Is the Alternative Meats Era Over? Why Are Americans So Lonely? and Should I Practice Vulnerability at Work?

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1:21Welcome to the Prop G Pod's Office Hours. This is the part of the show where we answer your questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehours at propgmedia.com. Again, that's officehours at propgmedia.com. First question. Hey, Scott. I'm Adam. I run a venture-backed plant-based dumpling company in San Francisco. And yeah, every time I say that, I take stock of what I have and I count my blessings. Anyways, we're part of the alternative meat industry in which we make delicious alternatives to animal meat.

1:53And the sector ranges from products made of such things as plants, fungi, or even cells. As a scientist in the sector for a while, we've been going through some turbulent times. As an industry, we've felt the hype cycle and a lot of brands are struggling to recover. Therefore, a lot of branding and strategy has kind of gone all over the place, with, in my opinion, little thoughtfulness. With increasing pressure from conventional animal meat and a product that's generally more expensive and opinionated on taste compared to its conventional counterpart, if you were to take the reins on designing branding and strategy for an alternative meat company, what do you think they should focus on?

2:27With meat alternatives taking just a small market share of conventional meat, how do we beat big meat? Double entendre aside, I was inspired to write this question because you mentioned cutting back on beef. Also, I've been listening to your podcast since the WeWork days, and my dad and I argue about your hot takes all the time. Thank you for your work. A really thoughtful question, Adam, from San Francisco. So when you had your first sentence, I run a venture-backed plant-based dumpling company in San Francisco. My first thought, you then said in your second sentence, you said, I take stock of what I have and count my blessings.

2:59You run a venture-backed, plant-based dumpling company. Okay. I don't think that would happen for you in Ecuador. I don't think there's any way that would happen for you even in Singapore. Maybe Singapore. I don't know. It's great to be, and I think we lose sight of this, and it appears you haven't, but I think one of the things that really bothers me about the tech bro community, if you will, is they conflate luck with talent. Anyways, good for you. Okay, so just some data. During the pandemic, more people bought alternative meat products due to health concerns, environmental reasons, and meat shortages.

3:38Since sales have plummeted, an expert suggests that plant-based bubble has burst. Beyond Meat, for example, in 2022 reported a 9.8 % decrease in revenue. Gross profit was a loss of$23.7 million and gross margin of negative 5.7 % of net revenues. According to the Good Food Institute, plant-based beef is twice as expensive as regular beef and four times the cost of chicken on store shelves. Due to high prices, investment in these alternatives fell by 78 % last year. So branding. Quite frankly, boss, I think you have an elegant brand, like good packaging, a nice website. And to be blunt, I don't think it matters.

4:19I think you're in a nuclear winter and you go, I think you cut costs like crazy. I can tell you if I was on your board, I'd be like, lay off 60 % of my staff, cut my burn and get through this nuclear winter. Because I would bet somewhere between 50 and 80 % of alternative meat companies go away in the next 24 months because they assumed that it was gonna be the next big thing. And it might be, but next is the dangerous word. When is next gonna happen? And the folks that survive, you got to assume this is going to work, that alternative meats are going to have, going to be a viable part of our food ecosystem.

4:52All right. So you're bought into that. Let's just assume that's a given. You're going to have to get to the other side and the other side, there's going to be a valley of death. It's got to be near impossible to raise money right now. So you want to quite frankly, just hunker down. I wouldn't focus on the sustainability of it. I'd focus on the taste of it and I would not spend much money on marketing at all. And I'd keep my prices as low as I could, and I would just try and extend my runway as long as possible and execute well, have really good relationships with my partners, do a lot of sampling, a lot of earned media, try and write a lot, a lot of thought leadership.

5:27I would be really scrappy. I would not spend a lot of time on traditional branding here because I would be throwing nickels around like they're manhole covers. Because the bad news is, I think this ecosystem is going to lose a ton of players. The good news is, is that when the market comes back, it should be champagne and cocaine for alternative beef, whatever that would be, because there'll be just much fewer players. And if you can't survive, you're going to come out the other end really, really robustly. Just on a personal note, I absolutely love beef. I could eat beef three times a day. I could wake up and eat bacon, then have a bacon sandwich and then have steak with, you know, carpaccio.

6:04And if they had meat desserts, I'd probably, I, the dog is big on meat. I like meat. And also, I think there's a lot of evidence that it's not that bad for you. Where I am starting to question my beef intake is TikTok. I'm on TikTok, and I see this bull playing with this rancher where he takes the barrel, and he bounces the barrel towards the rancher, and the rancher and the bull, like this two-ton animal, sits there jumping its legs, waiting for the rancher to throw the barrel so he can retrieve it for them. And I immediately think of my great Dane Leia. And it's just impossible for me to ignore the fact that these are mammals with big brains, very emotional, that suckle their young, they give live birth, and want to be around other beings, and are probably at their core, you know, kind, wonderful beings.

7:02And when you have the unfortunate experience of learning anything about the industrial food production business, what we do to these animals is, I don't, it's, inhumans is the wrong word, because we would never treat humans this way. It's just totally immoral. Not even, no, it's not amoral. It's immoral. And it's starting to weigh on me for the first time. There's more birds in captivity than birds in the wild because of chickens and the way they raise veal. I mean, it really is, we should hope there's not a hell, because if there is a hell, or even if there is a heaven, and we have to reconcile our activity with animals, it's going to be pretty fucking ugly.

7:38A long-winded way of saying, I think it's important what you're doing. I think we should all be thinking about plant-based alternative calories. If for anything, if I come at it from a humanity standpoint or just, you know, having dogs has just changed my outlook on the industrial food complex. As it relates to you, boss, you're in survival mode. This industry is going to work. It's going to grow. And you want to be one of the survivors and have your sales up, or at least have your sales in tax such that when the winds come back, you're ready. It's not aspirational. Branding is not going to save you right here.

8:11This is about survival. Question number two. I was curious if you have any thoughts regarding car dependency in the U.S. and how it relates to the death of third spaces. Outside of living in the downtowns of our biggest cities, reliable public transportation and walkable communities can be few and far between. As someone who is well-traveled and has lived abroad, I'm sure you've been exposed to what life can be like when communities are not dependent on using a car. In a world where we are feeling increasingly isolated, it can often feel like reliance on cars contributes to that. Kids don't play in the streets.

8:47People can't walk around and pop into a cafe or a pub. Do you have any thoughts on car dependency and how it relates to our communities? It's a really interesting question. So thank you, Anonymous. The U.S. is really car-reliant, more so than most countries, because the automobile industry and the rubber industry basically got in the way of all public infrastructure such that we would buy more cars and more tires. Census data shows that 37 % of U.S. households have access to two vehicles. In 2022, only 8.3 % of households were without a vehicle, down from 8.7 % in 2018. Things are changing, though.

9:23So just to go back, I had no social life. The day I turned 16, I got a car. I went and got my driver's license and my mom gave me her Opel Manta I mean it was a really nice moment for me this lime green Opel Manta it was the nicest thing I'd ever received and she used to come home and I'd go down to the garage when I was 15 and she gave me driver's lessons in the garage anyways I was totally focused on having a car my kids have no desire to have a car and for the first time in my life I don't have a car I don't think this is the problem I don't think well I mean okay there's some nuance one of the things that's wonderful about London and I love about my son My son will go to a sneaker convention with his friends, and they take the tube, and it's fantastic.

10:02And that wasn't available to me when I was a kid. However, I didn't have screens, so I wanted to get out of the house, and I figured out a way to get out of the house. I used to take the RTD Route 83 along Wilshire Boulevard, which crawled along about 45 minutes to get three miles to the beach, and then take it back. That's not the problem. The problem isn't cars. As a matter of fact, kids don't want cars. Uber is amazing. There's cars. There's all sorts of ride hailing you can get around. I would argue that Uber, in concert with what little public infrastructure there is, solves most of those problems around getting somewhere.

10:31The problem is that people are having a reasonable facsimile of life or think they can have a reasonable facsimile of life on a screen with algorithms. And I think that's really the problem. A lot of people do agree with you around pollution. The two big puffs of carbon into the air have been, one, the suburbanization of America, which made us much more reliant on cars. and two, the industrialization of China, where we started using coal or China started using coal to catch up economically. And supposedly, obesity, one of the things that's led to obesity is that we spend an extra hour of car each day.

11:05It will result in a 6 % greater chance of becoming obese. You don't want to be in your car a lot. As a matter of fact, one of the more interesting things I'm thinking about is this notion of what's the best place to send your kids to school. And there's a body of research showing that the best place to send your kids to school is the school that's closest. and then reinvesting that time they would spend on a commute in time with family, more sleep, more studying, etc. Anyways, I think we are moving away from a car culture into a car hailing or car renting or car leasing culture. Third spaces, we need investments in third spaces.

11:38We need more parks, more leagues, more nonprofits. outfits, I'm even thinking we need more religious institutions just to give more opportunity for young people to be in the strangers or in the company of strangers, you know, community colleges, whatever it is, just to get people out into third spaces, sort of the barbershop, if you will, walking, huge walk, outdoor walking malls. I think all of that stuff is incredibly important. I think this is a huge issue, but I don't think it's a lack of car or lack of access to public transportation that's getting in the way here. I think it's a factor, but I think it's much more mendacious than that.

12:16And I think it's that kids, that we're letting them spend too much time on screens and this notion that you don't need to go out and try and meet a woman. You can be on YouPorn or that you don't need friends. You can go on Reddit or Discord. I think that's the problem. Let me put it this way. The phone has replaced the car or public infrastructure in terms of people trying to connect. And it's really terrible. But having said that, I absolutely love cars. First time, I haven't owned one. But I don't think that our isolation is a function of something else, not the car. I actually think it's a good thing that young people, teenagers don't drive.

12:55I was teaching my kid how to drive. Jesus Christ, that's scary. You go to the DMV, they give you a learner's permit, and they're like, off you go, young man. And then you put in a car. And I'm not exaggerating. My son pulls up to make a left and it's red. And he pulls out into the intersection to make a left. I'm like, what are you doing? It's like, well, you know, you have to make a stop on a red light, but then you can make a turn. I'm like, not on a left turn. And first off, that's only in California on a right turn. And I'm panicked in the middle of this intersection. But that's how they learn.

13:22Anyways, I don't know where I was going with that. But I think that loneliness, which is a crisis, is a function of our screens and not encouraging young people not demanding that they get out of the house more. Bit of a word salad. Bit of a word salad. Thank you for the question. We have one quick break before our final question. Stay with us.

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14:59Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglyss. Before starting Epglyss, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Searching for real relief? Ask your doctor about Epglyss and visit epglyss.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Tonight on NBC, Jimmy Fallon and Bozema St. John host the highly anticipated new competition show. I hired 10 creatives from all walks of life. They will be battling it out to see who can impress the world's biggest brands. This is a huge opportunity.

15:32This is the battle for the next big idea. This is not play play. We're spending millions of dollars. I'm so excited to embark on this adventure with all of you. Make the best idea win! On Brand with Jimmy Fallon, series premiere tonight on NBC. Welcome back. Question number three. Hey, Prof G. My name is Connor. I'm from North Carolina, and I'm a big fan of all your work. I listen to all the podcasts, and I always walk away thinking about something differently than I did before. My question for you is about vulnerability. I've heard you talk on this pod and on other podcasts about the power of male vulnerability in the context of friends, family, and romantic relationships.

16:09I'd be curious to get your thoughts on how showing vulnerability translates to the workplace, particularly for managers and leaders. I've been in a leadership position at a tech company for a couple of years now, and I'm always looking to improve how I lead my teams. On one hand, I could see how a level of vulnerability has the potential to humanize managers and inspire their teams. But on the other hand, I can also see how too much vulnerability has the potential to undermine a leader's credibility. I would love to hear your perspective on how or even if vulnerability can be a tool for managers and leaders.

16:38Connor, thanks for the question. So it's a spectrum. I think vulnerability is really important, but there's different levels of vulnerability, and there's vulnerability that is appropriate to work and inappropriate. I don't think crying is, I think the downsides outweigh the upsides in a professional context. Unfortunately, especially if you're a woman. And that is, I remember when my firm, L2, was acquired by Gartner, I had a meeting with, who was supposed to be my boss, but let's be honest, I was 10 times more important than this person. and they were upset. There was someone in the company who wanted out and I was helping them find a job and she got upset and met with me and broke into tears.

17:18And I thought, I just didn't take her very seriously from that point forward. If that sounds sexist, it is. And guess what? You're dealing with a sexist workplace. And I don't know. I think it's okay to be emotional when something moves you, but I don't think you want to show that kind of vulnerability at work. I just don't think it's appropriate. It makes people feel uncomfortable. It's hard to have a professional conversation. At the same time, there is vulnerability that's very powerful at work. One, admitting you're wrong. Oh, I did a bad job on this. I was wrong. Or I got, I'm finally, I still have a tough time doing that.

17:49I got this wrong. You know, I had a strategy for my online education firm that we'd get world-class professors and we get educational institutions on board. I was wrong. Educational institutions have, are fat and happy and don't want to work with disruptors. My strategy was just, it just didn't make any sense. And I'm finally at the point where I'm comfortable in a professional context saying, yeah, I screwed up here. Can we fix it? I think it's also important to, if you're a manager on a regular basis, say to someone, I got this wrong and I apologize. I think that kind of vulnerability is really important.

18:23No one expects you to be perfect. I think you want to be, I don't want to say guarded in terms of your emotions, but I think some of the emotional vulnerability you want to show in your relationships with your friends and your loved ones and your children, I think that It should be mostly sequestered to a personal environment. My team sees a lot of my emotions on this podcast because it's when I talk about this stuff and I reveal stuff about my past, I get very emotional. And to be blunt, it works because I'm talking to a lot of people and I'm trying to inform young men on how to be vulnerable in terms of their own emotions.

18:57And also, a lot of men are committing suicide at four times the rate of women. A lot of it is because men don't want to express vulnerability. So they get to a point where they just have an inability to share that they're struggling, feel like they're dealing with this alone and go to a very dark place and feel like everyone is so detached from their struggle that they don't even know where to start. And it takes them to a place of isolation and real severe depression. So anyway, it's a lot here. But yeah, be vulnerable. Admit your mistakes. Apologize. But in terms of really being emotional, I think you want to have a much higher bar for demonstrating those emotions at work.

19:34It's work. It's a professional atmosphere. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehours at profgmedia.com. Again, that's officehours at profgmedia.com.

19:56This episode was produced by Caroline Shagrin. Jennifer Sanchez is our associate producer. And Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Profity Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn. And on Monday with our weekly market show. Are you getting ghosted by your prospects? It's time to smarten up your outreach with TextUs. Our powerful SMS platform helps your marketing and sales teams reach prospects more effectively, ensuring your message is actually read. Experience response rates up to 10 times higher than traditional email campaigns and sequences, and stop getting ghosted by high probability opportunities.

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