‘Cape Fear’ Episode 9: Risk It for the Biscuit

23:32And she clearly wants to stop short of actual murder, but is being like egged on ever so lightly by her dad who does not care about her? I think what's interesting is like earlier in the season, you and I thought Nevaeh was someone who was like quite eager to murder. She just like had that knife out, just like seemed like she really wanted to murder. So is it that she objects to murder in general or is that she objects to murdering Natalie, her sister who she's come to care for in a biscuit way? Yeah, see, at first I was kind of wondering, is Nevaeh reverse playing Natalie in this kind of encounter moment?

24:03Like, are they both trying to get closer to each other, spy versus spy style? A deadly tango. This is what I was thinking. But I think everything we see after the fact in the, you know, post-prison nut clarity, is Nevaeh at her most vulnerable that she's been all season? Is that not a thing? You heard me say in a biscuit way, and you were like, I got a one-off her with post-prison nut clarity. You're very special. Thank you. All right. Let's go back to Crystal and Anna. I love this dynamic. Crystal fucking hates Anna. Okay, so what we learned about Crystal, which I don't think was incredibly clear before this episode, or entirely clear, is that, well, she killed Melissa.

24:44That's interesting information. What role did she have in all of the Amy stuff? I actually don't feel like we know that full story, but she was friends with Amy. Did she serve Amy up in some way to Max? Could have been. Or at least been his kind of boots on the ground there. But no matter what, between like Amy and Melissa, you know, because earlier in the season we heard her say like, I warned them about him. and I took that to mean like he fucked me up. So I don't, as a girl's girl, I don't want any other woman to go through that. That does not seem to be what's going on with Crystal here. Crystal is like, he's mine.

25:22I'm warning you. Yeah. Back off ladies. They didn't seem to take the advice. Called Anna Princess. Okay, here's one of the worst writing in this episode, I think, which is like, do you learn that from your sorority sisters? And then Anna goes, maybe I taught their boyfriends and their boyfriends taught them. This is the weird energy I was talking about. I was like, what is this? What is that? Can I blame on writing more than anything else? Can I single out some of the best writing in this episode? Oh, please. I mean, we moved on maybe too quickly from Nevaeh and Natalie, but he told me to break into your house and spike the tea with acid and to seduce your brother and make him bite off his own toe.

25:58I just sometimes have to sit back and appreciate that this is a line from an actual show we are watching and covering in great detail. And that's just a factual statement that Nevaeh made. Sometimes when someone's recording you, you need to get very explicit and plain spoken about the crimes that you committed. But also, why the toe? Like, what was the point of specifically this kid needs to bite off his own toe? We've been talking about that toe all season. It's such like a horrifying thing to have happen. Oh, for sure. I think it's a great idea that Max had. I just thought maybe it was more incidental.

26:26Let's maim them. Let's maim the child. I guess. But just like specifically, he needs to think of a baby carrot and bite off his own toe. Think of a baby carrot at gmail.com for all of your Cape Fear questions, concerns, theories. Also, if you're with me on the tuna salad front, it really doesn't need much more than tuna and mayo, honestly. I just can't support it. And then like a really nice piece of toasted like weedy oaty bread. That's it. No, thank you. That's the energy. I would say there's a third confirmation in this episode. It's one that Crystal is Luke's mom at minimum and that probably Max is his dad.

26:58Two. I think Max is his dad, definitely. But you don't think, you think Crystal might not be his mom? Again, what about this Melissa theory? Maybe that's a half confirmation. But that Crystal did kill Melissa. Yeah. We feel confident about that. She seemed like she confessed to it. It seemed to be everything but, at least. She didn't deserve that kind of life. And third, that Crystal, as we suggested in previous episodes, is the Lila from the story that Max has been telling earlier. Yeah, Max got really inventive and was like, instead of Delilah, I'll call her Lila. Good sleuthing work from Anna.

27:33I don't know about that. she's rifling around like once again Crystal loves to keep all of her stuff in just like a little slop pile on a surface right photos we have our stuff on a slop board are we any better absolutely there are categories there are push pins and there's string this is just merely slopped onto the table and Anna sort of rifles through she does and finds exactly the piece of information she needs ah Delilah she must be Lila I have this written down. Tell me if this is anything. I think you're really underestimating Anna in this episode. Am I? Yeah. This is what I have written down.

28:10Hey there, Delilah. What's it like in Cape Fear City? Anna's snooping in your boat and now she knows you're Crystal Katie. Yes, it's true. Is that anything? Is that a thing?

28:25Joe, you got to give me something. What you got? Are you going to finish it out? Can I just say that like that came on when I was in the Sprouts the other day that came and it's such like grocery store music now. Hey, there's a Lila. And I was just like. Like Pavlovian, like muttering the lyrics to myself as I was in the produce section, like I couldn't help myself. I was mesmerized, but I was like, oh, this is what it's like to like when we were younger, walked around a grocery store and it was just music, like music playing. And our parents would be like, that's the power of love, you know, but it's playing my tease now.

29:00So did you feel like lulled into a state of like capitalistic coercion? Like because you're muttering the pussycat style, I think like a little bit of hypnosis so that you'll, you know, grab the thing you don't eat off the shelf. I did. I did. Alfonso, you got to get the good mangoes. I'm telling you. That was incredible work from you. Thank you. You're welcome. Amy's stepmom Brenda had a pet raccoon and I just think that's an important piece of information that we learned in this episode. Rest in peace too. Yeah, yeah. And then just everything we learned about Crystal doing donuts in the Piggly Wiggly.

29:36Her, the guard that she dated because she's hot and crazy. Like I got in a fight with a window and that's how I got this scar. Is that how she got that scar? I don't know. Unclear. I mean, I just think Juliette Lewis is like every single line delivery is really, really fun and exciting. This is my problem with Anna as a counterpoint, who I think we've had frustrations with throughout the season for various reasons. She's a bit mayonnaise for you. She's a little bit mayonnaise. I mean... And you want a spicy aioli. You want to mix that kikuman in. I want an entirely different condiment. I'm not sure that whatever condiment Crystal Katie is makes sense with whatever you're trying to make happen.

30:13But if you had a whole Crystal breakout episode, if half of this season was just following Crystal around, I would have loved it. This season needed way more Crystal Katie. Yes. Like, I understand the, like, fun surprise of holding Juliette Lewis back and then just, like, surprising and delighting us. But once we had her, like, we should have held on to her because she's gold. And this is what happens with Yellow Jackets. Juliette Lewis was, like, the lifeblood of Yellow Jackets. One of. There's a few others. But, like, she left that show. Just went all the way downhill after Juliette Lewis left.

30:46If you have the Lewis, you use the Lewis. That's what I'm saying. Self-explanatory. Yeah. Everything about the weirdness of that character, what she's bringing to the performance, even the physical parts of it where when she walks around, she has a weird like wispy thing she's doing with her arms. I'm just like, I just want to know everything about this woman. And I also just don't know how much of that is Crystal and how much of that is just Juliet Lewis. Unclear. Juliet Lewis-ing around. Can we talk about Amy Brancato's Conspiracy Board? I would love to. Which, tomato sauce or not. Aspirational.

31:17There's just a lot there. Oh, Freeze Fairy Mahoney? Were you on the case? Of course I was on the case. Well, we've seen glimpses of it earlier in the season when Amy shoots herself in the head twice. It's how the tomato soup got there in the first place. We needed to see the origin story of the tomato soup. At that time, we criticized some of the headlines, which are like, guilty with an exclamation point. Or my least favorite that we see here, prosecution lays out KD murder case. No. Speaking of mayonnaise, I have a new favorite, though. Has anyone ever told you you're writing Miss Mayonnaise?

31:47Like, did an editor ever be like, you gotta keep them on up that headline, it's a little mayonnaise. First of all, I'm insulted. We've all written a single mayonnaise headline in our lifetime. I mean, I'm sure it's happened. Yeah. But I would hope that the editors I'm working with are kind enough to not say that to my face. Editor's not notoriously kind. Would you like to hear a headline that is not mayonnaise? Please. My absolute favorite on this collage. I really love it. I think it's gonna need to go on the board at the end of this episode. It simply says... Swamp law. We've been barking up so many of the wrong trees.

32:23I know, swamplawgmail.com. Well, first of all, how do we get Max Cady a restraining order? How do we keep him away from the Bowdoin kids? What has he tried for in a conventional legal system? But this is swamp law. Yeah, it's like main justice. The rules are all different. I feel like maybe Anna is a little overmatched when it comes to swamp law. Okay. How does the gator bong play into swamp law, do you think? Oh, they're legal, first of all. You know, that's not an accessory. Okay, I've already asked you this burner phone question. If you're leaving a noose in the cell of your enemy, is it a nice fluffy bedsheet noose?

33:03What are we doing? I guess we're working with what we have. Yeah, what's the alternative? I just found that, and I'm sorry to critique the fine work of the inmates of this particular establishment, But I found that noose to be quite like sort of like fluffy and cozy looking. I think we needed to shred the sheets a bit more and get something that looked a bit more menacing than that particular noose. Well, I would say this one. Because you're not looking to cradle your neck in comfort. Fine Egyptian cotton when you're when you're, you know, being driven to suicide. But you are looking for plausibility.

33:35Right. And so it's like if this man did kill himself, wouldn't he like he's not going to do with something he doesn't already have in his room. So yeah, the only options... Shred up the sheets. Does that actually change anything? Yeah, you get like a sort of like a rope-ier, knot-ier sort of situation. Maybe. But does Tom Bowden know how to do that? Tom Bowden doesn't know how to do anything. He really doesn't. Although I would argue this whole ploy from Max, do you think he actually thinks it might work? Nudging Tom to the point of hanging himself. Yes, because I think he thinks Tom is a beta cuck that can be talked into killing himself.

34:08He talked Amy Brancato into killing himself. Also, what's possible right now is that Max is just overplaying his hand across the board. I think that may be true. You know, and I wondered based off of his reactions, if he actually cared if Tom did it or not, or if it was just to kind of antagonize him a bit. Just kind of like, yeah, just a bit of fun. I'm bored. I'm looking for Anna. Let me do this. But if it was intended to work, I know Tom idolized his brother. Clearly, he is playing into this idea that was explored earlier in the season of like Tom needs control. Right. He wants like something he can do to save his family.

34:37and Max is kind of pushing him in that direction. I just think given his relationship with his brother and his brother's suicide, why would he visit that trauma on his own family by then killing himself? It just doesn't really add up as something that might actually work. Here's what I'll say about Max Cady. He cares enough to find out about the brother when I don't even think Anna knows about what happened with the brother. Wow. You're saying Max is the truest partner that Tom has ever had. You know, bars in hell, but here we are. the Max and Noah scene. Yeah. I was worried for a second that Max was going to kill every black character on this show.

35:15And I was like, please don't. But Noah survives. She's just sort of like, fuck you. Yeah. And she survives the encounter. Did you think she was going to make it out of that room alive? I thought she was. Really? Okay. I was worried. The door was closed. I just don't think Max is feeling the need to act less and less, right? Like he's more just menacing here than lying. But I don't think he's to the point of killing people in offices with lots of witnesses around. I don't know. I just like we're in the end game now. I feel like anything goes, but it might. She made it out. She was not intimidated.

35:45No, not a bit. He got the information he needed anyway. He did leave her with a you look beautiful kissy face moment, which I thought was peak Bardem. Bardem is just bringing it week to week, moment to moment, scene to scene. But yeah, I think Max is a character. Just the fact that he is here in the first place, he's getting desperate, right? Like he is trying to figure out how to track down Anna. Nevaeh was supposed to squeeze Natalie. I guess did squeeze Natalie. Did not work as far as the information gathering goes. Right, because Natalie squeezed Nevaeh instead. I think they kind of squeezed each other.

36:15They sure did. He tried going at Noah here. He gets nowhere. Fortunately, Anna's in a very convenient place with lots of other people to tell him where to go. So, all's well done. The moment where Anna says to Crystal, you don't have anything he wants. And then Crystal's like, uh-oh, I got you though, girly. You know what I mean? This is your sleuth, Anna? She does a really good job. Your crack detective? She gets away. That was like a real biting fantasy layer of sarcasm from you. I didn't enjoy it. She gets the USB. She gets away. She does. Well, she knows Max's weakness. Water. He can't swim.

36:53Jump in the water? I don't know if he even sees her. I don't think so. Yeah, because she's off the back of the boat, right? And he's too distracted by the chuckle-fuck members of his family and what they're doing at the front of the boat. Well, one of them is blind and angry and waving around a gun and pistol whipping his father. Yeah. So there's a lot happening. Yeah, there's a lot going on. But yeah, Anna swims away. I don't know. She gets a lot of information. She finds out who the real killer was and she gets away. I think Anna did a great job in this episode. I don't think River Cartwright on slow horses could do any better.

37:22I'll tell you that much right now. Well, famous fuck of River Cartwright. If the point is that Anna could be a slow horse or beat a slow horse. I think she could definitely beat a slow horse. The bar is where the bar is. Yeah. she does get a knife through her hand though a fish knife okay why a fish knife more than anything else is tough for you to see well they just took it off the table with the fish guts that's guts straight into your hand like not just a fish knife but a fishy knife yes a lot of fish based crimes in this episode a lot I mean well we get the very menacing like pile of fish heads when Anna rolls up and it's like nothing good is going to happen once you see the pile of fish heads correct then she offers Anna a beer from the cooler that also just has a bunch of dead fish in there as you would gotta keep them on ice a nice crisp morning beer and morning fish yeah um I just love that that the opening credits when Anna like wakes up in the boat and the Cape Fear sort of like logo goes out or whatever and it's just like Crystal's just like unbothered having a beer and catching some fish on the side of the dock it's true she's living her life can I give one note on that scene though oh please why can't the boat be adrift why can't we be on the water.

38:31I was sort of hoping it would be on the water. When we did like the pull out, I was hoping we would be at sea. I know it's not no way out. And by at sea, I mean a river. Yeah, because clearly it's a river so you could just jump out and swim to the shore. But I feel like just it's on the dock. Yeah. It maybe gives, it takes away some of the charge that you're getting in that moment. That's true.

38:52Settle down, son. You're going to get some crate time. As you mentioned, you think zero crate time is what Luke should have received in his lifetime. It doesn't seem to be the case. Yeah. A secret son. I don't know. How do you, like, this is a really interesting development, especially since, like, earlier in the episode he was introduced as, like, just a kid we have watching the dogs. Yes. So why, if he's just, they're hiding him because he's Max's son. That's presumable. And if Max knows that he has a son, he'll get weird about it. But does he know? No, I'm just saying that that's the reason to hide and lie about his identity.

39:24Yeah, I'm just not so certain that Max doesn't already know. And frankly, I think it's a little unclear when Anna does call him to say, I figured it out. I know who did the murder. Also, you have a secret son. You've supposedly given up for adoption. Never happened. He's right here at your father's house the whole time. I mean, Bardem gives this kind of sly smile that's either Anna, you're wildly off base or just finding another way to toy with her with this particular story. Oh, I already knew that. Yeah, like maybe kind of amused that she's putting things together. So I really don't know what's true or what's not from that perspective at this point.

39:59But I agree with you. It probably does make the most sense in terms of narrative closure for Luke to be Adam. I just, I don't know if that's where we're headed. Is this a show for narrative closure? It doesn't seem like it. Only one more episode by now. Anything we haven't talked about that you want to make sure we hit? I do want to circle back to Zach for a second. Oh, your favorite. Well, I mean, always. I would like to put it to you. You know, you asked me, like, do I think he escaped from the facility? Did someone come and get him? Did Max come and get him? I'm like, what is there for him to do at this point?

40:29Like, we can put out the APB. Weird kid, four toes, strange vibe. Nine toes, to be fair. Well, fair enough. Thinks he's AI slop. Yeah. You know, responds to Adam. Uh-huh. But like, what is he up to? What would he be trying to do? Find Max? I guess. I just can't. When Tom calls him on the burner Nokia. Yeah. and is like, uh, is it you? Right? That's a sort of like, have you broken the spell? Is it you? And he's like, it is me. For the record, it's been like 24 hours. And I kind of believe that it is him. Yeah. But then he sees the AI slot son and so that's maybe shakes it loose. Unsettling. I don't know.

41:13Yeah. It's also clear we should say that Zach does not know that his father has been accused of murder and is currently in prison. No, he's like, we're doing fine, y 'all. We're missing you at home. Don't worry about the prison sounds you hear in the background. Made a new picture, asked team. A storm's still a Bruin. Yeah. What else do you want from the finale? I need that tree to fall in the bone backyard. Oh, okay. I don't know if we're going back there, though. Is everything going to be pointing to Cape Fear River or is all the action going to be there? That's a lot of characters that get up to Cape Fear River.

41:41I feel like the action has to split up a little bit or maybe everyone needs to come back to Savannah. And also, we should say just in Cape Fear terms, based on the previous movies, I feel like there always is Maybe this is a mild spoiler. So like if you don't want to hear anything about the movies, jump ahead like 30 seconds. But like there's always a kind of a big showdown around the house. And I feel like we haven't gotten that. OK, so you want everyone back at the Bowdoin. I would like it. Homestead. Plus, I mean, very tasteful greenery around there. Some great wallpapering. Also, you're telling me before we started recording that if you don't get to see Lexi in the finale, you're going to riot.

42:14I'm a little upset that she just has been kicked to the curb. Yeah. Or maybe she's partnered by now. Maybe it's all good for honestly, if you're not appearing on Cape Fear and you live in Savannah, I think your life is going pretty great. Everything's going well for you. Do we need the detectives to come back and be involved in some way? Just glib it up? They gotta die, I would think. You think they need to die? They've been really bad at their jobs, I think, and really snide while being bad at their jobs. So the cops need to die. The kids need to go in the crate. Anyone else you want to point in any particular direction?

42:43And just mayo and tuna on a sandwich is great. Good Lord. First Randy Newman, and now this. Should we go to the board? Let's go to the board. All right. This is our second to last opportunity to put stuff on the board. I'm honestly sad about it. I know. Not that we have room. It's looking great, honestly. I think it's some of the best work we've ever done. I really agree. I'm going to start us off strong. It's the title of the episode. Big old scar. It's a big one. It's a big old scar. Not a lot of explanation on said scar. I don't think a fish knife made it. I really hope not. How about Amy Brancato's homemade tomato soup?

43:18It's all over her board. It's not on ours yet. I hope it never will be. Probably should have said tomato bisque. Bisque is just inherently funnier than soup. That's so much grosser though somehow. Baby doll Katie. Did I misspell it? Don't worry about it. Baby doll Katie. One other relic from the Katie family. The flash drive that is now river soaked and in no way should be functional. Waterproof? Question mark? I do not know of one. I don't know why you gave me this card because this is your beautiful turn of phrase. Thank you. Prison post-nut clarity. Well, I gave it to you because I took one of yours in turn, which is Natalie's biscuit.

43:56A phrase we used more on this episode than I frankly feel comfortable with. Here's something we forgot to talk about, but Melissa's tacky heart necklace. Gotta talk about it. That's important. It seems to be a clue in the Swamp Law case. Why do you think it's important? Was it the initial holding camera shot of it in the photograph or the residual, like the returns to it periodically every so often? I just think if the story is this, if the story is that Max treated Crystal like trash, but treated Melissa like gold. And this is this fucking Claire's boutique necklace. That's it. What he's giving her.

44:32Costume jewelry. Yeah. Aspire to better. You know, if you're out there courting your Max Katie, I promise you, you can do better. Do differently. Don't. How about the many burner phones that are happening on the show? But I would say most importantly, the one that was Nevaeh's is now in Natalie's possession. I would think it would have a lot of texts and or messages from Max on it. Because this has to be just what's transpired between them and prison, right? Oh, yeah. I guess it would only be from this visit. You're right. Not the earlier messages, which they might already have access to anyway.

45:06Right. Because she couldn't have brought that cell phone in with her. Yeah. We should also note on the flash drive that maybe water soaked, supposedly Crystal has proof of Max doing crimes. luring Amy into killing herself? Could be. I don't know exactly. But she said she has voice memos that were in Amy's possession. But that's what I thought. It was like him nightly being like, kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself. You do it long enough. I mean, you've already taught people to use guns on this pod. It's been a very educational experience. Be very careful with your power. Consider it for your children.

45:42Or don't, because you will be subject to swamp law. the arm of the, I was going to say of the gator, but their arms are quite short. Oh, okay. The snout of the gator is long. Are there any long-armed critters in the swamp? I mean, there's long bodies, you know? A lot of snakes out there. Oh, yeah. Clearly the gators and the crocs will get you. Okay. Maybe a catfish. The gators and the crocs? I thought those were in two different, like, geographical locations. Well, Florida, we got gators for sure. Yeah. Where do the crocs live? I think, like, South America. Wow. Maybe they got imported. Maybe they're an invasive species.

46:17Like maybe someone brought a crock. Now they're co-mingling with the alligator. We've gotten a lot of possum versus opossum emails from people. How would you sum them up? I would say this. And this is something I did already know. That a possum and opossum are two different animals. Sure. And I did know that. A possum is like, I think, Australian or New Zealand animal. A completely different animal. and that opossum or opossum is the American critter. Do I agree with you that most people call the American critter just simply possum? I do, but some people call it opossum, and that is what I've learned.

46:55So you're saying they're correct. I'm saying I'm right. Drunken master Anna Bowden. Put her on the case. She seems to be doing a better job than sober Anna. I'm just not sure about that, but hey there, Delilah. Don't you worry about the distance. okay that's the end of this podcast we'll be back at the finale uh we might have something special cooking up for the finale i'm i'm unsure what we will see um anything else you want to say rob before we go simply nothing left what what can we say that the board is not already said for us post cape fear plans we've got some great plans of cooking we also i don't i don't think i can officially announce it yet but i will just say if you're in la keep your eyes out um we'll be doing a live show in August in LA.

47:40We can't quite announce what it is yet, but that's our first live show. Our first ever live prestige TV podcast. So if you're in LA and you want to come out, hang out with us and hear us talk about television, perhaps with some other folks, then keep your eyes peeled because we should be doing that next month. So hopefully we can announce that officially soon. And thank you to Jacob Cornett, DeVernaldo, who, uh, you know, zoomed in from across the country and to Kai Grady and to Justin Sales, who's here in the office today. and to Cape Fear for keeping it absolutely bad shit all the time. We'll see you soon.

48:11Bye.