Notes on Being a Man — a Live Conversation with Ben Stiller

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25:06Just to get back to what you were talking about before I interrupted you about it. I was, it's interesting to me when you say these role models for young men and you talk about mothers. Can you talk a little bit? Cause I, I, in the book, you talk about your childhood a lot and, um, and your parents. And can you talk a little bit about how they influenced you growing up being, uh, you know, having divorced parents, what role your mom and, and your dad, but really how your mom affected you. So I've cried twice this week on national TV, first on The View and about two hours ago on, oh no, it's not cool.

25:47I was just on The Daily Show and I'm not exaggerating. Jordan Klepper literally moved his hands across and held my hands and looked around like, oh fuck, I don't know how to deal with that. Look, raised by a single immigrant mother who lived and died as secretary, lied to my life. and the basic takeaway is the following, and I try and do this, and Beata's here, we do this, I think, really well. If you say to a kid, regardless of, my mom worked very hard, we didn't have a lot of money, it was just us, me and her against the world, but if somebody tells you every day in small and big ways, implicit and explicit, that they just think you're wonderful, you know, I was, by the time I was 16, I was six feet with bad acne and 120 pounds.

26:29I wasn't like, I didn't have huge social capital. Let's just put it that way. But when someone's telling you every day that you're wonderful, you can't help but start to believe it. And I think that confidence has always been resident inside of me. I was just really blessed when I reverse engineer all of what's happened to me. The base of it is someone who just was just every day convinced me I was a good person or that I was worthwhile. My dad wasn't around. My dad left. My dad, um, was a handsome man with a Scottish accent, which meant in seventies, California, you can not only think with your dick, you could use it.

27:10Um,

27:14married and divorced four times, as far as we know. And, uh, so he left when I was eight and he wasn't, you know, he tried, I forgave him later in life because I think the primary box you have to check as a dad is to be better to your son than your father was to you. And my dad was a much better father than his dad was to him. His dad was an alcoholic and physically abusive to him. And he was pulled out of school at the age of 13, lied, and joined the Royal Navy where he was jumping into freezing water in a wetsuit at the age of 18 to come home after two years, sending all his money home because he wanted to come to America.

27:54where his mother informed him she'd spent all his money on whiskey and cigarettes. And it was angry at him when he was upset because she said, what was I supposed to do? I'm bored. So my dad didn't have a lot of great role models in his life. But, you know, he tried, checked a box. I inherited the gift of storytelling. And he made the smartest decision that had the most impact on my life. and that is he and my mother decided to immigrate to America. A lot of my success is not my fault. So their decision to get on a steamship at the ages of 20 and 21 and come to America, I'm just very grateful.

28:35And in divorce, you have a tendency, I think, to sanctify one person and demonize the other. And I did that. I didn't speak to my father for years at a time because I would get very angry when I would think about, he could have made my mom and my life much easier and he didn't. And you hold on to that resentment, right? I don't know. A lot of us have complicated relationships with our parents, but the learning here or the big unlock for me and what I would tell anybody, it's just made me much happier is that growing up, my approach to relationships was transactional. Am I getting as much from this friendship as you are with a girlfriend?

29:18Oh, your parents were in town and I hung out with your dad. That means you got to hang out with my parents. And if you don't, everything was a transaction. I had a scorecard around every relationship, including my father. I'm not going to be a better son than you were a father to me, full stop. I'm just not. And then the biggest unlock or one of the biggest unlocks from my life that started my father's, I said, okay, what kind of son do I want to be? What kind of friend do I want to be? What kind of partner do I want to be? What kind of investor do I want to be? What kind of business partner do I want to be?

29:50And then hold yourself to that standard and just put away the fucking scorecard. Because you always inflate your own contributions and diminish theirs and you end up unhappy. And I decided I wanted to be a loving, generous son regardless. Can I ask, what point in your life did you make that shift? A few weeks ago. Under the influence of mushroom chocolates, I'm reconsidering it. No, about, quite frankly, not until I was about 40 or 45. And as soon as I decided I want to be a generous, loving son and put the bullshit away, our relationship just got much better. and I realized I forgave him for his flaws, recognizing he did try.

30:34And a lot of his DNA, a lot of his risks have paid huge dividends for me. So there's no reason I can't be grateful for those things. I wanna flip it back to you. You had a different relationship. Your parents married long-term. I get the sense from the things I've read about you, it sounded like you grew up in what I would call a very stable, supportive, loving household. But that's the exterior image. I mean, you know, Upper West Side, New York, 70s parents who are a comedy team, relatively stable. You know, like it was a different time. It was, you know, I just literally, I just made a documentary about my family and that whole experience.

31:18And there's so much that I can identify with what you're saying in terms of getting to a point in your life for me where it took me to get to a point in my life where I could appreciate that point of view of looking at what kind of relationship do I want to have with my dad as opposed to holding on. Because I had a great dad. And in a way, though, the daunting... Of course, I always had stuff with him, as any son does. But the daunting thing for me was that he kind of cast a big shadow in terms of the way that people reacted to him because he was a very generous guy, a very loving guy. So like for me, it was hard to, I was in sort of in conflict because I was like, well, yeah, but he's my dad and you don't really know.

31:59And he was great as a dad too. It wasn't any some secret of like what he was really like, but it's still challenging. But to get to that point for me was when I had kids and I wanted to kind of get into this with you a little bit. That point where you kind of matured to a point where you could say, okay, I want to have this kind of relationship while your dad is still alive. Yeah. you know you wrote in the book about there's a little section where you talk about your parents friends you know you grew up with who you know were very kind of these larger than life characters sort of when you were a kid and then they got older and you talk about how when your mom's friend was older and she you basically she you needed someone to help take care of her and she left you things and you just you wrote there's a little mention there we say like I couldn't quite I couldn't be there for her the way that maybe you felt you should have at the time.

32:49And it really resonated with me because I felt like... And then you said, as you matured, you were able to figure that out. But looking back, you said, I wish I had shown up more for that. And it reminded me of a time when my parents' friends, two of their very close friends, one of them was very sick when I was in my 30s. And I couldn't deal with that, of this guy who I remembered as a kid. I loved him so much and he was on his deathbed and I couldn't go to visit him. And I felt awful about it. And at the time, I just couldn't deal with it. And I feel like you really talk so eloquently in the book about, you write so eloquently in the book about how you've gotten to this place with your kids of really wanting to be something and have a relationship with them that maybe you couldn't have when you were younger.

33:37And I think that to me is like one of the themes in the book, the idea of, you know, of growing and changing as a person. And when you get to these points in your life where you're able to appreciate those things. So the backstory is my mom's best friends and my godfather were Carson and Charlie Evans. And remember the first time you remember people for the if you registered in motion for a first time with them. And I remember thinking for the first time, these people were cool and rich. I'd never met cool, rich people before. They lived in the Hollywood Hills, and they'd have parties with live bands and cool music, and everyone seemed beautiful, and Carson was gorgeous.

34:20She was literally—and Charlie had a business. They were kind of the toast of the town, and he took an interest in me, and I remember going to his business, and it didn't look like I was going to go to college. So when I was a senior, I started spending time at his printing company in the Valley, and he was trying to get me used to the thought that I might go to work there. And they were the toast of the town. Anyways, Charlie lost his business, lost everything. Carson said, I'm leaving you, went into the garage, killed himself. And my fast forward 20 or 30 years later, my mom is sick and I'm living with my mom.

34:59I'm doing a lot of virtue signaling right now, but it's true. I was living with my mom and Carson calls. And by this time, Carson was a raging alcoholic addicted to painkillers. And she said, I'm coming. I'm coming. I'm like, no, no, we're fine. We're fine. And then up rolls from San Diego to Las Vegas, this canary yellow Corvette with a little Scottish Terrier and 12 bottles of Johnny Walker Red. And she says, I'm staying here. I'm here to take care of my best friend. And she used to make Hot Pockets for us. And unfortunately, the image that will always stay in my mind is me walking in, getting there on a Sunday night from New York.

35:33and Carson naked on her back with these enormous enhanced breasts and a maintenance worker and it said Carlos and they were fooling around on my mom's couch and the weird thing is it was such a strange time in my life I'm like this fits this fits and wow and just going back you know and then things resolve my mom passes away and Carson about three years later I couldn't get her meds And I guess without opiates, basically she died because her system, it was passed away. And I get a call saying, you're the only beneficiary of her will. You're the sole beneficiary. And quite frankly, I could have found time.

36:21I should have found time. I called her every once in a while, but I didn't find time to go see her. And I'm not proud of that. It's just a lack of character, right? to not find time to go spend time with a woman who took care of your mom at the end. And there were just certain things I couldn't do for my mom that Carson did do, as fucked up and drunk as she was all day. She was a huge, huge asset to me at a critical moment. So I got all excited. I was sad, but then I got excited about potentially a windfall.

36:51And she had a safe. And I'm like, oh, my God, there's got to be something good in there. and it was like some weird stuff some photos and this gold belt and i used to remember her wearing it of these big five dollar indian head gold coins and i think the belt was probably worth like i don't know 20 or 30 000 and i thought i'll just hold on to this in case shit really gets real i need to shove something up my ass and move to new zealand or something and so i put in an addresser It is never a good idea for me to try and hide anything. And then a few years later, a friend of mine got divorced and I was moving and I said, you can have all my furniture.

37:29I'm moving to a smaller apartment. And about five years later, I just like really needed some money. I'm like, oh, I'll sell the belt. And gold had spiked to like, you know, a million dollars an ounce or something. So I go on this frenzy looking for that goddamn belt. I can't find it. And then fast forward another 24 months later, my friend Adam goes, by the way, you know, we have this great costume jewelry we found in one of the dressers you sent me. And I'm like, that thing's probably worth like 80 grand by now. And he's like, oh, my 13-year-old's been wearing it to his eighth grade because he thinks it makes him look like a rapper.

38:08And I'm like, does he have it at school right now? Because if he does, could you go get it? Like, he can't lose this thing. But these gold coins are a reminder that at the end of the day, like, you can be the toast of the town. You know, these people had everything. One guy sticks a rifle in his chest, you know, Charlie, and the other dies addicted to opiates. And I don't have any, like, hallmark channel lessons here other than relationships or everything. And just to recognize a lot of your success and a lot of your failure is not your fault. and you don't know what's going to happen. Anyways, that was probably more than you wanted.

38:44Thank you and good night, everybody. It's been great talking to you, Scott.

38:52Well, I mean, you want to talk about marriage and relationships? No. Okay. Yeah, sure. Well, I thought was like really, I love how much you talk about marriage in the book because you obviously are invested in your marriage, and we both have long-term marriages, and you give interesting, I think, great advice about what makes a marriage work. You had a bunch of statistics about how married people live longer and are happier, or they're happier. So, I'm just, I know they are. You're really selling this. his wife is here um no no i'm happier now i'm like i'm in but this actually is about the arc of happiness that you have in the book is interesting he has the graph about the arc of happiness which is like in across your lifetime and it kind of goes like a big smile yeah and i found it to be very true so this is uh i'll try and bring this back to the book about men And that is, so there's this cartoon of a woman in her 30s who doesn't have romantic love.

40:05It's like the greatest tragedy ever. You know, poor Lisa never found romantic love. And now she's in her 40s and she has cats. What a tragedy. Guess what? Lisa's just fine. All of the research shows the following. Men need and benefit from relationships much more than women. Widows are happier after their husband dies. True. This is true. Widowers are less happy. Women do live longer in relationships. They live two to four years longer. Men live four to seven years longer. If a man hasn't cohabitated with a woman or been married by the time he's 30, there's a one in three chance he'll be a substance abuser.

40:47When women don't have a romantic relationship, they oftentimes pour a lot of that energy back into their friend network and their professional lives. When men don't have a relationship, they pour a lot of that energy back into online content, nationalism, misogyny, anti-immigration. They start blaming other people for their problems. The bottom line is men need, especially young men need guardrails and there is nothing like the guardrails of a relationship and especially marriage. And when I, I'll flip this back to you, but when I was younger, when I was, you know, in my twenties, thirties, and even into my forties, everything was about more.

41:31I wanted more money. No matter how much money I want, more money, relevance. I want more relevance. No matter how fabulous my experiences are, the people I was hanging out, could I hang out with more interesting people? Well, I'm in St. Bart's for New Year's. What about F1 for you? I just more. I want fucking more. Just never quite sated. And the only time I have ever felt sated is when I'm with my boys and my partner, Beata, and we look at each other and we know we've done something right. and it's a hassle and it's the end of the night and the kids instinctively throw their legs over ours and we're all on the couch or I know they're safe, I know they're protected, I know they're loved, I know they love me immensely.

42:14It's the only time I've ever had a moment where I thought, okay, I get it. I could go now. I don't want to go now, but I get it. This is it. This is enough. Only time in my life where I've ever felt sated. And what I would say to, I didn't want to get married. I didn't want to have kids. I just didn't. I thought, you know, being single and alone in New York is an empty and meaningless experience. But as far as empty and meaningless experiences go, it was pretty damn good. And then I found someone who wanted to have kids and said, I'm not interested in a long-term relationship with kids. I'm like, fine, we'll have kids.

42:51And now, hands down, and all the research shows this, the happiest people are generally part of a family. And I think the part of masculinity is the greatest reward I feel is making them feel like they're noticed and they're loved being a provider for them, making them hopefully that they feel protected. But it is the most unexpected means of finding purpose and meaning in my life. and the most wonderful thing, it's not even making money that's great, it's making it with people. It's making it with a team. When I met my wife, I had no money. She had no money. We built a great life together. We had no kids.

43:31We have these two boys who get less awful every day. But doing that with someone else, when you don't, when my mom passed away, one of the hardest things about that was every time something good happened to me, I would call my mom. I got my first bonus from Morgan Stanley, call my mom. And your mom can just wax on. She just loves hearing about great things. I met a woman at a coffee line and I got her number. Well, good for you. That's so wonderful. You're so handsome. It's no surprise. And for a good five, 10 years, every time something good happened to me, it was as if it didn't happen because without calling my mom, it wasn't cemented.

44:11It was like, it just didn't happen. And so now with a wife and kids, it's like good things happen again. Like we are building something together and hands down the most rewarding thing in my life. And if I could have any sort of public policy in some, we need to put more money into the pockets of young people such that they can afford to mate and build loving, secure families. 60 % of 30-year-olds used to have at least one child 40 years ago. Now it's 27%. And it's not some cool anti-kid thing, or they're worried about the climate. They can't afford to. And also, when you have a lot of young men who aren't economically viable, we don't like to have an honest conversation about mating.

44:59Men mate socioeconomically, horizontally, and down. women horizontally and up. Beyonce could work at McDonald's and marry Jay-Z. The opposite is not true. 75 % of women say economic viability is key to a mate, only 25 % of men. So when men are not doing well economically, we have an absence of mating. We have an absence of what is the opportunity to do the most rewarding thing in the world, and that is build a family where you get to that point of building something with someone else. And without those opportunities, you know, it's tough on women, but it is absolutely disastrous for men. Because without the guard posts or the guideposts of a relationship, a man really comes off the tracks.

45:49So the question is, how do we figure out a way to lift up all young people, which I think will disproportionately benefit men right now because they're kind of falling off of the tracks? And that is, They don't have the money, the confidence, or the skills to find a partner. And when I think about the most, it just makes me very upset and rattled to think that the most rewarding thing in my life is effectively off limits. Marriage is the new luxury item. Four-fifths of people in the top quintile of income-earning households get married. Only one in five men in the lowest quintile ever have an opportunity to mate.

46:25And unfortunately, that's more the average or more typical in history. Only 80 % of women have reproduced in our species on the planet, only 40 % of men. Because the natural state of kind of barbarism and a society just left where it doesn't redistribute money back to the middle class, the natural order is Porsche polygamy, where the few men who are anointed money or so talented or lucky they get a lot of money, they have multiple mates, and the majority of the lower 90 of men don't have any. And a society collapses on itself because those men get angry. And the most dangerous person in the world is a lonely, broke young man.

47:03If you look at the most unstable, violent societies in the world, they have a disproportionate number of young men who have a lack of economic and a lack of romantic opportunities. And I think right now, the reason why we have elected an insurrectionist president is because young men are failing. And young people pivoted hardest from blue to red, 20 to 24. And the second group that pivoted hardest was 45 to 64-year-old women. And my thesis is that's their mothers. because if your son isn't doing well, you don't give a shit about territorial sovereignty in Ukraine or transgender rights. You just know your kid, your son isn't doing well.

47:39So I think we have all sorts of reasons to make a huge investment in younger people, not just men, all younger people, right? The$40 billion a year tax credit for children gets stripped out of the infrastructure bill. The$120 billion cost of living adjustment for social security flies right through Congress. Old people have figured out a way to vote themselves more money. Our elected representatives are a cross between the Golden Girls and the Land of the Dead. And they keep transferring more money from young people to old people. A person under the age of 40 is 24 % less wealthy than they were than a person that age 40 years ago.

48:17People our age are 72 % wealthier than they were 40 years ago. What does that mean? It means young people are struggling, the more anxious, the more obese. And it is especially hard on young men because we don't like to talk about this. But when a young man has fewer opportunities to be a provider, he is harshly judged in society. Women are disproportionately and unfairly evaluated on their aesthetics. Men are unfairly and disproportionately evaluated on their economic viability. And we are producing way too many economically unviable men. It is bad for household formation. It robs young men of the greatest opportunity for happiness to build something with someone else.

48:55and it makes a nation unstable and violent.

49:10We'll be right back.

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52:47talking about masculinity in a marriage this is just something i was thinking about like how important is it for men in a marriage do you think to maintain like that that thing of feeling like a masculine man because that's you know do you know what i mean well i mean just in terms of like you talk about masculinity in young men, but like as guys get to our age, you know, I feel like guys our age start to try to grasp onto holding onto something as you start to get older. Yeah. Look, I don't, I don't think of it. The honest answer is I don't know. I haven't parsed the role masculinity plays in a, in a.

53:31What do you think about in your, in, in your own marriage? Okay, so I've given a couple best man toasts, and I'll give you the exact toast I give. For a successful marriage, this is my feeling. One, put away the scorecard. We talked about this. Just decide the kind of husband you want to be and always try and be in the plus column. By the way, I think that is the litmus test for when you become a man. I think there are a lot of males that grow really old and never become men. And I think the ultimate litmus test is the following. It's the term surplus value. You create more. Every one of us is absorbing 20, 30,$60 ,000 a year in tax, other people's tax revenue.

54:06If you call 911, someone shows up. If you need to go to the hospital, they'll take care of you. There are brave men and women handling very expensive equipment to try and defend our shores from people who would like to kill us. All right. So we have a debt. So do you create more economic value in jobs than you absorb? Do you notice more people's lives than notice yours? At some point, do more people complain to you than you complain? It's okay that you want it the moment a man and some men ever get there to a point where they are adding more economic value Adding more love adding more concern absorbing more complaints making more people feel good about themselves and maybe Made you feel good.

54:44That's the whole fucking shooting match is surplus Value, so anyways keep put the scorecard away my first suggestion in these tests. The second is the following always express always express physical desire, sex, and affection. It's what says, I choose you. I think women want to be wanted. Sorry, that's my experience. And I think having a really robust, always wanting to express your desire and express affection, I think that says to your partner, our relationship is singular. I think it's hugely important. And finally, and maybe most importantly, never, ever let a woman be cold or hungry.

55:34Cool. Um, I was afraid I wasn't going to have enough questions, but man, um, it's great to listen to you talk. I, there's, uh, I got one more thing I want to talk about before there are questions from the audience. And I, I really want to read a bunch of them because I... Well, first off, what do you think makes a successful marriage? Oh, shit. I think you have to want it and you have to appreciate what you have. And for me, that's where I got to. It took me a little bit to get there. And really, I think that's the thing in marriages that go on a long time is that you get used to each other and you take for granted what you have.

56:17So to me, it's like always every day not taking it for granted. And I had that ability because I wasn't together the whole time. We had the separation, came back together. What was the moment where you realized this is worth investing and re-upping? What was it? When I didn't have it. I mean, when I had time to really sit with, you know, being on my own and think about it. And was it loneliness or not sharing your life with someone or not being in a family unit? It was all of those things. And having the space, I guess, I don't know. I don't know. Like I was just like, I realized, oh, I miss, I miss this.

56:52And, and yeah. And then I felt very fortunate that I actually was able to, you know, come back and that we were able to come back. But like, the great thing is, is like every single day, that's never a question, you know, now at this point. But I'm here to interview you, Scott. um no i um i wanted to in what you were saying before we go to the questions i wanted to talk about pick up on what you're saying about the surplus value thing and in the in the book you talk about how much you love your family which i found really moving and i've got a friend who's an author george saunders great author who's written in his short stories and novels about the idea of loving bigger and outside of your own family unit.

57:40This idea of having that willingness to sacrifice outside of those in your immediate blood relations. Yeah. And you wrote, I just wanted to read this before, because I thought it was really moving and it is what you write about your relationship and how you change in terms of appreciating that when you say you say i lost my self-absorption for a moment and thought about the millions maybe billions of people in a constant state of despair over the well-being of their children and this is talking about the family unit which we all feel that connection with our children but um facing everyday things they can't control that they that aren't their fault or their doing that threaten their kids' well-being, except it feels like it's your fault.

58:28Our only real job here is to ensure our kids survive and prosper. Any threat to this survival and hopeful prosperity is the ultimate failure. It cuts to tissue and emotions you didn't know existed. So that idea of what you feel for your own kids, how important do you think the idea of empathy is for those outside your immediate circle is in terms of how we go forward in the world? I think about it in terms of having done work with refugees and seeing the, you know, I think the horrible attitude that our government has towards, you know, people who are vulnerable and how important it is to have that empathy.

59:07Is that something you think about? Yeah, I couch it in the, I talk about the three legs of the stool of masculinity, be a provider. I think it's important that men at least attempt from a very early age to be economically viable. But the whole shooting match, the whole reason why you make money, establish strength, establish skills is you move to the second leg of the stool and that is protection. And what really worries me about our current leadership. So just naturally, young men are going to look to the most powerful person in the world and the richest person in the world for leadership as an example around masculinity.

59:42They're just going to model those people, whether we want them to or not, because the president's the most powerful person in the world, and the richest man in the world has won this game called capitalism. And what I just find so disappointing and so incredibly damaging, and I think it's going to haunt our young men for decades, and it'll take a ton of time to reprogram them, is that these individuals are not taking their prosperity and moving to protection. If you cut aid, if you're the richest man in the world and you're cutting aid to HIV-positive mothers, that should be a reputational extinction event.

1:00:17That is just—

1:00:24The whole point, I think, of masculinity is take care of yourself. Get really fucking strong. A man under the age of 30 has incredible bone structure, more double twitch muscle, and this amazing substance called testosterone. I jokingly say any man under the age of 30 should be able to walk into any room and know if shit got real, they could kill and eat everybody or outrun them. And when you get physically and emotionally and mentally strong, right, you're going to feel better about yourself. You're going to be less prone to mental illness. You're going to be more attractive to potential mates.

1:00:56Who breaks up fights at bars? Really strong, confident people. Who starts fights at bars? people who don't feel very good about themselves. So you protect yourself, you get strong, you protect your family, then you start protecting your community. And the ultimate expression of masculinity, full stop, is you plant trees the shade of which you'll never sit under, right? Well, you're talking about your work as refugees. That's the whole shooting match. And I don't say that to be virtuous. I say that it took me forever to get there. I was so focused on myself and taking care of myself and making money.

1:01:31And I'm not naturally a kind or philanthropic person. And I'm embarrassed to say that, but it's true. These were things I had to learn and I had to appreciate. But what you realize is that if you can get to that outer ring of protecting people you'll never meet, Jesus Christ, that makes you feel like a man. And I'm not suggesting that that's not reward that women can't get. I think they actually have those nurturing instincts come more easily. But that's the whole point of leaning into your manhood. Be really fucking strong. Be really talented. Make a shit ton of money. Get influence. Be smart.

1:02:05Be generous. Be kind. And then start, if you can, protecting others. That's the basis of masculinity. If you think about the most masculine jobs, military, firemen, cop, at the end of the day, they protect. And I think that A lot of men, the men we're supposed to look up to, have totally missed the boat on protection. Why on earth would you make that much money if you didn't use it to protect people? It makes absolutely no goddamn sense to me. And these are the worst role models for young men. They conflate masculinity with coarseness and cruelty. That couldn't be more any anti-masculine. Being sued by two women concurrently for sole custody of that child because you've never seen that child, Elon Musk, that couldn't be any more anti-masculine.

1:03:03Punching down. And our nation, quite frankly, is not very nurturing or masculine right now. 20 % of people, Americans, are under the age of 18, but 40 % of kids under the age of 18 are on food stamps. That means we have decided we are no longer in the business of protecting the most vulnerable. Our nation is losing its roots of protection and masculinity. I think women heal. I think the most successful families and the most successful alliance in history, and I'm going to work on hopefully flipping Congress, and I want to get involved in politics in terms of helping someone retake the White House.

1:03:40but restoring

1:03:50that is so pandering to this audience but I think the theme for the next 10 years in America has to be restoration of alliances alliances with our great trading partners alliances between moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats that see themselves as Americans before their parties first but also I think we need to restore the greatest alliance in history and that's the alliance between men and women. And what each gender has done a great job of is trying to convince themselves that it's the other gender's fault. I know when a young man is like unsavable, he starts blaming immigrants for his economic problems and he starts blaming women for his romantic problems.

1:04:29It's like, there's nothing I can do, boss. You've lost the script. And at the same time, just to be an equal opportunity criticizer here, a lot of young women have absolutely no empathy for young men. There's this movement on TikTok where women are saying they won't date. They've stopped dating because they're worried about being unalived. I don't know if any of you have seen these things have gone viral, meaning they're worried they'll be murdered by this violent pathological group called young men. And here's the data. If a man goes on a date, he's 16 times more likely to go home and hurt himself than hurt his date.

1:05:04You're four times more likely to get hurt on the car ride over or choke during dinner than to be hurt by a man. Men are dangerous. Young men are not doing well and they're dangerous, but they're dangerous towards themselves. And just saying to young men, you don't have problems, you are the problem. We need empathy from women. Women have to lead this dialogue, especially mothers. And young men need to recognize we need to celebrate the progress of our sisters and mothers. But for God's sakes, I have seven and a half billion points of evidence that the greatest alliance in history is the alliance between men and women.

1:05:39The happiest households in the world bring a combination of masculine and feminine energy. And by the way, two women can bring masculine and feminine energy. I'm drawn, my close friends are generally more feminine. I like nurturing, caring men. I'm more drawn towards feminine attributes than men. None of these qualities are sequestered to people born as a certain gender. But young men have an easier time leaning into more masculine attributes, and we need to recast them as something wonderful. There's no such thing as toxic masculinity. There's cruelty, there's abuse, there's violence. Those couldn't be more non-masculine.

1:06:16But for God's sakes, let's lift each other up. This shit, men and women together bringing a mix of that incredible femininity and masculinity, that's the whole fucking shooting match. That's the most rewarding thing ever. So let's decide we're allies again instead of finding reasons why it's the other gender's fault. Let's get out there.

1:06:44All right. We're getting close to the end, so I'm going to just ask a couple of these questions. Oh, wow. Thank God. Oh, this was your idea. Thank God. This is not about Stiller's soda. It's so good to see you finally making some money. Okay. Stiller's soda. Ben doesn't drink. That's why we'll never be close. Thank you. Okay. So he started... We can do chocolate mushrooms. He started a soda line. What's mine? I asked for your input on branding. You do branding. You just wanted access to my social. It's like when candidates call me for advice. They just want my money. Cheers, brother. Cheers, man.

1:07:18Cheers. Good to see you. Good to see you. Thank you. Okay, here's a couple of questions. And going off of what you just talked about, which was pretty profound, how big of a role does repressed emotion play in this young men, all men issue? And is therapy helpful? I don't feel really qualified to comment on that. I'll just say from a personal standpoint that I'm not an adolescent psychiatrist. I just don't have any domain expertise here. And people are constantly fond of reminding me on Twitter that I have no domain expertise in this area. What I will say is the following. This is just personal.

1:07:58From the age of 29 to 44, I didn't cry. Do you cry a lot? I do more now. Now, yeah. Yeah. Meet the parents for.

1:08:10We really needed that.

1:08:15Anyways, from the age of 29 to 44. You're not getting invited to the premiere. From the age of 29 to 44, didn't cry once. Didn't cry when my mother died. Didn't when my company went chapter 11, you know, just didn't, didn't cry when I got divorced, just didn't, just lost the, I forgot how, literally forgot how. And then I started again. And what the advice I would give to any man is that life goes, especially as you get older, life starts falling off a cliff. Years become quarters, quarters become months, months become, and I'm an atheist. I think at some point I'll look into my kids' eyes and know our relationship is coming to an end.

1:08:56But it kind of liberates me to be a little bit more fearless with my emotions. And what I started doing, and it's been just a gift, is when something moves me, I weep up and I cry. And unfortunately, it's gone a little bit overboard. I cried on The View and The Daily Show. But my suggestion or advice to men is don't fall into some sort of fucked up sense of masculinity that there's a good reason why men don't want to cry or exhibit weakness. Because for about 99 % of our time on this planet, if you exhibited weakness to another man, there's a decent chance he might sense that weakness, kill you, have sex with your wife, and then eat your children.

1:09:33So men have been taught instinctively not to in any way exhibit weakness. Vulnerability is not something that's hardwired into our DNA. But if you see something that inspires you, You need, in my opinion, my advice would be to stop and really bask in it and try and understand why this thing inspires you. This piece of art, this piece of design, something you've read, read it again and really try and understand and inform your emotions. Why does this move you? Try and let yourself lean into crying. When you find something funny, do your best to laugh out loud because you need to slow life down.

1:10:14You need to inform yourself. And I find that I'm much less prone to real anxiety and real anger, both of which I suffer from, if I'm more in touch and registering emotions. I just think it's healthy. It informs your life. It slows life down. In terms of at what point that type of repression impacts a kid psychologically, the honest answer is I don't. I don't feel like I have the domain expertise. Why are you crying more, Ben? Because I don't know. I mean, I think, I mean, also like, you know, when you're an actor too, like you're sensitive sometimes, you know, and it's like kind of like that stuff is actually stuff that you try to somehow be in touch with.

1:11:03But like in life for me, I think I just value everything that I have. I'm more self-aware. And maybe, I don't know, maybe it's because life, you know, things I've gone through in life, losing my parents, appreciating that, them as people, watching my kids grow up, seeing how they become people. Cats in the cradle is true, you know, on a certain level. It's life happening to you. So I feel like it's a good thing, too. And I think what you're talking about also is not just you're talking about like stopping and experiencing the moment of what's happening in terms of something that moves you. Like actually, because we're just all going a million miles an hour with social media and TV and life and everything.

1:11:51If you're saying like stop and actually experience the moment and think about what you're feeling and feel it and just be in the moment. And that I think is a very important thing too. We're sentient beings. The fear or the danger is you rip through life, maybe make some money, maybe had a couple of kids. But did you ever really feel anything? Like at the end of your life, like did your life really happen? Right. So my sense is if you're committed to squeezing as much juice out of this lime called life as possible, if you aren't regularly practicing feeling shit, your life will go like that. And at the end of your life, you're going to regret not having slowed it down and being what it is to be human.

1:12:31It's sentient means feeling. I'm not good at it. I'm getting better at it. But I think it's great advice for all men. Live your life. Feel shit. Lean into it. Do you feel like when you watch something or listen to music or watch a movie or something, it, like, unlocks something for you? Or do you find it's just happening in real life more? Oh, I get a lot of it from art. I can't watch Modern Family without tearing up. Okay.

1:12:55I do think Meet the Parents 4 might... Really bring it out?

1:13:02Okay. All right. I'm going to do one last question. How did I agree to see this shit? What is your perspective on the role of a man that is a father of a girl? How do you have that some impact without a male child to show the way? Can you hear? I couldn't quite. A doctor wrote this. Or the person. I think, and my wife's going to kill me when I say this. We have two boys, and she wanted a third. and I said no I was so freaked out about I mean the reality is you have your world of work you have your world of friends you have your world of kids something comes off the tracks with one of your kids and your whole world you know that's it the whole world just shrinks to that kid and like most people we knew people who had had issues with their kids I mean not huge issues whatever, you know, pick your acronym.

1:14:01And my attitude was, we're good. We know our two kids are pretty, you know, either going to be good or great. Let's cash out of the table. We're pushing our luck, our odds. And also to be blunt, I wasn't making a lot of money. And the most stressed I've ever felt when Beata gave birth to our first child, it was right during the teeth of the great financial recession and I was basically broke. I basically lost everything. I've been rich three times, which means I've lost it all twice. And the great financial recession came along and just wiped me out. And the first thing I felt when Alec had the poor judgment to come marching out of Beata at the wrong time, it was not bright lights and Beata will confirm this.

1:14:50It's not bright lights and angels singing. The first thing I felt was kind of like shame and anxiety because Because the paternal instinct kicked in and I'm like, I've made so much fucking money and I've just blown it. I was so narcissistic and egotistical thinking I should double down on my own companies. I was that idiot that borrowed stock against his company to buy more stock and, you know, never diversified, in it to win it. I'd read these articles about, you know, Bill Gates putting all of his money into his company and Mark Zuckerberg turning down a billion dollars. And I bought so into that kind of macho.

1:15:28And then we had a kid at exactly the wrong time for me. And I was just worried I wasn't going to have the economic security to handle three kids, especially in New York. So, yeah, I don't want to pretend where I was headed with this. One of my biggest regrets is not having a third and not having a girl. And now it's for selfish reasons because girls take care of their dads. but I don't know if I have any specific advice on parenting girls versus boys. You have a daughter, so... Yeah, no. No? Wrong person, yeah. Yeah. All right, listen, this has been great. I seriously, you are incredible. Scott Galloway is incredible.

1:16:20What a resource. sweating amazingly to talk for another two hours here.

1:16:28And, yeah, thanks everybody for coming and buy the book. It's really, really good. And I hope you do what you said and you'll get more involved in this next election cycle. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Ben. Thank you.

1:17:17Thank you. to collaborate and create amazing presentations, videos, social posts, flyers, and more. Meet Adobe Express, the quick and easy app to create on-brand content. Learn more at adobe.com slash express slash business.