Raging Moderates: Trump Pulls Back in Minneapolis as Democrats Turn Up Pressure on ICE

0:28Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Scott Galloway. Who was your favorite? When you cheated on me, who was the best? I mean, Heather Cox Richardson was great and intellectual bad, to say the least. No, Sarah Lombo was awesome, too. And, you know, something that was really great about it. I loved how many female voices we got on. Jennifer Griffin, who's an amazing national security reporter, had a great conversation with her. We need to feature more women on the pod. The ladies are coming. How was your time off and Davos, you know, all the things? It was great. I went to Australia. I got to climb the bridge with the boys.

1:04I saw that on my own family and said, I want to do that. And I went to Singapore. My kids had never been there. I was in L.A. doing some work. Davos, which was interesting and depressing at the same time. And, yeah, it's nice to be back. I feel sort of antsy. And, yeah, it's nice to be back. And fortunately, not a lot happened while I was gone. Yeah, no big deal. Slow moving politics in this country. It's weird when you take some time off when you're not looking at the news every day, which I did not do. I remember when I came home once after being on the road for three weeks, and I popped my head into my kid's room.

1:40And this was when I was working really hard. My oldest was six, and he was sleeping above his covers. And I could physically discern that he had grown in the three weeks that I'd been gone. And it just really bummed me out. But my point is, when you're in the news every day, you're a frog in water that's getting hotter and hotter and then it's boiling. And then when you come back after an extended break from the news and you see this shit, I was just, when I first got to Davos and I was listening to the talks and just the mood and the vibe and annexing Greenland, I thought it was just so kind of rattling and jarring to see how much things had changed in the last month with the murders in Minnesota.

2:20and this annexation discussion and what was going on in Iran. And the two best lines while I was gone were, one was by your co-host, Heather Cox Richardson. A lot of people have been talking about the need for better training of these ICE officials. And she had the best line. I don't know if it was on the pod with you. She said, that's like saying that the guards at Dachau just needed better training. I thought that was a great line. And then the other line came from Catherine Dillon, who essentially runs Prop G Media. when I was in Davos and just coming back and I said, I had spent a lot of time on panels talking about the need for some sort of military intervention to kind of push the Islamic Republic over the edge.

3:03And I kept saying, you know, they're executing citizens in the street. And Catherine goes, you realize that's happening in America, right? It was just sort of kind of stopped me in my tracks. Okay, government executing people in the street, executing citizens in the street and I hadn't taken the time to stop and go, wait, not on the same scale, but that's happening in the U.S. Anyways, I am happy to be back. In today's episode, we're discussing how Democrats should respond to the aftermath of the murder of Alex Prattie, the GOP's hypocrisy when it comes to the Second Amendment and the new Melania documentary and what it says about her priorities as First Lady.

3:38I'm hoping we do not get to the third subject. That's called a, I could give Zero fucks given Does this change it for you? Melania will be on the five with me Tomorrow The day that this comes out I don't want to preempt it But I think she's the worst first lady in history Cool, cool I'll let her know Yeah, and I'm I don't think I've ever heard her speak I don't I know You have Not really That's all I'm going to say Really? Okay Anyway Yeah, I mean I think that'll be I think they will afford her.

4:15I don't know. That's going to be weird. You got to be, you know, I find that we're appropriately respectful of the first lady. I think she's not absolutely nothing. And she clearly has, you know, has she spent a night in the White House? Anyways, how many nights have you spent in the White House? Will you ask that for me? It's been 400 days since he was elected or whatever. or inaugurated. Or how is Be Best working out? 365, 270. That was a what? Be Best. Remember her social media bullying campaign? That was her cause. Like reading or getting fit. But it was social media bullying. Yeah. Ask her what she thinks about chain migration that you move here, marry a rich guy, get citizenship, and then get all your family members over.

5:03Can you ask that? What she thinks of chain migration? You know, I can ask anything I want, and I will consider all of these options. Is this unfair? Mm-hmm. All right. Let's talk about Minneapolis. All right. Let's get into it. The killing of Alex Freddie has pushed Democrats into a fork-in-the-road moment after two U.S. citizens were shot dead by federal immigration agents in Minneapolis. Democrats are threatening to block DHS funding unless ICE is reined in, even to risk a partial government shutdown. Meanwhile, pressure is now coming from multiple directions. A federal judge in Minnesota has ordered ICE's acting director to appear in court over what he called extraordinary violations of court orders, while senior Border Patrol commander Gregory Bovino and some agents are leaving Minneapolis amid mounting backlash.

5:47Signs the federal crackdown may be hitting its limits. Jess, is threatening a shutdown the only leverage, real leverage, that Democrats have to force accountability on ICE? And if not, what else could be done here? I think it's your main source of accountability in Washington. I think we have seen that the biggest source of accountability that you can push for is what the brave people of Minneapolis-St. Paul have been doing in taking it to the streets and doing it in, you know, minus 20 degree weather. and in totally fearless fashion. I am continually overwhelmed by how brave and good these people are and the way that they talk about Minnesota values and American values and living by the credos that all of these uber-Christians are supposed to, like helping your neighbor and taking in the tired and the sick and the poor.

6:49They have mobilized so quickly considering this. I mean, the amount of organizations that are working on the ground, the amount of individual citizens that are doing things like running makeshift food pantries and making sure that people who are hiding in their homes or homes of American citizens can get the things that they need. I was talking to someone who's doing this, the orders for diapers and children's medicine through the roof. It's freezing cold there, right? Their kids are getting sick just like my kids are getting sick here, and they can't come out of their houses. And their neighbors are all stepping up for them.

7:27And I think that their example is one for the ages. And so that is a way to get accountability. There's Greg Bovino out, Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski getting, you know, a big talking to by the president. I agree with you from what you said yesterday on a rapid response video that Kristi Noem will not be long for that job. But when the legislators are sitting there in Washington looking at what their options are besides supporting the people of Minneapolis and wherever ICE may go next, this shutdown is the biggest way that they can push for accountability. and I think that it is very smart strategy.

8:06So what they want to do to be a little bit boring is they want to take the minibus spending bill that already exists and chop it up into five or six pieces so that the DHS section can be carved out. I want to note that for people that are saying like, you know, we're going to defund ICE or abolish ICE, ICE is already funded at 87 % higher level than it was the year before. Even if this$10 billion doesn't go through, That's the amount of money that's in question here. But I think that it is definitely worth continuing to push Senator Thune on it. And the Democrats are asking for five big things in their kind of reform package that DHS must cooperate with state probes.

8:46You would think that that would be normal and natural, that you would have cooperation when you're investigating things like American citizens that have died. But that has not been the case. that CBP actually stays at the border, not allowed to roam wherever they want. They have to be within that hundred miles that you need a warrant for arresting people or breaking down doors for the amendment. Shout out. Agents have to have IDs and wear body cams. And we're waiting for that body cam footage from what happened with Alex Prattie. Apparently a couple of those agents were wearing body cams and ICE has to get out of churches and schools.

9:19So those are kind of the the five big asks that are percolating in the conversation. What do you think about the shutdown strategy? I like it. I'm just worried that if we cave again after a certain amount of time that we're going to look even weaker. So I'm all about a shutdown as long as it's, as long as we all hold hands around the campfire and agree that we're not going to open until, you know, we get something. And my sense is we got nothing the last time. So I'm all for a shutdown. I just don't know if the people who will affect the shutdown have the backbone to, I mean, basically we blinked in the last shutdown.

10:00So I'm all for it. But guys, unless you're going to actually wait until something happens, something tangible, unless there's rule given on the other side and you can legitimately claim victory, then we don't need to put the nation through this again. So, you know, it's like I've said that our military incursions overseas are like Bond films. And that is, Bond films always nail the opening. They're always amazing. And then they go on to be a bad, a mediocre, or a great film. The democratic actions, when they have some power, always start really strong. And then we cave. So, you know, I'm all for it.

10:37But if they propose a shutdown, they get a shutdown, and we go through this nonsense again, And you have parks closed and veterans not getting health care and Marines not getting paid. And then after 25 days, we have some incredibly flaccid, impotent 90-year-old Democrats stand up and say, it's not working. We're caving. Oh, my God. We're going to go to the single digits in terms of popularity. So, yeah, I'm all for a shutdown as long as it's real and people understand there's going to be real sacrifices to be made. And, you know, it's going to be difficult. So any reaction to that? Yeah. I mean, the good thing about this versus the previous shutdown is it would be a partial shutdown.

11:19So it won't be this scale and scope of what happened before. And especially if the bills are... Can you say more about that? Like, what is that? I understand that it's... I like the term you use, many of us. What does that mean versus... What would the tangible differences in terms of how it impacts ordinary Americans and our federal services? how would this be, how would this shutdown be different than the last of what I think was a complete government shutdown or threatened at least? Yeah. So essential services, which allegedly kept going during, you know, the big shutdown would continue obviously during this.

11:51But if you are able to target the DHS pot of it, there is concern that you don't want like FEMA not to be working. For instance, we're going to have another huge snowstorm next week. So that's on the list of concerns. We all want TSA to continue to work. There are people who also want CBP to continue to work just in its capacity that it should. So that's kind of what's up for discussion at this particular moment in terms of the tangible implications of it. And I think that we'll know a lot more if any of that will come to fruition in the next 24 hours, maybe even when this comes out because Senator Thune is going to have to make a decision about whether he is going to split it up.

12:35If you don't have the bill split, it is going to have much broader implications for Americans. And there are a lot of Republicans who are dug in saying, absolutely not. We don't want to split this. That is Thune's inclination that he doesn't want to. But it is interesting to see that, you know, in your terms, the cavers, the Senate Democrats who ended up saying in the end, no, actually, let's just reopen the government. I have no appetite for this anymore. Like the Angus Kings of the world of the word, Jean Shaheen, they've all said absolutely not. Like we're going to the mats on this one. And it's interesting to see the caucus even more united than they were over something like health care, which affects every single American.

13:15Right. Like we all we all need health care, whether you're on Medicaid, Medicare, have private insurance or some combination. And I think that that energy is going to be put to good use in hopefully pushing us towards some of these reforms that I just read out. Rand Paul, who's the chair of the Homeland Security Committee, very, very powerful, is really hot on this. He wants all of the agents who are involved to be suspended. He's calling out the fact that Alex Preddy was referred to by government officials as a domestic terrorist, a would-be assassin right out of the gate. And there are other powerful conservative voices that are speaking a similar language to the Democrats.

13:58And so hopefully that'll put enough pressure on soon. The other component to it, which I don't know, it doesn't satisfy the same mechanism, I guess, but is this conversation over impeaching Kristi Noem. And Kyle Chaney at Politico has been doing incredible reporting on this, and he's tracked 2 ,300 cases since July in which federal judges have ruled that ICE has illegally detained people without bond or due process. 2 ,300 since July. In the read and in the intro, you mentioned how Todd Lyons, who's the acting ICE director, is going to have to go in front of a judge that is completely unprecedented.

14:34You have Tom Homan going into Minneapolis, and there's another guy named Rodney Scott, who is the head of CBP that Lewandowski and Noam had sidelined before who is now being reactivated and is going to be sent to Minneapolis, too. So they are moving fast and with a sense of urgency that indicates that they know that this funding showdown is something that would look really, really bad for the administration. And Trump is sensitive to those kinds of optics. The articles of impeachment, just for some color on obstruction of Congress is one article, which is about not letting Congress do their oversight, not letting them into ICE facilities, violation of the public trust.

15:18So your First Amendment, Fourth Amendment, Second Amendment now with Alex Preddy, and then also charges of self-dealing for Kristi Noem of inappropriately using tax dollars to do ICE recruitment and giving contracts out to friends, namely senior DHS official Tricia McLaughlin, who is a spokesperson. her husband got a massive contract and it didn't go through the normal tendering process. So I think that the impeachment of Kristi Noem is looking more and more like a good idea. And John Fetterman, who said that he doesn't want to shut down the government, came out this morning and said that Kristi Noem must go.

15:54So just along the lines of it's the boring stuff that moves the needle, it's important to revisit what you reference. And that is after Renee Good's death, a bunch of Democrats refused to advance legislation that provided funding for ICE. But seven Democrats crossed party lines to pass it in a 220 to 207 votes in the House. And if you look at those numbers, it means that those seven Democrats had, in fact, gone along with their colleagues and refused to advance legislation that provided funding for ICE. It wouldn't have gone through. And it's important that we hold those people accountable. And the seven representatives were Henry Klaher, Rep.

16:30Don Davis, Rep. Lauren Gillen, Representative Jaron Golden, Representative Vincente Gonzalez, Representative Marie Glusenkamp-Perez, and Representative Tom Suozzi. I think it's important to highlight that Representative Suozzi has come out and said it was a mistake. And Gillen has as well. Oh, thank you for that. But this ICE funding would have been severed had those seven Democrats voted to restrict ICE funding. I'm sorry, I don't want to be like Debbie Downer or Tracy Flick of this podcast, but just to add that if they do split up the spending bill into the individual packages, part of the concern is then it has to go back through the House and you're not going to get the support that you would have that you got the first time from like Swazi and Gillen for it.

17:16I mean, the Texas reps are probably going to hang on and continue to vote for it. So Senator Thune is thinking about that as well, that it would then get kicked back to Mike Johnson. and has to go through that process again. And then the question is, what are the demands from the Democratic side to get the funding? And Schumer put forward a framework of restrict reform and restrain. Jess, what the fuck does that mean? Shouldn't the condition be something along the lines of all ice out of major cities for the rest of 26? Shouldn't it be something that regular people can fucking understand? So abolishing ICE has its highest level of support that we've ever seen.

18:01It's gone up 20 points just from over the summer. 46 percent support, 41 percent oppose. Independents are plus 12 on it. Republican support is up 10 percent over the last six months. The most interesting finding that I saw in the polling around this is that two thirds of Democrats and the majority of independents say abolish ICE is not, quote, abolish immigration enforcement. They want to figure out a way to do this that is commensurate with American values and our judicial system. And, you know, the things that I read off in the beginning about making sure that people have warrants and body cams and cooperating with state and local officials when you're doing probes, that's all part of that.

18:42But I agree with you that there needs to be some, you know, that bumper sticker effect, right? Like some clear explanation of what a new reformed ICE would be like. It seems like ICE is a name that we are not going to be comfortable with again. So the Democrats should have a clear proposal for that that doesn't involve people, you know, ticking through. Well, we're going to get this. We're going to get this. We probably won't get that. But we're going to get this and we're going to get this. Because I think that you need to find a way to come out there and to say, we know that there are undocumented people in this country that are committing crimes and we need to get out.

19:21We need to get them out of here. And I think to some degree that involves also talking about Blue City mayors cooperating to get those hardened criminals out. That's what Tom Homan is going to try to do when he's in Minneapolis. It seems like Mayor Fry and Tim Walls are open to those conversations. I'm not talking about, you know, full access to jails in the way that they're asking for. But like in California, they they work with ICE all the time to do this. And Brian O 'Hara, who's the police chief in Minneapolis, has talked about that, too. He did it in Newark, where he was the police chief before, and he's done it in Minneapolis, too.

19:54So I think that there is a lot of ground to be gained by sounding like you are not against immigration enforcement writ large and not allowing the right to cast abolish ICE as we don't care who's here. Right. Like hundreds of thousands of people streamed across the border on a monthly basis for a couple of years there. And we don't really care who they are because these tragedies happened. You have to care about both. Yeah, so I received a email or a message from someone from the White House board of czar, Tom Holman's office, saying that the people in the office listen to his pod. So I'm just going to ask if they pass along a message that if he removes ICE from Minnesota, I'll give him$51 ,000.

20:40And that's a serious offer. Just an extra thousand than the Kava bag? Well, you know, he's done less for 50. So 51K, czar Holman. And yeah, I don't, I think the Democrats again are demonstrating this restrict, restraint bullshit. Like they need specific realistic demands where they can point to a victory. I don't even know what that means, restrict and restraint. What does that mean? So again, we're figuring out a way through what I feel is incredibly weak leadership to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here. if you try and read the tea leaves, you have said that you believe that Secretary Noem will be removed, that Holman's moving in.

21:24They haven't replaced Bovino. They just asked him to maybe kind of stop getting from him. There are conflicting reports, though. I think that he will be forced into retirement, which one of the reports that I saw said, you know, that that was coming quickly and it was already on the schedule, could be moving up. saw another report that he doesn't have access to his social media accounts anymore because he did such irreparable damage while tweeting away. So I don't think Bovino is going to be a figure that we are going to be seeing a lot of. So you think his days are numbered? That would be my expectation.

21:59That would be what would be smart for the administration. And I believe that's what Tom Holman wants. And Tom Homan has been fighting against the Stephen Miller, Christine Oan, Corey Lewandowski, Greg Bovino wing of the government for months now. And it has been widely reported that they have been trying to sideline him. And Tom Homan, you know, his approach is even too harsh for me. But Tom Homan has served both Democratic and Republican presidents in the past and has said over and over in interviews, like went on The Daily and did a great interview where he talks about his focus on getting hardened criminals out of this country.

22:37And I think that that would be a good sign for us if Trump is really ready to hand over the reins. I still worry about Stephen Miller because I worry about Stephen Miller all the time. But we are in much better hands if it's Holman. And I'm sure he—there's no love lost there with Kristi Noem. And I'm sure he would be just fine seeing her go. That's where we are. We're hoping for Holman. Hoping for Holman. So there are cracks, meaning—I mean, real fissures beginning to emerge and form here. A New York Times-Siena University poll from this month said 61 percent of voters believe that ICE tactics had gone too far.

23:10My question is who had the 39 percent? But anyways, many Republicans have also expressed concern and have called for an investigation. Senators Murkowski, Cassidy, and Tillis have all asked for investigations. Even Representative James Comer of Kentucky, who has been a staunch ally of the president, suggested on Fox News' Sunday morning Futures that Mr. Trump should consider removing ICE agents from Minneapolis and sending them elsewhere. Trump's overall approval rating has slid to 38 percent, according to the latest Reuters' Ipsos poll, matching the lowest mark of his second term. And there are now 140 co-sponsors on a bill to impeach Christine Ome.

23:49So it does appear as if these cracks are turning into pretty broad sinkholes, if you will. All right, with that, let's take a quick break. Stay with us.

24:23See you next time. in their Shop Apotheker app. Megan Rapinoe here. This week on A Touch More, Trinity Rodman is officially staying with the Washington spirit in the NWSL as the first player to benefit from the NWSL's new high-impact player rule, aka the Rodman rule. What does this mean for the rest of the league? Also, in light of the potential Caitlin Clark-Page-Becker's rivalry on the horizon, we want to talk about rivalries in general, how they're formed and what they mean. Plus, Deanna Flores, flag football's biggest advocate and Mexico star player, joins the show to tell us why the future is flag football.

25:07Check out the latest episode of A Touch More wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.

25:16Welcome back. The killing of Alex Freddie has blown open a glaring contradiction at the heart of Republican policies and beliefs, specifically something central to the Republican Party, and that is gun rights. For decades, the GOP has argued that the Second Amendment exists to protect citizens from an overreaching federal government. Let's say that again. The Second Amendment exists to protect citizens from an overreaching federal government. Yet now, Trump officials are arguing that a man lawfully carrying a gun somehow forfeited that right and deserved lethal force. As even the NRA and gun rights groups push back, the question isn't whether Preddy was exercising a legal right.

26:01It's why that right suddenly seems to disappear when federal agents pull the trigger. Jess, how does the GOP square its longstanding warnings about tyrannical government with defending federal agents who kill a citizen for lawfully carrying a firearm? I think some of them are just trying to bury their head in the sand. And you're seeing with many others, with the majority of them in how they're responding to this, that they have loved their gun longer than they have loved Donald Trump. And that this is the one amendment that they are not willing to play his little games with. And I think that it, in particular, hit the gun rights community hard to see an administration official, the first assistant U.S.