Office Hours Special: The Future of Work Part 1

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0:36Welcome to the Prop2Pod's Office Hours. This is the part of the show where we answer questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. Today, we're kicking off a special three-part series answering your questions surrounding the future of work, something we've been covering for the past several years. Yeah, I've always thought when people say, what's the most enduring change from COVID? I've said it's remote work. It just, it feels like we're not going back to the before time. Most everybody likes some sort of hybrid model. The number of people, the percentage of people who want to never come into an office again is pretty small.

1:11There is some disconcerting evidence that we tend to promote narcissists consistently because we mistake their confidence for competence. Also, also, what makes a good manager? Accountability. You hold people accountable. Connections to people matter a lot. So, you know, if you have a choice, and increasingly we do, between being in the office or being home, your career is quite likely to suffer if you are home and your peers are in the office. The best way to get leverage if you want to make more compensation at your current role is to get another offer from an outside company. It turns out the best managers are not the people who are the biggest brainmakers in those individual contributor jobs.

1:54They're the people who are the most collaborative in helping their colleagues sell. I find it's almost impossible to build a culture remotely.

2:08So with that, let's bust into our first question. Question number one. Prop G, two years ago, I was hired as a CEO from an outside company to take the helm of a firm with 251 employees. This firm is a subsidiary of a large privately held company. I'm facing significant friction with some legacy team members who aren't meeting performance expectations or aligning with our evolving culture. Given your expertise, what strategies would you recommend for implementing large-scale cultural change and enhancing performance among a legacy team? What successful strategies have you seen implemented that create a unique culture for subsidiary companies while remaining respectful and cognizant of the parent organization's own cultural goals.

2:50Separately, I'm 44 years old with four young kids, eight and under. I grew up with parents that ran a company together and often and understandably brought work home. I'd like to have a clear delineation between work and family life. What are some things you do to separate work from family life to remain in the present moment? Thanks for all you do. Okay, anonymous. All right, CEO of a company with 250 employees. Significant friction with some legacy team members who aren't meaning performance expectations are aligning with our evolving culture, I'd fire them. I know that's not a Hallmark commercial.

3:21I would figure out which of them are a bit wary, but really good at what they do. And like, you're the CEO, you know, it's quite frankly, it's not, and this is not going to sound aspirational. It's not, it's not your job to get along with them. It's your job to understand them and motivate them, but it's their job to get along with you. And if you find that a couple members of this team, for whatever reason, are just not signed up, I'd fire them. And hopefully your board would support that decision. At the same time, what I also like to do when I've come into a strange situation, senior other people, a couple of times I've taken on leadership roles from a board level, the person who thought they were going to be CEO, if they're good, I try and elevate them and give them compensation such that, look, I know you didn't get the job, but I'm going to figure out a way for you to make a lot of money here.

4:11And then when I move on, maybe you're the CEO. I think you have to assess the situation. And if you're spending a lot of energy and time trying to get people on board, kick them overboard. And I know that's not aspirational, but you're in charge, and you're the CEO, and you got 250 people. So it's not like it's, you know, a firm of only eight or 10 people. In terms of the work-life balance, I don't think there is. I just think that's really difficult. The CEO of a 250-person company, this isn't, again, this probably isn't the answer you want. Your inbox is never going to be empty, especially starting.

4:49You got to prove yourself. You got to make some progress. What I would suggest is that you carve out certain time, turn off the phone, turn off your notifications, but there's just no getting around it. I didn't really see my kids much before the age of three or four. I was just working all the goddamn time, But either did my wife. She was working at Goldman Sachs at the time. And we decided we made the conscious decision to trade off time with him then so we could have more time with him now. And it worked out. But I don't know if there's a secret. My sense is kids like consistency and ceremony.

5:22So I would always, with my oldest when he was a baby, I would come home and bathe him. And then I'd go back to work. and then I would come back for bedtime a couple hours later. And fortunately, I lived around the corner and I had this practice where I would stretch him. And I would do all these, I used to do a lot of yoga when I was younger. And I would take him through these series of stretches and he would look out at me and I thought that was actually quite bonding. And he would, a couple of times, and I wish I had video of this, late at night, I'd get him and I'd lay him out and I'd change his diaper and he would start putting one leg over the other because he knew he was about to be stretched.

5:58but she'd start doing his own stretches. But I think kids love consistency in ceremonies. So if you can, if you are in a position to always have on certain nights family dinner, if dad always prepares their lunch, I'm really enjoying now my 13-year-old's at home and every morning I see him off to school and I really like it. And we have a little bit of a ceremony. I wake him up. He acts like an asshole to me. Like I'm really enjoying waking him up. But I make him breakfast. I put his jacket. I heat it up in this like weird thing here in Britain. and then I give him his jacket, he's off to school.

6:31But I think that ceremony is meaningful to them. My hack is to be in the presence of my kids when they're not looking directly at me. What do I mean by that? When I sit down and talk directly to them, I think this is more true of boys. I think girls have an easier time making a social connection. But what I try to do is I try to never miss an opportunity to be in the presence of my sons when they're not looking at me. What do I mean by that? Walks, car rides. I don't mind being the Uber driver on weekends because I found that if you're in the car and you're not supposed to talk and they're not looking at you or you're not looking at them expecting anything, that occasionally some interesting things spill out of their mouth.

7:13So I like asking them to come to the store with me, taking walks with them, but trying to find situations where you're in their presence, but not necessarily doing an activity and not necessarily demanding or expecting any sort of engagement and things kind of come out. And then the other thing I would say just in general is try and identify a hobby that they're into and then really lean into it. I could give a shit about sports. And I am now really into the Premier League because my kids are into it. And then my final thing, try and carve out time. And this isn't easy with four kids, but try and carve out one weekend a year for each of them versus you and that kid.

7:57Right? I take my kids to different Champions League games or different football games across different cities in Europe. And I say to them, all right, this weekend's coming up. You got to pick it. And we do stuff or it can be something else. My youngest really wanted to go to Universal in L.A. But every year you're going to have overnight somewhere with just that one kid. I find that the dynamic is so different, mostly when the kids aren't around their mother, but also when they're not around their siblings. But I think if you can manage to do those things, which isn't easy, you're going to be fine.

8:33But also forgive yourself. You're working your ass off. You're the CEO of a small company. It's a big opportunity. And that opportunity is to perform well and for dad to be happy and feel relevant, but also to create economic security for you and your family. So if you're not around all the time, you're just going to have to sacrifice shit. I missed spring concerts and, you know, put a strain on my marriage. And it was, but forgive yourself. So the reason you're doing this, this is a means to the ends. And the ends is that you're going to have the economic security and the achievement such you can spend a lot of time with your kids.

9:07Appreciate the question. Question number two. Hey, Scott. Spencer from NYC here. First off, a huge fan of the show. always take your advice as gospel and follow you into war without hesitation if I could. Seriously, thanks for everything that you do. I'm a 29-year-old going on 30. I'm about 10 months into a job that I'm really proud of as a PR manager at a Fortune 500 tech company. The hitch is I work almost 100 % remotely alone in a studio apartment, and I've deduced I work on average about three to four hours a day, simply because there just isn't enough work to go around. I think while some people might be envious of that, I'm actually finding the pressure to capitalize on all of this free time and to do something productive with it is kind of eating me alive.

9:59So the question is, what would you do if you were in my shoes and at my age? I don't have any kids, and I know you're not a fan of side hustles. Definitely don't want a second job on the sly. So that's about it. Just having a lot of analysis paralysis right now. Would really love your thoughts. All the best for Manhattan, and thanks again. Well, first off, Spencer, it's good to meet you. And also, the fact you would follow me into battle, I would like you to, if you can, enter into a romantic relationship with Gisele Bündchen or Emily Ratajkowski or maybe, who else is super young and hot, Justin Theroux.

10:37Have about 40 kids with them. And then all of us are going to take over Australia where I will be king of Australia. Not sure I got any of that. Anyways. Okay. So this is such a good fucking problem. The first thing is get ridiculously fit six days a week at the age of 29. You're going to look back on your bone structure and your double twitch muscle and your reflexes and your balance. You go, Oh my God, I was just a specimen. Get one of these apps, get a personal trainer, whatever it is, and take this period to just get insanely fit. And for you, that might be different. You might decide I wanna be insanely flexible or I wanna be insanely lean or I wanna be insanely strong or have incredible endurance, whatever it might be.

11:17But there's no excuse for you right now not to get in absolutely the best shape of your life. Is there an opportunity to go much, much deeper into your domain and take some of that spare time and either take online courses or I like the idea of going to school. I don't know if going back to school, but it sounds to me like you need to get out of the house a little bit. Is there a place where you can go and start learning, you know, as an MBA, an option, as a master's in anthropology? Shit, I don't know. What inspires you? But go take advantage of this free time and go become a master at something.

11:52I think that mastery or the ability, being young with the neuroplasticity you have, with the discipline you have, living in New York with the access to all this incredible domain expertise, think, how could I become a master in something? You said that you're, I think, a PR manager. Start writing and start trying to communicate and develop a brand in that domain. I started when about 15 years ago, we rented a house in the Hamptons for the summer. And I thought, okay, this Twitter thing, I need to build my footprint and my profile. Every day, I'm going to follow 300 people, which was the max at that time before they blew you off the platform.

12:29And at that point, 60 % followed you back. So every day I got another 180 followers. And now I have, I don't use Twitter anymore because I think the person that owns it is not a nice man, but I think I have five or 600 ,000 followers there. And I started doing the same thing on LinkedIn. Then I started doing the same thing on Instagram. And I started writing and creating a ton of content in my area, brand strategy, and then how technology disrupts traditional industry. What is your niche? Start writing about it, start posting about it, start doing videos, whatever it is, right? You're this shit, but start building a brand and a profile for yourself across all of these different platforms, whether it's LinkedIn, whether it's Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Medium.

13:12But take that extra time to get ridiculously fucking strong and ridiculously present in your field. Make your footprint bigger and bigger and bigger and take advantage of all these platforms and your ability to build your footprint, your brand, your reputation, such that when some big job comes along, they think, well, what about that crazy dude in New York who keeps writing about crisis management in the pharmaceutical industry? He's an expert. Or maybe you start writing books on it, or maybe you get speaking gigs, and maybe you move to the UK and start doing edibles. Well, anyways, Spencer, again, this is a good problem.

13:45Thanks for the question. We have one quick break before our final question. Stay with us.

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14:28EPCLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to EPCLIS. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EPCLIS. Before starting EPCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Searching for real relief? Ask your doctor about EPCLIS and visit ebclus.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Welcome back. Question number three. Hey, Prof G. With companies starting to mandate some form of return to office, many employees' sentiment is anecdotally against this motion.

15:04I think the gap today is a lack of proof or measurable results that return to office is making a meaningful impact to a business, ultimately causing a disconnect between leadership and their employees. If you were a leader in a company, what metrics would you look at to measure the success of return to office? How would you communicate this to the employee population? And does it matter? It's a really interesting question. If I were going to start over in academia, I would focus on the intersection between human capital and the workplace. How do you measure it? That's a really interesting thought.

15:37Data from the U.S. Census Bureau Household Pulse Survey indicates that the prevalence of remote work in the U.S. households has reached an all-time low since the onset of the pandemic. Today, 26 % of U.S. households have someone working remotely at least one day a week, a drop from 37 % peak in early 21. So it has gone down, but it's still holding pretty strong. According to Gallup, employees favor being in the office for two to three days a week. We talked about this. I feel like everyone was acting as if it was remote or all in the office. Of course, it was going to be mostly hybrid. So what are the benefits of going into the office personally?

16:14Work-life balance. According to a 2021 study in the American Psychiatric Association, two-thirds of employees working remotely reported difficulties in disconnecting from work at the end of the day. day. And also just human connection. We're mammals. We need to be around other people. The same 2021 APA survey found that two-thirds of people working from home feel isolated or lonely, at least sometimes, and 70 % do all the time. So, you know, my rap on this is that remote work is a fucking disaster for people under the age of 30. I believe there should be two classifications. There should be a remote worker.

16:45That's the wrong term. A care worker. Once you have kids, aging parents, struggling with your own health, your own mental health, I think that person should get a different classification and be offered resources and opportunities to work remotely a lot. Before you collect dogs and kids, oh my God, get back into the office. Friends, mentors, potential men. One in three relationships begin at work, for God's sakes. Where are young people supposed to meet partners, wives, other founders, great friends? It's about hitting the pub after work. It's about grabbing a coffee and getting advice from someone.

17:19Nothing wonderful is ever going to happen to you over Zoom, in my view. Anyway, what are the metrics? I would also say retention. Something I'm very proud of at Prof G, we let people do what they want. It's interesting. The young people actually want to work in an office. First thing they do, a couple of our star employees moved to London. I said, fine, move to London. The first thing they did was they got an office. They got a co-share. What do you call it? A work share? Uber? No, it's not Uber. It's WeWork. Adam Neumann. Anyways, they got a shared office space. And the young people, because they're exceptionally ambitious, all wanted to be in an office together.

17:50Definitely is some sort of electricity or juataviva or whatever the fuck you want to call it, unknown about getting everyone together. So I would focus on employee satisfaction and I would focus on retention. And I would try, if possible, to try and make it a pull, not a push, that people want to come into the office. And you already see that class A office space has actually never been stronger. the best office space is actually sold out because people or companies are deciding to get people back in the office. We want it to be nice. And then what I would also do is even if you can't get everyone back in the office all the time, I would take some of the money you save from a smaller commercial footprint and I would spend it on retreats where you get everyone together.

18:34I think it's just so important that people feel a sense of connective tissue. And I think that can only be established in person. But the bottom line is, I think 80 to 90 % of firms will end up with some sort of hybrid structure. Thanks so much for the question. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehours at propgmedia.com. Again, that's officehours at propgmedia.com.

19:06This episode was produced by Caroline Shagrin. Jennifer Sanchez is our associate producer and Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from the Box Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn, and on Monday with our weekly market show.