‘Furious’ Episode 6: Food, Showers, and the Holy Ghost

19:10Joanna Robinson:Is there not an option to delete Alice's video off the drive? I suspect that will happen. And then just submit the rest? Well, if Alice's video is on the drive, she is going to be off the case, which I assume Dani also would not want. And maybe even any evidence that she has collected to this point would be, I don't know how valid it would be. Oh. I mean, I'm not a legal expert, but it's like, again, her proximity. I thought you studied swamp law, though. Well, this isn't swamp law. Different kind of swamp law. Got it. The perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub, followed by ice cold Pepsi.

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20:08Joanna Robinson:It's no surprise how fast civilization can disappear. Out there, just kill or be killed. Jacob Elordi. There are people out there. They need our help. Josh Brolin. Shoot first and inquire afterwards. Margaret Qualley. Okay, tough guy. And Guy Pearce. Arm up! The Dog Stars, directed by Ridley Scott. In theaters August 28th. Get tickets now. Rated R. Under 17, not admitted without parents. What else do you want to talk about in terms of like Catherine and Alice's interactions inside of this? Or Gene as a character inside of this episode who's like. I do love Gene. Yeah, Gene's great. But, you know.

20:45Joanna Robinson:What a real one. I mean, she competes in canning in the state fair. I was wondering about that. How were you? What are the competition parameters for canning? Is it not taste? I don't think it is. Oh. I don't think they opened the cans. What? I think it is strictly, look, again, I'm out of my area. If you are competing in canning, I would like to know about it. You think they just like roll the can to sort of like test the balance of it? I think they test, for one, aesthetics. Clearly, you want like an aesthetically pleasing pickled whatever in a jar. Also, they're testing the seal, right? The food preservation that is the purpose of the canning.

21:18Do they actually taste what the canned goods? I would hope.

21:21Joanna Robinson:Of course they must. But then you're violating the canning. when you understand the seal as you break it. Yeah. It's a question for the philosophers. How can one understand the nature of the seal without breaking it? That's my argument. Aren't we invalidating the very point of the canning if we're just going to can it and then open it in two weeks? I wonder if you have to can it six months to maybe even several years in advance. This is a subculture I want to get into. Maybe there's a subcategory for five years or more. Oh my God. You think there's an aging bracket? I'm learning that I need to find my way to a canning competition, preferably at a state fair.

22:00And we just need to get to the bottom. We need to do some boots on the ground research.

22:03Joanna Robinson:Rob, I really see you as someone who would submit something to a state fair. Like a pie competition. Oh, I would absolutely do it. The canning, though, terrifies me a little bit. No, no. Anytime you're putting a heated piece of glass into your oven to seal it. I've canned jelly. Like I've made jelly from scratch before. and then like, you know, yeah, you have to like boil the jars. I don't like that part. No, it's very upsetting. But yeah, are you going to enter a pie competition? Is that what you would do? I need to work on my lettuce, you know? The crust can be a little fickle for me. I'm going to be honest with you.

22:36All right. Filling not a problem.

22:37Joanna Robinson:What about like a cake competition? I think I could do cake. I could do cake paste, but again, I need to work on my piping. It's all in the aesthetics. Imagine if you were a blue ribbon winner of the cake competition. I would never take the ribbon off. I would wear it to this podcast every single episode. You finally break your like no real stickers on the laptop roll and just slap the blue ribbon on it. Fucking giant ass ribbon on that thing. People are like, why is there this centerpiece on the table that's empty? Oh, I'll fill it. I'll fill it with ribbons. With accolades from my canning and jarring.

23:05Joanna Robinson:What if you don't get the blue? What if you get like a runner up or something like that? Then I'm going to quit. Okay. I'm going to retire to the wilderness somewhere and get my shit together. Meanwhile, the icon Jean is not letting, you know, any setbacks at the state fair. Whether she's winning or not, she's running the shelter like clockwork. I just love this character and I love her attitude and I love her like, I'm not going to turn you. Well, first of all, she's like, I saw, we did get emails from listeners about where one could find a wanted poster. Resoundingly, the local news. And I was like, God, I don't watch the local news, but I should.

23:37Also New Yorkers were saying subways, subway stations.

23:40Joanna Robinson:Bodegas. Again, I think maybe this is just, we are disconnected from the public spaces where you would see such a thing. But yeah, the local news or I guess nebulously online. A friend of mine was telling me that she follows, she doesn't watch the local news, but she follows her local news on like Instagram or whatever. So like. Is that better? Better than not engaging at all, I would say. Yeah. I guess it depends on, again, what the kernel of truth and the widespread lie that is local news coverage. I'm talking about like TV style Sinclair local news coverage. Oh, okay. Not like a local paper.

24:14Stop fake newsing.

24:19Joanna Robinson:Stop attacking the media. I'm talking about the direct-to-camera. There's something dangerous happening in your neighborhood. Okay, so Rob Mahoney, anti-Jersey Shore, anti-the Fourth Estate. Yes. Well, that specific element of the Fourth Estate. Otherwise, you know, we're all in journalism together. But yeah, I mean, like, I knew the Bay Area, when I lived in the Bay Area, as recently as this year, yeah, there's like four local news stations that I would really, really trust. Sure. and so I need to get to know those stations in LA but I would like to know but it also feels like there would be anyway the news it's great and you can see wanted posters there if you want to I don't think that's where Alden saw it I feel like Alden saw it online somewhere it was online it was on his computer it was on his computer yeah okay anyway Jean saw it and she's like I saw your face on the local news wanted poster I'm not gonna turn you in no if Satan himself were here I would not call the Making a sandwich.

25:14Joanna Robinson:And so, like, let's talk about these systems, right? So, you know, both Catherine and Jean are just sort of like, what good is the system here? How will cops help? How will the feds help any of these women here in these dire straits in this circumstance? The system that they believe in is the system of this shelter. Yeah, that they have created. Right, that has its rules, that has its take a shower, like eat food, take a shower, go to Bible study. Like these are the things you have to do to be to be part of this particular system. And this is the one. And it's like, you know, for women, by women.

25:51Joanna Robinson:And the fact that Catherine worked there and was like helping women is like so devastating. Again, it goes back to that sort of like not to once again invoke the red dragon, but just sort of like this idea of like, what if we could have helped her even more? Because there is something in her that wants to help other people. Yeah. You know, and so the fact that she was helping people, the fact when she describes having her own apartment and what it meant for her to have this place that was hers that she could come and go, and the fact that she was trying to take care of, I guess, Elena, like Isabel's daughter.

26:26Joanna Robinson:Our listeners were like, right about that, right? But like trying to take care, just trying to do all these things and then just like couldn't because the emotional and physical trauma that she had experienced was too overwhelming. And it's just sort of like, it's a devastating story. I think the apartment story in particular of just like finally getting her freedom and self-sufficiency and having it slip through her fingers because she just like couldn't hold down the right jobs, couldn't stabilize herself in the way that she wanted to. But you see the glimpses of that, Catherine, in this episode.

26:58I think part of what I love about her early interactions with Alice when I think she's a little more open to the idea that this woman is actually here because she is a sex worker who needs a place to stay. Yeah. Like you can see the part of her that used to work here come out. And like the way she talks to her, the way she vouches for like what this place can do for you. Like there is a warmth and optimism in that character that she rightly has not had a chance to flash in any of her other encounters with other characters this season that I think just sets up the heartbreak even more when you learn more about what happened to her.

27:30Joanna Robinson:You know, she says from the jump, you know, because we go slightly back in time and watch her arrive there and talk to Jean and say, they're going to get me soon. Like, it's almost over. You know, this is something she said to Hal. Like, I don't, I'm not trying to survive this. Right. I'm trying to avenge my friend, figure out what happened, avenge my friend, and then they can do with me whatever they want to do with me. So they're going to get me soon. and then the way she almost she almost wanted it to happen inside of this episode where you know where she like has cornered Alice could have left her there doesn't leave her there but she's just sort of like where is everyone like you said they were coming where is everyone and then you lied to me and then all these other things but just sort of like like there was a part of her that decided it was already over and there was like some kind of relief in that of just sort of like she was surrounded there was nothing she could do at that at that juncture.

28:26Joanna Robinson:And then for her to shoot Marshall, great stuff. And then run off in this very reluctant way. I just really liked how all of that played out. I mean, I adored the way this episode ended. And the double back specifically for Catherine Grace, just the true girl's girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really showing up. I think here's the thing. Within this episode, and we talked about - I mean, it's lady heat, so yeah. you gotta make it I think weirdly enough Frank Choi kind of loops into this too where or less him more Danny Kelly with Alden part of why this show works we talked about it sense of humor and the kind of counterbalancing force of that having a buffoon like Frank Choi in the mix I think is really important tonally to make us not just be in dire straits all the time this show understands the power of like a knowing look and I think some of it like a lot of it's for comedic effect a lot of it's Danny Kelly and Alden being like I get it like this this whole fucking thing.

29:24It's crazy. Like we can have this moment together. Yeah. And I honestly think a lot of it is kind of like in the, like the Liz Merriweather way. Like this is like a Jake Johnson superpower to me. It's like he can sell that. We're all laughing together at this moment. And here at the end of this episode, after Marshall gets his ass shot for being a dick and an abuser yet again. Yeah. You get the like, what do you want me to do with this guy? Knowing look. And that like moment of pregnant pause where the answer is obviously fucking kill him.

29:51Joanna Robinson:Right. But she's not going to say fucking kill him. And so you get this kind of middle gesture that is like honestly amazing and potent. And I just like I could not love the double back sequence any more than I do. But this moment of like, are you ready to cross this line with me? Like, I know this is in you. This fury is in you. Like, you've experienced this. I'm offering you my services. This is something I'm particularly skilled at, right? but you have to say you want it and then join me on this other side of the law and she's not ready for all that the Alden Danny stuff was really good you know you invoking Jake Johnson I was thinking a lot about like Max Greenfield and Jake Johnson a little more Morris and like and you know New Girl which was ostensibly a show about Jess like really became a show even more about like those three guys and sort of their dynamic and watching Alden and Danny and Frank like sort of fumble bumble around the office like really made me think of all of that it was really funny um but then you get this Danny Alden you know real heart to heart you know um and and I mean Danny just continuing to endear me to him when he's like let's just get some ink break a pen I don't know um but like uh you know him just saying like, she probably killed your mom or like, is it love if you don't know her name?

31:22Joanna Robinson:And then for Alden to say like, you think love is someone doing everything exactly what you want them to do? That's fucked up. I thought that was like incredibly profound actually and like really, really good. And then, you know, his Alden talking about how like, you know, do you know how hard it is to find someone who looks at me and doesn't just see the chair and all these other things. and I've been told my whole life I was like unlovable and I didn't deserve this. And now I finally found it and you want to take it away from me or want to tell me that it's wrong in some way. When he says, don't let her die to Danny after he like indicates where the USB drive is, says don't let her die.

32:01Joanna Robinson:And the way that his eyes are filled with tears and they're still filled with tears when he just rolls into continuing to fuck with Frank Choi. I don't respect you. Yeah. But his eyes are still so sad when he's just like zipping away from him into the elevator after having fooled him yet again. I just think this is an incredible performance and an incredible episode. I mean, we were so worried that Catherine was going to kill Alden last week based on just seeing too much, knowing too much. This is not a character who leaves a lot of loose ends dangling. This week, my concern was almost that he was going to get sidelined, that Alden would be brought in for quite, like he would have his initial funny moment at the house and then they would bring him into the office and we'd basically never see Alden again or minimally.

32:47He carries half this episode. Yeah. He has a really crucial role. And I think not just for the comedic effect, which is killer, like all those scenes are really, really funny, but setting up, as you say, the idea that he knows, like this is a character who's not stupid. He knows that he's been lied to. Yeah. He knows that he's been manipulated and he has chosen because he wants to love and be loved to not care about some of that stuff so much. and I think I've really enjoyed the deployment of some of these characters who were in Catherine's orbit after the fact. A lot of them end up dead. Let's be real about it.

33:22But your Alden's, you know, like Oliver's daughter, characters like that, we have seen like vouch for her, protect her. And there's something like there's clearly like Catherine is a character who can be charming, incredibly charming, probably if we want to be dark and honest about it as a survival mechanism, right? Like this is probably something that has kept her endeared and alive in some of the circles that she's been in. But when she wants to connect with another human being, it can be an incredibly powerful thing. And also, she puts herself in these positions, like whether it's as a helper, a love interest, a like would-be advocate, like that are just enough glow where there's not too much scrutiny into them.

34:04Like people will take some of this stuff at face value. People will believe you to a point, even if they don't fully trust what you're saying. they're just going to like go with it.

34:12Joanna Robinson:Yeah. And a lot of that's because they want to like her. And I think that, you know, there's a genuine protective care that she has, right? For Alden and for Oliver's daughter. Steve Way, who is the actor who plays Alden, and I don't know when it's publishing, so I hope he doesn't mind me previewing this. My pal, Anthony Breskin did profile him for Esquire. So look out for that. but like pegged to this sort of like showcase episode for him. But what he is able to encapsulate in this episode is exactly what the show is so good at, which is just sort of like an uncanny balance of tone. I think tears in the eyes don't let her die in the same breath as like fucking with Frank Choi.

34:57It's incredible.

34:57Joanna Robinson:Is just like such an unusual melding of serious devastating pathos and comedy. like half of this episode or two like if it's Alden and Nora and Alice and Catherine are like the three sort of sections of this episode with the side of Marshall sitting in his car surrounded by beer bottles sure bad fish etc two of those are comedy beats you know and like you know Nora's like there's some comedy in there too but well that's what I'm saying two of them are like Nora's slapstick sort of like evading at doors and then there's like the horror devastation anger of it. Like there's always that turn inside of the comedy.

35:39Joanna Robinson:But I would say if you're breaking this episode into three parts, Alice and Catherine's stuff does not have a ton of comedy in it. Some, but not a ton. Them on the playground with her like kind of hurling herself over the playground. It was very childlike. It was. But also very fun. Like again, there is something just like very heartwarming about watching them together in those early scenes. The Alden stuff is undeniably funny. And then the Nora stuff is really funny until it's not. And so it's just sort of like this show which ends with a serial killer shooting the abusive cop who's like threatening the life of our hero detective and I'm like hey Rob be ready with the funniest moment of this episode and by the way that hero detective we learned was the subject of like grown men preying on her and filming her when she was a minor be ready with the lulls Rob like that's what this show is it's really wild to me I want to on the Alden front first of all I know you did some like great freeze frame work in his office last time or his room.

36:38Joanna Robinson:Quick preview for Slow Horses. Who do you think has like the sicker set up, Roddy Ho or Alden? What do you define as sicker? In the eye of the beholder. Roddy's got some truly depraved stuff happening. Sickness is in the eye. Well, I just mean like sick and like a sick. But like I think Roddy's got the tech for one. Like, I mean, I guess what do Slow Horses make? I don't get the sense that they make a ton of money. But yeah, Roddy is. I mean, he's he's definitely into like Ethereum or something. Yeah, there's really no doubt because he's got like new track suits. He's got weird, like illuminated swords on his wall.

37:11Like he's got disposable income. So I'm going to go with that just because look, the health needs are very different for these two guys.

37:18Joanna Robinson:Follow-up question. Which Ringer podcast should Alden be on given that he drops not only a Twilight reference, the eyes of a killer, right? The Twilight reference. But also I believe he's referencing the absolutely iconic 1959 Some Like It Hot when Danny's like, do you think she killed your mom? And he's like, no one's perfect. That's the end of Some Like It Hot. I'm going to be honest, I did not clock that. I don't know. But like, it seems like that's the reference there. And I'm like, the breadth of reference from Alden, Twilight to Some Like It Hot. My guy's a cinephile. Well, we've been wondering who the third chair on the big pick is.

37:59Is it Chris? Is it Tracy Letts? I think it should be Alden. It's clearly Alden.

38:02Joanna Robinson:It should be Alden. Yeah. All right. You want to talk about Nora and Ed George? I would love to. I mean, just in the hoisting by your own petard, the Nora story in this episode. The hubris. But that hubris tasted real good. Those moments where she does seem like she has the upper hand. And granted, as a TV watcher, you're kind of waiting as you see this shit unfold to wonder like what other shoe is going to drop here. but like the satisfaction of seeing a character who has spent at least a decade bottled up in the feeling of like this shady guy swept this case at minimum under the rug and has also treated me like shit for a long time and getting to really take him to task, immensely satisfying.

38:44And then, yeah, it didn't go so well for that.

38:46Joanna Robinson:I own you now. Like just wait, wait until the operation's done, Nora. Wait for two things. Get the laptop data back. Get Catherine in custody. one way or another. Right. You just have to wait. It's very tough. But the gloating, the performance, like it is, it's super fun. It's really great. The whole like, I was a little pup then and now I know how to play. Come on. I mean, this is, I got hair on my neck. I'm a lioness. From the jump, right? She's like, I'm going to take my time to get up there. She gets in the elevator with this guy, Ralph. This is a nominee for the funniest moment of the episode for me.

39:24Joanna Robinson:My dad, Your dad, your dad, did he pull through? No? That's, yeah. Thought he would. It's just really.

39:34Joanna Robinson:Thought he would. Really, really good. But yeah, this edge arch confrontation, this, you know, connection that she's made. She has cracked part of the case open in a way that she didn't understand. And we see, you know, I don't know if he's getting texts directly from Jay, if this is from Jay's daughter played by Hope Davis, like who's texting Ed George on the phone, but he is getting direct texts from the villains saying, Hal's dead. What do they know? You know, keep us informed. So it's not conjecture. He is corrupt and he is involved. As if we doubted once we saw his face, but like, you know.

40:17Joanna Robinson:And she talks about sort of the like, you mentioned this idea of his like, I don't know, outward facing evolution, right? The Ed Georges and the Marshalls and the just sort of like we learned from the previous time. And I was a victim too of the toxic environment that I was brought up in, right? The version of him at the end of this episode is like, I really want you to get help. You know, I really want to see you do well. Gross. Is this the moment when I get to read a section from Waiting for Godot? Please do. Please, Joe. Just take it away. Can we get the lighting modified in here? Just get a clear spotlight.

40:50Okay. Let Joe cook.

40:51Joanna Robinson:Samuel Beckett's Waiting for Godot, right? She says, she drops the line, they make noise like feathers, and that's the name of the episode. But this is the exchange. All the dead voices, they make a noise like wings, like leaves, like sand, like leaves. Silence. They all speak at once, each one to itself. Silence. Rather, they whisper. They rustle. They murmur. They rustle. Silence. What do they say? They talk about their lives. To have lived is not enough for them. They have to talk about it. To be dead is not enough for them. It is not sufficient. Silence. They make a noise like feathers, like leaves, like ashes, like leaves.

41:30Joanna Robinson:Guess what? Samuel Beckett, bars, had some things to say. That was never really in doubt either. I love the repurposing of that as detective work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the idea that the dead speak is in every detective story of all time, that you follow the trails, that you continue to understand these people and who they were, and that leads you to break the case. Not to mention the opening crawl of The Rise of Skywalker. or everyone's favorite Star Wars movie. Of course. Somehow the dead do speak. But again, this is like all, this whole sequence, while kind of devastating to watch it all unfold in real time as far as Nora getting the upper hand and losing it, you see everything about this wonderful character all here, right?

42:11How brilliant she is in not just having the kind of upbringing that would lead her to make this quotation in the first place, but to make the sort of connection that Jay Easton basically gave Ed George the break in his career that made his career so he could own him, so he could call in a favor just like this one to get rid of a dead girl's body. And then at the same time, having like her pride to gloat about it too early. And then like her coping mechanism wielded against her to disqualify her in this post and kind of her future in this job. Like it is so much of Nora happening so fast in a way that I think is just like really brilliant writing and certainly just an amazing performance.

42:50Joanna Robinson:And I just, I love how this ties into, again, at the end of episode four, when Nora tells Alice to take a backseat on the, you know, sit this out, burdened as she is by her own guilt or sense of self preservation or whatever the case may be once she sees that it's tied to this Jane Doe case. And that was such like a disappointing to me moment. But that's what I love about the characters on this show is that they can like disappoint me and then I'm proud of them, but I'm worried for them and then I'm just sort of like, Nora, what did you think was going to happen? She also looked incredible this episode.

43:24Joanna Robinson:The way that her blouse matched the yellow of the FBI jacket. I was just like, she's coordinated for task force business. She looks great. That idea of ownership I think is really interesting that you bring up because she says, and I own you now. Right. That's what she says right before he owns her. But the idea of Jay Easton owning Ed George to a certain degree and that idea of ownership that's come up a couple times when Catherine in her seduction of Oliver is like, you know, I want you to like own me. I want to belong to you. And it's the same thing that Alice said when she was sort of entrapping Marshall of just sort of like, like, I belong to you.

44:01Joanna Robinson:You own me. Right. So like the way in which Jay Easton has considered all of these girls, you know, and that there are certain people who just because of their immense wealth and power, just consider everyone, you know, no real person involved a real succession idea of just sort of like these are all just like pieces on the board that I own the board and I own every single piece on the board. And that extends not just to these young women who are his victims, but also these institutions that he can puppeteer with his influence. Well, especially, I think, the inversion of that idea within Ed specifically.

44:38I mean, you mentioned how Catherine wields that idea against men, right? The idea, like, I want you to own me as a manipulation. What happens if your technical subordinate at work, who is a woman, is saying, oh, now I own you? and that's really the first thing that lights a fire under Ed George to do basically anything all season I think like clearly he is feeling squeezed from both directions and this is the most aggressive that Nora has ever been managing up to this point but for someone who was already under the thumb of this very powerful man to have like unaccomplished successful like cunning woman also threaten his post from what he sees as below clearly is a bridge too far for him and it activates in something in him that is clearly like evil in a way where he is now, as she says, like putting officers in the line, putting agents in the line of duty in real harm.

45:28Joanna Robinson:I thought even you would draw the line here. Like that's supposed to be the cop code. Like they may not stand for literally anything else, but they aren't going to let other cops die. I do like the extreme lack of haste he shows when he shows up and Marshall's bleeding out on the ground and he's just sort of like, huh.

45:44Joanna Robinson:Yeah, I think all of that's really, and of course, the racial component that she brings in when she talks about this diversity hire way in which he menaced her earlier in her career. I really, really, and I mentioned this last week, but I just really like that Ed George is smart. Yeah. You know, when we see him, she leaves the office, he's trying to figure out what's happening with the laptop, and he just lets out this like very soft, like, fuck. But he's, but the camera stays on him because he's just working. Yes. He's just trying to figure out what his next move is. and I just, he's not, I mean, he's, he's sweating.

46:23Joanna Robinson:He's like feeling the pressure, the squeeze, as you said, but he's not desperate. He's thinking. And that's what makes him a dangerous and worthy adversary for someone like Nora. And he, you know, within minutes, he's like, the laptop has nothing. I've called off the, I'm going to go pick her up. So like disappear her. Who knows what the fuck he was planning to do with her. Or claim credit for the arrest. Right. But he doesn't want her testifying. So like disappear her or make sure she's shot in the line of whatever or menace her or pay her off or whatever he was planning to do. But she would be under his thumb.

46:57Joanna Robinson:And then bounces Nora, you know, essentially from the department. Like incredible work from a Georgia piece of shit. And as an intermediate step, in order to bounce her from the department, has already placed a preliminary call talking about the alcohol in her breath when she, you know, walked all the way up to his floor earlier in the episode. So it's like all the little steps that he takes to protect himself. Like you can see how this guy has survived as a political animal in this kind of industry. And it's gross to watch, but it's good TV. And also to go back to like Nora and her fallibility.

47:28When she says to him, I knew they were going to promote you and I wanted your job.

47:33Joanna Robinson:I wanted it. So she admits that like it was driven not just by the system that was working against her good work, but also her own ambition. I'm just sort of like, I thought not only like, yes, I thought I could do good in that role, but I wanted this promotion. And I did that and I've had to live with that. And now what can I do to sort of rectify that or, you know, alleviate my own guilt or, you know, recommit myself to why I got into this in the first place. Something I might have lost sight of, but I've reactivated by dredging up this older case. I think so much of this show is an Alice and Catherine showcase as far as who those characters are and the depths of what they have suffered and what brought them here and how they navigate the world and everything around them.

48:16But like Nora is an exceptional character. This is an amazing like tertiary or leadership figure that honestly in a lot of procedurals and detective stories, we just don't get. Like we just don't get characters that are this rich in this way.

48:29Joanna Robinson:Well, yeah, they just don't. This role. Yeah, you're right. This role. I've seen a lot of great actors and actresses play this role of the like sergeant or whatever. And fun or good in their way. But we don't get the depth on them. And so the way in which this show is constructed as a story of like three angry women, complimentary, is fantastic. Furious even. I do want to go back to the kind of shower showdown between Alice and Catherine. There's so much happening there. I mean, we talked from the Ed George perspective. He has made Alice a liar by calling off the support that was circling, you know, the shelter to begin with, which if there was any chance that's happening and there are flickers of moments where it's like kind of feels like Catherine might be willing to make a trade or barter or kind of like make some kind of arrangement.

49:16And then as soon as she whiffs, gets a whiff of the fact that like, maybe you lied to me, everything implodes. But moreover, the kind of larger conversation they have about what happened with Alice in the first place, when Marshall would pull her out of the shower, when she made an unofficial report or comment about his behavior and the idea of like, can you trust any of these systems? And how can you, someone who has suffered from those same kind of like imbalances in the way that I have, honestly sit here and tell me that this is going to work?

49:47Joanna Robinson:How clearly Alice felt let down by the system. I was wondering if she thought, well, if the NYPD is corrupt like this, maybe the FBI will be like a better place and a more virtuous place. And then she's like, oh, it's the same. It's broken everywhere. Ripped off the mask and it's the same guy. It's the same guy. It's still Ed George. So yeah, I thought that was really good. I also thought, I mean, like we should shout out Emmy Rossum's drugged acting. Yeah. Incredibly good. Immaculate stumbling. But just sort of like the way her face felt like heavy to watch, how it was like hard for her to like lift her eyebrows or articulate words.

50:28Joanna Robinson:I just thought all of that. Yeah, the stumble was really good, but it was like almost more like, how do you get your face to look that convincingly like numbed and disconnected from what your brain is doing? Completely. And I love trying to read these two women and their motivations in all of this extended sequence too, because like Catherine does double back to save Alice from Marshall. Like he has been stalking her. And again, like using like the police tracking app to stalk her while drinking, then assaults her, then who knows what happens from that point if Catherine isn't there to shoot him.

51:00And like she is doing that because they have had this kind of shared moment and clearly an identification of a certain kind of like, I see something in you that is also in me and I'm like here to show up for you in the way that I wish someone would have for me. Do you think that same instinct is in Alice? And I wonder that about the end of this episode where how much of what Alice has been doing all season is I'm trying to help someone like Catherine. I'm like, this is someone who has been in a parallel situation to me if she has a consciousness and an awareness of that and I'm trying to help her.

51:31How much of it is like, I don't even really care about that aspect. I'm trying to get Jay Easton. I'm trying to get this larger power structure. It's just like the ways in which a show that is constantly interrogating women, supporting women versus exploiting them within the system. Like there's so much of a larger machine here that is leveraging everybody all the time and everyone is just trying to survive. To what extent does Alice, like, care about Catherine? Or is she a serial killer to hunt and a means to get Jay Easton? Like, where do you kind of fall in sort of that larger thought process?

52:04Joanna Robinson:I think she tremendously cares about her. It was never about justice for the Oliver Charleses of the world. Do you know what I mean? No. She didn't see, like, oh, a fellow Elvis Costello fan. I must stand for him. But I think it's a great question about the Jay Easton because that's also Catherine's agenda. Catherine's It's true Catherine's pointing them in a direct Catherine provided the photo she's trying to direct the investigation she was so pleased when Hal was like Oh delighted the cops have the photo and she's like aha they're doing the thing I hoped that they would do and so I think I mean if your larger question is like at the end of the day is Alice someone who would just like let Catherine get away possibly especially after after she saved her here you know like Is this is this heat or is this point break is what I'm asking Is she shooting the gun up in the air to let Catherine run off into the wild?

52:55I prefer a point break, if I'm being honest with you. If this season ends with Catherine surfing the world's largest wave, I will ascend. That will be the peak for me. I look forward to seeing it.

53:06Joanna Robinson:All right. Anything else you want to talk about that we haven't gotten to? I think we covered most of it. I mean, I just fucking love this episode. It might be my favorite episode of the season today. It's mine, yeah. And a lot of that is just like the tight framing, the pressure these characters are under, the ways in which they are all kind of struggling and failing simultaneously letting each other down trying to support each other and like I just think that the way in which all these characters have been woven together is such expert stuff right now and I mean the performances are off the charts what a great show what a great show how lucky we are to get to watch it to get to cover it PrestigeTV at Spotify.com if you have any thoughts about how to like what Rob should submit to the California State Fair would you do would you want the California State Fair ribbon or the Texas State Fair ribbon.

53:48I feel like I might need to is carpetbagging the term where you like move to a different state to try to win an election? I need to move to like, I don't want to call anybody out, but a less populated state.

53:59Joanna Robinson:I feel like carpetbagging is different. But let's just keep it to the giant states of Texas and California. Which one do you think you're most likely to win? Well, I'm cooked in both. I'm not operating at that level. These are professionals, you know? Well, yeah. You think the Arkansas pie bakers are not professionals? I think if I go to the Alaskan State Fair, I think I have a chance because there's only like six people competing. You know, like that's what I'm saying. We need to bring the population down. Those six people might be very good, but there's only six. I bet the pies in Alaska are delicious, honestly.

54:33What is the term that I'm looking for?

54:37Joanna Robinson:It's almost like, it's not redistricting, but like, I know what you mean. No, no, it's like a candidate specifically moving to a state to establish like residents so that they can run in that state, even though they're not really from that state. So like me competing in the Idaho State Fair. Right. That's the dream. Okay. Can I do enough with the potato to really make that pay off? I don't know. I don't think you want to touch the potato categories. I gotta go non-potato. Yeah, non-potato if you're in Idaho. But do they even respect a non-potato? I mean, if you're in Idaho, tell us about the State Fair situation.

55:05I'm just trying to gauge the competitive landscape.

55:07Joanna Robinson:Have you read the David Foster Wallace essay about the State Fair? I actually don't think I have. What book is it in? I don't know. He wrote it for a magazine, so like a collection of essays. I'll send it to you. I think it's the Minnesota State Fair. It's kind of amazing. I mean, the Minnesota State Fair, legendary. Also will not be competing in the Minnesota State Fair. No cheese-based, no cheese curds. None of that. Okay. I would like to think about what I could possibly ribbon in. Certainly nothing 4-H related. I don't know. I want to think about it, but I would also love. more than like moving to Idaho and, you know, getting involved in potato-based crimes or whatever.

55:45Joanna Robinson:I think we need to find the niche. This is like the niche EGOT, like how you win an EGOT by like narrating an audio book or whatever. So like, what are the niche state fair categories that we could possibly win? I think that's the tactic we need to go for. See, I was wondering more like, perhaps in the style of Furious, although with less like trauma and justification involved, do we find a sparsely competitive category and just sort of like make a couple people disappear and we win by default. Okay, so we're killing people now for the ribbons. I did not say that. Okay. Did not say that? That was your assumption?

56:17Okay. I'm just saying they didn't show up that day.

56:20Joanna Robinson:It's August. We're starting our campaign now. Help Rob and Joe win the California State Fair. You have to murder pie bakers or canners around the state. We didn't say that. Who are we to judge? Thank you to Jacob Cornett, who was here bright and early this morning. We had an early start today. so that Rob could go see The Odyssey again. Don't air out my business. He will have already seen it again once you listen to this episode. Shout out Kai Grady. Always. And we'll be back with more Furious. Can't wait. Bye.

57:04This episode is brought to you by chat GPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about chat GPT work? It's the new way to use chat GPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give chat GPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chat GPT.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans.