‘Industry’ S4E7: Tainted Love

13:29Rob:He said, believe in us. He said, believe in us one last time. What more do you ask for, Rob?

13:32Jodi:I mean, really, I have no notes whatsoever. A guy who tells the truth every chance he gets. But the fact that these two are just like not in communication, even down to the fact that when Yaz tenders her own resignation, if you'll pardon it, doesn't bother to tell Henry about the fact that that's coming whatsoever.

13:49Jo:I mean, at the point at which you find yourself screaming, I am a good person, one inch from your wife's face, it might be a sign that this past of insisting that everyone believes you're a good person is right. You're doing the right thing. You're in a good place. And just on the wardrobe front, the fact that they had him in that demeaning tender t-shirt for the entire conversation was just perfect.

14:13Jodi:Well, on that line though, the I am a good person and the world shall tell that back to me. Otherwise, what am I doing here? is just like an amazing bit of obliviousness and self-awareness rolled up into one. In a way, I honestly find like pretty admirable. I don't know how you get to that exact place, but really only Henry can do it.

14:32Rob:Well, it's so Henry.

14:34Jo:Because his whole thing is he has enough self-awareness to know that he should be good. Like that this is the thing we should aim for. And there aren't many characters like that in industry. Like we really do not see Yaz or Harper aiming for that. When they are aiming for moral, they are simply doing something with their eyes so that other people will believe that they are moral or empathetic. Henry genuinely wants to be good without any of the hard work to back it up because he's never had any consequences. And it's an interesting dynamic.

15:04Rob:On that language front that you guys, that you both raised so beautifully earlier, I thought the juxtaposition of one of my new favorite characters, just someone to really admire, Kevin Rall, played by the great Pip Torrance, who runs this thinly veiled version of The Sun for the Norton company. um he calls yaz a hard bird and then later in the episode she tells harper i'm so fucking soft i'm so so soft right so hard bird versus so soft and those both of those things can be true about yaz at the same time this idea and something that marissa abella has said in a bunch of interviews is this idea of yaz like cosplaying power this season especially here at the end um i do need a full shoulder pad report from Jodie Walker in a second, but like something I really, I don't have to approve of her actions in this episode to admire them.

15:59Rob:And I admire the way in which she sort of Walter White-esque gets herself out, you know, finds her own parachute. I really feel like she, there's a version of this story in which she straps Henry to the parachute with her. If he said, help, what are we going to do? You're necessary to me, help me. People do care about what happens to you and me and us. Let's figure this out together because she uses the weapons that are in his arsenal, his family's media company, you know, and the fact that she uses his like tools for her own salvation leaves him twisting in the wind and we'll see what happens if anything happens to him.

16:40Rob:The fact that she uses the things that were weaponized against her last season, which was the Norton Media Group and all of that, the fact that she is wielding so much power in this episode because she's, I mean, with, with Harper's consent, because it benefits Harper as well, but she's using Harper as a tool, which means that like Harper, then you goes to Jim's editor Burgess. So Burgess is doing basically Yasmin's bidding. What happens with Lisa is Yasmin's bidding, right? Henry and Winnie is all like Yaz's arc, like architecture design. And so like, I'm just, I like her finding her power, even if I'm like, I don't approve of your actions, but I approve of you finding control and power where you can when you felt vulnerable and powerless previously.

17:31Rob:Jodi, what do you think of Yaz's moves here?

17:33Jo:Well, what we have here is a naturally born PR girly who was trying for too long to be a finance girly. It has, of course, you know, when she was going comms, when she was being put in like head of comms, we were like, what is happening here? She is not comms, but this is what Yasmin is good at. It is in this case, what she is especially good at when it serves her. When you are in, you know, public relations, you are in fact working for other people. But when she's sharpening her skills because she needs them to work for her, it makes a lot of sense. And Yasmin's strength that she sort of calls on sometimes but refuses to acknowledge because unlike Henry, she lacks so much self-awareness unless completely pushed into a corner.

18:20Jo:She's a sponge. Like it's what people have always admired and been jealous of about her. She speaks six different languages. She is a natural networker. She brings people into her orbit and keeps them there. And if she could see that as a strength instead of her burden to bear and call on when she has to, maybe she could use it for good. But mostly she will use it to get out of the bad situation she's gotten herself into.

18:49Jodi:Yeah, it's clear by the end of this episode, she's starting to at least understand that part of herself as an incredible asset. And it's kind of pitching herself to Jennifer Bevin as like, you know, let me know if I can help get you out of future jams like this, to which she's basically told, go fuck yourself. I didn't want you to do any of this in the first place.

19:05Rob:Yeah, you don't want a government job anyway. Come on. She certainly does not. Yeah.

19:09Jodi:But like in this whole episode, it's like a race of who can tell the best, most compelling story the fastest. And Yaz wins. Like she wins because she is driven, because she knows how to do it because she knows what buttons to push. And like, that's hard to knock, even if it is, as you said, Joe, like put to ends that we may not ultimately agree.

19:27Rob:And, you know, and like she herself is, let's talk about this Norton, this conversation she has with Norton, a few conversations, but like the one on the phone specifically where she gets off and she's like genuinely grace-stricken, I think, with what has happened here. I think a question I saw a lot of people asking after this episode is like, we understand why Yasmin did what she did. Why didn't Norton, Henry's uncle, like throw him under the bus this way? And I thought it was interesting that phone conversation where they sound so much more like, you know, like defeated parents, like a mother and father at the end of their rope with a kid who just like keeps fucking up and keeps fucking up.

20:04Rob:And is Yaz spinning like a very specific narrative and using language that she knows that Norton has like concerns about and will respond to? Yes. But at the same time, I think that Norton, And his reaction to me was more, the way I can explain it to myself is that he's like, let's have him hit rock bottom and see if that's something that works for him. What do you think, Rob?

20:27Jodi:I think, I mean, we get on the previously on this flashback to the Henry line of like, I'm pretty sure my wife doesn't love me. And I think there's a lot in this episode to dispute that fact. I think Yasmin does care about Henry and perhaps love him in a certain kind of way. But as we talked about, she's kind of been aware since at least episode two of this season that she is on her own. Ever since Henry's like, but what if we had a kid to solve all of our problems? She's like, well, maybe I need to find my way out of basically any jam we get into. And so she's doing things that are damaging to him, obviously, that will be painful to him.

21:00Jodi:But I think she's also put forth like a pretty reasonable effort to get him out of like, the perpetual bender that Whitney has him in. And there really is something to the parallel, this guy who has struggled with substance abuse, who's just kind of like chasing Whitney on this high around the world to save a company that barely even exists anymore. Like there is a certain kind of spiraling quality that's echoing that where Henry is enabling Whitney in so many ways. And Yaz has tried to pull him out of it by giving him a dose of reality. He didn't want that. And so is this not like the harshest and coldest dose of reality of all, which is to, you know, maybe face a single consequence.

21:36Jo:Perhaps. But when you put yourself in that savior position, like Yaz has and like Uncle Alexander kind of has, you then have to protect yourself most in order to save this other person who is putting themselves in harm's way, in which case you are ultimately sacrificing them as well. It's, I think that she cares about Henry, but I think that when a love starts like that, it's sort of impossible to know what love is and what's, and what's driving anything. Certainly nothing is selfless. No, absolutely not.

22:13Rob:And I do think it's interesting that part of her pitch to Norton among like many moments inside this episode is, you know, talking about the family, I'm putting the family first, right? And does that feel like it's a contradiction when you're, you know, leaving your husband out to drive, throwing him under the bus, whatever you prefer. But like, I think it goes back to this line that we hear from Wilhelmina in this episode, which is, has shown up in every single season of industry, which is the institution doesn't suffer, right? This is an Adlerism in season one that Harper repeats back to Adler in season two, that Eric repeats back to Adler in season three as he is fucking him over.

22:54Rob:And Wilhelmina is like, here's the, put it on the merch at Pierpoint. This is, this is what we do. But like this idea, you know, what are the various institutions that we're protecting? Who, like, Ricky Martin with a Y, his priority is protecting, you know, the PM against any damage. So we got to throw Lisa under the bus here. And like, if Norton's mission is to protect the larger sense of the family and in doing so in protecting their larger reputation, in needing Henry to hit rock bottom here, is there a way you can sort of square those two ideas? What do you think, Jodi?

23:30Jo:No, I don't know. These people are driving me around in circles and trying to, I mean, all I could think was like, I want to know Wilhelmina's story. I want to know how she. I want to know her McDonald's order, you know, like what was she working on? I think we got it. That was like a quarter pounder, right? Oh, I know for a fact that was a crispy Diet Coke. I can tell. From the Foley art. Yes. You see, I think, and there's always a chance that you get behind the scenes and it's just as unseemly. But like, she follows this tag sort of of the institution doesn't suffer, but to see her come out so light and airy from these people spinning out of control on the verge of going to prison, on the verge of their families going into financial ruin or on the verge of great successes.

24:20Jo:And she's just like, oh yeah, I just leveraged you for a deal that we were making. And this is my like, congratulations, you know, double cheeseburger. And in another phone call, we see her in like her very beautiful bathroom doing her skincare. And I just wanted to know how you operate in this world in a way that much like Rob Mahoney seems, you know, very balanced, very well adjusted. And, you know, maybe how we could get that messaging and maybe that therapist to Yaz and Harper.

24:54Jodi:I don't know how I feel about being the Wilhelmina of this podcast. And - Oh, you should feel very good about that, Rob.

25:00Rob:You love a crispy diet Coke, Rob.

25:01Jodi:I mean, that much is certainly true. And, you know, maybe in my own way, I am like the greedy McDonald's consuming American, you know, just counterpointed to all of this. So we are who we are.

25:14Rob:You mentioned, Jodi, you mentioned Wilhelmina's, lovely bathroom. I feel like this is as good a time as any to give us the fashion report on this episode. What would you like to, who's got the most powerful look? Whose shoulder pads are doing the most to communicate their sort of level of boss bitchiness to us?

25:31Jo:Well, something I've really been enjoying about this season is the way that we see Harper repeat her outfits. It's not something that's done in television a lot. And when it is, it usually has meaning. And like, it really conveys that this is a young woman who has gotten some really important pieces into her wardrobe. And just like any other normal woman would repeat them over the course of several months. So this sort of like neoprene corset top that's very powerful that she's wearing at the beginning of the episode, I think we've seen her wear another time. Love that she ended up out at the club in like a business halter top.

26:14Jo:It was like a double-breasted halter top. And you mentioned the, you know, the meeting with Kevin and now Yaz in her PR girly era and really, in her sort of hard bird era, like, but also soft. Also, you know, being very soft to Jenny. This is a friendship. We're family. I think hard bird era is so aspirational, honestly. Absolutely. Am I not wearing a turtleneck today? I'm trying. But the way that they seem to be conveying this hard bird, but sort of hiding it with a softness thing is that she is wearing a cropped double-breasted blazer, which is not something you see a lot. It's also like quite a rounded shoulder on that cropped blazer.

26:57Rob:She was softening it right up. I also think Jenny pairs her blazer with like a long pleated skirt. Like this is her particular look, which I thought was really interesting. So. I'm not an astronaut. I don't need an astronaut. Audiences have spoken. Project Hail Mary is an awe-inspiring masterpiece. So, I met an alien. If you've fallen out of love with going to the movies, this one will bring you back. Hang on! Ryan Gosling in the first must-see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary, rated PG-13, may be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters March 20th.

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28:45Rob:On the politics front, on like Lisa, Jenny, Ricky Martin, and then we get the return, for me, long anticipated and awaited return of Edward Holcroft of Sebastian Stefanovic, someone whose politics I do not agree with, but an actor who I really admire. Nope, nope, it's not for me. If you say so, Joe, I don't know.

29:03Jodi:I see some similarities.

29:05Rob:Yeah, you know me. But Rob, how do you feel about how much politics has taken over this season? Or do you anticipate it as a show leaning even further into that going forward? What do you think?

29:18Jodi:I like this portrayal of it because I think this episode in this season tapped into some interesting things on the political side as far as what naivety looks like. And the idea, again, we've been talking about truth and messaging all throughout the season and this episode. Ultimately, the things that are levied against Lisa are the things that Jennifer actually did. And so it's like the truth is weaponized to an extent. It's just pointed in a different direction as far as who's held accountable for that truth. And I think accusing Lisa as she is in this episode of being herself like a little too romantic about the political process, I think is fair.

29:51Jodi:Like she was naive enough to deputize Jennifer in the capacity she did. And that was ultimately her undoing, even as Jennifer herself was naive enough to both get played and be resentful of the way she was played and then resent the fact that someone saved her from being played in the first place. So there's a lot to unpack with this whole storyline, but I like the way it kind of nestles into the world of manipulation that industry treads on so well.

30:16Jo:Well, and it makes it so that being romantic in this world is kind of just having good intentions. Like these really were not women who intended to do anything wrong. These are people who were manipulated by what? Oh, what does Jenny say about? She says journalism shouldn't be about myth making for an aristocratic class, which sure. Could anyone think of that line on the spot? No, but quite a banger. Really, really got me really got me to think. But I love how Kevin's like, what a fucking idiot.

30:58Rob:He's exactly what it is. Are you kidding me? What a romantic. What a dummy.

31:02Jo:No wonder she's in this position. No wonder she's landed herself here. And then to see him admiring Yasmin for the way that she's about to twist this narrative, twist this truth, twist this story, it is a harsh look, an unromantic look at reality.

31:20Jodi:I do love the way that Jennifer is someone who has the survival instincts enough to set the meeting and then just doesn't have the stomach to see literally any of it through, but also doesn't even stop to consider what the repercussions of having the meeting would be. And I was kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop with that, but I guess there is none, or at least there was none this week.

31:38Rob:I mean, we've got one more episode to go. We certainly do.

31:41Jodi:Winning in episode seven is probably not like the safest place to be.

31:44Rob:That is why I'm very worried. And we'll get, we'll come back to Harper and Yaz, but like this kumbaya moment in the penultimate episode of the season, tough.

31:53Jo:Oh, I would call it tentative and mostly driven by Molly.

31:57Rob:Yeah, really, really tough. I do want to call out, so like Edward Holcroft in this role, you know, he shows up on this, you know, TV program and Pip Torrens, who was incredible on The Crown, kind of misused on Succession, but is like just like an absolute closer of an actor. Like, I actually don't think you see these kinds of actors into your show if you're not going to like really use them. And with only one episode left, I just it really feels like an as yet to be greenlit season five sort of seating of various characters that we can maybe keep our eye on. And so if we've got the tabloid editor and the reform party politician, like, you know, how much are we going to move into the slimier parts of these industries as we go forward into a future season?

32:49Rob:I don't have an answer to that, but it kind of feels just all based on the actors. It kind of feels like that might be where they're going.

32:54Jodi:Well, even just with the inevitable creep of this story is like the three ways in which we're zooming out are on politics, on the journalistic aspects as well. And as we kind of are learning more and more about like what's in it for Russian operatives to be involved in a company like Tender, which I would say. Datasets.

33:10Jo:It's all about data sets.

33:12Jodi:All of a sudden, that big old list of who was paying who for what porn payment plans feels like a particularly squeezable enterprise for our Russian friends.

33:21Jo:I think that this episode, even though it was a lot, as Rob noted, I think what I really liked about it at the end was that the politics of this season and the sort of overwhelming British media corporation of this season finally clicked into place for me. I was kind of like, I think I understand what's going on a little bit. Still real loose on the finance. There was a moment when we go back to Tao Stern after it does seem like, you know, Tinder's going under, the stock's going to plummet, whatever. And Harper goes, I'm glad to see we're all speaking the same language. And at the exact same time in my head, I was like, I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

34:02Rob:I just have to track like how agitated is Quabin when he's erasing things on the white board. And then I understand like basically what's going on. Grinning ear to ear in this moment. He was trying. And that was helpful to me.

34:14Jodi:Exposition quapana. I mean, really, this is what the whiteboard was deployed for.

34:17Rob:Exactly. Okay, Jodi, hard-hitting question for you. Is Whitney dead or is he alive? What do you think?

34:28Jo:This is tough. We just got to, you know, we're the ones who make the bets. So I just got to make a bet. I think he's alive. It just, to me, I know he got the big threats. Mm-hmm. I know escape is not an option. It's not. As well conveyed to him by several scarier men than he. But there was something about him that still made me think that he could escape or that he could be sucked into the larger organization and not that he was killed and they left his phone behind as a fun little clue. What do you think?

35:07Rob:Well, I would say, I don't think industry is the kind of show where at the beginning of an episode, he's like, if you see me without this phone, I'm dead. And then we see him without his phone and he's dead. Like, I would be really disappointed if that was the case. What do you think, Rob?

35:19Jodi:I think he's still alive. I think a couple of things. For one, this episode overall makes a very compelling case that to whatever extent Whitney was ever a, like, I'm three moves ahead of everyone game player, that time has passed. And now he's doing, like, whatever he needs to do to get through today, basically. He doesn't strike me as someone who has, like, a lot of rope to plan ahead beyond the moves he's already made. So I just don't think he had, like, a separate exit strategy with a different phone and a different removable SIM card. So I don't think he's done it on his own. And I don't think, not to take the Russians at their word here, but it does kind of suit them to keep him alive to face the consequences of everything that happens with Tender.

35:58Jodi:It's like, right, if you can pin the whole Tender quagmire on this like opportunistic American guy who's committing all this fraud as opposed to Russian interference, like that's a pretty compelling story to tell in its own way. So I think he's kind of ducked out a side door to go somewhere. But I think he is without question coming back for the finale and will probably face some pretty heinous consequences himself.

36:19Jo:Oh, yeah. When he's in like the big suburban of death and he's like, so if Tinder dies, I die. And they're like, you wish, babe. Absolutely not. Escape is a fantasy, even the escape of death. Like you have gotten yourself into this one. And I love, I mean, I hate to say that I love these guys, but I love... Oh, the Russians? Yeah, the Russians. Oh, yeah. Love them. The line of just act like the great lie of your life is not that different from its only truth. You're world class at that performance. Now find the version of yourself who remembers it. And this is so mirrored to things we have heard Whitney tell Henry.

37:00Jo:And now these big scary guys are telling this to Whitney. And it's just like, Can you believe that when you are a person who uses other people as tools, that you might be a tool to someone else? No. Can you believe? It can never happen. That the world might work like that?

37:20Rob:Here's a question. Now, inside of an episode where several people are mocked for being too romantic, I'm going to bring this romantic notion to the table. is there any version of this story where Whitney kicked Jonah out of tender so like publicly that uh he could not possibly be blamed for anything that that goes on here that there was like a way to kind of save this guy who Max Minghella has said in interviews like Jonah actually does matter to him. So like, was that horrible knifing actually salvation of some kind? No.

38:01Jo:Okay. No. Rob, go on. Rob the romantic, go on.

38:07Jodi:As someone, look, I just have no choice but to try to believe in male friendship at this point. Sure, yeah.

38:13Jo:You gotta have a life wrapped out of here.

38:15Jodi:It's really all I got. And Henry and Whitney are not, you know, the most compelling evidence on that particular point. No. So I will, for one, I'll say I am susceptible to Whitney's whole deal. Like I find him to be such a captivating character. And like, you know, he's a snake, but I will watch him slither around all day. And so if you tell me there is just the slightest, softest underbelly for his old pal Jonah, where he did kick him overboard. Yeah, so he could continue to do what the Russians asked in terms of the bidding within tender, but also to save his like, maybe only one friend in the world.

38:50Jodi:I am romantic enough to believe that notion, Joe. But this is how I end up in a Russian body bag somewhere.

38:56Jo:I am realistic enough to believe that Whitney would try to sell that story to Jonah at some point if it served him. Something, yeah, sure, fair enough.

39:04Rob:Something that I sort of did a double take across various interviews, both Kit Harington and Max Minghella have talked about the way that Henry views Whitney as a father figure. And I was like, that's super weird given their sexual dynamics. But then I remembered the, like, when Ghost Dad shows up at the beginning of the season, there was a real vibe between the two of them. So I'm like, okay, I guess if, like, if Henry is just, like, snuggling Yaz as if she's his mom and, like, you know, like, letting a father figure of a kind watch him shower, then this is just where we're living inside of this season of industry.

39:41Rob:Oh, Henry.

39:42Jodi:Henry, you poor, naive, chiseled fail lord. Like, can I tell top from bottom? Well, I guess in literally every sense. I mean, come on. It's just, it's a disaster, everything that's going on with him. And frankly, he has dug his own grave.

39:56Jo:Yeah, literally, maybe, we'll see. I think that even in this episode, as we see like Henry's whole worldview falling apart, his life falling apart, his Tinder stock not doing well, He still is looking at Whitney in this sort of like admiring, fascinated way. And it is that kind of fascination you have with your dad where you're like, how does he do that? How does he lift that? How does he turn the lawnmower on? Whatever. With this guy, I likewise find fascination with this type of person. I love a cult leader. I love a scammer. I want to understand how their mind works because my mind can't work like that.

40:42Jo:And when you see Henry over and over being like, no one would ever think of this as the solution. How is your mind? How do you think like this in this circumstance? And then just going along with it, even though it is clearly sort of abnormal. and Whitney, you know, as a lover of scammers, like it always brings to mind Elizabeth Holmes. And there is this idea in this, or these types, Billy McFarland, whoever. Is that why the turtleneck is black today? Yes, that is why I have worn my own Elizabeth Holmes scamming turtlenecks. Yes, love it. Red lip comes next week. Is that there are these people who they have the passion, they have the drive.

41:29Jo:if that you think like if they could just dedicate it to something worthwhile could they do it or is the lie part of it is like needing to follow what's not real and needing to make it up part of it and that's why Whitney in this situation can kind of just keep swimming through and Henry is a spiraling out of control I want to take us to Harper and Yaz um I have two

41:53Rob:favorite line deliveries in this episode um from harper it's what memo um

42:05Jo:it's so good as i was writing it in my notes i was like how do i how do i catalog how this

42:12Rob:sounded i went with really long ellipsis yeah what memo uh really good and then for yeah as a a much more serious note. When she says to Harper at the bar and there once, you know, their big season three blowout was at the kitchen Island, but a similar sort of like sitting two women sitting at the bar together, uh, facing each other positioning or flipped. The positions are flipped this season, but like, it's a very similar sort of setup, um, to that season three slap fest that happened. But, um, when yeah says, and it's Marissa Bella's delivery, I kind of grew up at someone's mercy and I just felt so sick and so upset.

42:57Rob:And this is as much a confession as Yaz has ever given about what, you know, at the, at the very end of season three, we get that the, you know, the woman who she has employed and then fires immediately after who is just basically like something bad happened to you. And I understand. And Yaz breaks down, but doesn't say, it doesn't, you know, doesn't confirm it or say anything, but watching it, you could understand that she was abused by her father. We get, you know, the great Claire Forlani here for one episode to make our skin crawl about it once again. but this confession, um, as sort of, um, mealy mouthed as the language is the emotion behind it.

43:40Rob:I kind of grew up at someone's mercy and the way in which Harper receives it is just this incredible degree of intimacy, which I, um, and, and, and her insistence that she feel necessary versus her father screaming in her face right before he dies, that she's spectacularly fucking useless, You know, just like this, this core wound for her, the way in which Harper is offering her a little bit of healing. But at the same time, my question to you, Jodi, is like, is this not almost exactly the move we saw Yaz make at the end of last season with Rob? this like bid for intimacy, this bid for like you and I understand each other better than anyone else.

44:19Rob:When she says she killed her father, you know, this sort of like confessional, close intimacy, penultimate episode sort of maneuver from Yaz. So how, how sincere is she always in these moments? Um, and then what's to prevent those moments from sticking, do you know?

44:39Jo:oh well i think what could make them stick is a good deal of therapy is what is making them not stick is sort of leaving these intimate true real vulnerable feelings unexamined and running away from the scary and painful fact of them at the beginning of that sort of conversation at the bar Yaz says to Harper, kind of like laughing, how did we get here? Like, how did we get in this place? And Harper says, what drives anyone anywhere? Lack, need. And it's like, first of all, what a worldview. That's tough, but also true. And, you know, Yasmin can say, I just want to be necessary. And Rob can make her feel necessary.

45:25Jo:And Harper can make her feel necessary. but those aren't the people she wants to feel necessary to. She's chasing the wound of her father, telling her that she is unnecessary and seeking out people who make her feel a similar kind of unnecessary that maybe she can win over. And that person isn't robbed and she watched him scratch off that lotto ticket in that gas station and that moment of vulnerability was never gonna stick. Yeah. Unfortunately.

45:52Jodi:I think in these relationships, you're absolutely right, Jodi. Like the ones that she wants are not the ones that she can reasonably have given everyone's emotional bandwidth. And with the way Yaz operates, like I think intimacy is bait a lot of times. It is like a way to get a certain level of closeness. And then once that line is crossed beyond the pale of what she is willing to actually entertain, she rejects, rejects, rejects, burns down everything, moves on to the next person or the next opportunity.

46:18Rob:Well, that's I think that's a bit more mercenary than how I view her. But like, I think she really means it in the moment. Yeah, I think so too. And I don't think it's like, I think I mostly agree with what you're saying. I just would like turn down the calculation on it slightly. And I think it's just sort of like when it gets uncomfortably close or when she feels out of control. For sure. You know?

46:37Jo:Well, and it's why people perceive Yasmin like that as this like tease or man killer or whatever. It's accidental bait. She means it when she says it and she needs the people that she's saying it to, but it's too, it's much scarier to live in something than to say something. And she cannot live in the reality of what she is sometimes able to confess.

47:01Rob:So that line, which I absolutely loved of like, we're here forever, even if we can't be, is just like, uh, absolutely sliced, sliced into me.

47:09Jo:Like, girls, you can be, you can do it.

47:14Rob:Um, Rob, on a scale to one to 10, how much were you thinking about, um, the iconic Faith and Buffy bad girls dance or Buffy the Empire Slayer when we saw these two on the dance floor.

47:25Jodi:I mean, how could you not? And of course, because industry did what Buffy could not in 1999 or whatever year that was, which is put these two in bisexual lighting. You know, like let's really make the subtext text and then just have them make out just in case you don't get it.

47:40Rob:But it was like so like tender. Not again. It was very tender. Pun unintended, but it was just sort of like, it wasn't like that kind of like hedonistic shit that henry and whitney were doing and it wasn't you know it was just sort of like and this idea of like i'll take care of you and you take care of me for this i love that i'm just like my heart it's another exchange of intimacy that you don't have to stick to it's a soft kiss on the dance floor tonight and it's tonight we'll take care of each other tonight. And then we get, so this brings me back to, I want to, obviously I want to talk about the music in this episode.

48:19Rob:We end this episode, you know, the Daft Punk has come back in and then the absolutely 80s banger, The Promise by When in Rome, which gets cut off at the beginning of the episode. So the episode starts with the Daft Punk track and then we get the absolutely iconic opener for When in Rome's I Promise. And I was like, so ready to bop out to I Promise because I love that song. Truly your head is like already bop. Oh yeah, here we go. And then it just cuts out because like that's not, yeah, that's not what Henry and Yaz have. But in this moment for at least, maybe not forever, but for right now, Yaz and Harper have that at the end of this episode and the positions are reversed where Yaz is sort of like snuggled up and leaning on Harper the way that Henry was leaning on her.

49:13Rob:And then this absolute banger comes back in. So we want to talk about the music in this episode as a whole, but like who wants to take the floor on talking about Daft Punk or any of the other 80s tracks that are inside this episode?

49:25Jo:I feel confident that it's Rob. Yeah, I think so.

49:27Jodi:Well, they're all over the place. Yeah. You know, not to get ahead of ourselves, Joe, but we were entertaining the idea of like, how would we insert our own favorite 80s banger into the show and where? and I had to like triple quadruple check that the 80s bangers I had intended are not just already in the show. Because it's like, oh.

49:44Jo:Complete same and like three of them more. And I was like, oh.

49:48Jodi:Inescapable. It's like, don't you even think about trying to put Iran in the show because Iran is already in this show.

49:53Rob:Literally in this episode. Very on the nosily in this episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

49:57Jodi:And I find those to be for me like some of the most successful deployments of the 80s tunes yet are not just like, oh, this is a great synth track where we're going to pull like the instrumental beginning to underscore a scene. but industry loves like a little cheeky, slightly counterpoint, like a little too happy for whatever is being shown on screen, subtext inversion. And like, honestly, what better decade to turn to?

50:19Rob:Yeah. So in this episode, we get a cover of Heroes by Big Ben Tribe. We get Iran, Flock of Seagulls, like as Whitney, like over Whitney. Incredible. We get the Enya that Rob, number one Enya lover mentioned earlier, only time. You know what?

50:36Jodi:I will wear that cape.

50:38Rob:Anything about this specific Daft Punk track that you want to highlight? This is Veritas Quo, which is also very disco, I guess is the play on words there, which is supposed to be a bit of like Quo Vadis. But like anything, I don't know if they've used Daft Punk before, but like I thought it was used really well in this episode.

50:57Jodi:Well, it's just like impossible to hear that track. And have either of you seen the Daft Punk anime movie Interstellar 5555?

51:05Jo:Yes, I have.

51:05Jodi:Do you know what I mean?

51:06Jo:not. I have not told me about it.

51:08Jodi:I wish I could tell you the plot of it. I'm not sure that anyone making the movie is familiar with the plot of it. It is like a mushroomy haze of a movie, understandably under the circumstances. But like this particular like, series of notes is just like so transportive for time and place for me of like, Oh, you are in a college dorm room watching Interstellar 5555. So I don't know if that's the appropriate place for more of a cocaine show than a hallucinogenic show, but I guess all of your drug use can overlap if you try hard enough.

51:37Jo:Yeah, if you really try, I think they can. I think on this, I just have to quickly say about this scene, Marissa Abella does something so specific with the character of Yaz when you can tell she's thinking about cocaine. She literally, like, when she says, do you want to go out? Female friendship. She, like, she has this way of, like, sniffing her nose to the side, and it's like, she's ready to take cocaine. I just twitching in anticipation. She twitches her nose and sniffs. And it happened a lot in season two. And I just love it.

52:11Jodi:Well, also, if it weren't clear enough that Yaz and I are living in different worlds, when she says she wants to go do the stuff that Lorde sang about, here I was thinking about what Lorde sings about is like navel gazing about how all the people in your life think you're either too much or too little at all times. But like, I'm more of a melodrama guy myself. So I don't know like which album she's tapped into.

52:30Rob:Well-adjusted, romantic, Rob Mahoney.

52:32Jodi:I don't think that's what that album's about. I don't think that's a well-adjusted one, but thank you, Joe.

52:38Rob:80s needle drops. So we decided before Pod that we would each pick an 80s banger that they have not used yet and either say where we would have put it in a scene we've already seen or how you imagine you could use it in a future scene or a scene that didn't make it but maybe happened behind the scenes or something like that. The vibe this season, the Ultravox went in Rome Pet Shop Boys, like new wave European 80s energy is incredible. That was not the assignment. It could be anything from the 80s. But Jodi Walker, what did you pick?

53:11Jo:I had so many thoughts going into this exercise. And like Rob, many of them upon a quick Google were revealed to me to have already been in the show, which eats through music like it eats through plot, especially 80s songs. But my mind just kept circling around Fleetwood Mac. And I finally got down. And I, you know, I thought about some ironic choices. And I don't know if sound-wise this works with what they've been doing. But I do feel like the Harper and Yaz relationship could really be coming down to a very unkind deployment of Silver Square.

53:52Rob:That's too powerful, Jodi. That's way too powerful. That is overwhelming. That's a great idea. You will never get away from the sound of the woman that loved you. Wow. I can feel it. I can feel it. It's coming. Yeah. Okay. Some Goldust Woman sort of action here for Yaz as well. Ron Mahoney, what did you pick?

54:13Jodi:I did go a little ironic. I couldn't help myself. For me, it was I would love to see the Bengals' Manic Monday in this show somewhere. And for me, the deployment was in the slow zoom of Yaz's realization that she has been staying and banging in the Hitler room. That's when I want to hear the plinking piano intro or we can just go straight to chorus on Manic Monday there.

54:33Rob:But yeah, when you see Hitler's name on a painting, you're like, oh, it's just a just another Manic Monday.

54:40Jo:I'm also just realizing that in classic Jodi fashion, I have let my passion and emotion get the best of me and that Silver Springs came out in 1977.

54:48Rob:yeah but you know the cocaine vibes and i don't take it back yeah don't don't don't worry about it i was gonna go be inspired by the use of i ran flock of seagulls which is just like so audaciously on the nose inside of this episode i thought i would go with something incredibly on the nose which is this is for sweet pea and it's uh one of my all-time favorite like 80s karaoke songs which is uh erasure's a little respect um you know and this is like this is like all sweet pea wants is like respect her and it's an absolute absolute classic banger um that if you've never sung a karaoke you should try because it's the best so um that was my pick i love erasure i'm a

55:29Jodi:huge unironic erasure fan so that's me um also is sweet pea and i guess quabana are they in this show anymore or was it just like you get your one showcase episode and then you're here to sit in the background and ask about eric is that is that will we expect their deployment to be in the finale?

55:45Rob:Well, yeah, let's ask some finale questions. What do you what do you think, Rob? Do you want to do you want a massive amount of sweeping Kwabana or like what else? Like we haven't seen Haley in this episode, but it's Haley episode. Like what do you want to see in the finale?

55:56Jodi:It's so true. I mean, the Yaz Haley stuff in particular, I felt even going into their previous conversation on screen, which was Haley like laying out all the dirt for Yaz. It already felt like we had taken a big jump from their previous interaction being Haley flashing Yaz on the way out of the elevator. So I'm just missing some of the connected tissue there. If Haley is a continued part of the show, but maybe she's not. Maybe she ultimately was just a part of this larger machine and we're never going to hear from her again. I think I'm just looking at this finale unsure of what is going to happen in any direction.

56:28Jodi:I think Whitney will be back and will be facing some kind of music for the things he's done, from whom I think is up for debate.

56:35Rob:80, Rick Ruppet or otherwise, yeah.

56:37Jodi:Yeah, I mean, yeah. But where else does the plot trail go? They've already run through so much story this season and we reached so many like natural sort of closing beats that now I think things can get like kind of explosive if they want to. Like you can really wipe entire plot lines or characters or enterprises off the board if that's where industry wants to go.

56:56Jo:What do you think, Jenny? Oh, well, I think Haley certainly remains a tool in the belt and she does get a mention this episode in the form of the guy in the peer point meeting who kind of unexpectedly stands up for Whitney's right to speak. and Whitney says, you know, maybe he dated Haley. Gross. Fuck off, Whitney. And Henry says dated, because Henry's an idiot. And that's, you know, she's got information. People have information about her. She is connected with Yaz. She wants what Yaz has. I think Yaz is going to want something from her. Those two are going to link up. You mentioned Sweet Pea, and it's like, I do feel like Sweet Pea has been set up to be betrayed.

57:38Jo:and how much more time do we have to do that? And if it doesn't happen, is that just an unclosed loop and actually Harper's grown and won't betray Sweepies?

57:47Rob:I mean, I will not claim to be able to speak financials legibly in any kind of way, but - Well, we are shorting the market next week,

57:54Jo:I believe. So we do need to get on top of that.

57:56Rob:Well, was Sweepie not saying, okay, you know, we'll run our short or whatever, but then we got to like get out before XYZ and Harper's like, this is precisely when I wrote down,

58:09Jo:when Harper says we're speaking the same language and I said, I literally have no idea what this. She says, no one wants to catch the knife. Tomorrow morning, we hit the tape small. Don't show our hand and exit as efficiently as we can. Show me dollars. So I think it just means we hit the tape small.

58:30Rob:Yeah, of course. Like you do. As we do. F1, hit the tape small. You see, you're seeing your numbers go up. Yeah. And then you like cut bait before it happens to like crash again or something like that. Right. You get out while, don't get greedy.

58:44Jodi:We don't want to catch the knife or we don't want to try to catch the knife. Sorry. That's the, that's the fallacy. Don't even try.

58:50Rob:Yeah. Don't even try. It's, you're never going to get the handle. Only, only a blade. And ultimately show me dollars.

58:55Jo:Yes.

58:55Rob:Will Henry suffer any real consequences?

58:57Jo:I mean, there was a moment in this episode, like when you said we, you know, we don't start the episode with Whitney saying like, if you see me without this phone, I'm dead. Right. And then have him die. There was a moment when, uh, uncle Alexander and Yaz were talking back and forth about like, is this love or like, this is going to destroy Henry. And I was like, oh, he's going to die at the end of the episode. Like we, like the last scene of this will be him overdosing. And then I was like, no, no, they're not going to do that. but I mean, I think there's a 50-50 chance he makes it out of this season alive.

59:33Rob:I think the thing that I'm really interested in seeing, like in terms of like where we're going politically is very interesting to me, how the media can be involved. How much are those wacky Russians gonna be like, you know, how far does the Compromat go? How far do the roots, the spindly little roots go inside of all of these plot lines from the Russian contingency. You know what I mean?

59:59Jo:Okay, also maybe I'm a little baby little idiot. But like at the beginning of the episode when everyone keeps being like, you can't claim ignorance, Henry. You're implicated. I was kind of like, okay, but he actually is ignorant. Like is there not a way to prove that he literally did not know about any of, like they are dumb, but they legitimately didn't know.

1:00:23Rob:I do think there's a potential version of this where Henry actually gets no consequences just because like he's so, you know, insulated from consequences in general in his life. The only consequence being like his marriage falls apart or something like that. And he's like, okay. He doesn't seem to care about that too much.

1:00:42Jo:At which time he went into the office that surely he understands is bugged to the gills and said, and had Whitney say like, you didn't know about any of this, but you're implicated. And then he's like, you're right. I guess I'll do crime now.

1:00:58Rob:He's got this letter. Like, could that letter not be evidence? But Henry is so stupid. And he's so dumb. And Yaz is so disinclined to help him at this point that I do think there was a clear way out of that. But like, that's the thing is like Whitney will just sort of like flim flam whatever he needs to flim flam. He'll say, like, I have a bunch of shares in PowerPoint or whatever it is, you know, if it gets him ahead. And Henry's just dumb enough to be like, OK.

1:01:21Jo:Henry's like, oh, this notorious liar must be telling me the truth. The fact that it takes him

1:01:26Jodi:until the plane ride at the end for the scales to fall from his eyes and see what Whitney is and like slam the fart, you know, when the glory finally leaves the hole, I guess if you prefer it.

1:01:35Jo:Tough. Thank you.

1:01:37Jodi:It's just embarrassing for Henry. And I think, look, it is hard to prove I am dumb as a substantial legal defense, but if anyone could do it, I think Henry Muck could try.

1:01:46Jo:It's incredibly, yeah, it's incredibly humbling or upsetting to be called a child in the middle of a hissy fit, which is what is happening on that plane.

1:01:56Rob:Well, that is our episode about the penultimate episode of Industry this season. I'm like very sad that we're almost done with this season, but we will be back next week for the finale. Thank you to Jodi Walker. Thank you to Rob Mahoney. Thank you to Dev, who works on the show. Thank you to Justin Sales. Thank you, you know, to everyone, to all of you for listening, for sending your well actuallys, for sending your thoughts, for helping us understand finance. Y 'all are the best. We'll see you soon. Bye.

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