‘Cape Fear’ Episode 8: Going Under

19:26Rob:Yeah. So I can see how it all fits. But a cooler is famously like a flotational device. So you have to really weigh that thing down to get it all the way to the bottom of a pool. Well, how about a whole body inside of it? I don't even think that's enough. Do you wish we got the outtakes of Max just like waiting into the pool at night? I kind of do. And it's just like bobbing back up to the surface. I mean, he's a full time schemer. And I would love to see like him all the times he has injected peaches waiting for Natalie to get into his car. It's like, God damn it. It's another. Yeah. Fruit is not cheap right now.

19:59You know.

20:01Rob:To zoom ahead. It's so true. And it's stone fruit season. So we are very mindful of this. to zoom ahead to the shooting incident that happens at the end of this episode. Yeah. I'm not a doctor, clearly, if anyone spent time with us covering the pit. Do you feel like where Max Katie was like, right here, right here, right here is like a specific part of the abdomen where there are no organs? Like, shoot me right here. He did seem aware. Yeah. I mean, he pointed it, and then the nurse was like, thank God you got shot at exactly this spot because it dodged all your organs. at minimum he's so dumb that he's like i mean obviously he's goading her into shooting him and he's like do it right here if it were me i would do it anywhere else than the place that this guy because i was i was trying to give natalie some points in this episode yeah right when she's on the phone with him and he's like he's like i don't know your parents would do anything to get me back and she's like i don't believe you and i'll say yes thank you finally like thank you um and then And, you know, she hears what Anna has to say about her experience with Max.

21:06Rob:And she goes over there with the gun. And, like, none of his spells, you know, his charm spells are working on her. But then, like, he gets her to shoot him. And I'm just like, Natalie, come the fuck on. She's a scared teenager. I'm not trying to give her points. I'm just saying of all the people doing ridiculous things on this show, the scared teenager to me is the most believable. This whole situation, though, did result in, to me, what might be in the running for one of the funniest lines of the season. which is when after the shooting, when Natalie is getting arrested, and Anna's like, what happened, baby?

21:36What happened?

21:37Rob:I missed. I really wish this episode was just called I Missed. Incredible. So good. I almost wish that was the button. I wish it had been I Missed. Cut to credits. Yeah, let's get out of there. I don't need anything else. 10 of 10. I really agree. So good. Let's go back to earlier in this episode, why go in chronological order? Natalie visiting Nevaeh in prison. They have this conversation. This is a very confusing conversation to me because like at the end, Natalie is definitely provoking Nevaeh and then Nevaeh sort of loses her shit on Natalie. Yeah. And then Natalie looks like wounded. And I was like, did you not just goad her into that response?

22:13Rob:I'm so confused. But Nevaeh is jealous that Max took Natalie to Cape Fear River. Also. And the card earlier this season that was like, I will take you here someday was to her, right? Correct. To Nevaeh. I mean, it was found at the maggot tomb. So I can only assume that it was for her. Natalie and Nevaeh incest. Here's Nevaeh's read on this. I didn't get you pregnant, did I? I think that's got to go on the board. I joined her to the incest card. I didn't get you pregnant. I didn't get you pregnant, did I? Also, am I crazy or does prison really suit Nevaeh? She is glowing. I agree. The bangs are looking fresh.

22:52There's something about it.

22:53Rob:Maybe it's because she's not being actively dosed by a psychotropic drug in prison. you know I don't know what it is there's just something about the lighting or like whatever makeup she's able to procure in there she just looks less unhinged she looks alive yeah she looks proper hinge well not entirely until the hinges come off yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah do you think he cares about you you're just a baby rat for him to play with before he kills it I really wish she Natalie had gotten like if she's gonna provoke Nevaeh I wish she had gotten like some actual useful information one thing yeah one little item of like oh she said this yeah this will help us understand what his plan is.

23:28Rob:But no, it's just, well, maybe it's just sort of more like fuel on the fire for eventual Shiv Fest 2026. Yes. That is their meeting in prison, so. And I do think it's fuel on the fire in terms of coming forward to her parents about the gun. Like, coming clean about the whole situation, right? So many characters in the show, Anna's guilty of this, Tom is guilty of this, like, they'll go barking up certain trees and they'll be rebuffed and then they come and come back and do the thing they should have done in the first place. Oh, now's the time. Yes. To share information. Oh, the cops are here? Let me tell you what's going on.

23:56Rob:Right now is the moment. It's always the moment. The scene with Noah and Anna, when they're talking about Ray, and then Anna, like you brought up the cloud the other day. Yeah. Anna remembers the cloud. Thank goodness. And she's like, let's find it. And not only that, later Anna geolocates the Galilee based on the iPhone data. Apple must be loving this commercial. The real hero is the cloud. That's the real afterlife if you think about it. Oh, yeah. Your recent photos album. Ray lives on in the cloud. It transcends all of us. Do you think they thought about calling it iHeaven, but they said iCloud instead?

24:27I really hope they did. Okay, great.

24:29Rob:Anything else you want to say about this Noah scene? Do you feel like Noah was properly contrite for her involvement in all of this? No. Yeah. No, I do not. No, I also do not. Many characters have fucked up, but boy, did she fuck up. Yeah, absolutely. We get the Detective Grayson, Tom and Anna going to see Detective Grayson, Ollie reporting on Tom. We get the footage of Tom beating up Ollie in the bar, et cetera, et cetera. Anything you want to say about this? Before this Detective Grayson interaction, can we rewind a little bit to the initial, the body has been found in the pool, the police show up to the house.

25:01Sure. First of all, the Bodins did get that second security camera and it did jack shit. They got alternate footage. They got fleeced. Serious. The off charge on that thing, unbelievable. So first of all, it did zero good.

25:15Rob:Yeah. Then I would say this is the police doing their jobs. when Detective Grayson is like, do you have any guns in the house? In the house where we found the murder victim in the backyard of the pool. And Anna gets real snippy about the whole situation. And from her perspective, I get it. The police have been so incurious about anything. And now they're finally asking questions. They found the body in your backyard. They're going to ask if possibly you have the murder weapon. That feels like a reasonable thing to do. I guess, but like walk me, you know, to Tom's outrage point later, Walk me through the thought process of I'm going to kill someone, chop him up, put him in a cooler, put that cooler in my pool so that someone can find it and then report it to the cops.

25:59Rob:I don't think it would happen. I did the murder. I don't think it would happen, but maybe that would be the perfect cover is hiding it where they least expect. OK. I just think, look, police work is all about, as they say repeatedly, ruling things out. Uh-huh. This is where you start. Detective Grace is just asking questions. He's just doing his job. Just asking questions. He's doing his job very poorly, but he is doing it. OK. Anything else you want to say about Tom and Anna and Detective Grayson at the police station? I just think Tom is really embarrassing himself with the whole gun situation and the attempt to hide it.

26:29Rob? Not owned the gun that could be used as a murder weapon in the first place. But it is Georgia.

26:35Rob:Given the fact that you and I probably would not have guns in our house in the first place. Probably not. Okay. But if we did. Yep. And if, you know, if you had guns and if your teenage daughter were to use the gun. You don't know that she did that, though. You know, somebody did it. If you find the used murder weapon and the cops are already curious about why this body's in your pool. Yep. What are you doing? Rob, what's your next move? Not sticking my finger on the barrel of the gun. Okay. That's that's step one. Okay. And if I were a prosecutor of some renowned. who would understand that there's going to be a record of me buying this exact gun, I probably would do better than like Heineggen in the hamper and then trying to subtly discard it in a house that is wired for constant surveillance.

27:24Like that security company is turning over that tape instantly.

27:28Rob:Glitchy surveillance. But no, they installed a new system. They're upgraded now and they got up charge. I'm just saying there's crystal clear high definition footage of Tom going in his gun safe, getting the gun and trying and clumsily disposing it. Like, that's just, that's on tape somewhere. Tough, tough. Speaking of stuff that's on tape. Okay, so we get multiple scenes with Anna's shitty dad who reveals his true colors. Both her dad, well, I guess Anna fell off the wagon, was shoved off the wagon when she had LSD, was dosed with LSD. It's true. Not outside her control. But in this episode, both she and her dad are just like hard-earned sobriety out the window.

28:11Rob:What's your read on this? Like, do you believe that he, her dad ever had those like genuine intentions of like wanting to make good with the family or was it always this bid for money from them? I actually kind of thought it was trying to get closer to the family. Maybe that's naive of me. Did you think it was... He just wanted to watch a Pixar movie with his grandkids. He just wants to watch Cars 2. Yeah. You know? Yeah. He probably is a Cars 2 guy. Probably. Wait, it's Monsters Inc. maybe? Are we the Monsters? Monsters University. He is a big Monsters University head. Look, he's a simple man.

28:43Okay. He wants two things. He wants to watch Cars 3 slash Monsters University with his grandkids. Yeah. And he also wants$100 ,000.

28:51Rob:I too want those things. It could be either one. And today he decides to switch the lever to the other track. And then he shows up on the news with Max. And, you know, there are many ways in which Max has been exploiting the media. You clocked it sort of from the beginning, this idea of like the celebrity of murder or something like that. But the way in which Max is using, you know, media perception, all of this against the Bowdens. Will there be a time that the Bowdens figure out how to weaponize it back in his direction? I should hope so. But they're fumble bumbling their way through everything.

29:22Rob:So I don't know. They're not very good at it. No, they're really bad at it. And he's great at it. He's so good at it. Well, here's a question about Anna's dad, Brandon Devereaux.

29:35did he get money from Max? was he threatened by Max? because I would assume money well but part of the other side of getting your leg ripped up by Romeo is his DNA is all over the crime scene yes right? like all over Max's house and he could threaten to turn Brandon over to the police if he does not help him

29:52Rob:I think it's both right? it's like we've got a significant amount of your flesh in Romeo's job there's a whole chunk over there yeah absolutely but also like they were so chummy chummy buddy buddy that it feels like there was also some money past hands there actually what if it was many no it's Anna's assumption this was Romeo's doing we told you he had a dog you're trying to blame a cat for a dog crime I'm not trying to blame a thing I'm just saying there's a lot of there's a lot of claw happening in that in that wound that's some real Rob Mahoney behavior

30:27this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome you think you know a browser But Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+.

30:52Rob:And we're live on match day as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it! Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi too! What a finish. There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsi. Got a Sam's Cafe pizza order up. You know the best part about this spicy Italian sausage? I voted for this topping. Yeah, just another perk of being a member. Come join us. Sam's Club. All right. Tom looks at the photos that Ray took. Yeah. sees the photo of Anna and Max kissing. And we get this like very strange sort of like telenovela-esque, like he's looking at the phone and we see the photo that he's looking at.

31:40Rob:I already knew which photo he was looking at, but the show wanted to make sure I understood what he was looking at. Well, not only that, we get the very dramatic zoom in to make sure. I felt a little attacked. Like freeze frame Bowden is here on the case. I might be out of a job. Oh no. What am I to do if I can't be the only person zooming in on random shit in the background of photos and TV shows? I can't believe you just spent like 15 minutes besmirching Tom as the dumbest guy alive. And then you're like, also, he's on my beat. I'm not going to lie. Anyone could do my job. It's really not that complicated.

32:12Rob:All right. So he's really stuck on this. So, I mean, earlier we had had this like we had had them holding hands. We'd had sort of this like lovey dovey like fond memory moment of them. Nothing rekindles a relationship like cleaning up a crime scene, planting evidence. I think Dear Abby said that yeah she did remind me what you were saying before about like nobody remembers from one episode to another on this show it's real sort of glee behavior for and by the way I read an article the other day because I was looking up because Anna was talking about meeting Javier Bardem and he was just like a handsome restaurateur and I was like 2009 Javier Bardem let's go look at him that's what she was dealing with absolutely Vicky Cristina Barcelona Javier Bardem she is not the only one the Javier Bardem that pulled Penelope Cruz that's what she was dealing with canonically she was grappling with at the time but I found an article from him that he gave an interview that he gave recently that said in 2009 he really tried to get Ryan Murphy he wanted Ryan Murphy to put him on Glee he wanted to be on Glee but like he couldn't sing so he wasn't on Glee anyway Glee storytelling is thank god that sliding door slammed shut Glee storytelling is if we need something to happen it has to happen in that exact same episode So at the beginning of the episode, we need to establish that Anna and Tom actually care about each other.

33:29Rob:Yes. So that by the end, actually, the middle of the episode when Tom's like, you did this to me. Wow. We are just sort of like, you know what I mean? We can be like reminded of what was lost. You're absolutely right. But I'm just sort of like this. You had a lot of time for them to have this scene or these hand-holding moments or whatever. And they're just sort of like hastily cramming into this episode so that they could be wrenched apart a few scenes later, I guess. And they do the same thing with her sobriety, too. There's the whole scene about the apple juice, which is actually like kind of sweet.

33:58Rob:Yeah, it is. But it serves there to set up the fact that when she falls off later, you understand the stakes and the impact and all that. It's like, here's what you missed on Glee. Nothing because we're going to establish it again in this very episode, just in case you forgot it. There just haven't been that many episodes of Cape Fear. And there really are. There's a lot going on in terms of plots and twists. Everyone has like one thing about them. Anna's is sobriety. So, you know. What is Zach's? eating toast fish everyone has a talent fish and eating toast alright Tom and Anna in prison what did you think of this scene I kind of get why it's over or at least it seems to be over for now they certainly don't seem to trust each other the bottom has completely fallen out on their relationship the thing I really liked about this episode I will say is in the Anna and Natalie scene we get a better explanation for why Anna has kept it a secret, not only her whole life, but in this whole Max Cady confrontation that Natalie could be his daughter.

35:06Rob:It's her buried shame that she thought she buried deep enough that it would not come back to her. And I felt so much sympathy for her because knowing what we know about Max Cady and his drugging tendencies and manipulative ways is just sort of like, Like he could have injected any given peach that she ate. And she had these blackouts before she met him. But like he seemingly to me took advantage of that. And like that's, you know, fucking sexual assault. And that's what she's describing here. That's why Natalie is so perturbed here. And so for to go then zoom back to that scene with Tom, because when Tom's like, what do you fucking mean you don't know?

35:47Rob:Yeah. And I'm with you. I'm like, yeah, Anna, what do you mean you don't know? And then later she tells us, I'm like, I'm sorry, Anna. I'm sorry that I was like on Tom's side in that scene. Because like, I understand Tom's frustration. For sure. And I understand why Anna is like not ready to talk about it until she is like fully fallen off the wagon. And she talks to Natalie about it. But like, so I like, this is like the one time I feel like the show has given us like a proper human explanation for why someone would be so like withholding. Yes. And dumb. KG for more than just plot convenience.

36:21Rob:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I mean, we're getting there. I still feel like we only know some of the story and maybe still not the entire picture. Like, does what Anna says about her shame and wanting to suppress it, and part of that is wanting to bury all of that shame and Max with it, somewhere where it'll never resurface again. Does that sufficiently explain the Max line, you put me away for what she did, which is the thing that Tom returns to. Really latches onto in this episode. I mean, it just comes right on back up. word for word, letter for letter. I think it could. And some of it will depend on what the extent of like burying Max really means.

36:55Yeah.

36:55Rob:To your point, we don't know the full story of the way in which Tom and Anna colluded. Yes. Like we don't know all of that information. Absolutely. But the why of Anna being willing to not wanting Max to be exonerated, but rather wanting him walked away and hidden is because it is associated with something that she feels ashamed of. Exactly. Even though she should not feel ashamed of it. And then I think that like what the larger ripples of that is what it makes this show about. Because let's say 90s, like what is Max Cade? What does Max Cade represent? This like elemental evil in the like 60s version.

37:32Rob:It's like you're nice, you know, kind, honorable family. And this like demonic presence has come to bedevil you or whatever. and then in the 90s as we've mentioned Nick Nolte has like a sin something that he did that isn't nearly on this level or whatever but like something that he did has come back to haunt him and so for this to now be sort of like Anna's hidden shame about something that I don't know all the details of but I'm inclined to be on her side given everything that we've seen Max Katie do like that she's hidden this thing that that if we lived in a better society she should not feel shame around and it has come to haunt her i think that's a potentially very interesting story to watch well especially because there's the overlaying dynamics there there's whatever her relationship was with max that's like awkwardly footed and they're figuring out it's like she just met this man and clearly they're swept up in something right but so she's trying trying to figure him out.

38:39And then there's everything going on with her just like addiction in general that I think is facilitating these blackouts. Yes. And so it's like she's feeling shame in probably several different directions at once in a way that she is trying to make sense of. And the fact that she can't even say confidently that like an encounter happened or at least doesn't with Natalie. Like I completely understand how she would have like buried this within herself to this point. Absolutely. How do you confront the thing that you don't even know yourself to be like 100 % factually true because you're living in this sort of constant haze of days on weeks of blackouts.

39:12Rob:Right. So like blackouts due to drinking and then blackouts potentially also due to being drugged. Could be. And like if, but my point, I guess, not that you contradicted anything I said, but my point is like, if it's due to the drinking, like alcoholism is a disease. And so like that is something I have a lot of empathy around. And then if it is due to being drugged, that's assault. And so, or some combination of the two, these are all things that I like would like the world to have empathy for the people who have like struggled through this. And oftentimes it doesn't. And especially in a world, in a world where like Anna has dedicated herself to this idea of like redemption and second chances, but cannot offer that quarter to herself is I think potentially good.

39:57Rob:I'm not sure that that's the show we're watching. Probably not. But the DNA is there. Sure. And I'll say too, as far as this kind of gray area we're talking about as far as like what even happened between these two characters. Right. This is kind of an adaptive sidestep too of the Max Cady's of iterations past are like clearly sexual predators. Yes. Like have often overtly raped, usually underage girls. We haven't had any allusion to that kind of backstory here. But if there is like a weird line crossing slash sexual assault that happened with Anna while she was under the influence or he was drugging her, that's like a twist on that kind of story.

40:34spun out in a different sort of direction.

40:36Rob:I will say whatever has happened between him and Crystal, I do not feel great about that either. Well, can we talk about that, friend? Because in episode, I believe it was episode six, we get Max's story about Lila where he is talking and you may remember this is like the big speech about the girl named Lila, the boy she was like tormenting who exacts his revenge. And we got some emails and we talked about in the episode of like wondering who he's referring to. Right. And he gives Anna a very like, you know what I'm talking about mid-speech. The details don't really line up to me to be about his relationship with Anna.

41:11They still feel like they would be more about his relationship with Crystal potentially. But the fallout, the punishment is like word for word, note for note, what he is doing to the Bowdens now. Right, about like, I want to make you feel the way I felt. Right. When like real or imagined the injustices that he thinks they have visited on him.

41:30Rob:Yeah. And he is trying to make Anna feel as powerless as he felt. Absolutely, absolutely. And so I did think it was interesting to get repeated allusions again in this episode to like people playing with mice or people playing, like cats playing with rats and mice as like this gigantic metaphor that won't go away regarding Max. But I do feel like we kind of closed the loop on the Lila story maybe. So you think it is Anna? I think it has come to be about Anna, but the beginning of that story about like the boy - This is just his MO then. Yes. This is just like - This is a process he perfected with Crystal.

42:02and is now using against Hannah. His sort of like idea of cosmic justice

42:07Rob:if he feels wronged by something. Yes. When Natalie finds her mom drunk and Natalie's like, I know a drunk lady when I see her. And she says she'll make her some coffee. Do you think that was Savannah Coffee Roasters? Except no substitutes. Yeah, absolutely. I had it written down. She just took a cup out of one hand, swapped it into Savannah Coffee Roasters. I mean, no free ads, but she's got to sober up in a quickness. It honestly worked. Did it? She took a nap and her daughter went across the street to shoot someone. Well, but then she had the mother's intuition to jolt up, as all mothers do, when your teenage daughter has shot someone.

42:39Rob:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. To recap, 2009 Javier Bardem. This is Vicky Cristina Barcelona Javier Bardem. This is Night at the Museum, Battle of the Smithsonian, Amy Adams. Amelia Earhart? Yeah. Okay, wow.

42:56Rob:Okay, before Natalie shows up and does the really dumb shit with a gun. Yeah. Mac's head injury without any observation. So this is a question we had previously. It was like when he's like, oh, my head in the car. And you're like, is he just faking it for Natalie? But we get this incident without anyone observing him. Yes. But I feel like the times where it does happen without anybody are all strobing lights. Like in this case, he looks directly into the police sirens. And then his head starts splitting. And then he sees the vision. Mac's son, holy bangs. Everyone is here. I thought the one in the car and I still do believe that one is the century

43:36do they not look even more immaculate every time we see them glossy perfection honestly really good but yeah to your point this one is clearly not faked he's alone in his own home until Natalie stumbles in with a gun

43:48Rob:yeah alright what he says to her before he goes her into shooting him precisely where it will not hit any organs you're about to learn things about the people you love, hard things, you need time to really understand, you will always have me. So part of his seduction tactic of like, I'm your dad, I'll take care of you, et cetera, et cetera. But I kind of had this moment of triumph when he says you're about to learn things about the people you love, hard things. To your point, we still don't know exactly what Tom and Anna did. But if he's trying to hold Anna's shame over Natalie in some way or something like that, like Anna already told Natalie, like you have no power here.

44:26Rob:Yes. Because Anna already came clean to Natalie about this. And also you don't, she does not look like the villain of that particular scenario. No. So like that's like, we got a sunshine problem here. Like we need to air everything out so that Max cannot have this ability to manipulate and, you know, use secrets as weapons, et cetera, et cetera. This is the closest that Natalie has come all season to like actually understanding what is happening. Yeah. And operating with that knowledge in a way that is not dumbfounding. Even earlier in this episode. I miss. She just keeps like earlier in this episode when Max calls her.

45:07Rob:Yeah. She just keeps divulging information you should not divulge to someone you were even remotely skeptical of. And here in the end, she shows up with the gun. She's like, I don't believe what you're saying. I'm here to kill you to save my family. and even then he manages to like twist her fear into something that he can manipulate and use for his purposes where would you have shot Max Katie I mean if you're gonna shoot I feel like you gotta shoot to kill no but where do you feel like that is I feel like that's in the head or the heart yeah I would do not my area I'm not not a gunman I think it's a headshot I mean you gotta be three in the head two in the head one in the heart you better not miss yeah not in the side regardless if you are going to shoot him.

45:49Here's the thing. Don't raise a gun at anyone you don't intend to shoot. That's like gun 101.

45:53Rob:Don't have guns. That's real gun 101. If you do have the gun and you raise it at somebody, be prepared to shoot them. Okay. Don't let Max T.D. Don't tremble. Close the space and nearly take it out of your hands and then position it conveniently into his gut where it will hit no vital organs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If your intent is to kill someone. Again, not our area. Where'd you get that information? Oh, the Prestige TV podcast. Yes, they told me exactly how to kill someone. All right, Anna goes into Max's hospital room. Yeah. Oh, I should say, so she, I missed, Natalie gets taken away, Anna goes to the hospital room to say, like, I'll say I did it.

46:32Rob:I want to go back, though. When Tom gets arrested, like, covering for Natalie, essentially, right? Kind of. She calls him dad. I think it's the first time she's called him dad. She calls him Tom the whole season, I think. And so she calls him dad, like, right before he goes out the door. Do you think that's going to keep him warm at night? You think he's doing all right in prison? Like, oh, man, she finally called me dad. Step Cup really stepped up this time. He really did step up, but Natalie really stepped down. She really blew it. I just thought, like, I've been sort of tracking, like, does Tom treat Natalie, who's not his biological kid, the same way he treats his toe-eating son?

47:17Rob:and there are some differences, but like he went to jail for her to a certain degree. Well, I think he also went to jail because there was evidence pointed specifically at him. That too, but he's just sort of like, you know, I'll go like, you know? Here's the thing. If he goes in there and says, my daughter took that gun and hung out with Max Cady on a road trip to North Carolina in which he used it to kill Ray, someone who doesn't really go to North Carolina very often, it seems, over there, I just don't think it's going to help his case. I don't think anyone's going to believe him, even if he said it.

47:48Rob:But he's like, I have more information. And it's this. This is how we can perhaps connect Max Cady to this particular crime. Yeah. If we know that Ray Rollins was at the Galilee, which is information that Anna has. That's confirmable. You know? Yes. The metadata speaks to it. If everyone's sharing all the information we have, I think we could have a case here. I'm not a lawyer. I think we could have the inklings of a case. but counterpoint the murder weapon is in the Bowdoin's closet locked in a safe the fingerprints are on it I thought he got rid of it somewhere else did he? well he's like we got it before they went in to see Detective Grayson after the laundry basket which was just a temporary resting place it's true before they went in he's like we gotta get rid of we gotta dump this weapon but where did he dump it?

48:31I don't know we've already established these two don't know how to do crime like his whole plan was like I'm gonna go over to Max's house I'm just trying to give Tom

48:38Rob:some credit and I think like Natalie saying, hey, it was me with the gun. And he's like, I'll just go to jail right now. Like that seemed very dad-like. I don't think that's what dads usually do. Tough. Tough for me to learn that here on this podcast. Anna's in Max's hospital room. How do you feel about this? This is a terrible plan. Awful. One of the worst plans. Deadly terrible. Show up in the one place. Your family cannot be seen near this man. He has manipulated. your husband into prison he hates you now yeah your daughter into prison she may never come out because she did shoot this guy she missed your son into thinking he is AI slop and your plan is to go into a place with lots of security cameras first try to bargain and then assault this man and then fondle him like he's a murder weapon there's there's just so many witnesses we see so many doctors and nurses really acknowledging her presence it's a terrible plan we end with Tom in prison Zach taking drugs or not Nevaeh looking on as Natalie walks in yeah and can we just to pick up with where did they leave off I'm gonna fucking kill you oh my god it's gonna be beautiful he's gonna tear you fucking people up piece by fucking piece fucking bitch that was Nevaeh's last words to Natalie shiv fest shiv fest um how do you think Natalie's like shiv whittling is Like, can she successfully create a shiv?

50:10Rob:I think Nevaeh was born Whitland, so I don't think Natalie can outwittle her at any time. You think it's more of a nature than a nurture thing? Yeah, I really do. I really do. I'm just curious if, like, one of the future episodes is called Shiv Fest. It's not, unfortunately. That's a bummer. But the scar is next week's episode. That could be shiv related. So I don't know what that is about. Okay. Tom's in prison. Zach's maybe taking his medication or not. The right dosage? Who's to say? Nevaeh looking on as Natalie walks in. Anna's got a gun. How many guns does this family own? This one wasn't even in the safe.

50:44Rob:This wasn't one of the ones from the safe? No, it's like a revolver. It's a totally different gun. There were like four or five handguns in the safe. And then the shotgun. But the handles all look similar to the Glock, which I think is a different... I thought there was a revolver in there. I mean, you are a gun guy. I did not freeze frame Mahoney it. Anyway, okay. Perhaps this is Anna's girly gun. Bonus gun. Yeah, bonus gun. she's got a gun she's going to Cape Fear River to the Galilee which I hope means Juliette Lewis is in next week's episode one can only hope and dream yeah yeah do you think when the cops were like don't leave town was that like a soft suggestion or was that a real suggestion why should she listen to anything these fucking cops say just doing their jobs ma 'am she's just gonna take she's gonna take matters into her own hands and when has that gone wrong for the Bowdoins on this show never a single time yeah but let me tell you the storm is a coming storm is a coming The cars on the road were hurtling toward Cape Fear, and that storm is not stopping for anybody.

51:40And I cannot wait for a climactic, rainy showdown. Thunder cracking in the back.

51:45Rob:On the Galilee? I would hope. Okay. Nearby, at least. So is it just Anna V. Max on the Galilee with the historical storm? And Crystal's the wild card, who Anna believes she has co-opted to her side through some force of plot and magic. Oh, but she wasn't in the humidor, so she doesn't know. She doesn't know all about it. About the spit relationship. No, that bonds people for life. Yeah. So I've been told.

52:14Rob:Did we discuss this episode when we came here? I think we did. Is there anything else you want to say? Joe, I do have one last thing to bring up. Natalie's shirt in the open of this episode, the first time we see Natalie on screen, she's wearing like an off-the-shoulder. Cat shirt. Cats and flowers. Yeah. This was the first time all season I'm like, that is Max's daughter. That's a style icon if I've ever seen one. You know? I don't know. You think Anna and Tom are coming up with that? You think you're pro that cat shirt look? I kind of liked it. Okay. I liked it as, you know, Natalie following her heart.

52:47These are the two things she apparently cares about. Well, I guess three. It's like these two had like nevayas.

52:52Rob:Would you wear an off-the-shoulder number with a dog on it? Not me personally. Okay. But if you can pull it off, I support anyone who can. Okay, great. I can't I had that cat shirt down as like bad idea but you're like great idea you think in the realm of Cape Fear bad ideas that was a bad idea think of a baby carrot at gmail.com if you'd like to weigh in on the cat shirt whether or not you think that was the look for Natalie so what's the problem is it that's a little to 2009 okay like wolves howling at the moon or what's your objection yeah three wolf I hate to besmirch my fellow cat people I don't think cats I don't think pets on apparel is a good look.

53:33Yeah. You think you should be ashamed of your pets and never take them in public or be proud of them. I don't think you should infantilize them in that way.

53:41Rob:Infantilize them? Yeah. Couldn't it be celebrating them? I don't know. I support you if you're at home and you're wearing a cat shirt right now. I support you. It doesn't sound like she is. She is not supporting you. I don't like it. I don't like it. Cats on things, I don't like it. I just think people should celebrate their pets. And I think Natalie's bond to peanut butter is beautiful. Money. Money. Well, to her, it's still peanut butter. I don't think she even knows about the money situation. Here's the problem for Natalie. No one tells her anything. She's just sitting at home, hanging out in the backyard in overalls.

54:14Nobody bothers to tell her what's going on.

54:16Rob:Why did I think peanut was a completely different word in Spanish? What did you think it was? I'm going to say a word that's not a word. Okay. This is podcasting, baby. like cacahuete is what I thought peanut was okay and manteca de cacahuete is peanut butter and that's butter of I thought cacahuete was peanut so maybe money is just like a cute way of saying peanut I don't know maybe it's like an affectionate like little peanut oh little peanut yeah if you just put cacahuete in Google it just says peanut think of a little peanut at gmail.com alright RIP little homie anything else you want to say about this.

54:56Let's go to the board.

54:57Rob:Okay, great. All right, now is the time on this very normal podcast. We are going to introduce the new cards that we are adding to our conspiracy board for Cape Fear. Only two more episodes to go after this. Do you feel like we're going to be able to cover all the cork by the time we're done here? I have the opposite concern, which is there's a lot going on here. It's quite busy. We've already had to take some things off just because they've left relevance. Characters have been replaced completely. Yeah, absolutely. We have increasing clarity. And this thing is messy and it's only going to get messier.

55:27Rob:Are your third eyes open? Always. All right. You want to start? I would love to. The security system upcharges. They didn't do jack shit. Didn't do a single thing. You really wanted that card to say useless security systems upcharges, but my hand was cramping out. That was probably redundant. I didn't get you pregnant, did I? We decided to add some quotes this week. They're in pink for some reason. Well, then let me add the corresponding quote from the recipient of this one. I missed. I missed. nothing else need be said the cloud is here don't worry about it you have a corresponding card somehow not the same thing but adjacent to yeah metadata absolutely very important in any virtual detective work you also have another corresponding card over there do you want to play it right now wait to the cloud yeah it's the one on top is it the storm you know a thing or two about storms you know you've been in this line of work for a long time is that a storm spoilers joke?

56:22Rob:Yeah. Great. Are we allowed? It's allowed. But the storms are coming. I hope people batten down the hatches. Oh my God. I hope they get in their storm cellars. What if their hatches are not battened? What if their hinges are all un? This show is already un and unbattened. My only hope when the storm does come. Yeah. It's Max and it's Anna and they're in a like in a little ditch under a road holding on to a pipe ever so tightly. Oh, you want that twister action. I really do. Okay, listen. Do we remember how to podcast normally? No. That's my question. No, we do not. Are we going to be able to like re-hinge and re-batten this podcast by the time that Slow Horses comes back?

57:02The thing is, that's already a pretty unhinged show. It's true. It could probably use a cork board.

57:06Rob:I really miss normal podcasting. All right, the revolver. Gun number three that we're adding to the board. The revolver. It's an important one. Also important, I mean, potentially a weapon of a different kind. Zach's hidden meds. They're being smuggled, at least I think. Do you think? I think it's more likely than not. I don't think you're seeing AI slops on if you're on your meds. Okay. So maybe this is the last time Zach sees them, but it sure looked to me like he was smuggling them under something on the table. Okay. A very specific region of the abdomen where your organs will not be injured by being shot by possibly your biological daughter who likes cat shirts.

57:44All very normal. Maternal instinct alarm clock. for one occasion and one occasion only. And it's when your teenage daughter shoots an adult man in that specified reason of the abdomen.

57:57Rob:All right, 2009 Javier Bardem. This is what Anna was working with. Tough, tough for all of us. And then Crystal Scrapbook. This is Rob's suggestion. It's really more of like a smear of photos on the table. I guess it's a collage now that I think about it. Yeah, her vision board of stocking. Yes. I do think it's aspirational scrapbooking though. She's bought all the supplies. She's laid out all the photos. And like many people, she has become overwhelmed with the possibility. Is she going to scrapbook it or is she going to corkboard it? If she comes up with a corkboard in the finale. I dare not compete with a Juliette Lewis level corkboarding.

58:32We are going to ascend into heaven directly if she has the corkboard in the finale.

58:36Rob:All right. As a happy grandfather would be if he finally got the opportunity to watch Monsters University with his grandkids. It's all he wants. Let this man watch a Pixar movie. Brandon Devereaux. Brad DeRoe. Last but not least, Rob did let me have it. Charcuterie. I think I finally am wrapping my head around this pun. I can't support it, but I do support you. Thank you. That's our podcast. Thanks so much to Jacob Cornett, who's here with us today. Dev Rinaldo. Kai Grady. I don't know. Who else are we thinking? Gun number five. Okay. Time will only tell. Drug injected peaches. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

59:16And Mendy, always.

59:18Rob:You've seen the movie. You haven't seen the movie Labyrinth. You have seen the movie? I have, yeah. Okay. You remind me of the babe. Well, remember how he gives her that poison peach that causes her to hallucinate? Of course. Do you think this is where Max Cady got the idea to inject the peach? Again, I just want to see the ideation stages of all of his various stunts. He's at home watching Labyrinth as one does. And he's like, that's a great idea. I gotta get me some peaches. Zach is like, my brain is now jumbled into a series of movie scenes. and meanwhile Max Cady's like, actually these movie scenes are pretty instructive.

59:50Labyrinth is great.

59:51Rob:Okay, thanks to everyone. We'll see you soon. Bye. Bye.

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