Phonk: the biggest genre you've (probably) not heard of; Only 20% of the 2025 UK Top 100 were performed by UK artists; What is 'radio plugging'?; and your ashes in an urn that's also a speaker...

18:02Stu:I think it found that the biggest chunk was from people's own playlists that they made and that was about 42 % of listening from people's own playlists. Now that's still, you might turn on your playlist of the favourite songs this year and then let it wash over you. So you've actively created the playlist but you may be passively listening to it. But around 20 % came from playlists created by the streaming services where it was ping play. And around 11 % came from those autoplay or radio style features where it literally is pit a button, start the streaming music. So about a third, I think, in those days was the point.

18:34Stu:But what we don't know is how that's changed. But I think in the last two to three years, quite a few of the new features launched by streaming services have been about making it easier to listen passively, in a way. Like the new AI playlist where you type in a text prompt saying, I'm going to a gym and want some up-tempo, join bass music. And it makes you a playlist and you play it. So my instinct would be that maybe it's increased in that passive listening, but no one actually puts out those figures.

19:00Steve:The thing is, with the increase, though, in passive listening, and if it is getting to the levels that some people are reporting, there's at least two problems with this potentially, I think. One, obviously, this puts tremendous power in the hands of the algorithms that help dictate what people get to hear. And two, then it's the way the algorithms work and which artists they lean towards. Because that's the worry, I think. Because within the UK-speaking pop music territories, everyone, apart from America, seems to be doing less well in terms of promoting their own music. because it's the big artists from America who come around time and time and time and time again, Taylor Swift, Sabrina Carpenter, all these people will be coming around constantly on a passive streaming circuit.

20:03Steve:So that's the worry though, isn't it? Because then if we are, and I know they're saying, okay, there's Spotify saying, for instance, there is a slight rise in UK music, but it's nowhere close. Our representation of the music in the UK is nowhere close to what it is in other countries. In Italy, 80 % of the music which is being pumped out is Italian, but unfortunately we're up against the States. That's a problem.

20:33Stu:Well, that's it. You're seeing a lot of positivity in Italy, in France and Germany, because there they've got thriving local scenes doing very well. I mean, I had a few things to say about this. So one of them is that these streaming algorithms, they are completely mysterious. We don't know how they work. Even their companies, I'm not sure how they know how they work. I had a funny thing once. A big newspaper site changed its website address and had a meeting with Google to say, what does this mean? Are we going to suddenly disappear off your search engine? And essentially the Google guys were like, we're really interested to find out too.

21:06Stu:We have no idea what our algorithm will do in response to this. And to some extent, streaming is the same. This is a mysterious beast. But if you listen to loads of new British music, you'll get recommended more of it. If you listen, if you hammer Taylor Swift, you'll get recommended more US megastar music. So to some extent, it's going to be different for every individual and it's very hard to measure, but there's no way of measuring what's being recommended to who, if that makes sense. And that's one of the reasons it's such a difficult subject because there aren't hard and fast figures saying, yes, Apple Music recommends 75 % of its recommendations are American bands.

21:42Stu:because it's individual. So that's one thing that's difficult. And the other thing I think is the different kinds of passive listening. So if you are listening to just the autoplay feature and you're getting loads of Sabrina Cuppin or Taylor Swift, that's one thing. If you're following a playlist that's like some human within Spotify or Apple Music picking the latest great British bands, you're going to hear all of those in your passive listening cycle. So to some extent, it depends where you're listening and how you're listening. So it's very, very complicated, if that makes sense. Which, to come back to this blog post by Annabelle, it's hard to know what to do about it.

22:23Stu:Because one thing people suggest is there should be quotas on this sort of thing. The government should place quotas and say, Spotify, you have to play this much British music to your listeners. And that is unlike radio, where you can measure what Radio 1 plays in a week, or TV where you can say how much percentage of shows on the BBC are from British people. I don't know how you're ever going to be able to measure this in streaming. So it's very hard to know how, from the outside, you change this, if that makes sense.

22:53Steve:Yeah, what can be done? I mean, that's the next thing, isn't it? Any thoughts on this, by the way? Drop us a line. The email address is coming up later. I just, I think for starters, that needs to be a conversation about it. I think that more people need to be aware. And because if we have got to the stage where of the top 40 singles um for 2025 within within the top 40 there's only 10 tracks featuring uk acts and it might not be our time you know we might is it too arrogant to believe that britain should still rule pop music globally but and and may but but you would hope that we we were producing enough uk acts to at least have more than 10 in the top 40.

23:36Steve:If you extend that out, according to Annabella's piece, the UK top 100, only around 20 % of the tracks were performed by British artists. So there must be something we can do before it starts getting worse. We end up like where Australia are, where it's estimated that for every$10 spent on music or put into the streaming pot,$9 goes straight out, straight away, leaves the country immediately. And that's not a position we want to be in. And, yeah, how do we promote, as you say, it's difficult when we don't with the mysterious algorithms, but how do we promote more British music in a way that, you know, I mean, I don't want to bias.

24:30Steve:I don't want to dictate what people necessarily listen to, but the question I think we're all asking is, does it work properly? Are we being unfairly locked out? Is there something we can do about it?

24:45Stu:Well, also, and you mentioned this idea about we need to have a discussion. This is something that's happened in Australia where when people started talking about it and almost also politicians started kind of rumbling about maybe we need to have quotas do something. Spotify as one of the biggest things, it pushed back quite hard and said look we do a lot to promote Australian acts and look we're launching a new thing now called Turn Up Oz which is a campaign to kind of push Australian music and I think the other day I can't find a stat but they talked about how it created I think it was 223 million more streams of local music but they only launched this campaign because they were under pressure from this discussion so I think that is maybe a positive thing is that the more people talk about this and say, what can we do?

25:29Stu:It does encourage the streaming services to say, well, actually, here's something we could do and we can actually do more and then it can work. So I think that's part of it. I think the positive way forward is actually, yeah, talking about it, raising it, asking hard questions. And then the streaming services, I think they understand that they don't want to have governments telling them what to play and how much to play. So they will find other things they can do and that hopefully will benefit.

25:56Steve:no quietest everywhere uh we did promise we would answer at least one uh of our listener questions this week so i think we can just about fit this in a question from listener liam from bolton who writes hi stew and steve really enjoying the show bless you thank you very much for listening um i have a question uh steve about plugging it's a phrase i hear often but it all seems a bit mysterious i understand it's someone pitching an artist to a dj or producer but how does it work why do artists need plugging and how is this process different to say you steve discovering an artist or a song via other channels or an artist contacting you directly thank you very much uh liam i did shy away from this question for a little while because anyone who knows me will know i have quite a lot to say on the subject of radio plugging and what makes a good radio plugger uh but i think maybe we'll that will keep for uh for another day before before we enter that particular minefield but it's a good question so look i'll try to explain as simply uh as i can because there are different forms of radio plugging so a radio plugger sometimes known as a radio promotions person it is basic essentially they are the representative of a band or of a or an artist when it comes to all things radio so this could be at one end of the scale fielding calls from radio shows and you know emails incessant emails uh asking one of your artists to do something to come in i mean it it might be um that you know it's it might be your job just to be the person who says no if you're dealing with a very famous act and then you know and then it's organizing interviews or sessions or obviously the further uh the further down the scale we get Once you get to new acts, basically, if you're working a brand new band, you're just trying to generate some interest, really, for your act amongst DJs or radio show producers.

27:55Steve:But as I say, top end of the scale, if you take the Foo Fighters that just returned with a new single or someone like the Arctic Monkeys or Fontaine's DC, once everyone sits there, there's a new record coming. So once the release date of the new record is set, then the radio plugger will sit down and discuss a plan with the band or probably the manager. And together, then they will work out the best way to maximise coverage of that record on the radio. And that will be obviously across numerous radio stations. So you're trying to balance out your coverage across various radio networks. So they'll probably offer the first play of a single to one station.

28:38Steve:and another station might get a session, then they'll work out who's going to get the interviews and when they'll run on air to, as I say, have maximum impact and provide a good spread of coverage. While at the same time, as I say, because Dave Grohl can't be everywhere all the time, you will, as the radio person, probably be the one who's gently declining offers from stations who aren't deemed to be a priority at that point. That's the top end. at the other end of the scale a lot of pluggers work is involved in attempting to help launch new artists or help emerging artists and obviously that's much harder isn't it because radio stations like booking big hitters they're less interested in a group who'll sell 50 tickets on a tuesday night in hull because they're not a big draw for their listeners so um i won't i won't name it i I won't decide a specific example, but say, for instance, hypothetically, you have a band that had an EP out, now they're releasing a new single.

29:41Steve:It is then the plugger's job to what they call service the record to anyone in radio that they think might be interested and then attempt to build up support for the group by making a case as to why the DJ should play the record or possibly you then get to the point of trying to persuade the music team, the playlist committee at whatever radio station it is, that they've reached the stage and made a record which deserves to go on the playlist. So it's basically putting the artist in front of radio and then trying to explain what's good about them. That's it. That's radio plugging. Why do, sorry, Liam, I'm answering to a couple of other bits of your question.

30:30Steve:Why do bands need pluggers? Well, if, as I say, you're a reasonably successful band, then you'll need someone to act as a bridge between you, the band, and all the people at radio who want you to do stuff. But also, you know, you need them sometimes just for their expertise in, you know, guarding your profile at radio. So that's top. And if you're a new band, you know, pluggers can be helpful in bringing artists to radio's attention. And the reason why people sometimes turn to pluggers is in the hope that the radio plugger, because you, the artists, don't know anyone in radio. In theory, the radio plugger has built relationships with producers or DJs to the point where they can just email them and say, look, I found this group.

31:17Steve:I think they're good. Give them a listen. That's the idea. I mean, radio is inundated with music now, I'm sure you can imagine. So it's how do you get in front of a producer or DJ? Well, it's employing someone who has the right contacts and can put a word in for you. That's the theory. But, of course, it does cost you money, and there is no guarantee of success really at the bottom end of the scale. If you've made a really good record, then you've got a chance of getting on the radio. If you've made an interesting record you might have a chance of getting on the radio if you're in the right place at the right time and that's what I guess pluggers are trying to point out to people in the radio industry.

32:12Steve:But there's never really any guarantee, I don't think if you're a brand new act that someone's going to play your record even if it has been plugged to radio by someone you've employed to do it. But final question, how is this process different to Steve discovering an artist or a song via other channels or an artist contacting him directly? The answer is it's not really that different. I mean, I'm only talking purely from my own point of view. I can't speak for other DJs or producers and how they work, but obviously we get, as I say, an awful lot of music sent to us each week. even by radio pluggers.

32:53Steve:And when I say an awful lot, last week that was over 150 singles, of which I'll listen to the ones that have been sent to me by people I trust first. They get the first, right, we'll do those. And then obviously I do a lot of my own research online. Or often, you know, you bump into people at gigs who recommend artists to you or friends who I know in the industry, you know, managers or promoters. who also give you tips of things that they think are good or maybe going somewhere. And then there's the artists themselves who send in stuff. And I still get quite a lot of – I get emails, obviously, from artists at the BBC sending us music, but also still get quite a lot of physical records, CDs even.

33:44Steve:And I love nothing more than a nice letter from a band, if I'm honest, because a nice letter from a band handwritten if possible describing who they are and what they do just makes their music so much more human than your bog standard press release i think um so anyway music comes from it comes from all over the place um i mean in fact you know if um i don't know if this helps but if you look back over the past 10 years i was thinking about this this the this morning because we've just passed the 10th anniversary of me seeing idols for the first time but you go back over the past decade idols fontaines dc i mean more recently little granddad none of these groups had radio pluggers when i first started playing them so it's not essential for our show across the broader radio network you you might find that it's a bit different and you may well need a radio plugger to open the right doors for you um but as i say that's a conversation for another day i think of course i've got quite a lot i could say about pros and cons of radio plugging i think it will keep for now uh we're nearly out of time so finally for this week if you've come to the conclusion possibly from what you've heard in this show that you know spotify is helping or sometimes killing music well at least it's now giving us somewhere to store the

35:08Stu:ashes but there is a price Stuart there certainly is this is the eternal playlist urn which is an an actual urn that has a has a bluetooth speaker built into the lid and this is a marketing partnership with liquid death who I want to describe as fizzy water and I'd probably get in trouble for that there's probably some other highfalutin words to use about it but it's kind of fizzy water in a can isn't it liquid death okay um and they got in there so only 150 of these urns have been released and they cost$495 each. Okay. Which I'm thinking, okay, how many of those hundreds, because they've sold out, I think already.

35:46Stu:How many of what are people who actually said, yes, when I die, I want to store my ashes in a branded Bluetooth speaker. And how many of it's people going, ah, this might go for, go on for 300, you know, for a thousand dollars on eBay next week. So I'll buy one to speculate. But yeah, if, if you want to store your ashes in an urn with Spotify on it, you're too late, but you might be able to get one on eBay next week.

36:07Steve:And that's where we'll leave it. Thank you very much for listening. If you are enjoying the show, please do spread the word. You can also support us via Patreon. In fact, if you sign up to be a super fan, you can get to join us for our weekly lock-in where some of you get to stay behind after hours for an extra 15, 20 minutes of bonus material, which will include this week. Actually, based on that, we should do songs that we're going to have played at our funeral. uh also some reflections i imagine on the brits and one or two more observations about radio plugging possibly uh that's coming up if you'd like to gain access to the lock-in uh you can by becoming a super fan of the show at patreon.com slash the price of music uh alternatively uh as with liam um do get in touch with us if you've got any questions or anything which uh we might be able to explain from behind the scenes in the music industry.

37:04Steve:If there's anything that you've always thought, how does that work or what does that cost? We might be the people to give you the answer. We'll do our best. Drop us a line with any thoughts or questions. ThePriceOfMusicPodcast at gmail.com. That's ThePriceOfMusicPodcast at gmail.com. Until next week, take care. Cheerio. Goodbye.

37:42Outro Music