‘The West Wing’ Hall of Fame: “Two Cathedrals”

21:15Joanna Robinson:And most good workplace shows are family shows. But this idea that something that Sorkin likes to say is you could be alone in a big city if you've got family at work, basically. Right. So like this idea that Mrs. Lanningham, who positions herself as Jed's older sister in a flashback, but is also like motherly to him in a way where he is like in a position where he's really against God, but also his dad has some issues like going on and stuff like that. But the way that Aaron Sorkin character with daddy issues, don't I mean, where would it even come from? Never heard of it. Certainly not involved in our next show that we're going to talk about as well.

21:53Joanna Robinson:When Jez says, I need pallbearers, and the pallbearers are men in this office, that that is the family that is here because Mrs. Leningham's entire family has been wiped away is very, very meaningful. And this idea of like, the West Wing always has this great cadence of like, what's next, right? What's next? What's going on? What is Toby wrangling in this office while CJ's doing this in this office and Josh and Dawn are arguing about this over in the hallway? And there are those moments inside this episode, but then constantly in the background of Jed's mind is I need pallbearers. There's this funeral happening.

22:33Joanna Robinson:There's this loss that's hounding me. and I think that's done really subtly and really beautifully inside of this beautiful episode. For sure. I mean, they're juggling huge personal loss and huge geopolitical stakes within the same episode and this is why of all the frameworks that Sorkin has explored, the West Wing works best for him is because it feels the least ridiculous to approach the day-to-day with the level of pomposity we've been talking about and ambition and ego. All that stuff feels natural when it's like the structure of his shows are about people who take their work very, very seriously.

23:10And when the work is actually inarguably quite serious, it just kind of lends itself to the format.

23:15Joanna Robinson:So as a sportsman, you're saying covering sports on a television show isn't as important as running the White House, Rob Mahoney? See, I actually think Sports Night works quite well even still. And some of that is because sports lend themselves to mythology. And this is why the newsroom doesn't work because it's like the active real-time writing of myth as opposed to regarding a politician who was shot or a current event. It just doesn't work. It's just like our relationship to those things is totally different than a long-distance runner who's 45 years old and breaking a record and you're on a SportsCenter knockoff commentating about how incredible and historic and inspirational this is.

23:58There's just a different tone that fits his writing better.

24:01Joanna Robinson:There is... Also, unfortunately, there's aspects of the newsroom I actually really quite like, but there is unfortunately, Sportsline is so scrappy and ultimately kind of a failed in its own way experiment for Aaron Sorkin, but a show that I really, really love. but it got canceled before he wanted it to West Wing is the peak of his work and then the newsroom is this sort of defiantly high on his own supply sort of era of Sorkin that again works sometimes and then when it doesn't, it doesn't and to go back to this idea of to your point there's so much stuffing in the turkey here The scene where an imagined version of Mrs.

24:49Joanna Robinson:Laningham comes into the room to talk to Jed after the metaphorical storm has been blowing the door open all episode. And they have this conversation. There is a similar scene in the newsroom that I despise. And so it can so easily go wrong. I usually roll my head. When that happened on the newsroom, I was like, oh, it's Ghost Dad. Ghost Dad bothers me every time. And Ghost Dad will show up again and again on shows. It's not a Sorkin problem. It's a TV problem. This feels so different. Why do you think it feels so different in this episode? I wish I could put my finger on it. Again, it's such a finely calibrated measure of like eight different variables.

25:41And some of it is just like you have Martin Sheen, right? Like you just have him in the chair and he could be talking to nobody. He could be talking to a ghost, an actual ghost of Mrs. Lanningham, which as you said, it is not. It could be another actually alive character and just anything he delivers in that cadence as President Bartlett is going to be pretty compelling stuff. Like that is a character who can hold the screen and an actor who no question can hold the screen. So if you have that as kind of your foundational point, then I think you just have a little bit more wiggle room to work with.

26:10And he also sells the big and broad stuff so, so well. Like he's the reason why the store metaphor works because you have him standing in the rain. And I could just watch Martin Sheen standing in the rain, looking off into the middle distance, and I would be captivated by it.

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28:57Joanna Robinson:One of the categories that we have been doing on these Hall of Fame episodes, not consistently, but here and there, is needle drop. I actually don't know if I have one for the next one we're going to do, but there is only one answer here. It's an absolutely iconic musical moment inside of television history. How do you feel about Dire Straits in general and Dire Straits' teesage here? Yeah. I have no real relationship to Dire Straits. other than if you play this song, I will get goosebumps because of this show. Yeah, this is a television moment that forever changed a lot of people's association.

29:36Joanna Robinson:We should say, in terms of ratings, this got 20 million people were watching this episode, which is just absolutely bananas, does not exist anymore. Network television, notwithstanding, this just doesn't happen. And so for, like, you know, a good portion of those 20 million people, not to mention all the people who have watched the West Wing since, Brothers in Arms, the Dire Straits song, forever invokes this television moment. This, the grand walk, no talk that the Bartlett administration does over to the press conference and up onto the stage. The American flag blowing in the wind outside behind them and it works.

30:20Joanna Robinson:like all of it works this is what we're doing how does it happen so you know if that doesn't move you I don't even want to know you you know like it just it has to affect you in some way and this is one of those areas where in terms of the soundtrack and the score of the West Wing very rarely do you get any of these sorts of needle drops like it's just not that kind of show it is very much like a snuffy Walden joint through and through like that is what's going on so if you hear an electric guitar on the West Wing you're like okay some shit's about to go down you know Something is really happening and moving here, and to incorporate it with a song that literally opens with its own storm sound effect, and to just kind of layer that in with your actual booming tropical storm that's moving through D.C.

31:03out of season, unusually, in a way that just like President Bartlett cannot stop thinking about. The whole thing just works through and through, again, in ways that it probably shouldn't and probably wouldn't on basically any other show.

31:14Joanna Robinson:I think that's true. do you think I don't I did not watch West Wing in real time I might have caught up with it before it ended but definitely like sort of a couple seasons and I started watching like reruns were happening over the summer or something like that that's how I caught up on the West Wing but like do you think it takes any of the tension out of this episode that anyone watching West Wing now knows that probably knows that Tim Matheson is not the president, like Hoynes is not the president going forward on the show that Bartlett's not only going to run, but he is going to win. Like, does that, do you think that matters at all in watching this episode?

31:56Joanna Robinson:Because like, what's cool about this? I mean, you know he's going to run because he does the hands in his pocket, looks aside, smiles thing. But it's kind of fun to remember that they didn't explicitly say it and that you have that as like, not really a cliffhanger, but kind of cliffhanger over the entire summer. Which seems like a long time until you remember now that we have like three years between things and you probably couldn't get away with this anymore. But like, but like, I don't know, there's, there's, there's tension throughout the episode. Is he, you know, he's like, you get hoins to God, like, fuck you, I'm not going to do it.

32:28Joanna Robinson:And then he decides to do it. But like, if you already know that Bartlett's going to be Bartlett for many seasons afterwards, does, does that impact it at all? It doesn't have to. I was just curious. Yeah, I think it probably does not impact it. And I say this very anecdotally as someone who has seen this episode, I don't know, 20 times. And I still feel it. You have a physical feeling watching a dramatic layout like this, where it is hitting the beats. It is hitting the musical cues. You're just so on that razor's edge of trying to understand who is this man if he is the broken down, faith-disavowing version of the person that we've come to know and understand.

33:08And so that variable, even if I know exactly how season three starts, which spoiler alert, it's with a weird 9-11 classroom allegory.

33:16Joanna Robinson:I let it roll as I do sometimes with these Hall of Fame episodes. I was like, okay, let's watch the next episode. And I was like, what's happening? And I had to remind myself that there's this weird interstitial sort of episode. Isaac and Ishmael, not canon. Not recognized officially. We're just going to keep moving. But I think even if you know what happens, even if you've seen the show before, there is just something about the magic of this, the space of this episode where you feel everything so acutely and everything is so heightened that I think it pulls you into that moment of like, even though I know part of my brain is tricked by this.

33:50Joanna Robinson:I love that. Do you have a favorite character who's not Jed Bartlett on the show? Is there a single person that you're like, this is my guy? This is so hard. I mean, I think there is a favorite Beatle thing that happens, at least for me, where I kind of bounce back and forth. I feel like I am in a Toby place of my life. Are you? Yeah. I think we all have a Josh Lyman phase of a kind. I think Josh Lyman is probably the Paul if I had to equate them. Yeah, the obvious answer. And what would you say Toby is the... He's the George. There's no doubt. Well, you're a George guy, so yeah, that would be the answer.

34:24I'm a rising George, rising Toby. But how could the writer in us not be moved by Sam Seaborn? And how could the person who wants to have the command of a room or hypothetically a podcast not be channeling their CJ Craig in some way? I actually think my answer is Leo McGarry.

34:44Joanna Robinson:I mean, Leo's fucking great. I actually think John Spencer is my guy. And that certainly wasn't always the case. I think I went through a very long Josh Lyman phase, of course. Sure. But yeah, I think it's John Spencer. You were posting on LemonLyman.com with the rest of us, as we know. With alacrity. One of the questions we ask ourselves in this episode is like best performance. And like Martin Sheen seems like the obvious answer, but there's something about John Spencer in this episode. He opens the episode with this idea like there's going to be a press conference tonight. You're going to want to watch it.

35:17Joanna Robinson:So there's like a ticking clock, as you said, on this episode. Like we're headed towards a press conference where a big decision will be made. and the staff doesn't even know what the answer is going to be. They're going back and forth, as you said. And Leo, though there are moves inside of this episode, like the move he pulls with Toby and stuff like that, where it seems like Leo knows that Jed is going to, he feels so certain. But when Leo says, watch this, that is the part that actually made me choke up, watching it, re-watching it this time. It's just like Leo's relationship with Jed, complicated as it is, is so beautiful.

36:00Joanna Robinson:I don't know. In terms of you talking about sports narratives being mythology sort of writing itself in real time or the history of America is being written, the fictional history of America is being written. And this idea of, you know, what is the chief of staff to the boy king who becomes, you know, the king of America? Like, what is that figure? What does that guiding hand mean? What does that level of faith in you mean? Especially in a context where, as we go into the following episodes, Abby is not that person. So when your spouse is not that person, Leo as his work wife, essentially, has to sort of stand in for that.

36:47Joanna Robinson:And I just think that relationship is really profound to me. So, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think there's two really fundamental things happening with Leo in this episode. One is what you're saying, which is there's just a read of the West Wing in its bulk that is like a Leo and Jed love story, basically. This is a long-lasting relationship and partnership between these two guys who understand each other so well. And part of that, watch this, is the like, I know this guy better than anyone in this room, and you're going to want to pay attention for this moment. And then there's also the grizzled political operator who has seen everything and knows when something special is about to happen.

37:22It's like that intersection of, this is the moment where everything comes to a head, and we all feel it. To hear Leo say it is really the punctuation.

37:30Joanna Robinson:He's like, can you hear the dire straits play? Do you see the flag flapping? History is about to be written here. Who would you say your best performance in the episode is? I think it has to be Martin Sheen. And this is your ongoing reminder that Martin Sheen never won an Emmy for the West Wing. I mean, just tough fields. I get it. But like, he's so great here in particular and the show and the episode of Ride on Him. Bartlett in a place of like pure rage, scolding God, the ultimate walk and talk with God in the National Cathedral. I don't say this term like epic television. That is must-see stuff.

38:07Joanna Robinson:I don't know if this is apocryphal, but I read some stories that they got banned from the National Cathedral because of the cigarette moment inside of this episode. Or maybe the cursing out God part of it. I don't know. I believe this is the reason why, like, I'll omit the spoiler, but when a future character dies in the West Wing, they don't return to the National Cathedral for the funeral. So I think there's some truth to it, or at least some truth of convenience for sure. I will say, Joe, on the performance front, though, like, this episode does not work without Kirsten Nelson. That was my runner-up as well.

38:38Yeah, young Dolores Landingham, like, so impeccably cast.

38:42Joanna Robinson:Yeah. Love her. I'm a huge, like, comfort watch psych person, so I'm a Kirsten Nelson fan, but, like, her impression that's not an impression, it's an embodied performance is so good, and she is responsible for keeping the importance of Mrs. Landingham alive throughout the episode until we get, not a ghost, the apparition of Mrs. Lanningham at the end of the episode, but to have her so embody the sharpness of that character and to be able to see with your own eyes how long that person has been in Jed's life and what it means to lose that person who believed you could make meaningful change, even though he fails her inside of that flashback for as long as she did is it's just so interesting because like I was I was I was re-listening to the the West Wing Weekly episode about this uh episode where uh you know Aaron Sorkin's on uh giving an interview Kirsten Nelson's on giving an interview like it's great stuff uh they did a two-parter they also had Lawrence O'Donnell I didn't listen to the one with Lawrence O'Donnell but Lawrence O'Donnell did senior senior Bartlett himself Lawrence O'Donnell um really weird casting It works.

39:56I mean, he's stern in a way he needs to be stern.

39:59Joanna Robinson:Something I love about Rishi, who's a friend of mine and the co-host of that show, is how unabashedly and optimistically he loves the West Wing. And I'm just a much more cynical person than him, and I love that both of those takes exist. But he was talking about Jed talking to the operation of misleading him about he's just thinking of other people. and I was like that is such a beautiful way to frame it and it is on the one hand true but on the other hand like this is a man so certain that no one but himself could do this job yes and that egotism is also really important to me as part of of that character so it is like without a doubt it's altruism and it's egoism like together and I just I like the way those flavors you know coalesce inside the show He needs the egoism.

40:54He needs the altruism, which isn't just in him, but is kind of fanned by a lifetime with Dolores Lanningham. Like, you're seeing her kind of stoke that in him. And he also needs, like, the weird underdog chip on your shoulder, like, fight. Like, that's a huge part of President Bartlett as well. And part of what brings him to that press conference, it's fuck you, dad. It's fuck you, God. It's fuck you, any, like, fuck you, Toby, based on the previous episode. It's like anyone who doubted me, I'm going to prove that I can and will do this and that I'm the only person that should do this.

41:25Joanna Robinson:Watch this. Watch this. Most iconic image slash shot composition. I don't think there's a lot of competition, is there? What's your answer? I think there's two options. I think specifically Jed stepping on the cigarette in the National Cathedral. But really, Annie, just showing the cathedral and the scale of it is part of what sets the stage for this whole thing. and certainly that particular monologue, confrontation, however you want to describe it. I think if you show that image, Jed Bartlett alone in a cathedral.

42:00Joanna Robinson:But we've already talked about it, but I will say the American flag waving out of the window as the storm rages. Yeah. Like, I think you have to work really hard to not make that look cheesy. And it's true. And it works. So I think yours is the right answer, but I think that flag waving is really interesting. Favorite under-recognized detail of this episode, Rob? Look, depending on your familiarity with the West Wing, it may or may not surprise you that this is not the only time President Bartlett or any character just starts speaking in Latin as a matter of course in the episode. But if you're not in the weeds of this shit, I think part of the important distinction is basically every other time that Jeb Bartlett speaks Latin, it's in this very professorial way.

42:45It's in like, he's trying to explain something to Josh or Toby or Sam or CJ from his point of view, from within his faith, just like an elder passing along wisdom. And the fact that he turns it here, that he's so heartbroken that he turns it to not just talk to God, but mock God effectively. I think it's one of those really stunning character details that even if you don't have that background, you kind of feel it, even though you don't fully realize it.

43:13Joanna Robinson:Mock God, curse God out in a way that you can put on primetime television, etc. Definitely. For me, and I never noticed it before, but there's a couple different moments where the camera just lingers on Mrs. Laningham's empty desk. Like following characters around, but then it'll just sort of like stop and just show you her desk empty for a beat or two longer than it normally would. And I thought that was really. And Jed can't even look at it. He like keeps moving past it like as quickly as possible. Yeah. Okay, best moment scene. I think this is also just has to be Jed yelling at God. I don't know what else it could be.

43:50Joanna Robinson:Do you have something else? See, I actually think it's the ending. Okay. I think it's the press conference. I think it's the dire straits buildup to the press conference and the hold your breath season ending moment. Like, look, ultimately, like these episodes are really, this run of episodes, but this one in particular, is just like the most revealing part of the West Wing when it comes to character. When it comes to Jed Barlet, we are laying out who this guy is and what he is made of. And he's put through a lot in Two Cathedrals. He's isolated. He's being kind of stripped down of the protection of his office in some ways, of the pageantry of his office.

44:29He is just a guy who's having to make a hard choice while dealing with this other really painful thing. And I think getting him to the point where he goes through all that and he curses God and he has the show, he has the show down and he has his moment in the office during the storm, getting him to the point where he can walk in there and put his hands in his pockets and smile, look to the side. Like, that is one of the most satisfying renderings of any character in my television life. And so it's like, and it doesn't feel like a cheat or a shortcut. Like, it feels, this whole episode really feels like payoff, payoff, payoff, payoff.

45:05And it is seeding stuff and bringing it back and it feels insular within the episode. But it's also like, this is two years of President Jed Barlett getting to this point. And when he gets there, it's hard to argue that that is the moment.

45:17Joanna Robinson:There's a question I wanted to ask about both this and then the next episode we're going to talk about, which is, does this episode work out of context? Sort of like in that vein where we did the Hooked series earlier this year on this feed, where we talked about sort of episodes, if they aren't the pilot, what you would show someone to tell them about what this show is, right? the end of season two of 22 episodes of Caesar's show is way too far in. It's pretty deep. This would never be the hooked episode. I might talk about a hooked episode actually in a second. But could you show someone this episode without them having the lead up of knowing who Mrs.

45:54Joanna Robinson:Lanning is or knowing about the build up of the MS storyline or anything like that? Like, is this, it doesn't have to be, but I'm just curious if this is an episode you feel like you could show out of context to someone. I think it would be legibly very good, but maybe not legibly great. Yeah. And you need the 40-something episodes of background to really feel everything that you need to feel in an episode like this. But at the same time, the execution of it, the pacing of it, the structure of it, that's all very recognizable, even if you have no idea who any of these people are. Is The West Wing a show that you would put on?

46:29Joanna Robinson:Is this a show that you put on just... Because I know you have shows like this. Is this a show that you just put on like, I want to feel comforted or I want to feel uplifted. Is this like a frequent... You said you watched this episode dozens of times. When do you rewatch The West Wing? It's definitely more comfort than uplift. I'm not looking to be roused into political affirmation by The West Wing. I'm like, this is a drama and most importantly, a group of characters that are so pleasant to spend time with and wonderful to spend time with. And that's while they're fucking up. It's while they're sometimes doing very dumb things or self-centered things or egotistical things or whatever it is, but this is in that zone of show for me where it's such an easy comfort watch and a very easy trap of like, I'm going to put on season one, episode 12, and then all of a sudden I'm on season six because I've just run through the whole thing.

47:23Joanna Robinson:Rob, who watched all of Lost over the course of like, I don't know, one month. It's a slippery slope. That's what I'm saying. I feel this way about most of the shows we did for the Hook series and I feel this way about this show, both this show, the next one we're going to talk about, I couldn't just stop at one. It's like a, it's like a Pringle. Like I couldn't just stop at one episode. I wanted to watch, I watched like the next three essentially. Cause there's like the interstitial one. And then there's like the two part premiere. I watched all through that. And I was just sort of like, Oh, I could do this.

47:50Joanna Robinson:I could just keep going. Honestly, why not? What would be the runner up episode? If it were not this episode, if you were making this list. Yeah. Um, and again, I salute our colleagues. They had a really hard job of putting this list together. So I'm not But if you were to put this list and you're not picking two cathedrals, which West Wing episode are you picking? So this is where I operate somewhat in defiance of my earlier claim that there's, I mean, there are many great season two episodes and I want to talk about one in a second. But if I had to pick one or really I'm going to cheat and pick two, it's 20 Hours in America, which is the two part season four premiere.

48:26It is a two part of like has everything. It is, so Josh and Toby and Donna are out in Iowa, kind of out of their element. It's great. Exposing their hypocrisies a little bit. It's a really good election episode or re-election episode. It's a great issues-driven episode. It has guest star Amy Adams out of absolutely nowhere. And also, for my money, it has like the single best bit of Sorkin's speechifying in the entire series, which is Jed Barlett's The Streets of Heaven Are Too Crowded With Angels speech after there's like a bomb that goes off at a school. And so it hits like literally everything that the West Wing is at such a high level.

49:03If you can like cheat and pick a two-parter, I think that would be my pick.

49:09Joanna Robinson:I think sort of like a clear frontrunner for second place is in a Chelsea's dayo which I think a lot of people think of as like the hooked episode perhaps of West Wing this is a season one episode this is a Toby centric episode your guy Toby the George Harrison of the West Wing and this is just an episode that stands out in the history of West Wing as maybe the first time the show really demonstrated how high it could reach. So that's, and then in the shadow of two gunmen is like an absolute classic episode. Two-parter, again, a cheat, but you know. Sometimes you got to smuggle them. And I also, like, while we're talking Toby episodes too, I do think 17 people, which is season two, episode 18, the episode where Toby finds out about President Bartlett's MS.

50:04and really is like the one to challenge him about it. Like this, as you can tell from Two Cathedrals, like the show can be quite forgiving and understanding of President Barlett, but like this is a dude who lied to the entire American public about his health for eight straight years. And Toby is really the only one who's like, isn't this kind of fucked up? And like shouting at President Barlett in the Oval Office, a remarkable piece of television and really one of the best like behind closed doors debating and arguing, which is the crux of what the West Wing is. That's that version at its best.

50:37Joanna Robinson:I love that. Anything else? Any other episodes you want to shout out? I think those are the definitive ones for me. There's many other great ones, but again, it's like, I love somebody's going to emergency, somebody's going to jail, which is a very Sam Seaborn off on a quest episode. But it's like, sometimes those feel a little too much like side missions. It's like we're spending a lot of time with one of the core senior staff, but not enough time with everybody else to see what they've got going on. Do you have a favorite, either like sort of recurring guest star, like an Oliver Platt sort of like, you know, whatever.

51:12Joanna Robinson:Do you have a favorite like recurring Marlee Matlin, blah, blah, blah, guest star or like an era of like the, you know, various guest stars who stuck around for a while and you're like, I really liked the X era of West Wing and they never became a series regular, but I was a fan. I think a single episode guest star who really got me is Laura Dern pops through as a US Poet Laureate who Toby has a really bad crush on. Thank you. And she's just fucking phenomenal. I mean, as you would expect from Laura Dern popping through for an episode. But it's another great confrontation of the idealism of the show, of somebody who doesn't work in government, who's just an outside observer but politically minded, and she gets to come in and be the voice of basically, Why don't we do more about a lot of very seemingly simple ideas and issues?

52:04And then Toby gets to be Oscar the Grouch, but they just have such a warm dynamic that I'm so charmed by it. So that's always one. Her is Tabitha Fortas that just sings for me.

52:15Joanna Robinson:Do you... Sorry, I've just never gotten to interrogate you about the West Wing, so I just have a lot of questions. This is what we're doing here, Joe. Do you... When you rewatch, how often do you rewatch the non-Sorkin era versus the Sorkin era of the West Wing? I do rewatch it. And in fairness, I think it gets there by seven. Like, it doesn't get back to the heights of the first four seasons, but it gets into, like, a really comfortable, watchable place. I just think if you have, like, Alan Alda on TV that much, it's never going to be that bad. Like, it's just, again, the floor is super high.

52:47Joanna Robinson:Sure, sure. And so, like, by the time you get to seven, like, they figured some stuff out, and it's so much more of a campaign show than it is an actual, like, running the government show by that stage that it feels like a distinct thing. So, look, 5 and 6 can be pretty rocky. They didn't do right by our pal Lizzie Moss, ultimately, with this show, with a lot of her plot lines. Our best friend, Lizzie Moss, yeah. Ultimately, I think 7 is pretty fun. And so 5 and 6 are definitely the multitasking seasons. Maybe I'll still put them on, but it's okay if I'm cooking dinner. All right. Well, this has been a little toe dip into West Wing, one of Rob's favorite shows.

53:27Joanna Robinson:I'm really glad that we got to talk about one of your favorite shows. Shame. Joe, thank you for indulging me. Thank you to TheRinger.com for giving us this excuse to talk about the Westway. 16th on the list. Justin Sales, our producer, was like, hey, maybe one of these top episodes. And we're like, nope, number 16 it is. That's what we're doing. Anyway, I really recommend you read, of course, the entire list that's up on TheRinger.com. You know, let us know your opinions about what should have been on there. Definitely. politely perhaps disagreeing with what's on there and just like our colleagues are just so smart and funny the way they talk about write about television and I really admire what they did here so please support that project anything else you want to say Ramoni before we go just email us at prestigetv at spotify.com with any of your other various West Wing takes Mandy was robbed you know like Toby got what he deserved in the end whatever your bad take may be, I kind of do want to hear it.

54:29Joanna Robinson:Yeah. Press htv at Spotify.com or resident of Maddieville at gmail.com. We will answer either emails and hopefully we did right by the people who are so excited to see that we would be talking about West Wing. I hope so. I think some people thought we were doing an every episode rewatch of West Wing and... I'm sad to say it's already been done. It has been done perfectly, so no need for us to do that, but we will maybe check in again in the future if we have another excuse to do so. Thank you to Kai Grady, our chief of staff, on this episode. And we'll be back with more Pluribus coverage, with another installment of the 100 Best Episodes of the Century episode.

55:11Joanna Robinson:We've got Chair Company coverage coming, Heated Rivalry coverage coming, so there's a lot going on. So, stay tuned to the feed and we'll see you soon. Bye!

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