‘Furious’ Episodes 1-4 Recap

23:01Joanna Robinson:I also think that like to add to that, you have in this episode, episode four, you have Hal is Campbell Scott's character. His son is Blanchard. Blanchard. Just like the name is amazing. so perfect and then his wife is played by Janelle Maloney from West Wing etc but like a perfect and leftovers yes and leftovers more importantly a perfect sort of like waspy performance similarly you cast Hope Davis as like the iconic wasp sort of situation like we're just missing Laura Linney honestly for like the trifecta the holy wasp trinity here but like the way in which Janelle Maloney's character whose name I don't have in front of me But like the way in which they're too liberal and too polite to like kick her out of their house is so funny to me.

23:55Joanna Robinson:But then, of course, like, you know, when we find out that Hal is part of this family, you know that they are somehow deeply entrenched in this horrible web of sex trafficking and abuse. but there is this sort of pretense of liberal niceness that is part of this family is part of this like New York liberal uh fakeness that's in here and I love it it's really I mean I know it's like not not like you know reinventing the wheel or it's it's not like not a little bit obvious but I do think it's genius how it's like really up with the times like these sort of like sideways glances at the Epstein of it all, you know, like, and, and a liberal, you know, like the idea that like, there are these like pillars of mom, Donnie's New York society, but they're, their hands are just as dirty.

24:45They're in the picture. They have a 15 year old in their lap, you know, is like the way in the interrogation scene, when, um, when Hope Davis's character, Emma, Emma Houston, when she's

24:56Joanna Robinson:like um you know we're doing a charity to raise awareness for my father's cancer and um and alice is like oh that's amazing that's just amazing you know or watching the video that she watches of you know this other charity event that they've done and earlier in the season and watching like jay easton like sort of hand this award off to these young girls and alice can just clock what is off and what is wrong. They're like body language is slightly off. Yeah. I want to talk to you about the casting of the men in this show because we were talking a little bit before we started recording about Jake Lacey who plays Marshall, Alice's ex-boyfriend.

25:39Joanna Robinson:They were childhood sweethearts. He beat the shit out of her. She is now forced to work with him. You know, Chris was saying like, oh, it's such counter-casting to have Jake Lacey show up this like good guy and we were talking before we started recording about how this is like a microgenerational reaction to Jake Lacey who did play the like the consummate good guy for a long time in Hollywood and then he did White Lotus and ever since he did White Lotus he has actually like played the most raging douchebags and scary assholes and so like I think for a lot of people they're like oh Jake Lacey's here he just is a jerk and for other people who saw High Fidelity or Obvious Child or all these other things that Jake Lacey did before it's almost like the casting that Emerald Fennell did in Promising Young Woman where she like got all these nice guys to play these abusers but I do think she's doing that Liz Meriwether is doing that elsewhere when you have Rob Delaney totally the internet's boyfriend love the internet's best boyfriend funniest guy in the world love Rob Delaney love him Campbell Scott is here I love love Campbell Scott yeah but I know that I'm gonna find out that he has been up to some scary skanky shit and so it's just like that kind of I don't know that I would put Jake in that bucket but maybe but I would definitely put But when Rob Delaney showed up, I was like, this is just a perfect use of Rob Delaney.

26:58Yeah, it was wonderful. And also giving him a daughter. Because it's truly one of my— He's a girl dad. One of the things that makes my blood boil the most where it's like, I understand because I have a daughter. And I was like, okay, so it took you bearing child to understand the humanity of women.

27:16Joanna Robinson:As a father of daughters, you know. And so if you don't have daughters, that's fine. You just beat and kill them. That's okay. but now I understand now that I made one I get it and this is also maybe like a very specific House of R thing but the actor who's playing Jay Easton who seems like the biggest bad of them all played Father Lantam on Daredevil who's just sort of like this kindly priest figure you know what I mean who like I don't know how many Furious watchers also watched all of Daredevil on Netflix but like I did and so he's been in a lot of other things but like that's another guy where I was just sort of like, I'm used to feeling very warmly towards him.

27:55Joanna Robinson:And I'm just like, whatever you did, sir, I am horrified to find out about it. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures. More than ever, America needs a laugh. Enter the Super Troopers to the rescue. The cult comedy classic returns in the most offensive installment yet with Super Troopers 3, a debaucherous bachelor party, an over-the-top wedding, a dangerous drug smuggling ring. All of them are threatening the troops' future. Fill your liter of cola and roll up to the multiplex for Super Troopers 3 only in theaters Friday. Get tickets. Meow. Evening. Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car?

28:32I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake.

28:37Joanna Robinson:I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. congratulations. I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the all-in-one finance app to bank, borrow, and invest. Say goodbye to account fees and give your bank balance a glow up with the SoFi high yield savings account. Get over eight times the national average savings rate and an epic welcome bonus when you sign up with eligible direct deposit.

29:17Sign up at SoFi.com slash Spotify. SoFi checking and savings offered through SoFi Bank NA. Member FDIC. Terms apply. I'm so obsessed with this show and what it's doing with the trope of the perfect victim. Tell me. You know? Well, because I think that's a thing, right? Like, it's like you want a victim to be perfect. You want them to not have done anything bad or do anything bad because then you can morally justify anything they do do. But one thing I wanted to ask you about, it's like, so far so good, right? Except that she clearly murdered the woman that ran the shelter, that she blackmailed and coerced into helping her procure drugs and wigs and cleaning products.

30:08And that woman, you know, I don't know if she did deserve it. I mean, it's a gray area because she seduced her and she was like in a position of power. So like you could, but it's like, oh, like, what about that one?

30:21Joanna Robinson:You know, she still is like. When she's asked the question, she's like, do you think you're a good person? You know what I mean? I do. I mean, that's the thing is like, where is her line? It's unclear. You know what I mean? And it's just sort of like, I think for a lot of people who are not me watching at home, they're like, hey, she shouldn't kill anyone. And I'm like, she should kill all those that's how I feel about it certainly the first one she should have disemboweled him but I think that like that woman who worked at the shelter I think that's an interesting question to the earlier conversation of like you know can women be shitty too on this show absolutely Marshall's mom again like pouring honey and then just sort of like turning on her and all the rest yeah this woman I mean let's hope that this is the first person that she ever had sex with at the shelter but like these are abused scared women and yes Catherine Grace did like seduce her like put the moves on her but like one should you know I don't think she should have died but like you know yeah so but that is like a that's a serious fucked up thing to do that's again why I think it's great right like also that victim's not perfect it's just like this continuous thing of like what's where does your responsibility lie how how big is the spectrum of badness yeah you know and who deserves what yeah and back to Nora's character who like even though like of course that was disappointing because you're like oh you're impeding you know but you're punishing Alan you're making out here's the thing my read of this it's just the end of the episode we don't know what's going to happen in the next episode.

32:06Joanna Robinson:I don't imagine that Alice is just off the case for the season. There's like another half of the season. But like for her to say to to make Alice feel like it's her fault. Right. You know, she's pushed up against the wall. Right. Like I think they did a really good job of for me anyways. I was like, oh, this shitty male boss. Again, there's always like another layer. The shitty male boss who was awful to her. Yeah. And who I mean, or she's a drunk I would be too if I had to look at child porn all day babe I would be at the office all day just to get through and this man basically threatened her oh no he definitely did he threatened and it's like so she's like she's like do I lose my career no I mean I or do I like act on the fly again like what do I do to like survive I understand why she did what she did I'm just saying like I would hope that instead of making this young woman who is like under her like tutelage feel like she fucked up by defending herself against her shitty abusive boyfriend, she gaslights her into like saying, you fucked up.

33:10Joanna Robinson:Now, to your point, I understand why she did it. Like, because she was threatened and she's terrified to see her name on this case and is this going to come back to bite her? And is it going to bite her boss? Well, then like, you know, destroy her. Expose her alcoholism. I just like, I was just like, oh man, I just really wish you two were in it together. And I mean, like, from the very beginning, Nora has been, you know, teaching Alice, but also derisive towards Alice. Totally. And that's great. That's, you know, it's a complicated character. That's great. This was just the moment where I was just sort of like, you're gaslighting this woman who, like, every shitty guy around her, except for perfect angel baby Scoot McNary, I'm so scared.

33:54Joanna Robinson:But, like, every single guy around her has made her feel this way. And now you're just hopping on over to the patriarchy side to make her feel that way as well. And I think it's cool. No, I mean, it is. It's good. I like it's good storytelling. But yes. And I can be emotionally disappointed in the character at the same time. I just I'm like, oh, it's so cool. It's been so easy to make this like, that's my mentor. That's my homegirl. You know, she's she's going to put me under her wing and take care of me. I don't mean that it needs to be like sunshine and lollipops. I just think there's like you're like you're always trying to figure out where the line is.

34:26Joanna Robinson:And it's just sort of like there's the like in episode one Nora telling her like oh were you abused? Poor you. Like whatever. You're like oh that's shitty but like she's tough but fair. And then this just teetered over into tough but unfair in a way that I was just sort of like oh I was hoping there was a line here. Yeah. And she just sort of like you know drunkenly reeled across it. But I'm interested to see like will she come back from it? Right. Will she like make up for it? You know like. Yeah. It's I guess what I'm saying is just like I love every subverted expectation because I'm not used to it, you know?

35:00And there was like a couple of things. These are like, I was wondering if you clocked them because I was just like, yes, I know this thing. Like when she's, Alice is in, I think one of the first meetings with Detective Frank Choi who clearly makes it extremely clear that he hates her and doesn't think she's good enough. And he says to her, you lucked out. You're a baby agent. You really lucked out. and her like again the micro acting on her face where it's like how many times have you been told you're just lucky? You know like you don't belong here. Yeah. You're lucky. Right. They earned it but you're lucky.

35:40You know? And it's like feminism the pink pussy hat has right on my head but I'm like I was these little things that I was just like oh like I just hope and imagine like a bunch of women watching this and being like I know him. Yeah. I work with that guy. Like, I've seen that guy before. I've seen that look before. The Blanchard date moment

36:03Joanna Robinson:when he was like, I love that you're a former sex worker and you advocate for sex work and stuff like that. And then calls her a slut in bed and he's like, sorry, I can't come unless I say that. Sorry, respectfully, you know. Or like, or her response, which I love, again, unexpected, where you would think she would manipulate it in a different way, but he goes, how did that make you feel? And she goes really angry. And it's like, oh, you were just honest. You know? And he was like, you know? Like, it's just— She's like, ally. What can I say? Any other microaggression moments that you want to call out while you have your pink pussy hat on?

36:40I don't know if this is a microaggression. This just made me laugh really hard. And I wondered if anyone else or if you laughed at it. When Choi and Jake Lacey's character are watching Alice and Irish cop— I can't remember anyone's names. you know, talk to Hope Davis. Yeah. And he gets her, she gets her to admit something or say something. And Troy goes, ho! Like, he's like so excited. And the look that Jake Lacey gives him, he's like, I just couldn't stop laughing. I was like, because his reaction was really bizarre. It was just something like so awful that the woman said. And he was like, and I was like, Warrior should not be like, you know, Arsenio Hall, hoot, hoot, hoot about this.

37:23Joanna Robinson:No, I mean, the show finds ways to engage in and like I the dropout which is um Liz Merriweather's other show um in addition to dying for sex but um about uh Elizabeth Holmes that one also found a lot of ways to be like quite funny inside of a really like upsetting story that it's telling and so So the way in which she's been able to take this new girl sensibility and take it into these darker corners of our reality is just completely wild to me. And to go back to Scoot McNary's character, Danny Kelly, and Alice, like, they have a will they? Why am I rooting for a will they, won't they inside of this, like, horrible sex crime murder show?

38:13Joanna Robinson:I know. But I'm like, can these two crazy kids work it out? Yeah. You know, will they survive this torrential downpour inside of this episode? You know, you made me think of another layer that I'm like, this is so interesting. Like to the point of like, is this Alice character likable? Right. She pays, not pays, maybe she pays them. I don't know. She meets guys on dating apps and has them come beat her up because she likes that, you know? And like, it's not entirely explained why or if that predates her abuse or if that's a direct result of her abuse. but like complicated. And you can, God bless Danny Kelly when she tells him and he's just like, I just want you to be happy.

38:53He's like,

38:53Joanna Robinson:is that what you need? Is that what you want? And you can see him being like, I don't think I can do that. You know what I mean? Or he's like, I don't understand at all. But he isn't like, are you insane? Yeah, he's not yucking yums. You know? He's not yucking yums. And obviously the yum is very complicated. It's like, I just, at every turn, I'm like, wow, like someone really thought about this. Someone, is, you know what show it kind of reminded me a little of? I May Destroy You. Yeah. That was, that was maybe the first time I saw that, that show, speaking of, absolutely destroyed me. Yeah. But that was one of the first times I experienced that in a show where I was like, oh, like, this is, this is, because, as much as it's kind of like a little hard to watch things like SVU or whatever, it's all very glossy and fake, you know, in a way that, I, well, the, isn't the idea behind, so I don't watch, not fake, but you know, I don't watch Law and Order.

39:51Joanna Robinson:It's tidy. Like the reason that a lot of people love procedurals, my understanding is that like, and especially procedurals like SVU or something like that, where something horrific happens, but it's going to be resolved within the hour. And there's not time to characterize the victim, like past, like, yeah, it's going to be resolved. You're going to watch this horrible thing, a murder or something like that. But then these detectives who you're with are going to solve it in an hour. And you don't even have to remember what happened last week in order to feel the safety of that at the end of the day.

40:20Joanna Robinson:And similar to a lot of people I love and respect and admire love murder podcasts. It's not for me, but it's something that brings them comfort and safety to hear that sort of like, what is it? I think this idea of safe scary. Right. Where it's just sort of like you feel you hear something scary, but you feel safe while you're hearing it. And so it just sort of like makes the scary world that you navigate feel safer. And so this is not that this is not that I also broke containment. I wish I had said it in the top of the show, but I wish I had recapped the show. We have a lot of wishes. I want to like point out that like if if you've experienced sexual assault or trauma or like anything in this realm, this show is not easy to watch you know like it it's enjoyable in so many ways but it's also like the same as to me if I may destroy you it's like you're gonna have to think about stuff that maybe you wouldn't have to think about when you're watching another show that deals with it because it confronts you with that stuff by like kind of mirroring back if that makes sense absolutely um so I do wonder like how that is gonna like it's it's a different experience to watch that and, you know, I don't have statistics in front of me.

41:39I don't want to be a Grey's Anatomy episode where they're like, hey, Joanna, did you know that, you know, 72 % of women have been assaulted or whatever? But probably 72 % of women. Yeah.

41:50Joanna Robinson:It's higher than you think. And I think it's, you know, we were talking about this before we started recording this idea of like, yeah, you can watch this show through the lens of I've experienced something similar to this. You can watch this show through the lens of I'm a woman moving through the world. And so there are aspects of this that I'm going to understand. And then you can watch this show as like a man who hasn't experienced any of that, but this is a compelling story that you're watching. And there are things that are going to sort of like pass you by as there are anytime you watch a show that is like dealing with hyper-specific experiences that are not your own.

42:18Joanna Robinson:I have that happen to me all the time. But it's still a very compelling, well done, not, I don't think it's a subtle show at all. I would not accuse it of being a subtle show. But to go back to your Grey's Anatomy comp, I don't feel like I'm being preached to at any point. And being preached to, even if it's about a subject matter you care a lot about, can be so off-putting or just like really shut you down. But what this is, is compelling, occasionally humorous, sexy, exciting, violent, dangerous, good storytelling. Visually amazing. Like some of like, all of a sudden she pulls those wigs off.

42:57She does. And then wears those cool masks. like she makes the killing look very sexy and there are stickers involved as well because she's because she's mentally 15 as you pointed out like that's that's another recurring theme right this woman this arrested development she's 30 I think right ostensibly I think I did the math it was 15 years ago 14 years yeah she's 29 right but she's obviously not 29

43:21Joanna Robinson:I just prefer this this just feels so much more honest to me than like the recent spate of mommy murder shows is what I call them which is just sort of like they're insanely popular. It's all echoes off of the Big Little Lies phenomenon. Just sort of this like beach read mommy murder. They drop almost weekly on like Peacock or Amazon or something like that. And like. It's like a rich woman whose life isn't as good as she thinks it is. Right. There's just like, you know, maybe Jake Lacey has betrayed her in some way. That happened to Shiv from Succession. You know what I mean? Like this, these shows exist.

43:56Joanna Robinson:I think they're really poorly done in terms, for the most part, in terms of, like, how the twists and turns unveil themselves. And for this show, for the question of, like, who did what to whomst, not really being the point at all of the show. It's not trying to shock and surprise you when you, like, find out about Isabel and her connections to Catherine and, you know, as we do in this episode. however the case continues to reveal itself, that is not the shock. There's no shock value to that in the show. When we meet Jay Easton, we're like, that dude did something horrible. I can just tell. And Hope Davis knows about it.

44:35Joanna Robinson:I'm not surprised. You know what I mean? Like, all of that stuff, I'm just not—it's not trying to fool me or surprise me. It's trying to engage me in the real ramifications, the real damage that this does. And then what are the choices you make after that? You know, Nora says something in episode one about, like, basically hurt people hurt people. Right. Which I know a lot of people who have experienced abuse in their life push back on that because they're like, we fucking hate that idea of hurt people hurt people. Because then there's, like, an assumption that just because you've experienced abuse of whatever stripe at some point in your life that you are now, like, a dangerous person.

45:15Joanna Robinson:But Nora, when she's talking about it, she's like, let's talk about the choices people make at the end of the day around this. Yeah. And so. I thought it was good because she kind of, if I remember correctly, she followed up with something like, I know actually a lot of these terrified girls never murder anyone. Yeah, they don't murder. She says, she's like, it's not. And I thought they did a really great job. Like, they drop in that little bit when Alice and Dana Kelly go to the foster home. And the woman is like, she was weird. You know, like. Like. There was something there. There was already some.

45:46Like, she was always a little off. So it's like, okay, like not all her people turn into like avenging murderers, like serial killers. But you pair a few things together, like a girl that's already probably a little mentally, you know, unsound and a heap this much abuse and trauma. And you take her best friend away, like, it's game over, babe. She's going to go on a killing spree. She's going to acquire some fentanyl, a few not amazing wigs.

46:17Joanna Robinson:the shot of when she takes the red wig off the like sort of Russian nesting doll wigs like you meet her in the blonde wig and then her commitment to the bit where she has this red wig that she wears when she's like Ginny right and she takes a shower at one point with the wig on I was like I'm like what's happening what's happening right now but I guess she couldn't come back and be like I have a new hair you know what else do you want to talk about that we haven't hit I really, really appreciated the daughter aspect, even though I think it could have been cheap and easy. But I thought, like, again, I know it's like, it's not a subtle show.

46:58But like, starting with the like, my dad won't let me cut my hair because he wants me to have a boyfriend. And then that last scene where she's holding scissors and all her hair is on the floor. And it's unclear. Right. Did she do that herself because she's been made aware of what a monster her father was? Or did, you know, did Catherine force her? Right. And like my arm hair is standing. So I'm like, that was really cool. Like that's a really, like what is it? And I still don't know. It's, again, it's not over explaining. It's not, but it's like doing a glance at like is the most important thing in the world.

47:31The male gaze is the most important thing in the world to be attractive to men, you know, at 15.

47:37Joanna Robinson:Yeah. I just, the way she takes all the time to curl the hair and then it's chopped off. And it's unclear. It is unclear whether or not Catherine did the chopping or this girl did the chopping. But it's Catherine's sort of like intent and impact that that be the end result. Totally. Let's curl your hair and make it look exactly how your dad wants it to look before it's all gone. Before it's all gone. And the sense that you get that when they interrogate her that she is protecting her. Oh, yeah. That she's protecting Catherine, you know? Absolutely. And they're like, she's going to be so traumatized because she's this murderer or whatever.

48:12And it's like, actually, like, you're like, no, she—

48:14Joanna Robinson:She gave me this photo to give to you. Yeah. And in terms of, like, a cat and mouse idea, this idea that, like, Catherine knew this girl would be interrogated, gave her this photo and said, give it to the cops, and then finds out from Campbell Scott and the elevator that the cops not only have the photo, so that worked. That worked, yeah. but are asking the right questions about it. And she gets this little smile on her face. Like, it's working. Like, I'm going on this killing spree, but I'm also leaving a breadcrumb trail for the cops so that hopefully they will, you know, and that's what, you know, the question is like, are we doing what she wants us to do by like focusing on Jay Easton instead of her?

48:51But I'm like, who's the bigger problem?

48:54Joanna Robinson:Right. Maybe my morals are fucked up, but I'm just like. Well, I wanted to ask you like, do you, because, sorry, I don't know if you do this on this show or if I'm also very dumb and don't understand things, but, like, are you speculating based on the pregnancy, based on the Jane Doe that is found, that we're meant to understand is her best friend, who was pregnant? Isabel, yeah. Isabel. Are we meant to speculate that that was Jay Easton's child or a man in power's child, and that's why she was murdered, and then that's also why it was buried? Because the implication, which I didn't completely grasp it, was that like this case went nowhere because that high up above Nora didn't— Ed George.

49:35Ed George didn't take it anywhere. And like, why didn't he take it anywhere? Because you can do a DNA test on a fetus. It could be the pregnancy and the baby, or it could just be like inconvenient dead girl.

49:47Joanna Robinson:Right, like we don't have time to solve this Jane Doe. There's a million of them. No, I don't know. I don't know. We don't have time to say— but we don't want to connect this Jane Doe to the circumstances of her death, whatever they were. Right. Do you know what I mean? Right. So it could be either. The pregnancy threw me off because I was like, oh, who's the father? Oh, yeah. And that will come out. You know, like you solve this crime and they'll be like, who is the father? And they'll be like, oh, it's an 85-year-old billionaire or whatever. Or his son or someone else that should not be the father of a 15-year-old child, which is nobody.

50:17Campbell Scott. Rob Delaney.

50:20Joanna Robinson:Some bad dude. Some bad dude. What I think is interesting, so this is based on an 80s film, Black Widow. Right. Loosely based. And I was, like, looking at the plot of that movie. And in that movie, the killer, you know, the woman who disguises herself with wigs and accents and all this sort of stuff to meet and murder rich dudes. She's just doing that to get their money. Like, that's the motivation. And she's being chased by a female cop. But, like, that's her motivation. Her motivation is, I want this money, so I'm going to. She's just a straight-up, like, grifting criminal. grifting killer who uses who uses sexuality in order to entrap right and so the idea of like why do women kill why do women murder like what what is the motivation behind this katherine's killing spree and the fact that it is sort of like the rot at the center of society in the way in which women young women etc are just again norris says this in the first episode like Like we, whoever the we are, want women to be sort of like raped and killed and go and just be quiet and go away.

51:24Joanna Robinson:You know what I mean? And like that's what a lot of storytelling has been. And it's sort of like what if they become a Medusa instead? What if they become a Gorgon instead? You know, like what if there is like, you know. I love all the little Greek myth. Oh, yeah. When she's like, because I'm very smart and went to a really good school. So that's why. Yeah. But yeah, so to alter the motivation and give this much more interesting and upsetting motivation for this character is one of a million improvements upon the loosely based source material that they made here. There is that part where Robby is like, oh, isn't it for the money?

52:04Like in the very beginning. You remember that? Yeah. And she's like, no. He's like really pushing it. He can't understand. and he's like, why would a 15, she's a prostitute. And you're like, a 15-year-old who was sex trafficked is a prostitute? Right. I don't know if that's what we would call her. Right, right. But it just has no, cannot differentiate between a victim and, you know, it's like immediately into the criminal bucket.

52:30Joanna Robinson:I'm really worried about Alden. I feel very protective of him and I hope he's okay. She does seem to genuinely care about him. No, I think she cares about him, but like where does the rubber meet the road in terms of like if he finds out more than she wants him to know. He was poking around a little. He was. Like, you know, it's the same reason I was worried for Rob Delaney's daughter, where I'm just sort of like, I think her instinct is to not hurt this girl. Yeah. But when this girl is like, hey, what the fuck is going on with all the electronics in the oven? What's happening here? Yeah, I didn't know.

52:57Joanna Robinson:I'm like, where is that line? And I don't have a grasp of it. To your point about, like, killing the woman who worked in the sort of the women's shelter. Yeah. You know, that line is really fuzzy to me. and so that puts me, the viewer, on the back foot of just sort of like what is the choices going to be made here? I would like to believe that she genuinely cares. I believe she genuinely cares about Alden. But does she care about him more than she cares about her mission to like be able to successfully kill all these people? Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm very fascinated to see what happens in general with the character because she's already like there's been like two allusions to the fact that she does not care if she loves or dies.

53:35She flat out says it. She flat out says it. Emmy's character. Alice. Alice. Says it also. She's like, this is a suicide mission. Like, this is not, this is like, she is going towards death. Like, she just wants to do her thing.

53:47Joanna Robinson:So here's my question at the end of the day. Again, my morals might be really messed up because I'm just like, kill all the bad men and I'm fine with it. But like, what do you want from the end of this show? From the end of this season, if this is like more than a season of television, I don't know. But like, do you want her, does she get to survive the season? Does she get to get away with what she did? Do you want her in jail? Do you have a sense of like where you feel like this character should or where you personally, Yassi, want her to end up? This is so dark, but I kind of look at this character and I'm like, this character's dead already.

54:20Like, she had no shot. Like, I don't, I'm not sure I believe that there's some like happy ending waiting out there for her if she only can find love or whatever. Like, her soul is corroded. Her spirit is broken. She is not a functioning person. Like, she's, her eyes are crazy. Like she's watching these trauma healing YouTubes while doing sex work. Like it's this is like the best I can hope for is she goes to an institution and has like a nice end of days. OK.

54:50Joanna Robinson:So that's what you want. I don't know if that's what I want. Institutionalized. Can you see that's a cool ending? Like just like sitting with her stickers in the institution allowed to be 15 till the day she dies. I find that I don't know. And I think that's a, again, it's like, that's more interesting to me than the like unveiling, unraveling the mystery of the breadcrumbs that leads back to Jay Easton and, you know, all of that sort of stuff is like, I think you're right. I think it's an interesting question. Like, can she be okay? Does she deserve to be okay? Do I want her to be okay? I find that I am unsure.

55:25Joanna Robinson:And that puts me in a really interesting position while I'm watching it. You know? Yeah. So I wonder, I guess my last question for you is like how and I guess you kind of just answered it. But like, how interested are you or how much do you want some sort of like twist to come out involving the Jay Easton of it all? Like, you know, like, oh, the breadcrumbs lead back and there's some like crazy twist that we weren't didn't see coming. I was not personally, but I wouldn't put it past a show in 2026 to do that. But yeah, that he that he's just a nice old man with cancer and he never did anything wrong in his life.

56:00Hope Davis's character is the Svengali. She is the Heidi Fleiss of the entire organization of teenagers. Like she didn't flinch.

56:06Joanna Robinson:Glenn Maxwell, you know what I mean? Like that's that's, you know, they're basing it on something, you know, she didn't like as they point out, she didn't flinch. She knew her dad and her and her brother. I mean, she's complicit in some to some degree to what to what degree? Who knows? I don't know. But like, you know, I think we're supposed to believe the cops when they're like, she definitely knows. You know? Yeah. That's their read on it. Campbell Scott, how many more episodes does he get to be on this show? Does he get to live? Given the trend, maybe one. Maybe one more. Yeah. Like he's already drugged.

56:39Yeah.

56:40Joanna Robinson:He's already got that fentanyl in him. He's already got the fentanyl in him. Yeah. And he's increasingly in a precarious position because he's in the van. outside of Alden's house, right? So it's like, he's got to be dealt with pretty quickly because he will be discovered by her new boyfriend. Well, that is Furious up through episode four. Rob Mahoney will be back and we will do episode five, I believe, again, unless Rob Mahoney comes back and he's like, I hate the show, but I just don't believe that's going to be the case. No, Rob Mahoney is hashtag ally. You know, he's going to, he's going to love it.

57:09Joanna Robinson:Press HGV at Spotify.com if you have any thoughts, if you're like, Joanna, why are you rooting for murder? Sorry. And you can let me know. Joanna, have you murdered anybody? Not yet. Great. But I've been thinking about it. You have a short list in case things turn for you. Thank you to Kai Grady. Thank you to Jacob Cornett. And we'll see you soon. Bye.

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