‘Industry’ S4 Premiere Breakdown: Cranking the Email Up a Peg

11:21Rob:You didn't learn stalking in J school? Is that not something you did?

11:23Jo:I didn't go to J school. I simply went straight into blogging. So I went ahead and got my black stalking hat from a non-prestige location. But yes, the journalism ethics are somehow dicier than the finance ethics in this show.

11:43Jodi:Yeah. Do you think what stopped them at her place was the journalistic ethics or was it the button fly? I was having trouble discerning what was ultimately like the barrier there.

11:54Rob:Great question. Sometimes it's only a button fly that will save us from our worst instincts. But what do you make, Rob, of this move towards, you know, bigger names inside of the cast?

12:06Jodi:I mean, it works only if it's more than the splash, right? Like there's shows where I wouldn't trust it. And this one, I absolutely do. Like I trust the substance and I trust, I'm sure we'll get into it, but like the economy of some of the storytelling here where within this episode, we're introducing like five new characters. We're touching base with all of the industry regulars who are still around. And we're basically telling a fully fledged, compelling story about a hostile takeover within a company I did not care about an hour ago. And now all of a sudden I do. And so if you have all of that working, then it doesn't feel like stunt casting.

12:39Jodi:It just feels like we're bringing in some heavy hitters, some like really established TV actors to play compelling parts and that we can believe in that they're going to be going somewhere.

12:48Rob:I should say, I like, I don't think of it as stunt casting at all. It just, again, and I don't mean to, I will not hammer this the entire time, but like, it reminded me of later seasons of Succession. They're like, we got Adrian Brody for a couple episodes. You know what I mean? Like, we're a different level now than we were when we started and we're doing something else here.

13:03Jodi:But that's what separates it, right? Like, what makes it not stunt casting is the substance of the show, is the writing of the show.

13:09Jo:And it feels, to me, it feels consistent to the show. Like I remember in season three, so sort of hoping with like Sweet Pea and Anraj, like, oh, maybe we're going to do like a Saved by the Bell new class. You know, we're going to see like the new junior traders or whatever. And that didn't shake out. But what we're getting is sort of like a different Saved by the Bell, the new class, like a different junior class of Charlie Heaton and Kiernan Shipka. And then also like a sort of different senior class. I do feel like that's always really organizational about the show is you sort of know where everyone stands within the pecking order because they sort of exist in the same world.

13:47So like Kalpin and Max Margiela come in and we know where they stand, you know, like we know what kind of power they wield within this society.

13:58Jo:And so it's really exciting to have these really good actors in the roles. But to me, they just fit so into the world that's been created. Right, and it's not like we're not swinging high,

14:10Rob:we're swinging mid, and I think these are, and not by talent, but I mean fame level, and I think these are, I mean, I thought Kit Harington was so good last season and better than anything I think that he ever did in Game of Thrones, and I'm delighted by the tiny glimpse we get of him at the end of this episode. The creators have said, I haven't watched it yet, but they've said that episode two is like a Harper and Henry episode, so this felt like a next time on. Yeah, it did. More harpsichord. I was like, I thought I was watching.

14:38Jo:I wrote down in my notes, what's going on with this weird piano? And then it was Henry.

14:46Rob:I guess my sort of last let's look back question before we continue to look forward for you, Jodi, is as someone who spent three seasons or two seasons covering it so closely in the halls of Peer Point, what does it mean for you for Peer Point to not be around in the show this season? It's a great question.

15:03Jo:It meant nothing to me, kind of. I realized in reflecting - You burned your purple purport hoodie. Yeah, my people are here. And these people, and Eric in particular, can spin all the nostalgic tales they want. But it always comes down, when they say it comes down to the people, they're lying. It always comes down to the money. When I say it comes down to the people, it is because I am in love and hate with these characters. And so like that I had Harper and Eric, I didn't need peer point. I will say I found myself pretty confused about where I was a lot, like geographically and within companies and where just sort of like where people were.

15:49Jo:It did feel a little less tethered, you know, to a place, but perhaps more tethered to the like relationships between these people that tie it all together.

16:02Jodi:Yeah, you don't have that gravitational pull of the office setting. And so with that, yeah, it does demand a little more explanation, a little more handholding as far as like, we know who these people are to each other, but literally where are they right now? I was left in a similar spot, Jodi.

16:17Rob:I think rewatching season three, I was struck by, you know, in a sort of binge fashion, I was struck by, there was less Harper than I wanted. And I don't know if that was just because like Mihaela was like busy or whatever. But the creators have talked about the fact that, you know, if they had any regrets about season three, it would be too, you know, like Yasmin and Harper and Rob all lived together, but you barely ever saw them sort of like crossing paths at home and stuff like that. Harper was just sort of like gone from the narrative for like several episodes at a time sometimes. And so having Harper and Yasmin, you know, in a room together in this episode and then having the plot put Eric and Harper back together, seemingly on a venture that I'm sure will go just fine.

16:59Rob:But like Harper and Eric, which is like my heart relationship on this show, toxic relationship on this show.

17:07Jodi:I mean, you and Sigmund Freud both, you know, there's just a lot happening there.

17:09Rob:You and your broken heart. My damaged, deeply damaged, warped heart. Having the plot put them back together in business together. Yes. thrills me. I love that they're just sort of like, guess what? The heart wants what the heart wants and the heart wants Eric and Harper to fuck each other over yet again, one more time. Right.

17:29Jo:And I think that's like where Mickey and Conrad are so smart is like, we don't have Peer Point anymore. We're not going to do the will they or won't they. Eric and Harper start scheming again and wait until like episode four. It's just like, go ahead and give it to us and give us Yaz and Harper in a room together. Like we need, we need this in season four because we don't exactly know when we are or where we are or who's we are, but we know who they are. Yeah.

17:56Jodi:I think there's ways in which these characters are clearly learning and evolving. I don't know about like really growing as people, but changing ever so slightly. And yet there are these immutable truths. Like when push comes to shove, Harper will burn everything down pretty much every time. And Eric cannot like idle himself on the sidelines. Like he's got the twitchy hands, even in retirement where he's not just going to sit by. Like, there's more money to be made. There's, you know, one of my favorite Jodi-isms is how men are obsessed with legacy. And who is more obsessed with legacy than Eric?

18:25Jo:Oh, nobody. And there is a certain subsect of men obsessed with legacy who will, when push comes to shove, get a Kangol hat. And that is what Eric did in this episode of television. And when it was time to get back, to get off the golf course and back into business, he whipped that Kangol hat right off.

18:43Jodi:Oh yeah, put childish things aside.

18:47Rob:All right. So the episode is paywall of Bukkake, just like a great tone to start the season. I guess my question, I just want to start with this sort of big picture. Jodi, did you like this episode? And was there a specific moment inside of this episode where you're like, industry, we are fucking back. Let's go.

19:04Jo:Yes, I loved this episode. I had a great time. There's like, there's just something about that industry score that never stops, that music that never stops. but then every once in a while you'll be like, oh, this is really American sounding or whatever. I just love it. I believe first illicit substance use six minutes in, which felt a little long, frankly, but I'm glad that we got there. You know, we were meeting some new characters. There was sort of like a cold open, but I would say the moment for me is when Harper hops out of that black car in her three-piece pinstripe suit. And like, this is the Harper I've always wanted.

19:45Jo:Like I've, the talent has always been there. The, you know, shark-like motivation to just keep moving no matter what has always been there. But I've always wanted her to like be a fashion plate. And so that was very exciting for me. Like her looks in this episode were so what I wanted. And I couldn't help but notice that, you know, the episode also very early on, we find out that she's, it's her birthday. She's turning 30. She gets a note from her mom. And I believe in season three, we heard that she'd gotten a note from her mom when she was on the Forbes 30 for 30 list. And her mom told her that her hair looked like shit.

20:22Jo:And she's changed her hair in this season. It's like the little details are there.

20:28Jodi:And I loved it. The birthday card from mom that says, looks like you got everything you wanted. I mean, just the coldest shit.

20:36Jo:Right to the heart.

20:38Rob:I loved that intro for Harper for a million different reasons, but one of them is like having just rewatched season one and how much of season one is Harper walking to work? Yeah. Like with her gray overcoat, her like cheap gray overcoat and her earbuds and just sort of like because she's just starting out and she has nothing walking to work. So to watch her come out in the same color palette, in the gray color palette, but like just swathed in luxury, hopping out of a chauffeured car. This is just sort of like how far we've come, how far we could possibly fall. She's back to work.

21:11Jo:Like, you know, I mean, in season three, she was wearing those little collared sweaters and kind of swiveling around in a chair, like not having a lot to do. And then amped up, amped up. But now it's like kind of back to the Harper we met who's like ready to go to war.

21:23Jodi:One of our emailers who they've already been quite active blowing up prestige TV at Spotify.com compared that walk to Darth Vader sauntering in and like there definitely is a cloaky appeal to what Harper's got going on here.

21:36Rob:It's an actual cloak.

21:37Jodi:I mean, seriously.

21:38Rob:I should also say, as listeners hopefully know, we love you so much. We love your emails. Press H.TV at Spotify, and we will come up with an industry-specific email before this episode is over. We did already get an email from someone that I would like to flag. It was suggestions of emails, and I was like, this is HR. Please do not come find us when you read this email.

22:02Jodi:This is a tough show to make an email address for, for exactly that reason. I got kind of like the not safe for work options.

22:11Rob:Ramoni, what was the moment inside of this episode? Did you like this episode? What was the moment inside where you're like, industry, we're fucking back. Let's go.

22:16Jodi:I did love this episode. I did feel so immersed in this world so quickly, even though it is pivoting in pretty dramatic ways, as you alluded to, Joe. For me, it is like if I can encapsulate industry in one line, it is this one from Harper. And I quote, is this all because you couldn't make me come? If you're going to have a fucking stroke, please do it outside my office. And like, as soon as she is flexing in that way, a different version of Harper than we've ever seen. It's like all these characters, as Jodi was kind of laying out, who have come up and sort of the contrast from season to season.

22:46Jodi:Like going from the Harper who walks to work to the Harper who's behind this desk saying those kinds of things. That's really exciting shit for me. I love where we are, even though other than like the framing you see in the trailers and we know there's going to be like such a heavy Harper Yasmin, I don't know if collaboration is the right word, but intersection over the season overall, at least I would assume based on the way it's being framed. Other than that, I have no idea what they want to do with this season. I have no idea the kind of story they want to tell other than it's like loosely about a neobank shedding its, I don't know, morally flexible ties.

23:21Rob:Let me hit you with some, you know, at least a quote from the creators who have been giving great interviews, including our very own Katie Baker, who does great coverage of industry on TheRinger.com. So expanding into journalism, expanding into politics in a more meaningful way than they did before, and expanding into sort of, it's concerned with power, which again is what, and again. Has it had always been though? but but in an industry specifically and then this season they're saying we never said the industry we just said industry so we could mean any industry uh so now it's also much more meaningfully politics and journalism and fintech and all this other stuff like that and so this is this is the quote uh that micky down gave to katie baker a globe trotting sort of conspiracy espionage thriller.

24:12Rob:And he likened to sort of Michael Mann films, and they've made comparisons to Michael Clayton. So they're basically written by Tony Gilroy, directed by Michael Mann. That's what we're going for.

24:23Jodi:Well, even some of the insider vibes, if you want to play the journalism angle.

24:26Rob:The realm of those kinds of films in the 90s and early noughties. So that is what they're going for. Jodi, does that thrill you? Does that concern you? How do you feel about it?

24:36Jo:Well, as you were saying that, I was like, when was I thinking about espionage in this episode? Oh, that's right. When Rishi and his brand new BuzzKind steal someone's password to take pictures of their email inbox. I was like, we've seen Rishi do some shit.

24:52Jodi:Yeah.

24:52Jo:We've never seen him do shit like this.

24:54Rob:I was so excited because like this was the problem. You know, Harper herself says in this episode, I'm not being allowed to do what I was told I was going to be allowed to do. Who knew Otto would fuck her over? It never occurred to me. But but when Rishi is like spying on someone else's cell phone, I was like, this is the log line of what I was promised in the season three finale when and when Harper tells Otto what she wants to do. Yeah. And I was promised corporate espionage. Yeah, exactly. And this is like the closest to what I'm getting.

25:24Jodi:And yeah, in that room, he's not the guy being a dude showing another dude porn at the wake. You know, like there are levels to this stuff. And like, I'm down for the corporate espionage. But what I love about all these characters is that no matter how far down they go, there's always other pigs in the filth with them. Like they're just surrounded by people doing weird shit all the time.

25:44Jo:Yeah, you don't have to look far. And also like, what is your, you know, what is the filth at that point in their lives? It's like we have heard Rishi say the craziest stuff. And there's like the ongoing or there at Pierpoint, there was like the ongoing joke of just hearing his lines a little louder in the background of him talking, you know, about how a veal calf fucks or whatever. And now we have him. You can feel, I think, a little part of him die when he like has to ask the guy to bring the OnlyFans or siren video back up again. And then when he's trying to play it off, he's like, oh, yeah, huge honkers or whatever he says about this.

26:27Jodi:I believe the term is milkers if you want to be specific.

26:30Jo:OK, I thought it was milkers, but I was like, Jody, don't say milkers if it's not milkers.

26:35Jodi:You can't be the milkers person if it's not really milkers.

26:38Jo:You can't bring milkers to the table if it wasn't already brought by me by Rishi. And like to to to see the extent to which he's fallen that like that's kind of like the old way he used to talk is a low point for him. now because his heart's not in it. Because his wife got killed in front of him.

26:55Rob:His wife got killed in the season three finale. That'll do it. These are the twists and turns you take here on Industry. I'm glad to see some character repercussions for that. For me, what was the moment where I was like, Yeah, what stuck out for you, Joe? Industry were back. It's sort of similar to what you were talking about, Rob, but I think it's when James Astor's body crashed through the glass desk. I think that was the moment where I was just sort of like, here we go. It's the one-two punch. Right, because, you know, the connection between

27:25Jo:if you're going to have a fucking stroke, don't do it in my office, to him immediately having a stroke. And then for me, actually, maybe the So Back moment is then right after he crashes through that glass desk when Harper says, very convenient. With a man dying in front of her and just, well, this is convenient.

27:46Jodi:But it was minor. It wasn't even a big deal.

27:48Jo:She did not know that then. It's very true.

27:50Rob:not know that then. I love when he showed up in his running gear and I was just sort of like, did they put him in his running gear so that I would remember him from the end of last season when he was also running? Or is this all that James does? Okay. I want to talk to you guys about the music in this episode because industry has always had really good music, but I feel like they're doing something a little different in this episode. I don't know if it's going to extend beyond it, but we are getting, you know, some of the traditional score, but we also get a, they went real social network in the score when, you know, Max Minghella of the social network fame fired his friend and couldn't look him in the eye, his co-founder.

28:29Rob:Like, we're doing social network. We've cast an actor from social network and we're aping the score from social network in this moment. I'm not mad about it. I'm thrilled about it personally.

28:38Jodi:I would say it's even maybe a little more anxiety inducing than the social network score. I considered listening to this score on the way here today. And I was like, I don't want that energy. Not on the road. Not on the road. It's not good for anybody.

28:51Rob:But I thought it was like, we're also getting like La Mer is dropped in here. Love is Blue, which is literally a song they famously used in a Mad Men. I was like, this is such a Mad Men song. And then they literally used it in a great Mad Men episode in season six.

29:04Jodi:Plus, shout out new season, New Order, Joe. You know, we're going to work bangers right out of the gate.

29:09Rob:New Order's here. And then we close with Henry Purcell's music for the funeral Queen Mary, which is the Clockwork Orange theme. Like he's plunking it on the harpsichord and then it goes, which is like a classical piece of music. And then it goes into the version that they use. I believe it's the same version they used in Clockwork Orange. So like having Henry in this like old world classical harpsichord space into the drug fueled dystopia nightmare that is the Clockwork Orange. And again, it just feels to me, and I like this, that the creators here who are now directing episodes, They directed their first couple episodes at the end of last season.

29:44Rob:They direct the first two episodes at least of this season, if not more, are just really trying to swing. Here's my bigger picture take on industry. I have liked it from the start, but it feels to me in the first couple seasons, because they were so green, which they've called themselves that, it felt a little bit like they were trying to prove that they belong on HBO. The way that sex is used, et cetera, et cetera. Way more sex than heated rivalry, by the way. Like the fact that he rivalry gets all this shit for being like having so much sex. And I was like, have you watched season one of industry?

30:15Rob:I have a question.

30:16Jo:Well, I believe what he rivalry has a lot of is pleasure. And there's very little of that on industry.

30:21Rob:There's a lot of sex and like not a lot of pleasure. But it just felt like slight, like sort of similar to our main characters about slightly more insecure in the first couple of seasons. And now it's just sort of like, we're here. We have this opportunity. We took some swings in season three and people fucking loved it. So let's swing even more in season four. And I think they like given the interviews that they've given, I think they really want to establish themselves as like prestige TV makers. They want to make an all timer show. And I don't know. What do you think about that, Jodi, about the music and about about the direction they're heading?

30:55Jo:Well, I think, you know, I wonder what motivates them, like if they if they are sort of motivated to make an all timer show or if they are just sort of solely motivated by this show, like this very unique creature that they have made because something that, you know, I talked about this show with Waz, I've talked about it with Charles, like that we've always said is that it burns through plot. And that is often an insult to a show. It is not on this show. It is, it feels sort of fearless the way that they take on these storylines and the way that they let the show and its cast and its plot lines and its topic areas just move and form and shape.

31:35Jo:And then the more anchoring things are the relationships between the people, the music, the even like that. I mean, Joe, you mentioned Mad Men. This new strange office that Harper has that is now like without a glass desk. That felt like that blocking felt very Mad Men-esque to me. And I think that as the characters find more of a place in the world, the show sort of also finds more of a place in the world and just like feels more secure.

32:04Rob:And I'm not mad about it, but I do think that like putting Kit Harington in the show when you're about to swing into the world of nobility and legacy and all of that is like very, we took the guy from Thrones. We had him do sort of like a more seven days in hell performance. Like comedy Kit Harington is like one of my favorites, but like we had him do more of that, but that's what we're doing. We're doing some madman swings. We brought Kieran Shipka in. We're doing some social network stuff. We brought Max Minghella in. I'm not mad about it at all, but I think that's like an interesting impulse that they have.

32:31Jodi:there's like a mood board thing happening in terms of that particular influence but i think it also speaks to the in terms of the larger framing of the show yes they do burn through plot yes there is kind of an aspirational striving reaching for prestige quality that's always been there i've just always thought of industry as like prestige soap basically for that reason and i don't mean that in a derogatory way but because of all of the shifting allegiances it's like if you watch this show over a long enough timeline we will see every character paired up with every other character in some kind of business dealing of some kind, usually underhanded.

33:04Jodi:And that's just sort of the soap formula. Like you do just cycle through that stuff. It has, in some ways, maybe as much in common with Gossip Girl as it does with Succession.

33:15Rob:Interesting. No, that's interesting. I need to process that. Yeah, I'm going to think on that for a little while. Are you big soap guy, Rob? Like, is that what you say? I mean, it depends on what we're talking about.

33:21Jodi:I like soapy elements, you know, wrapped up in this kind of sheen. Am I locked in on Days of Our Lives, General Hospital? like not so much, but I'm not turning my nose up at it.

33:31Jo:But the ways in which, the ways in which if you do tune into a soap and as someone who watched a lot of Passions when she was very young and wasn't supposed to be, like the way that something will shock you on a soap, suddenly someone's brain has been replaced with someone else's. It's like, yeah, Succession was crazy. There was crazy. But like Rob was ejaculating on a mirror in like episode two of this show. Maybe episode one. I can't even remember. But like it moves fast and furious in a way that a lot of prestige she beat is not. And then eating it. Right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for taking that Milker's bullet.

34:07Rob:You're welcome. I love to fall on swords for you. No, so like I think that what you say about Burning Plot, this is an interview they gave that I – a quote that they gave I think to Variety that I really loved where they were talking about – because sometimes when people talk trash, people so rarely talk trash and so I enjoy it. They were like, a lot of shows these days are one episode stretched over eight episodes. One episode's worth of plot stretched over eight episodes. And I really agree. And they're like, we strive to put eight episodes of plot into one episode. And I really agree. I think they accomplished that.

34:37Rob:And I think it's great. So, yeah. Jodi, before we started recording, you promised to tell us which industry character our personalities map onto.

34:51Jo:I didn't. And it's a word that you guys mentioned to me. It's a brainstorm. I'm just going to say that Rob was like, you know, maybe you, Joanna and Jody are Harper and Yaz. And my immediate thought was like, well, obviously Rob is Yaz. Wow. That was my I was like, yeah, but of course. So I, you know, maybe the gender dynamics took you there. But I think Rob's an immediate Yaz.

35:15Rob:Tell me why. Tell me why Rob is a Yaz.

35:17Jo:It's just, you know, that whimsical nature to win over anyone Sure He's got it Plus, I love a yacht, I'm going to be honest with you guys I know that you do And what happens on the yacht stays on the yacht Unless it falls overboard

35:34Jodi:I mean, a little light to medium, like a patricide I mean, who among us?

35:39Jo:It's like man's slaughter more than anything else

35:42Jodi:You're right, thank you

35:45Jo:Joe, who do you most associate with? I couldn't possibly tell you. Any fallen characters? And like, I think I'm Rob. Given the luck that I'm having lately, I think I'm Rob. The show's Rob. I'm Robert. Sort of. It's like the Sex and the City gals. It's like, I think I'm Robert and Harper. I'm somehow a combination of those two.

36:07Rob:I don't know. I have a hard time mapping myself onto the world. Well, because they're all awful. Yes. And I'm wonderful and perfect. and kind and pure.

36:18Jodi:I could see maybe a little bit of Gus and Joe.

36:21Rob:Honestly, if I was going to pick one, I would say Gus.

36:24Jodi:I could definitely see that, especially in terms of... Well, and just the increasing exposure to a world that is slowly breaking you apart. As is all of us, honestly, but it's tough.

36:33Rob:And then I'm the first one going out to Northern California.

36:38Jo:Bye. And you exited at the exact right time.

36:41Jodi:It's true.

36:42Jo:I'm dying my hair weird colors

36:43Rob:and I'm going to California. I'll see you later. Okay.

36:47Jodi:And then you're off to be a synthetic, you know, fight the aliens, Joe. Keep it up. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. You know, with just one trip to Whole Foods, you can travel the world. First stop, discover the taste of the Mediterranean with big sales on brands like De Seco, Arreos, and San Pellegrino. With Whole Foods prepared foods, dinner is solved. You can roam the world with empanadas, burritos, soups, and more. Maybe expand your snack repertoire to South America with colorful and crunchy Peruvian potato chips. Then straight to Mexico for dessert. You can pick up a Tres Leches family pack cake for only$10 every Friday.

37:26Jodi:All aboard? Save on regional flavors at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step-by-step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way, add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you with expert full service. Tax Act helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. This episode is brought to you by Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again Season 2 now streaming on Disney+.

38:04Jodi:Charlie Cox and Vincent D 'Onofrio are back And Kristen Ritter makes her highly anticipated return as Jessica Jones in an all-new season. As Mare Fisk tightens his grip on New York City, he makes Daredevil as his top target. Matt Murdock fights from the shadows, hoping to bring down Fisk's corrupt empire and reclaim his city. Don't miss Daredevil Born Again Season 2, now streaming only on Disney+.

38:30Rob:I want that franchise money. Okay, I don't understand this world very well, and I don't feel like I need to. I tweeted out about this, about how the pit and industry are combined shows that I don't understand the jargon, but I don't feel like I need to because they do such a good job storytelling. I understand when things are tense, and I understand when people have accomplished things to either win or lose in a financial situation. I am following Katie Baker's coverage quite closely because she understands this world better than I do. I did get a Bloomberg subscription because their recaps are like much more sort of granular in the money sense.

39:07Rob:We're not going to get all Bloomberg on this show. I'm just like trying to a little bit understand.

39:13Jodi:Are you potting from a Bloomberg terminal right now, Jo?

39:16Rob:Always, always. Buy self, buy self. That's my question for you two is if you were Margot Robbie in a bathtub, how would you explain the concept of shorts? which is what Harper is interested in shorting. She's shorting Siren. That is like her move inside of this episode. How would you describe it to folks listening at home? Rob, do you want to take the first swing at this?

39:41Jodi:I would love to. Am I financially literate? Eh, you know, broad strokes. And this is where my knowledge stops. You know how to balance a checkbook. I can get that far. You know, maybe I would be a tender subscriber in this way. I'm looking to, you know, to put on my personal portfolio. I'm looking to get into the wealth management game as a non one percenter. A short is obviously betting against a stock. Do I understand the mechanisms by which that is accomplished? I sure don't, Jodi.

40:11Jo:Oh, please don't throw to me. My specific thought while watching this episode and thinking about how many times I've watched the big short is like Margot Robbie can be as beautiful in that bathtub as she wants to be. And I can listen as hard as possible. I am never going to understand. I think it's that there's stocks that you believe to be overvalued, and then they're going to drop. Yeah.

40:45Rob:So here's my understanding. PrestigeTV at Spotify.com. If you're a finance pro or Marco Robbie and you want to email us, please do. We clearly need help. We need help. Here's my understanding. And there's a key part of it I don't understand, but here's my understanding. You borrow stocks valued too high, you know, that are overvalued. And then you sit back, you wait for the stock price to go, and then you buy the stocks back for less money than you initially got for them. But I don't know. That doesn't make any sense to me.

41:19Jodi:I get what you're saying, but also I very much don't.

41:22Jo:Is there any chance that you have a bathtub in your office that we could just kind of change the setting?

41:27Rob:You sell them at the high price. Yes. And then you buy them back for a low price and then you give them back to the person you borrowed them from. So I don't understand the borrowing process. I don't know how you were allowed to borrow stocks, but say you're allowed to say, give me your five pieces of siren, right? That are currently valued at$10. I'm going to sell them at$10. I'm going to buy them back for$5. I've earned$25 and now you can have them back. But if I don't play it right, I still have to like pay for, you know, there's like like a high risk there. Yes. Right. Like if I if I get the math wrong, I might have but I have to give them back no matter what.

42:02Rob:Well, it's also ethically a little shady, you know, like in this fashion, especially.

42:06Jo:Yeah. Like launching a fund that is that is fully run on shorts. And I guess, you know, the Harper's original idea was that it would be very like white night like and that's that felt like the story. That was PR for sure.

42:23Jodi:Did she believe that? And if she did, would she even care? No way.

42:27Rob:No, she doesn't care at all. So I might have just made things worse. And if I did, once again, press TTV at Spotify.com. Should this be the moment where we take a minute to brainstorm what our industry specific email should be without getting us on any watch lists?

42:44Jodi:Yeah. Joey. That's tricky.

42:47Rob:Would you like, you don't have to, but would you like to go first?

42:50Jo:I, well, you, I, I want to be clear, Joanna. you said offline that it cannot be colonelcreampieatgmail.com? I don't think it should be colonelcreampieatgmail.com. Then I have no suggestions. Okay. The reveal that Siren, this sort of OnlyFans competitor of this episode that we're introduced to, who is now, you know, and I love this part of the episode and I presume the season of playing on that, like, you know, these these big wigs and boardrooms who are acting like they're doing feminism by giving women the opportunity to express themselves the way they want to and make money only to reveal that before it was called Siren, it was called Colonel Cream Pie was positively wonderful.

43:43Jo:An absolutely perfect reveal. and also felt very in line with our new character played by Max Mingella. Max Mingella. I think it's Mingella.

43:59Jodi:Yeah, I think it's Mingella. It's British.

44:00Jo:It's all over the board. Max Mingella plays Wit, who is kind of, he's sort of acting like a white knight within his own company at Tinder. At least for the shareholders,

44:11Jodi:if no one else.

44:12Jo:And then he's like, I'm going to Ghana,

44:14Rob:keep it off the books.

44:15Jodi:don't let anyone know I'm sure it's fine

44:17Jo:and after he's chewed Calpin out for like you know his lack of ethical boundaries and how he's acting and what he's up to and then he leaves the room and then Whitney throws a chair and then hollers for his assistant to come pick it up it's like okay we're all Colonel Cream Pie

44:36Jodi:we are all Colonel Cream Pie you're right I really do

44:39Rob:I don't want Colonel Cream Pie to be in the email but if it were it would be we're all colonelcreampie at gmail.com. What if in lieu of the email,

44:48Jodi:when we refer to tender, or sorry, when we refer to siren over the course of this podcast, we refer to it as siren nay colonelcreampie, you know, just to really, really give honor to the heritage.

44:59Rob:Yeah, the artist formerly known as colonelcreampie. Rob, do you have any email suggestions you would like to float?

45:05Jodi:I do have some. I have a bracket of like, are these usable for us or are these going to get us in trouble?

45:12Jo:jerking off is recession proof at gmail.com right which i might like to counter with uh sucking fucking rolling the dice at gmail.com account pen line i have the exact same one

45:23Jodi:written down also related wanking is utilitarian at gmail.com those are all under an umbrella i would love to use in theory do i want to say those things every episode slash will we get in trouble if we use them i honestly don't know uh we're just asking questions um i would like

45:39Rob:to suggest a couple that may be less dicey for us to say on a weekly basis. Though why shy away from what we are? AmbientFog at gmail.com, the description of Jonah's office was really vital to me. HarpsichordHeroine at gmail.com is something that I thought about, perhaps. Harpsichord, of course, being Eric's nickname for Harper as well, so it gives us a nice history to the thing. Bone-dry Coldest Space, which is Jonah's exquisite martini order, which I will be adding to my vodka martini order. And then this is a going back to season one one, but charlieandbrass at gmail.com, which is these are the words that got Yasmeen flagged on the in-office IMs when they're like, you were talking about Charlie and Brass, which is code for Coke and hookers.

46:34Rob:And she was like, no, I was talking about a dog and interior decorating. But anyway, those are some ideas I had. I'm not in love with any of them necessarily. Jodi, do you have any other ideas splitting around?

46:45Jo:My remaining ones were very, again, fashion motivated. Eric'sKingleHat at gmail.com and also Harper'sPinstripes at gmail.com were very important to me.

46:57Jodi:She does love a pinstripe. She loves it.

46:59Jo:She's wearing so many little suit pieces. She's so small. I just love her.

47:05Jodi:One last one to throw into the ring. new elevated level of sobriety at gmail.com. It's a tough one because we do, I think we want to -

47:14Rob:We like to keep them a little bit concise.

47:16Jodi:We need them to be a little more concise, but we need them to be a certain level of at least crass, if not fully getting us in trouble.

47:24Jo:One that I logged that I was like, maybe this is a little too inhumane is I really loved when a new character whose name I have not yet registered, but who is Harper's subordinate, who she is fucking obviously. He says it might be worth a pause to consider why we're causing bleeds on our clients' brains after the stroke. And I thought client brain bleed sounded like a pretty good name for a band at least. At least. Yeah, I like client brain bleed.

47:56Rob:It's a little hard to say, I'm not real.

47:58Jo:It is kind of a dumb twister, unfortunately.

48:01Rob:Client brain bleed at gmail.com. Client brain bleed at gmail.com. Rob, where are you leaning?

48:06Jodi:I kind of think heroin harpsichord is where we should go. And it's setting the moody ambiance for the season. It's getting at the Harper elements, the heavy drug use. It's kind of all there in a way that I think it does speak to me.

48:20Jo:What do you think, Jodi? Where are you leaning? Rob, what was the first one you said?

48:25Jodi:Of the allowable or unallowable bracket? Jerking off as recession proof?

48:30Jo:It's pretty good. It's a lot to say.

48:34Jodi:it does feel like a universal truth you know it does say something about humanity in the way that industry says something about humanity heroin harpsichord's good my only concern

48:44Jo:is spelling heroin the correct way sure it's no e right and frankly harpsichord the correct way might also be a bit of a roll of the dice yeah i don't know if i don't know if eric has it spelled correctly in his contacts for Harper.

49:01Rob:I feel like usually when we do this, there's like one that jumps off a page and I'm not really feeling like we're all equally animated about something. So why don't we punt this for a week? Leave it up to the listeners. PrestigeTV at Spotify.com. If you guys have a favorite or if you want to suggest something that won't get us on a list with HR. But also you can suggest ones that would get us on a list, but we won't take them. We'll leave it to next week and we'll come back with a winner next week.

49:24Jo:We're just gating the fund for now. We're just gating. I don't know what that means. But yes, that's what we're doing. No, I get it.

49:30Jodi:This is also how we know Joe isn't a Harper type because like the impulsivity is just not there. You're actually playing the long game. You know, you're not just chasing these short term returns.

49:38Rob:I want us all to feel good about it. OK, I want to talk about this idea of fintechs as sort of the story of the hour. So reading reading the Bloomberg recap and also the Guardian recap was me trying to understand sort of like what is what is ripped from the headlines in the UK. Right. So like there's a couple of things going on here. there's the, you know, the rise of the Labour Party. I thought it was so interesting. The show has spent seasons seeding these Tory, you know, politicians into the mix. And then what happened in the UK is there was a landside victory for the Labour Party. Keir Stammer is the prime minister, et cetera, et cetera.

50:12Rob:And so they're like, JK, forget the character we've had since season two seeding as a potential future prime minister. It's the Labour Party instead. But what that does to sort of the season three idea of like wokeness and environmentally friendly sort of properties and stuff like that versus what Otto says about dropping the R word at work inside of this episode. So like the backlash to the Labour Party and how that's that's working inside of this. Any thoughts about that sort of like where we are politically? We get one of my favorite punchable jaws. I I absolutely love him. Edward Holcroft is here as Sebastian Stefanowicz, one of the conservative MPs.

50:55Rob:We see him briefly on the TV, but I'm like so excited because like that guy was born to be an industry and I'm so excited. What a jaw, you're right, what a jaw. He's the best. Politically, what are you sort of animated by the season, Jodi?

51:09Jo:Oh, I thought, Rob, did you have something? You were nodding. I felt like you were ready to get into it.

51:13Jodi:I would say just from the sense that I feel like this is one of those things other shows haven't quite caught up to yet. And maybe some of it is the difference in American politics versus UK politics. But this idea of like, again, like the reclaiming, quote unquote, of those kinds of words, like the way things are said behind closed doors, what qualifies as an HR violation and what doesn't in this in this particular world and this particular moment. I feel like the show is rolling with very well. Like the difference between a 2021 version of industry and a 2026 version of industry are so wildly apart.

51:45Jodi:And tapping into it in a way that reflects the politics of the country, but also reflects the way people are and will continue talking behind closed doors is such a delicate balancing act. I feel like the show's doing it really well.

51:57Jo:Well, and I think it's really impressive because you have to be predictive in some way to feel very present once an episode is airing or once a season is airing. And these seasons air pretty far apart for being such short seasons. And it is the rare show where that does not annoy me because I almost feel like I need the time to recover. You need a breather. I need a little time emotionally to like get myself back together, to learn how to love Harper again. You know, I just need some time and space from the show sometimes. And so like, you know, the season three aired, what, a year and a half ago?

52:31Jo:And even from season three to season four, the politics feel very different. And the sort of looseness with the disgusting language. And there are a lot of racial references, I think, flying around in this premiere. That, you know, Harper seems sort of resigned to. You know, the connection that she and Otto made was, in season three, founded by a mutual understanding that she was uniquely talented, reminded him of himself. He said that before they were ever even working together. But that also she'd be a great face and that it would look very progressive. the way that that language has evolved in this premiere of how outright he's being with her that she was just a face and demeaning her and feeling totally comfortable to do that in his stupid fucking robes is is a different kind of progression is a different kind of progressivist

53:35Rob:absolutely i thought yeah i thought it was interesting i feel like there was more this has always been something that the show has discussed eric talked about sort of like the way his mentor treated him racially and stuff like that. It's something that's been on the show's mind. But I think there were more references across every single storyline. Like even when we're over at Tender and they're like, a lot of Asians in that, you know what I mean? Like they're just sort of like every single storyline is touching on this. I would say there are more references inside of this one episode than maybe even across like the whole series.

54:02Rob:So I don't know what they're planning to do with that this season, but that is certainly something that, yeah, it does feel like the sort of anti-woke-woke sort of movement inside of this. I don't know. It's the rebound to the rebound, like backlash to the backlash of woke.

54:21Jodi:The moment that really got it for me is when Harper is sort of venting on the phone to Eric about the way she's being treated. And it's like, oh, it's just another angry black woman thing. And I think there's a lot of shows where that's where the dialogue stops. And what makes industry industry, as Eric says, but you are an angry, angry black woman. Like there's a confrontational aspect to the way the show discusses race. That's like, you can't pretend Harper is not an angry character like that. That is fundamental to her DNA and the way she presents on the show. And so it's like, why wouldn't you in a show like this call out the thing that could be called out with people who have this level of intimacy, who have this sort of relationship?

54:55Jodi:Like this isn't an office relationship anymore that can be patrolled by literally anyone other than them. And so it it makes sense within the world that they have created for themselves that he would say something like that.

55:06Jo:But then, but then it does its classic industry thing where it's like, these characters have said something wild. Now you, the audience consider it and where you land in it. Because when I, when in that interaction, I was like, oh yeah, well, Eric's pointing out, like you are an angry black woman and you lead with liking the way that you are. Then I was like, is Harper angry? She's a lot of things, but I feel like she's intense and she's aggressive, which is the word that's originally used.

55:35Jodi:Fair.

55:36Jo:But is she mad all the time? I don't think so. She's kind of numb, you know, like she's kind of deadened inside a lot and just like moving forward with she's a survivalist. Like that's, that is really always her leading instinct. And sometimes anger plays into that and sometimes it doesn't. But it was interesting for me as an audience member to like hear her be reduced to someone, to that by someone who does know all of her nuance and to wonder what she, because then it doesn't go a step further. She doesn't respond to it, but to wonder how she felt about that. Yes.

56:16Rob:What I also love inside of that conversation is her when when I saw that Eric's current love interest was like a young black woman I was like hmm and then Harper's like calls it out I'm like hmm and then and then he tries to

56:29Jo:get in front of it and it's like I'm not a fetishist no nothing to do with you of course not

56:35Rob:how could it possibly related to it all she owned those denim shorts before I met her it's it's interesting because Kenlyn gave an interview the actor who plays Eric gave an interview my guy, Miles from Lost, who I love so much, but he gave an interview to Variety where he was talking about the Eric-Harper relationship and he was saying how much it was about Eric's relationship with his own daughters, Harper, but it is also this other thing. That's what industry is. It's very messy.

57:03Jodi:Holy Sigmund Freud on all of that. The way in which all of these characters are and were literally fucking each other and are and were kind of fucking over each other and just kind of orbiting those two things at all times in different directions. It's almost hard to keep track of, frankly, but it leads to this really rich complexity in those relationships. That's what elevates it, right? It's the combination of all that stuff stewing together.

57:26Jo:And if I may, just because I have it in front of me, because a lot of that dynamic was revealed in season three, and interestingly, kind of with Eric and seeing his daughters in Harper, and he's kind of doing that in Yaz, and it's getting much murkier in season three. He tells Bill Adler, I believe, I used to see what my daughters could become and achieve in every young woman I came across. And Bill replies, and now you want to come across every young woman. And that's industry. And that's on industry. Yeah.

58:00Rob:On the fintech front, I am by no means an expert in this, in the world of financial tech, obviously. Not like you are on shorts. This is different. Clearly. I Googled something once. But we should say that, you know, for American audiences who don't know, there have been a lot of scandals around financial tech institutions in the UK specifically with Revolut and Wirecard. And once again, shout out, I believe it was Bloomberg for like breaking down the very specific ways in which they are nodding towards those very specific companies. Like, you know, for example, my new my new favorite name for a character on industry is Ferdinand Schwarzwald, who is the Austrian who Whitney has hired.

58:44Jodi:Not a crowd.

58:45Rob:Schwarzwald, by the way.

58:47Jo:So lightly sounds like the they reference like if a young woman wants to record her flatulence on a microphone and make a siren account out of it. That sounds like that could be the username.

58:58Rob:Schwarzwald. Schwarzwald. So Schwarzwald means black force. I don't usually get I don't I wouldn't necessarily get too granular on names except for the fact that Henry's last name is a muck. And now Yasmin's name is Lady Muck. Like that is just you know, they obviously do name stuff sometimes. But like just the the neon sign on the wall that we that we have here at tender, which says your future is a mountain. Right. And this is a common thing. Like when I worked at Vanity Fair, they put a they put a banner up that said, think like a startup. Like this is like a thing you see across many companies, but the the neon of it and the Canary Wharf location, like the waterfront location, they call it and stuff like that.

59:38Rob:Apparently is a is is a direct nod to I think it's Revolut where it said get shit done is what the neon sign said at Revolut. Well, it's like when someone has a sign in their kitchen that says eat.

59:49Jo:Sometimes you just need to be reminded what to do. What do I do when you enter a room?

59:53Rob:But I mean, as far as what's going to happen to tender, we should just say it did not go well for these various financial tech institutions that that that were sort of taken down in the UK in a huge scandalous fashion. And then also the other thing is that the UK Online Safety Act, which has been recently enacted, is is sort of being reflected here in terms of like checking the age of people who are logging on to Siren and all that sort of stuff like that. So that is like something that the UK is directly grappling with right now.

1:00:21Jodi:That's so charming, the idea of having actual fintech scandal. Like here we just have the fraud. It's just the fraud part. Without the consequences. We just shrug our shoulders and move on.

1:00:31Jo:I have a question about Tinder, which is that in this world, which is very similar to ours, does Tinder with an I not exist? Or have they just taken a big swing in naming their company after another very popular company?

1:00:48Rob:Something I was just going to note, Jodi, is that in your delicious accent, which I love, Tinder and tender sound much more similar than they do in my accent or the UK accent.

1:01:01Jodi:This is not a lawyer situation. This is everything is being lumped together somehow.

1:01:05Jo:Tender. Tinder and tender. With a really soft E.

1:01:09Jodi:You need to say it exactly like that every time, please.

1:01:12Rob:You need to say it how you would normally say it. Tinder 2.0. All right. Anything else, Rob Honey, that you want to address inside of this episode?

1:01:22Jodi:Two quick things. One, on the sociopolitical front, all actors got to work. You know, they're all looking for the next job. They're all looking for the next gig. Being the body double for Donald Trump on a golf course is a tough beat. You know, it's not what any I don't think many people want that particular job. But again, somebody's got to do it.

1:01:39Jo:Well, and if you have the build, you know, if you've got it, why not make that cash?

1:01:45Rob:Why not make that cash? You look good in a red hat, I guess.

1:01:48Jodi:I also did a quick Google Trends search on Sesquipedalian to see how many people like me were Googling it. Huge spike, as you would expect. A nice industry-sized spike. But more perplexingly, there was an even bigger spike in 2023. So if you out there have any knowledge as to what would have been the cause or the source of Sesquipedalian entering the lexicon or reentering the lexicon really in 2023? I would love the answer to that. Prestigetv at Spotify.com, if you please.

1:02:20Jo:And given that I can't even say Tinder, like that is enough for, that's enough to give me a bit of a brain bleed as well. Also, absolute LOL that that word means long-winded, you know, right.

1:02:33Rob:Okay. Okay. Pot kettle and all. Exactly. Jodi, anything else you want to flag inside of this episode?

1:02:40Jo:I just, you know, I love and hate these people. And I find myself at the end of this premiere so excited to watch the interaction of relationship between our sort of remaining original characters. Harper, Yaz. I loved Yaz's new straight hair when she stomped into her dinner party with her place cards and her power double-brifed leather blitzers. Hazer at gmail.com. Just want to throw that one in at the end. One possibility, like just knowing what could be to come and how fast this show moves. And also, I mean, I think the standout line for me is when Eric shows up and he and Harper are, you know, talking about going into business together, getting both of their names on the door.

1:03:38Jo:Great idea. Um, and she says, you came and he says, you called these two. I swear, I swear.

1:03:48Rob:Um, it's important to me. It's important to Sigmund Freud. It's important to all of us that you email us, PrestigeV at Spotify.com to explain, uh, the ins and outs of financial, uh, buzzwords. We don't promise that we'll understand them, but I'd like to hear what you have to say about them. Uh, UK politics, um, harpsichords versus piano forts. I could not get a clean answer on that one. And anything else, Jodi, I'm so thrilled that we get to do this. Thank you for letting us do this with you this season. It's a thrill and an honor.

1:04:19Jo:Thank you. Thank you for doing it here with me. I'm just, you know, I look forward to whatever kind of backstabbing situation we're going to find ourselves in as colleagues and friends and what kind of companies we might start together and just how this is all going to go.

1:04:34Rob:if you would like to email us and let us know which industry characters you think we are I'd be curious to hear how the listeners think about it and if it changes and morphs throughout the season as we continue to backstab each other

1:04:47Jo:I did say over on Plug on We're Obsessed my other podcast where Nora and I did some 26 ins and outs that seducing people for revenge is in for 2026 is it? yeah it is you don't have to do it but it is on trend and that feels very, very industry-esque, especially this season with all the espionage.

1:05:10Rob:As soon as Harper had sex with Whitney, I was like, I can't wait for her to fuck him over in one way or another. Oh, I'm so excited for that relationship. Very excited for the downfall of Whitney, whatever happens.

1:05:19Jodi:Honestly, Joe, is all I could think about when you were talking about industry as a show coming into its power. It is really standing there with this, it's strapped up right here in episode one. How dare we wait this long?

1:05:29Jo:Thank you. Thank you, Rob. you know we talk about industry burning through plot um and like sort of not showing a lot of restraint in some ways but the sheer fact that it is taken until season four for harper stern to peg someone is like okay well they're holding back some punches pegging this early at gmail.com

1:05:49Rob:pegging this late at gmail.com something you know uh pegging is never earlier late it arrives right what it needs to. At yahoo.com. At yahoo.com.

1:06:01Jodi:Gandalf into pegging, question mark. You know, it really opens up a whole can of worms.

1:06:05Rob:Restrainedpegging at gmail.com. Oh, genteelpegging at gmail.com. Okay, we'll be back. Rob and I will be back later in the week to talk about The Pit, episode two. Duff it. And it's a great time to be on the Prestige Sheevy feed. Thank you so much. We'll see you soon. Bye.

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