‘The Pitt’ Season 2, Episode 12: Amor Fati

20:00But with Dana, she so clearly has taken Emma under her wing, not just professionally, but has been looking after her all day. And as far as a button on a character relationship goes, Emma thanking Dana for kind of looking after her, after following her around and seeing the way she takes care of patients. I mean, I just found it to be a really sweet, really tender moment within this episode that otherwise is quite chaotic.

20:22Rob:And I think also that sort of like you need to report after the whole plot line that they shared over the sexual assault case and like the long patient conversation that they had with that young woman about like reporting, you know, like it's a different kind of assault, but it is of the same piece of just sort of like something has happened to you. Yeah. And let's talk about it. The Gulf douche himself. There's many things he did that I'm upset with him about. but for some reason, like viciously throwing the pamphlets at McKay was just sort of like, Jesus Christ. Anyway, I did, when he was talking, when she's, okay, I did not know this about the combination of alcohol and cocaine and that it can sort of like produce a metabolite that can cause psychosis and all that sort of stuff like that.

21:09Rob:Interesting to know. I also did not know. And actually, I don't think the world knew about the term birdie bump because I did, he was like, we were just doing some birdie bumps. Don't worry about it. I did Google this. like right after just to see before the episode hit if this is something that is like Urban Dictionary is aware of it or like, you know, douchedictionary.com has it or something like that. But I couldn't really find it anywhere. Birdie juice or birdie bottle is a thing. And that is just like a flask you carry that if someone makes a birdie, take a shot from the flask or something like that.

21:41Rob:That's a thing. So like just take that, but make it cocaine. Sure. If you were to come up with like a terminology for taking a bump of a cocaine during a tennis game, Do you have a term that you could, because I do think birdie bump is fairly catchy. I wouldn't recommend doing cocaine during any sport, though. I suppose if it's going to be something, it should be golf because it's a very sedate sort of you're walking around. You're not like getting your heart rate up necessarily while you're golfing. So like maybe some cocaine would be fine, but like I would not like bump and pump. I would not like weightlift and do cocaine at the same time.

22:16Rob:That's not something I would do. Well, first of all, I think this is why I wouldn't do it in golf is like, Because it is such like a, you need to very calmly focus on this very particular biomechanical task. Like that is not conducive to taking cocaine in literally any way. So I can understand why his golf bro was saying it was not a performance enhancing drug in this particular instance. Yeah, tennis would not recommend it. I'm trying to think if there's a cutesy name we could really adopt here. I mean, I'm gonna have to think on it. Maybe this is something our listeners can help us with. Your sport of choice, whatever it may be.

22:47Is there a cocaine terminology? What's the birdie bump? What is the birdie bump of your sport of choice? In general, though, Joe, I'm always a little, maybe this is more revealing of me than anything about the situation. I don't understand people who just mix recreational drug use with casual sports in general. The number of people I have played basketball with over the years who are just like stoned out of their mind. I'm like, guys, I'm trying to have peak reaction time. I don't know what you're doing out here, but we're supposed to be on a team. Come on, like pick it up.

23:18Rob:All right. If you think Rob is exhibiting narc energy, you can email us drsignbags at gmail.com. It's a fair accusation. That's Dr. D-O-C-T-O-R. Anything else you want to say about the Gulf douche before we move on? I think ultimately like he might be supplanting campus security guard guy in the this guy sucks power rankings of the season. Hard to beat putting a nurse in a chokehold. What about ICE agents, Rob? What do you think? I mean, look, they're all... Okay, they're numbers one and two. Number one, the institution of ice. Number two, the agents who then work for ice. Number three, this fucking guy.

23:57And number four, campus security guard. I think that's a fairly comprehensive list for who we've had this season.

24:02Rob:Number five, maggots. I think it's a great list. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. You know, with just one trip to Whole Foods, you can travel the world. First stop, discover the taste of the Mediterranean with big sales on brands like Deseco, or Reos and San Pellegrino. With Whole Foods prepared foods, dinner is solved. You can roam the world with empanadas, burritos, soups, and more. Maybe expand your snack repertoire to South America with colorful and crunchy Peruvian potato chips. Then straight to Mexico for dessert. You can pick up a Tres Leches family pack cake for only$10 every Friday.

24:39All aboard? Save on regional flavors at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Spring is starting, so it's time to wake up your yard. And at the Home Depot, they've got everything you need to do it with low prices guaranteed. Mowing your lawn is a dream with top brand outdoor power tools like the Ryobi 40-volt mower with up to 50 minutes of runtime. You can add a pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants and refresh your garden beds with EarthGrow mulch, five bags for just$10. Start your spring with low prices now through April 1st. Available at the Home Depot.

25:17Exclusions apply. See homedepot.com slash price match for details. This episode is brought to you by Tax Act. Like an expert coach, Tax Act offers step-by-step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way, add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you with expert full service. Tax Act helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details.

25:50Rob:Dana versus Robbie. This is a very like Kathleen Lanasa wants another Emmy sort of performance episode between the like fuck, fuck reaction in the bathroom, the like not being able to hold back her tears in the public hallway. while Robbie looks on but does not say anything to her. And then their blowout in the ambulance bay, a conversation that we're just like, she keeps trying to be like, what conversation? What are we doing? What are you talking about? This idea that she's had a loaded syringe in her pocket all day ready for danger. The fact that we've been talking all season about this potential of PTSD for her and how that might manifest.

26:29Rob:I thought this was really well executed. A pal of mine, Roxanna Hadidi, who works for Vulture, wrote a great piece called We Need to Talk About Robbie, sort of about the characterization of Robbie this season. And this is, you know, this she wrote before, this is in response to episode 11, so not in response to episode 12. But she says, this is one point she made that I thought was interesting. She says, in layering on Robbie's aggression without the checks and balances of other characters' responses to it, the pit is in danger of making his point of view its point of view. The Pit is set up to work as an ensemble show, a strong group of actors, varied characters with distinct experiences, a steady stream of patience, and cases that allow new dynamics to emerge.

27:16Rob:But spending so much time on Robbie this season has kept it from becoming one. More people than just Dana could be standing up to Robbie and showcasing performances beyond the show's two Emmy winners. So, like, you know, she's like, it shouldn't just be Dana calling Robbie out or Abbott in a sort of, like, lighter sense. As we've said it again and again and again, we do not mind if characters on the pit are wrong, like, are incorrect, are if their worldview is fucked up in some way. Sometimes right, sometimes wrong. That's a great balance inside of a human. Something that we have been asking ourselves all season, though, is, like, does the show agree with Robbie in his assessments of, like, Dr.

27:55Rob:Al-Hashimi or Dr. Langdon or whatever the case may be? I do think that Roxanna's right in saying that Dana should not be the only character sort of like pushing back on Robbie, but Dana's push back in this episode in particular is so piercing and so pointed that I do think this interaction, this call out did a lot of work inside of that dynamic that we've been interrogating all season. What do you think? Yeah, I think there's, I mean, there's a lot to unpack here. First of all, we're talking about kind of two different fundamental framings. what is the best way to write a TV show and what is most representative of a workplace.

28:35And in an actual workplace, most of the people working with Robbie probably would not feel like they were in a position to check him. Absolutely. Dana has the history. She has the personal relationship. She also knows kind of exactly what buttons to push that will reach him. I mean, can you imagine if like three episodes ago, Javadi had tried to check Robbie in some way? Like he would brush it off in the way he's been brushing off everyone. And I think the other characters are taking their moments to be like, hey, I know people who walk close to the line just to see if they get burned and we see you doing that in real time.

29:06As gently as possible around the human time bomb, they are trying to warn him about what's happening. Getting Dana in this capacity though, I'm sensitive to that idea of the gravitational pull of the show being so heavily around Robbie and what does that open up for the other performers on the show? When do they get their moments? What are their plot lines? I think most of these other characters in the ensemble get their episodes, get their arcs, but it is such a Robbie show. And so long as that's the case, Dana is going to be one of the voices that makes the most sense to get to him, but it doesn't have to be that way.

29:40You know, you could rebalance to make it more focused on, you know, McKay in season three, if that's what you really wanted. And when we're focused on Abbott or Mohan or whoever, there's lots of ways in which you can actually structure this thing. But I think the show is unusually centered around Robbie, or maybe usually depending on just like your general TV point of view. I don't think the show agrees with everything he has to say though. I think that's where I would push back the most.

30:04Rob:I agree. And I think, I think, I don't think Roxanna was saying that, but I think she's like, there is a danger of a reading of the show that way. Do you know what I mean? And I think it sort of depends on how you watch it. I do, I mean, like, I do think that I have seen both in like the subreddit and our comments and our emails, plenty of people who watch the show and anytime we critique Robbie, they're defensive of him. Sure. And, you know, and so that, you know, that happens all the time. But I do think there are some people watch the show thinking of Robbie as a leader, which he is, and then therefore his takes are the right takes.

30:39Rob:And I don't think that's what the show is presenting, but I think it's interesting. Our listener Aaron, who is a physician, wrote in with this interesting idea about what's called moral injury, which is not a phrase that I had heard before, but looked up. Aaron was talking about how this is increasingly a concern inside of healthcare workers and particularly post-pandemic. A moral injury is often something used to relate to veterans, people who have been through wartime. And this idea of something that you have had to do in the line of your job that betrays, undercuts, something of core moral value that you have held.

31:21Rob:And so for physicians inside of a system where health insurance lets you down, you have to compromise your beliefs. And we've seen the doctors in the pit have to do this over and over again in order to do your job. We heard Robbie say to Santos, like, when Santos was concerned about the brother and sister with the deported parents who might have to be separated, and Robbie was just sort of like, bad things happen inside of systems. So Robbie has had to compromise morally again and again. When ICE shows up, he has to just be like, we got to put our heads down and do what we have to do to get these guys out of here.

31:58Rob:So there are ways in which over time, and so I thought it was really interesting. It's called Lasting Emotional, Psychological, Social Behavior, and Spiritual Impacts of Actions that Violate a Service Member's Core Moral Values and Behavioral Expectations of Self or Others. And looking on the Department of Veteran Affairs website where they were talking about specifically healthcare workers inside of this issue that I thought this was really interesting in terms of the psychological profile of these characters, right? For self-care inside of moral injury can be particularly challenging for people working in healthcare, given that those in this field typically strongly value caring for others and may prioritize the needs of others over their own.

32:40Rob:These characteristics are usually protective, but during highly stressful events, they can mean that a person may not have time to take care of themselves and that their personal standards put them at a higher risk for moral injury. Therefore, self-care for moral injury should include seeking out others to assist in making difficult choices when possible and for support about circumstances that cause moral distress. It is often only in conversations with others that we can hear a different, more helpful way to think about or make meaning from morally distressing situations. And so I was thinking about that as we like, let's bleed into this Dr.

33:12Rob:Al-Hashimi Rabi conversation where she's like, I think there should be two attendings here in ED. Now, is she saying that because of her own questions about her own limitations and whatever is going on with her medically, which is an ongoing question we have this season? Or is she just speaking the truth? Everyone here is falling the fuck apart because it's too much for the staff to handle. And Robbie is so affronted by this idea, right? He gets so high on his horse. He's like, Like, our ED is the best ED in the world. And how dare you suggest that I'm doing the job of two people? And I just, like, really, I love that for him because, like, I don't agree with him at all, of course.

33:54Rob:But, like, that he's like, what do you mean help? What do you mean someone else? It has to be me, only me. And this is what Dana's pushing back against. She's like, this ED survived without Adamson. It survived without me. It'll survive without you. Like your idea, this mentally unwell story you have created, that it all has to be on you, is breaking you, is not functional, is not true. And so him being so threatened by Al-Hashimi even introducing the idea that there should be two attendings at the ED, I thought was incredible storytelling. It's a great setup. Yeah. Yeah, because not only does he have this just like perpetual martyr complex about what he is supposed to mean to this ED, so many times in this episode, he is telling people, if I take my finger out of the dam, this whole place is going to go down.

34:50And at the same time, completely rejecting the idea, as you mentioned, Joe, that he needs any kind of help whatsoever, which, look, there have been two attendings on the floor today, and it's been a shit show. It seems exceedingly reasonable to say that with this volume of patients in one of the most trafficked EDs in the country, having two attendings would be an incredible luxury if there's staffing to afford it.

35:09Rob:Not even like a luxury, like a necessity, honestly. True, yeah. So like, I thought that was really interesting. Also, so inside of that conversation, Alashimi gets this information that she didn't have that Langdon was selling drugs. I thought this phrasing from Robbie was really interesting when he was talking about Santos. He says, Santos is responsible for revealing. Like, I was just like, who's responsible? inside of any of this situation. I just thought that was like a really interesting way for him to put that. He's all over the map. I mean, there is just like Dr. Robbie, accountability watch, death wish watch.

35:46Like he's so emotionally frazzled at this point and yet rejecting the idea that he is anywhere close to any kind of brink. I think the sum total of this, like how he is performing emotionally within these episodes, how this character is kind of being represented in addition to the larger narrative stuff we've just been talking about, about who Robbie is over the course of the season.

36:07Rob:Right. I think Noah Wiley has been even better this season than he was last, in part because Robbie has been, frankly, like so unlikable all throughout. We will come back to Robbie again and again, but let's take a, let's veer over into a heat stroke mom and her kid. There is an interesting like frenzy among the fandom of like trying to figure out whether or not this mother is telling the truth, like, you know, down to like the dirt underneath the fingernails of the kid and what does that mean and all this sort of stuff like that. How much do you think the show is actively engaging and pushing back on that kind of theorizing inside of this episode when we get both Dr.

36:43Rob:Al-Hashimi saying to Langdon, like, let's not theorize, just because the dad went up to check on the kid before he checked on the mom, let's not like jump to any conclusions. And then McKay and Al-Hashimi and Dana having like mom corner at the front desk being like, do you think she's telling the truth? Does it matter? Is me being a mom making me more judgmental and more understanding? I don't know. That's just very much like a pushback on like, did she do it is not the question this show wants to ask or is it? I don't know. What do you think? I think it is the question the show wants us to ask, right?

37:20Like they're not giving you all these breadcrumbs. They're not giving you the shot of the fingernails if they didn't want you to think about it. And some of that is to put yourself in the position of one of these medical professionals, right? About like, if you're in that spot, should you care about it? And those are almost two separate questions. Because narratively, yeah, like the show wants you to engage with those ideas to the point that even as she is being told that her son is recovering in the ICU, that information relative to the idea that he was dead seems to bother her almost more in the performance.

37:53Like she has a visceral physical reaction to that. So it's like all of these little things that if you interpret them just so can lead you to one radically different conclusion or another. But I will say I'm feeling a little less bad about saying that this actress looks like she might be cast to play a mother who would intentionally harm her child because that is the active text that is ongoing on multiple episodes.

38:13Rob:You think that's the story? I don't even know if that's the case, but it's supposed to be believable enough that the people on the floor of the pit would think it. I'm really curious to see where that goes. Like if the point at the end of the day is we've uncovered a crime or if the point is, as is often the case with a pit, you suspected this woman of doing something horrible when in fact, you know, she just took her eyes off her kid and, you know, is suffering the consequences of that. But also sometimes things are just horrible. And sometimes people are just terrible. And I think, again, there are just like enough little things.

38:48The fingernails, like again, her son's fingernails being dirty where her hands appear very clean. Maybe she's wearing gloves. It's like maybe there's a logical explanation. He's out playing in the yard and stuff. She's also rolling in and like, I mean, one, a dress, which may not be your first choice of gardening attire. Two, a very clean dress, which is just like, there's so many weird things about her story that just aren't adding up in a way that you understand why Langdon or McKay or anyone else would be like, do we believe this? And I think it is also fair to rebut, does that matter?

39:19Rob:Okay, Detective Mahoney is on the case, rather. Detective Nancy Drew Mahoney. You know, we're trying to solve everything out here. I do think that some people prefer, like, think it's very aesthetic to wear a flowery dress while gardening. I'm sure. But I know that I could not spend any time in the garden without being like smeared head to foot in soil. So you make some points. All right, let's talk about Maga Monica and Victoria Javadi, okay? Javadi, some highs and some hellos for Javadi inside of this episode. Actually, she's on top the whole time as far as I'm concerned. Because I really enjoy her Gen Z, like, okay, boomer reaction to Monica out in the ambulance bay.

39:59Rob:Victoria's waiting for her, like, video of ICE arresting Jessie to upload. She's getting that hamster wheel on the connection right now. Yeah, to her ticket. I do love this. This is a really clever premise inside the show that there's no reception inside of the ED. I really love that because cell phones have ruined so many TV shows and so many movie premises. So the idea that you can't get cell phone reception and maybe you can get it in the ambulance bay, but only sometimes is a really good move. Monica, how did this moment shine through for you? I mean, I think you need to take a bow first, Joe.

40:37I mean, you could smell her InfoWars subscription from a mile away.

40:44Rob:Snowflake is here, but maybe more importantly, I was stripping at purgatory to put myself through school when I was your age. Okay, Monica. All right. See, if she were truly into the intergenerational war, she would understand that Gen Z and Gen Alpha would support her stripping to put her way through school. They'd be like, yes, queen, go for it. Absolutely. But I do really love that Victoria's like, okay. You know, she's not, she's like, we don't use that term. And okay. Okay. Of all the things to like, of all the hills to die on, idiot savant is one of the dumbest possible hills. I have not heard anyone say that in a very, very, very long time.

41:19Rob:Okay. We did get a lot of, I don't need to read them, but we did get a lot of emails from people who work in the medical world who are like, I've met a lot of very conservative, very anti-vax nurses. And actually, it's sort of like very similar to this depiction of Ogilvy. Like Monica and Ogilvy are perhaps more realistically representative of some of the personality types you meet inside of these various industries. And that like Dana as a like tough talking working class but living out a charge nurse is like a Hollywood fantasy. And I do think that's, but it's interesting to have like these more realistic moments.

42:00Rob:All right. Here comes Mateo. How excited were you when Mateo showed up when you saw the back of the luscious curls come bouncing into the ED? I would recognize them anywhere. I love that he gets the full-on dramatic over-the-shoulder following him into the ED reveal. I have three primary reactions to this whole situation, Joe. Number one, the beard is working. It's resplendent. A-plus everything that's happening there. No notes. Let's keep it going. Number two, I'm sorry to say, Mateo does not know Ball. He brings up the Dr. J bit, says that he, like speaking of layups is his transition point, and then mimes a jump shot.

42:39And it's like, you kind of can't do both. You know, like there's a crossing of terminology of mechanics here that I, it just, it lays everything bare. It's like doing the German three, you know?

42:50Rob:Oh, I do know what you're talking about. One of my favorite scenes in all of cinema. Do people ever mime a layup? They don't really. Oh, for sure. They do? Yeah. How does one mime a layup? Well, not easily, but don't make the... The jump shot. Don't say the line if you're going to then mime a jump shot. Okay, fair enough. Have it one way or the other. But the third, I think the most important night, when he tells Javadi, when he specifically says the line, the night shift baby to Javadi, if you look very closely, you can see her brain short-circuiting in real time for like an absolute blip of a moment.

43:25And I'm here for it. I love it.

43:27Rob:This is her reward for having navigated the Bag of Monica moment with aplomb. She gets a Matteo interaction. So Matteo is here. It's very exciting. We did get an email from a listener saying, Joanna, how dare you not update your hotness rankings after what we saw with Langdon running in with the heat stroke kid and more importantly Nurse Jesse getting arrested by ICE. And I will say, I agree. Langdon's already been on the list, so he's fine. Nurse Jesse, I'm bumping him all the way up to number two. Nothing's gonna unseat Dr. Abbott. I'll pay for it. Like, nothing's bumping that off the list. But Nurse Jessie gets arrested by ice.

44:04Rob:That's number two. And I'm bumping him all the way up, and I feel very comfortable with that ranking. Without a doubt. Yeah, but Matteo, there's still time left in the day for you to move your way up the rankings. I believe in you, my guy. And I hadn't put this together, but Javadi, in our shift to the Pitt Knights, the spinoff series, we're trying to get greenlit so desperately around here. I think she would be a welcome addition to that particular group. I mean, we've got Abbott, we've got Ellis, we've got John Shen, who's stumbling in, Duncan in hand as usual. Genuinely my favorite character.

44:33Rob:Genuinely, Dr. John Shen is my favorite character. We can't have enough John Shen on screen, so we need the pit nights. And if we add Javadi, now we're getting a team together. Now we've really got something cooking. In that case, Javadi does not have to deal with her mom and her dad because presumably they don't work nights. So it's not her mom walking down going, was this you? That doesn't happen on the night shift. So come to the dark side, as Mateo says. I would love that. You and Kai and I did go see Ready or Not 2 to support our guy Sean Haddesey, Dr. Abbott himself at the cinema. Was it a great movie?

45:05Rob:No. Did we have a good time? Yeah. Are his line readings in that movie diabolical? Unhinged, yes. Is his Ascot game in that movie top tier? It is. He's surprisingly, like, he's a bigger part of that movie than I think people are probably expecting, I will say. In the press tour for that movie, he has been going around, people have been asking about Night Shift, and he's like, sure, I'd do that. So done. Sure, we'd watch that. Green lit the hell over here. Come on, let's get it going. I'm going to come back to Dr. Robbie again because his storyline touches this next one that I want to talk about, which is Samira, Mohan, Mel King, and this older couple that come in.

45:44Rob:And just to stave off any emails from people, I will note that the actor who plays the husband behind the wheel is Dan Florek, who played Captain Donald Craig in Unlawn, order from 1990 to 1993 and on special victims unit from 1999, 2014. I don't watch any. Actually, that's not true. I was going to say I don't watch any law and order. I did the D 'Onofrio years of criminal intent. So like I have watched some law and order, but I am not, I'm unfamiliar with this guy's game, but I do know people were excited to see him here. So here he is law and order staple. Okay. So this case we get, uh, you know, Dr.

46:21Rob:King, Dr. Mohan, uh, doing some great work with, this elderly couple and their daughter navigating all of that. Mohan has some tricks and tips that she uses to navigate this. This is when Megan Nort comes in and is like, hey, maybe all these medications together are causing some issues. We're coming with solutions to problems. We're doing a great job. This culminates in Robbie telling Dr. Mohan once again in this day, another person this day, to consider geriatrics. This starts off well, I actually think. He's really trying for a second there. Have you considered geriatrics more of an art than a science?

46:56Rob:Great. She does seem to have a facility for it. Great. No doubt. You have a predisposition to the pace. And the way he says it is so shitty. And the way her face falls is, I was just like, Robbie, you almost seemed supportive. I know. Until you were actually nasty to someone who's doing great work here. I was very frustrated by this interaction. incredibly frustrated to say the least I do think it speaks to though when you're in these sorts of environments the way your brain sorts of get it almost gets like rewired to be judgmental of people who can't cut it there right it's this idea of like I'm in this shit every day I've destroyed my life to be here you're unwilling to do the same so yeah and the people I value are the ones who are also destroying themselves and can somehow cope enough to show up to work the next day and the fact that Mohan has shown any resistance, and honestly, not even that much to the idea.

47:53She wants to continue working there, it seems. She's interested in this kind of medicine and frankly good at it. This case itself, say what you want about the pace of geriatric treatment. Her going the extra mile in the case that she did in season one, her instincts are what lead her and Mel to the conclusion that maybe even though this guy is getting good siloed care from all of these specialists, he's not getting good comprehensive care because of the way that all these medicines may interact. So she is good at this. It's just a little different than the way that Robbie wants it done.

48:28Rob:We got this interesting email from someone who is chosen to go by Dr. J. Talking about the subject line of this was toxic bosses, which I think is like a very good way to think about Robbie here. The whole quote, you're a golden child until you're not pseudo parental role where the boss is the one who has poor boundaries and shows what seems like favoritism. See Whitaker and Robbie. And the, if I treat you poorly, that's just tough love, but reality, it is childish, freezing people out because they have dared to disappoint you after everything that you have done for them. See Langdon. Flying off the handle, being petty or using emotional punishment.

49:05Rob:See how Robbie let Dr. Sidebanks know Roxy was dead. Gossiping even when pretended not to. See Robbie's side comment about Dr. Al-Hashimi early in the shift. Expressing, quote, concern that is really nagging, C, intimating Mohan maybe just doesn't have what it takes, then being somewhat exasperated or annoyed when she agreed because he was looking to cause emotional damage without being made to feel guilty. I think all of this assessment is dead bang on per Ravi inside of this season. Yeah, it's really tough. On the Dialysis dad, Mason and Oliver Haas, I'm kind of using nicknames just to help our listeners, but I do write down character names.

49:42Rob:But anyway, uh dialysis dad and his son come in this is chiefly framed here to show dr al-hashimi turning on langdon and essentially being quite short with him in a way that she hasn't been but also is she not sort of doing to him what he did to santos which is just sort of like well actually him again and again and she's right as she does it but he feels demoralized and undermined the way that she's particularly doing it after all of the warmth that she has offered him earlier in this day. And then putting Robbie in the position where he has to decide whether to side with Langdon or Alashimi, and he's like, this is my worst nightmare.

50:28Rob:I really liked this. And when he backs up Alashimi, she does a straight up double tip. What? This can happen? Yeah. This case is also here to We're a little bit living out with a pit, right? Because we were teaching everyone a lesson about rural hospitals and access to dialysis and all of that. And Medicare cuts. And Medicare cuts. You know what, Kai? Let's just roll it. Let's just get that thing going. Living out with a pit. I love it. It's beautiful. In terms of people who can check Robbie, another option here today is Duke. And Duke is here to do a couple things. One, to underline Robbie's hypocrisy about calling, you know, McKay out for going across the park to help Kiki last episode when he's just sort of like pouring all these resources into Duke, which you highlighted.

51:20He is not pushing Duke to the front of the CT line.

51:25Rob:He is pissed that Duke keeps getting bumped down the CT line. But all of that is true. Also, our listener, Stephanie, in terms of like Robbie's hypocrisy, Stephanie pointed out that last season, the way she put it is Robbie pouring scarce blood into Leah last season. Like, we are low on blood. We have doctors literally giving blood while treating other people. And Robbie, well past the point of saving Leah, is, you know, pumping a lot of blood into this young woman who unfortunately didn't make it. Again, that was framed as a, this is a breaking point for Robbie moment, a bad decision for Robbie.

51:59Rob:But the fact that he then does not have, you know, space for other people when they bend and break rules is, you know, I guess frustrating. Let's start there. Because I do think the bending and breaking of rules is happening across the board in a lot of different ways. Some of which are fine. Some of which are maybe part of like the institutional process. Like, for example, Becca being ushered as a VIP patient. That seems to be like the way business is conducted here. And you may have a feeling about that, but I think there is a tangible psychological benefit to having Mel not worried about her sister being five hours in the waiting room.

52:36Then there's things like McKay, which is like she is going across the street to the park to treat Kiki on company time, bringing another student doctor with her, using hospital resources in a way that is good human behavior. But is it the best management of a shift of medical professionals when they're already crunched? I think you could probably, reasonable people could disagree on that one.

52:56Rob:I agree. That reason people could disagree. I also think that it was like 15 minutes in a long-ass shift. And then she is like, there's no signs of her going home. So I just like, I don't know. And again, a lot of our listeners and many people in general are sort of like, that's the point. Robbie sees his own behavior in these other people and it bothers him. But if there is a sort of like larger physician heal thyself arc for Robbie, I would love for him to say, hey, Dr. McKay, I understand why you felt like you need to do this. Here are some of the risks that it poses for the hospital, but I understand why you did that.

53:33Rob:Not your patient died while you were gone, you dumbass. You know, like there's, there are different approaches. Oh, his reactions almost uniformly suck to almost everyone he's working with this season. So it's like, there's the question of like, was a, was a like hospital crime actually committed here? Is this that big of an infraction? And then there is, what is Robbie's response to that infraction? and they're disproportionate almost every time. Right. Anything you want to say about Duke inside of this episode? Nurse Livy, big fan of her. Excited to see her here. Anything else you want to say?

54:05I mean, he does pose the million dollar question to Robbie, which is why are you so eager to get out of here? And it is the other side of the martyrdom, which is Robbie even himself recognizes like, if I don't get out this second, I'm never going to get out. Like he needs a break. He needs relief from this life. He's also just like, I mean, in the spirit of true detective, I just want him to stop saying odd shit, just constantly around every corner, insinuating that he may never return, suggesting that like, oh, the hospital's going to be in your hands. Oh, my apartment's going to be in your hands.

54:39Oh, when I'm gone, you're going to need to do X, Y, and Z. He just can't help himself. And Duke is, to your point about like people who can check him, really the only person who's like, so what's going on here? Why are you doing this in this particular way? And what is so important about tonight that you have to get out?

54:55Rob:Right. I love that, the idea of Robbie being the rust coal of BDT. Talking about psychosphere. But I do think, well, on that note, we get this amor-fatty exchange. This is what I'm talking about. Yeah, exactly. This is a rust coal moment. A lot of people were noting that in last week's episode when Dr. Hashimian was asking a heat stroke mom, like sort of, have you ever thought about hurting yourself if the camera lingers on Robbie's face? We get a lot of those moments inside of this episode as well. After he leaves Duke, we just are on his face walking down the hallway, you know, and just sort of like dealing with him, dealing with his emotions.

55:35Rob:And then inside of this like sort of firework explosion case where a guy busts his head wide open, Joy gets to staple it back together imperfectly, Um, great stuff. Um, we get this gunpowder's in my blood and this camera lingering on Robbie, a more fatty, right? So like love of fate. And then Santos is like memento Mori. I've seen 28 years later. As we all should, frankly, but a more fatty, right? Uh, an attitude in which one sees everything that happens in one's life, including suffering loss as good or at the very least necessary. I have a bit of World War I poetry that I would like to quote for you, but I want to hear what you think about this moment first before I inflict that on you.

56:24I do love the way that Robbie, every time he's confronted with some of these very direct conversations about the way he's talking or the way he's conducting himself, he just kind of trails off and exits them without having any kind of resolution whatsoever in a way that's just been a consistent drumbeat throughout the season. He never really has an answer for why he's doing what he's doing. He just kind of walks away. I think that really works. I also think in addition to like the gunpowder in my blood aspect of that exchange, as that guy is sort of like whistling the effect of a firework, you get like this wince, this like physical wince from Robbie that he then does later when the phones are going off.

57:03And it's just like, this man is a husk. And he's frayed in ways that he's clearly not equipped to deal with right now. But he is equipped to, you know, just like pass off a little casual Latin here and there. Try to pass on some wisdom, I guess, in the way that he does.

57:18Rob:I do think it's interesting. If you go back to that quote that I read at the top of the episode from Noah Wiley about season three, this idea that like doctors benefit from being patients. If season three is the like post-therapy season or the like currently in therapy season, like I'm excited for that because like I don't mind this like spin out Robbie season if it means we are getting a sort of like like, on the mend Robbie season. But this idea, to your point, there was a combination of this sort of, like, amor fati plus that sort of whistling sound of the firework, which also sounds like a bomb being detonated.

57:57Rob:And I think combined with our listeners, our listener writing in about this idea of moral injury, which is, again, something that, like, you think about a lot when you think about veterans of war, this poem, Dulce Decorum Est, by Wilfred Owens, which is one of my favorite poems. Really? Jo, you can only be yourself. I can only be myself. I love World War I poetry because it's like, war fucking sucks, actually, in the most flowery torology ever. But dulce et decorum es pro patria mori means it is sweet and just and the right thing to do to die for your country. And this is the final stanza of this poem that sounds to me so much like working in this particular ER.

58:41Rob:reads like this. If in some smothering dreams you too could pace behind the wagon that we flung him in and watch the white eyes writhing in his face, his hanging face like a devil's sick of sin, if you could hear at every jolt the blood come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud, a vile incurable sores on innocent tongues, my friend you would not tell with such high zest to children ardent for some desperate glory, the old lie, dolce et decorum est, pro patria mori. So this, like, talking about someone dying on a wagon is just sort of like blood gargling from their lips, frothing, eyes rolling.

59:23Rob:I'm like, this is the trauma of watching dialysis dad or heat stroke kid or all, you know, all of these people come into the ER and like are on the brink of death or die. These are people who are go to war every single day and they are traumatized. But the part, the point of that poem, this idea of like, dolce et decorum es pro patria mori, this idea that Robbie has of like, it is the right and just thing for me to do to break my life in order to be here because I am saving and helping people. And like, on the one hand, yes, but on the other hand, no, because you can't do, go on the way that you've been going and do the good work that you most want to do in helping people.

1:00:07And also you aren't the only person who can do it. Right. And honestly, it's very understandable that for someone with Robbie's level of skill and with his level of expertise, that he would trick himself into thinking because I am saving people's lives, because I'm pulling off these miracles in the room, that all of this depends on me. But it doesn't have to be him in the room. And he could pull himself out of the equation, maybe not quite as seamlessly as Joy did, leaving like on the dot as soon as his shift ends. But like he has to get out enough to treat himself, to take care of himself. He's not willing to do it because in part, he has fooled himself into thinking that it can't be anyone but me.

1:00:44Rob:Somewhat relatable content, honestly. Okay. With much lower stakes. I do want to shout out, on the fireworks case, I would like to take this opportunity to shout out Garcia. for the incredible requesting of a custom elk bone carved hunting blade, and then telling Robbie you'll make a great ex-husband one day. No notes. Great stuff. On that note, should we be worried about Santos? Okay, so we got a ton of emails about this, and I was sort of like rolling my eyes a bit at all these emails we got that were just sort of like, is Santos headed towards serious self-harm? We've seen like the cutting scars on her, but she's, she headed towards something, you know, we're all on sort of like Robbie suicide watch.

1:01:29Rob:Should we have our eyes somewhere else? And then inside of this episode, she, she nicks a scalpel from like, you know, the suture cabinet or whatever. Um, and so I was like, oh, are our concerned listeners correct? I don't know. Um, but we have this moment, we have her interaction with Whitaker where she is like, obviously, uh, quite upset that he is perhaps going to leave her going to house it. Javadi eating this up with a spoon. Once again, reward for dealing with Maga Monica. She gets to witness this exchange. Whitaker's like, you like living with me. Just go ahead and say it, man. You love it.

1:02:02The physical transformation in Whitaker as he realizes he can lord something over her is a great and funny moment within. I have to say, just like one of the darkest episodes we've seen for Santos yet because of all this and the way it's building.

1:02:15Rob:We got this really interesting email, I thought, from a listener who wants to go by MH about Santos taking cues from Robbie. They write, Santos is taking all of her cues from Robbie and how to behave in the workplace. The refusal to work with Langdon, the sense of justice that goes beyond reasonable at times, the resistance to working with others slash being easily threatened, the disdain for Dr. Al-Hashimi's changes, not to mention sleeping with someone you work with. I see this all the time across industries, younger professionals taking cues from flawed older ones and ending up with habits and behaviors that hurt their careers.

1:02:43Rob:As a young person, you're drawn to mentors that quote, break the mold, without realizing that you need to know all the rules before you can break them, and that breaking the mold has real costs and that privilege will play a role in how many rules you can break. I think we're watching Santos bump up against the limitations that come from acting like Robbie when you don't have his experience, relationships, and privilege. And I think I found that really fascinating. And so to watch Robbie directly coach Santos inside this episode and do once again, a do as I say, not as I do, you have to learn how to work with Langdon and hey man, go see a fucking therapist, right?

1:03:20Rob:All advice that he is unwilling to give to himself. He's really something else. But I thought that was really interesting to think about. Santos is like a young woman just starting out, trying to behave like this 50-something-year-old cowboy doctor. And it's just sort of like, it's not right that he can get away with it and she can't. But the whole system is not right. But I thought that was a fascinating read on Santos. Anyway, are you worried about her? How do you feel about her? Terrified. I think in part, I agree with you about the emails which have been trickling in over the course of the season, kind of pointing a finger at this, that this could be a possibility.

1:03:56And I think it would be really smart TV storytelling to have all of the big, loud, blaring stuff be like, Robbie, motorcycles, everyone's worried about him all the time. And then Santos is like off to the side and she's looked like she's about to collapse all day. She's been told that her like professional progression could be stunted by this whole charting situation with Dr. Elashimi. Langdon is lurking around every single corner. Her situationship is going sideways. Ramen is spilling everywhere. Like everything, and even Whitaker, who clearly at this point is like one of the people she is closest with, might be moving out at a time where she really probably needs him more than any other.

1:04:35And it's like all this stuff is piling up and piling up and you can see this character kind of falling through the seams where she didn't get like the pep talk from Dana in the stairwell that Mel did. You know, she hasn't gotten the like, let me pull you aside and let's actually talk about what's happening that so many characters have had the opportunity to do this season. She does get her speech here as far as like what Langdon coming back has meant to her and the way it has kind of like reactivated some of these anxieties. And some of those are real, like the stuff about being gaslit on her first day, that's real.

1:05:06The stuff about everyone looking at her differently, I imagine a lot of that is imagined. A lot of that is kind of projected based off of she's feeling like a pariah and thus interpreted that she's a pariah.

1:05:15Rob:And behaving in a way that maybe makes her feel even more distant from everyone else. I love Whitaker. I mean, I really loved that ending for them last season. And I love Whitaker as this, like, rare safe space for her. Like, someone that she can tell these things to. And, like, even if, you know, there is this danger of him house-sitting for Robbie. And also, like, he's calling Amy from the ambulance bay. Like, Amy's picking him up. He's not going home, you know, to Santa's. Farm benefits start as soon as the shift is over. So, you know, I... And I love her talking about him eating her avocados.

1:05:48Rob:Listen, if you eat my avocados, I don't want you in the house. I don't have a jingle for this, but I would just like to introduce a new recurring segment that I would like to call Pitting Out with a Pit. And it is... Aren't we all? Isn't that everything? It's when the pit is like, and now in Pittsburgh history or Pittsburgh culture. So we get the Revolutionary War reenactors, right? And Linda being like, are you from Fort Pitt Museum? I love, you know, which is like, I guess, the Colonial Williamsburg of Pittsburgh or something like that. I want to say it does kind of track that Langton would be like a big Revolutionary War nerd.

1:06:26Yeah, that's true. Just kind of fits.

1:06:28Rob:But like very pitting out with a pit. Like, you know, when they're like, hey, did you know that these guys invented ambulances? Or like, hey, did you know this? I think it's fun. I like it, but it's like a funny recurring. It's a great show. I would also like to introduce to you my new favorite character. and it is sunburn lady in the red, white, blue bikini. Thank God she is here. Because like, again, this is a very intense, very chaotic episode. And sometimes as we're unraveling like all these medical mysteries of like, oh my God, what's happening with this woman who may have harmed her son?

1:06:58Oh, what's going on with this dialysis dad? Like, how do we get him basically back to life from like drooling pink goo coming into the ambulance bay? Sometimes you just walk into a room and it's like there's a lobster in a bikini and it's just like, this sucks.

1:07:12Rob:But she also is just like walking behind in one scene. She's just walking in the bathroom. And I'm like, I think I'm more delighted by the prospect of this than the furry even. Like the opportunity for her to just sort of like be walking around, like sort of like tottering around in the background. And maybe it's just because I've experienced some like absolutely heinous sunburns in my life as an incredibly fair-skinned person. But I was just like, representation, it matters. And here it is. You know, we don't know what it feels like to have your head flapping open to be stapled shut. It seems horrible, but we don't know.

1:07:45We do know what this feels like. Maybe not full body to the extent that you have like the sunglasses reverse tan,

1:07:50Rob:but this is tough. We're from the British Isles. We know what's going on here. Okay, last but not least, just a roundup. Dr. John Shedd, as you mentioned, is here. I did like a literal hell yes fist bump on my couch when I saw that. Digby is still here, so shout out to Charles Baker for getting paid all season to just be here. Love that. And here comes Orlando. though. Samira's patient from earlier in the season, he fell. This is going to be really hard, really hard for her, right? She blames herself already, and this is going to be really hard for her. It's almost worse when you try to do the right things and still come up short in the treatment of patients.

1:08:27She tried to warn him that some version of this could absolutely happen today, and it couldn't keep him in the room. And I'm terrified to see how hard Mohan takes that.

1:08:39Rob:And is anyone going to offer her grace for that or not? Yeah. But the good news is the night shift is starting, so that means Dr. Jack Abbott should be here any moment. Please come back. If anyone has some grace for Dr. Mohan, it might be him. All right, anything else that we haven't mentioned in this incredibly jam-packed episode? I have one, I think, philosophical question for you, Joe. And it's based off of a line from Dana, which is Dana, as she is coming out of her, like, on the verge of tears emotional episode with Robbie, or one of the many in this episode, says, how can I help uncluster this clusterfuck?

1:09:10Do you uncluster a clusterfuck or do you unfuck a clusterfuck?

1:09:14Rob:You unfuck a cluster, I think, right? That's kind of what I was thinking, but it led me down like an absolute spiral. Honestly, though, let's say you have all these fucks are clustered together and if you uncluster them, then they become smaller, more disparate fucks that maybe you can handle one by one. Do you know what I mean? But I feel like the implication of fuck is that the clusters are creating a fuck of a situation. I think maybe there's an implied of. A cluster of fucks that have now become a larger, like whatever the group name for a large amount of fucks is. And it's a clusterfuck, right?

1:09:46It apparently is a clusterfuck. I just really went down the rabbit hole with this, and I've come out on both sides simultaneously. So if you have a conclusive answer to whether you uncluster a clusterfuck or unfuck a clusterfuck, I would love to hear it. DrSideBangs at gmail.com.

1:10:00Rob:Well, we have to hope that Ogilvy's patient makes it out of his surgery okay, because I think he has the answer for us. Thank you to Rob Mahoney. Thank you to Kai Grady. Thank you to The Pit. What a incredibly complex and fascinating show. And like Noah Wiley and Dr. Robbie, like this is like a really complicated psychological portrait of a person that I'm having a good time unpacking even as I like get pissed off and disagree with him. We will be back, of course, with the love story finale, wrapping it up. And with The Pit episode 13, only a couple more episodes to go. Rob Mahoney, and then we're done.

1:10:32Somehow. Somehow it feels like we're doing this forever, but also I'm not ready for a tent.

1:10:36Rob:See you soon. Bye.

1:10:49Rob:The comedy movie event of the year. Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice. Coming only to Hulu and Disney Plus this Friday. Time to party. That's a great attitude. It's a time-traveling, ass-kicking movie event. You sound insane. Starring Vince Vaughn, James Marston, and Asa Gonzalez. I thought you were a clone. Well, clones aren't real, dummy. And time machines are super bonded in reality. Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice. Rated R. Written and directed by Ben David Grabinski. Only on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in.

1:11:29With a full lineup of non-alcoholic beer styles, you can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip-off with a variety of non-alcoholic craft styles available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com. Your beer, fit for all times.