‘Pluribus’ Episode 5: The Specificity of Grief (and Milk Slurping) | Prestige TV | The Ringer

22:16Joanna Robinson:And so that is something that we accept as true of our society, right? That like the role of society is to protect the vulnerable. Is that how the hive mind thinks though? They won't actively kill, but like what is their attitude towards the vulnerable? Given their sort of like their idea of themselves that they are caring individuals, I feel like they would support and care for everyone. But I don't know the answer, especially given the sort of like people mill aspect of what we're encountering inside of this episode. I think part of the reason that the hive mind kind of tilts from caring into a like toxic positivity is that it's not just caring.

23:04It's caring and optimizing. And when those instincts come into direct conflict, like with, for example, the terminally ill or the people who need a lot of life support to stay healthy.

23:13Joanna Robinson:Yeah. Like this is a collective being that is shutting down the power in every city and every corner that doesn't absolutely require it. And when they get to decide what absolutely requires and what doesn't, I feel like at that point you're just optimizing out all emotion, all of our imperfections, all of what fundamentally makes us human, to be honest. Yeah, the idea of like exceptions and, you know, all that sort of stuff that there isn't just like one rule for everyone. I don't know. There should be. I don't know. It's complicated. We don't know the answer. We don't even know what the powder is for certain.

23:51So, you know what? We don't. This is a big, complicated conversation we're delving into without powder level detail yet.

23:57Joanna Robinson:It's true. It's true. But I do think it's interesting. Like, we're constantly getting emails from listeners who are like, is Carol the antagonist? The hive mind seems pretty chill. All the sort of stuff like that. And on the one hand, that would surprise me more, were it not for the fact that I feel like every day there are people who are just sort of like stumping for AI in general in a way that like feels very like. just chill out, calm down, let it wash over you in a way that like, you know, worries me. So it feels very of a piece of a part of human nature to just be sort of like, what's the, what's the most frictionless existence that I can have?

24:40Joanna Robinson:And yeah, what's, what's the most comfortable? And ironically, Joe, that's why I like Carol. Cause she's like, I, I, you know, I will let you restock the sprouts I'm not licking cans out of trash cans like Manusos but you know she's like fuck your comfort I don't want it I really appreciate how flawed she is and frankly how like outwardly unlikable the show wants her to be even putting her in the situation in this episode where she's sending out these video dispatches to the other unliked I mean at least by the end of the episode she realizes maybe I should do take two on this thing because my tone is like not ideal in terms of the execution but like she comes across as just like the most obnoxious like know-it-all asshole who is only right like a fraction of the time and that fraction is granted very important but overall like not not the affect you want to adopt with people you're trying to convince of literally anything uh-huh yeah once again i am unfortunately feeling like i'm really relating to no no not i mean i would not i don't think i would sent out a video like this.

25:44Joanna Robinson:No, of course not. And I wouldn't even bother to hide the booze. I don't know who she thinks she's kidding. But that excitement she gets when she's like, I think I figured it out. Sure. I recognize that high from like, not in like a know-it-all space, but just sort of like, I think I figured out. Yeah. I think my theory about this TV show is right or whatever. And then it's often wrong, but I get really excited about it anyway. So the enthusiasm and the sort of like, she's like, I know, I'll use the pH strips that I use on my hot tub. Like there she is innovating. And I was really proud of her for that.

26:20Joanna Robinson:So I think she felt the same way about her drug experiment last week. You know what I mean? She's just sort of like keeping herself intellectually engaged to a certain degree and like feeling like she's making progress towards something. But then she's just sending these dispatches out into the void and who knows, you know, what's happening to them. But it's nice to see those sides of Carol. It was nice to see last week, like, the relief on her face in realizing maybe there is a way out of all this. Maybe there is a way to kind of fix the world. And here, like, you're right, that enthusiasm, that excitement, like, that's a place we want to see Carol.

26:53It's just kind of what comes as the chaser to the excitement, which is like, again, just a little more edge than I would like personally.

27:00Joanna Robinson:Just no, you know, emotional intelligence, no social awareness. She really needed Helen as her translator. and she does not have that anymore. This episode is brought to you by Sweetgreen. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweetgreen's new wraps have got you. Real ingredients? Zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aioli. Crumbled bacon? Corn salsa. 40 grams of protein. Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New Sweetgreen wraps hit different. Order now at order.sweetgreen.com.

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29:37Joanna Robinson:Because this show had such a high budget, in previous episodes, we've talked about places where we could definitely see where the money was, where the money went. I think I know where you're going already, Jo. Okay. Is it to the top of the Crowne Plaza Hotel? In this episode, I'm asking where's the money? Because they green screen Ray Sehorne on top of this building in a way that I just don't understand. I understand why we need digital effects to make Albuquerque look deserted. Sure. That I understand. But I don't understand why we can't shoot this woman on top of a building in a way that looks more convincing than what we got in this episode.

30:17Joanna Robinson:Any thoughts on that, Ramahony? It was very much in the tradition of Tommy Wiseau in the room. Those rooftop shots was kind of the vibe. What's confusing though is because when that shot zooms out and you just see Carol on top of the building at a distance within the context of a very empty city, I thought that stuff looked pretty good. But anything up close was kind of a disaster. That is not a$15 million shot right there. No, it was bizarre. Though she looked suitably winded and distraught and then defiant. So good job for her. Anything you want to say? I know you already gave Carol a review on her performance on camera here.

30:56Joanna Robinson:You know, a couple more takes, soften the tone, smile more, whatever you want to say. These were not my notes for the record.

31:12Joanna Robinson:Anything you want to say about her specific language that she uses or anything like that? Oh, just welcome to the podcast, Carol. You know, she is also diving into the terminology debate. Are these the afflicted people? The afflicted people. Exactly. Are they the others? She seems to settle on survivors for herself and the rest of the unlicked, which I don't mind, frankly. Although it does kind of like jab a knife into the side of the theory that any other human being can be saved if they are the survivors of this thing. That would indicate that everyone else is already kind of cooked. I hope that's not the case for everyone involved.

31:44Joanna Robinson:Because like if you're a survivor and everyone else is afflicted and then you cure the disease, then they can also survive the disease. Right. That's fair. So, yes, I was so glad that Carol entered the the nomenclature debate. I'm still sticking with the unlicked, even though we got an email from a listener who says we say licked too many times in this podcast. I say maybe not enough, honestly. Blame Vince Gilligan, frankly. This is not our fault. um in carol's investigation her dispatches from the couch uh etc etc we also get this uh storyline with the wolves and the literal wolves are at her door uh they're going through the trash and they're trying to dig up helen's body um and we've had listeners uh write in before about the idea that we're watching Carol go through stages of grief.

32:42Joanna Robinson:But I thought that was pertinent. I don't know that we've discussed it that much. And I thought it was pertinent to revisit here. Our listener, Ben, wrote in to say, when you lose someone you are deeply in love, you're deeply in love with unexpectedly, the world really feels like the world of Pluribus. Life goes on for everyone else, but everything has changed for you. Everyone you interact with doesn't feel quite real. None of their attempts to make you happy are ever quite right. And people's sympathy never quite feels earnest. And I thought that was really resonant with what we see of Carol inside this episode.

33:15Joanna Robinson:The idea that Carol's been sleeping on the couch because she can't bear to sleep in the bed where she and Helen slept before. The, you know, she accepted help in burying Helen, but now she will put the paving stones down herself And she will, you know, paint this beautiful little like headstone like memorial thing for Helen on the grave. So keeping the show's been doing a good job keeping Helen quite present in all of these episodes. But just like remembering that it has been eight days. Yes. Since this woman lost. Who was sadly the one person that she felt close to in this world. So she can't even pretend the way that Lakshmi is pretending.

34:01Joanna Robinson:Right. and uh and guess what she's carol's not over it and that's as it should be so you know rightly so i mean and look you this is where you have to be very careful with your metaphors because if you don't put your trauma to rest properly in your backyard the wolves will come around and dig it all up for you and force you to confront it metaphors are tricky that way they really are also were they wolves i say this is the close captioning said wolves so that's what i'm going with. I mean, I thought they were coyotes at first. Oh, runty. Wow. They're not dire wolves, Rob. But they're not even like gray wolves.

34:37They're not even like a properly sized wolf. They look to me like very well-trained show huskies. That's what they look like to me.

34:43Joanna Robinson:When have you ever encountered a wolf? Well, I've just seen diagrams. I've had zoo books before. I've watched The Grey starring Liam Neeson. Of course. I'm saying this is smaller than a wolf, bigger than a coyote, firmly in just like a wild dog range. At first, I thought they might be coyotes just based on like how light their coloring was. Yes. But again, the closed captioning said wolves. So I'm going to go with the closed captioning until listen, licking the donut at gmail.com. Or if you prefer not to, press hdbspotify.com if you're a wolf expert. If you're George R.R. Martin, listening from New Mexico, your wolf sanctuary in New Mexico, and you would like to weigh in on these, on these, the size of these wolves, let us know.

35:28Wait, he has a wolf sanctuary?

35:30Joanna Robinson:Yeah, you didn't know that. Oh my God, incredible. Honestly, I think we just found the source of these wolves. They might've borrowed them from George, honestly. They're just next door in New Mexico, so it's fine, yeah. Absolutely has to. I think overall though, Joe, this sequence of Carol fetching the tile and constructing this like protection for Helen, who, as you already said, like we've talked in previous episodes about Helen being Carol's protector in many aspects of their lives and her kind of, you know, having her moment to shield her loved one. Like that's a really powerful thing. It's also the sort of thing where the hive mind can swoop in and restock sprouts in five minutes, but it takes Carol all day to do this.

36:08And it kind of speaks to, again, this idea of like, why this collective society for all its efficiencies, can never do what Carol does in this one day of like physical manual labor. And the reason is because it's hard, right? Because it is arduous for her is what makes it meaningful. And because she's honoring Helen in a way that's so personal and so specific to her and to them. And it turns out that Carol can paint. And she paints this beautiful grave, as you mentioned. And there's also something, too, to tie it back into last week where Zosia is claiming that the hive mind has felt everything that Carol can feel.

36:41We talked about that a little bit, about how familiar they are with those feelings. I just think a moment like this dispels that so perfectly. because the hive mind has a collective human experience, but it really is the version that has been a bunch of people who are ground down into powder and then put in water and then they assume that all the component parts are there. They are not there with the level of specificity and beauty that you get in the scene, which I just thought was one of the most gorgeous things we've seen on Pluribus so far.

37:09Joanna Robinson:The shot of her sort of standing next to the car with the sun behind her was breathtakingly beautiful. Really, really good. um yeah it's so specific to someone this is very specific grief there are similarities inside of grief but then there's also the specificity of uh helen was my one person or um helen knew these specific things about me that maybe other people don't know or i am in no contact with my family So this, that, the other thing, or, you know, whatever the case may be, it is something that should be shared with other people. You should talk about your grief when you're upset or else, again, as Rob mentioned, the wolves might come calling.

38:00Joanna Robinson:But there's always going to be a part of it inside of you that no one else can know about. And that is as it should be. That is part of what we consider being human. Yes. Uh, so, yeah, um, I really agree. It's like, it's, I'm almost, I'm with Carol often and I'm with, like, I would be angry if the hive mind told me they could feel what I feel. Yes. If I'm dealing with a very specific grief of losing Helen, you know? Completely. I think anytime any human being is told some version of that, of like, I know exactly what you're going through, there is that kind of reflexive, like, ugh, like, what are you talking about?

38:38But you're right. There are like universal human truths of the way that we process and feel things and go through things and obviously just markers in life that we all experience in one way or another. But you nailed it, Jill. Like the specificity is what makes it yours. And it's what makes your life and experience totally singular. And to pretend that we can just sand down the edges of that so we can all drive very efficiently down the highway together, I just think really misses the point of the human experience in a way that clearly Carol is trying to fight for.

39:06Joanna Robinson:I also think having the touch of her like painting this marker, we don't, you know, there was an orchid on the grave, right? And then she's replaced with this painted orchid. And we, as far as I know, we don't know why orchids are beautiful, whatever, but like maybe they're specifically special to Helen in some way. But I just don't trust that the hive mind, if you said, it's like similar to like feeding a prompted AI. If you ask the hive mind, can you make me a marker for Helen's grave? Would they know to do that specifically, even with access to all of Helen's memories? And then they wouldn't have sat down and done the act of expression of mixing the paint to get the right shade of purple to put the orchid on the marker.

39:55I mean, this is kind of similar to everything we've been talking about with the hive mind and art and creation. It's like your favorite filmmaker making a movie means more than a hive mind in your favorite filmmaker's body making a movie. Like it just fundamentally represents something totally different. And in this case, yeah, your wife, like your life partner painting this for you in whatever beautiful but imperfect way she can paint it is better than the most gorgeous painter in the world executing it flawlessly on this gravestone.

40:24Joanna Robinson:absolutely and like especially in a world where a drone can't even take out the trash i don't know that i trust that i have mine to do anything right so you know um i did love that we returned to sprouts inside of this episode as part of detective carol's investigative work um she has a barcode and she's like i know where there's a scanner um i guess they keep the lights on at all time with the sprouts um and uh and it doesn't work out but then she like there's a lot of what carol sort of stumbles into inside of this investigation her figuring out to find the dog food bag that matches the bag that the soylent green powder people are in it was that was brilliant stuff from carol honestly really good brilliant stuff from carol inexplicable stuff as a viewer i i just don't even know how she did it well if she recognizes that that's a dog food bag because dog food bags are pretty distinctive right like well it could be a dog food bag it's also like kind of a fertilizer it's kind of a potting soil bag it's kind of like an like commercial volume of rice bag she also doesn't have a dog you're right you're right and as the dog person on this podcast i want to defer to you thank you i don't think rice comes in a bag like that generally not But if you were buying in big enough quantities, maybe it does.

41:51Joanna Robinson:I have spent time with fertilizer and potting soil, and that usually comes in like a plastic bag. So I think it is like a distinctively, I wouldn't have thought of it. No, nor I. And maybe Carol had a dog once in her life, and so she knows that. And I think there was also like a distinctive sort of blue band on the top of it that made it sort of slightly different from any other. but it wouldn't have occurred to me the way that it occurred to carol that obviously they're going to locally source these bags um and i guess um yeah listen looking the donut at dml.com if uh rice does indeed come in a bag you're right no no no you're right that most of those are plastic bags all i'm saying is like she makes a jump there and this is the reason she's detective Carol in addition to scientist Carol in addition to vlogger Carol I don't know what that role is exactly but she's doing all of them to varying levels of success correct greater than us humble podcasters ever could so it's true she gets the results I feel like rice comes in like a burlap sack if it's that much maybe so maybe a barrel a crate oh yeah that's when you go barrel absolutely barrel or burlap is what i would say at gmail.com okay um anything else oh okay so the wolves come i thought i mean it was really funny um the next morning when she figures out how to yes easily get the gun out of the cop car and also then easily get the handcuff off her wrist that's been there uh for at least a day well not to not to belabor the metaphor joe but this is where it really felt like moving past a stage of grief in the light of day kind of thing.

43:37And she's like actually noticing things around her for the first time in basically a week.

43:41Joanna Robinson:And like unshackling from something, would you say? See, come on. If you want to talk about two on the nose, I will say, as an Agatha Christie fan, I simply would not put a copy of And Then There Were None in the front of the frame in an episode when everyone left town. That's just simply not what I would do. Do you think that's any future casting In terms of where the show goes I mean of course you see that Cover you see that novel you start Figuring out okay like what are we talking about here Is there a world in which the 13 unliked start dropping like Flies for various reasons And it's kind of a different sort of And then there were none scenario And one of them is killing the rest of them And then hang well I was gonna spoil it Let's not do that 13 unliked soldier boys That's all I'm saying soldier boys really is the acceptable uh terminology there 13 of like soldier boys is really uh great stuff for you rob happy holidays um you too joe thanks um anything else you want to mention okay our listener rebecca wrote in very timely to say i've been a vegetarian for 30 years but i do miss the taste of meat and i'm always coming up with fantastical scenarios of when it might be acceptable for me to eat it.

45:00Oh, Rebecca. For example. You don't know what you've stumbled into. For example, maybe I had a pet cow,

45:07Joanna Robinson:well-cared for pet cow who died of old age. Go time. I was thinking that if I were one of the ones like Carol who hadn't joined the donut lickers, aka the unlicked Rebecca, thank you so much. I could once again eat meat without guilt because it's my understanding that the collective isn't butchering animals, any more animals. So the meat has already been produced, is the last meat on earth. If I were to eat some of that meat that's left, I wouldn't be participating in a culture that preys on animals because now that's gone. Rebecca and other vegetarians out there, I have a question for you. How do you feel about powdered people?

45:36Joanna Robinson:It's just, you know, the donut lickers feel like they found a loophole. They really did. Self-sustaining, Joe. I have some questions about it. It's a closed loop. It's protein rich. It's protein dense. And I don't know, Rob, if you follow the nutritional trends, but no one can get enough protein these days. They cannot. I was walking through the grocery store, Joe, and I saw Pop-Tarts with protein. I'm like, we've gone too far. I say this to someone who enjoys a Pop-Tart, but simply not. Anything else you want to say about this episode before we get to Sports Corner? Well, along the lines of the powder.

46:13Joanna Robinson:Yeah. I was very grateful that Carol did not do what I would have done in that scenario, which is find the big bag of white powder and at least think about tasting it to figure out if it's salt or sugar or flour or some mysterious substance. I 100 % would have done that. It crunched under her foot, and I was like, oh, that's sugar, right? That's a sugar crunch. Or kosher salt. You know, I think like a big enough grain of salt could crunch like that. Yeah, I really thought we were going to see her taste it. Like 100%. 100%. I also thought when she put down the glass of, like, I would not be drinking brown liquor under the circumstances where you're also mixing like people lipped in iced tea and putting the glasses right next to each other.

46:53I really thought she was going to pick up the wrong glasses.

46:55Joanna Robinson:Well, she also had honey on the table that it was like she was trying to compare its viscosity. That's how she got to like the olive oil consistency or whatever. But she was just like guessing on viscosity. I don't know. It's very interesting. OK, anything else before we go to Sports Corner as our resident sportsman? Well, look, we have begrudged. Is begrudged even the right word in these circumstances? I've taken lots of shots recently, Joe, at the pigeons and the pigeon community. I gotta say we get some some beautiful crow shots here I got nothing against a crow you know one of our most complex thinkers in the animal kingdom I'm happy to see the crows here we got multiple pro pigeon emails in the last week there was a lot wasn't there one about how a pigeon like defeated Hitler yeah I'm gonna have to do a little more research obviously if if the the battle is pigeons versus Hitler I'm gonna be on the pigeon side of that conflict okay you know maybe it's a convenient for me.

47:52But in that case, you know, you're like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. You know, the pigeon and I can be unsteady allies in these times against Hitler.

48:01Joanna Robinson:Wow. Wow. OK, listen, whatever it takes to unite us as a divided nation, I welcome it. OK, let's go to Sports Corner. Here's what Alex had to say, and I thought this was really interesting. Alex said someone asked whether the undersecretary of agriculture could pull off James Harden's step back threes. The physical aspects aside, those shots are successful only because his defender thinks he's about to drive to the basket. If the defender is psychically joined with the player, that negates an enormous amount of what the player is trying to accomplish, which kind of makes the whole thing moot. Rob Mahoney, sportsman.

48:40Yes.

48:40Joanna Robinson:This question of trying to play sports, physical ability aside, when everyone knows what move everyone else is about to do. What do you think about that? This is what makes team sports functionally impossible in these times. And I would say basketball more than any, and I can speak to certainly with a greater level of not authority, but familiarity. Authority. You're an authority, Rob. It's okay. There's a really great basketball book. I mean, it's decades old at this point. It might be 50 years old called The Essence of the Game is Deception. and it is baked into every move, every gambit. Literally everything you're trying to do on a basketball court is a feint or a misdirect of some kind.

49:18And so, yeah, if some of your teammates and some of the opponents are psychically linked, what are we doing here? Like you would need a team of unlicked versus a team of ultimately hive minders to make it work at all.

49:30Joanna Robinson:Like shirts versus skins, but it's licked versus unlicked is what you're saying. Basically, or kind of an Olympics for the fate of the world kind of scenario. Maybe that's more of a space. Ultimately, that is a space jam. This is exactly a space jam scenario. This is indeed a jam for space. I can only hope that the finale is Ray C. Horn with an elongated arm from half court a la Michael Jordan in Space Jam somehow dunking on aliens. Okay. Vince Gilligan, if you're listening, these ideas are free. There's still time, you know? If you want to work in some anti-pigeon slander and a space jam ending, Rob would be quite happy with that.

50:06Joanna Robinson:Okay. Okay. Coleman asks, would combat sports, boxing, MMA, be possible since I don't think the members of the Hive can hurt each other? How about football since the Hive knows what everyone else is doing? That's the same question. Would it be scripted like a pro wrestling match? Could sports gambling work? Sorry, DraftKings, et cetera. Duel fan, fan duel, whatever. Sorry, Duel fans. Sorry, FanDuel. Sorry, DraftKings. No free ads, but I don't think you exist in the hive mind world. I don't think there's gambling of any kind in the hive mind world, right? But even the contact part of that I think is interesting too.

50:42Like even something as simple as like soccer or football, which you would think is a relatively low contact sport in the grand scheme of things compared to, you know, MMA. You can't slide tackle somebody if you're part of the hive mind. I think that goes against your programming.

50:56Joanna Robinson:It's a great point. Okay. Now let's talk about the golfers. the golfers think it would be very cool actually to play golf in this uh new reality uh one thing that several of them brought up was the idea of handicaps right like maybe you could play against the hive-minded uh people with all the dexterity of a tiger woods if they were playing with a handicap um possibly yeah jason i think wrote the most compelling uh argument pro uh golf tour of the world, which is if I'm truly trying to save humanity and need to spend hours asking questions about how the hive mind works and trying to learn why I'm different, might as well do it during a four-hour walk at Augusta National with an all-knowing caddy, or while trying to hit the peninsula ocean green on the long par three over the ocean at Cypress Point.

51:48Joanna Robinson:At some point, I'll run out of West Wing DVDs. Sorry, but I'm leaving the Golden Girls on the shelf and going straight to Jed Bartlett, and we'll need to go out of the house. So let's go to scotland and play at saint andrews and i just think that's a great point i'm not a golfer myself rob mahoney but like uh many people are saying golfers do talk about like you know the way in which walking the green oh sure is part driving it frankly yeah the communal experience not just the communal experience but just sort of like at some at some of these spots now i would argue for me, un-mowed grass, nature, nature is a more desirable like sort of walk in nature.

52:26Joanna Robinson:But for some people walking a golf course surrounded by a beautiful ocean, beautiful trees, something like that, that is like this sort of like a Bill Bryson walk in the woods-esque sort of experience for them. And so that idea of like, I need to ponder this and Carol's just like sitting on her couch and our listener Jason's traveling the world and going to all the famous golf courses, I'm like, that's, you know, you're multitasking. You're trying to figure out how to liberate humanity. Completely. And, you know, sinking some shots. So as a means to an end, some of people say sinking shots. I certainly hope so.

53:03We are out of our depth.

53:05Joanna Robinson:We watched Tappy Gilmore and Tim Cup though, don't we know everything? We did. We had a great time. Yeah. In terms of information gathering, I think you could be quite successful. Basically quarantining one specific member of the hive mind and using your truth serum or not trying to extract information from them that part i get and frankly as far as enjoying the delights of the world absent crowds a golf course is certainly one of them like i know enough golfers to know that like the fight for tea times in some areas specifically is just brutal and now like to bring ai back into it like ridden with bots who are claiming tea times and then being auctioned it's a whole thing there's a whole subculture there that we don't even need to get into like campsites too well it's been true for years exactly like that the bot wars for reserving campsites.

53:49Joanna Robinson:So, yeah. The bot wars to then experience nature is just about the bleakest thing I can imagine. But ultimately, I think what the golfers are describing to me is a little less like I'm on the range. I'm on the range. I'm on the course with my friends and more like I'm playing Mario Golf, but in real life. Did you say you were the sportsman of this podcast? I got my driving ranges and my courses crossed for a second. I don't profess to be a golfing expert, Joe. I simply can't and frankly wouldn't. Okay. Well, that has been this episode. Theoretically a podcast. It's a holiday week. I'm not sure we're entirely on top of our game, sinking shots and driving at the range.

54:35Joanna Robinson:But we appreciate everyone listening to this podcast, whether you did it to avoid your family or not. We appreciate you. We appreciate Ashley Smith, who worked on this episode. Absolutely. We appreciate you, Joe. Come on. Steering the ship on all these pods. It's, you know, maybe it's a cliched time to be sentimental, but I cannot help but be sentimental. Rob Mahoney, I'm very thankful for you as podcasting partner, as always. And Justin Sales. What a guy. Mm hmm. Among the best guys we got. I hope he is not absorbed by any kind of hive mind. Yeah. Imagine losing the individual individuality that is Justin Sales.

55:15Joanna Robinson:That would be an absolute calamity. Okay. We'll be back with more Pluribus. And we also have some other sort of bigger picture shows coming up. So keep an eye on the feed for that. And genuinely happy holidays to everyone. And we'll see you soon. Bye.

55:40You