‘Lost’ Hall of Fame: “The Constant”

23:26Rob:Most of those episodes are not three hours, I should say. It's just it was the constant. So we went very, very house of our length long. But in that episode, we definitely talked about how Christmassy Penny's house is. And then we just started calling her Christmas Penny. And I don't think we stopped calling her Christmas Penny until... She's very Christmas coded. I'm going to be honest. And also, Desmond showing up at her place is not not Andrew Lincoln in Love Actually. There's a lot of overlap happening. We're doing Love Actually, but we're also doing a Christmas Carol and we're also doing an episode of Star Trek.

24:04Rob:Like there are things that, you know, this feels like a very innovative, fresh, this is a template so many people tried to copy ever after, but it is standing on the shoulders of, you know, Dickens and Picard, two of the all-time greats. So what do you got to say? Oh. I'm more of a Picard guy personally, but what can you do? By the way, I was informed on social media that you said you have read a number of Charles Dickens novels and they're not for you. Joanna, I was in a quality public school system. Like, I have read some Charles Dickens books. Rob, I don't know if you saw my response, but I said I absolutely believe you read it in school.

24:39So, like, that's what I said. It's accurate, you know?

24:42Rob:So which Charles Dickens books, not a fan of fiction yourself, but which Charles Dickens books were you forced to read in school? Christmas Carol, Tale of Two Cities, Great Expectations. Right. The latter two, not for me. No, absolutely not. Great expectations. One of the all-time great pieces of fiction. You're like, eh. It's whatever. Yeah, got you. Okay. How do you feel about the use of Jack inside of this episode? Fine. I feel good about the use of Jack in this episode. Reduced to a what's going on guy. He often needs to be the what's going on guy. I mean, somebody's got to do it. I thought relaying that quote from Lindelof was great about kind of how you fix the exposition problem that you need.

25:25Like you need to get through a lot in an episode like this and making it so candy coated as in this like time travel way and really orienting a lot of that stuff through Daniel Faraday really, really clicks. I am glad though, personally speaking, that we do get a little Juliet moment of the like, if you talk really, really slowly, you know, maybe we'll be able to understand what you're talking about. So we salute our queen.

25:47Rob:One of my most like confident opinions was that you were going to love Juliet when you watched Lost. Do people not? Is she not? No, people like her, but I don't think, but some people like love Juliet. And I was like, Rob's going to be a Juliet guy. The character power rankings are so tough in part because of the Desmond problem we talked about before where there's just like certain parts of the story where I love Saeed here, but by the end, is he even Saeed? Spoiler alert, he's not. But Juliet is one of the, I think uniformly, for the time that she is on the show, pretty consistently amazing.

26:20Rob:Do you have like, who's your number one character coming out of Lost? I think I'm a Sawyer guy.

26:29I don't know what that says about me.

26:30Rob:Like a shockingly basic opinion for you, Rob, honestly. Look, I'm sorry. Like, what would the controversial opinion be? Well, there's plenty of bad controversial opinions. I don't know. That's fine. But Sawyer is a great answer. He's a great guy. I would say my big three. Yes. Juliet, Sawyer, Ben Linus. Those are the three for me. Iconic. Hard to go wrong with any of them. and Frank Lapidus. Daniel Faraday is really high up my character ranking. He's really great. I love Jeremy Davies, whether he's on Justified or Lost. I think he's wonderful as Daniel Faraday, his vagueness, his mumbling, his stammering, his tie that he wears all across his treks on the island.

27:13Rob:Flashback wig, notwithstanding, the very like Marty McFly coming to tell Doc Brown that he invented time travel, like aspect of their interactions works really well. And then of course, the end of the episode, the like, if anything happens, Desmond Hume will be my constant. I do have some, I've always had some questions about this because what Daniel Faraday says to Desmond Hume is like, you got to pick something that matters so much to you more than any, it's just like really emotionally impactful to you and exists in both timelines. And I'm like, oh, is that how you feel about Desmond Hume? I mean, no, no, No judgment, Daniel Faraday.

27:50Rob:You met the guy once. So you're like, wow. Who among us, though? This is my penny. This is my penny. His doesn't hume. Well, here's the thing, Joey. If someone showed up and said, I am a time traveler from the future and I am here to relay to you specific information about yourself, would that not be basically one of the most important days of your entire life? It's true. It's true. Also, Eloise died. So there's a lot to think about here. I also think as far as the Faraday part of this, like he represents one of my favorite things about loss, which is the overall whatever happened, happened explanation of time travel within this show.

28:23So like very simple, very elegant. It like answers a lot without actually answering anything, which is very Daniel Faraday thing to do. I also think his presence within the show, especially at this point, is so welcome. Because you're right, he is a little ambiguous and like clearly hiding some things, but he wants to tell people so bad what's going on. Like there's finally a character on the show who's like, I really would love to tell you about this time vortex that exists around this island. And there's reasons why I'm not being 100 % forthcoming, but I appreciate the eagerness.

28:53Rob:And that's why Daniel Faraday doesn't work as well as he does without Charlotte. Charlotte, not one of my favorite characters, but you need Charlotte there to be like, Dan, shut up! So he can not tell them all the information at once.

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31:37Rob:Best performance of the episode. I mean, it's Henry and Cusick as Desmond, right? That being said, Yes. Sonia Waller only has like a few minutes. Yep. To get us to feel the same amount that he has made us feel. It's a great point. This is a great point and a compelling take. And she, I mean, she's batting a thousand in this episode. She's very good. But, I mean, I'm not going to take it away from Henry. This is his episode. Best line of the episode. For me, it's a little more elaborate than one line, and it's the sort of interlocking promises that Desmond and Penny are trying to eke out to each other before the phone cuts off.

32:16Rob:How much of a crier are you when you watch television? I'm more of a weller. If it gets me, I start to feel it. I'm not full on waterworks, but I am but a human being. And this is an episode that absolutely gets me. I think that, I mean, the call at the end for sure, but also when he shows up at her house to ask for the phone number. Like both of those sequences just really needle something for me. I have watched this episode so many times and yet it still makes me cry when I watch it. And I - It's very powerful. I was watching it, you know, my housemate walks in and she's like, she's like, is this the fucking constant?

33:02Rob:and I was like, yeah. She like left the room but she walked in right towards the end of the episode and she started to hear the beginning of it. She's like, wait, it's happening. She like came running back in so that she can like be there for the phone call. She is living in a time loop where the constant just keeps coming on over and over. She's like, oh, it's happening right now. Yeah, I would say Penny, you answered, you answered Penny is like, I think about that all the time. But what I like of that is like a book, like we talked about with the West Wing episode when Leo's like, there's a press conference tonight, you're going to want to watch it and then watch this.

33:34Rob:At the beginning of the episode, Saeed says, what are you hoping to get? And Desmond says, answers. And then it ends with, Penny, you answered, you answered Penny, which is not the answer she's talking about, but it's like an important answer from the universe. Lost, when we think about the deities that exist in the world of Lost, they are very unkind. and then sometimes they're kind. And this is a moment when, you know, whatever hand of God you want to call fate, faith, et cetera, like, Penny, you answered, you answered Penny. And you need the unkind for this episode to work. Like a part of the reason I think the overall engine of like, oh, this is happening to you too.

34:19And we're seeing Desmond have to wrangle with the nosebleed and kind of how fast this is all accelerating. the reason you buy it is because of what happens to Charlie and what happens to Shannon and what happens to Libby and Echo and Ana Lucia. You can go on down the line. We've seen the costs of these things. Your favorite.

34:38Rob:Your guy, Boone. No comment on Boone. Some losses are more acceptable than others. But you buy it because of all of that backgrounding. And so then when you do get the sweet, sweet satisfaction of the one day where things work, it's an incredibly powerful and moving thing. And that's why, like, in addition to the lines that we're talking about, I think that, like, it was enough after he does kind of stabilize is really, really great. Yeah. There isn't really a needle drop in this episode. No. I mean, the whole score is really great. And the score for the phone call in particular is just slow build, absolute king shit in terms of orchestrating that moment.

35:19Rob:Chikino, who knew? We knew. Iconic image slash shot composition. If you'll forgive me for being basic again, Joe, it's just the red phone. It's how red the phone is. Honestly, I was going to say the same thing. It's like that image, it's similar to like thinking about Bartlett alone in the cathedral. Yeah. Like you see Henry Ian Cusick with a red phone plastered to the side of his face and that means something to you. So yeah, it is. And also like the way that scene is shot and how tight it's framed, right? This is like very extreme closeup for him. There is nowhere to go. That moment either works or it doesn't based on what he is selling and how he's welling up.

35:58And I think Henry and Cusa comes through with just some of the best phone acting you're going to see just about anywhere.

36:05Rob:His desperation. Yes. And he has been playing desperation for seasons now. Favorite under-recognized detail? You said that this is the sink for you? I mean, if that counts. But again, what even is an under-recognized detail on this show? Of the constant. I will just say, I just don't think we talk about it enough. The fact that Daniel Faraday named his lab rat after his mom, his lab rat that he is like ready to kill after his mom, Eloise, is pretty great stuff. Daddy issues last pod. Mommy issues this pod. What's new under the sun? Exactly. All right. You're right. I mean, this is the thing. Okay.

36:44Rob:What is two cathedrals without the scene where Jed Bartlett is in the church cursing out God? And what is this episode without the phone call? Because best moment scene also has to be the phone call. It's just the phone call. You know, and this is just like a minute. I don't know how much. I'm sure I've done the count before, but I didn't do it for this podcast. But like, it's a minute. Two minutes, maybe, max. And it's just some of the most important television you've ever seen. It's just astonishing stuff. It's completely crucial. And again, this is, you know, we were talking about the West Wing.

37:14we're commenting on like, do these episodes have the same power when you know what's coming, when you know this character survives, whatever it is. I still hold my breath when he's asking for her phone number too. So it's like, again, those two scenes, they can't exist without each other. They really are the two tent poles in terms of propping this thing up. And again, I agree with you, the moment has to be the call at the end, but there's so much I love about him begging her in a way that, you know, like, there is more than a little bit of Kevin and Nora in them. Like, the personality types are different, but, like, particularly this idea of belief as an act of love, right?

37:55Like, there are things that we accept and we are willing to accept even though they seem impossible, and we do it because we love the person that they're coming from. And so, yeah, like, your ex-boyfriend shows up and asks you this thing that does not make any sense whatsoever and says he will not talk to you for the next eight years, and you still like clear your schedule on Christmas Eve 2004. Like it's just what you do because of like your, like how tied you are to each other. And so foregrounding all of that in the conversation about the number in the first place and specifically the idea that it is a phone number, like the symmetry of I'm going to reignite my relationship by asking for the thing that starts a relationship.

38:32Rob:It's just, it's beautiful stuff. You got those digits. You did. I also think on this rewatch, the moment that I rewound several times to sort of take it in is the moment when Desmond is in the past walking away. She has closed the curtain on him. You hear the ringing in the present. And then he gets this little smile on his face because somehow through time he knows that she answered. How does that work? Like, what kind of paradoxes that create in the sort of Desmond whatever happened, happened timeline. I don't know what to tell you, but that little smile means a lot to me. It's really good. Let me tell you, I don't care how it works.

39:19I just know that it does. And this is another thing that I think Lost really understands about this sort of storytelling. There's a scene, for example, in this episode where they're all locked in the infirmary and then suddenly they're not locked in the infirmary. And it's like, you do not let the detail get in the way of the good story. And frankly, the idea that the locked room isn't the important part. The door being open is a better mystery than the locked door is a puzzle. And so you're able to kind of have it both ways if you just open the door.

39:49Rob:And then you know why later. For sure, absolutely. But this is a sort of like... But that's a tomorrow problem. You've got a guardian angel on this ship or whatever. And so that all feeds into this mythology of God is smiling on Desmond this day. And then later you're like, actually. That's just my call, but you know, it's fine. What would the runner up episode be if it weren't this episode? So when we had the opportunity to do a lost Hall of Fame episode on this feed previously, Mallory and I chose Through the Looking Glass, which is the season three finale with the aforementioned, but very deeply connected because Charlie, Not Penny's Boat, all of that iconography comes from that episode.

40:29Rob:Also, We Have to Go Back comes from that episode. Like that is just an absolute banger of a season finale sort of feeling. What I like about this episode is this is episode five. It's not a premiere and it's not a finale. It's episode five of a season. So I think that's interesting. But any runners up that you have in mind? I think this is one of the harder ones to peg just because there's so many different versions of what a great lost episode is. And like case in point, this one, which is structurally unlike almost any other episode. And yet it's wonderful for that reason. like I mean preceding through the looking class like greatest hits is so good and I see that as somebody who does not care about Charlie that much I know I know and I'm still just like I am captivated by what they're able to do within the like scope of that episode in making you care about a character who had some frustrating storylines through the earlier seasons so like I would think about that one and at the risk of pandering like Trisha Tanaka is dead is sitting right there you know it's just it's just right there it's funny it's sad it's ultimately quite ecstatic like I'm I'm here for everything that it's bringing to the table.

41:33Rob:I'll take the pander. I'll take the pander of Trisha Tanaka's dead. One all-time lost episode. Also, given that you're a Juliet and Sawyer guy, LaFleur is also one of my could-have-been-LaFleur episodes. That's another sort of love story told over time. This idea of characters who have a spark, but then due to time travel shenanigans, all of a sudden we are like knee deep in a relationship that matters and that it is convincing. And all of that is just very important. Well, we will. It's so good. We had it. We really had it there for a moment, Joe. We did. And then it was just ripped from our fingers.

42:15It was. But as a Juliet guy, I also, I love Not in Portland, which is like the proper. Yes, the next episode. Yes, the proper Juliet flashback episode. Oh, you're right. Sorry, the other woman is the next. Yes, this is like season three, I think I want to say. It's the full backstory on how she gets to the island effectively. Yeah, yeah. And I think the most effective single episode backstory that any character gets. We get it parceled out in all sorts of ways throughout the show for all kinds of characters in effective ways. But this is the episode that made me, made Juliet one of my favorite characters on the show.

42:50And so that's a powerful thing for one episode.

42:54Rob:Anything else you want to say? I know people were really excited to hear your last take. So anything else you want to say about your journey through Lost that you had a couple months ago? We should say Rob was very ill when he did this. I was quite ill. He's usually too busy to binge an entire television show in a few weeks. It's not like a habit of it. But in this case, look, I'm glad that I did. And even given that I was that ill, I really miss it. I just miss the presence it kind of had in my life, even as I was battling pneumonia, basically, which I think speaks to how effective and singular it is.

43:31And I mean, I miss the cast. I miss obviously the mystery of it, the presence of that kind of time and ride. And I have found since that it's just like an incredibly difficult void to fill. Like this show creates such like an emotional crater. And I think part of it is honestly like the satisfaction of like all of these interlocking parts across the story, right? The cast is so huge. They're bumping into each other, past, present, and future. also afterlife, also flash, whatever direction you prefer. The ambition of a show like this is just beyond questioning. And so at a time where I'm constantly watching things and being like, was this filmed on the volume?

44:10Is this a cast of actually three people? And they're just trying to round it out. A huge ensemble with this kind of scale and this much to say. We never had it so good, frankly. And I look forward to the rewatch. I've only had a chance to actually revisit episodes like The Constant a handful of times. So like my lost journey is only beginning, Joe.

44:30Rob:That's very exciting to hear. Something I like to think about, Rob, when I think about getting to podcast with you over the last couple of years. And before we started podcasting together on this feed, you weren't really like a full-time dedicated TV commenter, critic, anything like that. So how important something like Lost is as a skeleton key to understanding a lot of television that came after it. And how, I mean, people say all the time when they're like, how can you do this? And you guys haven't seen The Sopranos. I understand The Sopranos is also a skeleton key like this, but. We're going to get there.

45:09It's okay.

45:10Rob:But Lost is like, it just echoes through all the television storytelling that follows it. And there were just a number of cheap-ass knockoffs of loss that just sprouted up and didn't last a season that happened around the show. ABC was constantly like, what if we did this premise? What if we did this premise? We can recapture the magic. But you can't go back. Damn, shots at Flash Forward or whatever. I'm literally thinking about Flash Forward, which I believe also starred Sonya Walgers. Wow. Sorry, Penny. But yeah, not just that, but you just find it cropping up everywhere. I think it absolutely deserves to be at the top of this list.

45:53Rob:Is there anything, again, we respect our ringer colleagues and everything they decided to rank. Is there anything else you would have put at the top of this list if not the constant? I'll just read, I'll read the top, maybe the top 10. I'll do the top 10. Okay. So we have number one is the constant. I'm doing it in controversial reverse order. That is just what is easiest for me to do. Number two is The Suitcase, Mad Men. Number three, Reigns of Castamere, Game of Thrones. Number four, Who Goes There, True Detective, Season 1, Episode 4. That's the one with the oner. That one episode, the True Detective one, really feels like a holdover from 2018.

46:38You don't think it deserves to be there?

46:40Rob:No, I'm not saying that. I don't think it would have occurred to anyone to try to put it that high on the list if they were just making the list from scratch in 2025. Like, it's a hard episode to boot, but I don't think it's an episode we talk about the way we talk about some of these other episodes. I think that's fair. Unlike number five, Pine Barrens, the Sopranos season three episode, which I know is an absolute iconic one. If we've heard of it, you know that it's a big episode of the Sopranos. Number six, Ozymandias, a Breaking Bad one we would have done if we hadn't done it already. on this feed.

47:11Rob:We already did a Hall of Fame for Ozymandias. Number seven is the Chappelle's Show episode, which I love that that's here in the top ten. I think that's great. Number eight, Connor's Wedding Succession, which you had a strong objection to. It's not what I would have picked as the Succession episode, but you didn't think Succession belonged in the top ten. Should I not call you out like that? Oh, no. You can absolutely call me out on it. I like Don't Love Succession. And so the idea of it as a top ten pantheon show, even within the single episode, parameters here. I just don't see it as that kind of show.

47:44Okay.

47:45Rob:Number nine is Middle Ground, an episode of The Wire from season three. I believe it's the Omar episode, probably. And number 10 is an episode of Survivor, the final four from the first season. So that's the top 10. Watchmen just out of the top 10. Yeah. The OC pilot, a Severance episode, episode of Andor, et cetera, et cetera. Grey's Anatomy. So like, and then we get to Two Cathedrals West Wing, the one we decided to do. So is there anything that you would like vehemently want to boot off the list? Not against, because this is a consensus vote. So this is like, you know, whatever. We're not taking shots at anyone who made this list.

48:25Rob:But like, anything you're like, I don't think this belongs here or anything where you're like, where is this representation higher? It's less the booting and more to me, Fleabag came in at number 60. And this is the season, the season two finale of Fleabag. again, just like had a bigger effect on me than the vast majority of episodes that came in the top 25. And so the idea that it would be at 60, I find a little challenging. But look, this is a broad vote. Everything's going to happen for everyone a little differently. When I'm thinking about like what I want in those top spots, I want the like indelible Mark shows.

49:01I want like the before and after. And like, I think Reigns of Casimir is another great example of like whatever you think about where Game of Thrones goes. That was a moment. Not just a moment in culture, but a moment that changes the way you watch anything, what you look for. I just have the national version of Reigns of Castamere playing in my head nonstop. That's just a thing that's happening in the back of my brain all the time. I think that when you coin... Like I was saying about the idea of the constant, which has a great echo later in the series with the variable.

49:35Rob:But the idea of like, which I guess, I think on Friends, the concept of the lobster predates the constant, but it's the same thing. It's like your soulmate, essentially, my constant. Sure. Don't shake your head at me. I will shake my head at Friends all day, every day, Jo. Friends is nowhere near the top of this list. But I think that coining that and then like the Red Wedding. This is this show's Red Wedding episode, of course. Like you have to honor the original. I will say I just gotta be myself please and say two things number one Bloody Harlan season two episode 13 of Justified number 26 way too low way too low for that episode of Justified a perfect episode capper of a perfect season of television so yes and then the Buffy episode is not the Buffy episode I would have picked personally well what is the one you would pick so they picked ones more with feeling They did.

50:35Rob:I mean, if I had to pick one of the consensus episodes... You don't. Spoiler alert, you don't. I am talking to you, Joanna Robinson, not... I would have a better time... Spokesperson for the consensus. I would have a better time with The Body being here or with Hush being here than I would with Once More With Feeling being here. My favorites are earlier in seasons two and three, but Hush and The Body and Once More With Feeling are the top. the three all-timers that people talk about, and I just would have picked, probably would have picked Hush, actually, just for how conceptually audacious it was to do.

51:15I go around that, I mean, I was going to say circle, but I guess triangle, just all day, every day, depending on the day of the week, my mood. I think right now I'm in more of a the body space. And in particular, it's like, the way that that particular like Mack truck of story hits several different characters in it to the point that they don't even know what to do with themselves is just something I'll never forget. And it's like, yet there are a bunch of episodes of Buffy that are like that. But I think that's one where everything is brought to a halt by design. Right. And yet it's still super watchable, which is an incredible thing to pull off.

51:51Rob:Well, I think also, plug your ears if you're Mallory Rubin or anyone else who has not seen this far into Buffy, but the way in which it takes a supernatural show and brings reality crashing into it is just like pretty unforgettable. Can I ask you another Lindelof verse question? What would be your leftover submission? I was thinking about this as International Assassin, which we've covered in the Hall of Fame. It's clearly a Hall of Fame episode. And yet, you know, like there's a part of me that's like, do I want the finale? Book of Nora is so good. It's the finale. It's really good. Yeah. Anything else?

52:28Rob:Any other shows that are important to you that we've never talked about? There's got to be so many at this point. We haven't and probably will never talk about Deadwood on this podcast for reasons that I don't quite understand. I feel like we've talked around Deadwood in the past. Yes. But yeah. I mean, just one of the great works of television of all time. I think that snapshot, again, it's a little bit of like you were 13 when SNL was on, but like the six feet under Deadwood version of HBO is a lot of appeal for me. That is my sweet spot for sure. Number 46 on the list, sold under sin, Deadwood season one, episode 12.

53:06Rob:So it's on the list. All of the list was on the list. We're happy just to be nominated. There you go. All right. Well, this has been The Constant and some other stuff. And we really just wanted to talk about some great television and also highlight the great work of our colleagues over on TheRinger.com, please do go visit that list. It's really well composed and well written and we just really love the people that we work with and they did a great job. And they love television too. Yes. I would also, Joe, I would love to hear from anyone listening, PrestigeTV at Spotify.com for your lost alternative episodes to The Constant.

53:41If not The Constant, what? Because I feel like this is such a wide range of possibilities with this show in particular.

53:47Rob:Abaterno's also really high up on my list. It's really good. It's really, really good. Yeah. The Black Rockets. gets a shout in this episode. So yeah. Let me tell you, that season needed it. It needed that episode so badly. So I'm glad that it found its way in there. So not Across the Sea for you? Not the Allison Janney episode? No? You know, I have nothing bad to say about CJ Craig. Nothing bad to say about Allison Janney, except the fact that I don't know why she's in that episode. I don't know why that episode exists. I don't know what's happening with any of that. I think if I wanted to do maximum trolling, which sometimes you do want to do with lists like these.

54:24Rob:Like not be untrue to yourself, but also be provocative. Yes. The Lost Finale. I mean, we have to at least talk about it a little bit, don't we? I love the Lost Finale. Like I absolutely love it. And in terms of like things that can easily make me cry, the first few notes of the score at the end of the Lost Finale, which is called Moving On by Michael Giacchino, demolishes me every time. That's an episode, to your point about like what they do with Charlie, in Greatest Hits and Through the Licking Glass. Yeah. That's what they do with Jack for me in the finale. They really do. You know, all of that stuff just really works on me, so.

55:02Jack is not great. Much of the run-up to that finale is not great. And yet, like, I mean, this is just the through line of all these Lindelof shows. It's like the emotional truth of what the show is. It always gets there in the end. And it always, I mean, just decks me every single time. So I'm with you. I was honestly a little shocked by the reputation of the finale and then experiencing it for the first time. Granted, I mean, I do have you in my ear, too. So there's some counterbalancing light and dark in my life if I want to weigh the two stones. Of course, not equally. But I think it's really effective.

55:37And honestly, all the more effective for the fact that the final season is just not there.

55:43Rob:Christian Shepard, you will forever be my exception to the no-ghost-dad rule. You're it for me. We all get one. We all get one ghost dad. And it's Christian Shepard for me. All right. Well, this has been The Constant. This has been our toe dip back into Lost. Rob's, you know, great accomplishment of 2025, among other things, I'm sure. And thank you to Justin Sales for the sort of prod to do this. Thank you to all of our colleagues who put that tremendous list together and everyone who worked on the design of it and all of it. It's just like an incredible lift. Uh, thank you to our constant, Kai Grady, uh, for his work on this episode.

56:26Rob:Thank you to you, Rob Mahoney. And we'll see you soon. Bye.

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