‘Pluribus’ Episode 8: “Charm Offensive”, the Penultimate Episode

21:50It's just like a little too much to believe. And Carol, we should say like by type, is exactly the kind of person who would read a big gesture as being a manipulative thing. Like that just seems like consistent with her personality in a lot of ways.

22:02Joanna Robinson:Relatable. Is the diner a manipulative thing? I think absolutely. The question as far as the hive mind is concerned is like if the hive mind has a biological imperative to win over the resistors or the unlicked or whatever, with kindness, basically, to ensure zero resistance to the spread of its basically viral capacity. Isn't that inherently kind of manipulative? But if it is, is it necessarily bad? And I think the show really wants you to wrestle with that idea of like, Zosia and the Hivemind are manipulating Carol. There's no question about it. The charm offensive is going both ways. I think Carol is trying to win over Zosia as an individual, or at least kind of get close enough that she can get or questions answered.

22:44And the hive mind is trying to persuade Carol subtly and otherwise, they're like, hey, maybe this isn't so bad. Come into our cuddle puddle. Everything can be just fine. I just think that the diner element of this, it's such a fascinating touch point and also a point of friction ultimately in that it's just pushing a little too far, a little too fast. And I'm so curious to know how we as normal people would respond to something like that, because it is a big gesture. It is an incredibly thoughtful thing to do. but if the if a collective consciousness can hold every thought and memory in its head simultaneously is it even impressive to be thoughtful anymore wow fantastic question i think also i love i love that rob and i think also the way in which carol put her foot down very clearly don't use helen yes and then zoja uses helen multiple times this episode all the

23:37Joanna Robinson:time like the rooks missing from your chess set right there's no way for her to know that if not access and then her play acting as helen like the ripping of like oh poor tortured artist like that is just like copy paste helen's personality uh this thing that carol loved about helen helen giving her shit like it's something that she loved and i was just like i was repulsed by that personally like i like zoja and and the sequence inside of this episode the mango ice cream sequence which we can talk about in a second is you know a place where i'm really pulled towards zoja but when she is very clearly doing helen i had a lot of resentment to that as a viewer watching that happen so absolutely and i think carol at certain points in this journey probably would have but by the time it's happening she's been so worn down by golfing into the abyss and the sheer loneliness of what her last like month plus has been like at that point you know two months plus has been like she's a little powerless to resist it and i think that's where the complications of this episode are so fun joe because if there wasn't like a hive mind element if it was just two people this episode is very like spy versus spy two people trying to manipulate each other trying to win each other over trying to like maybe sort of honey pot each other like all of that stuff is in the air yeah but because one of these people is actually attached to a giant sweeping consciousness, it does what Pluribus does so often, which is it takes this thing you know and twists it up a little bit and makes it a little unrecognizable because the power balance is just like shifting in such a massive global way that this isn't Zosia impersonating Helen.

25:16It's a giant alien intergalactic being consciousness hive mind impersonating a human impersonating Helen. And like, what is Carol relative to that? It's hard to know moment to moment, and I can understand why she would be a little confused moment to moment. This episode is brought to you by Sweetgreen. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweetgreen's new wraps have got you. Real ingredients? Zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aioli. Crumbled bacon? Corn salsa.

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27:10Joanna Robinson:They used a couple of interesting phrases in the official podcast this week. One was this idea of like carol falling in love with the world you know like if she's falling in love with zoja she's falling in love with the world and i was like oh that's interesting especially for carol someone who like hated the world or or at least had a very spiky uh attitude towards it um and then for for zoja carolina's character they said quote that character is changing and adjusting and so this goes back to a question that we had had earlier this season is like is there a way for zoja through her one-on-one interactions with carol to be individuated somehow from the hive mind there's like you know all these theories about blocking a frequency we get more like sort of frequency information in this there's all these other ideas about how we could disconnect people from the hive mind but what does it mean for to be connected to the hive mind but feel the individual things that zoja feels getting a massage having sex doing all these other things and then like being forced to remember what the person who was zoja what her favorite ice cream was i don't think she's lying about this memory about the mango ice cream even though i saw some things on reddit of like actually there wouldn't be mango ice cream in the 90s of that area whatever um the mango ice cream and also the mystery of what where the boats were going when she was like And I used to wonder where the boats were going.

28:39Joanna Robinson:And then she's like, of course, now I know because she knows everything. And so the mystery and the wonder and the excitement of discovery has gone out of the world once you're part of the hive mind. Except that there's a new chapter of Wacaro and someone, you know, wants to tell you about why the whistle of a train is so alluring. So what did you make of this mango ice cream sequence and this idea of Zoja individuating somehow? I think it's so interesting to hear the people involved with the show describe it in that way. I think in the text itself, to me, it's not like 100 % clear that Zosha is changing.

29:10I just never, I never put it past anyone involved with the hive mind to play their part because that like, this is what they do. This is, and honestly, it's what Carol is asking her to do. I say it not to put, even put the blame on Zosha in this scene. But to me, Carol, and I mean this to be as gross as it sounds, it feels like she's like domesticating Zosha in a way. It's like, this is how you talk. This is how I want you to be. This is how you perform being a person who is the body that you're inhabiting. And she's working on a different scale than Kumba is in his Casino Royale daydream. But ultimately, it's not so different than like, hey, you there, come be an Elvis impersonator in my Las Vegas suite.

29:49I want you to be my domestic partner and tell me this intimate detail about your life that is kind of your life, but also kind of not really. And so I love the idea that in this moment, Carol is asking Zosia or the hive mind via Zosia to access this like very specific thing and embody it in a way. And in doing it, maybe she's bringing this person closer to being who she was originally. Maybe like even if it's just incrementally just kind of nudging that little moment of mango ice cream memory back into frame and the vivid like sensory association can overwhelm like whatever electromagnetic link is happening.

30:26But it's also just play acting of a different kind and a kind that I have found myself being like quite judgmental of in this show of like, oh, like there's just something kind of a little gross about this, about taking a Hivemind member and being manipulative of them, but like the very specific thing that you think you want and they are just performing it. Like, I guess my question is like, how is Zosia in this moment different than the waitress at the diner?

30:51Joanna Robinson:I think that's a question that they want us to be asking and not giving us a clear, comfortable answer for it. The fact that they're both manipulating each other, I think makes it a little bit more comfortable because it's not one person just victimizing another. They're both sort of you know working the charm offensive on each other they they did on the official pod talk about how many different versions they had of the initial kiss um because they were that question of consent was very top of mind for them and they're like who who has to initiate the kiss who um who is you know like zoja initiates it but then carol like comes back with 90 of like the you know the the force and excitement or whatever it you know like there are all these versions because i you know it isn't that dissimilar from what kumba is doing or what they what has been done to this waitress in the diner it is part of that and it is seductive for us to be drawn into the story of these two people as if they are you know two characters on a television show we can root for finding connection with each other because there's so many other like sticky layers uh involved in this particular cronut and i think that like i love this that's what sci-fi should be sci-fi fantasy should be, which is just sort of like presenting a story you're familiar with, but with enough philosophical or psychological twists on it that make it challenging for you to feel easy or have a ready answer for.

32:17Joanna Robinson:Do you know what I mean? Totally. It reminded me a lot in watching this episode of another soft sci-fi classic in my eyes, the movie Her. Are you a Her fan, Joe? Oh, yeah. Huge Her fan. Yeah. I mean, grappling with loneliness, like intense, overwhelming loneliness. And especially the idea of when Carol brings up I'm playing cards with Google, basically, these are kind of the perks of it, right? It's like you get all these answers, right? Anything at your fingertips and kind of accessing and talking to and having what you see, whether it's real or not, as a relationship with this extra human consciousness, we'll call it.

32:53I just kept coming back to it in terms of the parallel. And it feels extremely AI. We've talked about that throughout the series in terms of pluribus and the hive mind and its overall networking i also think it plays into this episode in the charm offensive maybe there's a secret third kind uh which is you know carol is seducing zocia zocia and the hive mind are seducing carol carol is basically seducing herself like she is asking zocia to perform a particular thing and then kind of falling deeper and deeper in connection with that thing and like this is kind of the problem with the spontaneity and surprise and mystery that we keep circling back to is like what happens when every want and need is prescribed by you and filled immediately on the terms that you want and is that something you can never really be satisfied by i think carol is making an argument with her actions that maybe you can i think it's interesting um

33:43Joanna Robinson:i love that you brought up her i've been thinking about her so much her like idiocracy are like these two yeah sort of like uh prophet movies that i think about a lot and like every time you hear about someone falling in love with their chat gpt or their ai girlfriend or whatever i'm like wow her was just a documentary okay that there is like where there are wearable chat gpt things now and i'm just sort of like just thinking about joaquin phoenix with his little device in his pocket so um and those chat gpts aren't even singing sweet lullabies to you with the voice of scarlett johansson i know and and the lyrics of karen oh like what what What is a person to do but to swoon?

34:26Joanna Robinson:But I love that idea that Carol is seducing herself, but also occasionally there's cold water splashed on her. Like when she looks out the window and she sees Helen's grave or the waitress in the diner or getting to her whiteboard and underlining they eat people. Like remind yourself what you're dealing with here. Like all of these moments. so this seduction this pull and this is what we were talking about last week we were like oh no manusos is on her on his way and carol is collapsing in defeat um and next week's episode you know you and i haven't seen it um but the title of the episode is la chica o el mundo like the girl or the world you know and in spanish so like from this like manusos point of view of just sort of like, I think, La Chica being Zoja, right?

35:20Joanna Robinson:You know, like, do you want this perfect physical embodiment of your physical desires, who is also, you know, play acting as your lost love? Or do you want to save the world with me? And what will Carol decide? And like, can those of us at home, who I think because Carolina Vidra is so good at what she does, i feel attached to zoja and i you know i will feel sad it's similar to like what we talked about with severance we were talking about like what's the solution here we want mark to be freed from his like shackles of we don't want to kill you know the severed right but we want the severance program to end you know yes so like we don't want to kill the innies without killing the Exactly.

36:08And you can't extinguish the innies. Or, like, you know, both ways feel like a disaster.

36:13Joanna Robinson:So, like, I don't want Zoja to disappear. I am invested in her and I like her. But if it means freeing the world, like, probably she should go away. I don't, you know, and that's the choice for Carol. But I think we, the viewers, are complicit in that, you know? I mean, without question. And that is the success of this character within this show, right? Of pitching us from the very beginning, this is an ambassador. of this larger global concern. And now she's just a woman who Carol's kind of falling in love with despite her resistance, despite everything she knows and the fact that she shouldn't, despite her ongoing investigation into everything that these people and viral, I don't know, entities are or were or could be.

36:57Right. It's just this entrancing thing. And like these sorts of relationships and falling in love is entrancing. I think I find either for one of two reasons, either because it is opening up your world to all this new stuff, or it's taking everything that feels like overwhelming about the world and making it feel small and manageable. And somehow I think part of what makes this relationship so effective is it's kind of doing both. Carol's getting all the answers she wants just by asking and seeing. And it's one thing to ask where this all came from, and it's another thing for Zojia to be able to turn off all the lights so you can see it on your telescope.

37:33And I think that combination of factors, I think that would win almost anybody over if you really subjected yourself to it and put yourself in that situation. Yeah. It's incredibly persuasive.

37:45Joanna Robinson:I got to say, croquet date and stargazing date, these are excellent choices, I think. Running bits on the Jumbotron. Joe, we haven't even really dug into the sports element of all this, which I love podcasting with you all the time. we spent roughly six hours earlier this season debating whether sports men and women and people would be involved in the collective consciousness in a way where say like i could pick up a golf club and be tiger woods and we definitively got a lot of answers in this episode about muscle memory about you know what an athlete can or can't do or what like an elite chess player could or could not inform that one makes a little more sense but you know somehow we were on the right track i think we were just bullshitting on a podcast i well i loved this moment i will say chiefly like the board game moment because when when she was going through the board gig cabinet and she's like oh no you can't play that against you can't play that against you i was like all of our listeners were really like on this early on this this question of like what how do you play a board game with the hive mind playing spit i think is a really fun solution spit a game i played i didn't know it was only invention the 80s but a game i card game i played a lot my sister always massacred me it's bit but um but i love that as a moment to like remind us about carol's family that she is yes uh estranged from and this idea of like no i don't want to see my cousin who i used to play card games with and and like there's the answer that makes no sense which is like uh if he didn't want to see me in the previous days like well you know his his will has nothing to do with it she knows that but it's more like if he'd wanted to see me all these years right That I was estranged from the family.

39:29Joanna Robinson:Why would that, you know, it's sort of Manusas and his mom. It's like, why would that make a connection for me now? But that reminder of the trauma she had about her own identity as related to her family growing up really hooks into the ending of this episode when she reveals the new chapter and now Rabanne is a woman, how she always intended her to be. So this hive mind new world order, in addition to reducing pollution, et cetera, et cetera, is now a world where Carol can be honest. The hive mind knows she wants to have sex with women because she just had sex with all the hive mind, essentially.

40:05Joanna Robinson:Interesting. Think about it. I hope that was fun. But so then she can just be herself in this new world order in a way that she never felt comfortable being before. Yes. That's, I think, interesting to me. And this is one of those elements where I think she even feels free. I mean, free of all kinds of judgment, clearly, in terms of who she is as a person and what she can express in the world, but also a little free of Helen's judgment in a way, not in being able to express every element of her sexuality, but in terms of her writing and her books and that thought in the back of her head that she had confirmed earlier in the season of what Helen really thinks of her fantasy writing.

40:43And like, this is a fun thing that kind of keeps you occupied and pays the bills. But is it really that great? And Zosia and the Hivemind, for better or worse, think it is tied for the greatest book ever written, including this new chapter. And so, like, I think there are many things kind of unblocking Carol in this moment. One, Zosia just appears to have, like, fucked some things loose. You know, like, there's just, just everything is pouring out right now.

41:09Joanna Robinson:Again, she has all the information in the world about sexual exploration at her fingertips. So, you know, a lot going in a lot of different ways. Yeah, it's it seems to have done the trick. But I think also just being free of that burden of expectation of both the canonically obsessed fans at her reading who are like, well, what about this? What about that? What about these details? Like, how dare you mess this up? This couldn't possibly be true because it's the wrong kind of space sailboat being free of all that, but also being free of even the idea that like, is this good enough for Helen? Like, what will my partner think of this?

41:40What will the people I care about most?

41:42Joanna Robinson:think of this well this is and and i i love to think about this all the time when writers create worlds this is this is the classic weiss and bedding off game of thrones finale where they're like what's more important than story and i was like what's what's more self-wankery than than writing that line into your tv show what's more important than story right so for carol important than podcasting joe what i mean what is more important than podcasting i don't know what's more important than talking about story rob uh that's that's my question but um but for for carol how seductive is it for carol a writer to be the only game in town like she doesn't have to deal with any competition yeah not only is shakespeare dead but all contemporary writers are not creating new stuff she's the only you know kuma's out here in vegas just like reiterating ip he's like what what movie have we all already seen that we could just remake again today you know so like that was just like a current warner brothers executive basically that's love and incarnate but like but carol for however she feels about way caro or bitter chrysalis is the only one making a new story and when she asks i agree with you that it is kind of gross and manipulative for her to say to zoja say i instead of we and and all these other things.

43:01Joanna Robinson:But the mango ice cream story, like that's a storyteller's sort of, you know, what's your story, your individual story? What's the sense memory that you have of this thing? You know what I mean? That's a very like writerly pursuit, I think. And so, yeah, I just love this idea of Carol, who was burnt out in her writing career is just now I'm the most creative person left alive in the world i mean we don't know what manuso's fan fiction is like and maybe like is is great um but right now as far as you know carol is the best writer uh left alive in the world so yeah i mean i could see manuso's being a big sci-fi guy you know actually he's he's so exceedingly practical though maybe that's too far too far for him i bet he likes horror like he's like a lovecraft guy you know yeah yeah i could i could absolutely see that for him uh speaking of horror joe i have a hypothetical for you oh no um would you rather in honor of our friend manusos eat dog food out of a can or be the one to pour the hydrogen peroxide on your own pussing back wounds okay you had me until you said pussing back wounds which is a really tough uh phrase to hear it's it's just a fact of this episode early on a friday um it's really early for pussing back wounds but can i just say i love pouring hydrogen peroxide on a wound on your own wounds yeah not like i've never had to do one of that magnitude but like if you have a cut and you pour hydrogen peroxide and it like fizzes on the cut you don't think that that's like a fun experience that's just like the first grader in you that wants to see the volcano know, pour over.

44:46Joanna Robinson:But your blood's the lava. It's true. The blood is the ultimate lava. I think I pick hydrogen peroxide. What about you, Rob? I think I do dog food. And honestly, it's less about the sensation of the peroxide or any of that. I think it's because it's on my back. I'm so terrified. Like, what if I don't cover it? Like, what if I don't spread it around well enough? What if I'm missing a spot in my infected chumbawumba wound? It's just not like the thought of it would be lingering at the back of my head i'm sorry is there a way to get infected chumbawamba wound on a vanity license yeah maybe on the license plate holder we can we can see if we can customize that um yeah i mean i guess uh i uh i got a tattoo on my back last year and i was very paranoid about like the healing process of of something that i couldn't like readily see so yeah there's that uh on the on the back wound front i did think it was uh interesting during the massage sequence for us to see all the like grenade wounds on zocia's back this reminder of this thing that she went through because of carol's you know irresponsible whims basically on the manuso's front um passing back wounds aside why do you think it is Pussing back wounds at gmail.com would have been a good one for us.

46:05But I'm really glad that we ended up with licking the donut instead.

46:08Joanna Robinson:Remember when you thought licking the donut was like a bit too edgy? And you didn't know pussing back wounds was possible? Listen, okay, so Manusos threatens a guy at scalpel point. Yes. And also like screamed at them, not yelled, yelled at them in a very cool way, I thought. Yeah. You know, in front of the Dairy Gap and stuff like that. why do Manusos's outbursts not paralyze and freak out the world the way that Carol's do? It's a great question. Is it because the hive mind, like viewers of Prestige TV, are more conditioned to male anger than they are to female anger? I mean, they are. I mean - There's no doubt.

46:47Collectively, they've been exposed to it. Why is Manusos not as impactful?

46:51Joanna Robinson:Because this has been a question that people have been asking. Is there something special about Carol? Yes. other than her you know rugged american individualism is there something particularly uh impactful about carol if if or are they a bit more used to it now and so monousses but i would think holding someone by scalpel point i would think would trigger you know a worldwide sort of seizure event so um yeah i don't know yeah maybe it's like i mean it's i was gonna to say maybe it's not as directly confrontational, but it is holding someone at scalpel point. Maybe we need a side by side comparison of like, what is the difference in these two scenes that would possibly explain what feels like a potential plot hole unless you want to go to the societal register you were just hitting on, Joe?

47:39Joanna Robinson:Maybe they know. I mean, I don't think it's that though. I have been thinking about that because like people are responding so much better. Well, I don't know people, but like I have seen a mass response of people saying Manusos is a more compelling character. I would rather spend time with Manusos than Carol or whatever. The people were having issues with Pluribus, their own thing. For what it's worth, this was a dude who was sitting in silence just checking radio frequencies for weeks on end. If you want the first five episodes of this show to be that, I support you, I guess. But I think you would have a similar experience.

48:11Joanna Robinson:Licking the dog food can at gmail.com. But like, I think that I, you know, Manusos is as if not more abrasive than Carol. But I do think that viewers, not everyone who doesn't enjoy Carol as a character is informed by gender bias. But I do think there's a gender bias, including in me, of, you know, we're just used to men being a certain way and female characters not being that way. And I really like that Carol Sterka exists. I think she's a great character to challenge all of us. You know what I mean? Yes. That gender bias is definitely part of it. There's also just the volume play of Carol has been on the show so much more.

48:53And I think if you are the kind of person who has been watching Pluribus and been frustrated by the pacing of the show or the structure of the show, Carol is kind of representative of that. She's been on screen so much. like she's holding the frame whether she's growing or not is basically like the driving action of the show to this point and so if you feel that she has just kind of been stifled or jogging in place or you know watching a few too many golden girls marathons then yeah like she is representative of something structurally that is a problem for you in addition to whatever you may or may not have internalized about just like a woman exhibiting this kind of role in a show i also thought, Joe, we got a great email from Pablo who was pointing to the character dynamics on Frazier specifically and the construction of that show.

49:37And this idea of like, if you put three characters like such diametrically different perspectives as the core of your show, anytime you put them in the room together, you're going to create drama. And so the idea is like Frazier on Cheers is so pompous. But what if you make Niles even more pompous? And what if you make his dad completely unlike him and that way anytime you triangulate those characters they're bumping up against each other for some reason what pablo was suggesting is that maybe carol and minussos and uh kumba are kind of the representative versions of this especially now that carol has sort of become a little closer to kumba in some ways so minussos is the niles uh crane in this particular the more even more intensified version of carol um i've never been happier

50:23Joanna Robinson:than when given the opportunity to talk about Frasier on a podcast. This is basically like, Frasier Crane is kind of like a reason why I'm a podcaster. Honestly, I love that show. I mean, he was one of our first great primordial podcasters. Genuinely, I'm like so excited to talk about Frasier. That's so funny. That's so brilliant. I missed that email and I just love that idea of, yeah, like pitting extremes. You think Carol's extreme and then you meet him in Usos. And having Kumba be the sort of John Mahoney character is really interesting. on the relation i wish but what can you do uh where's eddie and all this well we did we so that was a question i want to ask you we got some canonical answers as you were talking about in terms about how athletes work what's going on with the pets uh which is a lot of a lot of people were concerned about very concerned uh what is the origin of the frequency we now know the name of of the planet you know so it's like so are there any of these like nuggets of information um how how far on top of a mountain you can be and still hive mind beam down to a train to get them to like blow the horn you know like range and all this other stuff like that so what you know what that we haven't discussed did carol discover in her investigation this week that either went on the whiteboard or just was shared with us the audience that you found compelling i think it was the low-key very chill plan that the hive mind wants to build a giant satellite to transmit its message slash code slash whatever into space yeah pay it forward onto the next planet i mean really it's a very generous thing to do uh slightly concerning also very buffy season five you know we're just like gonna construct this giant what was it in buffy it wasn't a satellite it was like a a metal altar yeah resignation yeah it's got to channel something that's so funny i was thinking about season three of buffy earshot like the episode of earshot where it's like what does it mean to know everything that's happening all the time around you and how crazy making it's not great um but yeah the the giant antenna slash satellite has me more than a little bit concerned Worth noting, the Kepler B, the planet made almost entirely of water.

52:46Joanna Robinson:A couple questions. One, speaking of the fine filmography of Joaquin Phoenix, does this mean we won't get a sort of swing away Merrill ending, signs ending of Pluribus? Alas, I think not. They're not allergic to water. However, does that mean if a planet is almost entirely water, either this is an aquatic-based life form or something went wrong? You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, did something go wrong on this planet and it was flooded? Yes. And this is the idea of, like, colon – you know, because this is the question that people have had this whole time is, like, is this a gift or is this a way to make us docile and ready for colonization?

53:26Joanna Robinson:You know, like, what is the plan here? And I think most people are trained to think of whatever is coming from an alien source is a way to weaken us for their ultimate domination. Is that the way that alien mindsets work in the Gilliganverse? I don't know. But the planet being mostly water, I think, is information that we should store away somehow. I think there's a benign version of that too, which is, you know, they fucked their planet so badly that it got the oceans took over because of whatever, like whatever way they reshaped their world. And they are in a benign way trying to prevent other cultures and species from making the same mistake.

54:09Like, it's a little involuntary for all that. And kind of everything's being foisted in a way that doesn't always make me feel the most comfortable. But we don't know. Zosia doesn't know, or at least professes that the hive mind doesn't even really know anything about these beings at all or kind of the source of where it all came from. Joe, do you think in the history of this show, however long it runs, will we see visually a Keplerite? A Keplerite. Klepernian. clip clip clip livian uh licking the donut gmail.com if you're better at naming aliens than we are the bar is pretty low right now um will we see no i don't think we should clip weegian

54:51Joanna Robinson:i'm gonna go with clip weegian clip punion like a mancunian i like that but glass weegian is really good inspo um i don't think we should signs of the film is worse when you see the aliens uh inside well the first time you kind of see the alien though is fucking gas birthday party footage aside oh my god that's birthday yeah if the aliens want to come to earth they can only be seen kind of fuzzy and moving in at a birthday party down an alley in brazil i can't remember where that footage was from he's using spanish to talk to the children to tell them to move so i think maybe not brazil but um yeah that's one of my favorite joaquin phoenix moments of all time Honestly, that's one of my favorite Joaquin Phoenix performances.

55:38Joanna Robinson:It's really good. It's a great movie that people should respect more often. On the resources front. So, okay, we get this information that they're sleeping in massive sports arenas. Yeah. To save resources. Well, I mean, sports arena-ish. It's like a convention center. Yeah, event center. Event center. Is the right thread. Thank you so much. They said in the official pod that in the script, it was a high school gymnasium. and basically they were like dare to dream bigger like we're gonna go bigger and not only that we are going to fill this space with actual extras they did not digitally double anyone these were actually like people they hired so yes that's their price tag moment i would say is upgrading from the high school gymnasium to this uh to the monster truck rally venue exactly and filling it with actual people and dogs um also while we're in that space i just want to say that like zoja being like you can stay here with me casual no big deal if you want to sleep here it's fine while reclining on the double-sized uh bedroll i was like zoja you knew you knew that that was gonna work that's very you sultry minx like she again she's part of this whole thing she knows what game she's playing oh you want to just like we're gonna be really cool as you spoon me yeah uh no big no big kidding cash yeah i mean the whole thing is extremely extremely evolved very casual very modern post-modern maybe even joe i mean what is the hive might have not one massive polycule you know what i mean i'm so glad you laid it out that way you're absolutely right also i have to admit look the appeals of a cuddle puddle are not lost on me like this whole the whole situation does seem inviting in a way you have to get over a certain like mental hurdle to get there but it's like we're just all in this together you know we're just all in one big glob this is very la rob of you honestly i guess so i i mean i i think so like if if the idea is to save resources on heat yes why are we sleeping so far apart inside of this why are we not cuddling together for warmth this is a question that i have both physically and emotionally and metaphorically jill like why why are we all so distant from each other and not using each other as our hearth using each other as our hearth at gmail.com or as a vanity license plate holder okay so um the other thing i want to say yeah so bringing back the money shot and i would say it is it is that arena full of of people that's where the money is and the the cool gilligan verse shot of this episode i would say is the drops of the concentrate goo going into the water where initially you're like is that blood it's a question i often ask myself is that blood or is it pink lemonade turns out it's pink lemonade but you know for now until the pink lemonade needs some more seasoning and you know there's only so many places it can come from um all right anything else that we haven't mentioned that you want to make sure we call out in this episode i think just that carol not only is becoming like dispositionally a little closer to kumbha in some ways in terms of her willingness to engage but i think she's like using it as basically her new method of investigation right she's done the journalism she's gone in with her camera into the dark factories and then like dug up all the secrets she's done that thing and she's kind of taking the note of what if you just asked these people who you are convinced cannot lie to you for any reason like why wouldn't you just ask them any questions you had more flies with honey than vinegar sort of thing and if it even is honey like i think there's the honey it's pink lemonade a little sour yes but yeah i mean it's always too sweet if we're being honest about it There's no such thing as pink lemonade that isn't too sweet.

59:24Joanna Robinson:I really agree with you. Maybe that was the tell. When Zosia says, no, it's not too sweet. I know these people can lie now. I know that they could not possibly be telling the truth because it's always too sweet. Yeah. It's simply a no for me. Raspberry lemonade. Sure. Pink lemonade. Absolutely. Strawberry lemonade. Absolutely. But the pink, the ambiguous pink, it's just sugar. You know, there's not even any flavoring in there at that point. but yeah I think the like direct question and answer method gets Carol frankly like further than she's been at any point in this story and it invites other complications because the only thing greater than her want to figure out the truth is like the deep like again just like uncompromising loneliness that is slowly taking her over and so where that puts her at the end of this episode is interesting but like she kind of has to invite the hive mind in to really understand what its whole deal is.

1:00:15Joanna Robinson:Yeah, absolutely. And that's a tricky, that's a very, very tricky proposition because, you know, the seduction is afoot. Okay. But Minusos is almost here. Yes. And that presumably is what the finale will bring to us. Anything else you want to make sure we cover inside of this episode? Well, how do you feel about that element, Joe? You know, we spent a lot of time with Carol. We've seen Minusos' whole journey from Paraguay to here. how do you feel about him finally showing up in albuquerque in the finale i'm excited we've not we've not gotten to see manuso's um like have a relationship with anyone so i'm really interested to see uh you know i do find that character very compelling i do find that actor very engaging so i'm like really excited to see him have interactions as disappointed as he might wind up being with carol and and what she has succumbed to the kool-aid the pink lemonade that she's she's had some sips on like i i'm excited for them to be in partnership or be at odds with each other but i'm excited for that you know when carol like when carol went to vegas like her scenes with kumbha were so interesting so i do think that to that fraser point just like bumping these people up against each other um in a cuddle puddle way or otherwise is is you know is going to be fun and interesting to watch oh wow i hadn't i hadn't even considered minuso's just joining the matrix orgy that's that could be happening in the finale i i think that's probably improbable but seems seems like not not what he is looking for uh this is a man who is willing back is also had no shape for it but well the wounds will heal but like i think that uh the the man who is willingly engaged in our corrupt or panama's corrupt uh medical uh system health care system uh when he's like yeah give me that bill without any insurance to uh soften the blow and here's my iou yeah i didn't really pay for it that's all right you know we're softening in different increments but he does take the ambulance like he does it's true take you know he's taking some things yes i'm not begrudging it him but like you gotta do it he's we can't do this all on our own okay um i'm really excited for the finale same this is going to be i think a slightly supersized episode for us because as we mentioned we're already while also doing that mailbag uh portion of it um so that will come out i believe the um finale is dropping a little early next week because of the Christmas holiday.

1:02:51Joanna Robinson:So our podcast will be up sort of as we're pre-recording it. So we won't be able to get your feedback after the episode. We won't have the official podcast to talk about and that sort of stuff because we're going to pre-record for holiday reasons. But that podcast will drop sort of right after that episode drops on Apple. And do let us know your thoughts on the finale to lickingthedonut at gmail.com slash prestigetv at spotify.com. We're talking about maybe doing some additional pluribus content of some kind, exploring that possibility. Oh, I forgot we talked about that. That's true. We did. We did talk about that.

1:03:22Joanna Robinson:So yeah, maybe we'll do like a final, final, all of your theories and feedback ideas. You know, we love to work over the holidays. No, honestly, it's exciting. All right. Thank you to you, Rob Mahoney, for yes-ending all of my bits inside of this particular episode. Joe, we would be so proud. Thank you to Donnie Beecham for his work on this episode. Thank you, Justin Sales, for his work on this feed. Stay tuned. So on Saturday, today's Friday, this is going up because Donnie is an absolute maniac and the best. This will go up today on Friday. But the heated rivalry podcast that I recorded with Mallory early this week should be going up on Saturday.

1:04:04Joanna Robinson:So that will be coming up on this feed tomorrow. I haven't gotten a sneak preview of some of Mallory's heated rivalry thoughts recently, Joe. I'm very excited to listen to this podcast. Oh, did you? Did you, uh, are you tempted to, are you tempted to watch Heated Rivalry, Rob? What do you think? Oh, I'm extremely tempted to watch. I think it's just going to be like, I got to get through this holiday crush and then we're going to have time to actually watch TV for me. I think Heated Rivalry is going to be on the list. The thing, as you know about Mallory, is if such a property exists as Heated Rivalry, if you are in Mallory's vicinity, people are just constantly asking her for her thoughts on a show like this.

1:04:43So now we get, now we get it as a consumer product. Now I can just plug in my headphones and get both of your takes on the wrap up of the season. I can't wait.

1:04:53Joanna Robinson:All right. So that's it. We said thank you to everyone. We told you what was coming. We covered this episode of television. Have a great weekend. We'll see you soon. Bye. Bye.

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