy.

58:51The aggro Tom footage. We didn't really talk about this much during the episode, but there are now two different pieces of video evidence that Tom has just beaten the shit out of people.

59:00Rob:And he's like, I don't lift these weights for nothing. No, this is not cosmetic. These are functional muscles. Functional muscles. And I think they will be used against him at some point. Again? Last but not least, the Galilee, the boat. No cell service at the Galilee. We did not point that out, but that is very important. Ray's phone call came through garbled. so they didn't get all the information. But if someone else goes out to the Galilee, they're also not going to have cell service. So I think that's just something important to establish. Absolutely. It is not least. It's also not exactly last because, I mean, your beautiful artwork has featured all over the board, including the Galilee itself.

59:36But we have our first photo card to put on the board, if you can even call it a card. It is a giant grainy photograph of a possum who did not appear this week, but I am always wondering about its whereabouts. Where is the possum? Will someone account for it?

59:48Rob:yeah grainy footage of the possum thanks to our producer Kai Grady just tremendous stuff really great work I think when all is said and done when we put Cape Fear to bed yeah and we decided what we really think of it the thing that will stick with me the most are the possums you met along the way it's Tom either getting thrown through the drywall or bursting through the drywall and then Anna being like it was just a possum just a little possum just a possum panning for the devil alright that has been Cape Fear episode 7 Devereaux Devereaux We'll be back with episode eight. Once again, send us your emails.

1:00:23Rob:Even if we don't get to them, we will eventually catch back up and get to address all of your emails. Thanks to Kai Grady. Thanks to Jacob Cornett. Thanks to Dev Rinaldo. Thanks to this batshit show. Yeah. Having a great summer. Thanks to Polluted Rivers. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks to Skopalamine, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No thanks to you, Max Katie, for killing Ray Rollins. We don't like it. Not a single bit. Where's the possum? Where's the body? These are the questions we're asking. Stay tuned next week. Bye.

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