‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 3: Little Miss Legit

22:00Rob:But I'll be curious to see how people react to it. But I actually really liked that 10-minute intro section. Rue's stuff remains incredibly compelling to me. It's just Cassie and Nate is not interesting to me. So Cassie and Nate's wedding is not going to be, especially when I have to spend, once again, so much time watching Sydney Sweeney, like, cry hysterically. They were really playing the hits. You know, just like a histrionic sort of reaction. She's screaming. She's, like, firing a champagne cork at his eyeball, and no one's really paying that much attention. It's very odd. The whole dance sequence, which I think was supposed to be high comedy, would just really just, at the end of the day, annoyed me.

22:37Not just high comedy, but that felt like one of the moments where, they're reaching for the meme. Like specifically Sidney Sweeney, like cry twerking. It's like they know what they're doing and they're trying to interact with the reputation of the show. And honestly, I find nothing more off-putting in terms of modern television than when you can feel them reaching for like the quote card or the gif or whatever, that kind of like grabbable moment that's supposed to feel that way. And it just, it feels a little, a little gross.

23:03Rob:Only fame-thirsty podcasters are allowed to do that. I thought Jacob Elordi's comedy blood gurgling performance was quite good. Everything Sidney Sweeney was actually quite annoying to me. But really, but him in the background, like gurgling blood. And I guess it's the contrast, of course, is like the source of the comedy. But him being like pulled down their incredibly tacky stairs onto their incredibly tacky carpet after their incredibly tacky, very expensive wedding. And I I laughed at that and when the bird died. I did think it was funny. I think the entire sequence, I want to give Sydney Sweeney some credit, specifically that Cassie like wailing, I'm bleeding as Nate gets his face bashed in.

23:44I did enjoy. I also enjoyed her commiserating. Yeah, he never listens. That was good. That got a huge laugh for me. Yeah.

23:50Rob:He never listens was really, really good. Just bringing people together. More of Naz and Cassie sort of being like, Nate, what a piece of shit, you know? Yeah. I'm glad that he got his signature move turned on him. You know, we've seen Nate do the like lurk and wait in an armchair for somebody many, many times on Euphoria. Got his comeuppance. Couldn't have happened to a worse guy. Yeah. Hate that guy. Love to see him. You know? All right. Let's go a bit more in order. But that's sort of like the big picture. You and I, this was if they were aiming for a sort of like red wedding, Connor's wedding-esque HBO event moment.

24:24Rob:That's not quite what we got here. I would say especially because this is one of the few signature events I would imagine in which it actually makes sense to have all these people in one place. I mean, for that, you know, they accomplished. It doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense to me why Maddie was invited. That was explained to us. Yeah. It doesn't really make sense to me why Rue was invited. Rue was invited so that Jules can be invited so that Rue can then leave. Yeah. And then Jules can be there and talk to Nate and to Cal. That's really it. Okay. Baby being there, just an extra joy for all of us.

24:54Rob:Okay. Plus Nate's dumb brother. I did enjoy all, we'll get into it, but I appreciated all the callbacks. I always, whenever he's in an episode, I always write down Josh Myers. You know, Seth Meyers' brother? Like, he's the real Josh Myers to Nate's Seth Meyers. And I like Josh Myers, but like, yeah, he's a real dummy. Aaron, right? Aaron, yeah. Aaron, yeah. Okay, let's go back to the Jules intro. So a lot of fans, you know, I was poking around the Reddit boards this week and a lot of fans have been worried about what they call the sort of catification of Jules this season, given that she was absent from episode one and barely, like just barely in episode two.

25:30Rob:So here she gets 10 minutes dedicated to her entirely. We've talked about the visuals before on Euphoria, about them sourcing special Kodak film. I thought this was like, there was something particularly, absolutely, exquisitely gorgeous about the way this sequence was shot. I think very, you know, all of it, a lot of like deep, dark, bluish blacks with, you know, the pops of like red lips on Hunter Schaefer. Or I think very specifically when she meets her sugar daddy, Ellis, when they're in that red booth. And it's just the way they're shot from sort of above is just like extremely artistically beautiful.

26:08Rob:And then we get this sort of cellophane, boxing Helena, very creepy move here at the end of this section. I'm really curious how people are going to react to that, especially in a season where people are having a lot of conversations about the commodification of women and bodies and stuff like that. Of course. You know, this is, of course, a very intentionally engaging with that. Ellis is supposed to be a kind of creepy dude. I mean, it's Sam from True Blood, and I'm a fan. I am too. But he has a darkness to him that I don't even think on True Blood he ever really got to fully play. No, Sam was like a pretty good guy on True Blood, relatively.

26:45I don't think he's aged a day. No. He looks great. He could break up a swampy bar fight right now.

26:50Rob:He looks great. Have we ever talked about Trouba? I don't think so. You should. We stay away from fairy-related conversations generally. But the casting call that went out for this character, Ellis, it said a white or Asian man with some, quote, coldness to him. So this is like we're supposed to be sort of chilled by this person. What do you make about, you know, we had already sort of established that Jules was in this dynamic We get the explanation of how that happened. Yes. And an introduction of this character, Atlas. What did you think of all of this? I think as far as Jules goes, like the part of this that I really enjoyed was seeing her kind of enter into this world and understand how it works.

27:30And specifically the idea that rings true for me is that this would be easy for someone like Jules, who just does have a power over a lot of other people, men and women alike. Power over me. I mean, all of us, frankly. And the fact that once she gets going, she like knows how easy it is for her.

27:47Rob:She's like, oh, I'm going to clean up. I'm going to absolutely clean house. And you can see how a person like that would go from art student trying to subsidize their education to like, this is just kind of my job now. And I'm going to kind of buy art supplies with it and maybe still be an artist. But like, this is a way of life. Are you worried about, I was like all in. I was like, yeah, take these dumb fucks money. And then she's like calling her folks. When it was just the finance bros and the movie producers and the candlestick makers. The stocking liquors. But when she's like, when she's dropping out of art school and then there's a line, it's like that she didn't really worry about making it as an artist anymore.

28:23Rob:And so then that just makes me worried that the easy money of this arrangement or becoming an artistic object rather than an artist creator, that seems, you know, I'm pro sex work and I'm pro, you know, Jules taking money, like separating idiots from their money. But if it means she's losing sight of this thing, this passion of hers, that worries me. Of course. And specifically with this man who not only has a coldness to him, I do think there's something interesting and fertile potentially about pairing Jules with a plastic surgeon. A lot of interesting conversations about identity that can be explored through something like that.

29:03But really, for me, it's about that coldness. And it's about this idea that you get into with him of like the combination of the anything can be improved plastic surgeon mentality, plus the like, I might just keep you forever sentiment that he expresses in this episode that is, it's just on a different level than the nylon licking, right? Like there's an indulgence of fetish that's happening all throughout the sequence. But for him, it is something that is more possessive, that is more controlling, that is more cellophane wrapped. Like you are a prize that I'm going to put here like a statue.

29:34Rob:When we see you are an object. Exactly. Right. And when we see Jules come home from the wedding and it's clear, I think, right, it's clear that he's there. And so she sort of gets herself ready. You know, she just like sort of slips into, like always on the clock, right? Like whenever he decides to leave his family for his proclivities, she's ready to go. I don't love that for Jules personally. I don't love it either, especially because of like, if it is that kind of possessiveness and that kind of controlling, what comes with it? What are the costs of these things? If he's trying to get what he's paying for, so to speak.

30:06Rob:I do want to call it a bit of writing that, you know, sometimes there's writing on the show and you're like, what? I think I know exactly what it is. Is it a conversation with Vivian? No. Okay, I have one too then. Please, please. Well, no, tell me your name. I want to hear yours first, Jo. The trick with Zendaya is Zendaya is rude and you can say almost anything in a voiceover and you're like, sounds great. Yep. Windows of time when anyone could strike it rich. Gold rush, prohibition, cryptocurrency. It's all about timing. What does that mean, Sam? It means it's all about timing. She said it.

30:38Rob:Okay, but sex work is like till as old as time. So what is like, what is selling pickaxes in the gold rush about being a sugar baby? Aren't we told our oldest profession? Yeah, exactly. It's a great call. I don't know what about this moment, especially, you know, we get this larger conversation with Alamo about how like processes become so big that they get legalized. I mean, sugar babying and daddying is certainly a gray area for all this. But I can't say this is the gold rush time for being a sugar baby. This kind of thing's been happening for a long time. That's just an evergreen profession.

31:13Well, let me try to match, if not one-up you, with some writing. As Jules and her roommate Vivian are talking about sugar babying and all that entails, this is a line from Vivian. The good thing about rich people is they actually have something to lose. All right? We're there? No. Can't stop. The answer, money. Just in case you didn't know what they have to lose, Vivian and Jules are here to tell you thanks to Sam Levinson.

31:38Rob:One more piece of writing I want to call out. When Ellis says, I slice women open for a living, there's very little that makes me uncomfortable. Felt a little author insert to me. A little Sam moment, I think. Touche. All right. Anything else you want to say about this Jules intro? Let's keep it moving. Other than, I mean, we just need so much more Jules even still. And I share your frustration that for all of the buildup over the first two episodes, this was not so much more Jules than even what we got. I was glad for those 10 minutes. I thought the Cal scene was good. I thought the Nate scene was also good, but you know.

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34:51Rob:Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. Thoughts? Rue is now arms dealing, as you mentioned. I don't think we mentioned it last week, but I want to make sure, of course, to mention that Rosalia is here stripping in a neck brace. A bejeweled neck brace. A bejeweled neck brace. How do you feel about this? A wonderful scene. I also want to know, you know, you read the casting call for Ellis earlier. I would love to hear the casting call for like mouth-breathing dude who's gawking during her dance. Okay, I don't have that one. I have them for a few people, but I don't have them for the mouth-breathing guy.

35:22I just want to know what they were looking for.

35:23Rob:Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, and then we get, as you mentioned, this is as close to sort of the slideshow, charismatic Rue business that we get. Under a trench coat, or maybe for the missus' sundress. The mention of, if it's any consolation, the majority of weapons I was selling were headed to Mexico, et cetera, et cetera. And then we get the, at least Alamo appreciated me, and then into the sort of legitimacy conversation. Anything you want to say about this you haven't already? Just that, I mean, Rue as a character, if we're saying that that character is taking jumps in some ways that we don't necessarily recognize, one of the things I deeply do recognize is like the devil may care part of Rue that's just kind of like floating through life.

36:02Fuck it. This is, I guess it'll work out or maybe it won't and we're just going to kind of keep moving. That version of Rue, I completely believe would go to her boss and say, I know you are a drug selling club operating brothel running, drugs, arms dealing, sex trafficking guy.

36:19Rob:Feeding people to pigs possibly. Who's to say? Yeah. But I'm looking to get legit at some point. I do believe that she would think that that's an okay and smart thing to say. In this sequence, post-Rosalia, pre-arms dealing, we do get a shot, and maybe we've seen it before, of a fairly sizable snake. And I would just like to add it to the Chekhov's list. Add it to the Chekhov's list. Come on. Check it off the Chekhov's list. Don't show me a yellow boa. If it's at minimum going to be draped around somebody's shoulders. It doesn't have to commit any violent acts. So you want like a spearsification of this boa, right?

36:52Rob:You want it in a dance. I want it to choke someone during the chaos of a heist. That's what I would like to see from this boa. I mean, history tells us the aquarium tank gets busted open. The snake gets loosed. Just when you forget about it, it crawls up and strangles somebody to death. Who's dying by boa? Marshawn Lynch, unfortunately, I think is going to get boa'd. Really tough. Outside of Cassie being like, he never listens. Here's one of my favorite lines in the episode. When Alamo goes, you know history, and Rue says, not particularly. I want to start doing that when people are like do you know mathematics I'll be like not particularly not really again this reads as very Tarantino light this sort of idea light light light racketeering turning into legitimacy of the lotto system yeah people say it funds the educational system from Bishop Bishop stealth really like Bishop killer in this show just like great stuff and then here we get a pig busting the pig is back busting into the club a lot of pissing just like more pig piss than I care for on a Sunday evening, personally.

37:55Rob:Which is no, zero. I was going to say, what's the normal amount? It's zero. Okay. I'm glad you clarified. On this show, you have to clarify. It's no pig piss. Okay, good. Okay, that's my preference. So then Alamo asks Rue what Laurie cares about the most. Yeah. And then we get this cut to Laurie with her parrot paladin. And she said, who's my perfect little baby guy? And here's my question, Rob. If you were a character on Euphoria and the camera were to rudely cut to you. Oh, wow. To reveal you caught, you know, like babying your dog. Like what would be the most embarrassing thing that the camera could catch you sort of like showing a vulnerability about?

38:36Rob:Just say it into a microphone in front of some cameras. I mean, not to know but you, but I don't baby my dog that much. I like to have adult conversations with my dog as if she was a human being who could understand complete sentences. What sort of topics are part of the discourse that you have with your dog who wears sweaters sometimes? No sweaters. Bandanas. Crucial distinction. I mean, we're just talking about current events, you know? Like, you know, the state of the Iran negotiations. Yeah, the Strait of Hormuz. Absolutely. Is it open? Is it not? Rising gas prices. You know, like the implications for a dog.

39:05You know, like, I'm sorry, we just can't go to the dog park. It's literally too expensive now.

39:09Rob:What does Margot think about the Strait? You don't even want to know. Very controversial stances. Jules ends up at the wedding because Rue invites her right that all makes sense to me that part makes sense to me yes Jules' reluctance to go makes sense to me Jules saying I haven't seen any of these people since high school makes sense to me that should be true for more of the people on the show than it is what I did like is the pan across the bathtub I don't know if you freeze frame Mahoney I don't know if you took note I did not so Jules is one of those like incredibly great wooden sort of plank things on the bath as you do I believe what I saw was ashtray cigarette okay lines of coke yep okay waterproof sex toy on the on the wooden thing and then one just like sort of lingering in the bottom of the bathtub as well so like multiple toys lines of coke which either they were doing together or Jules has decided she has no problem doing in front of Rue someone who she is concerned whether or not is clean and then the cigarette I mean this is the trifecta.

40:15Rob:This is you're living your best life, right? This is modern life. Are you disappointed that we pulled the trigger on the email already so we can't do like water-resistant dildo at Gmail.com or something like that? The possibilities are really endless once you incorporate water resistance. I think there were a lot of options in this episode email-wise, but Maddie came first. Anything else you want to say about this, Jules? This like, I'm your sugar daddy now, dress sexy, line for Rue or anything like that. I just continued to want Rue to be at the wedding with the other characters. And the most generous interpretation I can give the show is that Alamo's plan, if it needed to be executed at all, and it really didn't.

40:58I don't know why we're still doing the pig thing. I don't know why the pig thing now involves a parrot thing. It's all very convoluted. We are escalating. I don't really need that part of the show. But if you're going to do it, Lori does have a certain soft spot for Rue. And so the idea of bringing Rue along on this run, basically to distract Lori so you can drop a pill into Paladin's water. I don't know that she misses her that much.

41:19Rob:Should we kidnap her? Should we kidnap her? They go from should we kidnap her to should we profit share very quickly. Yep. My understanding and grasp of capitalism is loose at best, but I don't think that the jump happens quite so efficiently in my experience. You know capitalism? Not particularly. Definitely not particularly. Genuinely, of all the frustrations in this episode, Rue... Leaving, exiting the wedding. Rue getting a call basically from Zendaya's agent being like, you don't have to be at this wedding anymore. You don't have to post a Sam Levinson on the red carpet and you don't have to be You don't have to do it.

41:48Rob:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very frustrating. Okay. Maddie at the wedding. Was she even there? Maddie talked to Bebe and was glaired and like still takes up complete possession of Nate's mom's brain all the time. Uncalled for. Marsha. In the speech? Calm down. Jesus Christ. Like, it's been five years since Maddie's been in your house. Yeah. Calm the fuck down. All right. Maddie wearing scraps of green fabric. Not quite much. Looking incredible. Jewels, not much more. Not much. Jewels is in, like, a sort of artistic confection. Maddie is more dressed to kill. Yeah. There was this idea, you know, a lot of fans based on the trailers that they put together for this week's episode, et cetera, were like, oh, Maddie's going to show up at the wedding and just ruin it or do something that's really going to, you know, like enact her revenge on Cassie.

42:42Rob:Instead, she gets like quite emotional. Yeah. Shares sort of like an emotional look with Cassie and then goes home in an Uber kind of sad. Maddie's number one boy. And I don't know if I want to claim number one, but I'm like right up there, girl. I just want to say to Maddie, do not be upset about these losers. Why are you upset about these absolute losers? Nate and Cassie, Who gives a shit? Their wedding is so ugly and tacky. All that money for those flowers? Wow. In the CNN letter flower arrangement? Tacky ugly. At least it was volume. If you're going to pay 50 grand for florals, you're getting arches.

43:20You're getting the installation. You're getting the lined aisle. You're getting flower petals also lining the aisle. You're getting flower girls to then put petals on the petals.

43:27Rob:Petals on petals. It's a hat on a hat. The only thing I did like was the four-piece string quartet. That is much more tasteful than the rest of the wedding. Very classy. Everything else seemed like it sucked, I thought. It fit. I mean, shout out the Langham Hotel, which is where this was set. I love the Langham Hotel, but they tackied it up, I think. I think it fit Cassie's aesthetic pretty perfectly. Yeah. I know I just said I was most frustrated about Rue leaving this wedding. I got to up it and just rewind and erase that because I think I'm most frustrated by bringing Maddie to the wedding and not having her have literally any conversation with Cassie ornate individually or together.

44:03The meaningful glance is nice. I'm actually very open to the idea that she would come there and be oddly emotional more than she expected. That's an interesting character beat. The whole point of having her at the wedding is so that these people can be in a room and have a conversation after they have not in years. And there's so much unreconciled and there's so much like history between them. And she never even talks to Nate. I kind of believe from a person standpoint that you wouldn't want to run into your ex-boyfriend who cheated on you at their wedding. The whole situation is very uncomfortable, but this is not real life.

44:35And Maddie is not a real person. And I like, maybe it's just me wanting, I don't even need the histrionics. I don't need a big fight. Like I don't need a rehash, but I need to know like where these people are all these years later in relation to each other.

44:47Rob:You would rather that than Nate talk about an endangered flower for like five minutes. Fuck the flower, Joe. Fuck the flower. Say it with me. Fuck the flower. Did you see that when Jacob Elordi was on the Tonight Show last year for Frankenstein was asked to sort of like explain Euphoria season three in a couple words. And he said the name of the flower, the white, whatever it's called. He's like, it's all about that. And then there's just like, wait, hold on, I need to find it. There are these great Reddit posts that people wrote about what that means. White fritillary is the name of the flower.

45:20Rob:Here's a Reddit post I found of people reacting at that time on the Euphoria subreddit about what the meaning of this flower could be. Quote, these flowers can represent fragility, regret, and confronting what you've done. That fits Nate perfectly. His story seems like it will focus on him dealing with the consequences of his actions, sort of. In a way. And facing parts of himself he's avoided instead of relying on control and aggression. I wouldn't hold your breath for that. I mean, as someone who has just run wild with theories myself, I just love when people overanalyze incorrectly. And this person wrote a very beautiful post about the meaning of this particular flower.

45:56Rob:when in fact it's just an impediment to building his scammy little retirement community thing that he wants to build. Scamming does seem exhausting though. The amount of management that Nate has to do, like he's managing this neighbor who's invested with him. He's clearly managing Naz poorly. He's managing Cassie's feelings and vulnerabilities. Like he's just constantly having to put out fires in a way where I can see why he's dry heaving into a stall at the beginning of this episode. Pre-ceremony jitters. We've got Nate, but we've got Cassie. Yeah. Definitely wearing another Sydney Sweeney corset as part of her wedding dress.

46:29Rob:And then her team around her, which is her shitty neighbor, Heather, who does not seem to like Cassie at all and like tattles on Cassie at every single opportunity. So that's one of her bridesmaids. And then her literal sister, Lexi, who like has to do it. And then there's like a couple of like - I think there's one other bridesmaid. There's like a blonde girl, but like sad state of Cassie's, you know, friend group at this point. But don't worry, he picked you, Cassie, so it's fine. It's all good. Your life is justified. And then we have Suze. You think diarrhea is bad? Try getting into words.

47:05Ayo.

47:07Rob:A lot of you, Buck, I don't know if she's going to be in any other episodes this season, but she made a meal out of her opportunities here. And I just like, Suze is wearing a dynamite dress, this red sequin number, is dancing with the James Brown impersonator. That's a deep dip. I just, I had a great, Suze is having a great time at the wedding. I'm having a great time with Suze at the wedding. Thank God for her. Yeah. Thank God for her in all of these sequences. I mean, yeah, the dancing, the drinking, the telling Cassie about her own doomed marriage and the naivety of even thinking you can ever fully understand another human being as they are literally walking down the aisle.

47:43I also did love the some dreams do come true line as Cassie is getting into the stretch hummer limo with the man who definitely hates her and also has set her up for like a miserable wedding night in presumably few years.

47:55Rob:And Lexi's like, okay, on Lexi for a second. I'm not here to like virgin shame you, lose your virginity whenever you want to. But you're pro herpes. Did Lexi not go to college? She must have. Lexi would have cleaned up in college. But what kind of, I could like. Lexi would have cleaned up in Maude Apatow. Lexi would have cleaned a smart girl who looks like Maude Apatow in college with all of those college boys and or girls, whatever she prefers. But I think it's boys. I think it's boys. Then you're telling me she got through college a virgin. I don't think so. If you told me she went to an all girls, very liberal liberal arts school, I could see that.

48:35Rob:Oh, just a sea of lesbians and Lexi straight all alone. I don't know what happened, but it seems more elective for her. She seems she's exercising some restraint in a way that basically no one else on this show is. Okay. I mean, yeah, I'm anti herpes, but I'm just saying I, A lot strains credulity on euphoria and you're telling me that Lexi Howard, out of the shadow of her sister in college, didn't clean up. I think she did. I'm just very glad we're finally getting you on the record, Joe. I find you to be a little squirrely in your opinions on certain things, but Joanna Robinson, anti-pig urine, anti-herpes.

49:08Rob:You know, I stand firm. I'm happy to talk to your dog about this, if your dog would like my opinions on this. Yeah, Suze's little lecture to Cassie down the aisle. Never realizing it was the last happy moment I would share with your father. I looked so beautiful before I started looking like an anorexic witch. She's so fucking good. She's so good. I want to know how much Alana Yubak is improvising on this show. I think it's a lot, you know? She needs a co-writing credit. She's so funny. Because even if she didn't write it, she is selling this in a way that basically no one else on the show is.

49:40Can I list for you, Joe, some of the things I did like about the wedding? Because I know I've been a little harsh. The Sue stuff, absolutely.

49:46Rob:You love a nice sculpture. Well, I do love that bit of Cassie like fretting about the proportions of the ice sculpture. I do think Jacob Elordi's performance in the encounter with Nas specifically, there is like a quivering to him physically as he's trying to hold it all together and present this like very strong composed front that I think is really, really good stuff. I do think the return of some of the BBs and the Nate's brother is a nice touch. the perspective shot at the like altar from Cassie's POV looking up at Nate is very like, you understand the appeal of even this psycho guy or I guess formerly psycho guy, now sometimes psycho, but just getting his face beaten in mostly as a hunk of meat, if nothing else.

50:29You know, like you're really selling me on that moment. Also Nate in full cult leader mode, like really whipping votes as far as the fuck the flowers go. I think that sequence is very good and very funny. And overall, like, there's good stuff here. It just all felt kind of disjointed and uncanny in terms of how it all fit together.

50:45Rob:Tell me about your, seems like you had a negative reaction to the Cal and Jules conversation. It felt a little bit like, can you remind me what happened with us in season one? And also, what are you doing here in season three? And beyond that. Why are you talking to your son better than being alone? Yeah. You know, it's not every day you fuck one of your son's high school classmates and record it. Yeah. It's like, I don't need this. I don't think these people need this. That was one of the worst things that ever happened to either of them. So I don't know what else they have to talk about. I don't know that that's true, though.

51:17Rob:I think Euphoria is a very messy show. I mean, that's fair. And I think Jules, I don't think Jules left that encounter saying that's the worst thing that's ever happened to me. To clarify, I don't mean the encounter with Cal so much as the whole issue of the tape and the blackmail and everything that Nate made it about. And so then there's the follow-up of like, Like, okay, somehow Jules' tape did not make it in with the rest. There must have been someone looking out for me, looking over at Nate. And then the show decided to feed the, I'm sorry, unhinged Nate and Jules shippers that exist out there.

51:50Rob:I alerted, you were not aware that this was a vibrant and vocal member. A portion of the Euphoria fandom are the people who are hoping that Nate and Jules, those two crazy kids, will just work it out. On what grounds? You're asking me to defend a ship that I do not subscribe to? I'm just trying to understand. What is your understanding of like, is it just based off of the connection they seem to have when he was impersonating this guy on the app that they were talking to? Right, and when he says every word I said was true, you know, that there, I mean, the show has definitely fed it. There have been moments of if Nate allowed himself to be his true self, perhaps Jules would be the person that he would be attracted to.

52:29Rob:The echoes between Nate and Cal of like sort of a person who is repressed inside their sexuality and has to choose the most obvious Cassies of the world to have Cal say you're a success. Just look at your wife. You know, this sort of like picture perfect blonde buxom like whatever. And Jules is too different and interesting and compelling and queer and all these other things. Outside the lines of that image. He can't allow himself to be like his dad, to be like that. But there is a part of him that wants a Jules. And I think all of that is there. Agreed. And I think all of that is interesting.

53:06Rob:Nate is just such a piece of shit that I don't want him anywhere near Jules. Like, I want him, I want everyone to be their true authentic selves. But part of his true authentic self might be more queer than he allows himself to be. But part of it is also being an absolute psychopath. And I don't want a psychopath near Jules. So that's how I feel. Nor do I. I think the portrait you've drawn helps me understand the case a little bit better, just because from various fandoms and ships across all of fiction, the idea of like, this guy is a piece of shit, but he's not a piece of shit to me. Like I could be the one who he's not a piece of shit to.

53:40Rob:Yeah. Obviously is very compelling. I'm not tagging you in this particular picture, but I'm just, I'm not, I'm not saying I'm just saying, but if you are one of these people, if you are one of these people who's a part of this particular ship, I am worried about you. I am very concerned about you engaging in that kind of thinking with like, this is not a normal store brand dangerous dude. Like, he's not like high school level bad. Yeah. He is a sociopath. I say there's no wrong way to be a fan, but your neighborhood fame thirsty idiot podcasters are here to tell you we think this is a bad one and we don't like it.

54:15We're here for you. And if look, if there's an argument to the contrary, if you have seen the light in Nate Jacobs and you would like to tell us about it.

54:21Rob:Maddie's number one boy at gmail.com. I want to hear the case genuinely. The show's definitely feeding it in this encounter that they have outside of the wedding here. They share a cigarette. They do. They pass the cigarette back and forth. Now, Michael B. Jordan and Michael B. Jordan pass the cigarette back and forth in Sinners. So this isn't 100 % guaranteed that they were in the same place. You know that that ship exists out there, too. People are wanting everything. The smoke and stack. Smoke X stack. I guarantee you it's a thing. I just want to promise you that I'm pretty sure that Hunter Schaefer and Jacob Lorty were in the same space inside of this scene is my point.

54:54Rob:You say that. It could have been Hunter Schaefer and Andy Serkis. Like, we don't know. That's what I'm saying. But they're passing a cigarette back and forth, and we get a sort of like, you love who you love. I mean, this is definitely feeding that. Do you think we get any other Jules and Nate interaction the rest of the season, or was that the crumb for the Nate and Jules shippers and go with God? That's the last you'll get. I'm sorry to say to those shippers, I think this is the crumb. I agree. I don't know how these two people would end up in the same room again. I don't know how, frankly, Nate is making it out of the season alive, honestly.

55:26He's not in a good space. I want to talk about that. But before we get out of all the wedding stuff, to rewind to Cal for a second, I did. Maybe my biggest laugh of the episode is Cal talking about being a registered sex offender as the modern day Scarlet Letter. You literally had sex with a bunch of minors and you're like, oh man, poor pitiful me. My guy has not read The Scarlet Letter. Even I know that this is not the right comparison to make.

55:49Rob:Famed non-reader of fiction. Famed, you know, I'm not a fan. No. But I'm fluent enough to know. Out on Nathaniel Hawthorne. Actually, you know. And on the Demi Moore film. Not what I said. I could be convinced of the larger merits of Nathaniel Hawthorne, but I'm pretty sure he was not writing about being a sex offender. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that that's true. I'm pretty sure that that's true. A little casual adultery is a little bit different than statutory rape. I have some questions about how they decided to use Eric Dane in this. And by they, I just mean written, directed, produced, executive produced by Sam Levinson, decided to use Eric Dane this season because Eric Dane, who has since passed away, had pretty advanced ALS at the time.

56:28Rob:And so the decision to have Cal be in the show anyway, but show up everywhere drunk so that the slurring nature of his speech, which was just a function of the ALS, is written into the plot as Cal only feels loved by his whiskey or whatever. I don't know. What do you think of that? I think if he's going to be in the show, I mean, these are the two paths, right? Either you don't talk about it or you make it part of the plot. Or you don't use him at all. Yes, or you don't use him at all. Given that he's going to be on screen and they made that conscious narrative decision, Cal being pretty deep in his cups feels consistent with that character to me.

57:07So it's not like this came out of nowhere. I buy it. I'm on board for like this kind of speech he would make at a wedding like this and how he might be feeling and trying to get through the night. That part checked out to me.

57:17Rob:And Nate telling his brother to go grab the mic. And then his brother doesn't seem to do that. I don't think he wanted him to grab. I think it was like, be on the ready, you know? I'm gonna give you the collar and you do the hook. That's what he was wanting. I'm calling out Nate's brother. Because when Naz is there, I would say pretty loudly threatening Nate. Lexi at least is somewhat paying attention a little bit, but not as much as I would, you know, because Heather hears it. Lexi is closer. Lexi is just sort of like, are you okay? Not, hey, it sounds like someone's threatening your husband with bodily harm because of his exorbitant debts or something like that.

57:55But I watched season two. Lexi is the watcher of the show. Isn't that the whole bit?

57:59Rob:She's a writer. She's a writer. She's an observer. She's constantly eavesdropping in on conversations. That's true. Not my Lexi. Nate's brother is right there, just staring off into the middle of the distance the entire time. That tracks. That man has like a little dog jumping over a fence in his head. Just on the... Before we leave the wedding, I just need to shout out that Jules ordered my drink, which is a tequila soda. And that is just, you know, a very classy drink for a very classy lady. I just want to say. I can't disagree. do you have any particular accoutrement? Are you doing like a little lime squeeze in that or just straight tequila soda?

58:34Rob:Tequila soda rocks, lime. Yeah. Can't go wrong. Especially at a wedding, open bar. Oh yeah. That's the time. That's the place. Absolutely. Anything else you want to say about the flower, about Fred and Heather, about anything else? Just that a full wedding makeout, I would expect nothing less from Cassie and Nate. This, I do think they really did nail - No, no, no. They nailed a lot of the particulars of what it feels like these two people might do at their wedding. The last tacky detail is the white stretch hummer that they take back to their house where he says she makes him want to be a better man, a better husband, one day a father.

59:10Rob:And then he calls her Cassie Jacobs. If this is his like, I agree. Like if they had leaned even further into Nate Jacobs' cult leader, as you call out, that flower scene is really good. just the way in which and we talked about this in season one and two the sort of like psychological games that he can play with people the emotional and literal blackmailing and all that sort of stuff like that and so like Nate is a more successful weaver of stories but they're opting instead to make him look bumbling and idiotic more often than not it seems like or nicer more often than not than he was but like him talking Cassie down in the stretch hummer with one day a father and then calling her Cassie Jacobs, I thought was like pretty diabolical and good.

59:52Rob:So, you know. Agreed on that. I do think as far as a lot of his interactions at the wedding, that's where you could see a little bit of the like compulsive liar, Nate Jacobs popping through it. Not just the manipulations, but just like the way he puts out those fires, the way he's trying to constantly deflect and buy himself time. I agree that I don't even read him as necessarily more bumbling this season, just fundamentally nicer and kinder. The bumbling, I just mean in like the whole Nas situation. Like, I don't think he would just ignore that. I don't think he would get that far into debt to someone that dangerous.

1:00:23Rob:I think that's probably true. And just say, this'll be fine. Well, you know? Just to make the devil's advocate argument, what if there is something to say in this show about like a person who grew up with a like, all of my mistakes get wiped away kind of privilege than Nate Jacobs does. And just thinking that like, I'm just going to keep saying, I'm going to bring him the hundred grand next week and I'm going to buy myself time and it's going to be fine because I'm starting quarterback Nate Jacobs for whom all is good effectively. Is there a part of just like that obliviousness to consequence that could make sense for this version?

1:00:55Rob:And it's one thing to sort of manipulate high school girls and another thing to get into this with Nassim here. Yeah, it's a great question. Anything else you want to say about the wedding night? I mean, many things. I think, for one, I think we have confirmation that the only reason there is yellow carpet in this house is to be blood splattered, right? It's just for the contrast, right? Is there any other design choice that would lead a person to do such a thing? Tackiness? I don't know. Maybe so. Maybe it is that simple. You can have a yellow carpet and it'd be nice. I would just say not that carpet and not in that house.

1:01:26And not comprehensively yellow. It's like yellow wall and yellow carpet. I mean, the very like monochrome thing. I can be sold on in certain contexts, but maybe not that particular shade.

1:01:36Rob:Anything else you want to say about it? Other than your interior design? That's what people come here for, Joe. I mean, rest in peace to Nate's toe. There had been some chatter online about, is Jacob Lorty only in three episodes this season? Like, does Nate die at the beginning of the season? I don't think you cut off his toe just for him to die. So I think he's, I mean, obviously he's not dead by the end of the episode, but like, I don't think Nate's going anywhere. I don't know how much Jacob Lorty is in the rest. Like, I could see the beginning of the season being kind of Nate heavy. And then a handoff.

1:02:06Rob:Like a little lighter later on. But like, I don't, there have been a lot of theories that he was only in the first three episodes. I don't think that's the case at all. Clearly not. I mean, the investment in his and Cassie's story has been so significant that even if you do kind of shift balance, you're going to have to show what happens to them. Well, I have some, you know, literally we have not watched Beyond Episode 3. We do not know what's coming. I have watched the like this season on trailer. And there is a lot of like Maddie Cassie content. And so I'm curious if if this idea of some women inherit fortunes, others inherit debt.

1:02:40Rob:If Cassie is on the hook for Nate's debt. if Maddie and Cassie just get to generating those bucks. You think the OnlyFans is back open for business? Oh, I definitely do. You think baby play is in season? I think we have not seen the last of incredible getups on Sydney Sweeney this season. I mean, that was always going to be the case regardless of it's any professional capacity for her or not. But overall, I mean, this toe included, I've already had my fill of foot stuff. I think we're okay. If we just want to, If we just want to skirt past, I know we're getting into nylons and cellophane. This is the Tarantino light season, though.

1:03:17Rob:We can't, we can't, no foot left behind. There are just a lot of fetishes if you want to indulge them out there. And so maybe let's, let's diversify. Okay. So every week Rob comes down on another fetish. I'm not planning to, but that's just what the show's going to do. Okay, great. Before we get to all of that, we have Rue talking on the phone to Fez. And so this is another, in the vein of me asking about the use of Cal this season, we had an opportunity here. So like Angus Cloud passed away. Fez cannot be physically in this season. So they made a decision not to kill that character off screen, but to put him away in jail so that we cannot physically visit him.

1:03:50Yeah.

1:03:51Rob:But to take it a step farther and have Rue have a phone conversation with him where we don't hear the other side, obviously. But like, I found this kind of ghoulish. How did you feel about it? I had ghoulish written down that it didn't quite get that level for me. Like if it had stayed on speakerphone and were like Paul Walker style, like reconstructing sentences. With a re-speecher app sort of thing. If it was either previous footage reused or AI driven, I think I would feel that way. This just felt unnecessary. It's like, why do we need this? We already had the mention to kind of cover our basis of like what Fez is up to.

1:04:25He's not going to be in the story. He's in prison.

1:04:27Rob:Heather Collins is in Portland and Fez is in prison. Important things happen off screen. And in this case, you can at least understand why. I did not need this conversation. I think it was just to give Rue one more thing to do on her way to the errand she doesn't need to be on. it's just kind of, it's kind of a bummer for a bunch of different reasons, but I just think it's pretty unnecessary from a narrative standpoint. In Lori's camp, we're setting up this, you know, with Faye as this object that her foot soldiers are sort of arguing over. But here's the most - Nazi one, Nazi two. Do we know the other guy is a Nazi or not?

1:05:04I mean -

1:05:05Rob:Let's assume. Birds of a feather. Yeah. Let's assume. Here's the most important. Safe watch 2026. Faye is allowed in the basement unsupervised. Something to know. Something to put away. She has basement privileges. Just thought that was interesting. The Thomas Crown Affair outcome for this season is in play, Joe. With the snake, I hope. Lori says the grass is always greener by the septic tank, which I think was a great line. I want to shout that out. And then Rue is on the job. Bishop poisons the bird. Bishop asked Laurie if Laurie named the parrot after Richard Boone. She says she didn't know, quote, blacks like Westerns.

1:05:46Rob:And then we get the whole cowboys versus Indians. Which one are you? And Bishop says he's a motherfucking cowboy. Again, I think this performance is better than the writing, but Bishop is really working for me as a character. I like Bishop. I did like that line. I wouldn't say that I needed the dramatic money toss onto the table finger guns routine. I kind of liked it. I don't dislike it. I think it gets at overall with this whole sequence. Like there is an attempt at intensity in this whole like standoff, what are we doing here? What is this run all about? Kind of dynamic in the room. And also of style with shots like that and the construction of those scenes.

1:06:22I'm just kind of like, all right. Like again, like something about the way we got here felt so contrived that putting all these people into an intense situation just didn't really like deliver for me necessarily.

1:06:33Rob:I don't, there's something. So Daryl Britt Gibson, who's playing Bishop, who I think I know best from You're the Worst, but has been in a million things, including The Wire or Californication, et cetera, et cetera, Barry, et cetera. Like just a great face, a great energy. I find him just like compulsively watchable. And so I think if it were like, with love and respect, Marshawn Lynch in this sequence, it would have fallen really flat for me. But there's something so off kilter about him. Definitely. And this character in this performance that I just, I was kind of bought all into it. Also, he's poisoning a bird and then like covering it with all of this other nonsense in order to get away with the poison.

1:07:16And you have been wandering around these office halls yelling death to all birds.

1:07:20Rob:When will we kill? I do think the idea of - Do you know that? Okay. Please. Quick story about death to birds. Let's hear it. I've never killed a bird, but. I'm glad you also clarified that. Go on in. A friend of mine was a teacher and one of their classroom pets were these doves. And occasionally she would have to, like, take the doves home as you do with, like, a classroom pet. Sure. And it turns out that, like, when you cover, like, the bird cage at night, they sort of, like, think the world is over. There's something about bird brains where they just, like, get addled and confused easily by a darkened space.

1:07:55Can I ask you a question? Does this not happen to you?

1:07:57Rob:Oh, when the light's gone? I mean, that's just what, that's just where I'm living, but maybe me and the doves. And so her husband, every night when he threw the cover of the cage, he just went, death to doves. And it made me laugh every single time. It's a fantastic bit. Those poor doves. Death to doves. I think about it all the time. The doves are fine. Well, I mean, I'm sure they died eventually, but they were not because of that. The world object permanence. Yeah, exactly. Just having your whole world blink out of existence. Extremely rough. And then we get the DEA showing up on the scene. Rue still listening to the Bible, so still committed to this bit.

1:08:34Rob:In the many critiques that people had about Euphoria of the Season, one thing that we noted in episode one certainly was they were like, this is so Breaking Bad. The opening felt very Breaking Bad to us. I saw an article that was essentially the same gist, but the headline they used was, Rue is now inside of a Netflix crime show. And I just want to say, excuse you, it was an AMC crime show before it was on Netflix. Breaking Bad is AMC. That's all. I just wanted to clarify the record. This is not Narcos Coded. No, no, no. No, this is Breaking Bad. But it did feel very like, I always think about like FX in this era and I bring it up all the time.

1:09:12Rob:But like Sons of Anarchy, this feels like very much like a Sons of Anarchy turn of the plot or something like that. Like where someone who's been involved in crime, all of a sudden here comes the DEA and this is where the story is turning now. So yeah. Especially like a somewhat unwitting person who does have a conscience, who isn't of this world. Because she just happened to Pinkman quite easily. I mean, easy to flip. Yeah. Anything else you want to say? I just don't know any other reason other than being flipped why Rue would be being pulled over in this capacity. Unless, like, Lori's place was already being staked out.

1:09:41But it doesn't make sense to me that Lori or anyone in her gang would call anyone on Rue or that anyone in Alamo's gang would turn her in.

1:09:49Rob:At first, I thought it was Lori. You know, even though you saw the red and blue lights, at first I thought, you know, when they were talking about kidnapping Rue, I was like, you know, is this a fake out and she's about to be kidnapped. But now I don't think it's that. I think it is genuinely the DEA. I think probably so. Okay. We were mixed pause on the first two episodes. Do you think you're like mixed negative on this episode? No, I wouldn't go that far. Yeah. Some of it's just like I had such high hopes for the moments in which we would get. The Nate and Cassie wedding. I mean, the Nate and Cassie wedding, Maddie's presence there, what it was going to feel like to get all these people in the same room.

1:10:21And it was just a little dispiriting to find out that many people involved are just not going to let that happen for perfectly understandable reasons, but it's just like not what euphoria is going to be.

1:10:30Rob:Right. And so I'm just like missing, I'm missing the magic of like all of these performers have such unique and sometimes conflicting energies. Yeah. And you don't get that like very particular euphoria blend of having like three of them having one conversation or a gaggle of girls in the bathroom, like all bouncing off each other. And I would love to get some of that back, but I just don't think it's what euphoria is going to be. I do. Yeah, I'm thinking about the plot lines going forward. And if like Cassie and Maddie are sort of in the same plot line, does does that intersect with anyone else?

1:11:00Rob:How does Jules story possibly intersect with anyone else? How does like, you know, we got a little bit of a bait and switch with Sharon Stone. We haven't seen Sharon Stone in like two seasons, but like Lexi's whole, you know, soap opera. How does that intersect? And then the Rue crime story. Like, are these separate stories? Never the twain shall meet? Or are they all going to blend together somehow? I'll be interested if I know. I think they're all going to be a very exciting crossover episode of LA Nights. Tune in. Can't wait. I do have one more wedding related question for you, Joe. Get Low plays at Cassie and Nate's wedding.

1:11:33Yeah, yeah. Millennial Anthem. It has played at, I'm not joking, every single millennial wedding I've ever been to. Really? Completely. Is Gen Z rocking with it like that? Do you think this is a Cassie and Nate era song? Or, I'm granted, Or did Suze request it? I mean, maybe. Songs of all times play at a bunch of, at weddings of all styles. So it's not like it has to be so beholden. But you're like,

1:11:53Rob:is this the new electric slide or not? Is this the Cupid Shuffle or not? Frankly, I would be honored. If this is the contribution from our generation is that we are getting low. I think it's a great, it's a great signifier of everything we're about. If you're Gen Z and you want to email us maddiesnumberoneboy at gmail.com and let us know if you would play Get Low at your wedding, we would like to know. Please. Anything else you want to say? One more message for the jewels and nate shippers out there? I think I've done my bit. Okay, you'll be okay. Let it go. All right. We will be back with more Euphoria.

1:12:25Rob:That's all we're on right now, actually, is just Euphoria for the foreseeable. We'll see if anything else crops up. But if you're late coming around to Beef, we've done now three episodes covering the entire season of Beef, which is a binge drop on Netflix. So you can go check those out as well. Sounds great. Thanks to everyone who worked on this episode. That would be Kai Grady, Dev Rinaldo, Jacob Cornett, the whole crew here at Sycamore. And we'll see you soon. Bye.

1:13:19We'll see you next time. outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia. Engineered for whatever.