‘Widow’s Bay’ Episodes 4-5: The Witching Hour

18:06I didn't even quite put it together in that way. What's so great about the Babadook tweet is at some point in our lives, we are all the Babadook, right? Like we are all the Babadook in the wrong room. And so it's just Patricia. turn.

18:17Joanna Robinson:When have you been the most Babadook in a party, Rob? Man, I gotta really think about that one. It's not an overdressed underdressed situation. I think it's just you're bringing the wrong energy to this setting. Yeah. So there has to be a time. I mean... Here's a vision I have of a moment where Rob is the Babadook. You go to like watch movies with some friends or something like that. Not like your friends that you have your Leonardo DiCaprio marathon with, but like some other new friends or something like that. Fringe friends. Perspective friends. Perspective friends. They're not paying attention to the movie.

18:45Joanna Robinson:And you're like... Heartbreaking. Why are we chattering when a movie's on? That's my idea. It's very tough. You just like instantly get a hat on your head because you've Babadooked yourself, you know? That was me trying to show some friends Wet Hot American Summer. Yeah. Maybe my favorite comedy of all time. Yeah. And like the pin drop silence in that room. I was like, oh no. Oh no. I've really Babadooked it. Do you want to get stories from our listeners when they Babadooked it? Please. Okay. Prestigetv at Spotify.com if you've ever Babadooked it at a party. Not if. When you did. We know you have.

19:17We've all done it.

19:18Joanna Robinson:Okay. Jillian wrote in with a question that was sort of like bopping around in my head, which is that the actor, Kingston Rumi Southwick, who plays Evan, who we already said we really love, he is a biracial actor. The actors playing his parents are white. In Presumed Innocent, the show that we saw him in previously on Apple, he was the child of Ruth Negga and Jake Gyllenhaal. So like a biracial kid with, you know, the sibling of Chase Infinity, the sibling of Chase Infinity. So like he's here playing the son of two very white people aggressively. Is is there something, you know, like I don't think you get whiter than Welsh.

19:59Joanna Robinson:And I say that as a person of Welsh extraction. Very true. So, you know, Jillian was sort of cooking some theories around this. I I have been burned by these kinds of theories in my Westworld days. I don't think it's necessarily the right track to go down. But it did, like, sort of raise a question mark in my mind. And perhaps, you know, the show is just sort of like, we don't care. You know. Well, it's certainly a thing to flag. I think the greater mystery around his birth, the incredibly weird circumstances surrounding it. Right. That's up for grabs. And we're going to be talking about it for potentially weeks to come.

20:33Joanna Robinson:So if you wrote in, a couple people wrote in to note that we did not reference John Carpenter's The Fog when talking about influences. but I do want to, and I don't get credit for this because I didn't say it into a microphone, but I do want to say I did text Rob when we were floating back and forth some inspos for this. I said, it's John Carpenter's The Fog meets Stephen King's The Mist. That was a joke I made, but I didn't say it into a microphone so it doesn't count. Also, it wasn't a joke. It's just what the show is. It is, it is. But yeah, John Carpenter's The Fog is very much top of mind here.

21:03Joanna Robinson:And then Sophie also wrote in, Sophie is a real horror movie expert, wrote in to say, as an aside, my favorite with throwaway reference to a horror movie is our girl Patricia's reference to the boogeyman. One of the things that people in the town of Haddonfield call Michael Myers. So like we were sort of already noting this Halloween reference, but she says when Patricia talked about the boogeyman, she says, she refers to her experiences as quote, the night he came, which is almost the exact tagline of the movie Halloween, which is the night he came home is the tagline for Halloween. So that's totally one over my head.

21:34Joanna Robinson:Great shout, great shout. John wrote in to ask us the larger question of how long should a show run? And I think that's just something I want to continue thinking about as we go through this season. You and I were asking this question after the first three episodes of like, how many seasons of Widow's Bay do we want? There's a part of me that wants it to run forever. But then there's another part of me of like, if it's, you know, if there's mysteries to be solved on an island, Carlton Cusen, Damon Lindelof can tell you. There's a limit to that. There is. Of how many mysteries you can have on a haunted island.

22:04But also multiple seasons.

22:06Joanna Robinson:Of 22 episodes, to be honest with you. And then if we're doing, if we're sort of riffing on horror movie tropes, how many of those do we have to go through? There's a ton of horror movies, but in terms of like those tropes, how many of those exist, you know? It's true. Do we move away from sort of the like trope of the week idea as it goes forward? Or, you know, these are questions for Kitty Dippold and her writers. But, you know, a question for us is what's too much of a good thing? I know. Or something like that. I think these days we're inundated with so much of anything that is even remotely good that I'm already a finality-oriented person, despite the fact that we covered TV for a living.

22:43So the deafness with which the show is dealing with its characters feels so tight and controlled. And it feels like they just have their finger on the pulse of this exact story. I'm a little scared once we get past the confines of this individual season and story into what a season two could be. But also like, if you've earned that trust, you've earned that trust.

23:03Joanna Robinson:And like, you know, we don't know if there's going to be, say, like a Dale episode or a Rosemary episode this season, but I could see that being something we do in a season two. We can only hope and pray there's a Rosemary episode. I'm pulling for my guy, Dale. I love him so much. All right. Check, check. One, two, one, two, one, two, three. Check, check. It's a surprising complicated system. He doesn't have Spotify Premium. The way after Patricia scolds him and then he starts whispering it into the microphone. Can we get Dale hooked up with a Spotify Premium membership? It is literally the least we could do.

23:34Joanna Robinson:I think so. Let's call the Swedes and get them on the case. We mentioned Weird New Jersey in our previous episode. Our listener, Beth, wrote in to say, in high school, we drove our car to a legendary spot in North New Jersey where if you put your car in neutral, it goes slowly in reverse on its own like you're being, quote, pulled by a ghost. It really works and is freaky. The legend is that a family of farmers were killed in a car crash and they haunt the area. I have to presume, though, Beth did not note this, that you're not on any kind of incline. The idea is you're presumably parked flat, and all of a sudden, if your car's in neutral, it will be pulled slowly backwards.

24:11Joanna Robinson:Could not be me. I will not be doing that. Would you do that? I think that's totally fine. I'm not going into the boogeyman house, but a spooky magnetism. What if an off-island girl would be impressed by you doing so? Something to think about. You know, it could be negotiated. So are you out on anything even remotely spooky, like the Winchester Mystery House? I've been to the Winchester Mystery House multiple times. Yeah, what is your mileage as far as that experience goes? When I was little, it scared the shit out of me. And then, do you remember that they made a movie about it? I actually didn't know that.

24:40Joanna Robinson:Oh, yeah. With Helen Mirren, Jason Clarke. Wow. They did the junket at the Winchester Mystery House. I went, and the only thing that could get me back to the Winchester Mystery House after being scared shitless about it as a child was the prospect of interviewing Helen Mirren, which I did inside the Winchester Mystery House. It's really the only place to interview a dame. Yeah. My hair was purple at the time, and she said she liked my hair. I don't think she did. I don't think she did. I think she was just like... It's just the thing you said? I think she was shocked and alarmed by it. She said, I like your hair in a way that I think she did not like my hair.

25:11Joanna Robinson:That's okay. Dame Helen Mirren. I'm going to choose to take her at her word. Okay, great. Believe a dame when she says something. Our listener Lily wrote in. I didn't mention this, but I did know this. As a fellow Buffy fan, Lily said, I couldn't not point out that the actress who plays Jerry also played Pat, Joyce's empanada baking friend from Book Club in Dead Man's Party, a true icon. Pat, a legend in this very patchy season two episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. What are you saying? By patchy, you mean unimpeachable. Haunted exotic mask is not my favorite trope that Buffy has ever used. I got bad news for you about Buffy in general.

25:45It's not the last time that we'll be explored. And then all the more exciting with the Buffy connection, the fact that Jerry is now like one of the Scoobies.

25:52Joanna Robinson:She and Mick have a history. They really do. And she is a like Smithsonian level conservator. She put the gloves on. And she's a math teacher, I guess. so she really can do it all you can on this island you have to do it you have to do it all all right last question from our listener singer are we shipping patricia and tom i'm not patricia did have a slightly weird energy when she's like oh you picked up a woman yes interesting and part of that was the sort of like really funny like age stuff right but was there some energy from patricia about that i think there definitely could be yeah i i appreciate their bond nonetheless follow up question they're leashed to each other inside of this episode there's a lot happening I love how over Tom's like drug trip shit she Patricia constantly like anytime we check back in with her she's like yes Tom very good use your crayons use your crayons Tom I'm kind of into it I'm gonna keep my eye I'm not not into it but I would say the warmth regardless of when they find Patricia at the end of four and just like and they're like come join us we're gonna need you we need you It's a powerful thing to be needed.

26:57Joanna Robinson:I got very emotional about that. One of our listeners wrote in saying they wanted my Blair Witch story. So I'll just say it into a microphone, which is that when the Blair Witch Project came out, a friend of mine, still my friend to this day, invited me over to his house, made pesto burgers like on the grill. And then I had a Sobe, which was a white flavor, which is pina colada. And then we went to go watch the Blair Witch Project and I got tremendously ill. and in the Chili's afterwards, I vomited in the bathroom. So you also went to Chili's. That was not my, that was not, I wanted to go home.

27:34Joanna Robinson:Oh, got you. Because I was ill. My friends who I were with were like, let's go hang out at Chili's. And I was like, and then I went into the bathroom, threw up and I came out. I was like, I just threw up in the bathroom. And they're like, okay, well, we ordered you a shake. I was like, cool story. I'm going home. I will not be drinking that delicious chocolate shake. And for the record, that was not a judgment. This is a pro Chili's podcast. Of course. But you listed four great tastes that do not taste great together. The Blair Witch, a pina colada Sobe, a pesto burger, and potentially a Chili's milkshake.

28:02I have not had a pesto burger since.

28:05Joanna Robinson:I don't even know if it's a thing. It's not a thing. I've not had it since. A white Sobe. I don't think I've had a Sobe since. That ended my relationship with Sobe's. I don't think a lot of the living world has had a Sobe since. Sobe's made it out of the 90s, and that's okay. and I am fearful of shaky cam horror movies ever since but anyway that's my Blair Witch and then we ran into a guy we went to middle school with in the lobby and he told us he saw a dead guy under a bridge once that's a story that that's my Blair Witch story what a day for you it was a day it's a real day so do you think it was the shaky cam specifically that kind of upset your system oh absolutely it wasn't the horror it was just like well I would think it was just the pesto burger and so be combo well perhaps if I had gone in without that unholy combination in me I would have had a better time.

28:49If you would have eaten the same thing but gone to see must love dogs, it would have been fine.

28:54Joanna Robinson:Well, that's ill-inducing in its own right. Could be. You know what I mean? I think if I were ever to see a shaky cam thing again and I've made it my mission not to, I would go in with a completely empty sound. I would be like water and saltines for that day. Treat it like a boat trip. That's how I say you should treat the Larry Ritchfond. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support.

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30:11Joanna Robinson:Let's get into episode four, Beach Reads. Can I talk to you about teeth and witchcraft and mythology? I would be disappointed if you didn't. Teeth have been an ongoing thing, right? Yeah. There were teeth mysteriously on the island when the original settlers got there. We had the tooth game in the hotel episode. Teeth are, listen, I'm not a witch, though I wish I was. In witchcraft in general, one can use fingernail clippings, hair, whatever, to sort of like do a spell to control someone. So teeth is one of the like sort of key iconic things that you can use to control someone. It does seem harder to get than the other things.

30:48Joanna Robinson:Well, that's what the pliers are for in the teeth game. Aren't they just? Okay. And then in terms of mythology, and I often am, Jason and the Argonauts or Cadmus. Yeah. In sort of Greek mythology, there's the story of sewing dragon teeth in a field. Do you ever learn this story? Okay, so Jason of Jason the Argonauts fame was given dragon teeth and told to sew them into the ground. And if he did, extremely strong and powerful warriors would pop up out of the ground. For every tooth you planted, a powerful warrior would pop up. One-to-one, tooth-to-warrior. Exactly. As you would expect and hope.

31:27Joanna Robinson:They're scary, they're violent. In both the Cadmus story and the Jason story, the solution to not get killed by them is to throw a rock in the middle of them and they each think that someone else threw the rock in the first place and then they all kill each other. Wow. And so that - So these guys are dumb. They're dumb and they're strong. So the phrase to sow dragon's teeth means to do something that has, that will cause a fight. Yes. Right in the first place. Does any of that have anything to do with this show? I don't know, but I thought while we're talking about witches, I might as well talk about mythology.

32:02We got witches, we got teeth. There could be powerful but dumb warriors in episodes to come.

32:06Joanna Robinson:I can only hope, you know. It's July 1st. That's what we know from the invite, the invite that Patricia sent out. Obsessively refreshing. Sad. Really tough. Really tough to watch, honestly. July 1st. And then it's one day later in episode five. So it's July. So I guess they're doing July 2nd fireworks. Yeah. I guess it depends. Maybe it's like a weekend thing. Sure. Yeah. It's the Friday or the Saturday and the 4th is on a Monday and who wants to do fireworks on a Monday? Yeah. I guess. or maybe they plan to do it all weekend. Do we have any confirmation that it's not a few days later? We do because unfortunately I was hoping it was the fourth, but Bashir said to Patricia, there's some people who woke up in the ocean last night and they have some questions.

32:43Joanna Robinson:So yeah. Maybe that was just recreational, you know? And they're blaming Patricia yet again. Sure. So yeah. I mean, you spike the punch one time. Just one time. You let all of your friends and like neighbors get overrun by the Necronomicon one time. And this is what happens. I do have some questions for like how this spell works because obviously Rosemary sees right through it, you know, the whole time. Well, she was getting the ingredients. But when you get the, when we get the reveal, honestly, one of the best reveals that has ever happened in all of television. Exquisite. Even though you know that like something's going wrong.

33:15Joanna Robinson:Of course. And a spell is being cast and all the sort of, the visual reveal, Kevin Carroll as Bashir's delivery of - What the fuck are you doing? It's so good. So outstanding. But when she goes out into the bar and see sort of the wreckage of the party. And there's like little cups turned over with like a little bit of fur and scalp in them. Yeah. I'm just sort of like, because I was like, okay, as soon as they drink the punch, the spell is cast. But presumably it's cast before that because presumably you would not drink the punch if you saw a bit of a woodland critter floating in it in the first place, right?

33:49Well, this is where I think, you know, the little centerpieces on the tables or something like that could come into play, right? There is a general bewitching that has already happened before they ever drink the punch for sure.

34:00Joanna Robinson:Playlist, who knows? Right. Who knows what spell we're casting? This is how we do it ad-supported? Yeah. That's a bewitching song. This is not a bottle episode. I'm seeing this phrase tossed around on the internet. Not a bottle episode. Not what that means. What is a bottle episode? I mean, it has to be one location. Exactly. I guess every episode of Widow's Bay is kind of a bottle episode in the sense that they're on the island. I think if everything took place in the bar. Yes, that would be a bottle episode. It could be a bottle episode. But I mean, first of all, this is Patricia's larger story.

34:29Joanna Robinson:you know there are repercussions for it in episode 5 like Bashir is still like this is an ongoing investigation into what happened here and the episode ends with like the death of another character you know what I mean like this is it's a Patricia focused episode but it's not a bottle episode and I don't think it's like a side quest in any way I think this is just all the larger woven tapestry of the island and its history the boogeyman is definitely coming back into play at some point So it's just not a bottle episode. No. I would say the best bottle episodes, yes, are a self-contained adventure.

35:05Yeah. But have like good character repercussions that transcend, but not necessarily plot repercussions. Right. And as you said, there are way too many very important things happening. Right. And the fact that this episode is an undercurrent where it's basically us checking in with what Patricia has been doing while the other part of the story has been going on, distinctly not a bottle.

35:23Joanna Robinson:That also makes me really excited about episode five to see sort of like what exactly Patricia and Wick were up to while Tom was indisposed. Yeah. As it were. Die in a fire, Chris. She almost did. But die in a fire. Chris sucks, right? Chris is the main mean girl. At the same time, I didn't appreciate in the bar this sort of humanizing moment of like, she's like, all of my friends died. So like, she's a mean girl. She's like horrible to Patricia in an outsized bully kind of way. In a, aren't we all adults here? Why are we still acting like we're 16? But we introduce, and again, inside of like a 30 minute episode, we introduce some dimensionality to this character, this Chris character at the same time.

36:09And to the social dynamics of the island as a whole. Right. Just this idea that it's not that this group of women is so clicky that no one can break in. Like we see this woman who just moved to town and she's like just kind of ushered in and a part of the group now. Yeah. It is so much about this history and about the idea that, I mean, that part of Chris is totally understandable. If you were surrounded by that kind of tragedy, especially at a young age, the idea that somebody would be like trying to benefit from it for attention of all things would be so distasteful and so enraging that you would.

36:38I mean, I think it'd be hard not to carry that with you for a really long time. But she does that. And then just like making constant mean comments about Patricia. I think all of the ways this episode kind of very subtly seeds how much on the outside looking in Patricia is with basically everybody in this group. Even something as simple as like, can you take the photo of me and all my friends? We're all drinking white, but you can totally open that red.

37:01Joanna Robinson:Please don't open that cabinet. And I'm like, of course not. The cabinet full of wine glasses. What the fuck are you talking about? God forbid. Yeah. But yeah, there's just so many ways in which we're told and shown that Patricia is not welcome here. Doesn't feel like she's of this group, even though she potentially could have been once upon a time. We also we called out Kato Flynn is like an incredible performer in the first three episodes, but just like her body language throughout all like when she shows up with the wine in the first place to the party and she's just like immediately. Yeah.

37:27Joanna Robinson:Awkward and out of place. And and then just everything thereafter. Her dancing. Incredible. So good. And then I just wanted to shout out sort of like the connective tissue between the episodes, because as much as these feel like, you know, the hotel episode, the sea hag episode, et cetera. The bachelorette party is here. if you go back to episode 3 when Tom is asking about Patricia and Dale says she's pretty caught up in her cocktail hour that's a fun line on rewatch or watching Patricia leave the voicemail that we heard Tom listen to in episode 3 it's all sort of woven together in a really really nice way Toby Huss's character is dead and that makes me really sad it's too soon way too soon I want to come back to him a little bit in the categories too Anything else you want to say?

38:13Joanna Robinson:Influences here, Carrie, Blair Witch Project, Yellow Jackets for sure. Of course. True Detective Season 1, Wicker Man, Green Man Legends, et cetera, et cetera. Anything else that you want to call out? I mean, I just, all of the witch stuff is so fun. And specifically the idea of like the punch as potion, the toast as incantation. Right. It's just seated so well. But also toast as in you're going to like roast these, like light them on fire. Yes. Yeah. Again, like as a laugh per minute exercise. it's a little delayed because everything that's happening with Patricia is so intense but then once the reveal comes and you see exactly what's been happening in the kitchen which if we just want to break it down I mean there are multiple blackbirds on that cutting board actually rewind before that the way that Patricia is cutting what we're shown as strawberries is already quite upsetting then it's revealed to be a blackbird at least one I think there's like multiple carcasses there squirrels and other there's some kind of white furry creature oh this is what you freeze framed on not the Stephen King title the animal corpse.

39:12I need to see the corpses. I need to see what's going on. It looks like there's maybe even like a nest of little blackbirds involved. Also a mortar and pestle of just like bones and spooky roots of a kind that I'm not into, but it's part of the craft.

39:25Joanna Robinson:I have a question for Chef Rob. Do you have a mortar and pestle? Of course I do. And what's your favorite thing to use it for? Well, here's the thing. Are you a garlic masher person? Economically, it just takes a lot of time. It does. So this is the problem. Mortar and pesto is the ideal way to make pesto. For example, for a pesto burger that will make you very sick. It's just so time intensive. It's like, why would I not food process this? Sure. You have it. It's decorative. It's decorative. I would say it's good for guac in particular. That, I think, is the best actual practical application for mortar and pesto.

39:55Or crushing spices.

39:56Joanna Robinson:Yeah. Or witch stuff. How many bones have been in your mortar and pesto? Zero. Zero? So far. We see the corpses that you have cataloged and quantified. There is also like a, I don't know what you call it, like a deli sort of like buzzsaw situation. What is that? Oh, yeah. It looks like a meat slicer. A meat slicer. But the serrated edges was just like dripping with blood. So what did we slice? Well, again, how are you supposed to get through that bone with just like a dulled kitchen knife from the salty whale? Just like chopping like this. Don't chop. Don't chop your strawberries that way. Don't do it.

40:30Joanna Robinson:All right. Anything else you want to say about episode four? We'll forget to five. I just fucking loved it. It was so good. And I will, you know, to revisit the part about Patricia's story, I don't know how to make heads or tails of that just yet as far as what's true or what's not. I almost don't exactly care or think that we need to know. It's like the idea that she believes it's true and other people don't is enough tension for me. You think we're, but, okay, yes. Whether or not she's telling the truth, I could see that being not revealed. But we're definitely getting a Boogeyman episode, don't you think?

40:55There's a lot of Boogeyman references. I mean, we visited the house.

40:58Joanna Robinson:Yeah, we saw the house. I was just looking at the episode titles for the rest of the season. I don't have anything that like your baggage, emergency shelter. We hope you enjoyed your time. Emergency shelter certainly sounds like maybe the cement chair door situation underneath. What could well, it's underneath the salty whale. We know that. Yeah. So it's not underneath the boogeyman house. But I was going to ask, do you think there's any bit of truth to the story among the teens about like this boogeyman guy couldn't even be killed? They had to like put him into some kind of cement prison slash grave.

41:30Joanna Robinson:Some real Michael Myers shit right there. Boogeyman, we await your arrival. With great glee. All right, so what to expect on your trip, episode five. We've already talked about sort of this like Tom not in control thing. Evan saying one of these days I'm going to leave and I'm never ever coming back. And that of course is Tom's number one fear, which is that Evan leaves and dies, never ever comes back. Not just leaves, but like his life is over, right? When? I mean, as we're kind of teased here with everything that happened to his wife first suggested did, like maybe there's things that are worse than death involved too.

42:03Maybe death is just one of the outcomes potentially.

42:05Joanna Robinson:Never ever coming back like mentally. Yeah. Abrupt subject change. Inspiration. So something that I posited to you mere minutes before we started recording is like, should we check in on some other classic drug trip episodes of television? I had some time to prepare for this. You had mere minutes. What did you come up with that you wanted to talk about? I mean, as I made the list, I was like, I love all of these episodes. I know, it's a great trope. It's a great one. The first one that came to mind for me was Six Feet Under, where Ruth takes LSD. And specifically, it's another like tightly wound, you would never expect this person to let their guard down, matriarch in that story.

42:39Absolutely tripping balls. Wonderful. BoJack Horseman might be the saddest trip episode that I've ever seen. Mad Men, I mean, Roger Sterling tripping out. Again, heavy mirror involvement going on there in a way that I appreciate. But maybe the singular one from my experience is there's a whole episode of Cowboy Bebop in which the entire cast eats mushrooms, including Ayn the Corgi, and are just off on their respective journeys over the course of the episode. Unbelievable TV.

43:04Joanna Robinson:On the animated front, the cactus juice episode of Avatar, The Last Airbender, incredibly good. It'll quench you. Nothing's quenchier. So Roger's LSD trip on Mad Men is a really good shot. That's season five, episode six, Far Away Places. But season six, episode eight of Mad Men is the crash when they all take speed in the office. And I rewatched it. And I actually think of all sort of the drug tree episodes that I checked in on this morning briefly. That one seemed to me to be the closest. Don Draper, like Matthew Rhys' acting and Don Draper's acting is like very similar. The auditory hallucinations, the like sounds of like laughter and gibbering and like stuff like that is there.

43:47Joanna Robinson:It's a great episode. Kenny Crosgrove, like tap dancing on a broken foot. Like, you know, what could be better? But like, yeah, the amphetamine episode of Mad Men is a real one. There's a very famous and really for a good reason episode of Roseanne where Roseanne and Dan and Jackie all smoke weed and they like lock themselves in the bathroom and they're just like, it's very, very funny. Freaks and Geeks, of course, has a great Lindsay Gets High episode. Would you count the Watchmen nostalgia episode? I don't know if I would, but I was thinking about it in terms of that sort of like surreal, losing time, jumping through time.

44:26Joanna Robinson:It's a supernatural drug, but like, you know. I was gonna say it's already kind of that sort of show. Yeah. Again, with that like very subjective, very loopy orientation. Like, it feels more of a piece with just the rest of Watchmen, to be honest with you. That's true. Spaced, one of my favorite shows of all time. I've actually never seen Spaced. Oh, you'd really like it. I mean, I'm very familiar with its reputation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, they're watching Star Wars, they're stoned out of their mind, And then Simon Pegg's character is like crying and they're like, what, what? And he's like, I just remembered I've got Jaffa cakes in my pocket.

44:56Joanna Robinson:Incredible stone moment. But the thing that I was thinking about the most, and this is because of it's like the overlap of this show and its DNA with Parks and Recreation, is the flu episode of Parks and Rec. When Leslie is like trying to go about her day with terrible flu, including one of these like sort of town meeting, you know, sort of moments. So I was thinking about Leslie Knope a lot in this episode. Also on like the movie front, like thinking about like something like Mandy, you know, like a horror movie that is very like drug focused. I think often about Mandy. Or like the unbearable weight of massive talent, like the whole Nick Cage oeuvre.

45:31Joanna Robinson:Why not? You know, it's all it's all. Whether he's literally or just kind of metaphorically taking drugs is always happening at basically every point in time. It's true. Well, did you have a favorite? My favorite sort of not just the cutting in and out of time, which I thought was so good. Yes. But the way that the lights like went down and came up on various sequences to sort of take you in and out of time, I thought was so artistically like really interesting. What did you what did you like? It's the kind of thing, too, where when other shows attempt to do these sorts of time jumps, it can feel clunky in the edit.

46:03Yeah. And it really does take like a very particular kind of touch to make it feel organic, to make it feel germane to the story, to make it feel like, again, that you are in for an artistic process and not just like, hey, we're trying to do David Lynch or whatever. It's like this did feel so cohesive in a way that I think it's just like cinematically very impressive.

46:20Joanna Robinson:Yeah. All of the buttons into, I don't know if you can button into a scene, but all of the lines into the scene, like stop yelling at me, Tom, or like just give me a name or like, you know, whatever the case may be. I thought that was really, really good. Chris Fleming is here. Chris Fleming, are you a Chris Fleming fan? I wasn't too familiar before this episode, but I've gone a little down the rabbit hole. He's so fun here. as Todd O 'Connor, a shaman slash drug dealer. I love that reveal when Patricia's like, Todd O 'Connor? Yeah. He's like, hey, Patty. Chris Leving's really funny. I think he's a great comedian.

47:00Joanna Robinson:I don't think I've ever seen him act before. And not that this was like Chekhov or anything like that, but I thought he was like really good. And it reminded me a lot, again, of Parks and Rec when you would like bring in people that I knew for like comedy to do these like fun, quirky characters. I really hope we see Todd again, you know, and his lizard. Is that a lizard? I think it was an iguana. Iguana, yeah. She has wanderlust. She has wanderlust. She's getting 50. I thought he was so funny. I thought he was really good. Here's the thing. He is very funny. And like in a vacuum, I really like those scenes.

47:28I would say of all the actors and characters we've seen so far, he felt the least of Widow's Bay to me. There was something about it that was like, and it's drawn and structured to be like, this is a distinct hallucinogenic experience throughout this episode. But something about his energy was just like a little different. Not in an unwelcome way, but distinct from the other townspeople. Maybe deliberately.

47:47Joanna Robinson:Follow-up question. Have you met anyone who calls himself a shaman? Not enough. Yeah. Other than you. I've never once referred to myself as a shaman, nor would I. If you're not a shaman on this podcast, literally, what are you doing? You and I lived in Northern California, in the Bay Area. It's true. Heck, capital of the world, where a bunch of white dudes walk around calling themselves shaman in order to serve you ayahuasca. Like I've met so many white guys named Todd who are like, I'm a shaman. Come have an ayahuasca ceremony in my rec room. Like it's it's a peril of the North Bay, I should say.

48:20I have not partaken. But I mean, speaking to our issues of control, I'm not doing ayahuasca.

48:25Joanna Robinson:No, no, no. But I would love to be somebody's spirit guide or just, you know, a hand to hold on their journey. You know, do a better job than Patricia. I would hope. I would hope. Just don't open the door. I want to open the door. I mean, they just abandoned Tom so quickly at every opportunity. But Trisha at least had the excuse of like, she's like wanted for questioning. You know what I mean? Like she cannot say no to that. But like leaving him with Dale, presumably not telling Dale what's going on. Dale has no idea. And he's very worried for understandable reasons. When he screams, it's really good.

48:58Why can't Tom just go home? He's sick today. You know, is that out of the realm of possibility?

49:03Joanna Robinson:That's why they put him in the car with Rosemary. But again, I would not put him in a car with Rosemary. Oh, I don't think anyone put him in the car with Rosemary. Because it takes, if I remember correctly, it takes place after, not to step on our future segments, but my favorite bit of physical comedy from Matthew Rhys, which is the slow way he slinks across the wall and then bolts out the front door. But Patricia's still tethered to him. Are they literally tethered at that point? Yeah, she gets jerked out after him. But maybe he's separated. I don't know. No, I think he jerks her out and she's like, we're too busy putting him in a car with Rosemary and take him home but like that's not what I would do with Tom if I were in charge I just assumed he popped up in the middle of the road and Rosemary's like okay here here let me take you home I also want to shout out Patricia before they go over to Todd O 'Connor's shaman den and can I just say that his I forget what he called it the like the peace center the peace center it's fucking perfect that's what like every rec room that a white guy named Todd who's like come to ayahuasca at my house like that's what it looks like a single lava lamp one magic eye one magic eye And a mattress with some loose blankets and an iguana.

50:05Joanna Robinson:When Tom blows the phone call to him and they have Patricia do it. And she essentially does the Han Solo like, we're all fine here. How are you? We're in conversation anyway. Yeah. Really funny. Really good. Anything else you want to shout out before we get to our categories? Again, I really like this episode. I think it just has the unfortunate placement of coming after four. And so I love a trip episode as we discussed in general. I love what this means for Tom and kind of like the weird, creepy, dark places we explore as a result of it. and it's certainly setting up a lot of pretty dark roads we can go down over the rest of the season.

50:37Joanna Robinson:I thought the fight with Evan was really good. That's a real fight that they're having inside of this episode. He's being like a real dick, Evan. This is an age where you just have the hardest time seeing outside yourself in general, but he knows enough to say like, hey, didn't your friend just die? But also is being like a real asshole to his dad specifically. That's the only line delivery from this actor that I'm like, I would have had him say it slightly more sympathetically. Because him being like a real shit and being like, is this how the phones work? Perfect and really funny. Very funny.

51:10Joanna Robinson:But like, wasn't he your friend? Like, said with like a little bit of a grin was very weird. That being said, you're trying to impress an off-island girl. Yeah. And I have some theories about these off-island girls, by the way. But you're trying to impress an off-island girl. And your dad comes up and does this. Maybe I spoke too soon about the physical comedy. All the way around the outside of the car. Yeah. I would say fuck you to my dad if I were stewing in that mortification. If you knew he was grieving? If you knew maybe his only friend just died? Yes. Okay, fair enough. If I'm a teenager and I'm embarrassed, yes.

51:49That's fair.

51:49Joanna Robinson:There's nothing stronger than burning shame. A teen scorned. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Nas Energy. introducing new NOS Energy Grand Prix Guava for those that want to be fueled up and fired up with 100 mile an hour tropical tasting power. Ignite your taste, start your engine, shift your flavor to high gear with new NOS Energy Grand Prix Guava. Hit the street, grab a can and get after it. It's true. All right, well, let's go to our categories, which will allow us to talk even a little bit more about these episodes before we head out of here. Best bit of lore, got a lot of lore. Again, these are like incredibly short, funny, dense episodes while and we're getting lower downloads as we go.

52:30Joanna Robinson:What did we learn that you thought was most interesting? I think it's got to be Sarah Westcott Warren's creepy diary. And I mean, just plugging it right back in. Torn page and all incredible work. But you and I have been talking about are we going to get a full on flashback episode with how much like the founders have been mentioned, maybe even more than the boogeyman. And it seems like we're going to get some glimpse of that life in that past eventually. I think we saw. So the opening of episode five. Yes. Is a grubby man in what looks to me like period clothing in the woods scrabbling for. That's not Toby Huss.

53:05Joanna Robinson:No. Like scrabbling for some mushrooms. In the snow. In the snow. Don't eat the spooky mushrooms. Or if you want LASIK for your third eye, eat the spooky mushrooms. I don't know. It doesn't seem worth it. I wouldn't do it, but I would be interested in someone else doing it. My third eye is already wide open. I'm good on the mushroom front. No, it's not. Going back through the footage, I think that's Hamish Linklater, who is in this season and based on portraiture, I believe is playing the founder, Richard Warren. So like the next episode is called Our History. I would not be surprised if it takes us into a flashback episode.

53:39It certainly seems like it. I mean, we already have, you know, the weird cylinder around his neck. What do you think is in there?

53:44Joanna Robinson:I do know it's heartbeats in the cylinder my husband wears around his neck. And then when she's like, but he's here, so JK, LOL, I'm going to bed. Really funny. Heartbeats in the cylinder. Are they going to dig him up? Well, that's the implication from Wick, right? That's what Wick wants to do, for sure. Let's just dig up this grave. Let's get in that cylinder. Let's see what's going on. The idea of the true sight with the mushrooms. I also want to shout out in the spell book once its true face is revealed. Yeah. The sea hag is in there. Oh. So like, I'm glad we broke the spell by burning the book, but also was there good information in that book that we could have used before.

54:19Oh, you want to use it for good.

54:20Joanna Robinson:I mean, I'll, it'll be fine. Rob, I'm very responsible. Not at all emotionally vulnerable to manipulation. I'll be fine. The last segment of this podcast is you outlining what you like and don't like about yourself. That's what we're coming back to. It's one line for like and it's 10 lines for don't like and don't worry about it. And then the boogeyman intel. Anything else you want to say on the lore front? I think that's the biggest stuff for me is mostly what's going on with the diary and what it's positioning for us as far as like grave robbing goes. Favorite city employee. How is it not Patricia?

54:49Literally every week.

54:50Joanna Robinson:Yeah, but if it's not Patricia. I think if it's not Patricia, it has to be Rosemary. Tell me why it's Rosemary this week for you. She wants to be supportive, but she has a few qualms. She's a scratcher lady. Like nothing could be more true than Rosemary loves a scratcher. I love that like Tom caused horrible damage inside the gas station. He's banned for life. She said something about driving the car again. So the way in which the car is like at an angle and the door is wide open and something like that seems like it was Tom based. But she's still going to get her scratcher time in like not to be deterred.

55:24The money's not going to win itself. Exactly.

55:26Joanna Robinson:I'm going to give it to Dale. Shout out, Dale, for the DJing. Yes. And then, I mean, spoiler alert for my like favorite spooker, haunter, scare, fright. Dale with the blacked out eyes. Oh, my God. Audio. And I think that Jeff Hiller has an incredible face. I think he did something like super weird with his tongue to make him look like especially horrifying. It wasn't even mismatched audio. It was like he was doing a weird tongue thing, but also just like not speaking at all. Haunting. Horrifying. Horrifying. So I'm giving it to Dale. Between the DJing and that. Those two characters, I think, just in terms of temperament and personality, they've had very limited screen time over the course of this season.

56:05But when you think about who would be going along for the ride as Patricia is like, Like, give me these dead crows. And also, here's 900 songs with which to DJ this party. It's like, Dale is just like, go along to get along enough to want to partake in it. And Rosemary is just kind of like, gruff and mildly annoyed enough that she would do it anyway.

56:24Joanna Robinson:But also, she's like, she knows the sea hag lore. Like, Rosemary knows a lot. Is like, lock Tom in that room. It's true. You know, she knows a lot. Getting that crawl space. She's seen a lot. She cannot, you cannot faze her. No. She's just seen too much. so if you put a headdress on with some antlers the headpiece reveal is so good fucking wonderful it's so good when you rewatch it she's like I'd consider headpiece is like what she says to refer to the tiara and it's just a perfect word choice because like I was like yeah get that dumb fucking tiara off your head well especially when Chris and the mean girls were like mocking her I was like what does she have on her head it's a tiara turns out it's not well it is of a kind just a little more antlered than you might expect it's a little more yellow jacket antler queen stuff.

57:07Joanna Robinson:Okay. Favorite obvious joke. It's the rhythm of the night. I mean, the way it comes back in on that. Come on, it comes back for the credits. Like, it is an incredible choice and honestly, like, does have a certain witchy power to it. It's an absolute bop. I don't know what, like, Corona and all of them were channeling when they wrote it and created it in the first place, but it has it has a certain power. It has a certain, like, You think there were bone fragments in their mortar and pestle when they wrote that song? I think the entire wave of, like, euro house music that permeated the United States specifically in the 90s all feels mythical to me.

57:43Joanna Robinson:I think also, yeah, it's like got that chanting quality the same way that earlier he plays Let's Dance about David Bowie, right? So like, you know, which is just like an invocation of the kind. David Bowie could have been a witch. I would support it. Probably was. Patricia, for me, Patricia's circling her shoulders first in the drawing in the book. Straight to the shoulders. I was like, what? Is that a posture? I need to like, you know, work on my posture. Is that a posture comment? I don't know. And then she just circles like nine other things. But it's just like starting with the shoulders is really funny to me.

58:14I mean, we all have things we hate about ourselves. But specifically people who have been so locked in on their shoulders or I hear people be like, oh my God, I hate my calves. I'm like, I mean, no offense.

58:24Joanna Robinson:No, it's often because someone has said something to you once ever. It's probably Chris. And like forever you're like, my earlobes are larger than other people's earlobes. Oh no. Okay, favorite throwaway joke. This one's a real throwaway, but it made me laugh a lot. And it's when the janitor comes into City Hall during Tom's trip and says, oh, somebody's got a full belly. You had a lot to eat today to the trash can. So funny. It doesn't apologize. It's like, oh, are you okay? I didn't know you were here. Yeah, really funny. Really, really good. This is less of like a throwaway joke and I guess more of like a delivery.

58:58Joanna Robinson:But again, shout out Dale. Shout out Jeff Hiller. When Patricia asked how many RSVPs are and he hands her a piece of paper, And she's like, there are zero. You could have just said zero. And he just says very faintly, I didn't want to. I didn't want to. People pleaser Dale. Doing his best, even in a dark moment. I have like 50 honorable mentions for this. I also have a few hippies. It's ridiculous. I think the illustrations in the self-help book about the perfect party was all like the people having the time of their lives dressed in exquisite cocktail attire. And then there's a giant pile of cocaine on the table.

59:29Well, you know. It's what facilitates these things. The shoulders, of course. The speed with which Patricia shoves her fingers straight down Tom's throat when he wants to purge the mushrooms. Like no hesitation whatsoever. This is why you need a Patricia in your life. You need that person in your corner.

59:45Joanna Robinson:Absolutely. What else do you have, Jo? Lucy Fours is the name of the author of the book. There's also Four Quarters, like a little illustration of the Four Quarters on the front of the book when it's in self-help mode. Even just out with the old, in with the you, I would love to see the whiteboard of alternative self-help books that they came up with. in episode five when they're when tom checks in on the funeral and you're just hearing this guy tell this anecdote and afterwards someone says just a reminder it's not mandatory that you speak it's not um similarly sort of off camera uh when patricia's trying to get people to stay at the party and she's like i'm sure the doctor has some fun like medical stories and he's like i'm off the clock and then ruth chimes in she's like i have one it started in the foot i also wrote this down Ruth, again, is just batting a thousand.

1:00:33Every time she pops up, every time she shows up to be like, yeah, I'm going home at three. I'm sorry.

1:00:37Joanna Robinson:Ruth Rosemary Dale. What a crew. The only other one I had was when Patricia is crying in the kitchen and someone busts in and she turns it into a fake yawn to try to hide her crying. That's some next level Babadooking, I think. Is it? Yeah, to cover your cry with a yawn. What should you cover it with? What's the appropriate thing? Well, she's right at the fridge. I would just whip the door of the fridge open and like Mrs. Delphire my way through it. You know what I mean? I'm just imagining her with the full antler regalia attempting to do the cry-yawn and this woman's like, what the hell is happening in here?

1:01:10Would you have wanted to get like a full

1:01:11Joanna Robinson:sort of flash through the... I mean, like thinking about... It would have been funny. I guess the whole town is wired for video surveillance. Interesting. But like the reveal of Patricia sitting at that... CCTV. Yeah. Yeah. Sitting at the table reading the grimoire until like four in the morning or whatever. But like... to see the grimoire in her hands or to see the antlers, you know, like to rewatch the episode. We should say, just in case people are like, you missed it or we didn't. We didn't. During the dance in the bar, there's like in the mirror and then one shot of everyone standing there with their mouth up.

1:01:46Joanna Robinson:But I just wanted to say it so people were like, did you miss this? We did not miss that. What is it that's so fundamentally creepy about people with their open maws? You know, it's just, it's scary in a way I can't articulate and I don't really know why. It's like, to me, it goes back to like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. That's like a body snatcher, like the point in the. Oh, very the faculty, too. It's like all the tentacly things coming out. Honestly, you're with us. Always. Always. All right. Favorite horror movie reference slash Easter egg. For this, it's sort of the subversion of our expectations around Reverend Bryce, where when he's introduced into the story, specifically as Tom's friend, it's like, I think one of two things is going to happen.

1:02:25Either he will be the one to give Wick and Tom and their crew the download on like, either severely or maniacally. Right. What is happening on the island? Here's the history. Here's what I have discovered. Or he will perform at least one exorcism. Right. But no, he gets the chance to do none of those things. Out of commission. Another terrifying visual of him having hung himself or just be hung on the back of the door. Oh, yeah. I mean, it just, the idea that it makes you wonder, like, what could this man have possibly seen that would lead him to this end? Maybe even enough to want to take some spooky mushrooms yourself just to find out.

1:02:59Joanna Robinson:Yeah, what did he see down that well? I don't want to know what he saw down the well. I think it's going to come back. For me, I have nothing better than our listener's suggestion of Patricia's wardrobe. I think the Carrie Shelley Duvall sort of like invocation there. All right, best haunt, scare, spook, or fright? I already said it was Dale with his blacked out eyes and unsynced voice or not synced at all. What do you have? For me, it is whatever is happening with Lauren and that very brief visual we get of her after she's been brought in and seen by the doctor, maybe still with child maybe Evan's already been born but it's like her sitting on the bed mute and like vacant and kind of possessed at the same time is just like I think her head at just like a slight horror movie angle I was shocked to see that this actress Meredith Casey who I think is also a comedian does not have an extensive acting history because she has like popped up again in like a hallucinogenic dead wife sort of way mostly to date but like this is a physical performance even in that split second that I think is just the creepiest image that the show has shown us so far.

1:03:59Very tough. Very impressive, very scary. I'm terrified of everything that it portends.

1:04:03Joanna Robinson:We did ask for a listener suggestion for categories. And though I did not officially like add any, our listener Faith suggested creepiest blink and you'll miss it moment. That's probably the reflections I would think, right? I was thinking it was reflections, but also in episode four, when Patricia first brings the book home, she puts it on her bedside table and she puts her mug of tea on top of it. Yeah. And then she goes to like do something and it's just like all one shot and when she comes back into frame, the mug of tea is no longer on top of the book in a sort of like read me kind of way.

1:04:37Joanna Robinson:The book is like get this mug of tea off of me. I'm not a coaster. Read me. I thought that was a really cool moment. I also like her reading the book at the picnic table and all the bikes colliding around her. Yeah, the fights breaking out. New England's best kept secret a moment where you thought, huh, would it actually be nice to live here? Okay, so the circumstances were not ideal. Yeah. But the bonfire at the beach. That could have been really nice. That could have been a really nice time. I really agree. Cocktails at Patricia's. Yeah. A nice little dance and hang. And then off to the beach for a bonfire.

1:05:06That's a wonderful night. I have a marketing note for Patricia. Okay.

1:05:09Joanna Robinson:If you are not, you have no fault of your own. Perhaps the most popular person on the island. Don't put it on the invite. Don't say cocktails with Patricia. Yeah. Just say it's unsealed cocktails. Like, you know, come have some drinks on us. The town. Sure. Free drinks. Sure, it's animal blood, but I wouldn't say cocktails with Patricia. When Chris is like, you mean the municipal event? Well, here's the thing. Who are you fooling? They know that she works at City Hall. They know that she would be involved. Could be drinks with Dale's. I mean, with all due respect to Dale's, is Dale any more popular than Patricia is?

1:05:43Yeah. Maybe so.

1:05:45Joanna Robinson:I definitely think it. The Reese piece. Something about Matthew Reese that you want to shout out here. Physical comedy. Yeah, episode five is ridiculous. A ridiculous... showcase for Matthew Reese. Trying to make himself vomit when he can't. He's just like, it's really funny. Really incredible. I mean, he's basically like Charlie Chaplin in this episode. Like the physical comedy beats, like the wide eyed, like wonder and terror and everything happening around him. The absolutely possessed way that he lunges for his loafer in the convenience store as Amber is the color of your energy plays. Which comes back at the closing credits.

1:06:21Joanna Robinson:I love that Amber is the color of your energy. Yeah. The way he looks into the car, say goodnight to Little Miss was really funny. His clapping during the meeting with the townspeople. It was so strange. I was like trying to analyze like why does this look so strange? He's just incredible. He's a master. The root of the matter. What is Stephen Root doing in this episode that you want to? I mean, Wick and Jer. A little history. Kept me out too late. I mean, they had something going on and maybe what's old is new again. You know, I think they could have it, especially if Jer is going to be part of the gang and helping them investigate get some spooky artifacts.

1:06:53Honestly, I love seeing a version of Wick that is still kooky and driven and weird.

1:06:57Joanna Robinson:Yeah. But him getting to be like spirit detective Wick. Mm-hmm. Different side of him that I really appreciated. I will say Wick and Jer shot to the top of my ship. Like if Patricia and Tom are on the shipping list for me, it's like Wick and Jer number one. Who else is on the list? Evan and the off-island girl who might be also the sea hag. I don't know. Is she the sea hag? I don't know. Who are these off-island girls? Who are they? They're just off-island girls. They could be, but like... Joe, not every girl is a hag. I mean, something to aspire to. So the shipping list, I mean, yeah, there's Tom and Patricia, we addressed that.

1:07:32I think a lot of people probably will be invested in that one. Tom's face and the sea hag potentially returning. Who's to say what those kids could get up to?

1:07:40Joanna Robinson:Tom and his dead ghost wife? I mean, anything is possible on this island. She could return in many terrifying forms. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're rooting for them. We are. We want those two crazy kids to work it out, right? Evan. Here's what I'll say about Evan. Yeah. And you're right to call out that, like, wasn't he your friend. The press a button once the system delivery was, like, really funny about the phone. Incredibly funny. But when Tom says, I see you calculating how much you can get away with, which this actor had to convey with just a look, and he really did. He does. He really, really nailed it.

1:08:13Joanna Robinson:I just think he's fantastic. I think he's so good. His physical comedic performance has been great all season. He also did the exact thing that I remember doing when I was a kid and went into my dad's office, which is I open every drawer and see what's in there. And we found in one of my dad's drawers, like a couple of candy bars. And we're like, he has a candy drawer in here. Oh, you say we. It's you and your brother. I mean, my brother both going through it simultaneously. That's the kind of bit of family lore. You just never let down. I went through everything in my parents' closet, like constantly.

1:08:40Joanna Robinson:How could you not? You just got to see what's going on in there. But we're omitting what is the clear Evan contribution of these episodes. while I'm walking away. Can I just yell, fuck you pig for the girls? Because here, Joe, on this podcast, we always say, fuck you pig for the girls. We really do. We do. But you're being like, no, the fuck you cannot. That's really good. Kevin Carroll's really good on this show. All right. Theory. My only theory is these off-island girls. I'm looking askance. Really? I mean, a single girl shows up in the story and it must be her fault. Who are they? It must be their fault, but who are they?

1:09:12It's true. They don't seem to have parents. They don't have any reason that they've explained for being. there for the holiday.

1:09:17Joanna Robinson:Granted that it's only been two days. Like when I thought it was like a week, you know what I mean? When I thought it was like the first and the fourth or something like that, I'm like, how long are these girls here on this island? But if it's just been a couple days, like, okay. I think it's only been a couple days and we live in a world now where this is the new Martha's Vineyard. People are just showing up. They're luxuriating in the fireworks. Yes. If it was just old Widow's Bay, the Off-Island girls are not showing up. But they're showing up here for the fireworks and those fireworks are going to happen.

1:09:43Joanna Robinson:And they did. and they did alright anything else you want to say about Widow's Bay just one more thing Joe the sacred geometry of outlining your hand on a piece of paper a great recurring gag in episode 5 and specifically I would say how seriously Patricia ponders the drawing in the first place really made it for me well also just the cut to the fact that Tom was doing the same thing yes right also it made me think of you because like very recently you invoked hand turkeys I did would you like to explain why Would you like to explain why? I would. I was wearing, you know, a warm colored orange shirt on this couch.

1:10:20Was surrounded by these very tasteful pillows that are here at Spotify Studios. And I was looking a little like a hand turkey with my plumage. So, you know, it's just, it's been in the ether over here.

1:10:30Joanna Robinson:Sometimes you're the Babadook, sometimes you're the hand turkey. You know, these are the realities we live in. Thank you to Mary Cheap and Carpenter for supporting this episode. All right, well, that is it for episodes four and five of Widows Bay. We'll be back for Euphoria. We'll be back with Friday Night Lights. And more Widow's Bay. Thank you to Dev Rinaldo, Jacob Cornett, to everyone at Sycamore Studios, to Kai Grady from afar. He's in Texas. And thank you to the many blackbirds who died to make this episode possible. Thank you to the witches. And thank you to you, Rob Mahoney. Thank you, Joe.

1:11:01Joanna Robinson:In that order. Bye.

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