‘Cape Fear’ Series Premiere Recap: A New Terror

27:11Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experienced vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills, taking ZipBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zipbound.lily.com. Debuting Sunday at 9, exclusively on AMC and AMC+. I am the vampire Lestat. I'm a rock star now. I'm a little killer.

27:51From Anne Rice's Immortal Universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history. Thousands of fans love you. I want millions. It's my era. Anne Rice's The Vampire List. Debuts Sunday at night exclusively on AMC and AMC+. Okay, so through the magic of editing, and perhaps Cameron, who's editing this podcast, can put it down here at the bottom. think of a baby carrot at gmail.com is how you can reach us i'm very happy about it and also was very upset at that line of dialogue i love a baby carrot do you still it's the jar for me zach i'm not a fan of there's i should say uh this is there is a son character in the book there has been no son character in the two movies so we're we're adding back in people let's let's let's go through character by character okay and talk about all the mysteries and questions we have around these characters there are so many let's start with max katie himself javier bardem blue contacts why they're very unsettling i honestly think this is part of it like this character needs to have kind of an uncanny thing to him and if he's gonna be a little smoother in terms of his working with people our familiarity with javier bardem being like turned against us, but like there's just something off looking at him, I honestly think is part of the package.

29:17I also wonder if it's meant to match Amy Adams' eyes. Could be. Which are, the way the color grading is working on this show, they're like ultramarine. Yes. They're like really popping. And so if, you know, I think the promo image is like their two faces sort of blurring into each other. So if the point is to be like two sides of the same coin, we're not so different, you and I, like having these matching eyeballs might be part of that too. Speaking of, we got far afield with the baby carrot of all this, the physical presence of Max Cady is part of it. But you asked about like whether he's actually invoking some kind of witchcraft or magic or like what is making him such a good manipulator.

29:56I don't know the cause, but like clearly he is established as someone who can get people to do all kinds of things. Well, his father was a dog trainer. Yeah. And so I'm wondering how much of this is like the dog, you know, because we get in the flashback, we see that his father put him in a cage among other things and trained him, you know uh so through like behavioral cues or whatever like in terms of like how did he get zach to eat his own toe or whatever when he wasn't even there like you know are there you know can he call someone as it seems like he does with his mistress and and say certain things and get you do something because he's trained you he's hypnotized you so well is it hypnotic suggestion is it is it some kind of witchcraft is it just like a more conventional kind of humanistic manipulation i don't know i don't know but those bulls are he's doing stuff i don't know what it is leading to when anna and we'll get to all of our questions about anna when anna saw those bulls at first i was wondering if she would recognize them from like stuff that max katie had done before but she seemed when she asked her daughter she's like do you know what all this shit is why are they making a bigger deal out of like the witchcraft shit that's in their day i don't know No, I feel like if somebody, if I found evidence of random hexes in my unfinished room, I'd be a little freaked out.

31:10Also, finish that room. It feels like it's like exposed to the outdoors. Apparently. It's very confusing. The possum's just living in there and we're firing contractors left and right. Blue contacts on Javier Bardem. Yep. Dog trainer father. Some weird shit around Christianity and his father as well, obviously. Eyeball tattoos. Facility with tech. Brain damage. Glitches. Sees his dead wife and son. Yeah. And the glitches seem to, I mean, sometimes coincide with like flashes of light or things like that, as all happens for a lot of people with a lot of different conditions. I don't know what the spazzing out is going to ultimately lead to, but it does make it particularly terrifying when you, when you've seen what he can do.

31:50yeah the idea that he would be out of control for even a second and this is to me what's the most terrifying thing about him with all of this plausible deniability right like you have this revelation in episode two where amy adams's character is like connecting the dots between the text from angel x and like something that uh max katie has said yeah and it's like if all of these things that she believes are true then he's like so far ahead he's laying the seeds in like the conversations and the speeches it's like he's like catch up completely it's like it's so terrifying to think that you could be that far behind and yet i feel like javier burdam kind of sells that sort of intelligence mr policeman i gave you all the clues okay fingers and toes it was right there anna bowden uh got sober at one point yeah after the trial that was kind of a like a throwaway line.

32:42I think very important. Almost like 80 yard in, it felt like. Loose cannon, potentially bipolar father, has a bad relationship with him. Yes. And here's a seed I'm going to plant. Again, I have not watched past episode two. I believe she fucked Max Gaty. And I think her daughter is his biological daughter. That's what I think. That would be a hellscape of a show. Well, here's my thought. Okay. So one of the creepiest, the creepiest things, I think, well, it's a long list, but Max Cady in the various versions creeps around the teenage daughter. This is like his thing. This is why De Niro and Juliette Lewis were nominated for Oscars.

33:29Oscars right um by the way 1991 uh I saw an interview that Scorsese gave in 92 or 93 perhaps where he was talking about the scene between De Niro and and Juliette Lewis in the school in the original where he comes and he's like um seducing her yeah and he like sticks his finger in her mouth and then he kisses her yeah um first of all so Juliette Lewis was 17 playing younger She's wearing like a retainer. It's very upsetting. She was 17. De Niro improvised the finger in the mouth thing and he told Scorsese he was going to do it. Scorsese was like, great. Let's not tell the girl that you're going to do it.

34:11So that like fear and uncertainty you see on Juliette Lewis, that's her being like, why is Robert De Niro a 50-something-year-old man, 40-something-year-old man sticking his finger in my mouth? Last but not least. Juliette Lewis has lived a life, man. That was the first year the MTV Movie Awards did Best Kiss and they nominated that kiss from Cape Fear. Are you kidding me? I'm not kidding you. First of all, what teens out there were like, let's go watch Cape Fear? Everyone watched Cape Fear. I guess that's fair. It's just, oh my God, that is a horrendous decision. So I think they're hard swerving away from Max Katie creeps around the teenage daughter in this version.

34:52And you think the hardest swerve is what if he is her dad? I think he's her dad. They're not going to do that. And here's all the swerves they're doing. Yeah. She seems like she might be gay. Yes. So I don't think she's going to be seduced by. Oh, Joe, I got news for you. She is gay. I mean, she's gay, but she could be bi. She could be bi, but like. She wants to kiss her friend. She likes Megan Rapinoe shoes. Fan of Megan Rapinoe is the new friend of Dorothy, as far as I'm concerned. So we'll make her queer. His biological daughter. Yep. And the person he's seducing and catfishing is the son, actually.

35:24Oh boy. I mean, it does seem like that is what has been set up. So like in terms of what secret could Anna be keeping from Tom? Because there are moments where she has opportunities to tell Tom things and she's not telling him. The fact that she fucked Max Katie and got pregnant by him and he's like, I never told anyone what happened and why would I start now? And all that sort of stuff like that. I think there's a watch on this show where you gloss past that as like something about hiding the evidence or some way she messed up the case. or like didn't file a thing on time or whatever. But now that you're laying it out, I think you're absolutely right.

35:58That there is clearly a secret between them that is distinct from whatever conspiracy to commit thing she has going on with Tom. Yeah. And the way that those secrets intersect and what kids may be involved as a result, I mean, my skin is crawling just thinking about it. Because I like this idea. I mean, I hate this idea, but I like this idea of Natalie being seduced, not sexually, but sort of like this bleeding heart. you know when she overhears her parents say like we had to do it you know and she asks her mom something about that like right he had to plead right so this idea that she's just sort of like believes Max Cady wasn't guilty and then maybe finds out he's her real dad and all of these sort of things like that would be extremely tough she's talking to her real dad Paul on the phone who seems deeply checked out of everything and there's an actor playing him but he's not like an actor who is like known for anything.

36:54So I don't think that her biological dad, Paul, is going to play a huge role in this show. So that's where my mind went. Straight into the gutter, it turns out. I guess so. Okay, let's talk about Tom Bowden, Captain America himself. Yeah. Patrick Wilson. I love Patrick Wilson. I'm so glad he's here. A joy every time. And do you think it was his idea to be like, should they see my arms? Do you think? Should I put my sleeves up a little bit? Should I go sleeveless for breakfast? Do you think Tom Bowden would do that? That's one does. Mental health issues in his family. He was very squirrely when the doctor was asking about the history of mental health issues in his family.

37:29Flashback to something in his teen years. It seems like his flash. When he's with Zach in the hospital and there's a flash of something. And it looks like a teenage boy walking into a room. It does. And maybe this is just me being masters of the universe pilled having just seen it. But it sure looks like a He-Man poster on the wall. Which would suggest time frame wise it would be him and not somebody else. I was trying to, so that not the one on the door, but like inside. Inside the room, yeah. Okay, I was trying to timestamp the one on the door and I couldn't really get it. Yeah, that's what it looked like to me.

37:56But look, it could be another half naked man in a loincloth type getup, you know? Beastmaster, let's hope. Okay. Extramarital affair? Perhaps. This is a, you know, a Cape Fear classic. Or a bait and switch. That's a very ambiguous, that's like sort of what we're meant to think. There's a woman on the phone and she's like, I don't want to be weird, but you want to hear about this. We got to talk about it. We need to meet, et cetera. et cetera. Follow question. If he is having an ex-murial affair, is there any possibility that it is Callie, his daughter's friend in a very American beauty kind of way?

38:29I hope not. Callie who's like your dad's hot. She's interested. Yeah. And look, I think a lot of people would be interested. I hope for Tom's sake. Patrick Wilson. That's not what's happening. You know, the man is dripped and handsome. Okay. Microdosing mushrooms? Yeah. What's going on exactly? I think for anxiety, he's microdosing mushrooms. So we think GHB? What do we think? I don't know. I don't microdose mushrooms. But what else do you microdose with a dropper like that? Like GHB is the only thing I could think of. Like something sedative. Yeah. It's like a take the edge off kind of drug, clearly.

39:01So, and he's doing it in a way slightly surreptitiously. So whatever he's microdosing to take the edge off, A, it could be a secret that he's keeping or B, something that could be laced at any point. we've seen him put that dropper on his tongue twice and max katie could put anything in that bottle and what could happen to patrick wilson just the vulnerabilities we welcome into our lives it's crazy okay so that's my tom boden rundown zach boden the sophia thing yeah no friends it seems like he had the few that maybe stuck with him after the sophia thing he seems to have abandoned for the sake of angel x angel x who among us all right drugs she is what was what What was Dirty Hot?

39:44Dirty Hot. She is Dirty Hot. Yeah. Drugs? Willingly or not. Like smoking weed, we're told, but also this seems deeper than that. In Love Slash Lust with Angel X. Yeah. Has a secret cell phone. The whole burner situation. Listen, I'm rooting for you, Anna Bowden. But the fact like, and first of all, I loved the whole, what's this picture and used his face to unlock the phone. Great. It's a good move. Great move. but also if your son's going through all this stuff I think you need a back door into his phone no matter what that feels like why are we giving this kid a locked phone and also they just like leave like the fact that he can like wander out into the night and his sister has to go bring him back home like why isn't this kid under more watchful eye at any given moment well I think this is another way in which the story has been modernized right like if this is a 90s movie he's under lock and key right like he is not let out of the house or it's at least a bigger ordeal maybe but Natalie is sort of like like vulnerable in the 90s version.

40:43But I think the way that they're treating Zach in general, like one of the things I really do like about these first two episodes is the source of some of the marital tension between Anna and Tom is like their parenting styles, right? Like Tom is like, we need to be present with our son to help him get through everything he's getting through. And Anna's like, but I need to solve all his problems by snooping through his phone and like being a detective, basically. I need to know what I'm dealing with so I can fix whatever is happening with him. And like that difference of opinion is starting to wedge them apart.

41:11it's also clearly like part of what drives that crazy in the first place and i know a lot of teenagers hate their parents this kid hates his parents fuck my parents the scene that he has with max katie in the hospital bathroom is terrifying the way it's shot like yeah i think they're doing a great job of and we don't see all of it yes but like the cinematic claustrophobia of like max katie's reflections all around him the idea that this is a man who's very good at manipulating people witchcraft or not it has moments alone it's not witchcraft i have to say at the end of the day i'm fine if he thinks it's witchcraft but i i doubt very much given this story that it's actual effective i hope it's just like a whistle a dog whistle you know clicker something even hypnosis i feel like might fit the story better than witchcraft but yeah i zach is in a bad way for a bunch of different reasons we get some hints as to like the fact that he he has a he's had a hard time dealing with the fallout of his own actions uh as far as what he did with sophia blames himself hits himself like clearly there's a lot of shame we'll not leave this poor girl alone like wants to and i think this is another thing these first two episodes do really well set up all of the kind of different forms of stalking that are happening right sometimes it's natalie walking down the street and a podcaster is hounding her sometimes it is max katie out in the yard don't do that podcasters we would never sometimes there's a cougar in the backyard sometimes it's zach who i think genuinely means well but wants to go to this girl's house in the middle of the night to apologize it's like absolutely not and she's like no thank you she is not interested i think in addition i love that connective tissue you drew between the stalking i think also there's this idea of like are there mistakes you can fix yes you know and this wouldn't and at least like there's some things you just can't fix right uh last but not This might be in the drugs and or witchcraft thing.

42:58The seeing Adam Cady, seeing the ghost of the AI slop of the teenage version of Max Cady's dead son. I really hope this pays off in a way that we will find satisfying, but I kind of doubt it. I am suspicious of this plot line. Yeah. Can I ask you a question, though, on the catfishing front? Please. I need your help. I am not a woman, nor am I a murderer pretending to be a woman on the Internet. Yes. I need you. Life is long. I can't say I understand the series of emojis that exist in some of these flirtatious messages. And I would like for you to help me decipher them. This is like adolescence all over again.

43:36When there was like all this code in adolescence, you're going to ask me as if I like. We're just trying. A woman of an advanced age is going to be able to decipher these emojis. We're tilting at windmills and sometimes they exist over text. This is the text. This is the text that Zach was sent by Angel X, whoever he or she may be. Not a game, not a trick, just a girl who wants how your voice sounds like and wants it closer. The series of emojis is wilting flower, black heart, flame. I didn't even know there was a wilting flower emoji. What does that mean? What does wilting flower emoji mean? Heartbreak, emotional pain, or death of romance.

44:20Maybe love really is dead. Black heart, wilting flower, very like I'm sad. Sure. You know, won't you talk to me? I'm so sad. I get that. That part makes sense. Look, I mean. Okay. They're just kids in love or a kid and an adult man in love. I did laugh at. Or a kid and adult man trying to seduce him. Yes. To get back at his mother who he might've fucked at one point and sent him to jail. Tale as old as time. Tale as old as time. The text that Zach sent back at one point of you're not just a girl anymore. You're a storm system. Then let me flood you. Yeah, exactly. Let me flood you. that's wave black heart wave we get wave black heart wave that's self-explanatory it was wilted flower that really uh you know well uh think of a baby carrot at gmail.com yeah if you have some other more advanced uh analysis the emoji breakdown in adolescence just really uh okay well on the storm front we've got so much storm metaphor storm metaphoring happening in these episodes I have to think that one of the trees that is being complained about in episode one will fall, right?

45:26I've got a few Chekhovs on the list but that's definitely one of them It's gotta be You know what I mean? Tom Bowden's inability to get chores done around the house seems like they're gonna come I mean, is that, yeah is it just gonna crash into the entire house? Or maybe just into the den that's half outside anyway? I don't know if you wanna tag yourself anywhere in these episodes but that one is me, unfortunately The like, I mean to do this chore, but it goes undone. Did you call the people? Sure. Yeah, I'll get right on that. I'm definitely going to do that tomorrow when I don't have five podcasts.

45:56I feel like I'm more of the like, in terms of the differing styles between Tom and Anna Bowden. Yes. Storm's a brewing. She's like, let's move this party onto the sun porch. And Tom's like, it'll be fine. I'm Anna. I'm like, why wait to find out? Why risk it? When we can move everything you've grilled onto the sun porch. Better safe than soaked. Yeah. Okay. Natalie Bowden. Queer? Question mark. Seems to be. Do her parents know? It seems like her friend doesn't know. Seems like her granddad knows. Yeah. At least he has an inkling. I think her friend does know. You think so? It'd be weird if we kissed because I don't think of you that way.

46:41I think I believe that part is true. Yeah. But does the friend know that Natalie does think of her friend that way? I mean, Natalie's not very subtle. I think it's not that. In the down bad encyclopedia, can you blow smoke into my mouth? Point blank is pretty far up the list in terms of examples. It's a real flood me sort of moment. All right. Max Cady's biological daughter, question mark. Maybe. Megan Rapinoe shoes. I don't have much else for her. I actually really like Lily Coleus is the actress playing Natalie. I really like what she's bringing to this part so far. I think there is a like there is a warmth.

47:18There's a curiosity. There's like big older sister energy. And I think the like combination of like son you don't understand and daughter you take for granted can set us up to do a lot with this family structure. Sure. Anna being like so great. We never have to worry about you. Exactly. You're always perfect. It's like. Somebody's got to fish the skunks out of the pool, unfortunately. And she is the one who does it. I will say in terms of like check off something, one of the inelegant things in these episodes, her taking a full open container to walk down the street. I was like, that's unhinged behavior.

47:51Why is she doing that? And it's simply so that she can throw it at a scummy podcaster. As you should. Yeah. Maybe you should always walk around with an open container just in case a scummy podcaster comes calling. Other mysteries. Green Hood Mask Lady, seen by both Anna and Max. What's going on with her? She could be anyone. I don't think we have any grounds to even guess who she might be yet. Do you feel any inkling as far as what that character might represent or where they might intersect with these people's lives? I mean, she's a real person since both Anna and Max saw her, right? She was in the hospital bumping into Anna.

48:26And then it was like on the street or something where she ran into Max. So it was kind of like lurking around him. Yeah. That hair could be a wig. Yes. And then the mask covers the face, hood covering a lot of things. The green hooded jacket I think is quite tasteful. Yeah. It's a nice look. I like the look. His dead wife. You think his... So who was found in the swamp? I don't know. So we do get acknowledgement that the wife's body was like... Now we're on stolen land. Maybe so. the wife's body was left in like a bog or a swamp and was like chewed up by gators basically perhaps beyond recognition but then how would they even know that it was supposed to be Max Katie's wife in the first place I don't know dental records something like that so they swapped out the teeth who's they I don't know this must go all the way to the top yeah but I don't know what the top of what here's an idea what if Max Katie's wife pregnant and maybe Adam like actually exists somewhere because like maybe she's like I don't want to raise my kid with this dude.

49:30You think she faked her own death? And frames him or something. Yeah. So we potentially have a man who went to prison for killing his wife who he did not kill. Yeah. And a mistress who's claiming credit for that kill even though she also did not kill her. That woman escapes, gave birth to an actual child who may or may not be on TikTok posting AI slot videos of himself. They're now infiltrating the psyche of a whole another family. The sister of which may actually be Max Katie's biological time. We have 10 episodes to film. Oh my God. Don't take anything for granted. I don't. I don't. limited series.

50:07I really don't. This is ultimately going to be the struggle of the show, I think is. Who else could she be? I don't know. There's no other like woman around, you know what I mean? Like there's no one else. The mistress, I thought of. Couldn't she be the like Tom's potential mistress? Maybe, but why is she masking her face like that. I don't know. She has to mask her face because the two people who have bumped into her would recognize her. Yes. That's why she has to be masked. Well, it makes sense that the person that Tom... And the long blonde hair is like a real throw off for like someone with like, you know, dark hair.

50:42That is true. Which is what his wife looks like. I really have no clue. I am terrified now that all of these threads are linking together and potentially this way. This is a dizzying amount of potential mystery. It's so much. And I really think maybe they should have done six episodes, but we'll see what happens. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Buying something for dad usually goes the same way every year. Guessing, second guessing, ending up with something that collects dust on a shelf. Here's a better idea. WeatherTech. It's the kind of gift he'll actually use. WeatherTech offers unmatched vehicle protection from floor liners and seat protectors to the cup phone and cargo liner.

51:17And no, a gift card isn't a cop out. It's just practical like WeatherTech. Skip the guesswork this year. Visit weathertech.com to get your Father's Day gift today. One other thing. And, you know, we talk about plenty of other things, but one other sort of logistical thing I want to talk about. If you go to does the dog die dot com, Cape Fear is is a real does the dog die dot com. Yeah. This family doesn't have a dog. No, it is a cat. And Max Katie is a dog lover. He's got a dog. He's got a dog. He's just out here like having a good time adopting dogs. Oh, yeah. Making bilingual dick jokes. I loved that scene where he's just like screwing this guy over and taking his dog as his own.

51:55I thought that was great. and then I was like oh he's not gonna kill a dog but then I rewashed episode one I was like uh oh there's a cat there's a cat Mr. Peanut Butter I believe is his name Mr. Peanut Butter Joe is cooked there's no way that cat survives this season given that this guy wrote on Hannibal perhaps literally yeah who's to say so I'm on peanut butter watch honestly doesthecatdie.com I'm worried about it alright anything else that we haven't talked about that we need to get into honestly there's still somehow a lot of stuff in this show yeah there is Um, yeah, we don't have certainty on what happened exactly with Byron and his mom.

52:30Oh, but I feel for sure that Max Cady got him, like, drugged or, you know, on, like, witch drugs or something like that. Like, I think it's possible that his mom did kill him and then died. Sure. But, like, in terms of he went out and got drunk and took a lot of drugs. You think Max Cady nudged the situation along? Yeah, he's a nudger. and that's I think one area where all of this gray area that Max Katie is living in like really potentially works because we get this information like Byron is like kind of skittish around crowds and so the idea that he wouldn't want to go to this big gala or that it might spark some like real angst for him or strain with his relationship with his mom plausible but yeah the fact that he is kind of like nudging things along and I think this exists too in just his language and the way this character is written right now where it is it is so much uh oh i i didn't mean that literally about seeing my dead wife and child but also i did mean that other part literally about the fingers and toes yeah it's like he's having it both ways did mean that about his wife and his child apparently yeah everything is a simple everything is literal everything's a storm it really is everything's a wilted flower emoji anything else um you know how many flashbacks do you have tolerance for because listen we get this like black and white opener which is a first prison flashback and inside the prison flashback there's a colored flashback to max katie's dead wife who's maybe not dead yeah and the ultrasound um can i ask you a question about the prison flashback oh please is there any thought in your mind that anna and tom would be so ghoulish as to be like behind a hit on max katie in prison i don't think so seems beyond what they're capable of no if anna's like let's tie these loose ends i don't want anyone to ever know that I had sex with him or that he's the biological father of my child.

54:16You know? That's possible. What a web we weave. But if she had sex with Max Cady, like when she was representing him, and she was not sober at the time, which drugs are otherwise? That's... Are we going to get a flashback to 17 years ago, Max and Anna and their affair? Yes. Okay. We're doing like a CGI. No, I don't... No, no, sorry. I'm walking that back. I don't think we're getting the actual flashback. I think we'll just get expository scenes where they talk about it. Okay. We're going to get Tom childhood flashbacks? I think we'll get more of that. The He-Man poster sort of situation? Yes. Whatever is in that room.

54:53Anna and her dad flashbacks? I don't know if we'll get that one literally. Okay. But clearly he's going to be back around at some point. I feel like we're just getting as many flashbacks as we can to fill the 10 episodes of this show. So do you think we will get more flashbacks or in Cape Fear tradition, one of Anna or Tom walking out onto their porch and looking out into the darkness holding a weapon of some kind. They have to do that. I mean, they've already done it like five times. It is cape fear required. But how many times is the question? Just shoot it into the dark. Just shoot the gun into the, empty the clip into the darkness.

55:28It's the only way to be safe. All right, anything else you want to talk about? Joe, I have a couple quick heading things before we get out of here. Tom has this line at the very beginning of episode one. She split herself into two different people. It's a 14 hour procedure, but if you survive it, you get a lot done. Is that a severance joke? I hope so. On Apple? It feels too coincidental. I hope so. Feels like it has to be. He also says that skunks are dumb. Is that true? Tough for the skunk community. Is that true? I did a lot of research on this. It does not seem to be true. Pigeon hater Rob Mahoney?

56:02Skunk lover? Skunks seem like better members of the community, to be honest. I'd take a skunk over a possum. I'll tell you that much right now. I don't have a problem with that possum. I think don't fire... You know what? don't fire nail guns at the possums they didn't do anything to you don't fire the nail gun in general kelly that's a checkoff's nail gun that you think that's gonna be wielded yeah that nail is coming back i hope i hope against the right person i don't know who that is a stray nail gun in the house yeah it's it's pretty gnarly already uh i did find a lot of skunk materials out there insisting that they are quite intelligent and quite smart that said most of the sources seem like pet skunk propaganda uh so i don't know if that's true or not uh but a quick shout out before we get out of here Paul Schneider of Paul Parks and Rec fame notorious Mark Brandanowicz I want to say written off the show the problem with all of season one appears very briefly as a cop I hope we see him again really yeah that's him in the hospital one of the guys who's interrogating Max Katie I love Paul Schneider I completely missed him I think you're beard blind right now I guess a little facial hair and just like can't even see these guys anymore I miss Schneider entirely well he'll come back I'm sure he will probably die would be my guess If you are a law enforcement official or anyone around this family, I fear your life is in danger.

57:15Watch out. Follow-up question. Last question. Do you think Savannah Coffee Roasters got some money for the product placement inside of this episode? They should have paid some money for the product placement in this episode. I've just had my toe cut off. All I want is a fresh hot cup black Savannah Coffee Roasters. It was way too specific. I mean, here's the question. Do you want that kind of publicity if you're Savannah Coffee Roasters? I don't want Zach as my spokesman. No. Toeless Zach? Also, I think Tom's wearing like a local ice cream shop shirt at one point. So I think they're trying to be like, we're really in Savannah.

57:55But I just thought that was a really weird line. I did look up the reviews for Savannah Coffee Roasters. I got to say the service didn't seem great over there. But it was consistently like, you know what? The coffee's pretty good. But these people did not pay attention to me. What is wrong with coffee shops today? That's why Tom's brewing at home. They're not going. I thought he was, when he said I would like a black hot cup of Savannah. I was like, are they door dashing this? What do they do? You know, one of them was going to pop out and go get it. No, the service is bad. You got to brew at home.

58:20Got to buy the beans. Savannah coffee roasters. All right. Savannah coffee roasters. You want to send us some beans? We'll take a sample. Sure. Why not? You want to hit them with that email one more time? Yeah. That email is think of a baby carrot at gmail.com. Or if you prefer prestige TV at Spotify.com. Yeah. The inbox is always open. Yes. We are wrapping up Widow's Bay. There's a couple more episodes of Widow's Bay left. And we're, you know, sort of figuring it out as we go. We're looking around. We're eyeing the landscape. But we really would like to hear from you whether or not you're all in on Cape Fear and you would like us to cover Cape Fear in the way that we cover shows.

58:57Just straight up, are you watching it? Like, we have no idea what the imprint of this show will be. Presumed Innocent feels like a bellwether. But, you know, these things can be lightning in a bottle or Savannah storms in a whatever. I will say if people ask me, should I watch Cape Fear? Here's what I will say. I'd watch Javier Bardem do almost anything. He's so good in this. He's incredibly good. We haven't. So stupid. We haven't talked about that yet. Like, guess what? He's fantastic. He's really. I also love Amy Adams in like a very Southern murdery limited series. I'm a big fan of that. Patrick Wilson.

59:24I'm always a huge fan of. I think he has like he's got such like Captain America, dripped and handsome, dipped and handsome, good looks that like I think he gets underestimated. And I just think he's incredibly good. And I'm really excited. I love his like, you know, dad making inappropriate jokes when he's like, I could pop it on ice, pop that toe back on for you know what I mean? Like, I just love what he's doing with Tom so far. I love Tom's balance of like, we're told he's like the head of his class in law school, like top of his class. But also he has that kind of like dad low EQ, like I'm going to blurt out all of my son's psychological problems in the middle of this hospital and just tell everyone all about it.

1:00:03Like poor situational awareness. His dad is like, did you see adolescence?

1:00:10Also, look, I would say we are, of the people of The Ringer, maybe co-counselors in the defense of Amy Adams. We have been on the forefront. It's true. I'm not going to pretend that everything she's in, that she's like a can't miss or a never misses sort of actor. But her highs are exceptional. They're so good. Remains to be seen if this is going to be that. I do love the premise of her in this story. I will say both of their southern accents are like real spotty in these first two episodes sometimes they're using them sometimes they're not to be honest I don't even care I'm having a fun time here's what I kind of love Javier Bardem is doing a like I was raised in Spain until I was 13 and then I learned English traumatically in North Carolina right that's his accent he's got like there's something sort of dialed in something countrified about the way that he's speaking English we should say dodgy accents are a proud tradition at Cape Fear because what the fuck is De Niro doing.

1:01:03It's very true. In his Oscar nominated role. I'm gonna call it homage. Okay. Pastiche of something. Yeah, so I would say if people were like, should I watch this show? I would say yeah. Yeah. Watch this show. Are we all gonna regret that around episode seven? Possibly. Stringing up the story is gonna be a challenge. I look forward to seeing how they handle it. I would say this is one though where if you are very skittish about being followed, stalking, like, I think this would be a really hard watch. There are a lot of people were just like creeping up on each other for absolutely no reason in this show.

1:01:35Sure. Other than that, I think it's well enough made and I am intrigued. Okay. What's a normal amount to be worried about stalking versus an abnormal amount to be worried about stalking? I don't know where to draw those lines. Is that for me to say? Thanks everyone who worked on this show. Jacob Cornett is here as always. Holding it down. Cameron Dinwiddie is, you know, doing the edit on this podcast. shout out to our team who are in Sweden as we speak living it up and we'll be back with Widows Bay and perhaps more of the show oh and last but not least Rob Perlman's in this show we don't know who he's playing yet somewhere Patrick Fishler who's always really fun is in this show we don't know who he's playing yet I hope like an even scummier podcaster would be a fun role for Patrick Fishler a whole podcaster ecosystem are we are we doing okay we keep saying goodbye and coming back but are we doing a a retrial of Max Cady because he's provisionally released.

1:02:34Yes. And they haven't, they're gonna, there's some sort of trial that he has to do. Oh, is there? That's sort of what I got from CCH Pounder's character Noah when Anna's like, but we're not even taking his case. And she's like. I thought she's saying the case is done, he's already out. Well, she's like I thought she was saying he's provisionally released. I believe she literally said provisionally released. So I think there is like something that has to come. Is it a court case? Is it a something else? You know, just paperwork has to be filed. I don't know what that case, you know, is, but. Here's one other loose end we didn't talk about too.

1:03:11Is this actually what Presumed Innocent Season 2 is? Wow, full time. Honestly, they would kind of fit of a world. I don't know how like. Rachel Brosnahan defending Javier Bardem. Especially if Season 2 is in Chicago. I don't know how we get to Savannah or vice versa. But one thing I'm still wondering about is like, Like we are told that Max Cady is basically urged by Anna to take this plea deal, right? For what he believes is like a 20 year sentence. To save his life. To save his life, a 20 year sentence. Yeah. Then something happens. And it sounds like the judge, based on his telling, unilaterally decides that this is a life sentence.

1:03:45I don't know if that's an exaggeration or maybe I'm misconstruing what he's saying. Oh, I might have missed a detail there. What we know for a fact is he was given a life sentence. You don't plea for a life sentence in the vast majority of cases, I guess, unless the death penalty is on the line. So what even happened with the plea deal? I don't know. Doesn't seem great legally. No. OK, I think we did it. I think so, too. I think we made a podcast. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Rob. We'll see you soon. Bye.

1:04:37your life, and your windows. Shop up to 40 % off with minimum purchase and a free professional measure right now at blinds.com. Plus, pay at your own pace starting at 0 % APR with Affirm. Terms apply. Athletic Brewing Company crafts award-winning non-alcoholic beers for those who want to be part of every round. With over 185 flavor awards, they're exceptional NA beers that fit your lifestyle and any social occasion. Summer's full of good times and athletic fits right in. Go to athleticbrewing.com to have brews delivered to your door or find them at a bar, restaurant, or store near you. Near Beer.

1:05:14Athletic Brewing Company. Fit for all times.