‘The Pitt’ Season 2, Episode 9: Fireworks, Furries, and a Foineeeee Radiologist

6:08Rob:We're learning a lot. We're learning a lot. We love to learn.

6:10Jo:We have a lead on kind of what we want to put Kai in. I'll tease that it's aquatic oriented, but I don't think we need to say more than that. And I'm eager to find out what its subclassification is in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure it's going to be an educational experience through and through.

6:26Rob:I'm so excited. Kai, thank you for being a good sport about this.

6:30Jo:Just the best.

6:31Rob:Is this a season finale sort of special, don't you think? Like celebrate the end of the season?

6:36Jo:I think that makes sense. That feels right. I think we all need to be in the same place, you know, get those nice cameras going.

6:42Rob:We're doing this in HD.

6:45Jo:That goes without saying. How about 4K?

6:48Rob:4K. We are doing this. All right. Thank you, Kai. Of course.

6:52Jo:It is going to be a little strange, Joe, when there's like another mass casualty event and here's Kai sitting in studio in a furry costume.

7:00Rob:I mean, speaking of which, Rob Mahoney, how do you feel about, I guess, being on the right side of history when it comes to water parks inside of this episode?

7:08Jo:This isn't the kind of history I wanted to be on the right side of. I'm not any happier about it than you are. Okay.

7:14Rob:This episode is directed by Sean Haddesey. And, you know, Dr. Abbott is here. Really good Dr. Abbott, Robbie scene at the end of this episode that I can't talk to you about. Did you like this episode of television, Rob Honey?

7:28Jo:How could I not? I mean, we have a furry. We have a hot radiologist. Everything is happening for us all at once. And I did find it to be a thrilling episode and, as usual, quite an emotional one.

7:38Rob:I do want to hit some emails really quickly. Our listener, Leslie, said, former bedside nurse here, now working in research, but very grateful I never had to deal with paper charting. I think the pharmacist, so we talked about Dr. Megan Nord, who is still in a wide shot inside of this episode.

7:57Jo:Joe, she almost made it into the foreground. Yeah. And then as she's walking closer, the camera panned away. What a cruel joke.

8:05Rob:uh leslie said i think the pharmacist has to stand next to the the machine that dispenses the meds because it can't be locked unlocked triggered electronically during the blackout i get why she's there rob and i are not disputing that we're just saying that doesn't prevent the camera from getting closer to this actress uh if it wanted to so yeah why is the camera a hundred yards away at

8:26Jo:any given point in time i i just think we could switch it up a little bit it's a great question

8:31Rob:A lot of listeners wrote in and commented about this idea. We were talking last week about Mel sort of being distracted by the deposition. I don't know if you heard that she has a deposition and sort of saying something insensitive around a patient. And we were like, oh, that seems out of character. And then we got a lot of, well, actually, Mel has done this before a couple of times. And so this is Mel, who is extraordinarily good at her job. This is one thing that she bumps on sometimes is just getting like overly excited about sort of like a medical mystery or something like that and saying something that perhaps the patient doesn't want to hear.

9:02Rob:So that's something to think about. also the Trinity Santos line from last week about the blood alcohol level like want to guess because it's fun is a direct callback to something that Langdon said to her in season one word for word and I believe I couldn't completely confirm this but I believe he said it about Louis so it's like a real twist of the knife from Santos to say that I mean it already felt we both already felt like it was a twist of the knife but now we understand like how twisty that particular stab was

9:34Jo:Cuts even deeper, to say the least.

9:37Rob:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I found out, this isn't from an email, but I found out just from, I think, Instagram or whatever, that a few of the background nurses in the show are actual nurses. We knew that Nurse Jessie, Ned Brower, had a background, but there's a couple other ones. There's the guy with the glasses with the clear frames. There's an older gentleman. There's a middle-aged one with reddish hair. those are all and then and then nurse kim who's had like several lines those are all actual rns um who are sort of medical advisors on the set yeah but they're there to sort of make you know to move more naturally in the background of a shot during a thing and to call out stats more naturally inside of a scene so i thought that was really cool that like those you know i had been noticing clear frames glasses guy a bit more and i was like that guy i'm sure he doesn't but i was like, who is that guy?

10:30Rob:What's his deal? And then it turns out he's a real nurse. So that's exciting.

10:33Jo:You know, Joe, have you ever gone clear frames?

10:35Rob:I never could. I never would. Wow.

10:38Jo:That was, I, that was, there was a lot in that response.

10:40Rob:You have to have a face for it. And I don't think I have the face for it. I think I need a, like a, a dark, chunky, heavy frame on my face. You know what I mean? Wire rim? I can't handle that either. I think I need, I need something a little bit more intensive. So, you know.

10:53Jo:See, I'm stumbling into all kinds of worlds of education today. Thank you. Thank you for bring me up to speed, but you know, glass is not my forte.

11:00Rob:I, I mean, once again, people can go on our Instagram and see you in fake glasses, but yeah, you have to find the right, you have to find the right frames on your face. It's a whole thing. I want to, I want to dig into one more email that we got from a listener. It was a point that I kind of wanted to, to bring up with you last week and I didn't really find a way to talk about it. So I'm really glad our listener, Ryan wrote in about this, about this idea of Howard as a character. And you were talking a bit about the story that they tell about Howard and how he got to the way that he got and stuff like that.

11:34Rob:And our listener, Ryan, was sort of bringing up this idea of like, did we need sort of like a story about Howard? Or is just the fact that he's a human and he deserves dignity sort of enough? And I had been thinking about that, not just with Howard, but with like, with Louis. And like, we get this story after Louis passes about like how, you know, he, you know, became an alcoholic. Inside of this episode, we have Roxy say like, I never even smoked a cigarette. There are ways in which these pit backstories, because the pit is so interested in like, challenging your preconceived notions about characters and about cases.

12:14Rob:Right? So don't judge this patient. You don't know how they got this way. And don't judge this doctor for their brusque or whatever demeanor. We're going to twist the camera at a different angle on this person and you're going to see that you misjudged them. So the pit really likes to say, you've misjudged this person or slow down before you make a judgment or something like that. So I understand that that's something that pit likes to do across the board. And of course, we want backstories on characters. Like, of course, I was having an argument with someone about this where they're like, well, do you mean you don't want any backstories on characters?

12:48Rob:Like, no, obviously, like, that's TV drama. Like, I understand. I just think that sometimes the pit feels the need to, like, turn people into little angels. And, like, you know, through no fault of their own are they X, Y, and Z. and I don't know that that really gives you that sort of like everyone deserves dignity and empathy the way that just saying like just their existence means they deserve dignity and empathy.

13:18Jo:Do you know what I mean? Totally. I think in this case, it may have been a great opportunity to just have him be a person without a backstory. Like I was ultimately like moved and interested in that idea, but as far as what that character could be standing in for the larger show, and frankly, it's a stronger statement not in the case of this character, but anyone who rolls into the ER, if they are like not an imperfect person, if they are just a person of the world who has their flaws, who may be fed into some of their self-destructive instincts in this way or that, as we all do, and yet they're still deserving of care, just like everybody else is.

13:50Rob:Yeah, I was thinking about the college-age kid who has like brain death in season one, and it's like, it's because he took drugs, but like the drugs were laced with fentanyl, they didn't, you know what I mean? Like, there's just so many cases where it's just sort of like, but this just happened to them and that happens all the time but like i i think that um you know the pit as we've mentioned before not always like the most nuanced show that exists but i think as it goes on it could afford to have a few more like okay yeah this person is an addict or this that or the other thing and they don't need sort of like an shine the halo angelic reason as as to why, do you know?

14:29Rob:But if people disagree, it's an interesting conversation I think to have. Definitely. And I'm not sure I'm right. But I was really compelled by this listener email and it got me thinking about across the board sort of this tendency that the pit has. Another point that Ryan made separate from this point that I really liked is he was like, the revelation of Joy's eidetic memory means that every time Ogilvy sort of jumped the gun and answered a question, she definitely knew the answer and she was just sort of like watching him twist. Like we kind of already knew that about her, but like this really underlines that whole dynamic even more, which I think is, is pretty fantastic.

15:09Rob:And then this is the question that I have for you, Rob.

15:12Jo:Please.

15:12Rob:It is extremely hot. We've, we've, we've, we've got a furry with a heat exhaustion. We've got people just sort of like in pools of sweat in chairs. Um, it's, it's hot outside. Perla like complains about how hot it is outside when she's asked to go into the ambulance bay, etc.

15:31Jo:The waiting room smells to high hell, as we're told repeatedly throughout these episodes.

15:35Rob:But we have so many characters wearing hoodies, so many doctors wearing hoodies for their entire shift. Now, like I'm willing to entertain the idea that the E.R.E.D. is like highly air conditioned. But like, I don't I was just sort of like it's they go like they go to great lengths to tell us how hot it is. and then like McKay's wearing her$200 Aviator Nation hoodie like the entire shift. I just have some questions about it.

15:59Jo:Especially if we're going to tell a proper summer story. I need it to be like full summer of Sam, right? I need everyone to be sweating bullets. I need people to be getting like increasingly exasperated with each other. Like I want to turn the temperature up in the pit in every possible respect. So if those hoodies aren't tied around shoulders or waists by the end of this, then I think we have failed ourselves as a pit watching society.

16:22Rob:I mean, this is, I mean, it's definitely a costuming choice to sort of differentiate so everyone's not wearing the same, like, pair of scrubs, but I still have some questions about it. All right, where do you want to start inside of this episode? Which case do you want to go into?

16:37Jo:Yeah, do we start with a furry? Do we start with something serious? Do we start with something in between or a character beat? I'm torn, Joe. I mean, honestly, there's a lot of red meat in this episode. Maybe that's the place to start. I want to talk about the people in this episode who are being gawked at as if they are pieces of meat, including our new hot radiologist friend, who have we ever seen Victoria Javadi so locked in on anything in the pit so far as this man?

17:04Rob:Dr. Nick Barker. Do you feel like Mateo should be jealous wherever he is, resting up for his night shift? He should be upset to see Victoria drooling over Dr. Nick Barker here.

17:15Jo:I've never seen anyone look at Mateo like this. And maybe he's too down to earth and relatable. Maybe this is just like the new kid on the block kind of syndrome. But I mean, the whole nurse's station is ground to a halt by his arrival. Princess is frozen in time, mouth agape, and then just making repeated passes at him. I'm just saying he's having quite an effect on the entire floor.

17:36Rob:So this is the guy who Princess sort of told us about earlier in the season, right? She's like, there's a new hot doctor in radiology, I think, right? and um i just love how annoyed dana and robbie are by this by how distracting it is perla just sort of snapping princess out of her trance uh i did really enjoy joy like like showing this guy up

18:00Jo:um he doesn't seem very good at his job i know we're just meeting him well i think i think this

18:05Rob:is i mean send your emails if you're angry if i say this but i think this is another july effect moment, right? He's brand new in radiology and he's sort of making some, he's hot, but he's making some errors. So, you know, we're doing our best out here. Dr. Nick Parker on that front. Are you interested in the listener generated list of hottest moments on the pit?

18:26Jo:You already know that I am.

18:28Rob:I gave, I put together a top 10 list, uh, based on comments that we got on Tik TOK and Instagram, et cetera. This is throughout the whole series. This is your official list. You might be surprised who made it on the list twice, but here we are. Number 10, I'm giving it to season one, episode nine, Dr. Whitaker kills a rat, right? He just snaps the neck of a rat. Here's what I'll say. Our listeners, you know how you were like, oh, Joanna, you really like calm reassurance or whatever. They like kind of violent, sort of aggressive, sort of smirky snarky. Like that's what they seem to find really hot.

19:06Jo:So, you know, that part doesn't surprise me. A man killing a rat. I am sorry. I don't care who that man is. It's not a hot thing. That's that's not it. Number nine, Dr.

19:17Rob:Santos. Trini Santos threatens a potential child molester with blink twice. If you agree with this once, if you want me to let you die. That is that is also in season one. Season two, episode two, Dr. Robbie holds baby Jane Doe. You know, it's it's a classic for a reason. And in season one, episode two, Dr. Mohan yelling at everyone to stop when the sickle cell patient comes in. And Samira just like bellows for everyone to stop and freeze. They do. They listen to her. Again, our listeners like aggression, and I love that for them. Back on the list, Dr. Whitaker. And this was a really popular one.

19:56Rob:Uncapping the syringe behind his back in season one, episode four, right before he gets urinated on. So not the active urination, but the pre-urination behind the back syringe readying.

20:08Jo:Yeah.

20:09Rob:Our listeners are quite feral for this in the comments. So I thought that was really interesting.

20:13Jo:That's a great shout.

20:14Rob:Next on the list, Dr. Frank Langdon. ER Ken himself has made his first appearance asking the anti-vaxxer mom if she wants a mask during surgery in season one, episode nine. It's very snarky. Like, so mask or no mask? What do you think? Right.

20:29Jo:Can I tell you who agrees with that pick, Joe? the Jackies who are, again, looking at Langdon in this episode as if they might devour him alive.

20:37Rob:As if he is the three bean dip or however many beans in that dip. Okay.

20:42Jo:On that front, obviously, she's told she can't eat anything crispy. So you're just eating a layered bean dip with a spoon? And that's a treat?

20:51Rob:I think it depends how many layers there are because then at a certain point, you're just eating like beans with Glock, which doesn't sound too bad. But if there's like a lot of sour cream involved, then I'm not vibing. What if it's just like beans, guac, and salsa? That sounds kind of good. No?

21:04Jo:I just, but you need the chip. That's the whole point.

21:07Rob:What about a soft tortilla? Can I interest you in a soft tortilla?

21:10Jo:Maybe we can negotiate. Okay, great.

21:13Rob:Almost done with this list. Dr. McKay drills off her ankle monitor in season one, episode 13. Number three, really high on the list. Dr. Mel King finishes the spinal tap before Measles' mom can intervene and sort of smirks at her and says, all done. Okay, that was very high. Number two on the list, Dr. Garcia, Yolanda Garcia, season two, episode two, screens, I am the OR while resetting an arm.

21:38Jo:We regret the error.

21:40Rob:We really do regret the error. Number one, he's back here. It's Dr. Jack Abbott, donating blood while saving lives, season one, episode 12. So that is the top 10 list, according to our listeners, who like rat killers. They really like Whitaker a lot. Which is fine.

21:55Jo:No objections.

21:56Rob:They like blood. They like threats. They just like, they like their pit doctors aggressive. I like them sort of soft and gentle. They like them aggressive.

22:03Jo:You know what they like, Joe? They like comeuppance. They like the little snark. Like we have triumphed over this patient's parent who's been an asshole this whole time and finally gets what for?

22:15Rob:Speaking of what for, Dr. Abbott naked yoga. Do you think people are gonna be normal about this or how do you think that people are gonna react?

22:22Jo:They always are. They're always super normal about all this stuff. The fan art I'm sure is not out there already.

22:29Rob:um all right i'm on a genuine genuinely more serious note uh after furries and hot moments and all the other things to talk about we i will say this this this is the pit really getting me with like a are you sure joanna all season i've been like hey it's fourth of july when are we gonna see uh someone you know blow blow something fingers off with a firecracker and then young jude comes in and I'm like, not like this. I wanted an adult dummy, not a poor kid who has this like whole backstory and his sister comes in. So, um, thanks the pit for showing me myself in the mirror. I appreciate it. Uh, so here we are, we have Jude and his sister Chantal, um, and, and Santos once again, right off the back of, of this like lullaby moment with a baby, another, and this has been a consistent thing with Trinity actually across both seasons is like this protectiveness around children.

23:23Rob:So what did you make of Santos and Jude and Chantal and the whole storyline we get here?

23:28Jo:I mean, I think the repeated instances from Santos in terms of being the person in the room who is comforting Jude the most, right? It's like when he's not ready to see his hand, she's the one to assure him he doesn't have to. And everyone is telling him how scary the surgery is going to be, how severe this injury is. She's always the one who's giving the silver lining. I love that we're seeing this part of her kind of come to the fore more and more, especially when I know she has these wild, double-focused ambitions in terms of what she envisions for her career. But it does feel like she is being kind of slowly nudged towards, hey, if you wanted to be on a pediatric path, this could be something you're really good at.

24:07Jo:At the same time that Joy is showing a knack for radiology and Samira Mohan's being nudged into a geriatrics fellowship. It's like everyone is kind of finding what they are good at. And whether they listen to those things is interesting in and of itself, but it's so clear that she's great with exactly these kinds of patients.

24:24Rob:listening to supriya who plays um samira talk about um how her her interpretation of the way that mohan receives that from dr al-ashimi is is like a bit of resentment that like she can't hack it that she needs something like a little slower which is interesting because that hadn't like really occurred to me but like i also wonder how santos would react if someone's like Like, hey, have you thought about pediatrics? Like these people who are like here in the ER because they're like somewhat adrenaline junkies or something like that. And it's like, have you thought about P's? Have you thought about geriatric care?

25:01Rob:Like, I don't know. It's interesting to me.

25:03Jo:Well, one of my favorite things about Santos is no matter what you try to tell her, she would probably fight you about it. Whatever you tell her that she's good at or should do. I think she just has very specific ideas for herself and wants to be driven by like something internal. And so until she feels that call, I don't even think it's going to matter that this is something she's clearly gifted for or set for. It's going to have to be something that she finds herself.

25:27Rob:I think John Wells gave an interview last week where he was talking about the fact that there's going to be like an ICE storyline inside of this season. At the Actor Awards, like every single Pitt actor was asked about this plot line on the red carpet. They've all been media trained to hell to talk about it. I don't know that that's what's happening here with the Jews storyline, but we do get the mention of like his parents being deported to Haiti. at their immigration hearing. What did you think of this moment?

25:55Jo:I did take it as that. Maybe it was just because I had been, again, conditioned to look for the ICE storylines, given the news and the commentary about it. But this does seem like a firecracker case in the Trojan horse of a sibling care story in the Trojan horse of at least ICE-adjacent storytelling. And if this is that, if this is the much-Ballyhooed ICE case,

26:21Rob:Right.

26:21Jo:I find this to be like wildly restrained based on what The Pit usually is, where this is a show that has commentary on every kind of case that comes to the ED. And the most we really get, at least to this point, maybe it evolves beyond this, maybe Santos and Robbie like really dig in and, you know, get their takes off. So far, it's just like, man, shitty things really do happen around here. I'm shocked if that is all that there is with something as touchy and interesting and potentially fertile for exploration as this.

26:51Rob:So would you say this is not like your standard, like living out with a pit moment?

26:55Jo:It feels like they're running from living out with the pit, that they're scared of the fight in a way that I'm not conditioned for the pit to be.

27:03Rob:Kai, if they do wind up digging into this plot line, what do you think would be a good response to that, Kai? Living out with your pit.

27:17Rob:You're just going to drop that on me? That's my pal Jenny O 'Neill.

27:21Jo:I was about to say, I recognize those vocal stylings anywhere. And who better, frankly, to hit us with exactly this sting?

27:28Rob:Anytime you want to call for it, Rob, it's available to you. I will be taking liberal advantage if you'll allow it, Jo.

27:38Jo:Of course I will.

27:38Rob:Okay, let's talk about Becca and Mel, right? So Becca shows up, the exact wrong time, right? Mel has to go off for her deposition. Mel takes off literally like running when she finds out her sister's there. Who gets to side to the case but Dr. Langdon? I could not be more ecstatic if I tried. Langdon gets another run around the track with a, can you turn off the lights, close the doors as you go. He loves that move. He loves that move now. It's his new favorite. So excited for this, to see where this goes. He's so like, he and Perla were like, just so kind and lovely. And I'm just sort of like, as I continue to enjoy the Dr.

28:15Rob:Langdon redemption arc, they couldn't have set him up better. Robbie's like, I don't want to give him this case. and he was sort of like doing his Dr. Robbie peer through the window. How is Frank doing here? But Langdon's crushing it as far as I can tell. And Mel seems so, she's like, not an R2, anyone but an R2. So how did you feel about this?

28:35Jo:Oh, I mean, I adored it. And Langdon is right in telling Mel that Becca's in good hands, right? You can just tell from his communication style. He's talking to her differently than he does almost any other patient. The level of care, the level of attention, the level of specificity, in talking through exactly what's going to be happening and why it's all okay, is very touching stuff to watch. And I also love from Becca's perspective, she gets to meet all of her favorite characters from her favorite television show, The Pig, in real life. Dr. Robbie! And so it just makes for an amazing dynamic.

29:08Jo:I will say the one part of it that caught me once you think about it is Mel, as we've talked about, she and Langdon have this quite profound relationship that they've really bonded. They've also worked together for, at this point, 1.5 working days. And so the idea that Mel is at home saying all of these nice things about Langdon all the time, I mean, it hits a little different when you think about the timetable.

29:33Rob:It's a great point. And I do like that he's like, okay, like when she says that.

29:38Jo:It's really the only response.

29:39Rob:I do think it's interesting. Becca comes in with a couple things. Like, you know, I've been to the doctor before, Mel, and also like, my name isn't my sister, it's Becca. You know, these sort of like little moments of like individuation or independence that I think is interesting inside of that dynamic. We see that Mel cares so much about her sister and we love that about her. But like, you know, how much is she actually like acknowledging her sister as like her own person? You know, I have some questions about that.

30:10Jo:Well, just also the idea that Mel, for all of that care and love, doesn't nail it every time with Becca. Doesn't have all of this stuff like ironed out to perfection.

30:19Rob:Right.

30:19Jo:You know, in these haggard moments, like you're going to mess some things up. You're going to say something that rubs Becca the wrong way. Like that is life, even for someone who cares as much as Mel does about her sister.

30:29Rob:Howard comes back here. He's going up for surgery. You know, Dr. Jack Abbott gets to be charming and funny like through all of it. Again, people I think are going to be incredibly normal about that. Then we get this scene with Howard and his sister in the ambulance bay, and it just absolutely decimated me. I thought it was really well done. Once again, not just the actor who's playing Howard, who we've called out in the previous episode, but the reaction shots with Whitaker, Ann Abbott, the actress who plays his sister on the FaceTime. the like the like almost in the background oh i forgot to tell him i loved him sort of moment so we don't know i mean like howard's chances are are quite low according to garcia in terms of heading up to surgery we're not going to go to surgery with him another thing that um we should say friend of the pod matt midovich uh emailed me an interview that he did um with the folks on the show asking about mel's deposition and they were basically like we are not going to go up to the deposition.

31:31Rob:So like, we're, we're never going up to surgery. We're not going to go up and see Mel in her deposition. Um, we're going to like the ambulance bay and no further. It seems like is, is sort of the ethos of the show. So, um, I like, I'm going to be on tender hooks to see like if Howard's going to make it or not, but this is just like, no matter what happens, this is just like an emotionally wrecking ball of a, of a scene for me.

31:56Jo:I don't know that I can ever remember a FaceTime call or a video call on screen that got this sort of emotional response out of me. Usually, as soon as you put screen on screen on screen, there's just a level of disconnect that neuters some of the power of it. And this one just amplified it, right? I think some of it is just the physical and emotional distance between Howard and his sister after all of these years where they haven't been in contact, where he doesn't even really know his nephew. And it's like taking what could be his last moments just to catch up with family. is such a beautiful idea.

32:30And you're right.

32:31Jo:I feel myself rooting for Howard, maybe above and beyond any other patient in the history of the pit so far. I need him to come through alive, despite the fact that 50-50, I mean, being forced to confront that sort of proposition is unbelievable.

32:45Rob:But again, from Garcia, who is pretty brutal. Los Santos inside this episode has never shown tremendous bedside manner. There's some grace from Garcia. in letting Howard know what his actual chances are. And I'm just like, that got me more than anything else in this episode. And this is an episode where, you know, Roxy asks McKay like for any advice and says, I've never died before, which also like, well, actually the moment in Roxy's storyline that really got me was like when the kids come in with the ice cream and her older son says like, we're starting with salted caramel, which is mom's favorite.

33:23Rob:Like as just like, and then for the rest of his life, like that's just gonna be, you know, is he ever going to be able to eat salted caramel ice cream again? Like I just, yeah, it's really, really, really, really tough. How, how much, I don't know how to, how to ask this question, but like, does this feel like Roxy's last episode? Like, do you feel like, you know, cause this, this closing conversation with McKay was so profound and emotional and, and just really looking the end in the face is what it seemed like. And all of her family is gone at the moment. So what do you anticipate for the storyline?

34:03Rob:Or do you care to wonder about that at all?

34:06Jo:I think we'll probably get one more, like one more week with Roxy. And whether it will be a chance to say goodbye or if it will be more abrupt than anyone anticipates. That's one area where the pit can sometimes surprise you. But I have found this, and we've talked about Roxy and her story a lot. It's been coming up week after week. It's been so impactful every time. And it's just been one of these emotional pressure points that the show can jab anytime it wants to and has been so effective across the board. And there's always those little moments, like you're saying with the ice cream, Joe. Or for me, it was like when her youngest, I tried to hop up in bed with her and the wince from Roxy.

34:43Jo:She's in so much pain and has been hiding it from her family for so long in a really gracious showing to them, right? And trying to conceal from them how hard this has been for her. And kind of internalizing and processing that I think has just been one of the more emotional parts of this story. But I love that the show is letting it play out the way it has because this is not unlike other cases that roll through the pit, like subject to the speed of care or the effectiveness of this or that medicine. in, like, it's just one of those things that has to play out in its own time. And the fact that they're letting it do that week over week over week, I find to be really, really effective.

35:26Rob:There's something about like that homemade quilt on the bed, you know, um, the pictures of her kids around her, like a Himalayan salt light picture. I was just like, it's just really, the attempt to make this very sterile environment feel comfortable and homey and, and safe for this moment for this woman's life. This confession she makes to her husband that she's been in so much pain and has been hiding in it. It's just really... I'm not an astronaut.

35:54Jo:I don't need an astronaut.

35:55Rob:Audiences have spoken. Project Hail Mary is an awe-inspiring masterpiece. So I met an alien. If you've fallen out of love with going to the movies, this one will bring you back.

36:09Jo:Alien!

36:11Rob:Ryan Gosling in the first must-see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary, rated PG-13, may be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters March 20th.

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37:02Jo:So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2 %-er. learn more at wellsfargo.com forward slash active cash terms apply they tough mckay is obviously not

37:20Rob:just dealing with roxy she's got a number of other patients and there's this pcos patient patient who comes in a learning moment for whitaker about you know um again this is something the pit does over and over again this idea of like it's not just like shame or accident or whatever they can want like land you in the ed it can be like not being listened to by doctors when you've tried to get treatment for something and so this you know she comes in they have to do this pregnancy test on her this is like such a aggravating thing that women have to go through it doesn't matter like what's going on in your life you have to take a pregnancy test which feels very like handmaid's tale to me but like um and then for whitaker to say like well you know we'll to send her home with some payments and mckay to say like don't you think that's what other doctors have said to her and then to watch the excruciating 12 out of 10 pain she is like oh my god just a few moments like minutes later yeah and this like extremely serious thing that's going on with her and also just like you know the invasiveness of a transvaginal like ultrasound and like all this sort of stuff is just like really um but really frustrating that it's not like it's someone who was tried to take care of themselves and been let down again and again by the medical community, which is something the pit has talked about before, but like is worth like continuously revisiting, I think.

38:44Rob:So yeah.

38:45Jo:Definitely. And this woman, Amaya, I think is a really interesting sort of regular, like a different kind of regular to doctor's offices than we've confronted in the pit before where because of that, like she's going in and not getting answers and not getting answers and not being taken seriously and not having her pain understood or heard in any capacity. And so I found it really interesting that McKay's kind of first blush reaction is almost like defensiveness for her profession, right? It's like, oh, these things take time to diagnose sometimes in a way that's like explaining away what Amaya has been through.

39:18Jo:And then she kind of immediately corrects with Whitaker, as you mentioned, Joe, and being the one to advocate for keeping Amaya for observation. And not only is that 12 out of 10 pain just like hard to watch. But when you think about, that probably would have been her driving home, right? Like that would have been her on, like with no access to just like jump back into a doctor's office. Best case, she's out in that waiting room, like biding her time to be seen again. And maybe this is a reach on my part, but I think there's something about the mirror of this case and the one that Javadi is going through with her patient, who like very rapidly has a condition that worsens and worsens and worsens to the point that she now is in need of like very serious surgery.

40:01Jo:And maybe it's because both of these women's organs are literally twisting. And one of them, McKay and Whitaker to his involvement in this too, are like monitoring and are there and are observing and are there kind of closely ready to respond when something goes wrong. Versus part of what Javadi kind of fumbles in this episode is by not putting her patient through like the right processes, she falls through the cracks and nearly ends up dying as a result of just like medical oversight on this like crazy weird day in the pit, sure, but medical oversight nonetheless.

40:32Rob:It's a really interesting parallel. How much do you think, you know, Robbie's like, we got to debrief on this later. Like how much shit should Victoria get for something like, you know, like we've seen this time and again with doctors in the pit. You know, Whitaker had, you know, a patient die on him in season one. And like, you know, this woman does not die, but like, you know, Victoria made a mistake not understanding the analog process of what's going on here. Dana's defensive of her nurses, you know, all this sort of stuff like that. Like, how much is this, how much should this land on Victoria?

41:13Rob:And how much do you anticipate Robbie being like having a reasonable conversation with her or having one of his like more unreasonable conversations with her?

41:22Jo:I think part of why I don't know how to answer that question is I don't know what the reasonable conversation is with something like this. And the pit is so good at kind of putting these ideas before you about what is the right amount of responsibility for someone like Javadi to take. Even, you know, take the analog part out of it. Sure. If this was just a normal oversight, if Javadi takes the full emotional brunt of every case like this that happens in which she misses something, she will be a crater of a person in like a week right like just the frequency and the power and the heft of these cases is like no one is going to get it all right and we're told that over and over again at the same time when garcia kind of reads her the riot act or really her and whitaker both calls her baby calls her a nepo baby and and like rightly is taking her to task for fucking this up turning what could have been a very quick procedure into now like very serious surgery for this woman.

42:20Jo:I don't hear a lot of like accountability from Javadi. It's a lot of general like, oh, we missed this. Oh, it was overlooked. It's not like I did this. And when she's really pushed, she finally apologizes. But it's like, for me, a lot of what she's responding to in this episode is a lot more coming from a place of fear than accountability.

42:38Rob:I've been thinking so much about what you said last week about the way in which Robbie like doles out praise and censure and the way like and how thoughtful and kind he can be with his praise and then how thoughtless and reactive he can be with his censure and um how often there are like specific people like in season one very much like mckay and mohan being like real targets of his of his lashing out you know which is not you know which is not to say it's it's always the same people but i do i do think that is like of all the like fatal flaws inside of Robbie there's this like I don't know it got really dark in this episode when when Robbie was talking to Abbott about his trip and Abbott's like if it gets dark you know you call me and and and and Robbie says like if I come back like I'm not sure how seriously I was supposed to be taking these sort of very very very ominous moments from Robbie inside of this season.

43:43Rob:And, and as we wonder who is fit to lead the ED, you know, like is Dr. Al-Hashimi fit to lead the ED? Robbie doesn't think so in many ways. We have, we're working with even more information about like her neurological state and stuff like that. But like Rob, I mean, this is a question for Robbie in season one, right? Like he is, he is this, in many ways, this exemplary leader of, again, non-gender men, sort of like, like the exact kind of like paternal, like sure, figure that you want. But then there are these moments of anger and it almost is like self-anger that just sort of spills out onto all these people around him.

44:25Rob:And maybe that's just like a very realistic portrait of someone who operates under as much pressure as he operates inside of this show. I love a complicated character, so I like that he's not all one thing or another. I've just been thinking a lot about that sort of distinction that you drew last week as I look at this character going forward.

44:46Jo:Along those lines, Joe, I was really surprised at how the conversation between Robbie and Whitaker went in the break room when Robbie finally, you know, we get the seed planted from Santos telling Robbie about everything that's been going on with Whitaker and his like part-time farming, part-time stepdadding lifestyle that he's taken on. I don't know why, but I kind of expected Whitaker to say like, this is none of your business a little bit. Like it, for a conversation that was ostensibly about boundaries, it felt like Robbie was really overstepping his bounds.

45:15Rob:Yeah. Where was the, you're not my dad, uh, energy, but like, but I mean, this has been the sort of Robbie Whitaker, like teacher's pet sort of relationship, which is just, you know, I love Whitaker too. Our listeners love Whitaker. So like if there is to be a teacher's pet, may it be the rat killer himself. But tracking how Robbie treats different people is a fascinating thing to watch. Rob Mahoney, what would you call

45:43Rob:a spherical object that's made out of rubber bands? What would you call it?

45:49Jo:I would call it a rubber band ball.

45:51Rob:I would also call it a rubber band ball.

45:52Jo:Maybe we're too simple.

45:54Rob:Well, I just think this might be a regional thing. They call it a gum band twice inside of this episode, right? Or do you have a gum band and they throw the ball? So maybe that's just like a rubber band is a gum band.

46:04Jo:I think so. I have never heard the phrase gum band in my life.

46:08Rob:I have also never heard. I've heard rubber band, elastic, but that's usually for like a hair tie, right? Like do you have an elastic? Yeah, but gum band. Please do email us if this is a regionalism that we are unaware of. But I bring it up to segue us into talking about Monica, who is this sort of person who has shown up, played by iconic that guy, Rusty Schwimmer. Here she is. Like, I was so excited to see her. She's just like an incredible presence whenever she shows up. And I just like love her. I've seen it all shit. Her like, I got laid off because of technology. How's that working out for you motherfuckers?

46:47Rob:Her like, when Robbie walks out, she's like, Rabinowich. Like, it's just like really good shit from her. So how did Monica's appearance work for you?

46:55Jo:Well, I love that Dr. Alashimi, who isn't in this episode a ton, but got looped into that conversation just so she could eat crow one more time on the tech front. She's just kind of taking strays left and right. And then Abbott is kind of like looking at her from across the room. And that's most of her episode. But look, we needed Monica. The pit needed Monica. Like Larry and Antoine, I gotta say, I mean, my guys. Not coming through. Not coming through. Yeah. The making phone calls on the one emergency line that seems to be available, really tough stuff.

47:27Rob:They need the red telephone for water park emergencies, guys. Come on. Princess won the pool. Great. She sure did. How did you feel about Perla sort of holding Princess's feet over the fire, extorting some money from her? How did you feel about that?

47:42Jo:That's teamwork. They're really doing it together. They're making it happen. And, you know, ultimately an amazing Princess episode. the reaction shots, the gawking at the radiologist, her winning the pool. And what I would say, Joe, is like an insider leveraging the short industry style play from her based on the information she has coming from Westbridge.

48:05Rob:Wow, you've learned so much, Rob.

48:07Jo:I really have.

48:08Rob:You're a real finance guy now.

48:10Jo:I am a finance guy, and so is Princess, crucially. She knows what levers to press and who to tap for the best possible information. So we love to see Princess win on this podcast.

48:20Rob:For me, the real winner inside of this episode is my babe, Perla. Perla's battle with the fax machine that, of course, Monica is. But when Perla said, replace Toner, we live in hell, got one of the biggest laughs out of me in the whole episode. It was so good. As you know, I hate the fax machine. Where are we going to get that? 1988? Just incredibly good fax machine humor throughout this episode. I was a big fan of it.

48:46Jo:Also, I thought the fax machine ended up being a great illustration of what Monica brings to the space that other workers wouldn't, which is like the fax machine breaks. Yes, it won't print anymore. The toner situation is what it is. She's the only one who seems to understand well, the other direction still works.

49:01Rob:Also, she knows exactly where the form is because it's where she put it like 10 years ago.

49:05Jo:It's very true. She's on top of it.

49:08Rob:Peak, peak. Ogilvy, your favorite character. I wouldn't say that. The guy you see yourself the most in inside of the pit. He meets this English teacher. I'll say this.

49:19Jo:Actually, first of all, Joe, the person I see myself in the most is Santos in this episode when she's asked, are you free? And she asks, is anyone really free? That is me. That's where I see myself.

49:30Rob:Really good stuff. I will say, I see myself in the overly fussy corrective English teacher who Ogilvy is treating here. Oh, no.

49:38Jo:Pedant Joe has entered the chat.

49:41Rob:It's an internal monologue usually, but it does exist. It is constantly running. Thank you so much. I spare people. How do you feel about this Ogilvy sort of connecting with a guy who reminds him of his dad, who he's like, you'll have to, you know, like Ogilvy daddy issues have entered the chat. How do you feel about it?

49:59Jo:Well, I mean, who in the pit doesn't have daddy issues? That just seems to be a constant across the board. The implication, you know, I know some English teachers. I know plenty of English oriented professionals, the idea that you would be somehow disappointed in your child becoming a doctor. I feel like a misdiagnosis to say the least of many family dynamics. Would it be such a great disappointment?

50:20Rob:I don't know if it's that. It just might be that he like doesn't get along. Like maybe his dad is a pedant all the time. Sounds like. And they just don't get along.

50:28Jo:Yeah.

50:29Rob:But I think it's interesting that like Ogilvy himself is of course quite the pedant inside of the ED. So like learned it from dad, but like hated it from dad, but sort of passes the ball forward. Yeah, no, I mean, I don't think an English teacher would be upset if their child's a doctor. They might be upset if their child's an asshole, which is how I feel about Ogilvy. Fits the bill.

50:49Jo:The idea, Joe, that an art and history asshole versus a math and science asshole would butt heads and find their match in each other. It is kind of beautiful in its way.

50:58Rob:Oh, a bit romantic. I see.

51:01Jo:Look, I just think we're all looking for our yin and yang out there everywhere. And the fact that these people can find each other with only a kidney stone between them. I just think the universe works in mysterious ways.

51:11Rob:Can I ask you a question? This is like sort of a test I'm running on people at The Ringer.

51:16Jo:I'm terrified.

51:18Rob:Who was your favorite teacher in high school?

51:20Jo:Oh, it was easily my debate coach, Mrs. Potts. Absolutely elite teacher. Elite life mentor. One of the greats. Anyone who was in like Texas speech and debate silo program history, probably familiar, but a legend in the space.

51:36Rob:Would you say that you were a favorite of Mrs. Potts or of any of your teachers?

51:41Jo:Oh, that's a great question. In real time, maybe slightly, but in history, they forget. You're just a face in a wave of faces that are coming through. I'm not naive enough to believe that any teacher I had at basically any level would ever have a memory of me beyond like six months after I left their classroom.

52:05Rob:I doubt that's true. If someone wants to have Mrs. Potts send us an email about what a pleasure Rob was to have in class, please let us know.

52:13Jo:You just wanted to set up that hook. That's all you wanted to do here.

52:17Rob:I was just talking to Sean and Mallory and we were all talking about how we were like the favorite student of like an English teacher or an English professor at some point in our lives. And Sean was like, I think this is a fairly common thing. I think that's probably true.

52:30Jo:But is it more common for a ringer employee to be the favorite of an English teacher or for a ringer employee to think they were the favorite of an English teacher?

52:38Rob:That's a great question. I'm just saying. And I don't want to know the answer. Let's wrap things up. Dana congratulates Emma on her work with Alana. I thought this is a really beautiful moment. How did you feel about that?

52:49Jo:I'm a little mixed on whether I wanted to hear what the conversation was about that brought Alana back into the room. And it's like, it is feeding into my appreciation of Emma and her understanding of kind of like the moment and these spaces and kind of what goes into good nursing. All of that feels great. But a little mystery is nice too. And I think letting Emma have the win is the important thing. And ultimately me quibbling about the delivery is less so.

53:12Rob:Let's go back to Furries. Okay. So Santos and Garcia have this moment where Garcia is like, we're keeping it cash, right? Like, fuck, right?

53:21Jo:Keeping it super casual. I'll call you tomorrow. Definitely. And the day after that. Absolutely. is super casual.

53:26Rob:Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. But then Santos gets this sort of like invitation to join the furry community, right? Sure does.

53:35Rob:Like, this person is talking about her partner, her girlfriend. So like, she's not like necessarily flirting directly with Santos. But like, I mean, where else would you more likely find a polycule than inside of the furry community? I have to ask, you know. Joy was just like...

53:49Jo:Well, many animals in nature, Joe. Like, they have very non-monogamous styles.

53:53Rob:This is a great point that you just made. and I'm sure you were a favorite or you were a biology teacher too, but like this idea of like Santos getting this like warm invitation. Santos already knew about Anthrocon, by the way. She did. So like, I think she's fur curious at least. Do you know what I mean?

54:10Jo:It's just furious.

54:15Rob:Joy seemed a little interested too, a little like intrigued and into it. Joy continues to be a favorite character of mine. I continue on this, like, I think Joy is queer track, maybe. Could there be, like, a Joy Santos situation? Who's to say? I don't know. But, like, I think they all deserve to go to Anthrocon on their day off. I think Whitaker should go, too. Dress as a rat, probably.

54:40Jo:It would only be right. You have to bring him full circle. I do think, look, of all the interactions, and we talked about this, Joe, who on the staff do we want to see confront the furry or treat the furry when they inevitably come through the ER? First, I will say the decision to just have the furry and the costume pop up throughout the episode without anyone really remarking upon it, but constantly gawking at it. And my all-time favorite is when the furry wheels by Becca and Becca just sort of veers off following them.

55:11Rob:I can just like beelines to be like, what's that?

55:14Jo:I mean, you got to get to the bottom of it.

55:16Rob:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

55:17Jo:But of all the places we could land, Santos is a great one. and specifically the idea of a furry approaching Santos with, this is the kind of furry I think you are. This is something I'm interested in. A scaly, as we've learned.

55:31Rob:Do you agree with the assessment that Santos is a dragon?

55:35Jo:I kind of like it. I'm going to say in part, with all due respect to the furry in this episode, if you're a wolf or a fox or anything cat or dog adjacent, you're basic. Like, that's just like the most assembly line furry stuff that I can imagine.

55:52Rob:There's furries in the first place.

55:54Jo:Well, you know, but within the space, in the Anthrocon community, I think people are turning their noses up a little bit. In particular, the dragons seem to, you know, they walk to the beat of their own drum. Santos, of course, does herself.

56:07Rob:I think you're making wild presumptions about a community you know very little about.

56:14Jo:Almost nothing about, but I would like to know more. And frankly, I would like art.

56:18Rob:Boxes, wolves, cats, dogs, you're basic.

56:22Jo:I'm just saying every picture I've ever seen of a furry costume in any context has always been one of those. And so where's the creativity? Where's the variety? Where is, frankly, the level of prescription and care that is put into, I am feeling your essence, Trinity Santos, and it is a dragon. That's all I'm asking for.

56:40Rob:Rob, would you like our listeners to diagnose your fursona, your essence?

56:45Jo:I would like them to diagnose both of our fursonas. I'm not going to be out on that limb alone. All right. Please email us drsidebanks at gmail.com with what Joe's fursona and my fursona should be if you are so inclined. I would love to hear.

56:57Rob:Don't diagnose Kai. We've already done it. It's over. It's done. You'll have to wait for the reveal at the end of the season, but that's already a done deal. I would like to think about what I think your fursona is. I don't think it's clear to me. Though like, well, here's a question. Yeah. How often do you think furries, And again, we know nothing about this community, but like, how often do you think they're inclined to dress as like their pet? Like, would you dress as your dog in some way?

57:23Jo:I don't think so.

57:24Rob:Because it's too close to like a sexual experience and you don't want any of that near like...

57:29Jo:I wouldn't even think about that, Jo, but that's a compelling point as well.

57:32Rob:You're like your daughter. That is your pet.

57:36Jo:I was thinking more, it's like, it's such an individual choice of a projection of your personality that if you just like grab onto the image of your pet, that's a totally different being.

57:47Rob:But wouldn't you say your pet, Rob, is an extension of your personality? I don't think so.

57:53Jo:I think it's complimentary, right? Like you're clearly choosing something with the type of pet you have, like, you know, maybe the personality type of the dog or cat or I don't know, fucking snake or whatever you have, like whatever you're gravitating towards says something, but I don't think it necessarily says this is a mirror image of you.

58:11Rob:Can you remind me because I got I got it wrong recently. Can you remind me what breed of dog you have?

58:15Jo:I have a corgi.

58:16Rob:Okay, that's what I thought. Okay. So does Rob have corgi energy? And do I have black cat energy? Prestige TV at Spotify.com to let us know. Or alternatively, what you think our personas should be? Are we

58:28Jo:just doing this podcast instead of therapy? Is that what's happening? We're just like, tell us our whole deal, listeners, you know? Are we outsourcing too much? But we're also in therapy, so it's fine. It's true. I guess it all comes out in the watch.

58:42Rob:It's absolutely fine. What is watching emotional television like The Pit if not therapy? That's a question that I have for you, Rob. Are we just extending the experience? It's a wonderful point. But like when you watch The Pit, you're like encouraged to get emotionally attached and devastated and all these other things like that and to confront things about yourself. So I really think the pit in the first place is therapy. If our podcast about the pit is also therapy, what is that if not just like completing the assignment? And that is why you and I might've been the favorites of a teacher or two

59:14Jo:in high school or college. You know, I think we're really coming to all of the appropriate conclusions, inarguable evidence on all fronts.

59:22Rob:And that is why I might think that I was the favorite of a teacher in high school or college. All right, anything else you want to talk about that we haven't addressed?

59:31Jo:I think one last therapeutic note on our friend Samira Mohan, who has

59:36Rob:a young, vibrant woman.

59:38Jo:A young, vibrant woman who, look, this revelation comes to all of us at different times, that your mother is, in fact, an actual person with her own needs and desires. And in fact, you have your own. And I, you know, as a My Cousin Vinny guy myself. I very much appreciated her version of like the, my biological clock is ticking just like this to do.

1:00:01Rob:You have to do the Tomei accent. You can't.

1:00:04Jo:I'm not, I'm not qualified to do that. I would love to think the way that I can cancel this by doing the Marissa Tomei accent on this podcast.

1:00:12Rob:You can do a baby Jane Doe, the way that you did it, but you can't do my biological clock is ticking like this. you put your little dear lips down to the water.

1:00:24Jo:Baby Jane Doe is topical, right? Like it's within, you know, the fair use of this kind of IP. I can't just be dipping out of accents all willy-nilly.

1:00:33Rob:Samira's mother lives in New Jersey. Oh, damn it, you're right. Mona Lisa from, if not New Jersey. Anyway, listen, we've had a great time with the pit. Have we talked about this episode of television? Somewhat. Have we talked about other things? also true. Anything else you want to talk about before we go, Rob?

1:00:52Jo:Not a single thing.

1:00:53Rob:We talked about everything. We'll be back with more of The Pit next week, but no more industry. It's over. If you haven't watched it, it was an incredible season of television. I really suggest you watch it and then listen to all the podcasts we did with Jodi about it. Thank you to Kai Grady, who will someday soon be wearing a furry costume. Costume? Do you say that? Furry suit?

1:01:15Jo:That's insulting.

1:01:16Rob:I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Thank you to our listeners who got us amped and excited for the furry appearance. I've just like maybe never been more excited to see a fox head in my life. Thank you to Rob Mahoney. Thank you to Jenny Owen Young's for the living out with the pit jingle, which she put together in literally 10 minutes. We'll see you soon. Bye.

1:01:45you