Raging Moderates: Censoring Stephen Colbert Backfires

11:42Jessica Tarlov:But it is a good precursor for whatever YouTube show or podcast or whatever Colbert is going to be doing come May when he no longer has this job anymore. I feel like you should take a few months off at least. Everyone needs a break.

11:57Scott Galloway:All right. Let's take a quick break. Stay with us.

12:03Scott Galloway:Support for today's show comes from Framer. Let's say your marketing team wants a new landing page, so the design team mocks it up, and then your engineering department, who's already got too much on their plate, responds with, yeah, we'll get to it. Thousands of businesses, from early stage startups to Fortune 500s, are choosing to build their sites in Framer, where changes take minutes instead of days to solve this very problem. Framer's enterprise-grade no-code website builder used by teams at companies including Perplexity and Miro to move faster. With real-time collaboration, a robust CMS with everything you need for great SEO, and advanced analytics that include integrated A-B testing, your designers and marketers are empowered to build and maximize your.com from day one.

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13:18Jessica Tarlov:Rinse knows that greatness takes time, but so does laundry. So Rinse will take your laundry and hand deliver it to your door expertly cleaned. And you can take the time pursuing your passions. Time once spent sorting and waiting, folding and queuing, now spent challenging and innovating and pushing your way to greatness. So pick up the Irish flute or those calligraphy pens or that daunting Beef Wellington recipe card and leave the laundry to us. Rinse. It's time to be great.

13:48Scott Galloway:Hi, this is Kara Swisher. And this week on my podcast on with Kara Swisher, I talked to California Governor Gavin Newsom.

13:55Jessica Tarlov:While he hasn't officially announced to run for president yet, he's telegraphing it all the time. It's exhausting. He's also got a new book out, which is what you do when you're running for president. It's called Young Man in a Hurry. I recently interviewed him live in San Francisco. Have a listen.

14:08Scott Galloway:The problem with the Democratic Party so often is we appear weak and we've got to be stronger and we've got to be more assertive. And so that's, you know, it's the spirit, I think, that is required of this moment.

14:20Jessica Tarlov:I've known Gavin Newsom since he was mayor of San Francisco a million years ago, a million hair gels ago. And he's a really interesting and compelling politician. He's done a lot of things in his career. And this one, this run for presidency, which is going to happen, is among the most interesting. You can find a full conversation wherever you get your podcast and on YouTube, obviously.

14:39Scott Galloway:Be sure to follow and subscribe to On With Kara Swisher for more. Welcome back. The Justice Department says it's wrapped its final release of the Epstein files under the transparency law, but new reporting suggests the public has seen maybe just 2 % of the total data seized. And already, executives, politicians, academics, and even a sitting cabinet secretary are facing the threat of resignations, investigations, and serious reputational damage. Jess, if this is only a fraction of the evidence, why is the DOJ saying they fulfilled the Epstein Files Transparency Act?

15:16Jessica Tarlov:Well, because they're lying, but that's—

15:19Scott Galloway:That makes sense.

15:19Jessica Tarlov:Okay, is that the end of the show?

15:20Scott Galloway:Yeah, there we go.

15:21Jessica Tarlov:Because they're lying.

15:22Scott Galloway:Done. Correct.

15:23Jessica Tarlov:Ding, ding, ding. So the past couple of weeks, you know, I've been very down about this, which I think anyone who's consuming the news as it relates to the Epstein files would be, and you're, you know, horrified and sad, and it's so harrowing what happened to these victims and the frustration about so few people caring and there being consequences. and I felt for a couple weeks there that something was going to change. I'm not saying everybody was going to be prosecuted, but it did feel like there was some momentum and seeing now that the DOJ is saying we're done and, you know, doing crazy things like releasing all the names involved and then they put out, like, Janis Joplin on a list who was, Epstein was 17 when she passed away and, you know, crowding names together, like Joplin and Larry Nassar, for instance, you realize nothing's going to happen.

16:22Jessica Tarlov:And I'm getting really sick of seeing headlines from around the world, like last night, you know, breaking French police raid multiple locations in Jeffrey Epstein criminal probe, including the Arab World Institute, right? You're having resignations of people out of foreign governments because they were just in contact with this guy. Keir Starmer may not be the UK prime minister anymore over bad judgment as it relates to putting you know someone in uh in government who was linked to him and I just think like we're not going to do anything like Brad Karp doesn't have his job anymore I saw Casey Wasserman the you know the mega agent stepping down but it put Pam Bondi's performance last week in a new light to me like I I actually I thought it was so bad and it was so embarrassing, not just the stuff everyone's been making fun of.

17:14Jessica Tarlov:Like you got asked a question about a pedophile and you scream Dow 50 ,000. Like that's funny in an SNL sense. But I really thought that the image of this attorney general not even turning around to make eye contact with the survivors, women who have endured something that no one should have to, would show Trump that she's not up to this job. or that she was just going to be enough of a PR nightmare that she should be gone. But honestly, like looking at it now a few days later, I think it's what Trump wanted. I think that he has made it clear and that Marjorie Taylor Greene has been talking about this in interviews, that he is the one who has been blocking this.

17:52Jessica Tarlov:And he told her to go out there and be as ridiculous as she needs to be as long as she is stonewalling. And so I have basically no faith in the idea that there will be any substantive consequences from this or that we're going to find out that much more. So that's I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but that's where I am.

18:15Scott Galloway:I'm more hopeful in the sense that I do think there are going to be consequences here, but I think they're going to happen in 2029. And also, I think Democrats and Merrick Garland have to take some responsibility for why these files weren't released earlier, why there haven't been any indictments. why there hasn't been more aggressive push to get to the bottom of what's gone on here during Democratic administrations. What's come to light here is that the Republican Party, I mean, that was a real moment that you just referenced when Representative Jayapal asked the survivors, their survivors, to stand up, and all of them had reached out to the DOJ, and none of them, the DOJ has no interest in interviewing these victims.

18:55Scott Galloway:I mean, you'd think that, one, they would provide insight into crimes and possibly even exonerate some people. But it's clear it's no longer the Department of Justice. It's the Department of Delay and Obfuscation. And if you were to, quite frankly, I think someone did type this into AI and said, these in some form are going to come out in some format. What's the best way to do it? They said, confuse the shit out of everyone, release a ton of shit that makes no sense, then drip it out and create a ton of confusion. And this is what's happened. There is, like you said, just total confusion. This is a total GRU propaganda technique, and that is overwhelm and flood the zone with information, some true information, some false information, and make it such that everyone's just fed up and shrugs their shoulders.

19:39Scott Galloway:And where I part from the majority of my progressive brothers and sisters is that I don't believe they should have released the files. I think the way the Department of Justice and the other agencies who have compiled this data should be communicating with the public is through indictments and say, we are indicting the following people for what we believe is criminal activity, specifically child rape or trafficking girls or providing infrastructure for the abuse of children. But instead, they let out everything and we're all like, oh, you know, what does a spiritual guru think? And by the way, if a cabinet member perjures himself under oath and is all indignant about having nothing to do with him.

20:23Scott Galloway:And then it comes out that he had a lot to do with him. That's criminal activity. But this has worked out perfectly or near perfectly, in my view. Perk is the wrong word. It's been less bad than it should be for the Trump administration because they have weaponized our institutions, our institutions. The Department of Justice is the most poorly named government agency in the world right now. This has nothing to do with justice. It's the Department of Propaganda. It's the Department of Delay and Obfuscation. And I do actually think they're doing a really good job because while we're focused on what creeps spiritual guru or wellness longevity doctors are, the government officials or grown men who have engaged in child rape, nothing's going to happen.

21:05Scott Galloway:I am fairly confident that there's enough anger out there that a new attorney general in 28 slash 29 is going to come for some of these people. I think that there's enough thirst out there for blood and some sort of justice that you're going to see something happen. It's just not going to happen for another three years. I don't know what the statute of limitations is on some of these things.

21:30Jessica Tarlov:Yeah. I mean, that's a problem with a lot of it anyway. And I think where some folks that have been implicated have been taking some degree of solace in the situation. but you know it's a criminal question but it's also a moral question right about the type of people who should be in leadership positions and i don't want to paint too broad of a brush there are obviously people that are just you know casually like went to a dinner party there um you know maybe their eas didn't mention you're going to dinner at a convicted sex offenders house who was soliciting prostitution from a minor, but, you know, plenty of people who also were in communication after he was prosecuted again, right, for the stuff that ended him in a jail cell, you know, murdered.

22:19Jessica Tarlov:I mean, it was a really interesting, Julie K. Brown, the pioneering journalist on this from the Miami Herald, said she doesn't think that he killed himself. And now that we know about, like, the erased tapes from the cell and, you know, that there are entries into the files about dummy bodies coming out different sides of the prisons to distract from the whole situation. There is obviously a lot more to this story. And I think that it would be nice if we could get those details and that people could be reading from the same playbook, because there's also a ton of bad information in these files, to your point, about everything getting released, or not really everything, since it's only going to be 2 % of it.

22:57Jessica Tarlov:But, you know, I get very tinfoil hat-y about these things. And I'm going down a lot of rabbit holes around, you know, the dentist chair that was in his house and the girlfriend that he had, the Belarusian woman who got into Columbia Dental School and, you know, had no business being there. Two administrators, I believe, have been fired in connection with that. But there's a whole section of the Internet that is talking about how the dental chair was to remove girls' teeth so that they wouldn't bite back. You know, like, you could go down a number of really scary paths. I guess I do want to be hopeful, though, for a second and talk about what's going on in New Mexico.

23:38Jessica Tarlov:So you saw how there was an exchange in the files about how there might be bodies buried at Epstein's Zorro Ranch, which is in New Mexico. That ranch is now owned by this big MAGA guy who's running for Texas comptroller. His son works in the White House. By the way, as an aside, he's endorsed by Turning Point at this point. He was refusing to let people come and look for the bodies on the ranch. But New Mexico lawmakers last night voted unanimously to approve a truth commission with subpoena power to probe trafficking and sexual assault at the ranch. And that starts effective today. So that testimony actually could lead to prosecution.

24:16Jessica Tarlov:So I hope that state lawmakers across the country are taking note of what is possible, even without the DOJ wanting to help out, that maybe you'll get some answers when it comes to that. But, you know, it's all kind of comical, right, when you think like the guy who owns it now is, you know, his son works in the White House and he's not letting people on there. Like, why wouldn't you let people on there to see if there are dead girls buried on your property? Also, why would you want to live on a property that might have dead girls buried on it?

24:50Scott Galloway:Yeah, the problem with all these rabbit holes is I worry that they're weapons of mass distraction and that we're all falling into it. So I thought Ro Khanna, Representative Khanna, summarized it perfectly. He said, open quote, to have Janis Joplin, who died when Epstein was 17, in the same list as Larry Nassar, who went to prison for sexual abuse of hundreds of young women and child pornography with no clarification of how either was mentioned in the files is absurd. Representative Kahn wrote on X. And the key to the Epstein files, the American public wants it all. I actually think the key to the power of investigatory agencies and justice is what's not released.

25:27Scott Galloway:The Department of Justice is there to create incentives, specifically, or in this case, an incentive that tells people if you engage in child rape, you're going to pay a huge price. I don't think they're there to ruin. You mentioned Casey Wasserman. As far as I can tell, Casey Wasserman sent flirtatious emails to Jelaine Maxwell before he was even convicted the first time in 2008. Everyone becomes the fucking Pope and Jesus when they get behind a keyboard. And they want to engage in this ring light virtue that the algorithms love of tearing down people. I even saw this one person putting out TikToks about how we should not endorse the brands of the, I won't even mention their names, but these two famous models, because they had email interaction with Jeffrey Epstein.

26:13Scott Galloway:Look, the guy had a yacht and threw great parties. I hate to break it to you folks, but a lot of wealthy men and models really enjoy those things and will email with people. That doesn't mean we should be ruining their careers. And all we are doing by creating this like citizen ring light, I wouldn't even call it journalism, but gossip slash slander is diluting from the focus of the department or what should be the focus of the Department of Justice, and that is to indict, convict, and imprison criminals. And instead, we're talking about this guy should resign or this guy should or shouldn't be on CBS.

26:53Scott Galloway:I think it's an incredible miscarriage of justice, and we are falling into the exact trap that the Trump administration has laid for us, and that is, okay, the Department of Justice isn't in the business of finding out what emails out you as a total fucking creep. Okay, that's bad. It's really distasteful. It's not the business that the Department of Justice should be in. The Department of Justice should be in the business of putting a man who is alleged to have impregnated an 11-year-old on this island, putting him in prison for the rest of his life, such that the next time an Epstein class of person believes that they can rape children, thinks twice and says, you know, maybe I shouldn't do this because someone's gonna come for me and put me in prison.

27:38Scott Galloway:And that women who are abused like this or girls who are abused think the Department of Justice has my back. They may be slow, but the arc of the Department of Justice bends towards truth and justice. This department has lost so much credibility, but they are doing this. And to a certain extent, the Trump administration is getting a lot of flack. I think they've put on a master class here, courtesy of the GRU, on how to distract from pedophilia and crimes potentially committed by some of the most powerful people in the world. And instead, we're focused on all of the fun and all of the gossip and, oh, this guy's a creep.

28:18Scott Galloway:Okay. Or this individual had contact with this person. Let's talk about it and let's pass judgment on it because from a keyboard, I'm really fucking virtuous and can judge other people. This has been, in my view, the Trump administration, if they are trying to create diversion, confusion, dilution, we've fallen into that trap. They have played us.

28:43Jessica Tarlov:Now I feel sad because I've been played. But I just wanted to add, well, two things. On the Peter Atiyah front, because you referenced that, I do think that there is a difference between people who have been caught up in this and had a few exchanges with him or flirted a little with Galene Maxwell before anyone was convicted and someone who exchanged 1 ,850 emails with the person and seems to have from those emails some understanding of who Jeffrey Epstein actually was. and, you know, being a medical contributor, somebody that people go to for health advice should, I think, carry even like an extra level of weight or importance to it.

29:30Jessica Tarlov:And I'm not accusing him of doing anything with little girls or anything like that, but I think it is going to be very hard and this would turn into a business decision, which Barry Weiss has decided as of now that she is keeping him, that when you turn on the TV and he's talking to you about longevity, that you hear echoes in your mind of someone saying, you know, but we can't tell anyone about who you actually are. And that he was with Epstein when his baby was in the ICU, which he wrote about in his book. And like, I'm not with you on some of these people who have been caught up in it. I think that you need to, as a full-grown adult, express some better judgment when you are clearly aware of at least a few details about this guy that indicate that he is no good and have zero moral fiber at the very least.

30:24Jessica Tarlov:The second component about people needing to be convicted of things and to pay some sort of price, it is interesting in the latest tranche of documents that came out that there is evidence that the FBI interviewed a victim who credibly accused Donald Trump of sexual assault, and this happened in 2019. And there will be a question that COJ, you know, isn't going to do anything about it. And again, I am not saying I have no evidence that Donald Trump did this. I am saying that there is an interview in the latest tranche of Epstein files on this and that Bondi may have perjured herself when she was testifying because she said that Trump was not implicated in anything.

31:04Jessica Tarlov:And that might be a legal question that the Democrats make something of. That was the only thing that kind of stood out on the legal front from her testimony.

31:14Scott Galloway:I think if somebody has perjured themselves, the Department of Justice has an obligation to indict them or say, we believe this person perjured themselves, whether it was -

31:23Jessica Tarlov:You think Todd Blanche is going to be like, Pam, you've gone too far now.

31:27Scott Galloway:And that might be, that'll probably be a different Department of Justice. When it comes to someone like Peter Atiyah, The Department, and this is the gray zone, the Department of Justice might feel that if a medical doctor has been licensed and accredited by certain medical boards, do they have an obligation to inform them of what might have been criminal activity? Or let's go back. So, look, President Trump was found guilty of 34 felony counts, and he was found civilly liable for sexual abuse. I believe that warrants additional investigation by the Department of Justice for what appears to be evidence that he may have engaged in more criminal activity.

32:12Scott Galloway:With respect to somebody just being an abysmal human being who is also providing medical advice and has just handled themselves incredibly poorly and has probably no business giving other people medical advice and having a big platform, I agree with that. I think that's hard to argue against. The question is, is that the business that the DOJ is in? Is that what they do?

32:37Jessica Tarlov:I see.

32:38Scott Galloway:Because how far down do we go? And my view is the following litmus test. Is this person guilty or is there evidence that warrants government resources to file a criminal indictment against this person? That's it. And as much fun as it is to call these people out deservedly for what incredible fucking hypocrites they are. I mean, Secretary Lutnik, my view is he's such an idiot that he committed a crime trying to cover up what wasn't a crime. If he had just said, really poor judgment, this guy was my neighbor. He seemed like a baller. I thought he was well-connected. Me and my kids went to his island.

33:17Scott Galloway:Just really poor judgment. It'd be over. Instead, he testified under oath that he was—he immediately smelled a rat and wanted nothing to do— Okay, that's called perjury, sir. But where is the line here? What is the Department of Justice in the business of and what are they not in the business of?

33:38Jessica Tarlov:Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think it's a real question also about our quality of journalists and how few people trust anyone in any sort of position of power, whether it's government or the quote unquote mainstream media. And that was part of the drive for getting all these files out here. But the problem is you have, you know, citizen journalists or just anyone with access to an X account or whatever social media channel you happen to be on. And then that becomes Bible to you. And it splinters us even more. But there's no question that these survivors deserve a lot more than they are getting or probably than they are ever to get in terms of even recognition for what they went through.

34:26Jessica Tarlov:And we should make sure that the focus always stays on that because it's just terrible. And to see the pain in their eyes and to listen to these interviews, it's sickening and it's just really sad. I think a decent opening statement or confirmation for the nominee for the next attorney general, hopefully under a Democratic administration, would be,

34:49Scott Galloway:I am laser-like focused on bringing justice to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein. and criminally indicting the people who engage in criminal activity, who engaged in child rape, provided infrastructure for it, trafficked it. And that is it. That is where I'm going to focus all my resources. And that is it. And if you're looking for titillating information on what a fucking creep someone is, that's not why I'm here.

35:19Jessica Tarlov:Yeah. A professionalization of the office would be good.

35:23Scott Galloway:People don't realize, and this goes to just how much damage social media has done. There are two ways you don't get shamed by the community and cast out into the darkness and get eaten alive by bears and wolves, and that is one, through either strength or wisdom. And one unfortunate means of somehow granting wisdom in a very fake, superficial, but what seems to be increasingly important vehicle is that social media algorithms give you likes and attention and money if you feed into the algorithm. And finding somebody famous who is in these files, for whatever reason, the algorithms love it. It's embarrassing for them.

36:02Scott Galloway:It creates conversation. It creates likes. It creates another 50, 80, 100 bucks from AdSense on YouTube. And it elevates information that, in my view, oftentimes does nothing but polarize us, divide us. And here's how we end up with a Vance-Teal presidency, which is if Vance is president, be clear, Teal's not going to be his vice president. He'll actually be the president. Vance will be the VP again. This is how it happens. On the left, we just fucking attack each other. Casey Wasserman? That's who's got to resign? That's the guy flirtatious emails with Jelaine Maxwell before Epstein is ever convicted of anything?

36:44Scott Galloway:That's the guy whose career we're ruining. That's the one who pays the price.

36:48Jessica Tarlov:You saw that great image. I think it was New Yorker did it with all the red arrows that point in one direction. And then blue arrows are all pointing in different directions and at each other as a metaphor for how Republicans do politics and how Democrats do politics. And we are the ultimate circular firing squad every time.

37:10Scott Galloway:I'm totally triggered here because whenever I talk about the Epstein, I think I was summarizing something you had said. And I said something along the lines of this person should be criminally indicted and pursued for sex with underage women. All of the comments, all of the comments were about the words I chose. Scott, they're not underage women. They're girls. 100 % right. 100 % right. I will change my language. They're absolutely right. essentially this is what Democrats are really good at. We have fascists and people who seem to be covering for pedophiles coming across the plains towards us, and we're in a trench shitposting each other and saying, you're holding the gun wrong.

37:55Scott Galloway:You're my ally, but you're holding the— you chose the wrong words, so I'm coming for you. It's our inability to embrace imperfect allies is how we lose this war.

38:08Jessica Tarlov:100%. All right.

38:10Scott Galloway:Let's take a quick break. Stay with us.

38:16Scott Galloway:Welcome back. Before we go, Congress is deadlocked over funding the Department of Homeland Security and the fight over ICE reform is unfolding as immigration enforcement continues expanding. Senate Democrats want body cameras and ID rules for agents. Republicans say ICE funding is already secured through 2028 and warn the shutdown is instead hitting FEMA and TSA. Jess, who do you think blinks first and how long can this drag on?

38:40Jessica Tarlov:I think it could go on for a while. I mean, especially because it's concentrated in DHS. It does not seem like Democrats, really any of them except like Fetterman, really has much appetite for compromising, especially on some of these key planks. It'll be interesting if Republicans, you know, get it together and come back and say these are the two or three proposals that we can live with. I mean, even some very conservative senators have said, you know, definitely open to body cams. Masks seem to be where they're drawing the line. Like Tom Holman even said, we don't want to have to be wearing masks, but people's families are getting doxed.

39:19Jessica Tarlov:I think that there's probably a correlation between what these agents are doing and the fact that people are coming after them. I'm not in any way justifying it. I think that, you know, doxing is unacceptable. People's families need to be kept safe and protected. But there's probably more, as with everything, that we agree upon than we don't. But I think this one could go for a while. A lot of agencies affected TSA, FEMA, Coast Guard, Secret Service, ICE, obviously, U.S. Customs and Border Patrol. But it is funded through the end of the Trump administration because of the reconciliation bill. They got an extra$75 billion.

39:59Jessica Tarlov:So it's a bit of a false choice talking point, I guess, to say, you know, defund ICE or we're going to defund ICE. You can't. That money has gone out the door. But I wanted to frame this in a way that you actually did around the Epstein files. And even what we were talking about with the FCC overreach again. The Trump administration is taking major hits because of these very unpopular policy positions. So they're 100 % on the back foot when it comes to ICE and immigration enforcement. Trump just hit new lows in four major polls, Quinnipiac, Yahoo, NBC, and the AP. He's doing way worse than Joe Biden was.

40:39Jessica Tarlov:If the election were held today and the Rasmussen pollsters, a right-leaning pollster even said this, Joe Biden would win. He's now at minus 27 with independents. You cannot win an election at minus 27 with independents. Bleeding non-college support. He was even down two points. This actually made me laugh. with white voters. And Democrats haven't won white voters since 1964. So I'm not saying that that poll is a Qantas poll is a good pollster that we would win white voters, but that's crazy. And now 58 percent of voters under 30 disapprove of the job Trump's doing. So every swing category, Latinos, especially Latino men, young voters has swung back.

41:20Jessica Tarlov:And I think you can draw a direct line between what is going on in America's streets, especially in Minneapolis, and this change. And we're always looking for a silver lining or something to be hopeful about. And we were talking about this last week with your buddy Jeff Sonnenfeld and his new book, and How Can You Push Back?, and the idea of collective action. The people of Minneapolis have given us a roadmap. They have shown that you can push back effectively. It's a tragedy what happened with Renee Good and Alex Preddy. Of course, I want to talk about that a bit more in terms of what's going on with the ICE.

41:55Jessica Tarlov:But they will back down if you show up and you peacefully protest and you tell them that this isn't our right, this isn't American, this is not how we do things here. Tom Homan announcing that the surge is over, a small security force is going to remain. That's a win for our side. And I think that we should recognize that and know that it is going to take every one of us who feels distraught, disturbed, incensed, angry, livid over what's going on, that you may have to show up for a protest or two, that you may have to push back in any way that you can, that you may have to resist and unsubscribe, but that you can make change and you're not powerless.

42:38Scott Galloway:Yeah, I agree with you. I think that they picked the wrong state, right? And I do think it's mobilized people and to be bereft and believe that we're the first generation to face this type of behavior or a dark time, it just doesn't understand or really have any historical context. We have absolutely faced worse predicaments than this, whether it's civil wars, world wars, plagues, interning Japanese people, civil rights violations, not mentioning the word AIDS because you think gay people are such an abomination. We have faced very big crises, and every time Americans have equaled the moment. And the fear this time is that we have become so fat and happy and so prosperous that we take our institutions and our rights for granted.

43:26Scott Galloway:And I don't think that's happening here. And I think the people of Minnesota have kind of, as you've said, have kind of provided a great example and sort of led the way here. The trust in government, it's just so upsetting. Just 17 % of Americans now say they trust the government in Washington to do what is right. Just about always is 2 % and most of the time is 15%. Now get this, that's 17 % versus in 1958, 73 % of Americans trusted the federal government to do the right thing, always, most of the time. By 1980, post-Vietnam and Watergate, only a quarter of Americans expressed a high level of trust, but it's still double what it is now.

44:04Scott Galloway:Two-thirds of Americans report having not very much or no trust in Congress. So there's just a lack, again, of faith in our institutions. You said something earlier in the show I want to double-click on, and that is, quite frankly, unless we, i.e. Democrats, fuck this up, and we are famous at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, see above, start shitposting each other instead of actually focusing on the real adversary here. But you had said something. It looks as if we're going to take back Congress, you had said that now there's some credible pollsters, specifically the predictions markets, saying there's a non-zero probability that we actually take the Senate.

44:43Scott Galloway:Do you have any thoughts on that? And can you be more specific about which Senate seats might be in play that weren't before?

44:50Jessica Tarlov:Yeah. I mean, so the ones that I feel really good about, North Carolina with Roy Cooper running there. I don't know. I'm so conflicted about what's going on in the main primary, but it does feel like Susan Collins is more vulnerable than she is usually. And I was someone who thought that there was a chance that she was going to lose six years ago and she won by double digits. But it does feel like the mood is, we need a change. Janet Mills, who's the current governor running for Senate in the Democratic primary, had a brutal, awesome ad about, you know, how concerned Susan Collins has been for decades and how she really does nothing about it.

45:34Jessica Tarlov:And she also, like many politicians, had said, you know, not going to serve for some absurd amount of time. I think it was just two terms, but she's been in there now, I think, like 30 years. So that's pretty hard hitting. But it seems like Graham Plattner, you know, the lefty candidate in there, has a lot of enthusiasm on the ground. And that's the, you know, this fight between the younger generation and the old guard is definitely coming into play. Ohio is really interesting. I love Sherrod Brown. He is, you know, the working class warrior and, you know, probably the only candidate who I think could win that Ohio seat back.

46:09Jessica Tarlov:Linking this to what we were just talking about with Epstein, the guy who he's running against, John Husted, I think that's how you pronounce it, apparently took$100 ,000 from Epstein. And now Sherrod Brown is featuring that in his ads. And that'll be interesting to see. I think it's the only one in the country, at least on the congressional or Senate level, where we're talking about a potential Epstein angle to it, and we'll see how unpopular that actually makes you. So I think Ohio is, you know, it's a red state now, but Sherrod Brown is the guy who could do it. You know, Texas, I still think, is a total pipe dream to be able to do that.

46:44Jessica Tarlov:And people are really interested in what's going on in Iowa. Rob Sand, who's running for governor, feeling good. Nathan Sage just dropped out of the Democratic primary on the Senate side and endorsed Josh Turek, who is a very cool and interesting candidate. It has an amazing story. So, you know, those are just some places, I guess, that I'm paying attention. But it is the first time that I've felt like there could be a blue wave. You know, Brian and I have been having those conversations, like every young set of parents, where would it be better to live, right? Like, where would it be better to raise kids?

47:18Jessica Tarlov:I know that you're a big proponent of the Florida model. I couldn't live in Florida under Governor DeSantis. I just couldn't get there. But it was the first time that I even allowed myself to say, well, like, what if David Jolly did win? Right. Like, what if it is such a big blue wave that you have a Democrat in the governor's mansion in Florida? Does that change calculus about being in a state like that? And I think that it does. I'm not predicting that we have that big of a wave. But those conversations don't feel insane to people when you're flipping, you know, Trump plus 25 seats, right, in states like Texas and Louisiana.

47:58Jessica Tarlov:You know, the map is getting bluer and it's lighting up brighter. And Democrats at this moment have the enthusiasm on our side of showing up for these special elections. We're going to show up on Election Day. The question will be, you know, what Trump on the trail will do. I happen to think it's just going to make us show up more because he's like that big flashing sign that we just can't stand. And midterm voters on the right don't tend to be as passionate as certainly the party that's trying to get back into power. But that's, I guess, my overview.

48:31Scott Galloway:So you mentioned Florida, and obviously that's—I'm a resident of Florida. What do you think of a matchup between Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, who's announced he's running in the Democratic primary for the special election seat for Rubio's seat versus the AG appointed to Rubio's Senate seat by Governor DeSantis? Do you think Vindman has a shot?

48:50Jessica Tarlov:I have not looked at polling on that. I think the Vindmans, both of them, are very compelling characters. characters. I don't know. It's a tough one because in a lot of ways, I think that he's representative of, you know, a conversation about democracy and the rule of law and like a lot of those lines of argumentation that we didn't win on previously. Do you know what I'm saying? So that part is tough for me, but ethically, morally speaking, like the kind of person that I would like to see going to Washington. Yeah, 100%. I think that's great. You know, it's interesting to see DeSantis, who was really on the outs with Trump, obviously challenging him in the last primary.

49:37Jessica Tarlov:Meatball Ron, I think is what he called him. Apparently, he was playing golf with Trump just a few days ago. And you can see a move to bring the coalition back together. Trump is not picking as many fights internally as he was, except if you speak out about the Epstein files, like he's endorsing everybody in these primaries instead of picking sides. And I think Ashley Moody will definitely appeal to a lot of normies. She's an establishment favorite kind of person. And there are still a lot of Republicans out there that are begging for a world in which there's a return to normalcy.

50:12Scott Galloway:I think just as people underestimate Governor Newsom, I think they underestimate Governor DeSantis. I think you learn a lot running a campaign. You have an infrastructure that could be fired up pretty easily. I think he comes across as more of a leader than either Rubio or Vance. I would not count him out. And with respect to Inman, I think he's an American hero. I follow Florida politics semi-closely. Unfortunately, I think it's going to be an impeachment nostalgia campaign, and I don't think that's what Floridians care about. I think unfortunately that race is going to be one or a loss on boring shit like insurance, which a third of Florida homeowners can't get right now.

50:50Scott Galloway:And HOA fees that have skyrocketed and seniors are having to give up their condos because of regulation. I mean, it's basically you have millions and millions of people in Florida who move down there thinking they'd spend the rest of their lives down there, who are having to sell their homes and leave because of the insurance market has totally turned against them. I mean, it's just, it sounds, I'm bored talking about it, but I think that is what's going to.

51:16Jessica Tarlov:That's what wins elections, right? Your day-to-day life.

51:18Scott Galloway:Yeah. I think there'll be a lot of great ads about Lieutenant Colonel Vindman and his uniform and talking about how brave he is. And that's not what, that's not what's going to turn people out. People are going to think, okay. Well, it's a great side dish, but the entree has to be. Improving people's lives.

51:35Jessica Tarlov:All the plans to lower your cost of living, to make sure you have the insurance that you need. 100%. Last year, I interviewed David Jolly for The Pod, who's running on the Democratic side for governor. And he kept emphasizing that because, you know, he's a Republican turned Democrat. And that's the story that people like us always want to talk about. Like, you know, when did it hit you that the Republicans are so evil, right, that you had to come over to the other side? And he was like, I've got a plan to lower people's taxes, right, to make sure that you can afford a home. Like, that's what people are showing up for.

52:07Jessica Tarlov:It is a luxury to be a quote unquote democracy voter, unless you can connect the dots, which I think that we can, between the assault on democracy and your cost of living, because that is available through the tariffs and all of these abuses with what's going on with immigration enforcement, because immigrants make us more prosperous and they make the country better. They are a net contributor, right? They are the ones who are actually paying more into the system. But you're totally right. And I mean, we'll be paying attention to the campaign as it rolls out. But Vindman is a hero who needs an insurance plan.

52:41Scott Galloway:There you go.

52:42Jessica Tarlov:Like for actual insurance, not like because something's going to happen to him.

52:45Scott Galloway:All right. Before we go, if you're watching us on YouTube, please make sure you hit subscribe. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to Raging Moderates. Have a good week, Jess.

52:53Jessica Tarlov:Oh, you too. See you later. Thank you.