Can Young Men Find Happiness? (A Lost Boys Special)

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1:21Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great. Hey everyone, Scott Galloway here. As part of our Lost Boys series, today's episode is a conversation with Dan Harris, author of 10 % Happier. Dan joins Anthony Scaramucci and me to talk about the growing anxiety among young men and how mindfulness, self-awareness, and redefinition of masculinity can offer a path forward. Let's bust right into it.

1:56Welcome to Lost Boys. In this podcast, my friend, Professor Scott Galloway and I dig into the unique challenges young men are facing today and what we can do about it. In this episode, Scott and I talk with Dan Harris, the journalist and author of the best selling book, 10 % Happier. Dan is a smart guy who has put a lot of thought into how we can all manage the stress and anxiety in our lives. Something that's very important for young men today. We talk about the hit Netflix series everyone is talking about, Adolescents. And we get some great advice from Dan on how young men and all of us can be more socially engaged.

2:36Here's my conversation with Scott Galloway and Dan Harris. So joining us now on Lost Boys is Dan Harris. He's a former co-anchor of ABC's Nightline. He's also on the weekend edition of Good Morning America on ABC News. He spent over two decades reporting on major national, international events. A pivotal moment in his career was an on-air panic attack in 2004 that prompted him to embark on a journey of self-discovery, leading him to become a vocal advocate for meditation and mindfulness, particularly for skeptics of those things. He's the author of the bestselling book, 10 % Happier, How I Tamed the Voice in My Head, reduce stress without losing my edge.

3:22I must say to Dan and Scott, I have sent that book out to probably 50 people, Dan. I'm a huge fan of that book. And found self-help that really works, a true story. And he's also got an application out there, 10 % Happier Meditation app and podcast. So thank you for joining us, Dan. The topics, as I know Barbara has briefed you on, is our situation with America's men, you know, sort of the 18 to 35-year-old who's gone wayward. Scott's got wonderful statistics on this. But before I bring you in, I just want to go to Scott for a second about the challenges that young men are facing. Everyone is talking about it, Scott.

4:04I give you a lot of credit for this because you've been chipping away at this and now I'm starting to see a mushroom cloud of activity come out from you dropping the first bombs. I guess before we go to Dan, are we at an inflection point, sir, in terms of this issue? Well, that's a generous thing to say, but yeah. And I first brought this up five years ago and immediately the gag reflex was you're a misogynist because all the people on this pod have had so much unfair advantage for so long that there was a natural resistance to talking about the struggles of young men. Because let's be honest, we had a 3 ,000-year head start from 1945 to the next 60, 70 years.

4:49The greatest prosperity ever recognized in the modern economy was recognized in the U.S. and it was sequestered even further. All of that prosperity was crowded into the 30 % of Americans that had pale skin and outdoor plumbing. So naturally, people just weren't that empathetic. The conversation has changed so dramatically because the evidence, four out of five suicides are male, 12 times more likely to be incarcerated, three times more likely to be homeless or addicted. The data is so overwhelming. And the cohort I credit with that pivot in the conversation, the dialogue, it can be described in one word, mothers.

5:31feminists right wing left wing all have come together and said something is going on with my son and so the conversation has become a lot more productive i can't the difference between me going on a podcast and talking about this issue five years ago in the comments and the difference now is night and day so i think the i think the dialogue has gotten a lot more productive and I'll use this as a segue to ask Dan a question. Dan, you really have, to a certain extent, you know, we never talked about cancer, and then we started talking about cancer. I remember when my mom got breast cancer, I couldn't talk to my friends about it because it was embarrassing.

6:09And then we started talking about cancer openly, and it's been a huge unlock. And I think in the last 20 years, we've started talking about mental illness, and it's been a huge unlock. And one of the taboos that I think you have played a role in unlocking is men talking about anxiety. Because for a man to admit that he was having a panic attack made you less masculine, made you less strong. And you have done that. And the numbers, one in seven teens globally claim they have severe mental illness. People are having panic attacks. Without getting into details, I have someone in my life that is struggling with anxiety and panic attacks.

6:47Can you talk a little bit about not only you talk about how to address it, but if you've given any thought to what we can do as a society to try and stem the flow of anxiety, of depression amongst our young people. I know you have kids. Any thoughts? I do. I do have thoughts. This is just a huge topic. So I'm trying to figure out where to start. I do want to just double click on what that's such a douchey expression, but I'll use it anyway on on the point you just made, Scott, and about, you know, the need to rethink masculinity. And I know you've been working on a book along those lines and because I because I listen to you a lot.

7:31And I think it's incredibly important. And I think you're right. We're at a moment where it is. It's feeling more and more urgent. You may have already addressed this, but the, you know, the Netflix show Adolescence, which is just incredibly powerful and really goes right at these issues. So, yeah, I spent a lot of time thinking about this. And in terms of both men and boys and women and girls and everything in between, we we do have anxiety rising globally. And what can be done about it? Well, there are many, many things to say about this. But I would say the number one thing, and this is relevant to masculinity as well, is that we are isolated, lonely, disconnected, stuck in our own little worlds on our phones.

8:21And that is, I believe, one of the major contributors to this spike in anxiety we're seeing all over the place. We as a species did not get to the top of the food chain because we're the strongest. We have no talons, no wings, don't have sharp teeth. We're not particularly big when compared to other charismatic megafauna. We got to the top of the food chain because of our ability to cooperate, collaborate and communicate. All of that is militated against by most aspects of our modern culture, which emphasizes tech driven isolation, individualism. And this, if we don't have this social connection, if we don't have positive relationships, we wither.

9:06And to me, it just seems very clear that if we can get people to get more intentional about having positive relationships in their lives, it will go a long way toward addressing anxiety. How would you do that? Like what programs could we do such that? So first off, I agree. We're mammals. Anyone who has dogs, realize dogs when they're the worst thing you can do to a dog is leave it alone. You put an orca in a tank alone, it literally goes crazy. And I would describe us as that there's a 35 % uptick in social anxiety among young people with COVID lockdowns. I saw it with my youngest. Him not being, I thought he'd be fine.

9:42There's a chance to hang out with your parents and watch Netflix. He really struggled not being around a bunch of kids every day. I mean, really struggled. But what can we do? Recognizing we're mammals and people need to be around each other, especially young people. What do you think we can do to just get kids in the company of other kids? And here's just another stat. The number of kids, high school kids, that sees their friends every day has been cut in half. in the last 20 years. That's an incredible statistic, and it's incredibly disturbing. I am not, just to be clear, much of a policy thinker, a systems thinker.

10:23I'm much more about what can you as an individual do. So I'll just put that out there as a caveat before I answer your question. I think for a parent, it's about thinking this through very clearly and understanding that if you're not helping your kid get face time with other kids, you're hurting your child. Not deliberately, but once you know, you know, and you can take better steps to make sure that your kids are getting that face-to-face interaction. Now, if I'm directing my comments to somebody slightly older, a young man, or actually this could go for anybody who's feeling disconnected or lonely, the number one piece of advice is to volunteer.

11:08Get out there, do something useful for somebody else. This is the most empowering and ennobling thing. It reminds you of your own innate worthiness. It puts you in contact with other people. It's incredibly helpful. I want to talk about the toxic side of this, if you don't mind, Dan, but you're a social observer. It's the void. I mean, this is the theory I've tested on a few of our other guests. I want to get your reaction to it. It's the void getting filled by toxic masculinity. Is the void being getting, getting filled by hyper masculinity? I worry about that. You know, it's interesting, my own life, you know, I look at the culture and I see many examples of toxic masculinity.

11:57I don't love that phrase because I do feel like it has been weaponized a little bit, um, to make men feel bad about being men. So I think it's accurate. There is for sure a version of masculinity that is quite toxic. So it's technically an accurate term. But sometimes there's something about the dialogue that has, I think, made it harder to reach men because we've somehow sent the signal either explicitly or implicitly that you're wrong or bad for just having a penis. And so I do want to just signal that I'm not trying to be overly, and this is another word that I worry about using, but overly woke here when I talk about toxic masculinity.

12:47masculinity. I do see many, many avatars of unhealthy masculinity in the culture, the Tates, for example. But in my own life, yeah, I don't know if you guys know Strauss Zelnick, the very successful businessman. Yeah, sorry, were you going to say something? No, no, I'm just going to let you know, Dan Strauss is a very close personal friend of mine and for 25 years. Okay, so you and I are connected by one degree of separation. Strauss is a very good friend of mine for about a decade. And I've been recently doing his work. He worked out. He's the guy's almost 68. He's in incredible shape for any age.

13:26And he works out every day. He's got this thing called the program. And a lot of young men are in the program. And I go once in a while and meeting young men. And these are like finance. Let me stop you. So, Scott, do you know Strauss? If you don't know Strauss, he's take two entertainment. I do. Okay, good. He granted that thought. And he wrote a great book on this, by the way, on longevity, which I'd like to say that It's called Ageless Fitness. Exactly. I'd like to say that I adopted some of it, but I'm still eating junk food and fast food. But go ahead, Dan. You know, Strauss is not overly like finger wagging about like eating cookies.

14:05He eats cookies. See, it's more just like get get active, which I think is another, you know, get physically active. I think this is another great piece of advice for young men because it does put you in contact with other other people if you're doing it, you know, in a group setting. And it also is great for your mental health. But but having said that, it's through the program. I've met a lot of young like finance bros, guys who when I was growing up would have had, you know, a massive amount of casual misogyny just baked into their everyday conversation. And the young men I'm meeting are much more sensitive and that may, you know, sensitive in a good way.

14:42They're just they're really earnest and interested in talking about improving their own mental health. And and that may just be speak to the type of people that Strauss attracts. But it's interesting to me because I do look at the culture and I see to your question, Anthony, that that there are these great examples of how to do masculinity poorly. And then in just in in moving through the world, I see young men who are much less casually misogynistic than the the world that I grew up in. And frankly, I hate to say this, that I participated in. Yeah, I was just thinking, I grew up on I Dream a Genie.

15:22Yes, master, go to your bottle, Genie. I mean, I would say, given what we were fed as young men, it feels like we should get an Alan Alda award. Anthony's holding up an I Dream a Genie bottle. But also autographed by Barbara, see? Oh, wow. Yeah, so I have a free pass for my wife. This will probably get cut out of the thing. But just so you know, I have a free pass from my wife. I have dinner with her. I have dinner with Barbara once a year in June at the Beverly Hills Hotel in the Polo Lounge. Unfortunately, she brings her 92-year-old chaperone who happens to be her husband. But in any event, I thought you would enjoy that, Scott.

16:05I love that. Seriously? That's a flex. That is a flex. I mean, you know, Galloway, for somebody you're vintage, this is a huge flex, right? Let me just really name drop here. See this? No, that is very - All right, all right. I'm sure that's getting cut out, Harris, but I had to flex that on Galloway. He's got me by about six inches in height and God only knows what else. So I had to flex that on him. So Dan, returning to our regular schedule program here. So I'll paint a scenario for you. You're a 19 to 24 year old male. and you're still living at home, you're struggling. You find that you're having a tough time connecting with school, connecting with work, connecting with potential friends or romantic partners.

16:59And you find that your only kind of source of relief might be video games, isolation, maybe porn. And you might recognize that you're struggling with stress or anxiety and you get into social situations and you, you know, you get that feeling, your chest starts tightening, you start gulping for air. And all you can think about is just getting out of that situation back to where you're comfortable again. Try and advise that young man or young woman, we all struggle with, I have panic attacks. One out, I do 50 talks a year, era 0.66 % of the time, every 150 talks, I have a panic attack. I don't, I can't figure out why it happens, but it feels like I'm dying on stage in front of 400 people and I have to stop to talk and everyone freaks out and is worried.

17:52Um, advise a young man or a young woman who recognizes they're having this panic and this anxiety on specific, um, cognitive behaviors, practices that you have used that you think that they would benefit from? Well, one thing to say is if you're freaking out about exposing yourself to social situations and you're young, recognize that this is not your fault. First of all, you're not alone. You're not like uniquely dysfunctional. This is very, very common. And it's my generation, our generation, that created a world for you where you got insufficient training in how to do this. In part, this is massively exacerbated by COVID, but in part because we as grownups didn't really understand that we needed, we started helicopter parenting and we needed to create a world for you where you're out bumping up against other kids and getting scrapes and getting insults and learning how to build up your psychological immunity.

19:02And that's on us. And so what I want to first remove, hopefully, is the shame. And then second, and this goes to masculinity, and I know this is something you think about a lot, Scott. It's like rethinking what is masculinity. Strength is part of it, but what is real strength? Real strength, I like in Buddhism, and I try to practice Buddhism, that one of the ancient symbols is a lion, which is a great symbol of ferocity, but it has nothing to do with dominance. It has to do with the courage to face your own shit, to face your own mind. And that is what is required in order to do the work, to take the risk, to go out into social situations, which is going to make you uncomfortable, to make you gulp for air, possibly to provoke a starburst of self-critical thoughts in your mind.

20:02But that is courage. And how do you overcome fear? You face it in manageable little steps. So take a little risk. Divulge something personal to somebody you trust at work and see what happens. Go to the party that you otherwise wouldn't go to, but tell yourself you only have to go for five minutes. Baby steps of facing what scares you. And over time, it won't scare you as much. Tell us how you did it in your own life. That is real baller courage. Dan, you write beautifully about this. Give us a few examples of how you've done this in your own life. Well, I still have panic attacks. Right now, the big place of panic for me is claustrophobia.

20:50So I've had a lot of trouble over the last couple of years on elevators and airplanes. I, to a certain extent, blame COVID for this because when COVID hit, I moved to the suburbs. I wasn't in the city. I wasn't on elevators anymore and I wasn't flying. And then when I went back to all of that, I really started to struggle and panic feeds on itself. And so the only remedy is to face it, to actually put yourself in the situation that scares you. So I would literally ride elevators at the Westchester Mall with my shrink, who would help me, you know, see to work with cognitive behavioral therapy, which is a psychological term of art to face what was scaring me.

21:34to learn how to engage in supportive self-talk, to talk myself through it. And it really helped. And by the way, if you, we can go wherever you want here, but if you want a very specific answer to Scott's question earlier about cognitive behavioral therapy techniques to work yourself through the shit that scares you, whether it's social or anything else, I'm happy to talk about that because there's a lot to say there. Talk about it if you don't mind. We, many of us believe that we have to have an inner drill sergeant in order to succeed. If we, if somebody else talked to us the way we talk to ourselves, we would punch that other person in the face.

22:15And we believe consciously or subconsciously that we need this inner drill sergeant in order to get anything done. In fact, all the data show that an inner coach is much more likely to get you to your goals. And this is referred to in the psychological literature as self-compassion. So learning to talk to yourself the way you would talk to a good friend or to your kid or a mentee, there's a ton of data that shows that this is extremely helpful, especially in situations where you're scared. So you don't, I mean, it's very helpful to go into situations that scare you with a friend. And by the way, I would recommend that.

22:58But you can be your own friend in this regard. And it's slightly cheesy, but just learning to talk to yourself this way. And it just as a little technical tip here to use your own name when you're talking to yourself. So I just say, dude, like, dude, I'm getting on a plane. I'm worried about panicking in front of a bunch of strangers. Dude, like you can. This is just going to be a bunch of physical sensations, breathlessness, pounding in the chest that you have experienced a million times and you're still alive. You can deal with this. that ability to talk to yourself that way is a trainable skill for anyone and extremely helpful.

23:39We'll be right back after a quick break.

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25:23today.

25:27Dan, you have kids, right? I have one 10 year old boy. And when you hear, when you see a show like adolescence, um, when you hear about struggling young men, how has it changed your approach or informed your approach to fathering? Well, first of all, adolescence scared the shit out of me. Really rattling. It's, it's one of the most, just on a level of craft, it's just one of the most, in terms of the acting and the filmmaking and the writing, it's just one of the most extraordinary pieces of art I have personally consumed in a long time. And absolutely, you know, with a 10 year old boy, like I couldn't get him out of my head, my son out of my head throughout the whole thing.

26:18And so how does it impact my approach? First of all, I think a lot about making sure he has healthy relationships. And we think, he's an only child. And so we think a lot about making sure he sees his cousins a lot and making sure that he has really good friendships that we are helping to nurture and that our house is a comfortable place for him and his friends to hang out. So I think about that a lot. And then second, and again, I know this is something that you've spoken about a lot and you've been an inspiration for me in this regard, Scott, is trying to both model and preach a little bit to the extent that preaching is ever successful with a child, a different concept of masculinity, that strength does not come from denying my emotions, from compartmentalizing, from self-medicating with alcohol.

27:10And I'm not saying that all drinking is bad, but if you're doing it not to feel your feelings, I worry about that. From showing respect to my wife in front of my in front of my son, I really think about trying to model a kind of fierce masculinity. That is the the ferocity that we referred to earlier in Buddhism of the ferocity that says, yeah, I have panic attacks and I can admit that to the world. I can I can talk to you, my son, about this, that hopefully normalizes it for you. So, yeah, to me, that's all part of raising a healthy boy slash man now. Anthony? I, you know, I don't really want to add to me adding anything with detract, actually, because I think what you're saying is so, so direct.

28:02I guess one final question for you, Dan, because I watched at Scott's suggestion, I follow, obviously, we all follow Scott on social media, the whole world does, and I watched the whole show. I asked my wife and my mother-in-law to watch it. My mother-in-law turned it off. She said that she was getting anxiety. To quote her, I'm 79 years old. I'm getting too much anxiety, and I shut it off. And so I get it. So so that's my final question for you, sir. How do we get people to breathe through what they see going on in this generation of young men? Well, I think I think it's totally fine not to watch adolescence and.