The ‘Veronica Mars’ Episode That Got Us Hooked

28:29It's not all there yet, but the warmth is there.

28:32Joanna Robinson:I would say that his line in the pilot, which is, tonight we die in the lower middle class to which we aspire, is one of my favorite Veronica Mars lines. It's very good. I mean, the repetition of Who's Your Daddy is also very good. Honestly, every Keith Mars line is a banger and a winner. And his own arc throughout the course of the show in this season, as you said, a disgraced sheriff who's been run out of that job and run into all kinds of infamy as a result of trying to do his job and sometimes failing and sometimes succeeding, it could anchor its own show. And so it's always great to feel like with a show like Veronica Mars, it's like, yes, we are spending so much time at Neptune High, but there's this whole world of stuff happening in the background.

29:15And sometimes that world involves the police department. Sometimes it involves like high rise condominiums. Sometimes it involves, Joe, you and I are deep, neck deep in motorcycle gang culture lately and it's huge in veronica mars as well the pchers are

29:29Joanna Robinson:very important um in terms of like picking a scene that and a scene from this episode talking about how it embodies the show um i'm have to pick a veronica and logan scene just because of everything we said about that and something i wanted to add to that conversation is to say it's not just that tv itself can be a receptive medium it's not just a reactive medium it's not just that tv is a reactive medium especially inside of a 22 episode season but rob thomas himself in interviews has talked about how plugged in he was uh you know this comes out in 2005 um television without pity the uh very important tv recap and tv message board website genuinely really starts going 2002 and he talked about how he would read uh it religiously that he he was like uh in an interview i was watching he would say i was such a slut for it that i would read the message board reactions when the east coast uh when it would drop on the east coast so that by the time it aired here in california on the west coast uh i already knew how everyone felt about the episode um so this is this is someone who's just like in deep in television without pity culture this is a time when showrunners would just sort of like hop on the television without pity message boards yeah it was just like a real pivot point in terms of like the power of the fandom to directly interact with yes the creators and so i would say the logan and veronica stuff which comes out of not just something that the writers were observing but something that viewers were observing as well as undeniable thing dovetails into what we get in this episode is we get veronica and logan on a case there's like you know fun banter with them and the police station logan loses his temper that's very iconic and classic but i would say again when this is the bum fight guy you know like his temperament is what it is when he comes back between sort of between uh we're on the job scenes there's a he comes into mars investigation yes sort of a little contrite for losing his temper but he comes in swinging with sort of like an stg joke um says he avoids buildings with stained glass they banter about tabloids um you know she's like he's like this is what i'm paying for she's like i didn't know i didn't realize you were paying for this right and he says i mean we're not exchanging friendship bracelets and she says i'll stop braiding right so they're on this like tentative edge of something yeah but it's just like constant back and forth between these characters um that is very like Buffy Vampire Slayer Whedon-esque in its nature.

32:19Joanna Robinson:But I think that sort of tentative, what are we? Are we friends? Or is this just a job? And the fact that he's trying to figure out what happened to his mom, his mom has allegedly killed herself by jumping off a bridge. And he says, no way, that can't be true. Meanwhile, another side plot of this very busy season of television is veronica mars trying to figure out what's going on with her mom and so it's just like a very it's a it's a they gave logan a story that would be a key inside of veronica mars uh sympathies despite all the shit that he does at the beginning of this season and it works really really well here for her and for us you know i i think a lot of it too like you know logan may not like a stained glass window but the stained glass of mars investigations the like dancing lights off of the pool outside of veronica and keith's apartment that kind of pour in through the windows like there's these are they have to reuse the same locations over and over and over neptune high gets a ton of play mars investigations gets a ton of play and yet you bring it some life for scenes like that with the way you dress it up and just by just by being a little bit inventive with those sorts of trappings i think veronica mars does that consistently all across the board it's like how do we take something very worn in and familiar how do we take this like asshole guy like very sharp teenage girl how do we make that pairing feel different and new now the actors are bringing all that chemistry that as you mentioned was undeniable and irrepressible but there's also just the way that they're deployed in the show and i think a lot of that comes through here in terms of putting logan through the paces emotionally of having to confront his mother's potential suicide over and over and over with every new shred of evidence that is saying maybe she did in fact commit suicide and like seeing that version of that guy who in the actual pilot is mocking Veronica for her own mother's alcoholism be worn down by the process is just like that is what you make TV for like for those sorts of like slow like pounding the rock gradations of change like that's what it's all about that's what long-form storytelling is about absolutely um I do want to mention really quickly we haven't mentioned he's barely in this episode but Weevil a very important you mentioned the biker gangs i just want to say his line in this episode when logan he almost stole he almost won the who won the episode with this one line he lose a puka shell when logan storms out of the cafe is just like a top tier look he lose a puka shell is a top tier commentary on this character you were either there to understand the puka shells or you weren't and And if you're too young to understand the, I say, literal chokehold that the puka shells had on people, I don't pity you.

35:05You're better off.

35:06Joanna Robinson:I would say specifically the Logan Eccles type. A real Logan Eccles. But honestly, a Duncan Cain type as well. Really, the whole milieu. All the O-9ers. Yeah. Do you have a scene that you want to nominate that you feel like sort of typifies the series? Yeah. I mean, if you're hitting Logan, Veronica, I got to hit Veronica and Keith. And for me, it is the ink splatter coming out of the cracked safe. Establishing Veronica and Keith as like, for one, Veronica is exactly the kind of person who would be smart enough to know because of everything her dad has taught her. Someone's going to write down the combination to basically anything somewhere within range of that thing.

35:45and Keith is smart enough to know that he taught her that and that she will look for it and has established this elaborate bid just as a means to teach her a lesson on something that she should already be picking up on and further kind of entrenching us in the fact that Veronica is so deeply wrong about Mr. Brooks like she has just been told all this information that should sway her she goes to the safe anyway trying to crack it trying to get inside uh this girl who has accuse Mr. Brooks's diary, instead gets, you know, just like ink splattered all over her and yet still wants to continue trading notes, still wants to try to prove Mr.

36:22Brooks innocent. And I think the fact that Veronica is that wrong and that irrepressible at the same time is part of what makes that character so great. And the fact that Keith just wants to like warn her, but also teach her a lesson with a bit. Great dad. Just great dadding.

36:37Joanna Robinson:Keith has got some great dadding and some not so great dadding i would say inside of this episode a thing that i'm missing in this episode is a scene where veronica really really reckons with how wrong she was and how she was unwilling to listen to like a young woman even though like carrie bishop is covering for susan knight and there's all these hoops and she does sort of she sort of apologizes to carrie bishop and carrie's like fat lot of good that does me now yes uh she sort of apologizes to susan knight a little bit while pressuring her to report on the case, blah, blah, blah. And when she sort of apologizes to Keith, which she doesn't really, he says, if I were in trouble, I would want you on my side.

37:17Which is just like a very gentle,

37:21Joanna Robinson:kind thing to say to your daughter who has been royally fucking up for many days in a row here. All right. I will say too, Leighton Meester, I think, is quite good in this episode. Oh, yeah. She's great. And all of this, again, pre-gossip girl. So we're not even coded except by just Leighton Meester's general disposition to read her as like, oh, this is like a, you know, again, pardon the just direct rip, but like kind of a gossipy bitch. But like plays this really cleanly, really straight in a way that turns out to be like quite sympathetic, obviously, given the circumstances. But I think it's like a pretty good guest starring performance from her as well.

37:57Joanna Robinson:I really agree. What is the most 2005 thing about this episode? I have so many candidates. Fuka shells aside. Yeah. There is a line about that there's a jungle tribe that worships Donald Trump's hair. That's a line in this episode. We're just going to throw that out there. Visually speaking, I do think for Veronica Mars overall, in terms of the way the show is shot, the very like washed out, blown out blue filter flashbacks, extremely early 2000s stuff that we just don't make TV like that anymore. Which we kind of OD on in the first episode. Oh, yeah. if you were to pick one color to represent veronica mars oh wow what color would you would you pick i'm trying to reach for it i don't what do you have i can't tell if i'm being influenced by the cw logo but i really do think it's that lime green which was like so distinctive of the era the color of my imac at the time yes uh it's the color of veronica has like stained glass on her bedroom window that is that lime green that lime green just like pops up all over the place um i will say the phones in general yep uh i was watching this episode and and someone came in while i was watching it and they were aware of veronica mars but they thought it was a more recent show until they like get out the sidekicks or whatever it is like somewhere halfway through the episode they're like oh my god when did this take place i also thought it was a more recent show until i looked into the dead expanse of time i was like whoa this has been a minute it's been a minute uh there's a weakest link reference uh in this episode and it's from somebody who's supposedly cool very cool again there's there's supposedly a kid rock reference and i will say for the last 10 minutes of the episode veronica chris and bell is wearing the world's skinniest scarf which is the kissing cousin to the puk shell necklace so uh that's that's what i would say is the most 2005 thing about this episode the fashion of veronica mars is what it is i'm glad that by this point in the season we have gotten away from the pilot era uh kristin bell haircut or veronica mars haircut which was not her best look uh they've settled into something but it is still inescapably mid-2000s there's still like a lot of chokers a lot of vests a lot of like weird plaid pants there's there's a lot happening a A lot of Argyle.

40:21A lot of Argyle.

40:23Joanna Robinson:The note I wrote about her haircut in the pilot is it looks like she had her haircut by an angry lawnmower that was listening to Dirty by Christina Aguilar. Dirty with a lot of R's in it. Okay. How does this episode set up the rest of the series? I mean, I just would say the Logan and Veronica of it all. Obviously, Veronica chasing down incorrect leads is just going to be a hallmark of her entire life. Carrie Bishop we should say comes not played by Leighton Meester comes back in the Veronica Mars movie as a Susan Knight so you know Carrie Bishop could have been a big deal like they wish they could have had Leighton Meester back a lot for Carrie Bishop so what else would you say it sets up for the rest of the series?

41:07I think it's just those key relationships mostly the early stages of Veronica Mars in season one are so much more driven by Veronica operating an individual case, chasing other leads, again, with other supporting cast members. The one person we haven't really talked about who is not represented here, just in much volume, is Wallace. He's in the episode, but not really in the episode. That's a shame as far as giving you a fair representation of what the show is and who Veronica's key cast members around her, what the actual ensemble looks like. But the core representations are all there. I would say not just Logan and Veronica, not just Veronica and Keith, Veronica and Neptune, and the broader high school ecosystem is obviously something really important to understand.

41:51I think this episode establishes that stuff as well as any of them do.

41:55Joanna Robinson:The other thing that I had forgotten, this episode ends with an Abel Kuntz button, where Veronica goes to visit this guy who's in jail for Lily Kane's murder. I forgot how hard they stepped on the hand of the lector gas with Abel Kuntz. It's to the point of even almost doing a Clarice Starling accent. accent yeah it's it's there's a lot happening in this show this is another thing though it's like if you are looking for television entertainments that are naturalistic in origin and make you feel like oh this is how real people talk this is not the show for you this is a show where an entire gaggle of high school girls know every word to don't stand so close to me i did write that down like it's just all those oh nine our girls know every every single word and that's like that's just what the show is and we're going to have like line by line references to the outsiders you know it's just like there's just gonna be things like that that happen and are really enjoyable and are kind of feeding into the feel of the show but look it's a gumshoe detective show more than it is a high school show and it has that sort of like brick superimposed trapping of genre on setting like the film brick that i think works so well here too wow just a couple weeks ago you referenced Looper on the Alien Earth podcast.

43:09Joanna Robinson:Now you're here with Brick. You're in your Rian Johnson, Joseph Gordon-Levitt era. There are worse things to be than a Rian Johnson shill. I'm happy to participate. I will say there's a Brothers Bloom reference coming up on our Prestige TV episode this weekend on the first episode of Task. So stay tuned for that. Okay. In terms of the pilot,

43:31Joanna Robinson:one thing we should reference. If you go ahead, if you're like, Rob and Joanna love the show, I'll watch the show. I've never watched it before. I'll go ahead and buy it a season of it on on the streaming platform of my choice well not just that i'm seeing you can buy season one on ebay for five dollars i bet you can get it for even cheaper than that to be honest with you and this is what we would advise because the dvd pilot is different from the pilot that streams online there is a cold open that i think is kind of crucial for setting the tone that was cut from the original airing and for and is it does not exist on the on the streaming uh version of the episode either so in discussing the pilot we should say the cold open that existed went on the version that you and i watched is veronica on a stakeout at the camelot motel yes uh she's talking about how she's never going to get married she's talking about how sleazy all these you know people are here having their hookups at the motel she's got her calculus uh book there on the car seat next to her long lens uh camera very cheeky but what rob thomas talked about is he was like i was making a high school show and the network said it has to start if it's a high school show it has to start at the high school so instead we get cut to the first scene after the credits um veronica rolling up to uh to the high school and she has a voice over where she's like some kids work at taco bell i'm a private detective so like everything that that cold open establishes with his context becomes like voice over uh you know so i'm just i'm advocating uh if you still own a dvd player hunt down the veronica mart dvds for a couple on eBay, you won't regret it.

45:15Joanna Robinson:I promise. The UPN executives were not doing us any favors in the battle against Pluck. You know, it's like, it's real tough when you set it up that way. But again, if you just show Veronica in action, even I can't believe you let Van infect your mind with his Pluck agenda. I really can't. I don't think, generally speaking, I have much more of an appetite for it than Van does, but this is a very real thing. Like, people are gonna have a somewhat allergic response to just the trappings and the setting of this show. and if you can get through that and I think one easy way to do it is show Veronica being something more than just an average teenager, all of a sudden now you're cooking with something.

45:51Now you're seeing her and I think also most crucially in terms of that cold open like somebody who can handle herself. She's a do-gooder sometimes, she's a troublemaker at other times but she's somebody who like you can understand her being thrown into some pretty extreme situations and she can kind of find her way out with the help of a dog and a taser. I will

46:10Joanna Robinson:say that the the way in which this pilot episode abuses the flashback and the voiceover yeah is quite extraordinary on rewatch again i do like this pilot there it is it very deftly weaves uh a logan plot a weevil plot a cliff plot uh you know all these things together and also a sheriff lamb plot like everything sort of like comes in together in the most satisfying little braid you ever did see and the pchers like everything wallace etc etc is all woven together in sort of like one triumphant knocking over the dominoes moment for veronica bars i will say i do think veronica would have an easier time in life if she didn't show up to things to gloat she does it a couple times on the pilot and i'm like you could just execute your little schemes without cheekily finger gunning at the people that you have uh have screwed over but who would she be if she did you're talking about a fundamentally different character you know like if if she's not there to say like this is my over the moon face like what show are we even watching um the tone of all of these voiceovers is essentially yep that's me that you wondered how i got here um and again And it's trying to tell us a lot about Veronica's best friend who was murdered, how her father lost his job, where her mother is, this sexual assault that happened to her.

47:43Joanna Robinson:It's just how her social status changed, all these various things. It's just trying to lift a lot in the pilot. It's a lot to try to take care of. I do have an incredible amount of admiration for that, like how much it is endeavoring to put forth in front of us. and you alluded to the characters, like even just establishing like Lamb, for example, pretty clearly in a very limited amount of screen time. Something that's very hard to do in a pilot, even an extended one. And so the fact that they're able to cover that much ground is great. I find the pilot to be the kind of episode that like, as I am watching it now, having seen Veronica Mars, I have a lot of affection for that pilot.

48:21And I'm like, man, I just love this show. But as putting myself in the shoes or the seat of a first time viewer, it's like, this is a lot that you're just kind of hurling at me and expecting me to not just like get my bearings, but understand kind of the plotting through lines of what this episode is about.

48:37Joanna Robinson:I think the only reason this worked in a way that it shouldn't be, because now if you show this episode, if you show this season to someone, let's say you don't get all the way to episode 14, but you're like, okay, hang with me for the pilot. Okay, now we got to get through a Paris Hilton episode. It's kind of like episode four is sort of like when you'd be like, okay, are you here with me? But like, I just think it's like the fact that they have Kristen Bell, who will later make a fortune just doing cheeky voiceover work in Gossip Girl is what saves the pilot from being an absolute train wreck.

49:14Joanna Robinson:because she reads the flashback, you know, even when it is something as devastating as the sexual assault at the party morning after scene with this just momentum that keeps you going. But it is, I think, a tough sell for people who have never experienced Veronica Mars. When I was watching a bunch of episodes to sort of prep for this, the person who wandered in and was like, oh, wow, those phones are sure are old sort of just like got hooked and sat down and was like sort of watching it and they were like okay i get it it's fun to watch her do her thing it is like that is veronica mars it is fun to watch her do her thing it's really good it and again to watch like within that kristin bell do her thing as as you're setting up with the voiceover like there there are just some performances and some shows where it's like holy shit the star power of this person that you know found might be a little extreme but like kristin bell was not holding down roles like this before Veronica Mars.

50:11It was very much like a put her in a slightly different light.

50:14Joanna Robinson:Her Deadwood guest star. I love her appearance on Deadwood and it plays into some of the sort of like ingenue appearance of naivety that she has like leveraged in almost every six, like all of her great roles since then. Like there is a way that Kristen Bell looks and plays against type that I think makes her so dynamic as a performer. But a lot of kind of her getting more serious dramatic role starts here. And I think what's so interesting about the way it has all unfolded is like, even though she and Logan had that chemistry, like the same has not been true for Jason Doring. Like he has not had the same kind of arc for her as her.

50:49Like even just like somebody who has kind of disappeared, accepting the Veronica Mars reboot, which he came back for.

50:55Joanna Robinson:I feel like it's been like a curse for him almost. I don't know. um i will say in terms of like iconic moments in this pilot your marshmallow veronica mars is what the fandom eventually is called marshmallows like that's eventually what the veronica mars fandom so that comes from this obviously the keith mars tonight we died like the lower middle class to which we aspire is from this episode very important and you mentioned the outsiders that be cool soda pop line which she says to wallace after he mentions the outsiders i think i thought that was an outsider's line i say that all the time is that not an outsider's i'm not gonna i also thought it was just a straight up outsider's line soda pop is a character from the outsiders but if you google be cool soda pop you will get veronica bars it's not from the outsiders but i say that all the time if like uh if like a a dog is sort of like being antsy whatever i'll be like be cool soda pop like it's just a thing that i say that i got from veronica mars that i thought i got from the outsiders uh for a long time so that's the way in which uh pop culture referential writer's rooms will screw you sometimes you know especially with stuff like i mean veronica mars is so good at it in terms of the little turns of phrase that just worm their way into your brain and never quite leave you.

52:16And it's like, there are funny shows that are well-written shows that are really dynamic and interesting shows that just don't have that kind of stick. It's you remember the character, you remember the plot line, maybe you remember like your emotional reaction to a thing. But this is just one of those shows where the writing alone will become like a part of your life as you watch it.

52:33Joanna Robinson:Yeah. Anything else you want to say about the pilot before we get into sort of like deep, dark, scary spoiler territory? I think we covered most of it. I mean, we haven't covered this part specifically, but the opening theme, the Dandy Warhols, lights out from minute one. Just like, okay, we got it. You know, there's so – I feel like I've been subject to a lot of really shitty opening themes. We're just like really like thoughtless. Like, okay, here's a placeholder that we never quite got around to putting something else in for. This is perfect. It's so good. It introduced me to the Dandy Warhols, which is a great band.

53:09Joanna Robinson:What a gift. and they show up in a later episode right i believe so there's like a karaoke night where chris bell sings again in in the buffy vein it's just like you just gotta have the band on it yeah just have the yeah just invite nerf herder to come on anyway um yes which i think you don't get the theme song uh in the pilot so that's another way in which it is really uh missing something here. Anything else you want to say? I think we covered it. I think the pilot overall still a worthy enough place to start. But as I said, I've had trouble just getting people to watch this show. And if the way to do it is by hooking Adam Scott or a guest star on and putting people in through the side door, so be it.

53:51Let's do it.

53:52Joanna Robinson:Clever. Very clever. All right. I want to get into the big time spoiler section because it helps make our point in a way that I feel disinclined to spoil people on. So this is your warning. We're very serious about this warning. If you have not seen this show and you're not convinced yet, one, you're wrong. You, like Veronica, are thinking you're interpreting the evidence here and you are interpreting incorrectly. I need you to leave and think about what you've done and reconsider your life choices. Hopefully watch Veronica Mars, but at minimum, if you've not seen Veronica Mars, don't listen to this section.

54:22Joanna Robinson:We will be back on Sunday with Bill to cover the first episode of Task, a new HBO series that absolutely rules So please come back and listen to that. And we'll be back with another hooked episode on Lost next week, which I'm really excited about. So that's a little like tease. Come back, please. Before we get into the spoilers to really give everyone time to dry the like soapy water off your hands and press stop or pause or whatever you need to do on here. Okay. In season four, Veronica Mars. You've shown a lot of a lot of restraint. Thank you. I'm not as twisted up about this as other people are.

54:59Joanna Robinson:Because, I don't know, when a reboot happens, I'm just sort of like, well, any extra time is extra time. And that is what it is. At the end of the eight episodes of the fourth season of Veronica Mars, Veronica and Logan get married. And then that same day, he gets blown up and is killed. Yep. And the fandom was so mad about this. the fandom that like sparked back to life with the kickstarter for the movie absolutely just like was really living i actually didn't really love that movie i felt like it was too fan servicey and very product placement it's not very effective no i don't think it's great but um i do think that they did some great some good stuff i think with season four and i think the idea of wanting to return to veronica as an adult um having you know lived you know through the things that she's lived through was a good idea.

55:50Joanna Robinson:Kristen Bell was interested in living in the world of this character. They killed Logan. I understand why. Yep. Because, again, that relationship just sort of swallowed the show. You could not give Veronica another love interest because, you know, our guy Piz can really attest to that. Like, everyone will hate. You're telling me off mic, Joe, that you thought Piz was like the one true pairing for Veronica. Don't try to entrap me. in your lives rob mahoney i'm just saying you mentioned before piz chris lowell a real champ showed up for the movie is great it's kind of great in the movie um like you can't put veronica with anyone else am i misremembering is he working at this american life yes he is i think ira glass is in it yeah is in the movie yeah that sounds right for piz i think um i just i understand that they felt like they had written themselves into a corner.

56:47Joanna Robinson:I just have never seen a fandom turn on a creator. They were so mad. I mean, end of Game of Thrones, maybe comp, honestly, inside of this fandom. I have never seen anyone as mad as the Veronica Mars fan was that Logan Echols was killed off at the end of season four. And then they had planned to make more seasons and they just didn't because the hue and cry was so loud. And genuinely, I was just trying to Google, like get interviews of Rob Thomas from season one. And I was putting in all these parameters in my search term and all i could get i mean first of all google's kind of broken because ai is stupid and wrong but also just like i the the absolute avalanche of articles and interviews about this pop culture event that i was like wow i knew people were mad i just didn't know it was this deep and also on like the i was like you know put around the veronica mars reddit boards and a bunch of people are like the phantom just died after they did this and i was i mean it's stunning so it just really underlines the argument that you were making that the logan and veronica relationship which gets starts to get its legs under it inside of mars v mars is the show it kind of is the show that said those people were big mad about logan dying in season four I was big mad at them being big mad because I really like season four and I really like the idea of a clean slate Veronica moving like poker face but making Veronica Mars that's what I was hoping for oh my god like the potential for that with this character I think would have been incredible and I I for one I this is this is my thing about TV I love the reactionary elements that we've talked about where you can shape and guide a show depending on what's working and what's not there's also this fact that like things are of their time and some things you have to just like let go of and it's going to be disruptive it's going to be controversial but like sometimes you have to kill off really beloved characters and i think having actual stakes and repercussions for the shit that veronica is getting into is what makes this show good the fact that some days she's going to show up to a biker bar and it's like holy shit this is dangerous not just like a girl playing at detective is what made the show good and so the fact that there are actual costs I was here for that I mean I'm not saying like the show did that I think quite well in season 2 because I loved the character Beaver and I was absolutely devastated personally devastated at the ending of season 2 so like the show has done it before and I agree like I was actually kind of defensive of the choice in terms of if they want this story to continue and they want Veronica to sort of like be free to do other things and to move and shake and not be in the same cycle of the same relationship.

59:32Joanna Robinson:They had to do it. And I, yeah. Anyway, Jason Doering deserves the world. He's so good. I think Rob Thomas should just create a show for Jason Doering that is just like, which is just like, just make it basically Logan. Just don't even try. It's fine. Just have him play basically Logan. We're all cool with it. We'd be really into it. So he deserves as much as Kristen Bell does a career, I think. So, yeah. I do think these shows and these characters do also struggle with something, which is when you have the bad boy, bleached blonde hair, asshole character that we've been talking about all episode.

1:00:14When you do make him into the like good boyfriend, there is a little bit of a plot vacuum of like, well, now if he's not starting bum fights, what do we have this guy do? And some of the solution for that for season four is, oh, we kind of dial up some of Veronica's mess even more. And then he can be the sort of stabilizing contrast piece. But then that's getting away from some of the edge that people like in Logan in the first place. And so there's kind of a no-win situation that develops with characters like that.

1:00:40Joanna Robinson:Which they address in a meta way in season four in that episode where he's like, he punches a hole in the pantry. And then they have rough sex. And he's like, is this what you missed? This guy? And she's like, yeah, it was great. He's like, I'm going to therapy, man. It is, in fact, what they and she missed. I have been going to therapy. And she's like, I'm not interested. So, yeah, it's a no-win situation. But when it was good, it was very good. And when it was good, it was season one. I would say season one, season two. Season one, perfect. Season two, really good. Season three, to me, mixed bag.

1:01:14Joanna Robinson:But, you know. I could be talked into season two being even better. I think some of the highs might be even higher. One overall might hang together a little more. Veronica Mars also has that thing where it's like the longer you go into it, the more certain events are almost like retconned into complications that make it hard to even remember. Like, wait, who was it that did what? Was it this person who left the room then? And this person like there's a lot happening that you need to keep track of. And it keeps deepening and changing over time. It makes it hard to kind of separate one season from another, too.

1:01:42Joanna Robinson:I think the mystery of season one, Who Killed Lily Kane, is so good. And I think the Aaron Eccles reveal is so good that it's hard to top in season two with Steve Goodenberg, with love and respect to Steve Goodenberg. I love Steve Goodenberg. Good's great. While we're in the broader Rob Thomas universe, the Steve Goodenberg episode of Party Down is just one of the greatest episodes of TV that's ever been made. Absolutely rock solid. Very good. All right. So this has been another hooked episode. We suggest you watch Party Down. We suggest you watch Veronica Bars. Definitely. We suggest you watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

1:02:16Joanna Robinson:Of course. You should watch all the things that are very important to us because our taste is perfect. We will be back, as I mentioned, with the first episode of Task and also Rob's introduction to the television series Lost. I can't wait. I cannot believe I get to talk to you about the first two episodes. We're going to be doing the two-part pilot of Lost is what we're doing. I'm feeling a lot of pressure, Joe. No. Just as somebody who obviously Lost means a great deal to you, I am now on the other end of the like recommending Veronica Mars chain. I'm really confident. I'm really confident, Rob, that you're going to enjoy the pilot of loss.

1:02:53I hope you're right.

1:02:55Joanna Robinson:And then we've got two more shows that we plan to do after that. And then that wraps up our first arc of the of of Hooked because task will be going. So horses is coming. We've got a lot. I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. the final season of fx is the bear the restaurant is flooded everything's either going to be okay or not we are outgunned and we are outmanned but we have each other fx is the bear the final season all episodes now streaming on disney plus coming this fall so uh We will see you soon. Press TV at Spotify.com. If you, if you have any Veronica Mars thoughts, Oh, I would love to hear them.

1:03:42Joanna Robinson:If you have any Logan Eccles thoughts, if you have any lost thoughts for Rob, no spoilers on those, please. No, no, no, of course not. And we will see you soon. Bye.