Raging Moderates: Can Democrats Criticize Trump’s Invasion Without Defending Maduro?

26:09Like, I'm listening to you. I hear you. Let me know what you're going through. And how can we try to just find solutions to these problems. And, you know, I know I got a little bit philosophical there, but like, I think that that is a framework actually that defeats the easy answer when you just let people know, like, we care about you and we're listening to you and this isn't going to be easy, but we're going to work together and we're going to get this done. Yeah. I like that also because it doesn't have any specific ideology. Like there are people from across the spectrum that satisfy that thirst that people have to be seen and to be heard.

26:44Because, you know, you mentioned AOC and Bernie Sanders and Mom Donnie, but Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger were also talking that same way to people, right? And talking about costs and that they had a plan to fix it. So I think that was a great 90-minute answer to my 90-minute question. We're going to take a quick break. Stay with us.

27:09All right. Welcome back. There's a big political shakeup out of Minnesota. Just announced yesterday that Governor Tim Walls says he's dropping his bid for a historic third term as a massive welfare fraud scandal continues to escalate. Walls insists he's not accused of wrongdoing. He doesn't just insist that he is not accused of wrongdoing. But the fallout from federal indictments to a viral conservative video to an upcoming House oversight hearing has turned a state level investigation into a national flashpoint. Right. So what actually happened here, what responsibility does leadership bear and how does this reshape Minnesota politics heading into the midterms?

27:42Ben, were you surprised that Walls announced he wasn't going to run? Yeah, nothing surprises me anymore, you know, when I wake up. Nothing surprises me. You know, it seemed to be with all of the data points, and we'll see if Klobuchar steps into the race, which is expected, or we'll see what happens next. But like, you know, it seemed for him and where he was at just running for another term. He's the kind of guy who would step out in the right time if he thought that he was now becoming a distraction, you know, to the party. And I think his statement was great where he said, look, I think that the way this has been characterized is false and unfair and not accurate.

28:25And a real serious situation fraud, which we care about prosecuting and we're going after, has been, you know, weaponized in a way to attack an entire immigrant population versus the individuals who are engaged in it. By the way, the ringleader was a white lady, you know, and most of the prosecutions happened under the Biden administration. And there were convictions in 2025 of that lady, you know, and more cases that are still, you know, that are still coming. But he said, to the extent I'm a distraction and I'm holding down the ticket, you know, I don't want to be a distraction, you know, anymore.

29:01You know, and also, I mean, I think I don't know how much this played into it, but, you know, the assassination of Melissa Hortman and Trump continuing to defame the children now, basically, by saying that or defaming Walls. But the whole situation and saying that Walls ordered the assassination, you know, he was posting videos saying Walls was involved in the assassination. I couldn't even follow. I tried to understand most of the conspiracy theories just because, you know, they come up. Right. But that one I could not even figure out. Yeah, well, I guess the theory, conspiracy theory, is that she was, you know, trying to introduce legislation to stop the fraud and she was going to identify it.

29:43And so the hit was announced on her in order because Walls wanted to cover up the wrong. I mean, that's the deranged conspiracy where Hortman's children said, can you please like it's hard enough for us that our mom and her dad were murdered by a guy who was actually a MAGA leaning guy. Can you stop defaming us with our parents being killed? But I just think all of that, you know, was a lot for Governor Walz to handle. And, you know, ultimately, I think it puts the Democrats there in a good position. But I think there's a lot of lessons that should be learned, again, just about how powerful this right wing information or disinformation machine is.

30:23I mean, what's interesting is if you look at that Nick Shirley video, the one that went viral on YouTube, I don't know what it's at now, but when it hit about 160 million views on X, I looked on YouTube at that time and it did about 1.7 million views. And I just found it interesting. It's still a lot of views on YouTube, don't get me wrong, but it was being covered everywhere as though it was the, you know, the Super Bowl of news stories. So what was interesting to me is to see 160 million views, which are really impressions on Twitter, 1.8 million views. And I just found it interesting because I go back to the videos I did yesterday on the Midas Touch YouTube channel.

31:08And in the first three morning videos I did, each of those videos got 1 million to 2 million views on three in a row morning videos. And his, after four days, did 2 million. But the attention that was given to his, because on Twitter, Elon Musk reposted, J.D. Vance reposted, and then it gets automatically. The algorithm there is, it likes what it likes, or it likes what its masters like. And, you know, they're talking about, you know, that he's Pulitzer deserving. And, you know, we talked about it on The Five. And I said, I know there's been back and forth about that particular daycare center that he was at.

31:51And, you know, why would a daycare center also be letting someone in, a man with a camera to go look at children? It seemed like a violation of the rules of a daycare center. But there was no question, of course, that there was fraud in the system feeding our future, the organization that you're where the woman in charge of it, not Somali, a white woman, you know, and rightfully convicted for her crimes there. But I did feel as the story kind of unfolded that Walls was in a terrible spot and that at a certain point, you just like the buck stops with you, even if he wasn't involved in the fraud directly, which the right is alleging.

32:32But there seems to be no proof of that. And Tim Walz doesn't. I don't know him personally, but he does not seem like a guy who would be cool with fraud and just would turn a blind eye to something like that, especially where he's so prideful about how well run Minnesota is as a state. I think it's sixth best in the country for business. But think about this, Jessica, before I lose this thread. The PPP program that Trump rolled out with very little safeguards, whatever the number is of missing funds, 500 billion to 2 trillion, you know, there's all different numbers. Oh, yeah. It could be in the trillions.

33:06And if you directly want to trace a program that was sculpted by somebody without the safeguards. I mean, you're talking about like literally it could be a trillion dollars in missing money that nobody knows where it is. But no, they don't care about that. They don't care about that. No, it's crazy. And also I brought this up when we were talking about it. I said, what about this guy, Philip S. form. You know, the nursing home mogul who defrauded people out of$1.3 billion. Trump commuted his sentence, David Gentile,$1.6 billion. Like, we can't hold them to any sort of normal human standard or any sort of normal hypocrisy standard.

33:47Think about this, Jessica, and I have a question for you. This is why what you do is so incredibly important, because if you aren't doing it, who else is doing it? But, you know, you're having to debate issues that, you know, are being thrown in these directions as almost like traps. And they're traps as Trump tries to distract from the Epstein files, as Trump tries to distract from the fact that his economy is not helping the American people. And it's a hard thing because you're arguing with a group of people who already have framed an argument in a way before it even starts with an outcome to bring you on a direction that you're like, but shouldn't we be talking about this, this and that?

34:36So that's the thing, though, that you always have to contend with every day that I admire when you have to pivot it back to say, OK, but what about what the American people are going through? Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And I definitely feel like I'm always starting from a bit of a disadvantage. It is why I like going last, though, like batting cleanup is a lot easier because I'm always taking notes. I'm like, I want to say this about this and this about that. But also, I have to spend time thinking about these facets of a story that I wouldn't normally because, you know, Hunter Biden is always my favorite example that people who think that Joe Biden was running like a crime boss family are talking about like diamonds coming from Mexico and whatever's going on with oligarchs from Belarus and like all this stuff.

35:24And you need to know what's going on in order to talk about it. And the fraud scandal wasn't quite on that level, but definitely had to know what the perspective of, you know, the Nick Shirley supporters or acolytes or whatever you want to call them are. And it's obviously hugely important that the administration threw their weight behind this and that factored into Tim Walz's decision because it was going to be a hellscape, right, like battling through this primary and then a general election like this. And there's been reporting that the Republican Party in Minnesota coordinated with Nick Shirley when it came to that viral video.

36:02I love Amy Klobuchar. I hope that she is getting in on this gubernatorial race. I think that she will wipe the floor with them and they kind of would wish actually that they were running against Tim Walz. But I want to circle back to what you said about the media environment, because I think that this relates directly to what you guys are doing at Midas. Because I've seen a lot of people, you know, posting online about the asymmetry in our media chambers, like the left versus the right. So you wouldn't have a Republican resigning for any perceived scandal anyway. But this really speaks to the fact that Democrats don't have a good media strategy to protect Democrats and to fight back against bad information.

36:43And that's not to say, again, that the fraud scandal isn't real. It is absolutely real. And some of it is absolutely appalling. But what do you make of that from, you know, the lens of someone who has built this enormous left wing media network? You know, as I've built it out, you know, at first when I started this, first time, I never liked politics in general. I mean, I interned on the Hill, but then I became a civil rights lawyer. Yeah, Colin Kaepernick's lawyer. I was Kaepernick's lawyer in the NFL case, but I never really liked politics. Then COVID happens and I was really scared. So I just wanted to speak about what was going on.

37:23And then I thought I was speaking in a political voice. So then I started saying, I guess what I am is I'm political and this is where I fit on a political spectrum. So here's what I am. And then what I've learned kind of over the year period before the January 6th insurrection is actually that, and my wife will disagree with me when I say, I actually still don't like politics in the sense of the gamified nature of a political fight. And she goes, yes, you love politics. All you do is talk about politics. And I said, no, what I really care about most about the network is the people. And there's a reason that our message on Midas not only resonates with people in the United States, but as we build out and built out Midas Canada, you know, what I'll hear is in a small mining town in northern Ontario, there'll be people who this message resonates with who would otherwise be voting for a Pierre Poliev or a conservative party.

38:19And the same messaging is working in Australia. And so the question is, is why is that happening? And I've been thinking about this. And I actually think it's because the core values and principles that we talk about are relatable on an international human level to combat a lot of the forces happening on the right wing. And I guess it's a decent time to talk about that now. I alluded to this earlier. I think Trump's a vessel of a broader right wing talking point regime that's found a good vessel in him. And in America, everything is bigger and louder and more obnoxious sometimes. And they found it, you know, in this Trump orange monster, whatever you want to, you know, say that he is.

39:03But the talking points there are very similar to the special operation, this and that, you know, and the immigration rhetoric. It's very similar to how Orban sounds in Hungary. It's the language that Putin uses. It's the language that Pierre Poliev in Canada was using, you know, before Carney really stepped in the race and neutralized that. It's the same language they're utilizing in Austria. You know, so it's all part of this broader framework. And I think that that needs to be understood by the Democratic party or anybody, that there's a broader force at play that's tested, not just in laboratories of autocracy in states, but laboratories of autocracies internationally.

39:44And Democrats, I think the only way to combat a lot of what you see on the right wing is by being human and not being robotic and not being so laboratory tested and emoting and showing people that you care about them truthfully. And so when we talk about Democrats building a media environment, I truly believe, and it's not to end this on a corny note of like, love will beat hate, but to some extent, you have to deal with these broader forces of what galvanizes and energizes and excites people. And that actually is kind of bringing people together and reminding people that there's a way to be happy together.

40:25And there's a way to help and live in a world that isn't filled with toxicity and hate every day. You know, when Obama ran on hope, right? I was going to say hope and change, which is the last time we really had a galvanizing force or political message, I think, on the left that resonated and even resonated over to some moderate Republicans. Right. Right. So I just think that's the biggest reason for the success of the network. And I think when When Democrats go up there and speak, whether it's on our network or any other network, they have to recognize who they're speaking to. And they're speaking to someone who's scared, who feels alone, who feels that they're not being defended, who feels, you know, very confused.

41:09and I've rarely seen a politician like look into the camera and say, I care about you. And I hear like, you don't hear that. You know, I care about you. I hear you. I'm listening to you. Tell me how you feel. And that combined with the right media ecosystem, I think is the right way to grow something special and different. Well, you would be the guy who would know about what can be done and how to build a successful network. So invaluable tips on that. And I like it because I'm a softie that way. I want someone to look into the camera and tell me that they care about me. So hopefully we'll be seeing more of that in the midterms.

41:48We're going to take one more quick break. Make sure you guys stay with us.

41:56Welcome back. Last story of the day. I want to talk about this billionaire tax proposal. So Silicon Valley is having a very public family fight aims straight at its own congressman, Rep. Ro Khanna, friend of the show, who's backing a proposed one-time billionaire wealth tax in California. Some of the richest constituents are furious. I think he has the wealthiest district in the country, right, Ro? Right. Furious enough to talk about funding a primary challenger, which no one likes to hear if you're a sitting congressperson. This is ground zero for the next phase of the inequality debate. What happens when the AI boom mints more billionaires, squeezes middle-class jobs, and politicians start testing how far voters and donors are willing to go.

42:36What's your take overall on a billionaire wealth tax? I think that there should be one. I think that first you start off with billionaires paying their fair share, which they're not doing right now, even as it is. In an income tax, not like a straight wealth tax, just like raising the income tax level, closing loopholes or in a kind of... Both. I mean, I... I think first you have to start off with saying why in our tax code are there, why is there basically subsidies for billionaires and a welfare program for billionaires built into our tax code in either tax shelters or deductions or why do they get to, you don't want to pay taxes on a huge chunk of your change.

43:27You can go and buy private jets and then depreciate the value of your, I mean, so there's stuff like that that I think to the average American should just piss you off. You know, and then when there's a broader question of should there be a billionaire tax, you know, ultimately, I think the amount of money that billionaires, and I think Mamdani made this argument on a podcast, the amount of money you spent to fight me was less than what the tax would have been that could actually, you know, help the people. So you're spending more annually to attack me than you are to be taxed, which tells you that on the opposite side of that equation, they're making far much more money in the aggregate than what the tax would ultimately be.

44:10And so my view is that they should be taxed more. I'm fine with the billionaire tax. I think it needs to be sculpted the right way. Ultimately, some of the arguments that I hear made seem to be kind of these red herring arguments of, well, what happens to the founder who's making$150 ,000 a year, but his paper wealth is actually a billion dollars because they haven't been able to go liquid yet. So now you're saying that that person who's technically has a net worth of a billion dollars needs to pay. And then I think Ro Khanna's response to some of the tech bro attack on that was, of course, we have to deal with those situations differently.

44:48But the question is, is where there is this liquid billions and billions of dollars that are that are, you know, in income. And ultimately, ultimately, I think it's in the interest of the billionaire to want to do that in order to have a better society and to have a better, you know, how many jets do you need? How many yachts do you need? How many mansions do you need? I mean, you need 15 mansions and 10 private jets. I think that's going to be a tough sell to some of these guys. I can't wait to see you go out there and say, you guys, this will make you happier if I take 5 % of your assets. I just want to quickly give some background, though, for our listeners.

45:32So this is a proposed ballot initiative. It's being shopped around by the SEIU, the union. It would be a one-time 5 % tax on the estimated 255 billionaires in California. It wouldn't tax income. It would just tax assets. The idea or where they came up with this is to try to claw back some of the money for health care that's stripped away in the big, beautiful bill, which will come fully into effect this year. About 90 cents of every dollar raised by the tax would be spent on health care, while the remaining 10 cents would be earmarked for food assistance or education as per the proposal. What's interesting about Kana backing it is Gavin Newsom is not.

46:11So he's against a wealth tax. He has been consistently. He's on the record for several years. and wealth taxes have been tried all over the world. France, Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Finland, Iceland, they all discarded their wealth taxes and said to your point about the specific cases, well, we have to make sure that in this case, we don't do this. It was basically too hard to administer and it was bringing in not enough money to make it worthwhile, which I didn't know and thought was interesting for the amount of folks that are prominent, especially on the left that talk like this, like the Bernie Sanderses and the Elizabeth Warrens of the world.

46:47A lot of countries that they think are run better than we are have scrapped their wealth taxes. Yeah. You know, that's where, though, a clear articulation of the issues need to happen. I mean, I think where the American people feel is that what we've seen take place since the 60s and the 70s, once upon a time, everybody can have this American dream. you could work a job, you can buy a home, you can afford college, you can go on a vacation, and that was your life. And you could raise kids and you were comfortable. Your kids could have a better life than you or a similar life than you. And you can call that an American dream.

47:29But then as private equity started buying up the homes and everything became commoditized and the CEO salary ended up being 2 ,000 or three times the salary of the average worker or all of these tax loopholes where the richest people are now paying not just less of a tax rate, but sometimes just underlying less taxes than like a teacher makes. I mean, when you looked at Donald Trump's taxes that were produced, there were a number of years where he literally paid like$0 or the filing fee of$750. So I think the broader frustration of people is seeing this unaccountable class of billionaires that is getting a form of welfare, but for billionaires, and they get bailed out of everything.

48:15The first talk about subsidies that are acceptable to Donald Trump, bringing this episode full circle, are subsidies for oil companies to go into Venezuela, but we're not extending the Affordable Care Act subsidies to allow the American people to afford their healthcare. So the broader issue is framed around this massive wealth inequality that gets more massive by the day. And how do we approach it? And I think Kana has an approach. I think Gavin has an approach. And I think ultimately the right solution is probably somewhere, you know, in the middle between those two approaches, but is to figure out how do we get back to a system where billionaires are paying their fair share.

49:01And the first thing we do in a tax code is not to rush to help them, but we rush to help people who are hanging on a thread about their existence and their survival. Health care over private jets seems like a pretty easy sell to basically everyone that votes except a few of the private jet owners. I just quickly before we go, I'm curious, what are you thinking about for 2028? Are there any candidates or potential candidates in particular that you're interested in? And do you think I should have asked you this in the Minnesota section? I mean, Tim Walz is now not going to be thinking about 2028, obviously, that he is not running.

49:39Do you agree with that? Yeah, I agree. Yeah, OK. I agree. I'm just making sure. I think the way I think about it is less, you know, who do I like or not like? And it's more what are the paths that exist? I think the path is going to be someone who strongly stands up to Trump during these difficult times. And I think that there are different ways about doing it. And I think that there's a governor's path. Strong governor stands up. And I think when you see Governor Newsom, what he did with Prop 50, I think the benefits of that will also be seen again in the midterms. And he'll be able to claim a victory then.

50:18I think that there's a path there. So if you look at governors, you know, I think Newsom has the leading edge of a governor's path. I think there is like a senator's path where, you know, you have a lot of people, whether it's Murphy or Gallego or Kelly or people who are going to be asserting themselves more now and perhaps that next year if the Democrats take control of the House or the Senate as being real leaders and launching investigations of Trump. So there's that accountability path. And then the third path, you know, is a Mamdani-style path, a democratic socialist path, someone who kind of comes out of nowhere, who's not even polling at 1 % right now, but who galvanizes.

51:03is obviously it can't be a mom, Donnie, let me just be clear about it. But who is that third, you know, that third rail and who's positioning themselves? Who is the right candidate there? Who is unapologetically kind of democratic socialist and who goes out there and says, here's what we're doing. I don't make any apologies about this. And then the question becomes is, well, how does somebody like a Newsom or the governor's path or a senator, you know, member path, how do they deal with that? To me, that I see it more in terms of the paths than who specifically, you know, intrigues me. And I think right now, the favorite would be a Governor Newsom if we were to look at just who, you know, where the position is.

51:47The polymarket of it. But ultimately, for me, we're going to, you know, at the Midas Touch Network, as the race develops, you know, we're not going to pick a person or say this or that. You know, ultimately for us, it's going to be everybody can, you know, say their piece. And on one day, we'll have this interview with someone who's, quote unquote, more moderate and then someone who's, quote unquote, more left. They'll all have a place to share their views to the people and let the people decide. Well, for someone who doesn't like politics, you're also very good at being political. I love that answer.

52:19I see it similarly. I'm also excited by the prospect that maybe the candidate will be someone we're just not thinking about at all. You said not even pulling 1%. Maybe it's just like no one's even considering the possibility of this person. I hope it gets a little bit wild and fun and that we hear some great exchanges of ideas. And also, I'd like to do well in the midterms in the interim. Ben, this was such a pleasure. Thank you for joining me. I'm glad we did this. Always, Scott, we'll be going on more vacations. Feel free to go on more vacations. He's an unstoppable vacation machine. So you're going to be seeing a lot of me.

52:53Amazing. Great to be with you. And thanks for having me on the show. Yeah. And thanks for all that you guys do. Everybody subscribe to Midas Touch, everybody. My brother, Jordi, will be upset if I don't plug it. Subscribe to Midas Touch if you're not already subscribed. Yes. That is implied through the whole thing. Subscribe to Midas Touch. And Raging Moderates, obviously. Yeah.