‘Skins’ Revisited

24:59You don't see him in the pilot, but he is like a very funny, great presence on the show. Future Oscar winner, Daniel Kaluuya. But it's very rare, obviously. And I don't think it's been quite repeated in the same way for you to not only hire young writers, but to bring in teenage consultants. I remember Winnie Holtzman, the creator of My So-Called Life, which was also very well regarded for capturing the way that teens actually talked at the time, etc. She just went around and talked to teens and wrote down how they spoke and what they said and what their concerns were. She checked in with her teen cast and she would take stories from their lives and put it into the script and stuff like that.

25:39But everyone was always so dazzled by the way, how did you do this? How did you capture the way that teens talk? So she's like, well, I talk to teens. And what a novel idea. Skins UK hired teens. You know, I have some questions about the labor laws about that. But, you know, I guess if you're 18, that works. Many, many questions about the laws and practices in the making of this show. What do you think? I do think there's one of these things, though, where the idea of making your character sound like teens in theory is great. And you want that authenticity and you want that sense that like this feels real.

26:10The problem is, and I say this not to alienate any of our non-existent teen listeners. because let's be real about it, they're not listening to this podcast. You don't really want to listen to teenagers talk for 10 hours as much as you think you do. And so it's like, it needs to be sculpted and shaped and stylized and narrativized in a way, but without losing the heart of what makes it feel authentic. Speak for yourself, Rob. I promise you, you do not. What's interesting about the teen hookiness of it all is like I was reading some articles from UK publications at the time about how Skins was received when it first aired.

26:50And not just that sort of pro-clutching Parents Council quote that I read, but how they had captured their audience before they even premiered. And what they did is they utilized MySpace in a significant way, you know, in the same way that, you know, publishers are hoping BookTok will, you know, get you interested in their book before it comes out. Tales old as time. But MySpace being such a new way to connect directly to your demographic, your specific demographic that you're going for. Right. And so this is a quote from a Guardian article, a Guardian article that is called Are You Going to Roll Up for Skins?

27:25Because Skins is a UK slang for rolling papers. Right. So that's the name of the show is like is a is a drug associated. Did you did you point at the screen when we got the title drop in this episode? I heard Ron Howard say, hey, that's the name of the show. But this is what the Guardian article written in 2007 says. The first episode is yet to be aired, but Channel 4 has already bombarded us with racy trailers of attractive adolescents copping off and puking up. I'm hooked and desperate to know if skins will finally fill the eternal void in television schedules for a realistic representation of teenage life.

27:56And then a MySpace page for the show has generated huge hype online, which is essential if you're going to attract and keep today's tech-savvy teens. Clever competitions have also done their bit for Marketing Machine, offering you, the viewer, the chance to get a song and a scene, style the cast, and design the logo. So they did a real, like, for us bias sort of teen experience here. You get drugs in the first episode, naked adult neighbors. We're hitting on teachers. We're trying to lose our virginity. We're doing our best. I mean, and it worked. It does work. It got terrible reviews. Euphoria is like same.

28:36Yeah. Terrible reviews on the merits or on like the content pearl clutching? On the merits. Yeah. On the merits. And I like watching it. I think if I watched that first episode as an adult TV critic, I would be like, what what is this? I'm not that interested. You know, like, I don't think the acting is tremendous in the first episode. You know, there's there's just a lot, you know, like I could see hopefully I wouldn't do this, but I could see myself as like, if I'm like, I write for The Guardian and I don't think this is up to snuff. Like I could see that, but it was, you know, it got a huge audience and it has only grown in estimation and become sort of this cold classic status.

29:17You know, as opposed, when we'll talk about Friday Night Lights, Friday Night Lights was a critical darling from the jump, but not necessarily hit with teenagers, I would say. Speak for yourself. I mean, the Rob Mahoney's of the world are tuning in, but maybe not. You're not like other teens, Rob. Oh, wow. Thank you so much. You know, so. I would like to think, and I would say my overall impression of this episode is like, there's something cooking here. This is not a finished formula. You're right about the acting. Like, there's some really spotty moments. It's wild because Nick Holt is so good.

29:46And I'm like, this is maybe his worst acting ever. He's still so fun to watch. And like the charisma of it you buy. Like you buy that this guy could walk into a room and reel off some show tunes and like all of the girls are trying to get him to go to the party. 100%. That part is very believable. But yeah, he is reaching and grasping for control of this character. And he doesn't have it yet. But I think that's what makes some of these teen shows so appealing. It's like it's not just the young characters. It's young performers. And you're seeing them reckon with their own power. Yeah. And especially in retrospect when you see what they've later become.

30:17You're just sort of like this is so fun. Yeah. To watch them take their first sort of shaky steps. One question you had for me, especially because you've only watched the first episode of Skins, is as we're grappling with Euphoria season three, the post high school years of this show, how do these teen shows handle their cast growing older? And Friday Night Lights did a similar version of this. But what Skins UK did, which was felt revolutionary at the time, is they cycled the cast out every two years. So again, the restraint of television in the UK, we just simply could not. We're not capable of that.

30:55You meet in the first episode. And this is part of, I think part of the extreme tillation of the first episode is like, Tony's getting up to antics. His younger sister is getting up to something even more. She's been out all night. All of her makeup is smudged off. They have a routine of getting her back into the house. That was incredible big brothering. It really was. he's 16 she's like 14 so that's okay maybe terrible big brother it depends on your perspective or you know loyal big brothering right uh real real like ferris bueller energy going on here um but so effie stonem his sister is sort of the anchor of the second generation so you've got tony stonem and his friends the first two seasons effie and her friends are the second generation and then they did a third generation and in the second generation like kaya scotillero as effie Stoneham is, you know, Kai has gone on to do other things.

31:45Jack O 'Connell is in the second generation. You've got some like great, great people who popped in the second generation. Third generation didn't really hit as much. And so the final like seventh series of skins is a series of specials checking in with Cassie, Effie and Jack O 'Connell's character Cook. So like like two-parters dedicated to those characters to sort of like, how are they doing in adult life? And I think if those sort of like, how is Cassie doing in her 20s? How is Effie doing in her 20s? If those had hit better than they did, Skins might have, you know, branched off into that or something like that.

32:25There was an idea of maybe doing a Skins movie, but instead they did this sort of like wrap-up season. But that's as close as they get to sort of Euphoria series, the season three is this like season seven, Let's check in with some popular characters and see how they're doing. Also not dissimilar to the Euphoria specials, too. Right, right. Exactly. And so, again, Friday Night Lights did something similar where they're trying to cycle in new teens as we get older. But this is the question that plagues all teen dramas. It's like, how do you keep that crucial framework of high school? And, you know, the answer for Skins UK is we didn't bother and we just brought in new kids, new crops.

33:01Which I really respect. And it does take a lot of scouting and understanding of like, how do you repopulate this cast and rewriting interesting characters? You understand fully why shows don't do this because it's really hard and it takes a lot of work. But when you can pull it off and it seems like at least for one turnover, Skins really did. I mean, that's something you just have to admire. If you are a sort of generation three, third generation Skins lover and you're offended, PrestigeTV at Spotify.com. You can let me know how long I am. I mean, obviously, I didn't watch this as it was airing.

33:33I'm not in the UK. So there are many ways in which I am not at all. I mean, spiritually, you are. Mentally, emotionally. But there are many ways in which I am like, you know, and I'm the wrong generation, like not the authority on the Skins fandom. So I'm not pretending to be. But from afar, this is sort of my understanding of what happened. Can I read a couple quotes from reviews of Skins? I think we need them after hearing the parents' counsel. I need more of it. This is from The Guardian. And this is just a review of the first couple episodes of the first season. If this is designed to emphasize how truly realistic Tony et al are, the effect has been slightly muted by the decision to cast as the college lot in their sixth form, their 16 through 18-year-olds.

34:15Actors who could give Prince William elocution lessons. They're as irritating as real teenagers. I'll give them that. So you and The Guardian TV reviewer both hate teenagers is what we're getting here. I think I am an age where I'm supposed to hate teenagers. It's weird if you don't. You know? And then this is what the Times wrote. The script was good at capturing that mix of wanton self-absorption and vulnerability that makes parents want to wring their kids' necks and hug them at the same time. The series' primary aim is to entertain rather than raise issues with a helpline number at the end, unlike Euphoria.

34:49More importantly, it shows heart rather than a blink in whatever cynicism that makes it worth watching for the Space Invaders generation as well as the MySpacers. So that's sort of the check-in. And I mean, what is so revolutionary about Skins is what was going on in UK television at the time because teen dramas were much more of an American thing than they were a UK TV thing. And UK TV was, you know, far fewer options for what you're watching. There are far fewer channels. A lot of them are, you know, BBC channels, et cetera, et cetera. We're firmly in the grip of the reality television explosion.

35:30And Shameless was a show that existed. But by and large, the depictions of teens were much like far stodgier than this. And this felt realistic, even though watching it now, you're sort of like, this doesn't feel like a docudrama. Not exactly. It's put on, but it's put on in a way where, yeah, there's a germ of truth. And then we're going to create a TV show around it.

36:20We'll see you next time. 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. ZetBound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if ZetBound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop ZipBound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction.

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37:46OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. ZetBound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. ZetBound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if ZetBound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop ZipBound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction.

38:25Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experienced vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZipBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit setbound.lily.com. This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli?

39:00Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it, presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head, a backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. You want to talk about the cast? We've already talked about it a bit. Do you want to go through the murderer's row of talent here? It's frankly unbelievable. I mean, for one, just like landing Nicholas Holt as one of the leads of your show from a broadcasting search.

39:37And it seems like this was like basically an open casting call that they just rolled teenage actors through and tried to pick out the best of the litter. The fact that you can get a lineup and pick out Nicholas Holt at this point in his life is just tremendous fucking work. You're a Holt head too, right? Of course. What's the height of your Holt fandom? I'm trying to think, I mean... You're a real beast in the X-Men movie. Not a beast, nor am I that era of X-Men. I think the great might be like the peak of his power. so far. So good. He channels like a very specific kind of like very irritating quality that all of the best Nicholas Holt performances have and look, I love the Fury Roads and I even love like warm bodies.

40:16Like I think he can play sensitive very well but he can also play like full of himself in a way that Tony has and I think a lot of his characters do and he just like like in Nosferatu just like hits that register. You know, he understands how to get there, stay there, be freaked out and manic enough but also like incredibly grating in a pleasant way. I just want to underscore my Holt loyalty is such that when our pal and colleague Sean Fentessy was shit-talking Nick Holt, I made him the display photo for our group chat that talks about movies. And he's still there. No one has taken him down. Nick Holt is still as Lex Luthor.

40:51Was he being shit-talked? I feel like not to, you know, defend Sean too much, but I feel like it was just a mutual understanding that, like, this guy's playing a lot of cucks right now. You know, these are the roles that he has chosen for himself. Don't be on this podcast by defending Sean Fennessey's cook take about Nick Holtz. Is Tony Stoneham a cook? Well, anyway. Not yet. We didn't find out. Maybe by the end he will be. But yeah, I think like the benefits of doing this sort of casting call are just like so apparent. Having like a diverse cast that doesn't feel like a college brochure that's been like planned for diversity.

41:27Right. You just I mean, if you if you want to cast your teen show with a jock out of central casting, you're going to get jock out of central casting energy when it's time to actually say the lines. And these do feel like real kids performing, but like the real kid part of it, you kind of can't take out of them. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right to single out Dev Patel and his like extreme gangliness inside of these early, these first two seasons. I want more of him in this episode, but him trying to have a big gay night out and it blowing up in his face is all. That's honestly a great place to start.

41:59I also love, I also think Joe Dempsey is really, really good as Chris. I'm a big fan of Joe Dempsey on the show. But Hannah Murray is really the standout for me. And like she hasn't obviously had as big a career as Dev or Daniel or Nick. Yes. But Cassie is just such an indelible teenage character to me. and I just think she has something so special inside of, there is this sort of like manic pixie dream girl, you know, energy to her, but something just - It's a little different. It's daffier than that. And it's just like really watchable. I think she's so incredible. I'm with you. I mean, she's written a lot about her, I think she recently published a memoir where she's talked about some of her own like mental health struggles and stuff like that and how that's impacted her acting life.

42:51Um, and so I'm not, I'm not, um, surprised that she hasn't had a bigger career given the aspects of her personal life that she has, has shared very publicly. But, um, I wish, uh, for her to have more, um, because it's sort of a thankless role on Thrones and it doesn't really, um, highlight, uh, with love and respect to Gilly, doesn't really highlight what she's capable of here. But I would say even in Game of Thrones, some of that is there. There is a warmth and a generosity of performance, not just like the character. That's just a person I want to see in a lot of different contexts bouncing off of all sorts of different actors.

43:32And I mean, that usually is the answer, right? When you're looking at a clear talent where their career hasn't quite gone the way you'd expect. It's like they've got stuff going on in their lives. They've got a lot to navigate in addition to all the professional trials and tribulations that everyone else does. I would have liked a different life for her in terms of her acting career. With Joe Dempsey, it did occur to me, Skins, Game of Thrones, Doctor Who. Is that the Brit triple crown? That is a Brit triple crown. I think there are a couple other, like EastEnders is like a thing you can do. I don't know.

44:04There's some other options. I don't mean in terms of glamour. I just mean in terms of like, it's hitting three very specific. EastEnders is glamour. Fair. I think if you show up on Taskmaster, that's a thing that we care a lot about. right uh has he done a a literary adaptation like an austin or a dickens something you can do call you when he's done a costume drama is what you're saying i mean what is thrones if not a costume drama to a certain degree but yeah call me when you put on a cravat joe dempsey question we were asking because daniel kalia is again a fairly minor character inside of these seasons.

44:42Really fun, but fairly minor. But is the Oscar winner like out of this cast? Yes. And so a question you were asking me, actually, as it pertains to Friday Night Lights, but we'll talk about that cast. But you were like, who is the Jesse Plemons? Like who is the minor person in this cast in Euphoria who is going to pop yours down the line? And it's not Sidney Sweeney or Jacob Elordi or Zendaya. It's someone we didn't see coming. I talk about this all the time, like Bradley Cooper on Alias. Yeah. Like, you know, like fifth build on Alias and like pop. This happens all the time that like a background actor or like a fifth build or whatever will pop.

45:19So do you have, I have my answer, but do you have an answer of like who in Euphoria? I mean, maybe as Maddie's number one boy, you're going to stump for Alexa. I mean, I really hope, but she's almost too prominent for I think what we're talking about. Like Landry in Friday Night Lights is a very likable character who becomes more prominent as the show goes on. Just because Plemons was so good. Yeah, it was just kind of like a force of will and gravitational pull. Yeah. But I don't know that Euphoria has one. And granted, I'm not sure many people in shows and movies have a Jesse Plemons in them just like hanging out in the background.

45:50And this is where my answer to you was Austin Abrams. Yes. Who's not in season three. Got really backgrounded in season two until he like showed up in the play and got a time to shine. But like I really loved him from the start on Euphoria playing Ethan. he's showed up in like a few things but his career is really taking off weapons he was fantastic in and then he's going to be in the new Resident Evil he's the lead in the new Resident Evil huge moment in here for him in that particular regard I think he's I love Austin Abrams especially when he showed up in weapons as this like you know drug addict, like, nerdy well, whatever.

46:35That's how you describe him, nerdy well. She's emotionally in the UK all the time, but he, I was like, this is a role that Timothee Chalamet thinks he's too big to take, and he is. But Austin Abrams is like, I'll take it. There's a vacuum. And I'll do it. Timmy's just doing Dune and Marty Supreme now. Give me those Timmy roles from five years ago and I'll do them. You're saying Timmy has broken through the ceiling and all of the other Timmy's are just like, can we climb up through here? But I think he's going to be like alpha second wave Timmy. I could see it. I mean, he does have some of the same appeal, like slightly different energy.

47:13Look, I'm very excited to see him in Resident Evil. I also did note that Kaya Scodelario was in a I don't know if you saw the Resident Evil movie she was in. No. It's like horrendously bad. Pirates of the Caribbean that she was in. I mean, she seems to have a tough run up there. She's made some choices. She's made some choices and I haven't seen the later skin stuff that you mentioned and but you can even tell from this pilot it's like oh yeah she's great that's a character that i'm like i do want to spend more time with and understand what her whole deal is but yeah it's uh do do not watch the resident evil movie that she appears in as claire redfield it's it's not good she was really good in uh the gentleman the netflix show that came out um is ongoing but she is the the female lead of that and that was like when she showed up in that the Guy Ritchie show with Theo James etc I was like oh finally something that she like for her to show what she can do with love and respect to the Maze Runner franchise but like this is the thing is like do you have love and respect for the Maze Runner franchise?

48:10I don't. Well then why are we giving it? Why are we just handing it away? I just. Joe I want more for you than just for you to give your love all willy nilly to the Maze Runner Here's the problem with the Maze Runner franchise As we're talking about sort of launching pads for teens, I love Dylan O 'Brien. Dylan O 'Brien comes out of Teen Wolf and he does like the Maze Runner franchise. Kaia does the Maze Runner franchise. Thomas Brody-Sangster does the Maze Runner franchise. Like it should have been the Hunger Games for the Twilight for these very talented kids. Like they cast it well and it just never hit the way that some of these other teen franchises can hit.

48:45And so just like Dylan O 'Brien has been in like a weird holding pattern for a long point in his career and like is finally, I think, you know, blowing up. Send Help is on Hulu if you want to watch it. I actually did catch up on it. I'm very excited. I think you would really enjoy it. But like Kai, I've been waiting and the gentleman was a good start, but she deserves even more. But I mean, these actors often do need those sorts of platforms. And I'm not like, from a professional standpoint, as a young actor, getting in a giant franchise like The Maze Runner. With hate and disrespect to The Maze Runner in your heart.

49:17But it's very popular. It makes a lot of money. Hugely popular books. Yes. You know, like on paper, it felt like a great decision. And that's where you develop those relationships with those actors. It's like the first time I saw Austin Abrams was in Paper Towns, which is not a very good adaptation of a book that I've never read. I was about to say, you seem like a real John Green guy. But then I remembered you're not a novel guy at all. I'm not a novel guy. But you are a John Green guy. I do appreciate John Green's perspective. I enjoy his podcasting work. I enjoy his perspective on the world.

49:42Yeah. My main takeaway from watching that movie was like, how did they get two Nat Wolfe's in this? Yeah. And that's kind of, that's the Chalamet, Austin Abrams lane. It's true. It's true. He did double Nat Wolfe in that. Yeah. I mean, Austin Abrams did Dash and Lily on Netflix, which was like a very much, I don't know. I'm really, I have my eye on him. I think he's going to do big things. I really do. Well, if we take this alumni group for Skins, I agree with you. like Daniel Kaluuya is an incredible talent. Again, someone who I also just wish was in even more stuff than he's already in. He's in quite a bit.

50:13But between Holt Kaluuya, Dev Patel, Jack O 'Connell, when we're looking back at this generation of actors in 30 years, who do you think is like the standout, if there is one, of that group? Because they're all still quite young. Absolutely. So if I had to pick one right now in 2026, it's Jack O 'Connell. Yeah, I mean, he's having quite a year. If I have to like speak truth to my heart, it's Nick Holt. But I just have a lot of loyalty to Nick Holt. I support him in all of his endeavors. I can't be mad about that. What's your. You are a Lex Luthor person. I love Dev Patel. Like I love Dev Patel.

50:47He's making some baffling choices. Yes. But like and I'm with the Internet that's like Dev Patel make a rom-com. Like absolutely. That would be wonderful. Dev Patel should have been Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights. I would have loved that. Like there's there's a lot that Dev Patel is not doing that I would like to see him do. But I'll just rewatch The Green Knight in the meantime and have a good time. I will rewatch it every day for the rest of my life and have a wonderful moment. That's kind of what he needs. It's like Nick Holt and Daniel Kaluuya have worked with, and I would say Jack O 'Connell too, like some very impressive visual directors.

51:16Dev Patel has had some of that experience, but also like caught some of them on their worst days in terms of some of the movies they've made. His own vehicle for himself, like you get the motivation behind it and what he was trying to do with Monkey Man. I really wanted that to go and it just didn't. It's a hard thing to do. Mallory and I, we went to the premiere at South By and we were just sort of like, and the whole room was just vibrating with excitement. And then we watched the movie and we were like, yeah, the bones are here. The idea is here. And watch Dev talk, like Dev got on stage and talked about like the way in which he practically killed himself in order to make that movie.

51:48He's like, and then I nearly lost a finger. And then I did this. And I was like, Dev Patel, don't kill yourself. We need you. And please don't kill yourself for Monkey Man of all things. Yes. So, yeah. But he can be quite dashing in A Green Knight, if also kind of a failure in his way in that movie. But I also like him in the sort of like in over his head, kind of neurotic, like newsroom style roles too. I think he can play all sides of that spectrum in a way where I just don't understand why he's not one of the biggest deals on the planet even right now. This is why one of my own like few graphic tees I own is Dev Patel Summer because I'm like a huge Dev fan.

52:23on the jack o 'connell front i will say like the first because i had not seen him in skins the first thing that he did that caught my attention was start up which is an incredible uh like prison movie and i think for people who watched him on skins to watch him do this incredibly adult like uh harrowing violent sort of film was was a huge deal but for him to do that um to do talking about literary adaptations dev has done a dickens yeah and jack o 'connell has done lady Charlie's lover and he's fantastic in that. That deserved way more attention than it got. You know, and then now he's in the sort of like Sinners 28 years later, you know, is going to do a Godzilla and Kong movie, ill-advised.

53:05When has that ever been a good idea? Okay, don't turn your nose up at Godzilla versus Kong. We respect both Godzilla and Kong on this podcast. It's like Godzilla X Kong. Well, now they're not exactly enemies. I don't know if you caught up with the last movie, but like there was another Ice Godzilla and an Ice Kong. Oh yeah, it's a whole thing. Yeah, it's a real adventure. It's very, Joe, there is an extended sequence in the Godzilla vs. Kong sequel. Okay. In which Dan Stevens has to be basically a giant dentist for King Kong. Like, that's a plot point in the movie. Someday we'll have our reckoning with Dan Stevens and what's going on there.

53:41That's not the problem. Is it not? Godzilla vs. Kong, he is amazing in. And they're genuinely very fun movies. So, you know, I support that. Okay, so it's Godzilla, alongside Kong, the new empire is the 2024 one that you're really into. I think both of the first two are good for the record. Okay, great. Good to know that this is your garbage cinema. Charles Dickens eats shit. This is your garbage cinema. Godzilla and Kong can come play. Godzilla and Kong supernova is what we're talking. and they've got Caitlin Deaver, Dan Stevens, Jack O 'Connell, Delroy Lindo, Sam Neal and Matthew Modine. Okay.

54:25Where's the problem here? I have a lot of problems. A Quiet Place Part 3, Jack O 'Connell is also doing. I have some questions about it. And then Ink. I'm just, I'm really rooting for all of these Skins kids. But I think Jack O 'Connell just like really has some juice and he's got some real momentum right now. He's got a lot of fire under him in terms of his career in a way that Daniel Kaluuya did and has at various points. But it seems like he's made some trade-offs and some choices as far as what he wants to be doing with his life. I think this is partially like from the interviews that I've read, this is partially like his choice to sort of, I don't want to be as much.

55:00Yeah. The height of that, the heat of like the height of. I mean, get out Black Panther. Like that era, that's a lot. A lot to handle. Yes. And so he's just sort of like, let's just calm down. Let me be spider punk, you know. He's so good at that. It's amazing. Where's my Spider-Punk movie? How similar is Spider-Punk to, I guess it's quite different than Posh Kenneth. Very different energies. Night and day. What do you want for Nick Holt? And why doesn't he have an Oscar yet? What do I want? I mean, I am eager about the Superman sequel and the idea of him having like an even juicier. Superman X Lex.

55:34Right. Not V Lex. Shaky alliances. I mean, we love a shaky alliance. Were you the one who were like, you were reporting that your parents are watching Young Sherlock? They are watching Young Sherlock. And you were really upset to learn that Sherlock and Moriarty are friends? You don't have to air me out.

55:52It's just like, if you're going to make a Young Sherlock show, guess what? They're going to be teenage friends. Yeah. Superman and Lex have been friends on Smallville, but I'd love to see them be friends again. I was in the trenches with Smallville, but I'm happy to say that Nick Holt is one of the best Lex representations we've had on screen. Oh, really? I think he's been very good. So I am looking forward to that sequel. I don't know what the small-scale project I want for him is because he has tried a lot of stuff. Yeah. He has dabbled in many genres, many types of parts. He's not in Verwolf, is he?

56:23I don't think so. I think he did Nosferatu and packed up his leather satchel and went on his way. But the cravats. What are you supposed to do with all those cravats? He was in the J.R.R. Tolkien biopic, Tolkien that nobody watched. So there is that. He did do that. He is in a project that I'm excited about and you don't give a shit about, which is the David Leitch film How to Rob a Bank. Nick Holt, Anna Sawai, Zoe Kravitz. I mean, look, David Leitch knows how to sap the life out of a talented cast. Like that is something Pete Davidson is also here. That he has the power to do. I'm excited. I'm excited for that.

57:01Yeah, I don't think that one's going to work. But how dare you? You love Anna Sawai. You're going to show up. I love Zoe Kravitz. I love the entire cast that you listed, but like, what are we doing with David Leitch? Come on. He's also in, he's also the star of Tom Ford's, you know, I mentioned A Single Man, which is a Tom Ford film that I love and own on physical media and will watch a million times. And yet you're not a nocturnal animals person. Remember how betrayed you were to find out that I was not? I really thought we were going to be on that island together. But you abandoned me. You were all alone.

57:29You ruined me. Just you and young Moriarty together forever. But yeah, this is a Tom Ford film, Cry to Heaven, based on a 1982 Anne Rice. So like peak cocaine Anne Rice era. I think this is going to be great. I think anything that is somebody's peak cocaine era is great Nicholas Holt material. Nick Holt and Nocturnal Animals' own Golden Globe winner Aaron Taylor Johnson. Let's go. All right, sounds great. Anything else you want to say? We've kind of gone far afield, but anything else you want to say about Skins? I mean, I do think we at least need to acknowledge some of the ways that all of this stuff about like, oh, this is controversial.

58:05Oh, this is boundary pushing. This is edgy. And it's like, also a lot of the performers, especially the women who are on the show, were like, this made me deeply uncomfortable to do, especially in retrospect. I mean, it's not great. And this is the thing where it's like, you want to make a teen show where the characters feel like they have a lot of autonomy, right? And I think this is an area where euphoria feels to me, I'm not behind the scenes. I don't see everything going on with the production, feels slightly different. You hear conversations about like, oh, Sidney Sweeney said she wanted to draw the line here.

58:35And so they did. And they took out these scenes. They changed these plot lines. They cut out some of the nudity, even though that may seem ridiculous to think about when you watch Euphoria. Yeah, Sidney Sweeney has drawn lines. Believe it or not, they did take things out of Euphoria. But the idea that these, again, very teenage performers were on a show in which they were dictated like, and the women have said like, I showed up to set on day one and they're like, the first thing you're shooting is a sex scene. at a point in time where there was really no oversight about this kind of stuff. It does feel a little gross.

59:02Something that Daniel Kaluuya said in that interview that I was reading where he talked, he said they did not give the cast the scripts until right before they shot. And I was like, but why? Yeah. But why? That's the thing. If it's for that reason, so that young, impressionable, at the beginning of their career, actors can't protest. Can't get in the room and say no. Yeah. And I think like young actors, like I don't want to take away like their choices. Like they get to make those calls. I think a lot of young actors are game for a lot of different things, but you have to give them a chance to prepare for it.

59:35And like physically, emotionally, in terms of their character and their work, there's just like little stuff about the background of the show that in reading. And I'm like, like April Pearson, who plays Michelle posted this thing where she literally was looking at the script for this episode, right? Like looking back at the script for the pilot and the way Michelle is described in the script is quote, jailbait beautiful wearing a tiny skirt and top. And it's like, I understand very different time and place. Like different things were kind of flying under the radar in a lot of different respects.

1:00:02But like, that's just gross in any time. That being part of the show, I think is unfortunate and inextricable. And also part of the shock value of the whole thing as far as like, yeah, these are real teenagers who I also want to note, I think a big part of this is the difference in the age of consent in the UK versus here and what adulthood means and is. there's like this gray area of like, yes, you are technically 16 years old and thus in the UK you are an adult and you can do and show things on TV as a result of that that just like would not really happen here. Right. But also are you an adult in every other sense of that word?

1:00:35It's just, it's a little, it's a little too gray for me at times. I think this is a good opportunity for us to shout out one of the other shows that we were thinking of doing, which is Normal People, which when you watch this show and any of the, and Euphoria for that matter, Like, I think the, you know, like, sexiest, steamiest of all of those is Normal People, a show that was done with extreme care and, you know, intimacy coordination at every step of the way. And those young actors have talked about the way in which even though this was a, like, first project for them, they were treated with the utmost respect.

1:01:12And it's just sort of like, and then they generated, like, a thing that got a lot of people through COVID, you know? And so it could be done without this disgusting aspect. Even just with the bare minimum considerations. I know we've kind of gone around the bend on the whole intimacy coordinator conversation. And different performers and different people feel so differently about what should be necessary in that room. Whatever you feel is necessary, Skins didn't have it, I can assure you, based on reading about it. Not even the option of it. Nope. No. All right. Anything else you want to talk about?

1:01:41I think we covered most of it. I mean, again, all of that said, I still am very interested in watching more of the show and understanding more of these characters. It's just I'm I am clutching my pearls just like everyone else, I guess. It's a rite of passage, Rob. You're officially old now. Welcome. We will be back with more euphoria, of course. Live on Sunday nights. Live, not really, but instant-ish reactions on Sunday nights. The panic is there. The discomfort of watching that show with your coworkers is there. Please tune in to find out. I mean, that's really the most euphoria experience possible.

1:02:15It's like, how do you go into a weird, vulnerable, sexual place in a room with a bunch of people you work with? That's just what it is. That's Sunday nights here at Sycamore Studios. And then we'll be covering more Widow's Bay coming up. Episode four, Widow's Bay is an absolute banger. So I'm really excited for us to cover that. And then we'll be checking with Friday Night Lights at the end of the month, Texas Forever, Rob. What a lineup. I mean, what are we doing? Just enjoying ourselves. Who's programming this thing? Thank you. To Dev, our very own Dev, not Patel. It's Dev Ronaldo summer as far as I'm concerned.

1:02:47Every summer. Get the shirts made. Thanks to Jacob who is here. Thank you to everyone. Thank you to Kai Grady who is not here but here always in spirit. Thank you to Rob Mahoney. Thank you, Joe. Thank you to the traumatized teens of the United Kingdom. Thanks to the flip phone. Yeah. Thank you to 10 to 12 layered tank tops. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Thank you to the overworked flat irons. We appreciate you, MySpace. They need a rest. Tom from MySpace, you're my friend forever. Bye.