‘The Pitt’ Season 2, Episode 10: Seventh Circle of Hell

4:52Rob:Winds are worst enemy. Okay. In addition to emailing us, how can folks get more Prestige TV content from us?

5:02Jo:If you really need more.

5:03Rob:Yeah, do you need more?

5:04Jo:You can find us on social media, including Instagram and TikTok, at PrestigeTVPod. Also still on YouTube, on the Ringer TV channel. Come check us out. Come leave comments. Come talk to us about furries or ramen or whatnot. If you want to get a TV prescription from us. You can also do that.

5:20Rob:You can call us 909-313-4046. That's 909-313-4046.

5:27Jo:And we will write those prescriptions to ourselves for insurance fraud reasons, but then give them to you to help you out.

5:34Rob:Javani, what a stickler. All right. Rob Mahoney, did you like this episode of television?

5:37Jo:I did. Yeah. I mean, how could you not? It's fine. Yet again, all of the pit marks. I don't know if it's just that we're watching this right now, and I'm also watching Love Story right now, but moms, I mean, they're really doing a number on us, aren't they?

5:50Rob:They really are.

5:51Jo:They're everywhere. Oh, wow.

5:52Rob:You're in your Jackie O era.

5:54Jo:I mean, that show cannot get out of its Jackie O era no matter what happens to Jackie O, frankly.

6:00Rob:Rob is catching up on Love Story because we're hoping to cover it on this feed. So we will be back, hopefully, with some Love Story once Rob catches up. I'm excited.

6:07Jo:That's a guarantee. Okay, we will be back. But also, I would say my main takeaway from this episode, Joe, I'm curious to know if you feel similarly. I am ready to fight Dr. Robbie.

6:17Rob:This is Dr. Robbie's, okay. Last week I said it was a really good episode for Dr. Robbie. This is the angriest I've ever been at Dr. Robbie. Yeah. Just because I think Dr. Mel King has had like kind of a tough season with just sort of like my deposition, my deposition. I'm glad that it's done. She's moving into this storyline with her sister. But Mel has previously been my favorite. But I think Samira has really been my favorite this season. my weird emotional attachment to Dr. Langdon aside, let's just move that to the side. Samir is my favorite. For Robbie, I have a whole lot of thoughts on this, but for Robbie, who himself had a panic attack in the ER last season.

6:56Jo:Last season.

6:57Rob:Near 10 months ago.

6:58Jo:And required a pep talk.

7:00Rob:From Whitaker.

7:01Jo:Just to get up off the ground. Yeah.

7:04Rob:He could have just sat with her and quietly talked to her about Faith or whatever, but instead he jeered at her.

7:08Jo:Yes.

7:08Rob:I was so angry.

7:10Jo:We have a lot of time for Robbie. We defend him a lot on this pod. We sing his praises on this pod. There's a lot to like about this man, this character. And I think in his heart, seems like a good guy. Also, fuck you, man.

7:21Rob:Yeah, absolutely. Fuck you. Just complete fuck you. And he apologizes, but not very well.

7:25Jo:Apologizes, but also like quit feeling sorry for yourself.

7:28Rob:Apology, not accepted, Dr. Robbie. Okay. Come on. Let me hit some emails really quickly before we get into the meat, the like meat of this episode. Okay.

7:35Jo:If we must.

7:36Rob:If we must. Okay. Furry diagnostics. I did ask our listeners to let us know what they thought our fursonas would be. Do you regret that decision? Actually, all of mine were quite palm-pantry. Thank you. So I'm not upset about it. Did you see anything that struck your fancy of the way in which our listeners diagnosed us?

7:55Jo:I did appreciate I was diagnosed multiple times as a potential otter. I'm open to it.

8:01Rob:I also saw llama for you, which I quite liked.

8:03Jo:I would dig a llama. Yeah.

8:04Rob:I got a lot of fox myself. Yes. and red panda came up a lot for me as well which I don't I mean I love red panda an incredible animal absolutely Kathleen said Joanna red panda rob llama both animals are wonderful funny and worthy of appreciation plus drugs based on llama antibodies are being tested in medicine wow long necked and useful rob mahoney

8:24Jo:people do say that what are llama antibodies being tested for like what is their practical application

8:30Rob:drsibanks at gmail.com if you know what llamas are being used for

8:33Jo:I just hope it's not an avatar-esque whale brain serum, like erectile dysfunction drug or whatever the fuck that was being used for?

8:41Rob:Is that what the whale brains in Avatar are being used for?

8:45Jo:Maybe I'm misremembering Avatar.

8:46Rob:You couldn't have paid me to pay attention to what they were mining those whales for. Okay. We got an email from a listener whose name is also Joanna, but it's not me. I did not write this email. This is about Ogilvy. And this is a great episode to talk about. Absolutely. But something you and I had talked about off pod, but not really brought onto the mic was this question of, is Ogilvy being presented to us as another, like along with Becca and Mel, like another example of neurodivergence and should we be looking at him through that lens? And we got this email from our listener, Joanna, who said that she's a mom of low support needs, adult autistic daughter.

9:24Rob:And I've been wanting to email you as I think you might need to consider slash reframe the idea that Ogilvy is on the autistic spectrum, just as Mel appears to be. Not that it permits his seemingly insensitive and oftentimes rude behavior, but it seems to explain his manner. Super smart, potentially not corrected for his behavior as a younger person. So he continues to voice these insensitive comments. And she also goes on to talk about the way in which men who are neurodivergent and women who are neurodivergent sort of present differently and are socially like sort of trained to present differently and stuff like that.

9:54Rob:Which I thought was a really interesting email. Definitely. Something you and I had talked about off pod, but something I was sort of waiting for the actor himself to say, hey, this is how I'm playing this character. And then there was this interview that he did on the official Pitt podcast from February 27th where he.

10:12Jo:This is Lucas Iverson you're talking about.

10:14Rob:This is Lucas Iverson who plays Ogilvy. Thank you. He's talking about how he approaches the character. And he says, John, John Wells, quote, John Wells comes in and he's like, yeah, Lucas, you're looking too sympathetic. You really don't give a shit. You don't give a shit. And I was just like, really? Okay, I'll look meaner. But then on a little break that we had when we were setting up another shot, I mustered my courage because I was so afraid to talk to him. And I went up and I was like, John, hey, am I being too much of an asshole? And John was like, you're not being nearly enough of an asshole.

10:42Rob:Your job is to be the biggest fucking asshole. And he gave me this whole breakdown about what a gunner is and what this gunner really is. And then Dr. Lizzie, who also was there, who's one of our incredible doctors that we have on set, real-life emergency physician, she contributed with these stories about what gunners are and what they've been. And we probably spent eight or nine minutes, and I was just, like, soaking it up like a sponge. And we ended up going back and shooting a scene again so I could be even worse. That sort of began my hate relationship with Ogilvy. I really hated that guy for a really long time.

11:10Rob:He is somebody who I think represents a kind of ideology that is kind of prominent in today's world, which is, I believe you could summarize him by saying, he believes that people are largely directly responsible for the state of their lives. He's so certain of it, even though it's really flimsy. And over the course of the shift, it chips away. And he slowly learns that that worldview is not exactly compatible with reality. So I don't think he's been given the note to play Ogilvy anywhere on the spectrum.

11:37Jo:Perhaps not. Or maybe isn't talking about it yet.

11:40Rob:Maybe not talking about it yet. I've seen this comment a lot. Like you and I were talking about it off pod. This listener wrote in about it. I've seen people sort of all over like Reddit and various comments saying like, hey, is Ogilvy like a neurodivergent character? And I I'll be curious to see if he ever says that that's how he's playing it. But there is this. I've also seen comments from people saying who have worked in hospitals who are like, actually, Ogilvy is the only accurate med student. Everyone is so nice and kind in the pit. and he's an accurate representative of like what a lot of med students are like.

12:11Jo:The realistic The Pit is just like eight Ogilvy's.

12:14Rob:Yeah, horrifying. So I'll be curious to track it, but I thought that was worth raising because I've seen it a lot. And I hesitate to sort of diagnose someone who has not been diagnosed inside of the world of The Pit. So any other thoughts you have on that?

12:31Jo:I think where I am with Ogilvy is like, why are these things mutually exclusive? Can't he be, per email or Joanna's description, the kind of gunner who's been encouraged to be a know-it-all his whole life, who also might display some aspects of neurodivergence and the way those things are kind of colliding, whether it's intentional in the performance or not, I do think is there in the writing of the character. And I think where all the other characters in the pit are having a hard time with Ogilvy, the other doctors who are working alongside him, is in trying to sand down these kind of sharper edges in terms of his comportment with patients.

13:02Jo:And that's one of those areas where it really doesn't matter what the cause is, right? Whether you are a purposeful asshole or merely careless and oblivious or not picking up on the appropriate cues. Like these are people coming into the ED in a very vulnerable place. And like you have to receive them in that spirit, no matter what's going on in your brain and what's going on in your body. And everyone in the pit is dealing with something different. And Ogilvy may be in that mix or he may be dealing with something we haven't quite seen before, but he's got to sort his shit out.

13:30Rob:I regret to inform you, Rob.

13:31Jo:Yeah.

13:32Rob:that I'm a little up on Ogilvy in this episode and we can talk about it when we get there.

13:37Jo:I don't think he's been more relatable than being handed a disembodied leg and the look of just like, Jesus Christ, can this day please stop?

13:46Rob:We got several emails from listeners who wanted to let me know that there was a Bay Area connection to the water slide accident. There was an incident, Waterworks, in Concord, California, where a bunch of, I think it was like teenagers in the 90s, all tried to pile on to a water slide to see if they could like go down together, whatever, and it collapsed. So something like that. And then we got an email from a listener from Minneapolis about the sort of potential ICE storyline if it has not deployed yet. And Stacey said, as a Minneapolis resident, we have seen well-documented local news reports regarding the presence of ICE entering restricted areas of hospitals and detaining patients without proper judicial warrants.

14:28Rob:I could see this being part of the quote ICE storyline on the pit. So it's possible that we haven't even seen what they have in mind for something like this.

14:35Jo:I could see that being possible. Also, The Pit is filmed in a way where it could be somewhat responsive in real time if they chose to. If they're still filming right now. One of the later episodes of the season, potentially. Also, it could be a season three thing. I guess we'll find out.

14:47Rob:It could. Okay. This is something we had touched on last week, but a lot of our listeners are like, hey, I wish you would spend more time on this. Which is, and again, we're about to talk about how angry we are at Dr. Robbie, but Dr. Robbie's suicide watch. which is, you know, something that we saw pop up a bit in last week's episode, the way that he was talking to, like, Whitaker about, hey, take over my place, the way that he was talking to Abbott, and that scene that we really liked between Robbie and Abbott, where Abbott's like, hey, man, if it gets dark, you know, you call me.

15:17Jo:Did not agree to call him. Just kind of smiled creepily and walked off.

15:22Rob:Here's my question. After this 10 o 'clock hour where both, like, Dr. El-Hashimi and Dana are like, hey, man, what's your damage? Yeah. It's 4 o 'clock in the afternoon. or now it's five o 'clock in the afternoon. What might happen the next five episodes other than him deciding like no one can take care of the ED except as well as he can?

15:39Jo:That's a healthy impulse.

15:41Rob:Not a great life lesson. Like to pull him back from any kind of brink. Like what, you know, is this something that you think would be resolved at the end of the season? Or is this just going to be an ongoing Dr. Robbie thing? Because in season one, he ends up the season on top of the roof, you know, that Dr. Abbott basically talks him down from. So is this just going to be like, Dr. Robbie's ongoing state. But I guess my main question, and perhaps inspired by the fact that Duke has entered the building, is Robbie going on this motorcycle trip?

16:10Jo:It's a great question. I can see from a TV perspective, it would be very tempting to have the dangling, like Robbie is off into the wind. Who knows what is going to happen at the end of the season? And it leaves you a lot of flexibility in terms of how you set up season three to not be quite so sure what state he's going to come back in. I kind of think he's just not going to go.

16:29Rob:Yeah.

16:29Jo:And frankly, Duke, in addition to everyone else, raising the idea like, hey, man, driving 12 or driving all night after a 12 hour shift is a distinctly horrible idea that no one, including I, would ever do.

16:41Rob:Yeah.

16:42Jo:And I think enough people are going to raise it. We're just going to become so conspicuous. How could he possibly do it? Not that he will check himself, but there has to be some kind of restraint here from somebody.

16:51Rob:OK, I'll be very curious. I mean, it would be interesting. let's see, like a season of The Pit without, not like Dr. Robbie on his trip. Yes. Noah Wiley, not the lead actor on The Pit in season three, but maybe like doing much more behind the scenes work or something like that. Taking a break from being like the guy all the time on a show that's kind of relentless. And then, oh, I don't know. Dr. Abbott is leading the shift next season. Could be right there.

17:15Jo:An Abbott-El-Ashimi like duo leading the ED. I could see it. Also, this is an extra textual thing. And so if you don't like that stuff, like jump ahead 15 seconds. I feel like leading into this season during some of the press touring coverage with the cast Noah Wiley had some like weirdly cryptic comments about like I'm gonna miss this some things that like if you took them in just the right way could imply that maybe that character will not be back in the near future I just don't know what this show is without him for as much as we love Abbott I think there is like a little bit of a there's like a backup quarterback thing happening there where he comes in he gets to be awesome in limited deployment but like this is a Dr.

17:52Jo:Robbie show

17:53Rob:I agree. I don't really want a third season without him, but I was curious if the pit would want to take that swing or if Noah Wiley might want to take a nap. I don't know.

18:02Jo:I would love that for him. I also think there's the question of not only could this show exist in a season three without Robbie as a full-time character, but can it exist in any continuing form without Robbie as a damaged character, right? Like a mentally healthy version of Dr. Robbie, who is that guy and what - Do we want it? Do we want it? I honestly don't know.

18:21Rob:I was wondering if like at the end of the season, if he, instead of getting on the motorcycle, like walks into the therapist's office, like that's, that's how Dr. Robbie ends the season. Maybe. I also had another idea for the, for the finale. Yes. What if like, so what time are we going to finish this shift? Nine o 'clock, right?

18:40Jo:I believe so.

18:40Rob:Cassie has a museum date, so hopefully she makes that. But like, what if some of the characters are watching the fireworks together, like on the roof of the, of the pit or something like that?

18:48Jo:That would be very sweet. It would be a nice way to reclaim the roof for something other than potential suicide.

18:54Rob:It would be nice. Okay. Let's talk a little bit more about this tough episode for one Dr. Michael Rabinovich. So we also got some listener feedback about the Whitaker-Robbie interaction last week. You had underlined this idea that Robbie was crossing some boundaries when it came to his opinions on Whitaker's life. But our listeners had an even stronger reaction to that, where they were just like, this is weird and out of control and especially ironic for Robbie to be talking about, hey, create some boundaries. And inside this episode, we get Dana talking to Langdon about boundaries. We get McKay talking to Javadi about boundaries, these sort of like emotional walls that you have to put up in order to be great at your job.

19:39Rob:And perhaps this is part of why Robbie struggles so much is that he doesn't have these solid boundaries, these solid walls. But is there anything -

19:46Jo:You're telling me his weakness is that he cares too much?

19:48Rob:Listen, I put it on every single job application. But I'm just curious, like, is there anything else you want to say about that particular Whitaker-Robbie reaction last week or anything about this episode?

19:59Jo:I think there is a version of the Whitaker-Robbie relationship where that kind of advice would feel a little more well-founded. Yeah. But given who they are to each other, even though they have this, like, workplace bond, it just felt like such a clear overstep. And you're right, the context of it, of like, Like of all people, Dr. Robbie's just not in a position to give this advice. So this is kind of an awkward position for him across the ED right now of he is blowing up at people left and right. He is in such an unhealthy place himself that it's like, yeah, you can swoop into an ER and tell them exactly what they need to do from a medicinal standpoint to treat a patient.

20:35Jo:Outside of that, my guy, I don't know that you need to be telling anyone else how to live their life.

20:39Rob:And who is he deciding to intervene for? And who is he deciding not to intervene for? Like Dan is like, hey, man, maybe you should talk to Javadi and her mom. And Dr.

20:46Jo:Shamsi, yeah.

20:47Rob:About like how they feel, how appropriate is this dressing down. We did get a lot of listener feedback about that Javadi case last week where a lot of our listeners, and I saw this sort of around where people are saying, Victoria is still a student doctor. Yep. And Whitaker was the supervising doctor on that case. So if anyone should get most of the shit about what happened there, it should be Whitaker. Like Victoria, like Javadi should get some feedback, but it's not all on her. She's a student and she's still learning. And I thought that was really interesting, especially since we doubled down on someone just like smacking her over the nose with a rolled up newspaper about what happened last week.

21:22Rob:So I thought that was really interesting to think. I hadn't really. It's so easy to think of Victoria as a doctor when, you know, she's Dr. J, but she's not Dr. Javadi yet.

21:32Jo:She's so capable. I do think there's an interesting conversation to be had too, Joe, about this is one of the areas where the pit maybe oversteps relative to the medical reality, where we've had a lot of emailers tell us that student doctors are just never burdened with this much responsibility. They're never making this many active decisions in care as we see on the pit. And so when the characters are doing things that real life student doctors do not, should they be held accountable in a different way? Or is it just like, should we treat them as we do real life student doctors, where as you say, it's really a supervisor issue.

22:03Jo:I don't say it's not just Whitaker, but Robbie would be held accountable too. And Dr. Alashimi as kind of an acting attending.

22:09Rob:First of all, we have to give Joy her flowers for her hero maneuver inside of this episode. Get in the chair.

22:14Jo:Get in the chair.

22:15Rob:Love Joy.

22:16Jo:Sorry, get in the fucking chair. Get in the fucking chair.

22:19Rob:In the like swampy ass chairs scenario when like everyone, they looked like plague victims. Like they had leprosy and like reaching out to touch Samira. Okay. Also want to shout out the princess and Dana like eye rolls. The like, oh, brother that Princess gives to Joy when Samira snaps at her. Not a great look for Samira because Princess is also a fave of ours, right? So she snaps at Princess. But then Dana giving like a similar one when Robbie explodes and she's like, she's going to cry. It's like, what's going on here? I mean, I thought that this performance was really good from Supriya. And like, I thought that before she goes down, I thought it was interesting.

22:59Rob:not from like a Dr. Abbott, Samira, like shipping perspective, but just sort of like that she was looking for Dr. Abbott to write a letter of rec and not Robbie before this happened. So like we saw the way that Robbie treated her last season, but we were sort of thinking at the beginning of the season, like maybe he had just sort of started to respect her more. And, you know, but like this, this reinforces some of that sticky season one stuff that we didn't really like for sure.

23:23Jo:Yeah. It's hard to, hard to falter given the way this episode goes and the way he responds to her. And it's not just us feeling this way. And it's not just Mohan feeling this way. It's everyone else in the room, including Dr. Alashimi, who really brings it to Robbie in a sense of, and we talked about this earlier in the season of like, what does Dr.

23:40Rob:Alashimi need to do to win over viewers? Yeah.

23:43Jo:And she did two things in this episode. One, she cowboyed up. Slashed Drake, baby. Slashed a child's Drake to potentially save his life and defend characters that we care about and really stand up for them. I think the way she stands up for Mohan in this episode such an important affirmation of, one, this is not cool or okay, and not everyone is just going to turn a blind eye on what Robbie is doing, but also bringing us as viewers into the same space as so many of the characters. It's turned into the kind of workplace environment where Robbie is in a corner doing his stuff and everyone else, including us, is being like, what is this guy's deal?

24:17Jo:Why are you behaving this way?

24:19Rob:I thought it was really interesting because at the beginning of the season, you and I both were like, Dr. Hashimi is presenting as someone who is like very dry by the book, you know, Dr. AI, all this sort of stuff like that. Where is her empathy? And here she is lecturing Robbie on his lack of empathy. And Robbie has a real dickish response to, you know, she comes in kind of hot, but like he deserves that heat. And then he's like -

24:42Jo:He came in way too hot.

24:43Rob:Yeah, exactly. I thought that was a really interesting dynamic.

24:46Jo:I also think setting up Samira before she has the episode, as you say, not only is she like talking about getting Abbott for her recommendation, but we see the inverse of what we've seen from her in previous episodes where previously she had time for an older patient who was expressing anxiety to sit with them and talk to them about their, you know, the lawn bowling they're doing and kind of like walk through to the point that Alashimi was kind of recommending her for that track in the first place based on her treatment of those patients. And right before her panic attack, she's like hand-waving away patients left and right who are just like having very reasonable concerns about not being seen in a timely manner because nobody is.

25:23Rob:She's like, I'm not your doctor.

25:25Jo:And they're not grabbing her aggressively in the way we've seen patients do in previous seasons with other doctors. They're just wondering, when am I going to get in a room? Are you my mom's doctor?

25:34Rob:She's like, go back to your room. This woman's like, I'm not in a room. I'm in the hallway.

25:37Jo:Not my problem.

25:38Rob:Is the real villain of this episode her mother who calls not just the AD repeatedly, but on the emergency red line?

25:47Jo:We're at once, twice, three times a trend with her mom where something serious has to be happening with her mom at this point. I think it is well-intentioned, overbearing mom crying wolf all throughout the season so far. And then now like her mom actually had a heart attack or something. Or something happened with her boyfriend, husband. I can't remember what their relationship is. This one feels, based on the recurrence of how many times her mom is calling and the way it's being raised. And I think most importantly, the easy way with which Samira is dismissing it, I feel like she's about to get hoisted by her own petard on that one, unfortunately.

26:20Rob:Give Samira a break. It's a tough day. Not you, the show. Okay. As angry as I was at Dr. Robbie in this episode, this is a real shine the halo for Frank Langdon episode. Truly. Could not have been better set up as he was in this episode. First of all, imagine being Frank Langdon and you get passed over for Ogilvy.

26:37Jo:It's the toughest possible look.

26:38Rob:For a tete-a-tete on the rooftop under the helicopter. Like we understand why Robbie did not want to repeat that helicopter roof scene with Langdon, but picking Ogilvy over him.

26:48Jo:I would say picking Ogilvy is like only one step above like, hey, English teacher with the kidney stone. Why don't you go up to the roof and usurp Dr. Langdon in this responsibility?

26:59Rob:He helps Samira, does not give Samira a shit, is very like loving to Samira. And then, of course, the Becca stuff, like smashing up the pillows into the OJ. He's doing it. Asking Mel how her deposition was. It must have been really stressful for you. How are you doing? Offer you to pay for Louis' funeral. And Dana's like, hey, man, it's okay. Calm down. and you don't have to do that. And then -

27:20Jo:On that front too, on the Louis stuff specifically, I think that's one area where the boundaries conversation that you raised earlier about how often that's coming up feels so different, right? Because Javadi and Roxy are not two people who have a longstanding relationship. That's just Javadi in the same way that like McKay sees a mirror of herself in Roxy. Javadi sees a mirror of herself or at least an inverted one with her kids and like her own relationship with her mom. She's getting into all that. Langdon does, if we're all being honest, owe a lot to Louis. Like he exploited him as a patient, even within this season while trying to go through his own process, co-opted Louis' like treatment time to get stuff off of his chest.

27:58Rob:You're still mad about it.

27:59Jo:I'm not thrilled about it.

28:01Rob:Speed running the steps.

28:02Jo:I just don't think he went about it exactly the right way. But like, it makes sense to me that that is not a normal doctor-patient relationship, right? Like they have a longstanding bond, but in addition to that, Langdon has a very particular recent history with Louis that I get why he would want to go a different extra mile than he might for anybody else. And to me, that makes it a distinct case and one that I think does, like, I think Langdon does deserve a lot of credit for his wanting treatment of Louis and putting him to rest properly in this episode, but also everything he does with Santos.

28:32Rob:Well, here's my question about that. Like, so the Santos stuff.

28:35Jo:Yeah.

28:35Rob:What is your assessment of how he was treating her? Like, was he too much on her ass or was he genuinely trying to treat her as he would treat any other R2? I found I could not find that line. Like, to Dr. El-Hashimi, and certainly Dr. Garcia.

28:49Jo:Oh, yeah.

28:50Rob:It seemed like fine and normal.

28:52Jo:Don't you hate when your work situation sides with your work nemesis?

28:56Rob:It's horrible. Garcia, really on my shit list. But like, what I like about it is that I can't really take a side in that scenario because I really empathize with Trinity. I don't think there's anything Langdon could have done in terms of give her a note or give her feedback or instruct her in some way that she would have taken well. You know what I mean? Well, I think the only thing

29:19Jo:he could have done is the same thing he could have done with almost everybody he works with, which is find a way to contact them, like write them a letter, call them.

29:27Rob:Before he comes back.

29:28Jo:Do not string it to them on your first day back in an emergency room. But that's also the show that we've got is 15 hours in an emergency room.

29:35Rob:I just don't, I'm like trying to figure out how I'm supposed to interpret the way that he was giving her notes. Because he was giving her a lot of notes. A lot. But so I was trying to use like Garcia and Al-Hashimi as gauges of like, did this seem like too many notes or not? But I just don't think there was any way he was going to like do that the right way for Santos. And I am empathetic to Santos in her feelings of that because when she comes to talk to Garcia about it, you know, and she's like, I've been a pariah for the last 10 months. And Garcia, again, physician heal thyself to Robbie and to Garcia for Garcia to be like, well, maybe because you don't play well with others.

30:11Rob:I was like from the number one with love and respect bitch. It's true. And I love a bitch, but like the number one in the -

30:17Jo:She's not wrong.

30:19Rob:She's maybe not entirely wrong. But it's possible also that Santos has been given some kind of cool shoulder, like a feedback loop, you know what I mean?

30:26Jo:I think all of this stuff can be true, right? Like she, I'm sure her coworkers feel a certain way, some of them. Like Mel would feel a certain way about maybe Mel would have wanted to give Langdon a different kind of grace given the circumstances in their relationship. but then Santos does dig her own grave with a lot of people based on how she treats them.

30:44Rob:But I also don't know how much everyone knows about what happened with Langdon.

30:47Jo:I think at this point people know. They know everything? Maybe not everything but there's at least enough whispering.

30:51Rob:Okay.

30:52Jo:Enough whispering and his sudden re-emergence without much professional repercussion like right into his old role granted with some retribution from Robbie as far as like what he's assigned to do. Yeah. But you don't just walk back into a job like that off of an extended leave without people having like some sense of maybe sort of what you went through. I guess.

31:10Rob:I mean, I think they all know about rehab.

31:12Jo:Yes.

31:12Rob:And certainly, like, Whitaker seems to know about the drug taking when he steps in on Louis' behalf and stuff like that. Interesting. I don't know.

31:20Jo:But he's also living with Santos, so he would know.

31:22Rob:He would know, yeah, of the many snide remarks that she throws back at him. One of them is about a pigtail catheter. And the only thing I could think of that as a reference to is that's the procedure that Mohan and Abbott did at the end of season one that was, like, Abbott joked was, like, too risky for him to do. So he had Samira do it. So I don't know exactly what significance that has for Santos and Langdon in that particular moment. But that was tough to watch. It was tough to watch because I really, I kind of am on everyone's side.

31:51Jo:It's true.

31:52Rob:You know? Anything else you want to say about that?

31:53Jo:Well, I've, I mean, I've really bonded with Santos over these two seasons. And so this felt like maybe a kind of like a petulant moment for her. Yeah. Where she has been so right in the past, including about some of what Langdon was doing wrong. Absolutely. That here you can see her kind of wanting to be right, even if maybe she is, maybe she isn't. And I would love that from our listeners, too. If you are someone in a medical professional and you can parse the subtext of the treatments that they're discussing as far as like what is.

32:21Rob:Was he being nitpicky? Yes. Was he being too hard on her? Yeah, I don't have enough medical knowledge to know. Not a doctor.

32:27Jo:My read just based on performance and just based on what we're seeing in that scene is she is taking out their personal stuff on the treatment of this patient. Yeah. by not, you know, listening to a superior doctor in this like teaching capacity. The one moment that got me was like the, and again, it's like Langdon, I feel like you're doing a lot right in this episode. I think he handles Santos' like million eye rolls a minute and barbs and counter treatments with a lot of grace and gives her a lot of patience here. And then the final, like, I am happy to teach Dr. Santos. It's like that one got me a little bit, but up until that point, I have to say, I think he handled that about as well as you could.

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34:35Jo:In the first place.

34:36Rob:All right, I'm going to bring you back to a section of my notes that I'm calling Ogilvy Rising. I regret to inform you, I'm now forced to be slightly team Ogilvy. You're pro. And here's why.

34:45Jo:Yeah.

34:45Rob:It's not that it's James Baldwin that he's reading. Like, welcome to the chat, Wogilvy. You know what I mean?

34:50Jo:Does Ogilvy, the character, read James Baldwin?

34:53Rob:Notes of a native son. Well, it adds dimensionality to him. But here's where the like, lover of physical media by physical media, I mean books, like bookseller. Inside of me. Original physical media. It's a used.

35:08Jo:Very well worn.

35:08Rob:Pocket book. Yeah. Like, I don't think this is like a treasured tome of his. I think he bought it like used from a bookstore somewhere. And that's just cool shit in my book. Because he's not reading it on Kindle. And he didn't buy like a shiny new copy. He went and bought like a used pocket book. And I'm just like, they're not even making pocket books anymore. Because people like the small format of paperbacks. Because people aren't reading them. So I just got like really excited when I saw it.

35:35Jo:Dude reads one book, doesn't even read it, buys one book. And you're like, sign me up.

35:40Rob:People aren't buying books anymore, Rob. He didn't buy it from Amazon. He bought it from a brick and mortar, probably.

35:45Jo:Next episode, Ogilvy is going to be in the break room with a cardigan and a matcha and reading his book. And you're just going to be cooked.

35:50Rob:Okay, so Ogilvy, let's talk about it. James Baldwin's Notes of the Day of Sun. Oh, great book. A nonfiction book. How exciting for you, Rob. Truly. You love nonfiction. I do love nonfiction. It's really possible that this was just a book that was in the lending library that exists on the set of The Pit. That's also possible. And it wasn't like Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. It was Notes of a Native Son. But like classic living out with a pit moment to have Notes of a Native Son here, which is like James Bolton's series of essays where he writes about like blackness in America versus blackness in like in Paris and critiquing a lot of other black media.

36:28Rob:Anyway, it is like, it is the most living out with the pit, like title he could have put here. Here's my question for you. Is there a single title that he could have produced, Warren Pocketbook or no? Yes. That you would have been like, oh, I'm T-Mogulby now. Like, is there like a basketball book that you would have been like, this guy knows his shit?

36:46Jo:He doesn't know ball. I can just tell by looking at him.

36:49Rob:All right, all right, all right.

36:49Jo:See, in terms of what felt realistic, I mean, maybe this is just plenty of type, but like something dense in sci-fi, I think would have tracked more than this in terms of character.

37:00Rob:You wouldn't have been excited about fiction, though. I'm talking about you, Rob. But that's what I'm saying.

37:03Jo:I'm saying that's what I would have expected. Yeah. What would he have produced that would actually have been interesting? Honestly, the thing that to me would have been funniest is like a very earmarked copy of Infinite Jest. That would be the funniest possible outcome.

37:15Rob:You can't carry that out of your pocket, man.

37:18Jo:Look, it's a heavy tote, but you can do it.

37:21Rob:There's a, did you ever read Michael Crichton's book, Travels, I think it's called? No. uh so it's uh it's non-fiction essays and some of it has to do with him traveling but a lot of it has to do with his experience as a med student yeah so that's something that i would like expect an ogilvy to be reading is michael critton's travels dr sidebanks at gmail.com if there is like one book that someone could produce and you're like this person's all right actually i

37:43Jo:was wrong about them i misjudged them this struck me as the very are you how familiar are you with

37:48Rob:lebron james carrying around books zero tell me uh became a recurring meme in the mba lebron

37:54Jo:would show up into the locker room with a book. He's always reading like the first page of the book. So it's like, it's very clear, like he's talking about it. He'll sing the praises. He'll talk about like this Malcolm X biography is like very, very, very, very, very important. Like conspicuously too many varies. And then, you know, the next time it's a new book, but did he read the book? Did he buy a new book? It's always on page one. I'm just saying this feels to me, I mean, I'm - Performative. A little performative, but also I'm forced to reconcile with the other part of it, which is if we are interpreting Ogilvy as this kind of like career gunner, maybe he is the kind of person who thought like, this day is going to be easy and I'm going to have so much downtime that I'm going to be able to get in like a breezy James Baldwin read.

38:34Rob:Yeah. I'll knock out an essay or two. No problem. Okay. That being said, the book aside, he is bonding with this patient.

38:41Jo:Yes.

38:42Rob:This is the most bedside manner that we've seen from Ogilvy with this patient who reminds him of his dad. Yeah. The daddy issues are also here. You want to analyze that?

38:50Jo:There's a lot happening. I will say the most predictable outcome of this entire season was that dude doing the good versus well correction. Like, you couldn't even place a bet that that was going to happen. It was off the board.

39:01Rob:Did I start to say it before he started to say it? Who's to say? I don't know.

39:05Jo:Do you do that in real life to people?

39:06Rob:No, I just hear it in my head. You do.

39:08Jo:It's internal.

39:09Rob:If you say it, I will in my head. It depends if I know you.

39:12Jo:Yeah.

39:12Rob:If I know you really well, I might say.

39:14Jo:I'm going to start baiting this podcast. I'm going to start throwing out goods. Just see how long until you break.

39:19Rob:Park the shark. Maybe my new favorite character. Great, honestly. This absolute vampire, hulking vampire of a human who just like circles the body, holds up the limb, scares the bejesus out of everyone. Robbie's a little amused. Whitaker looks like he's going to piss himself. I loved this.

39:36Jo:This is a huge episode for Whitaker almost peeing himself in basically every scene he's involved in. But yeah, great new introduction for Park the Shark. Where's this guy been? I don't know, but I need more of him. Actually, I know where he's been. This is not the first time he's held a disembodied leg, that man is definitely a serial killer.

39:52Rob:I agree. That's a spin-off I want.

39:55Jo:I would be down for it. Like a Dexter style,

39:58Rob:like he kills bad people.

40:00Jo:That's the real pit night shift.

40:01Rob:In a medical way.

40:03Jo:I don't know what in a medical way means.

40:05Rob:In a precise surgical way. I think there was something... As opposed to Dexter's slapdash. Well, he's a forensics guy. He's a forensics guy.

40:12Jo:There were a couple moments in this episode that just reinforced for me, I am not about this life. Okay. One of them was...

40:18Rob:It was the two little pumpers.

40:19Jo:Well, the two little pumpers was not ideal. But the ease with which Dr. Elashimi's scalpel cut through this kid's trachea. Yeah. Again, it's just like unsettles me on a visceral level. The other one was Park the Shark manipulating the foot of the disembodied leg. I loved it. And it's a great moment. It's like he's so matter-of-fact about all of it, as you would be if you were a surgeon who's done plenty of these replantations. Was that the official term? it's just another day at the office for him but it is horrifying for me to watch

40:49Rob:I loved how I don't know who that actor is I don't think I've seen him in anything but I just like perfect casting truly physical embodiment of sharkitude just like really great what do you think

40:59Jo:the listing was for that part

41:01Rob:scary vampiric in nature like you can put that guy in a cloak and he's a vampire no doubt and not just a vampire

41:10Jo:he's like running the den you know like he's a leader of vampires definitely Definitely.

41:14Rob:On the Slash Drake front, okay, this is like a huge moment where Robbie does a little like, show me what you got.

41:20Jo:Yeah.

41:21Rob:Right? And she does it. He's never done it. Nope. She's never done it. Garcia comes in and is a bitch about it. Yes. Again, I do love bitches, but is a bitch about it. And then she's, you know, Dr. Hashimi stands her ground. She's like, maybe. People will thank me for saving this kid's life. What did you think of that whole scenario?

41:40Jo:the look that Robbie gives her afterwards. I mean, I think that was his hottest moment in the pit. I think that was not of him, but he was in love.

41:48Rob:And then she came up and put her hand on his back a little later and he had like a little reaction to it. And then she was like, hey, you're an unempathetic asshole.

41:55Jo:And then he lost the plot a little bit.

41:59Rob:I thought that was really good. I do want to come back to this in like diagnosis spoiler corner. But in terms of like, if we were wondering about her fine motor skills, this is a lot of precision. So on the neurological front, this is like her motor skills are intact, it seems to me.

42:14Jo:I also think too, like a huge win for her process and her approach where yes, she is doing, like she's earning her stripes in the pit, her yellow and black stripes here. An important moment. But she's also doing it not because she has done this surgery before, but because she did it in a simulated environment like the one that she is teaching the students with to open the season. So it's like she is winning on her terms.

42:34Rob:Her sim lab terms.

42:35Jo:We love it.

42:36Rob:Do we?

42:36Jo:I kind of do.

42:37Rob:I love to win for her.

42:38Jo:Yeah, I love to win for her. And I love that it was not just like, I'm going to do exactly what Robbie does and therefore the viewers will love me. It's like she is becoming a distinct, fully formed character all her own.

42:48Rob:I'm going to do something Robbie's never even done.

42:49Jo:Yep.

42:49Rob:Roxy. We're still here with Roxy. She's talking to her youngest son about being kind. Does a little like Taylor Swift, Invisible String moment. But what broke me, like really broke me, was Cassie McKay going out to talk to her older son and talk about the regrets of not saying goodbye to his mom. And then there's also a long look that Cassie gives her as they're like upping the meds once again. Just like empathy pouring out from every angle from Cassie. And then, of course, we already talked about it, but like Victoria's reaction to all of it. But how is the Roxy storyline working for you in this episode?

43:35Jo:I mean, it continues to. Yeah. And correct me, we don't see Shane, her older son, actually go back in the room at any point, right? So like maybe that's coming up next week. Maybe he never does it. Maybe he does always regret it. But this is why you have McKay in the room the whole time. And so much of her role has been explaining like, these are our options in terms of additional morphine or ketamine or this is what your home life will look like. Or just kind of patiently waiting there in the room as the family sorts stuff out.

44:04Rob:Right.

44:04Jo:And this is the payoff is you get her talking to a boy who's just like a little older than her son. Yeah. Trying to tell him about what's going to be one of the worst days of his whole life and how it could be like slightly less bad if he just goes in the room. And just every part about that performance and that delivery and the writing there I think is really powerful. Like, again, you don't have to, like she's not going to make him go back. No one can make him go in the room. But it's going to hang over him for the rest of his life if he does it. And it's so clear to her and it's so clear to us.

44:33Jo:And it's like, I don't know if I can handle it if he goes back in the room. Like, that's going to be such an emotional scene. But you hope for that character. He certainly does.

44:42Rob:Cassie's whole thing this episode, like talking to Javadi with empathy about her relationship with her mom, having boundaries. But the fact that having boundaries doesn't mean you can't have a very personal conversation with this patient's son, you know, outside the room. Like, you can have that conversation. But is there a way to let that emotional connection not overwhelm you? And then also the very empathetic look she gives to Javadi when Shamsi comes down and chews her out. You know what I mean? Robbie and Dana are a little like, awkward, you know? And whereas McKay's like, I saw that. That was horrible.

45:19Jo:And poor Javadi who's like looking one way at Robbie and Dana, looking the other way at McKay who's like, yes, treating her with a lot of empathy. But also I don't want to participate in this conversation. and just has to like turn around and run off on her own. Do you think McKay will ultimately be right about Dr. Shamsi? Like, do you think we will get a Javadi-Shamsi conversation at some point that like is a bridge between them and not just her mom being the way she has been so far?

45:45Rob:Well, as we consider who is still going to be here next season, because we don't know like when in the year it takes place or whatever, but Victoria has the opportunity to sort of like be there the longest, right? Because she's still a med student. so she could be like, you know, a year one doctor next year and stuff like that. So like, I feel like that's a long game storyline for her to be still in the same hospital with her parents. For sure. I don't feel like it's something that's going to be resolved or dug into in the next five episodes, but it's something that's going to sort of slow roll over the seasons would be my guess.

46:18Jo:And I think could make for a natural exit point for that character if that ever came to be of like, maybe it is just too much to be in the same hospital as literally both of your parents. It's not just your overbearing mom, but then even your dad who means well and is trying to like mend fences. But it's a lot for anybody. And I think the numbers game, and the show can always fudge the numbers of like, there are only so many spots here. Ogilvy kind of wants one of them. But in this episode, I think shows some maybe hesitation of whether he wants to be in the ED for the rest of his professional life.

46:47Rob:A slower paced ED, you know?

46:48Jo:I mean, this is a lot to throw at anybody.

46:50Rob:He's like, I have a lot of reading to get through.

46:52Jo:And so like, which one of these medical students ultimately decides that they are ready for this?

46:57Rob:I think there's no world in which the pit decides to keep Ogilvy on the show and ditch Javadi.

47:03Jo:It would be tough. I think it'd be tough in a bunch of different ways, including that we just have such an attachment to Victoria at this point. But that's a person as a character who needs to come to terms with what it means to work here, both with the proximity to her mom, but also the realities emotionally and in responsibility of what it means to be on that floor.

47:21Rob:Do you think it's almost Javadi's birthday conversation that, you know, Princess and Perla, etc. We're having her this season was there to remind us how old she is.

47:32Jo:Probably.

47:32Rob:Of her youth. You know what I mean? Because like that's not a celebration we're going to see. Yeah. Because it's not happening today. So it's not happening this season. So like is there any other reason to bring it up other than just be like, hey, remember that this woman is quite young.

47:44Jo:I think it's a set up off-season webisodes. You know, we're just going to get the full Dr. J party.

47:49Rob:Yeah.

47:49Jo:And then, yeah, some social exclusive native content of her giving her own TV prescriptions, unfortunately for us.

47:55Rob:Speaking of vampires in the ED, Jeff Kober has entered the building. Duke himself is here. As I mentioned earlier this season, if folks weren't here for that, I told Rob I was really excited when I found out Jeff Kober was playing Duke. This is a guy who played not one but two roles on Buffy Vampire Slayer, as well as being on China Beach and General Hospital and et cetera, et cetera. So was this everything you hoped for from Jeff Kober? How did you feel about it?

48:22Jo:It was a delightful appearance. I'm already loving the banter with Robby. you know the scope came back clean on his throat that's great that lungs got me real worried

48:31Rob:he's a goner there's no way he's gonna be okay this felt like real Louis territory where it's just sort of like this guy's here so like what will you know if he gets like a terminal diagnosis or something like that like what will that do to Robbie I thought it was interesting we got some pushback from listeners on my commentary last week about how it felt like there always needed to be a story that was excusing white people here. And some people wrote in with some examples and thank you so much for that. I think, you know, Duke coming in and being like, yeah, I'm a lifelong smoker. I love alcohol.

49:02Rob:Yep. Here's me. At the same time, he's Robbie's VIP. So everyone's going to treat him like a prince anyway. So he doesn't need like a backstory to like, you know, for people to sort of, you know, Donnie and Whitaker and everyone to just sort of like get him to breeze past everyone in chairs. He was like, what the fuck is going on here? I thought this, the, the view down the, like lyrics? Is that what it was? Anyway, the scope view on the monitor was extremely cool, I thought. It is very cool. Was it upsetting to you?

49:32Jo:I just don't like any internal scoping happening in general in terms of watching it. Okay. I don't know. I like the movie trick

49:39Rob:where he was like putting it in and the camera like moves away to the monitor and then he comes back and he's sort of like sleight of hand magician like pulling it out. I thought that was all really cool.

49:47Jo:I do appreciate that part of it. Like, again, this is an area of practical like medical application where the pit is, It's so easy and so seamless that in any other show, you might feel a hiccup and you just don't.

49:58Rob:Before we get into our spoiler diagnosis territory, which I want to get to in a second, I do want to shout out, you mentioned the moms in this episode.

50:06Jo:A lot of moms.

50:06Rob:Any mom stuff in particular you want to make sure that we...

50:10Jo:I think we've hit the most of it. I mean, we got Victoria's mom. We got Samira's mom. I feel like there was, and obviously the Roxy McKay stuff is kind of baked in there as well. Are there any other stray moms in here?

50:19Rob:of our listeners who message us, and there were many, to say how excited they were for us that there was a furry on the pit. It's true. The number one message I saw across all social media, all comments, all emails was, I had to pause and tell my husband. So shout out to the wives, who I think are a huge Prestige TV pit. Like we got a few, like I had to tell my girlfriend, I had to tell my wife, but mostly we got, I had to pause and tell my husband why I was so excited there was a furry on the screen.

50:47Jo:Why I screamed on my couch.

50:49Rob:So thanks, wives. We appreciate you.

50:50Jo:Truly. Thanks for anyone who was unreasonably excited as we were. Yeah, yeah. Seeing the furry.

50:55Rob:All right. Anything else you want to talk about before we get to this slight spoiler territory?

50:59Jo:I do want to talk briefly about Becca and Mel and Langdon. And also, I want to loop in Mel's lawyer on this. First of all, this is something you don't want to hear from your lawyer. It didn't go as badly as you think. Tough. Really tough. Don't ever say that to me.

51:16Rob:Really tough.

51:16Jo:Also, maybe lead with, and I mean not even in this episode, but like, this should have been conveyed to Mel weeks ago. You are not financially liable for anything that's about to happen here, and this will not ruin your career. Why wasn't this communicated? This whole plot line is a little mystifying.

51:33Rob:Honestly, trash. Sorry.

51:34Jo:It's not good.

51:35Rob:I love the pit. I love Dr. Mel King, this whole. And what it seems to, seems like its entire existence is here, not just because this is a thing that doctors go through.

51:43Jo:Of course.

51:43Rob:Probably not usually on the 4th of July, but this is a thing that doctors go through. but also to put Mel in a state of agitation for when she learns this information from Becca, that Becca has a sex life, right? And something that we talked about -

51:55Jo:Becca has a sex life.

51:56Rob:Oh, they're getting at it.

51:58Jo:Oh, busy.

51:59Rob:But like, we talked about this quote that Taylor Dearden, who plays Mel King, gave to Us Weekly earlier this season, where she said, quote, I think Mel is asexual. I don't think that's part of how Mel would think, especially at work. She's a hyper-professional, end quote. that was in response to like does Mel King like want to get busy with Frank Langdon and she's like not really nor Boba guy for that matter but that means that when she's confronted with her sister's sex life she's like oh shit this this this person that I have centered a lot of my life around A has like kept this information for me like I don't know that she has a boyfriend let alone that they're like having a lot of sex and also I can't really relate to her on this front if I'm like if she's playing this character as asexual.

52:48Rob:And I just thought and it sort of drafts off of what we were talking last week with these moments of Becca being like, I'm not her your sister. I'm Becca. You know what I mean? This like Mel's care for her sister. We've seen, you know, we've been viewing as like this very like lovely thing that she's so supportive of a sister who needs some extra care. but perhaps from Becca's point of view it's smothering I don't know what do you think?

53:16Jo:I think there are probably areas where it is and there's probably areas where it's welcome and there's also a lot of areas where Becca's probably oblivious to the level of like work around and extra miling that Mel has to do to take care of her sister and like all of that is in the sauce there all of it is in the broth I think the ramen broth? I hope it's a really well developed ramen broth at this point

53:34Rob:do you still eat cup of noodles? is that a thing that you eat? or like a top ramen?

53:40Jo:not straight cup of noodles. Oh, you would enhance it. Like shin ramen, sure. You make a jammy egg. Yeah. I would love a jammy egg. Like green onions are widely available, easily accessible for everybody. You can judge.

53:50Rob:Yeah.

53:51Jo:Very simply.

53:51Rob:Okay.

53:53Jo:I wonder if Becca is into ramen, honestly. I could see it going both ways.

53:57Rob:Well, she likes pasta a lot.

53:58Jo:I mean, clearly.

53:59Rob:Yeah.

53:59Jo:But. That wasn't even.

54:03Rob:That was an end of last season where she's like, can we have pasta?

54:05Jo:I don't remember any pasta reference.

54:08Rob:They're like walking the street. She's like, can we watch this movie for a millionth time. Can we watch Elf, I believe?

54:12Jo:Yeah, yeah. And eat pasta. Can we eat pasta? I believe it if you say it. I don't remember her association with pasta.

54:18Rob:Yes, she is. Not every slurped noodle. Sometimes a slurped noodle is just a slurp noodle. Sometimes it is.

54:25Jo:But again, we're getting way too close with the slurping and proximity to everything that's happening. I like that in addition to all of that disclosure that we're talking about between Mel and Becca, as far as like, what do they talk about? Langdon makes it like very clear in addition to bringing in copious juice options. Like, I can't talk about this with Mel. That's your decision. You have to get into it.

54:45Rob:My guy loves HIPAA.

54:47Jo:He does. He does love HIPAA. He's a real rule follower now. Yeah. You know? The part of it that I appreciate is also the murkiness around being a caretaker for someone who has an active sex life, right? It's like there's so many ways in which Becca is dependent on Mel. And it's like, you're knowing this about your sister. You're knowing this about someone who you look after. How does Mel square all those things in her head. And I think we get a pretty good glimpse of like the gymnastics she is trying to do comprehending everything that her sister is telling her.

55:16Rob:I'm really curious how this is going to play out.

55:17Jo:Yeah.

55:17Rob:All right. Last but not least, this is the diagnosis spoiler corner. If you don't want to know anything that we know from medical professionals about what is potentially going on in the pit, now's the time to leave. And we'll see you soon. Bye. Dr. Hoshimi. If she is indeed having absence seizures, what if she had had one while she was actively slashing a trach.

55:40Jo:I mean, you think that kid dies, no?

55:42Rob:Yeah. So it is, as much as I want to like root for this character, it is so horribly irresponsible for her to be practicing this kind of medicine at this point. This sort of ED, you never know when you're gonna have to slash a trach kind of medicine is something that someone in her condition, and I never like to tell people what they can't do, but is something in someone with her condition like that we've seen that she's being triggered over and over again into these sort of stare off into space absence seizures. That was like scary for me. And I don't like it's so late in the season that no one seems to have like really noticed or commented on like, where is this going?

56:25Rob:I'm just like so curious. Is this something where it's just Robbie's like, well, I can't, you know, is he going to figure out like what, what, where, to what end, you know?

56:34Jo:And is that a season two concern or is that something where she is continuing on the show going forward. And eventually, as these characters get to know her a little better, like, isn't it weird that every three hours she stares off into space, into middle distance, and then we have to kind of snap her back to reality? Like, it would be hard to notice on your first day. You're right that it's terrifying. You're right that it's clearly irresponsible. I'm not even sure if there's a form of practicing medicine. I'm sure there are forms in which it would be less irresponsible than this. Anything where you're not performing active surgery.

57:04Jo:You know what I mean?

57:04Rob:Like, sort of, you're diagnosing, you're doing this, you're doing that. but like you know if it's hands on I need like

57:10Jo:to the second level care motor skills

57:12Rob:sort of like whatever I don't think she can do that anymore

57:15Jo:but that feels like part of the arc this season right if they're constructing you're resistant to this character because she's kind of like the antithesis of a lot of what's going on in the pit they slowly have like win her over with us or win us over with her and then eventually drop the bomb that like actually she's doing this like gross grossly negligent thing for the sake of like I think what I'm eager about

57:38Rob:well what I'm worried about is that does that just end with like Robbie was right all along and this is these are very poor hands to leave leave his department in is that the story I really want to be watching I don't know

57:50Jo:I don't know that I do want to be watching that story but we're all headcanon at this point like we are heavily theorizing not only on the diagnosis but how it's going to be treated if it does go that direction I want to hear her explanation of it of like why she thinks and tries to justify that she should continue to practice in this way. Because I don't know how you would possibly talk yourself into it.

58:11Rob:Yeah. I mean, if there's empathy for her inside of the situation, like if this actress who I haven't seen in a ton of things, but people really admire this actress, like if she gets something really juicy where she gets to play, like I have to give up this thing that I love to do because of this medical affliction that I have. Anyway, just something to think about while we're slashing tricks here. in the ED.

58:36Jo:That's also a situation though where as far as that specific procedure, no one else in the room knew what to do, right? Like they exhausted their traditional treatment options. The child, it sounded like the child's body is like too small almost to do some particularly invasive methods. And so it was kind of like who has any ideas at this point? Not to excuse Dr. Elshimi putting potentially all these patients in a vulnerable spot, but she does help them out in a pinch for sure.

59:01Rob:I think she's been trying to not be the one wielding the scalpel all day. And then this was a moment where she felt pressed for it. But like, I don't know.

59:10Jo:Do you think there is a rationale for someone like Dr. Elashimi where by working in a teaching hospital, she can direct the action more so than be involved in the action? Well, is this, yeah, I don't know.

59:24Rob:Okay, let's tune in to find out as we go forward with the pit. Anything else you want to say before we go?

59:30Jo:I have a couple of things. One, Robbie asked Dana to call in more doctors. Paging, Dr. Shen, please to the courtesy phone. Dr. Ellis. I know she just got down for a nap, but like.

59:40Rob:Dr. Abbott, come back. I mean, are we going to get more Abbott?

59:43Jo:I feel like that might be it this season. That would be tough. I also have one very small note, and it's for the woman who's been deputized to like be a runner for the medications and stuff, who last week told us that she runs marathons. Yeah. If you are a person who runs marathons, you cannot be constantly saying.

1:00:00Rob:Hydrate.

1:00:01Jo:This is not a sprint. It's a marathon. You can't do it. Like, I respect her commitment to fitness.

1:00:08Rob:How would you say it in either basketball or tennis terms?

1:00:09Jo:You just got to invent a new metaphor. You got to call it a long game. You got to do something. You know, like we're playing four quarters here. You know, like there's a lot you can do.

1:00:18Rob:Right. This is a tournament, not a scrimmage or something.

1:00:21Jo:You just cannot be this person.

1:00:23Rob:Got it. All right. Thank you to you, Rob Mahoney. Thank you, Joe. Thank you to Kai Grady. Thank you to Justin Sales. Thank you to CT. Thank you to everyone here at the Sycamore Studios. Takes a village. It really does. And we'll be back with definitely more Pit. And Rob promises you some love story coverage.

1:00:38Jo:That's my personal guarantee. I have a lot to get off my chest. And again, like a lot of Jackie O to talk about.

1:00:43Rob:Yeah. All right. We'll see you soon. Bye.

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