First Time Founders with Ed Elson – How Bobbi Brown Built A Beauty Empire

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1:23Download today. Scott, how much do you know about the beauty industry? More than your average straight white guy. I worked with L 'Oreal, Estee Lauder, LVMH, Clarence, Mac. And what were your main takeaways? That it's a really impressive industry. It attracts a lot of very smart people. It's a growing industry. It's a fantastic high margin industry that it's all about. I mean, it's kind of the ultimate branding celebrity deathmatch because they're all kind of selling the same mud. I mean, it really is kind of 90 % branding. And there's a ton of innovation there. The beauty industry or the luxury industry, it doesn't get the credit it deserves in terms of innovation.

2:09True innovation around branding. They were some of the first to go vertical, have celebrity spokespeople embrace social movements. John Dempsey at Estee Lauder I was one of the first people to embrace gay people and transgender people as spokespeople. So they were always kind of cutting edge. It was also an industry that advanced female executives pretty quickly. So I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed working with those companies.

2:43Welcome to First Time Founders. I'm Ed Elson. In 1991, one woman forever changed the makeup industry with a bold mission to enhance, not alter, a woman's natural beauty. Her approach redefined how we think about makeup, and her name became synonymous with innovation all over the world. After building a billion-dollar brand, she stepped away from the company to return to her entrepreneurial roots. She has succeeded as a makeup artist, an entrepreneur, a television personality, and a writer. As a true legend in the industry, she continues to reshape the beauty landscape, this time with Jones Road, a new makeup company built on the idea of clean beauty.

3:28This is my conversation with Bobby Brown, the founder of Bobby Brown Cosmetics and Jones Road Beauty. Bobby Brown, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you. Nice to talk to you. I think most people know the name Bobby Brown. I mean, you go into any department store in the world, you've seen that name. I don't think as many people know the story of Bobby Brown, the person. So I want to start there. And I'd love to get a sense of your childhood to begin. So tell our audience, where did you grow up? What were you like as a kid? What were your hobbies? How did this all begin? Well, I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago.

4:09and, you know, I just fell in love with makeup as a young kid. I used to watch in awe as my mother would get ready for dates with my dad, and she was incredibly glamorous. I never was. And how I was as a kid, I mean, pretty normal, I guess. I didn't really excel in anything. I had a lot of friends. I was, you know, very social. And, you know, when I didn't get good grades, my parents decided they should stop punishing me because I probably wouldn't amount to anything. And I think what just that meant was they just didn't see my career as, you know, a businesswoman. Were you excelling in makeup?

4:50I mean, where did this makeup habit start? No, I did not excel in makeup. I just loved it. I just loved it. And I loved, you know, watching my mom do it. I loved playing with it. And as a middle school kid, you know, every middle school kid is insecure. And so I discovered that I could put a little bit of makeup on and look better But I didn't want anyone to know I was wearing it. So I would mess around with it And then when I went to college, um, I transferred a couple times I thought college was so boring and I didn't want to go to school And my mother said you can't drop out. You have to do something mom.

5:25I have no idea what I want to do She said, okay Pretend it's your birthday. You could do anything you want. What would you want to do? And I just I thought for a nanosecond and I said I'd love to go play with makeup at the department store. She said, there it is, be a makeup artist. And I said, I don't want to go to beauty school. She said, I'm sure there's a college. And I found a college that let me make up my own major. And that's where I went to school. No idea what I was going to do with this major, a Bachelor of Fine Arts, but I got one. And so then you moved to New York City, right, where you're working as a freelance makeup artist.

6:00Did you know at that point that that was going to be your career in the beauty industry doing makeup? I thought that was going to be my career. I never thought anything past being a makeup artist. And, you know, when I moved to New York, I didn't know anyone and there was no internet to even figure out who anyone was. So I would go stand at newspaper stands and look in the magazines and see who was, who were the people I should call, which I did. And, um, you know, opened up the yellow pages and saw, you you know, looked under makeup. And I started just putting a portfolio together. And I thought, you know, my dream is to have a Vogue cover.

6:35I wanted to be to make up for a Vogue cover. It took me seven years and I got a Vogue cover. So I started, you know, this great career, editorial career, being with all the fabulous people and traveling a bunch. And I made a name for myself, never thinking or knowing where it was going to lead. And then you started your company, Bobby Brown Cosmetics. But it wasn't really a company because I didn't really start a company. So what had happened was I fell in love and I didn't want to travel anymore because I would have missed my then fiance. And so we moved to New Jersey, believe it or not, from New York, which was pretty out of the box because no one did that back then.

7:21And I just said, I can't keep traveling. and I met a chemist at a shoot and I said, I've always wanted to make a lipstick that looked like lips. And so I made a lipstick and I'm like, wow, this is cool. I bet people will buy this. And I started selling it. I never thought I would be a big brand. I never thought I would be a no name. I never thought anything. I just, wow, this is a cool lipstick. I'm usually in the moment. Yeah. You mentioned that, you know, to make a lipstick that looked like lips, which today I don't think sounds like a very controversial statement. But back then, interestingly, it was.

7:59And I think the thing that you are known for in the industry, what you pioneered was this natural look, this idea of making your face not as made up as it used to be. For those of us who don't know about this, and I have to admit, I'm sort of one of these people, what did makeup look like before you? What was new about this natural look? Well, first of all, you know, when you would, a makeup artist would do someone's makeup for a magazine or if you went into a department store and you would put this foundation on that was whitish or pinkish or just ashy. And then you'd have to put all this makeup on top that was so bright and garish, you'd have to blend it.

8:41And by the time you're done, it just looked, the best way to describe it is artificial. It just didn't look natural. And for some reason, even back then, when the girls walked in the shoots or washed their faces and left, I realized they look so much better. Like, so I started doing makeup that looked like them. Like, I would use a blush. Sounds crazy. That was the color of their cheeks when you pinch them. I would use a foundation. How about this for a, you know, an Aho moment? Like a foundation that was the color of your skin. No one did that. What do people think when you come in there and you say, I want to make it look the same color as their skin as it is now?

9:20Did people say, well, that doesn't make any sense? Did they say that's not the point of this industry? Many of them said, you're never going to work if this is the kind of makeup you do. People, this is not what's in. And I'm like, yeah, but I like it. And there were some photographers didn't hire me again because I didn't do that kind of makeup that, you know, sometimes bordered on the drag queen makeup. It just wasn't my style. It wasn't my aesthetics. However, I loved when I worked with creative people that would push me to get out of my comfort zone and do something very strong and avant-garde.

9:53but it was still my style. So that was kind of how I honed my skills. And then within a few years, I mean, you start selling this lipstick at Bergdorf Goodman, and it starts doing really well. And then it's kind of like this smash hit in a very short period of time. So what were some of those big wins that you experienced in those few years back in the early 90s when Bobby Brown Cosmetics was really doing well? I also had two children by then and, you know, lived out of the city. So I was a working mom commuting back and forth to the city. So, you know, it was a whirlwind, truthfully, you know, two boys that were two years apart and a husband that was in law school and this company that had taken off.

10:36So it was pretty incredible. And I'm not sure how I got through it, except I just am the kind of person I get through things. I'm like, oh, that didn't work. Let me do it this way. So I've always been resilient that way. It was exciting. It was fun. And I started doing less magazine shoots in favor of doing things that will promote the makeup. So, you know, going on the Today Show, I became the beauty editor and I taught women how to be a makeup artist. and they would end up running to a counter to buy makeup. So, you know, it really took off. And I guess it was four and a half years after Bobby Brown Cosmetics started that we sold it.

11:18Were you surprised by how well it did? I was not. I was excited. I was thrilled. And I really thought what I was doing was better than anything on the market. I don't know if I'm cocky. I don't know if I'm naive. I just think what I do is better. um i you know i can't help it until i think something really sucks and i'm like all right that was terrible yeah you know i go both ways but i was excited and i was really busy really busy both at work and at home and what's amazing is how quickly this all happened so this was like around four or five years after you launched this company then you get this call from estee lauder who were looking to buy it what happened there well we were beating them in the stores.

12:04You know, we were number one in Bergdorf and Neiman's and, you know, Lauder always was. So they went and they said, who is this? What is this? And we weren't for sale, but we ended up selling the company. And I stayed as an employee, a corporate employee for 22 years. And it was about almost a hundred million dollars. Was that a difficult decision? No, it was not a difficult decision. My husband and I had business partners. that were a little bit difficult. And so I never felt I sold to Estee Lauder. I sold to Leonard Lauder. And he just, you know, became my biggest supporter. And he just, I knew he supported me.

12:50I knew he believed in me. And he, I felt he was my partner. And he introduced us, my husband and I, to so many things. And we, and the partners. And we couldn't have done it without, you know, Estee Lauder. We didn't know. And also, he said probably the thing that made the most sense to me. He said, I know what's important to you, and that's being a mom and being with your kids. And we can help you have both worlds where we could do the things that you don't really care about. And you could be as involved and as in charge as you want. What was that like to meet Leonard Lauder, who's kind of this icon in the beauty industry?

13:30I mean, considering how quick your rise was, and then you're suddenly catapulted up there, then I assume you're meeting and having meals with this titan of the industry. How did that feel? Well, it was so, so cool, first of all. And anyone that knows Leonard, he is the warmest, nicest guy, so inclusive, making sure you're okay, making sure everything's working. So, you know, you don't get business partners like that very often. So it was amazing. And we would go to all of his, you know, his art shows and openings and galas and sit at his table. And, you know, it was for Stephen and I, we would just be like, this is so interesting.

14:14You know, met great people. And then in 2016, you decided to leave. Was it hard to leave this company that you built yourself? It was hard and it was really easy. because, you know, for so many of the years, things were great. And there was a whole bunch of years that things were not great. It was not an overnight decision. It was a lot of angst and agony. And, you know, eventually it just, it reached a point and it was like, okay, done. And it was tough and not easy after I left to kind of figure out who am I? What am I going to do? Am I going to be a one hit wonder? You know, what am I going to do with my time?

14:56Like I didn't need to work, but I also didn't need to learn how to play golf or tennis or anything. Yeah. What did you do with your time right after that? I started a bunch of new businesses. I, you know, that's what I did. I had, my husband and I developed a hotel in Montclair called The George. We have a photo studio, an event studio called 18 Label. I started a line of supplements and wellness that I launched with Walmart. I went back to being a makeup artist. I filmed a masterclass. I mean, I did a lot of interesting things until my non-compete was up. And I didn't know I was going to have another beauty company, but I did.

15:40We'll be right back.

16:16We'll see you next time.

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17:53We're back with First Time Founders. So we'll just fast forward here to your latest beauty company, which is Jones Road, which you launched on October 26th, 2020, which was the exact day that your 25-year non-compete with Estee Lauder ended. So my question was going to be, was this always part of the plan? I mean, it certainly looks like it, but you say, no, you didn't know. Well, the plan of when I was going to launch it came after I realized I wanted to do something again. And I kept everything under wraps because I had a non-compete. So I, you know, worked on a couple products, you know, with a very small team of one.

18:40And, you know, I wasn't sure how I was going to launch it. At first, I said, well, I'll just launch it on Etsy. I'll start selling a pencil on Etsy. I'll start. And I had a four and a half year left on a 25 years when I left the brand. That's a really long time for someone that doesn't have a lot of patience. Everybody just said, wait, just wait, wait till you're free, wait till your non-compete is up. And we did. And, you know, think about it. We launched the day the non-compete was up, and that was one week before the then-presidential election, in the middle of the pandemic, in the middle of all the social unrest, and everyone said, don't do it.

19:16Every PR guru I talked to said, you're out of your mind. You're out of your mind. And I just didn't listen. Just like I didn't listen when they told me I need to do a different kind of make-up. It just felt right. I'm like, no, this feels right. I mean, I think about this with my own work, too, where it's like, I find that the best stuff is the stuff that I truly believe is good. And I'm just kind of convinced by it. And I'm not really sure why. And you've sort of done that over and over again. Where do you think that comes from? Well, it's not that I don't listen because I listen to what they say.

19:51But then I decide what's right for me. And I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. But I want to do this. And I think it's right. I don't know where it comes. I don't know where my gut comes. My gut is not always right. It's often right. And it's many times wrong. So I just know this makes sense. Why not? And I'm also someone that I don't believe in failure. Like, so what? We do something and we say, well, that was really dumb. That didn't work. All right. Well, let me do something else that taught me that I can't do this again. So I just start again, you know, brush myself off and say, let's go do this.

20:30This company, Jones Road, is the opposite of a failure. I mean, I'm just looking at the financials here that have floated around online. My understanding is that Jones Road did$20 million in revenue in its first year. And then last year, it was around$150 million in revenue. 57. 157. There we go. What do you think has made this company such a success? Oh, my God. It's not just me. You know, I mean, I'm certainly part of it. And what I again, what I believe in is making makeup that when you put it on, you just look better. I mean, a stupid concept, right? No, that's why people wear makeup. and I don't listen to all the noise out there of what should be done or what other people are doing because that's great for them.

21:22And yeah, there's a market for makeup, you know, to contour and overline your lips and, you know, do all those crazy things. It's just not my market. But there's enough people that just want to look better. And, you know, the hashtag I started when we launched Jones Road, which no one uses except me, because I guess no one uses hashtags anymore, was how not to look like shit. Like, that's why I wear makeup, because I'm like, I just look like shit. What am I doing here? When you look back at Bobby Brown Cosmetics, which you launched in 1990, and then you look at Jones Road, which you launched 30 years later in 2020, what would you say are like the main differences in the beauty industry back then compared to today?

22:09Like what are some things in your overall strategy that you had to change just because we're living in a new era? Right. Well, so many things. First of all, distribution. You know, we're not in department stores. I'm in one store in the world. We are in one store in the world, and that's Liberty in London because it's Liberty. I mean, there's no other store like that. And I think also just doing things differently. So our current CEO happens to be this mastermind of digital marketing. Weirdly enough, he also happens to be my second son, which is just the weirdest thing to think that this kid who didn't really care a thing about makeup, but he and his, you know, like just really made a huge difference.

22:58And now he's running the company. I mean, he has finance reporting to him. He has, I think, I'm not sure if he reports to me or I report to him. It depends, you know, who you talk to, but, and his wife is our head of brand. So weirdly enough, we have turned into a family business. My husband is the, you know, the head of our board and, you know, my other kids are there when I need their opinion, which they're very loud give to me. And I, you know, it's just, the world is different. And I think it's so interesting to do things different ways, to market it different ways, to talk to your customer the way you would talk to a friend and not have layers.

23:39That's the biggest thing. Not have layers and not waste time, energy and money on consultants that you don't need. What do you mean by layers? Oh my God, to get something approved, you know, at the height of my career at the big corporate company, there was people that you just had to get all these people's opinion on from all the different departments and corporate and internal. And now it's, you know, I make the final say on some things. Cody makes the final say on other things. And, you know, we work it together. So you have a conversation, you hash it out, and then a decision is made. Yeah, it does feel that direct to consumer is this, or maybe we just call it direct, this idea of getting rid of all of the intermediaries, whether it means trying to make a corporate decision and then having it go through this long chain and then finally being spat out at the other end.

24:34Companies are trying to get rid of that. And then we're also seeing it in, you know, marketing and entertainment where, you know, podcasts like ourselves, we're just putting our stuff direct out to our audience. It feels like this is sort of a new trend. And it does seem, I mean, you're almost 100 % D to C at Jones Road. How do you create that culture in your company? How do you keep those layers from getting into the structure? And how do you keep everything as direct as you have it now? We're pretty lean. We're pretty scrappy. And we tend to hire, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but younger people with less history of experience.

25:17I mean, our creative director, it's her first job. And she's phenomenal. and she's, I don't even think she's 27 yet. I don't know. She might've just turned 27 and she's just talented. And so, you know, there's sometimes that gets frustrating because people don't have the experience, you know, and I'm not going to say the maturity, but the experience to say, okay, wait, you know, this has to be done or that has to be done. But they're learning, you know, they're learning. And I'm learning, by the way, that it's my job to not only expect them to do it, but also to teach them like, okay, let's look at this.

25:54Wouldn't it make more sense if we did this two months earlier and not the day before I keep getting like things to approve on my, I'm like, oh my God, it has to go up tomorrow. I have to look at it now. And, but you know, whatever, it's just, it's a new world. And in order to be successful now is you have to like, just be different and, and, and just be open and scrappy and not waste money. Just going back to the differences between then and now, I mean, you're in this unique position. You started two successful companies in the same category in totally different times. And I'd be interested to know, to understand your views on just how, what role is social media playing in the beauty industry today and how important is it for your strategy?