‘Widow’s Bay’ Episodes 1-3: The Island Wakes Up

23:40Have you ever had a moment where you're like, maybe? I've never had that moment. But I will say like, maybe this is the effect that horror movies do have on me. I'm not a scaredy cat. But after watching like Wreck for the first time or something like that, that's like truly unsettling. Yeah. I need like a decompression watch. Like otherwise, if I'm like looking at every dark corner, I'm like every time I pan to look into a mirror, I fully expect a jump scare in my own reflection. It's like I am impressionable in that way from this sort of media. But in life, I can't say I've ever sensed a ghost.

24:10There are there are things that I prefer to watch at home during the day. Yeah. That's sort of my level of, you know, if there was a horror movie that was extremely popular and people are like, you got to see Hereditary. I'm like, great. Sure. I want to see it at home with the daylight streaming. See, that's what I thought when I watched It Follows at Home Alone during the day, which is a horror movie that is almost exclusively at like during the day, creepy things following year round. I do wonder with Widow's Bay, are we ever going to get any spooky, scary stuff during daylight hours? It seems like it's more of a haunting thing at night right now.

24:44Interesting. I know we're going to go through like some of our favorite characters or whatever, but was there, other than Matthew Rhys and Stephen Root, an actor that popped up here that you're like, oh, I love this actor. I'm so excited. This is a leading question. Yes. Do you want me to just give my answer? Let's just do it. Toby Huss, who's playing the priest. Yeah. I'm Reverend Bryce. I'm a huge Toby Huss fan. I don't know if they call themselves Hussies or not, but they should. They absolutely do. Toby Huss is so, like such an incredible character actor guy when he showed up I'm like they got Huss they got Huss to do Reverend Bryce and he's like 12th down the list of cast so where do you know him from I know him best from like he's like a long time like he worked on Beavis and Butthead Adventures of Pete and Pete but Halt and Catch Fire is like gotcha and I like he was actually the first time I ever interviewed a celebrity in person have I told you this story was at South by Southwest when Halt and Catch Fire had its first season and I did like a round table interview with Lee Pace, Mackenzie Davis, and Toby Huss.

25:47That was the first time interviewing like actors in person. But I was already like all in on Lee Pace. And Lee Pace, the way that I like laughed in response to Lee Pace is unfortunately forever on tape because I recorded that conversation. Do you listen back to it? So embarrassing to me. And I forever appreciate that Toby Huss was just like, I feel like really seeing me in that moment and just being like, it's okay. Whatever's happening to you right now, it's going to be okay. We need those spirit guides in these interview circumstances. So I feel like emotionally attached to him because he was just like really holding it down.

26:23That was 2014. That was a very good bonding experience for me. I'm glad you had that moment together. I too love Toby Huss, but for very different reasons. What's your Toby Huss association? I mean, for me, he will always be the whiz on Seinfeld. Are you familiar with this episode? Remind me. So Elaine starts dating this guy who has like this undeniable charm, like this glint in his eye that has this like power over her and she can't place like why it's happening or where it's coming from. It turns out it's because he is like the cartoonish mascot for like a furniture store called The Wiz because he's like creating magical prices or whatever.

26:57And so the slow realization over the course of this episode that he's not just this like dashing interesting man, but also this cartoonish buffoon on TV. So great. And I think he gets to play both sides of that here where he's both like the severe priest and the priest who's like making the Bible jokes and the Bible, Bible, Bible, blah, blah, blah. There's evil in these woods and I'm going to walk off into the darkness. Like it's he's so good and so funny and so little screen time. I'm delighted that he's here. And this is like to take us back to sort of the Parks and Rec influence. It just seems, you know, it seems like the kind of project that people who are quite funny want to be a part of.

27:34You know what I mean? and Toby Huss is not like the funniest guy that has ever existed but like it's very funny in this show but like you know Neil Casey's here Neil Casey SNL writer was in Katie's Ghostbusters movie for better for worse et cetera et cetera just like the people Tim Balsu shows up like all these like this is just like the right tier of comedic actor that I just like am so excited to see and like and the whole crew that's at City Hall is just like incredibly good stuff And they get to play so fun and so broad. And I mean, it does feel like a Parks and Rec, like, citizens rogues gallery that's developing.

28:12The one exception being it's like Wick is a character who he is one of those stereotypes, but he's also like not so insane as he seems. I mean, I guess he's still insane. He's just also correct about the hauntings. Rosemary is also the one who has like some hag lore and she's right about that, too. So, you know, he should crawl into the crawl space all the way. Great suggestions from Rose Mary. Before we get into our categories, we got an email. We got a lot of emails from people saying, please cover Widow's Bay. We love it. We will not be reading all of those emails out, but thank you so much for writing them.

28:43We got an email from our listener, Carolyn, who wanted to point out that Kitty Dippold is from New Jersey, where Carolyn's from. And that was used as an inspo for this. This is an interview that Kitty Dippold gave New Jersey Monthly. Quote, there used to be a haunted house on the boardwalk in Long Branch. It was terrifying, and I was way too young for it. I would be so scared, but I would be so excited and giddy. And that's actually a huge inspiration for the show I'm doing because I want to capture that feeling again where something is tense and terrifying, but then you still laugh at the end.

29:13And then Carolyn, our listener, also sent in the URL weirdnj.com. Are you familiar with this? There is a website, Weird NJ, where it's just like your travel guide to New Jersey's local legends and best kept secrets. So it's just like, I guess the New Jersey devil would be like one of the things like all of the weird stuff, the X-Files-esque stuff that have ever happened in New Jersey are, you know, collected here on this website. So shout out weirdnj.com. If you have a weird New Jersey story that you would you've experienced listeners and would like to send it to us, please do. I would like to hear them.

29:45I would also love to hear those. Prestige TV at Spotify.com. Yeah, I think slightly better than our maggot story collection from the pit. Perhaps. One hopes. I gotta say, I enjoyed those two in their way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there is something about places like New Jersey, though, that are like just normal and boring enough where they create this sort of legend. And places like this, too, places like Widow's Bay, where it's like just kind of a quiet seaside town that doesn't have a lot going for it. But then all of a sudden has this history of like cannibalism and all of these things in its past that can't ever go away because people keep drumming them up.

30:18Rob, it took them four whole days to turn to cannibalism. Like, let's calm down. How long would it take you? I simply would not eat another person. Wow, you're going to Mallory me? This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods Market Peach Apricot Rose Italian Soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items.

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32:39Every outfit starts with a choice. What am I wearing underneath? Something comfortable? And let's be honest, something that keeps everything looking smooth. That's where Vanity Fair Lingerie comes in. Their new smoothing wireless bra has four-way stretch fabric for all over smoothing, soft, lightly lined cups for a natural shape, and no wire comfort that lasts all day. All over smooth, all day comfort. Vanity Fair Lingerie. Find yours at Target today. I apologize. All right. Do you want to get to our categories? Let's do it. Okay. First category, best bit of lore. There's a well in the woods. I love a dark well.

33:16There's a rusty hatch with a scary chair at the end of episode one. That one's real scary. Very losty to end with a literal hatch. Yes. Love that for me. What do you want to shout out lore-wise? I have some other options here. I want to go comedy-wise on the lore. I think one of the things that made me laugh hardest in these three episodes is when, I'm totally blank on her name, but the woman who is doing the historical society tour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Specifically, when you're talking about the witch trial being a great source of pride. We caught him. We burned him. Jerry. Jerry, thank you. Played by Nancy Linhan.

33:49Jerry's doing great work. And I want to say, I did do the Zoom In and Jerry does get an extensive shout out in the New York Times article that was published. So I'm glad she's getting her. Thank you, Arthur. Thank you so much. This show feels made for you to pause and Zoom In. It took me a long time. I watched these episodes through and then I rewatched them for this and it took me, I did a lot of pausing and scrutinizing of like lists and articles and like maps and book titles and whatever the case may be. There's so much great stuff. Like back in my like lost era. Now, Arthur's lead writing, I think we could have a conversation with him and his editor about that.

34:24The text is good. Everything that they read from the article in the car is like straight up there in the prop, but I think we can do better. You want, you would have zhuzh it up a bit more? I mean, it's just a little bland. You don't think you would get these many crowds coming to... I don't think so. But also, you know what? The New York Times editors notoriously kind of stingy with this stuff. It's true. They don't want you to get too spicy about it. But yeah, like we're enormously proud of our witch trial work. Like we caught them. We burned them. It's like so good. The way her delivery to.

34:54I will say the island is wake. Wick saying the island is waking up. Oh, yeah. Incredible. Again, lost. You are with us always. We get a boogeyman reference. We do. Excited to see that pay off. Hopefully that seems to be very Patricia. Patricia's 40 now. When that comes back in like episode three, when she's like, he was like an elderly woman. Was she 40? This woman does not forget. Patricia, we will get to you. We will give you your flowers. 1846, The Fog That Stole Souls. Great stuff. The shipwreck painting in the inn. I do love the shipwreck painting and the drowning child. Yeah, the drowning child.

35:29The Captain Sweet, the innkeeper kicking the suitcase in because he refuses to cross the threshold and then the later like payoff with the 10 seconds, 30 seconds. Ungrateful Hortense, Miss Gerald. Ugly Hortense. Should the bell toll, there are steps you must take. I love a tolling bell. I love a mysteriously tolling bell. The second we see that bell chained up, Joe, I'm like, we're cooking with gas. Because you're like, oh, this is definitely Evan shenanigans. Then you're like, uh-uh, not even Evan. Dusty ladder, chained bell. Yeah. Whatever subplot and side quest that the priest is going on, I think is a great runner undercutting a lot of the season.

36:04I think you need it too, right? You need the comedic undercutting at times, but you also need just like the, we are slowly building the stakes of something increasingly scary happening beyond just your sea hags. There's a well in the woods, Rob. I don't like, the second he looked, do not lean over. And I feel like there was like eerie oohing coming from the well. We need to do a public service announcement. If you find a dark well in the woods, do not under any circumstances lean over the well. I don't know how many times we have to say this. What if someone's holding your ankles for you while you do it?

36:35Like you do like the buddy system. Only lean over a well if you're using the buddy system and someone has a firm grasp on your ankles while you're doing it. I would like to propose a trust exercise for you and I and Kai. Yeah. In which we all do this for each other. We go find an abandoned well out in the woods. Rob, I don't. Would you trust us to hold your ankles? I trust Kai. I don't know that I trust you. You know what? Honestly, fair. I can't even argue it. The video guy. Is there a body bag on the shore in that video where the guy just like walks away? There's like a dark object on the shore.

37:06I mean, there's a lot happening in that video. We haven't mentioned Twin Peaks yet. Of course. But like very Peaks-y, very Laura. I would say more effectively than most. Yeah. When people reach for David Lynch, I think they often end up in some other field entirely. This one I think is getting the right notes. And then the clown killer of 51. Yeah. Our guy. And then also he's gotten a couple mentions, but Richard Warren, first Reef Prime and Lord Island Protector. his second wife Sarah who gets a lingering shot over the like opening title in the third that sort of statue of her the historical society I think statue is generous mannequin perhaps paper mache construction and then the headless Richard Warren statue amazing out and about I did I do know that Hamish Linkletter is in this season and I do think the portrait in the historical society of Richard Warren looks like one of my favorite actors, Hamish Linklater, who is the star of Midnight Mass, by the way.

38:04So you're proposing perhaps a flashback or a ghost? We've gotten so many references to the founder that I would not be surprised. There's got to be some lore there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And especially whatever's happening with the creepy chair that you cited underneath the restaurant. That's clearly something that's been there for a long time and has been part of some kind of continuous town exercise or lore. Perhaps, but the hatch itself looks, because it was the 1600s when the island was founded. The hatch looks more modern than the 1600s. Well, that strikes me as a semi-modern way to accommodate whatever is happening.

38:38I don't think it's like rocket science to deduce that this could perhaps be like a human sacrifice situation, right? There's straps on the chair. It looks like an electric chair, but it's not. It's just straps. It's just kind of keeping you in place. They open the hatch. Whatever thing comes out of the hatch, you know, cabin in the woods style and eats you. Maybe that was like, you know, a mid-50s kind of invention. They're like, okay, we're going to create the hatch. We got to get this. We got to put some doors on this thing. We got to get this under control. Yeah, this tunnel that is just an open gaping wound on the island.

39:07Let's put a hatch on it. So let's just like be reasonable. All right. Favorite city employee. There's really no argument for anybody else. It has to be Patricia, who I think is my favorite character on television right now. Is anyone doing it better than Patricia? I would die for Patricia. She's so good. So Kate O 'Flynn, Have you seen Cato Flynn in anything? I don't believe so. So the thing that I know her best from is she was in this canceled Amazon show called My Lady Jane, where she played Princess Mary. And she was so funny. She like just this exact level of funny, like a woman who is absurd in many ways.

39:47Right. When she's like, oh, they left my poem out of the brochure. She's an artist, okay? Like, yeah. Did you show my paintings? Like absurd in many ways, but also like, I mean, this is less true of My Lady Jane, but like I care about her and I'm rooting for her so much. Protect Patricia. If you wanted to create an effective cliffhanger, there's something bad happening at Patricia's Sunset Drinks. I'm on the hook. Like I need this next episode immediately. The voicemail that she left for Tom. I'm at the event that you said you would be at. So good. She actually might bring a gun to work. But like Cato Flynn in this performance, like she's just the right amount of credulous.

40:27Yeah. Like she is also willing to buy or believe or talk through basically anything in a way that is just so fucking funny. And the fact that she's basically like the second most maybe competent person at City Hall while believing in all these things, while wanting to tell you yet again about her boogeyman encounter. It's just like a perfect blend of a character. When Wick is talking about the shipwreck that occurred because an older man was in love with a teenage girl, she's like, are the older women dead in this scenario? Incredibly good. Her finding out that her biological age is 28. Like what's going on with the biological ages of these Islanders?

41:01I have some questions. Who knows? Yeah, Patricia is an icon. But the whole crew, I mean, Rosemary, Dale is played by the Emmy winner Jeff Hiller. Great energy. When he's describing the Islanders' reaction to taxation, they're like, if you want this blood money, you'll have to come collect it yourself. See, that feels very Parks and Rec for sure, right? Exactly, exactly. And we got to shout out Ruth too. Like, I mean, as far as an elderly assistant who does not know anyone's phone numbers, cannot read her own handwriting, and wants to take a nap by 11 a.m. A fucking icon. It's the mornings that are tough, Rob.

41:35She really needs a ride. You know, and then the other, like Garrett at the lighthouse, like all the other people around here. The innkeeper. It's all great. It's an incredible cast. Yeah. Favorite obvious joke? I think the best obvious joke has to be the sea hag crawling into your bed and killing you by sitting on your face. Like that is, that's a God-tiered joke. Yeah. Betwixt her thighs, your final sin. Yeah. I don't know how you could write a better premise for a horror comedy show than this. That you have to lock yourself in a chest for 72 hours to resist the paralysis that's going to kill you because of the sea hag.

42:10It's just great. It's really good. It's funny because I'm the one who said we should do obvious joke and then throwaway joke. But I was having trouble sorting them a little bit. It walks the line. Because I was like, oh, one of my obvious jokes is a visual gag. But a lot of my throwaway jokes are visual gags. It's like they're there if you want them. But I do think the giant headline of cannibalism in God's house. No, that took four days. I think it's obvious. It's like quite obvious and very funny. Really, really funny. It's the prop, but also called out in dialogue. That feels obvious. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

42:40Also, he murdered teenage girls. You're in your 40s. You'd be fine. It's also extremely, extremely good. All right. Any other obvious jokes you want to call out? Dickhole Street? Yeah, Dickhole Street's really good. Shout out, Evan. All right. Favorite throwaway joke. I think it's also Seahag related. It's when... You love that hag. I honestly did really love the hag. You're a hag guy. When Tom calls the sheriff to tell him about his hag experience and the sheriff has written down, old woman, possibly damp, faster than old woman should be, exclamation point. Absolute perfection. We should say Kevin Carroll, an actor we love in The Leftovers, is here.

43:13I love him in this sheriff's role. It's great. I didn't prompt you to come up with any theories, but I have one theory. I would love to hear it. Is the sheriff's wife real and or alive? Do you think she is also a ghost? I don't know. We've only heard her on the other side of the phone. It's a haunt. It's a haunted island. People do make phone calls, Joe. I know. I'm just saying we haven't seen her yet. I would think this is a small enough town that everyone would know, right? The only person you saw him on the phone talking to his wife was Wick, who would be like, there he is talking to his dead wife again or something like that.

43:48I hadn't even considered it. I don't know. I just like when I haven't seen a character, I'm like, why haven't I seen that character? Why is that just a voice on the phone? Well, his grand designs do seem to be to move away, to leave the island. I mean, maybe his wife tried to leave the island and was among those who died as soon as she got to the mainland. Many people die when they get to Boston, truly or spiritually. Crash truck in the wolves calendar. Yeah. Really good. All of the headlines. Priest eaten by whale. Man found dead by horse was like an extremely good one. I did read the lead on that article.

44:18Very good. The Daddy's Home game, the teeth game. Just pliers. The game is just pliers. The one that he didn't open, which is just called She Shouldn't Have Said That. Incredibly good. The run bit, all of that. When I was like watching it and they were playing Daddy's Home and the guy that I was like pretty sure was a ghost said, oh man, I'm in the basement. I'm getting crushed. I was like, did this guy die by getting crushed in a basement? And we do find him in the crawl space later on. It's a little different. We do. And then would you call the Kathy runner a non-obvious joke? I think it's fairly obvious, but I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

44:57Tom's enemy Kathy at the diner. Everyone's enemy, it seems. I don't know. She's best friends with Marissa. I mean, she got a free burger and fries out of it. Sounds great. Some people do win. Yeah. Oh, and one other thing, one other visual. In episode three, when we get the Richard Warren video. Yeah. There's just like a brief glimpse of the map. and he's describing like, you know, 42 nautical miles, like blah, blah, blah. And then just says, do not travel here in large letters on the map that he's like describing this bucolic island that they found. Is this the same video? So is this the one of the gentlemen in the room talking about the town's history?

45:34Goes to leave and the door is locked and he just stands. Again, another just like wonderful little joke sitting right there. Very Blair Witchy. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I also think Wick just nailing a board to the door without nailing it to the frame. This is why we play. Again, that's a great throwaway when he's just sort of like he opens the door. Did absolutely nothing. Yeah, it did nothing. All right. Favorite horror movie reference or Easter egg? I think it's all the Jaws stuff for me. Yeah, yeah. As far as the Easter egg, I really did love the board games as well. Teeth is just like such a diabolical idea.

46:05And also when Thomas is driving to Arthur at the Historical Society, like, you know, 42 people set out. She's like 43. He's like, it's a little early for that story. and he's like it came to an island and nothing was here and she's like except for the teeth except for the teeth except for the teeth did you ever play Don't Wake Daddy the board game Don't Wake Daddy um it's like a real board game yeah yeah yeah yeah no but yes it's amazing in retrospect how much like how many games I remember there's also a cartoon show called Wait Till Your Father Gets Home it's like how many things were just constructed around like dads coming home and being fucking furious because in part they got yelled at by their younger bosses Don't Wake Daddy I remember like Like the commercial was like, don't wake dad.

46:45Yeah. This felt very don't wake daddy coded to me. Dad's younger, got chewed out by his younger boss. Really funny. Horror movie reference slash Easter egg. I will say, I guess, yeah, the shining stuff in episode two. But also like, those are things I might be inclined to miss. So Prestigetv at Spotify.com. Yeah, if you have any deep cuts, we'd love to hear them. Best haunt, scare, spook or fright. Look, I think it simply has to be the clown killer at 51. Really true. And specifically, like, Tim Balz, who, I mean, I just love Unrighteous Gemstones. Just the right amount of, like, aw shucks-y in bonding with Tom in the first place and then turning him into the clown killer.

47:22It's, like, not unexpected, but what a payoff. When he, like, lowers himself into frame. You know what's happening. It's really tough. And he's really been watching the game tape on the Pennywise crawl. Like, he really gets it. Yeah, I can't beat clown. I can't beat clown for you. I will say, though, if we get more Blair Witch stuff, I will talk more about the Blair Witch, but I have like a long, strong association with the Blair Witch Project. But I will say Tom having the camcorder that he had to like record his experience into. Very Blair Witch-y. A lot of camcorders, a lot of tube TVs. Are they just raiding the severance prop department?

47:57Is that what's happening? All right. This category I'm calling New England's best kept secret, which is the headline on Arthur's New York Times article. Is there a moment watching these three episodes where you're like, huh, Widow's Bay actually seems pretty nice. I think it's the no-sell signal. I agree. To be unreachable. No Wi-Fi, no-sell signal? Oh my God. Well, you welcome the peace and quiet, says Tom. I actually would. Yeah. Counterpoint, could I ever live in a place with two restaurants? That seems like tough. The Driftwood. The Salty Whale is a nice one. Yes. I think it is the Driftwood Diner, maybe?

48:32Something like that. Okay. You need more than two. I just need a little variety. There's a coffee shop? Yes. What I love about - Newly installed cappuccino machine. What I love about Tom, single dad, single working dad, is that it seems like they eat takeout every single night. That man has never cooked in his life. Yeah. I loved the like little moment when they're watching the ball game and he like takes the onions off his sandwich, like without even looking and just like puts them on his son's sandwich. It's kind of lovely. I also say a place that has Hills Beach, Arter Point, the Seated Rye, Cobble Pond all sounds like very nice to me.

49:06there is unfortunately also a place called the Old Hospital, which is tough. I love a coastal, like a coastal town. Mendocino, California, my favorite place in the whole world. The fog has had us for a long time. It may just be getting the people of Widows Bay, but... I'm really pro-fog. Yeah. It's been kind of foggy in LA. It has. The last couple of days has been really nice. Unseasonably. I've enjoyed it. Could use a cliff, you know? An LA local called it the May Gray. I don't know if that's like a real LA thing, but she's like, I guess it's the May Gray. I guess we're going to make it a thing if it's not a thing.

49:36Well, we're new to L.A. Hey, is that a thing, L.A.? We don't know. I do think the old hospital, that's perfect, like, New Jersey-style lore. It's like, you can drive by it, but you can't stop there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, amazing stuff. That's Matthew Rhys' physical comedy beat. I think it has to be him floundering around in the shallow part of the beach after being chased to the shore by the hag. That's really good. Also, like, his rash guard that he's wearing. And then also the, like, I was thinking a lot of the ice rink moment in Parks and Recreation, that Gloria Estefan get on your feet when he was like, when I'm so excited it was playing as he's walking down in his rash guard to like do his swim.

50:13Very, very ice rink to me. When he promises Wick, he'll give him five minutes of his undivided attention. Yes. And Wick's like, I don't want you correcting my grammar. I want to go tit for tit. I want to go for tit for tit. And then he does, Matthew Rhys does this like shaking it off, sort of like clenching his jaw thing. Swallow your tongue. Yeah, this is just sort of like, The clock hasn't even started yet. And I need to just eat this down. Yeah. So much of the show, we should say, like really relies on Matthew Rhys. Yeah. Playing the comedy beats clearly, but also like he has to be alone to be frightened, right?

50:47So like you have to put him in spaces where he is really the only actor responding to these crazy things that are happening. I don't know that I've ever seen him in quite this like frantic a register. Usually even when he's stressed, there's like kind of a control to him. And so seeing him be a little more spastic, a little more like, I'm so delighted you just compared us to Martha's Vineyard. I like can't help but cackle in the middle of this restaurant. Like there is an on-edgeness to him that I'm really appreciating. Obviously, we love him, the Americans. We weren't like huge Perry Mason heads or anything like that.

51:19We did watch all of The Beasted Me. We did. That man can eat a chicken. I'm just so excited for him to have this role. This is such a good, good role for him. Oh, he's really good on Girls too. He's great in that Girls episode. Yeah, Matthew Rhys, just like a really underrated absolute rock star. Alright, something something Stephen Root. What Stephen Root moment do you want to call out? I feel like I am indexing it very hard on season three because somebody had to bring a shanty and I'm glad it was Stephen Root. Singing the hack song, that's what I have too. Is it the last shanty we'll hear in this Jaws-inspired you know, island-based folk horror?

51:55So many sailors have been lured to their death. You're telling me we don't have any other shanties about what happened? Honestly, if every episode had a sea shanty about whatever horrors await us, I would welcome it. The fact that the shanty starts with him just going like, oh. And I don't know why I've saved him for last, but we wanted to shout out Evan's. Evan's Guide to Teenage Rebellion. Okay, so, speaking of people who I'm really excited for, the actor playing Evan, we first met on Presumed Innocent. We sure did. Another Apple show, we should note. Kingston, Rumi, Southwick. They almost have like stable of actors that they're sort of fascinated.

52:32Netflix does, as HBO does. But Chase Infinity had, you know, a great, like, year last year. She did. Was it because of Presumed Innocent? No, but I'm just saying, like, she got her, like... Completely. Let's wash off the stench of my... It wasn't her fault. Narrative role in Presumed Innocent. But I don't remember Kingston Remy Southwick like popping in Presumed Innocent the way that he is like really popping for me in this show. I think he's so funny. His just incredibly dry, sarcastic, like response to Tom's agitation is just extremely good. And there's so many other ways to play this kid as like more of a shithead or like all this other stuff.

53:21But like, I like him, but also he's just constantly like being a smart ass and lying. and I just, I really enjoy him. And the very specific way that he's playing dumb is like super funny. I'm completely with you. Like this is the kind of character on other shows that's usually like very annoying. And it's like clearly the weak point. Every scene he's in is wonderful and super funny. And I think some of it is like, again, that delicate balance where there is like a sweetness to him where like the playing dumb you buy, but also he's clearly so much smarter than he's letting on the like, I found this joint.

53:53Do you know what this is? After taking 10 seconds to consider what he's going to say. Do you know what this is? I was trying to figure out and then he exhales. It's a different kind of fog coming for all of us. That's so funny. Yeah, like staying the night with Ruth and when he's like, okay. And he's like, what did you just concoct? It was really good. He just figured out that Ruth wouldn't be able to tell the difference between him and like an armoire, you know? Dickhole Street. Somebody did that? That's horrible. That's crazy. That's horrible. Oh yeah, it's a sleepover date. Yeah, it's exactly what it is.

54:25so good any thoughts or feelings about these teenagers and what they might get up to I mean they're gonna have to be imperiled like that's just the logic of a horror movie and specifically Evan is gonna have to be imperiled in a way that will test Tom or test his bravery or his willingness to believe all this stuff and like the line right now is Tom is clearly scared out of his mind but won't acknowledge to anyone who's not Wick in part because Wick just shot the sea hag with a gun and turned her into like mucky water pause for a moment yeah what did that smell like I mean you don't want to know do you really resume it smells like the still water of a fucking bog you know what very boggy what if we could watch this show in 40x the spray yeah yeah I you know what I would welcome it I would welcome the extrasensory experience we get a little like sprits of cappuccino a little earlier on at least a waft yeah yeah exactly I don't trust every show or movie with that experience but I do think they would be very good at it.

55:25Anything else you want to call out for Widow's Bay? A show that we're really enjoying. Again, the show does such a great job of all those inversions that we mentioned. And like, I think one of the things that there's these moments in every episode that are driving that home for me. When the sea hag has crawled on top of Tom in his recliner and he uses it to catapult her across the room. Yeah. There's just so many of those moments where it's like, I feel like I'm in great hands tonally. I feel like every time that I am settled or unsettled, I'm going to be yanked back in the opposite direction in a way that feels like so sure of itself.

55:54You had watched episode one and I had watched episode two. And something that I was saying to you is like, when I watched episode one, I thought like, what's the fog was going to be like the whole season. But it's like the fog is just episode one. Right. Episode two, we got a haunted inn. Yeah. Episode three, there's a sea hag. But accompanying all of it is the like, the mayor is going to spend a night in the inn or the inaugural swim. This very Parks and Recreation, like there's a harvest festival we have to put on sort of thing. So like Beach Reads, which is episode four, is this like, is this Sunset Drinks?

56:31Like it has to be, right? We can't like not find out what happened to Sunset Drinks, right? I mean, we have to see what happens there. And I would assume too, like this is probably not the last we've seen of Marissa and her bachelorettes. Or do you think? I should hope so. They, she had like great chemistry with Matthew Rees. Really great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he blew it. He did. You know, he overthought the hag situation. Tom was going to blow it no matter what. That is 100 % true. But I'm imagining based on what could be happening at the drinks, maybe this is where the island starts getting locked down a little bit.

57:00But I guess we also have so much season left. Maybe that's not the case. I'm just going to read the other episode titles just so we can have some fun doing that. What to Expect on Your Trip. Our History, which could be a flashback episode. Sure sounds like it. That's the Thai West episode. So be afraid. Seasickness. Your Baggage. Emergency Shelter. a storm. We hope you enjoyed your time! Exclamation mark. So, I really love this show. I hope more and more people are watching this show. This is a show that I hope runs for several seasons. And unlike Severance doesn't have like three years in between seasons would be really nice.

57:36Do you think the premise itself lends itself to multiple seasons? Well, I guess it depends on like the island is waking up. Is there something we have to, you know, like Reverend Bryce, Toby Huss is like there are things that you must do. So like, are there things that, you know, leading up to your human sacrifice chair theory, et cetera, et cetera, are there things to do to appease the island? And if there are, is that an end of the season or is that a series long endeavor? Or like, or does it just like wake up again next summer? How often does the island wake? You know, how many hag-like sea shanties can we concoct?

58:11It's a great question. Yeah, I did have that question of how long can something like this go? I think it's always tough with like, high concept comedy. But since we're in like the Mike Schur coaching tree, it was something that I know was like hovering over The Good Place from minute one. Right. It's like as soon as the show starts. I was thinking about The Good Place a lot with this show. I think it also has a lot in common. But it's like how once you play out the conceit to a certain point, where do you go? How do you reinvent it? How can you change it? Like, I think there's so many things about Tom's story that would have to be dramatically different now that he's opened his eyes to what it means to exist in the fog and all these other mysteries.

58:45And like, that's where like the if you'll pardon like the fog as the mist part comes into play where it's not even about like what is the imminent danger but the idea that there is imminent danger that you now have to acknowledge and recognize that'll be a dramatic shift for the show anything else you want to say before we go I'm ready to get out of here I just I hope we get more Kathy I hope she continues to be very terrible at her job it's bringing me much delight and I love doing this show and I love talking about it with you Joe shout out Katie Dippold who we're did you want to explain for the listeners why you were most excited that Katie Dippold is running the show?

59:16I mean, the Parks and Rec connection is nice. The Ghostbusters connection is nice. The Heat connection is nice. She is the author of the single greatest tweet in the history of the medium, which if you're not familiar with dressing like the Babadook when your friends are having more of like a grownups drinking wine vibe situation, I can think of no source text that would show that someone is better for horror comedy than that. So we really are in great hands. It's the photo that goes along with that tweet that really sells it. Just tremendous. Yeah, look it up if you haven't seen it. If we can throw up that visual here on the pod it.

59:44Well, let's please do that. Absolutely. And I just want to shout out Neil Casey, who is not only playing the innkeeper, but also wrote episode three, one of your favorite episodes of this batch. So I'm excited to see, I love Parks and Recreation. I love Mike Schur shows. And so like as much of that sort of these city employees are trying to hold things together and deal with disgruntled locals. I also, something I do love, in a haunted island East Coast show that's like reaching for Stephen King and all this sort of stuff like that. One could easily be saddled with a lot of burdensome accents and that's not what's happening here.

1:00:25No. But occasionally you get a local who's like, he's homeless. Like stuff like that where you're just sort of like, I'm glad not everyone has to make the swing for that accent but it's there if you look for it. You need a little bit of old bae in there somewhere else it's not really gonna work. Yeah. I do think also too it was so interesting hearing about the shaping of this project. Like this is something that Katie Dippold had been kind of like working on and sitting on for a long time and had been formative into her getting into Parks and Rec in the first place. Yeah. And that the version that we're seeing is so much more horror-oriented than the initial was like harder comedy.

1:00:57In particular, it seems like the scene at the historical society is like maybe the most consistent in terms of what has survived that earlier version of it. At least the earlier version of that pilot or movie or whatever it was supposed to be. But even then, it was like it's been totally recalibrated and the framing has been changed. And it's like, I love when things like this kind of have that extended second life when it's just like, you just have to find the right register to take this into a totally different gear. Something that's been kicking around someone's head for so long. Yeah, I'll be interested to see how the tone, again, if there's like episodes that feel more comedy and more horror.

1:01:30There's nothing wrong with that, I think, inside of the season as long as it all, the scales all feel kind of balanced at the end of the day. That's been Widow's Bay. I really hope if you listen to this and you haven't watched the show, which as we've been told, some people sometimes do, Thanks so much for listening. But also, watch Widow's Bay. And we'll be back for Euphoria Sunday night. Me sure will. I'm not sure that was a podcast that we made on Sunday, but we're going to do it again. Thank you to everyone who worked on the show today. Jacob Cornett is here. Kai Grady is here. I'm sure Dev is going to be working on the show in one way or another.

1:01:59Get well soon, Dev. Yeah, feel better. And thanks to you, Rob Mahoney. Thank you, Jo. Bye.

1:02:11You